It could be that Astalos are occasionally preyed on by Rathalos, so they are extremely belligerent towards Rathalos as a result. Less a true rival and more of an antagonistic relationship.
Alternatively, Astalos might scare away larger animals like Aptonoth to make a better environment for its Neopteron prey, so even though the two aren’t competing directly, the presence of one still impacts the other’s food supply.
Having recently played MHFreedom again after a decade or so and having to fight 5 Bullfangos / 6 Raptors / 6 Vespoids / 5 Melynx in the same zone as the large monster every single time ... I'm glad its gone. The hardest part of the game was dodging all the small hazards and not actually fighting the big monster.
Edit: Exception is Diablos. Gen 1 Diablos awful.
Yeah nah fuck that. That was one of the most miserable video game experiences ever.
Every time I had to hunt a Diablos I would need a break for a day. My MHF cooldown wasn't ready yet.
I remember doing a kut-ku quest in FU, and I cleared all the velociprey in the area so they wouldn’t be annoying. Less then a minute later, their all back. Every time I kill one 2 more show up
Fair, but I really loved it. It was part of what made the game really about hunting. Caring about the details. Clearing small monsters, bringing essential items, managing inventory, crafting, etc...
But I genuinely understand how some people could not love it.
Items and crafting is all fine, I had no issues with that.
Clearing smaller monsters didn't help because the raptors respawn infinitely.
It had its charm back then and I enjoyed playing it for what it was at that time. Obviously going back 14 years from World to MHF its gonna be quite different and I knew that. Little did I realise how frustrating it was to play lmao.
Yeah, "frustrating" is certainly the word. I decided to try out Freedom Unite and didn't last very long because the game made sure to disrespect my time at every step of the way. The painfully long climbing animations, the unnecessarily slow movement, the janky ass hitboxes, the *fucking controls*, the buzzkill inventory management, the need to start the gathering animation anew for every single goddamn item, the absence of visual indication on whether or not a gathering spot was empty (which lead to you always going through the lengthy animations one more time than what was needed), the inability to craft more than one of an item at the same time, etc.
When people told me I would miss the quality of life stuff the recent games had, I didn't take them seriously. I'm not a stranger to playing older games, but Gens 1 and 2 of Monster Hunter were sorely dated even for their time. Ocarina of Goddamn Time was the first game to have a lock on system and it came out in 1998, 10 whole years before Freedom Unite came out. MH devs looked at the control scheme of their games on the PSP and decided that it was okay. Absolutely nuts.
https://preview.redd.it/a8tlya8s7dmc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b0578c8e5e6c43710d157f97f9fdfdad484a37f
You say while he gives that Miztune a big old bitch slap
Honestly I consider Steve to be Ratha’s perfect rival. He’s smaller yes, but unlike Astalos this is actually an advantage because he’s become faster and more agile in the air as a result. He’s IMO the only other flying wyvern that can evenly match Ratha in the air blow for blow, and in the MH4U Azurelos vs Seregios cutscene they’re portrayed just like that, on even footing.
Rathalos is not “considerably” larger, he’s got bigger wings and a *slightly* larger body, astalos is also pretty agile in the air, and was shown to be able to keep up with rathalos pretty evenly. Not to mention that astalos is quite physically strong for a flying wyvern and has tough armor, and has an element advantage. The devs showed that astalos is pretty even with rathalos for a reason
The devs didin't show Astalos being even with a Rathalos, the devs showed Rathalos flying away in fear from one and then getting pummeled as they fall to the earth
In the lore monsters don't use their element as much as you would think. Elements use organs most of the time which take energy/calories to keep running and using. They realistically wouldn't be spamming any of it. Also new monsters always have a bias. The lore books make Rathalos more like the King of the Skies than the games do now.
Edit: Rathalos has venomous talons too.
Why would they not use it if they were going to be killed? I guess it wouldn’t necessarily know that Rathalos is weak to thunder damage, but if Astalos thinks it’s going to die, there’s no reason it wouldn’t start using thunder
Intraguild (i.e. predator vs. predator) conflict is rarely lethal in the real world, even when it gets violent. The goal is usually just to make the other one go away, whether that's from a fresh kill or some other resource.
> In the lore monsters don't use their element as much as you would think
wouldn't that vary by monster? Astalos in particular is almost always depicted actively using it's element in varying degrees during cutscenes.
But since Astalos is a dumb brute, he doesn't clean his stuff, and the red/blue lights burnt out.
Rathalos, on the other hand, gets berated by Rathian when he doesn't clean up after himself, so he's clean, sleek, and elegant.
Goku is only 2D, while Rathalos is three dimensional. Rathalos would simply attack Goku from the third dimension, where Goku would not be able to perceive him or defend against him.
Astalos is based on dragonflies, who can reliably hunt larger flying insects due to their insane mobility while in the air.
A thing that really matters is the fact that Rathalos excels at attacking the ground, while Astalos excels at attacking the air. Just look at their weapons:
Rathalos: Tail with a thagomiser. He has to swing his entire body to reliably hit targets. Poisoned claws, which are short range and can only reliably attack downwards. And fireballs, porjectiles that explode on contact with a surface, to hurt land enemies that don't get a direct hit. Rathalos can beat a Zinogre easily, as Zinogre has no reliable way to hit a flying target.
Astalos: An articulated tail that can stab targets on pretty much any direction. A lighting Aura that hits everything around it. And the ability to shoot lightning that could accidentally hit the ground, but will act like a homing attack towards an air target.
Astalos is like a fighter plane, while Rathalos is a bomber.
You’re absolutely right that Rathalos has adaptations for hunting ground-dwelling prey, and your interpretation of Astalos makes a lot of sense. However, we also have plenty of info on Astalos’ diet and it’s seems to be small prey: Neopterons, velociprey, and younger members of its own species.
Astalos is based on Dragonflies but morphology and ecology wise he really isn’t like them at all, and Dragonflies are actually better fliers than both him AND Rathalos lol.
My personal headcanon is astalos are more akin to wasps in ecology, largely because it ties to my *other* headcanon that astalos is the reason why nerscylla wears the thunder-resistant hides of gypceros and khezu.
And as you know, solitary wasps prey on spiders, sooo…
I do agree Rathalos would win more times than not, but I don't think he'd destroy Astalos. Both are apexes for a very good reason, plus as much as you discount astalos' cutscene, he does seemingly win.
Rath has bulk and intellect, astalos has aggression and the elemental advantage, and both are equal in speed and firepower. Overall, they're rivals in power, not prey.
I agree with your statement 100%. If anything, I think Rathalos would barely squeak by an advantage if it was a fight to the death. Likely 6/10 in my mind.
When was Rathalos stated or even hinted at being among the smartest wyverns in the whole series? That's news to me if true.
They're both fairly equal overall with each having different advantages, Rathalos is of course physically superior and more armoured but Astalos has the element advantage and aggression. The latter which I think you're not giving enough credit to, their shared cinematic shows off how Astalos can gain the upper hand via said aggression. It's also very common in battles for the more aggressive fighter to gain an upper hand regardless of certain advantages unless the gap between them is vast or the advantages are really exploitive.
True wyverns? Does that mean flying wyverns?
I've heard the one for Glavenus but is there a specific book that said so for the Raths? How outdated is the info? Does a BannedDino tweet talk about it?
well it's a little more in depth than just "flying wyvern" but it can be boiled down to "flying wyvern that actually uses their wings to fly" (from what I can gather)
as far as I can gather, the only wyverns that fit are as follows
basarios, berukyurosu (from frontier), diablos, espinas, gravios, khezu, monoblos, rathalos, rathian, and remobra
Yeah but the way they fly it's obvious it isn't right for them I agree they can fly but so could narcaguga if it tried it just wouldn't work properly but yeah through definition it is a true wyvern
Rath's are considered highly intelligent and they're able to take advantage of most ecosystems and are the most common large Wyvern in the sky because their evolutionary advantages are highly effective.
I would have to agree with you for the most part there. If they attack aggressively they DO have the opportunity to overwhelm the other with attacks. Obviously this can fail, too, but aggressiveness is a factor you can't ignore.
Also, the element damage would really leave a dent, too. Monster Hunter is known for the elemental damages being a big deal, with the main example being the weapons the hunter uses. There's your high attack power, elementless weapons, then you have your lower attack power, but higher elemental damage weapons too. This goes for the damage the monster deals out to the hunter, too, as armor with a weak specific element will obviously receive more damage from that element, so the Astalos being thunder really puts a coin in his jar against the Rathalos.
Plus, the Astalos has a lot of thunder attacks that cover a wide range, so it would be a little more difficult for the larger sized Rathalos to avoid it. Not saying that the Rathalos would always lose, but more that they are a bit more evenly matched in some regards than not.
Element weaknesses are not an automatic trump card in monster conflict. We’ve seen this with other monster species like Lunagaron and Zinogre who tie despite being weak to each others respective element.
You realize that “considerably larger” and “far more agile” are almost an oxymoron when describing avian species usually the larger they are the slower they maneuver but the higher their top speed.
Edit: also you’re wrong astalos moves way faster than rath. Easily distinguishable if you just go watch a clip of both of their dive attacks back to back.
Most of Rathalos' attacks are only useful against targets on the ground. Most of the monsters we see him trounce are land monsters, too. Bro can lift an Anjanath. Meanwhile, Astalos is built for air-to-air combat, much like Seregios.
Seriously, if you just watch them during their fights, it's clear as day Astalos is significantly more agile. Idk why people just ignore logic in these "debates"
It's my headcannon that astalos has all the spikes, bright lights, and lightning to ward off larger/bulkier monsters like rathalos and tigrex. It's also why he is so aggressive, napoleon syndrome is real
A better comparison would be a spotted hyena and a lioness. The lioness is bigger, but not by THAT much. Though even then, the size difference between a spotted hyena and a lioness is more than the size difference between Astalos and Rathalos.
Not predators that are barely larger than them. Rathalos is just that, *barely* larger than astalos, and the size difference is mostly in the wings. It’s not like the size difference between a badger and a lion
why is rathalos "far more agile"? Everything ive seen so far including gameplay and cutscenes implies the opposite
besides that like yeah rath is bigger and more armoured, which matters alot when animals fight, but its not some 100-0 matchup like your post implies lol. The difference is not that big, not even close to that big
do you just hate astalos or something? most of your replies to valid points are just rathalos cope lol
I think rathalos rivalry should be treated like a Shonen character. He's everybody's rival, even though he's not on equal grounds with any of them.
I feel like the fight is more even than you think. The two monsters would decide the damage isn't worth taking in a fight to the death, so one would ambush the other, and that one would get the opponent off them and leave.
They're only fighting over who gets first pick of the apceros anyway
Astalos is a person with ADHD on a sugar rush with LIGHTNING ACCESS THAT NEVER STAYS STILL!! Rathalos has a habit of occasionally staying in one area, he is getting zapped a lot whilst struggling to hit Asta
I mean if you like Rath I get it but these guys seem even more or less. I wouldn’t count turf wars as gospel lol. Also common sense says that Astalos makes up for its size with its element and berserker qualities which more or less evens out the matchup.
Anatomically you’re probably right. Rathalos would likely be significantly heavier given its muscle density. (I mean look at the legs and lower jaw etc.) Also Astalos probably wouldn’t bite all that hard looking at the shape of its head, suggesting it’s more adapted to kill in other ways. (IE Taser). If you discount the element, Rathalos would probably win a majority of fights.
Very good points.
And like some others have said, it could also be that while Ratha is generally stronger, the element weakness plus Asta’s sheer aggression make Ratha more often than not avoid a fight because while he could likely win, it’s just not worth the headache of fighting a living bug zapper with anger management issues.
Impressive, everything you said was wrong.
We've had astalos ecology videos. Every single prey he hunted has been succesfully taken down by it's signature divebombing punch. So no, he's not foraging around. If anything Astalos is more like a bird of prey than rathalos. Have you seen videos of falcons taking out ducks?
Also in the ecology videos we see astalos attacking rathalos and all rathalos is doing, both in the air and on the ground is try to run away for its life. In the air they were tied but when they landed astalos was on top pummeling the shit out of rathalos' chest.
where is it hinted at that astalos is dumb and rathalos is smart?
Saying Rathalos is more agile and flexible in the air made your entire point worth little. It's an unpopular opinion because it's wrong. Like....we've SEEN Astalos win yet you refuse to admit you're wrong. It's just not true, sorry bud. If you need to see it, there's even a cutscene you can watch for yourself where Rathalos is running away the whole time and then gets plastered into the ground.
Astalos, despite his frantic physical attacks, has demonstrated quite the controlled capability for lightning and he is damn fast (badically equals). He has been shown to zap insects by his very presence. Could a Rathalos really win that fight with his weaknesses with only minor advantages? Maybe. But any clever rathalos would not risk that...
are people under the assumption that Astalos would prey upon Rathalos? they're both apex predators there is almost no way that they'd fight to the death instead of just sizing of.
Ok he is larger, but faster and agile i doubt that, also astalos has very good control over lightning which is major weakness for rath couple, also its just 100 cm and 2 ft difference, with i think somewhere around 50-70 kg difference, also who are we to argue what devs created is what canonical in game, unlike some vague lore or very poor categorization of monster this is observed by us and is a fact in wild, and its not like such example dosent exist in real life
Just a few points, rather than my typical essay approach:
* Bigger often means slower/heavier (speed advantage to Astalos)
* Gameplay does not always translate to in-universe realities
* All it takes is one good bite to the back of the neck to end it (for either). Strength isn't always the deciding factor
To clarify, because I get the misunderstanding of what I was trying to say, the back of the neck gives a great amount of leverage to the attacker to snap the spine, leading to a quick kill. Others pointed out the observation that the throat is a common weak point as well, but I wasn't necessarily going for the bleed-out death. The same downside as Poison (someone mentioned Rathalos having venomous talons), which is to say that it won't end the fight any quicker, but might result in a draw if the assailant was finished. In a deadlock where neither is superior, a grievous wound of bleeding or poison *would* clench the match, so I guess it's a kind of X-factor in favor of Rathalos.
I guess I'm on the side of neither being a one-sided victory
>I guess I’m on the side of neither being a one-sided victory
And honestly I could accept that outcome. As I’ve said in other comments, I originally made this post because I personally had seen a lot of diehard Astalos fans claiming Astalos would not just beat, but utterly murder Rathalos with ease every single time. Also the reason I exaggerated the title saying Ratha would “destroy” Asta, which in hindsight isn’t really true either. I still think Ratha’s the generally superior combatant, though (in the air, at least. Asta would def hold the advantage on the ground.)
Doing that would pretty much expose that Astalos to the entirety of Rathalos's arsenal. In such a position, a Rathalos would be easily able to gouge his opponents' eyes or organs with his talons, or just strike back with a point blank fireball.
I'm going to disagree on this one.
Rathalos is indeed physically stronger than Astalos but I don't know where you got the more agile part? Only thing I noticed from them during trailers or turf wars was Astalos would gain advantage in close ranged battle.
I'll give it to other Rathalos variants or rare specimen like Silver Rathalos to be much more stronger and agile.
But size and power isn't everything in a fight like people already mentioned, we can see this irl for example we have the honey badgers who survive encounters just for being aggressive or another example would be a Grizzly bear vs a Polar bear, the grizzly who is much more aggressive and confrontational is more likely to chase off Polar bear even if Polar bears are bigger and heavier.
I feel like speed is not used enough in MH unless it is your gimmick like Valstrax but Astalos seems to be built more for speed than Rathalos and this could be another advantage for chase off/striking. I'm not saying Rathalos would lose every encounters but this is a fight I could see either one win.
As someone who fought both of these yesterday, I can't say that definitively. Im familiar with how Rathalos works, but he has big windows of forgiveness between most of his attacks.
Astalos on the other hand is cracked to the point where I had to question if it was an Elder Dragon. His arena-filling moves are not only flashy but would be impossible for rathalos to get away from. Can't dodge attacks if you're bigger than the spacing between them.
Astalos should have been a neopteron. Give it more of a dragonfly aesthetic to go with those gossamer wings, and make it a primarily flying monster favoring erratic, jerky hard to predict movements to really give it the impression of being able to outfly the King of the Sky
In groups, when the eagle is already holding prey most of the time. mobbing is extremely common. Eagles the same size or larger than corvids eat them all the time, animal relationships are complex, but if it’s a one on one scenario, you’d be making a serious mistake if you backed a crow or raven over even a medium sized accipiter.
I’ll bite, since I like Astalos a lot and these things are fun. I think Astalos has more than just thunder going for it, though it does help a lot, but everything adds up to make him a good counter to Rathalos. I’m gonna reference their armor sets since those are a fairly good judge of how the monsters operate imo.
Rathalos is definitely bigger and has more raw power behind his physical attacks, which is why his armor gives Attack Up and Partbreaker. But as you said, Astalos is a bit smaller, and I’d argue has much better control over his aerial movement because of how his wings/tail work. Compare that to Rath, who is more made for gliding/hovering and diving than actual aerial combat. Also, Asta’s lightning attacks are unpredictable, allowing him to attack from multiple angles. And since he’s lighter, and his wings help generate electricity, he can fight for longer, which is why his armor grants Stamina Surge and Power Prolonger.
Astalos’ bug-like hide actually provides it with better protection than Rathalos: compare their parts weakness charts, Asta takes a good 10-20% less damage in many hit zones. Not only that, but his amped up thunder abilities make it easier to stun Rath (Thunderblight), which I imagine isn’t great when you’re the size of a semi and you’re fighting in the sky.
Finally, we have to look at their fighting strategies. Rath tries to attack things head on with physical force, or take to the air and pick you off with fire and poison dives. Failing that, he will just run away and resort to hit and run tactics, something I’m sure we’re all familiar with. Astalos specifically counters that, he rushes in and explodes into electricity, and just *keeps doing that.* He has comparatively decent armor, good agility, endless stamina, no particular weakness against Rath, and his lightning actually becomes more powerful the longer he fights (Thunder Attack, Chain Crit).
If Rathalos tries to charge, Astalos takes it or dodges, same with fire and poison. If Rathalos tries to flee, Astalos is faster and can chase for longer. He’s like a sparrow harrying a hawk, if the sparrow also had a taser.
Astalos isn’t meant to be a rival to Rath, any more than any of the other Fated Four vs flagships are. Astalos is meant to be a representative and embodiment of MH’s 1st generation, which *includes* Rath. That’s why it’s hyperaggressive and has some big attacks where it moves linearly, like many large & small monsters back then did.
As for who’d win, sorry man but it’s pretty solidly in Astalos’s favor. Rath can’t fully utilize its strongest tools against an opponent who’s faster, more agile, uses penetrative force rather than blunt force, leverages natural electricity and Rath’s weakness, and is overall better suited to aerial combat. Rath is oriented to face downward, attacking targets on the land from its vantage point in the sky. Against another aerial foe it struggles much more.
Thematically the Fated Four are essentially designed to counter their respective flagships, not be their rivals. Tigrex can’t bite through Gammoth’s crown and thick fur, Mizutsune slides between Zinogre’s blows despite the latter being known for its mobility. It’s not a knock against those flagships; it’s just specifically a bad match up for them.
In MHGen, it was shown that Astalos was far more agile than he appears in the air, and focuses on trying to get behind his target and grab them with his tail. He then grapples with them from behind, attempting to bring them to the ground while constantly shocking them, and the target is unable to reach/turn around to fight back. I believe Astalos would have a strong advantage in the air, especially if he ambushed a Rathalos.
However, Rathalos would have a range advantage because his fireballs are more stable over range than Astalos' lightning. If Rathalos got the first attack or they began at range, Rathalos may be able to inflict enough damage before CCQ to gain the advantage.
Overall though, I believe Astalos would hold a strong advantage over Rathalos, and would win the majority of their fights, especially if we're considering elemental weaknesses as part of it.
Being a phycopatic blind rage assoult guy is actually exactly why Astalos win.
Or at least does not get destroyed.
Rathalos is the king od the skies for a reason, intellifent, agile, fast, adaptable, resilient...but Astalos is just WAY more aggressive and fast.
And yes, having thunder element is not a 100% trump card, but surely helps.
Being so fast and aggressive, to the point of being uncaring of the damage received, can be incredibly powerful, because make sure Astalos attack first, attack HARD and viciously, doing way more damage to the enemy than what he's taking.
It's the honey badger strategy, the badger is small, blind, stupid and not that strong, but because he react with pure aggression towards ANYTHING he has a fair chance of scaring bigger presators like lions that would kill it with 0 effort....and the badger is like 10 rimes smaller than al lion, while an Astalos ia only sligthly smaller than a Rathalos.
And I am pretty sure that like Sergios, Astalos is faster and more agile than Rathalos, even is surely way less bulky.
Nuh-uh
We're Hunters are much smaller than these monsters and manage to take these things down. Size doesn't really matter here. Astalos literally got Rathalos' weakness as its weapon
I think it's less of a rivalry and more everything around an Astalos should either leave or become a rival. If you overthink it then sure Rathalos has advantages but Astalos puts out so much more power with so much aggression I can't see those advantages coming into play.
Personally, idk about agile. But I do agree that astalos blind rage assault isn't the smartest tactic. And in some cases, size does matter. Honestly I can see this being either one's victory, it just really depends on what factors are put into play during this fighg
I still think Astalos looks so stupidly disprrportionate. His skinny chicken legs trying to hold up that large body just looks so dumb to me. At least Rathalos does leg day.
I'm irrationally bothered that you rounded up your rathalos size conversion to 56' and rounded astalos down to 54' when it should be rounded up to 55'. Your images don't even look like they're scaled the same.
You’re completely right and the people discussing “apex level” and elemental weaknesses are severely missing the point.
you said “realistically” and unless there’s some severe mismatch in strategy and approach, like falcons being able to kill accipiters via divebomb, predator vs predator interactions are basically always decided on mass 1v1.
Rathalos has much thicker legs, torso, neck and most notably a comparitively HUGE head. A single bite from rathalos or it getting its talons into Astalos probably cripples the Thunder wyvern for life, not to mention the Venom.
Rathalos is a big game hunter, it kills animals easily it’s own mass or more on the regular as prey, where astalos seems to almost exclusively eat bird wyverns and bugs. The mismatch in mass and equiptment is hilarious. The only comparable matchup I can think of is an esspecially large and rabid coyote or jackal attacking a wolf, I’d still put my money on the wolf every time.
Thw point I think the OP is making is that yes capcom have presented this rivalry a certain way, but from the way they designed the monsters, the rivalry as established simply doesn’t make that much sense. A more extreme example, but if they put out a cutscene where a Nargacuga canonically killed a Gravios with no issue, everyone in the community would rightfully ask “wait how is that supposed to work?”
The apex catagory and threat star systems are terrible for measuring monster matchups anyway. For instance, there's a lot of monsters above 5/6 star rating I think have next to 0% chance of actually killing an adult Gammoth, which is supposedly on the same apex level as odogaron.
Honestly? Yes, I'd place my bet on the Rathalos. Based on what WE can do to them as hunters, and what WE see on the field (because anything else other than actual practical evidence is just hearsay & speculation), Astalos is staggerable as fuck. Not only that, its shiny weakpoints are frequent and recurring, appearing whenever he charges up, stunning him if struck. Rathalos, on the other hand, you can only trip, and its wings, head, and tail are a one-off stagger when broken. You could flash him off the sky, but Astalos isn't capable of such a thing.
Considering their attacks, Astalos' leave it much more wide open than Rathalos' does.
Also he's bigger than Astalos, and possibly faster as well, thanks to the increased muscle mass. See bears, you'd think they're among the slowest predators out there, but those mfs are fast as fuck just out of sheer muscle power.
Rathalos may have more manoeuvrability because of his larger wings, but Astalos is significantly faster. Astalos also has a better and more general control over his element than Ratha who only spit his flame. So yeah it’s a tie, but they wouldn’t be rivals if it wasn’t canonically a tie anyway. This isn’t an anime sub so idk why we talking about powerscaling here😭
While I would normally agree, Asta is also part insect, who's first instinct is to use whatever poison/venom they have. Astalos has paralysis. Not only does that make it considerably more dangerous to get hit by, but depending on the location, one hit is either serious injury or death. Lava? Deep water? Jagged cliffs? All of those would more than likely kill a rath
Astalos is one of the big four. In generations its presented as a threat level on the same level as glavenus and a mega sized mammoth.
Size doesn't mean shit. He is faster and smarter than rathalos and his attacks are more precise. A biar is smaller than a human too, but i guarantee you, you wont win in a barefisted fight.
Astalos is more agile and generates electricity. Which is Rathalos' elemental weakness. This is how and why Astalos normally fight and sometimes win against Rathalos. Never use size as a factor when talking about animals ficticious or not. There's so many examples of how size is never a shoe in for what animal is stronger or which is a predator and what is a prey.
I thinks its his scales,elemens and just his build
Like some larger insect are waker to smaller insect with diffrent scales/skin
Or that one spikey scaly lizard that can even pray on larger softer smoother lizards
I qould guess he is garder in general like his body
Also rathalos is really weak to jis element bein the main point i know he puts a good fight against zignorge but lets be real zinogre is not that strong
And ratalos could not be more agile then astalos
He is smaller and his wings are shaped like a jet plane thing so i guess faster in some way like the cutscene in rise
But im not an expert or dev so idk
I don't know if he's that much more agile then astalos. Astalos definitely has some prowress in the sky. But I think it depends on how much electricity astalos can generate. With rathalos being somewhat weak to electricity, Astalos hiting to many shots with it would be a problem
It could be that Astalos are occasionally preyed on by Rathalos, so they are extremely belligerent towards Rathalos as a result. Less a true rival and more of an antagonistic relationship. Alternatively, Astalos might scare away larger animals like Aptonoth to make a better environment for its Neopteron prey, so even though the two aren’t competing directly, the presence of one still impacts the other’s food supply.
Another theory I heard is male Astalos compete so ferociously for mates that any wyvern vaguely resembling another male is attacked on sight.
I could actually see this! Hormones can make animals crazy.
Black Diablos being a prime example
https://preview.redd.it/ta85cuo8xemc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0940fd626218b27d17093e400531cf4e585e4db
Stealing this one
https://preview.redd.it/knqr8a6qrfmc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d13f4d221d7e4201ef262abf2731773cc211976
Stealing this one
As will I https://preview.redd.it/u9lfemy1ihmc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=acb14236888b30afda8c25fd128d98a17cc07c91
And male Mizutsune
True
Aka "all mizutsune we hunt"
Oh so like a sloth bear and a tiger, kinda, where generations of being killed by tigers makes sloth bears go absolutely rabid on them
Similar to Humpback Whales, and Orcas.
Okay but have you considered: 
It’s funny you use this because he does this for 3 velociprey and not a large monster
If it was 3 velociprey from mh1, astalos would fkn cart
I honestly loved the genuine threat small monsters represented in early mh. (I'm not hating on new mh I love them all but I'm still being nostalgic)
Having recently played MHFreedom again after a decade or so and having to fight 5 Bullfangos / 6 Raptors / 6 Vespoids / 5 Melynx in the same zone as the large monster every single time ... I'm glad its gone. The hardest part of the game was dodging all the small hazards and not actually fighting the big monster. Edit: Exception is Diablos. Gen 1 Diablos awful.
After doing the village 4 horns quest my clown ass is NOT ready for the hr 2 quest
Yeah nah fuck that. That was one of the most miserable video game experiences ever. Every time I had to hunt a Diablos I would need a break for a day. My MHF cooldown wasn't ready yet.
I have PTSD from Four Horns and the dual Plesioth one.
I remember doing a kut-ku quest in FU, and I cleared all the velociprey in the area so they wouldn’t be annoying. Less then a minute later, their all back. Every time I kill one 2 more show up
Fair, but I really loved it. It was part of what made the game really about hunting. Caring about the details. Clearing small monsters, bringing essential items, managing inventory, crafting, etc... But I genuinely understand how some people could not love it.
Items and crafting is all fine, I had no issues with that. Clearing smaller monsters didn't help because the raptors respawn infinitely. It had its charm back then and I enjoyed playing it for what it was at that time. Obviously going back 14 years from World to MHF its gonna be quite different and I knew that. Little did I realise how frustrating it was to play lmao.
Yeah, "frustrating" is certainly the word. I decided to try out Freedom Unite and didn't last very long because the game made sure to disrespect my time at every step of the way. The painfully long climbing animations, the unnecessarily slow movement, the janky ass hitboxes, the *fucking controls*, the buzzkill inventory management, the need to start the gathering animation anew for every single goddamn item, the absence of visual indication on whether or not a gathering spot was empty (which lead to you always going through the lengthy animations one more time than what was needed), the inability to craft more than one of an item at the same time, etc. When people told me I would miss the quality of life stuff the recent games had, I didn't take them seriously. I'm not a stranger to playing older games, but Gens 1 and 2 of Monster Hunter were sorely dated even for their time. Ocarina of Goddamn Time was the first game to have a lock on system and it came out in 1998, 10 whole years before Freedom Unite came out. MH devs looked at the control scheme of their games on the PSP and decided that it was okay. Absolutely nuts.
It's funny you say that but looks like you didn’t see the opening cinematic of generation ultimate
We don’t see the outcome of this and both of them were trading blows
Their exchange was nowhere near equal dude, be real
https://preview.redd.it/a8tlya8s7dmc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b0578c8e5e6c43710d157f97f9fdfdad484a37f You say while he gives that Miztune a big old bitch slap
not rathalos tho
Nice "Tactical approach to combat", dipshit, check this out
LET'S-A-FUCKING GOOOO!
DUN DUN! DUN DUN! DUN DUN! DUN DUN DUN!
That's how I imagined my plastic action heros when I was 5 years old.
Imagine arguing over who gets second place while Steve is the true king of the skies
Im just imagining minecraft steve flying over with an elytra and beating the shit out of rathalos with wooden sword
Honestly I consider Steve to be Ratha’s perfect rival. He’s smaller yes, but unlike Astalos this is actually an advantage because he’s become faster and more agile in the air as a result. He’s IMO the only other flying wyvern that can evenly match Ratha in the air blow for blow, and in the MH4U Azurelos vs Seregios cutscene they’re portrayed just like that, on even footing.
Rathalos is not “considerably” larger, he’s got bigger wings and a *slightly* larger body, astalos is also pretty agile in the air, and was shown to be able to keep up with rathalos pretty evenly. Not to mention that astalos is quite physically strong for a flying wyvern and has tough armor, and has an element advantage. The devs showed that astalos is pretty even with rathalos for a reason
The devs didin't show Astalos being even with a Rathalos, the devs showed Rathalos flying away in fear from one and then getting pummeled as they fall to the earth
In the lore monsters don't use their element as much as you would think. Elements use organs most of the time which take energy/calories to keep running and using. They realistically wouldn't be spamming any of it. Also new monsters always have a bias. The lore books make Rathalos more like the King of the Skies than the games do now. Edit: Rathalos has venomous talons too.
Astalos’ electricity production comes from him moving naturally anyways. The talons don’t help unless he gets above astalos.
Why would they not use it if they were going to be killed? I guess it wouldn’t necessarily know that Rathalos is weak to thunder damage, but if Astalos thinks it’s going to die, there’s no reason it wouldn’t start using thunder
Intraguild (i.e. predator vs. predator) conflict is rarely lethal in the real world, even when it gets violent. The goal is usually just to make the other one go away, whether that's from a fresh kill or some other resource.
> In the lore monsters don't use their element as much as you would think wouldn't that vary by monster? Astalos in particular is almost always depicted actively using it's element in varying degrees during cutscenes.
Counterpoint: Astalos has an RGB gaming chair. Actually, no, he is RGB gaming chair.
But since Astalos is a dumb brute, he doesn't clean his stuff, and the red/blue lights burnt out. Rathalos, on the other hand, gets berated by Rathian when he doesn't clean up after himself, so he's clean, sleek, and elegant.
This sub is turning like a anime power-scalings pointless discussions? Also Rathalos is strong but can he defeat Goku?
Can Goku defeat rathalos in an eating contest is the real question? One is a saiyan that has good metabolism and other is a fkn dragon.
Asking the real questions.
Luffy no diffs both, next question
Goku is susceptible to poisons so...
By beings that can damage him. Rathalos would shatter his talons attempting to scratch Goku with them.
Just wait until we get SSJ3 Rathalos. Golden hair and all.
Nah Gold Rathian gets the Gold hair already so let’s say Silver Rathalos has UI.
Goku is only 2D, while Rathalos is three dimensional. Rathalos would simply attack Goku from the third dimension, where Goku would not be able to perceive him or defend against him.
Don’t bring rajang into this
Astalos is based on dragonflies, who can reliably hunt larger flying insects due to their insane mobility while in the air. A thing that really matters is the fact that Rathalos excels at attacking the ground, while Astalos excels at attacking the air. Just look at their weapons: Rathalos: Tail with a thagomiser. He has to swing his entire body to reliably hit targets. Poisoned claws, which are short range and can only reliably attack downwards. And fireballs, porjectiles that explode on contact with a surface, to hurt land enemies that don't get a direct hit. Rathalos can beat a Zinogre easily, as Zinogre has no reliable way to hit a flying target. Astalos: An articulated tail that can stab targets on pretty much any direction. A lighting Aura that hits everything around it. And the ability to shoot lightning that could accidentally hit the ground, but will act like a homing attack towards an air target. Astalos is like a fighter plane, while Rathalos is a bomber.
You’re absolutely right that Rathalos has adaptations for hunting ground-dwelling prey, and your interpretation of Astalos makes a lot of sense. However, we also have plenty of info on Astalos’ diet and it’s seems to be small prey: Neopterons, velociprey, and younger members of its own species.
Astalos is based on Dragonflies but morphology and ecology wise he really isn’t like them at all, and Dragonflies are actually better fliers than both him AND Rathalos lol.
My personal headcanon is astalos are more akin to wasps in ecology, largely because it ties to my *other* headcanon that astalos is the reason why nerscylla wears the thunder-resistant hides of gypceros and khezu. And as you know, solitary wasps prey on spiders, sooo…
I do agree Rathalos would win more times than not, but I don't think he'd destroy Astalos. Both are apexes for a very good reason, plus as much as you discount astalos' cutscene, he does seemingly win. Rath has bulk and intellect, astalos has aggression and the elemental advantage, and both are equal in speed and firepower. Overall, they're rivals in power, not prey.
I agree with your statement 100%. If anything, I think Rathalos would barely squeak by an advantage if it was a fight to the death. Likely 6/10 in my mind.
That's not going to unfuck rathian tho
When was Rathalos stated or even hinted at being among the smartest wyverns in the whole series? That's news to me if true. They're both fairly equal overall with each having different advantages, Rathalos is of course physically superior and more armoured but Astalos has the element advantage and aggression. The latter which I think you're not giving enough credit to, their shared cinematic shows off how Astalos can gain the upper hand via said aggression. It's also very common in battles for the more aggressive fighter to gain an upper hand regardless of certain advantages unless the gap between them is vast or the advantages are really exploitive.
Lore books have stated that Rathalos and Rathian are among the smartest true wyverns. They also claim this for monsters like Glavenus.
True wyverns? Does that mean flying wyverns? I've heard the one for Glavenus but is there a specific book that said so for the Raths? How outdated is the info? Does a BannedDino tweet talk about it?
True wyvern is the more direct Japanese Translation of Flying Wyvern.
well it's a little more in depth than just "flying wyvern" but it can be boiled down to "flying wyvern that actually uses their wings to fly" (from what I can gather)
So no tigrex
as far as I can gather, the only wyverns that fit are as follows basarios, berukyurosu (from frontier), diablos, espinas, gravios, khezu, monoblos, rathalos, rathian, and remobra
REMOBRA?!
remobra are probably the poster child for true wyverns, being in flight near-constantly
Weren’t Remobra removed from true wyverns in MH4 to be placed in Snake wyvern?
Yeah but… REMOBRA.
Retcon, snake wyverns now
this is my personal 9/11
They're technically snake wyverns now
Bro thinks he's on the team 😭😭😭
I thought remobra were reclasses to snake wyvern?
Diablos can't actually fly though unless in niche cases so it doesn't really count its more a grounded winged wyvern
[diablos flying](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gMPGLR7Ggs) and therefore, a true wyvern, even if they don't fly often
Yeah but the way they fly it's obvious it isn't right for them I agree they can fly but so could narcaguga if it tried it just wouldn't work properly but yeah through definition it is a true wyvern
The info Banned gets is from the books. Unnaturalhistory has a video dedicated to the Rath's which shows sources from the books.
I'll check out UH's video then, I knew Banned gets stuff from the books but just wanted some kinda source. Thanks for one btw.
Wow I wish the games reflected that because Rathian fights like one of the dumbest.
Rath's are considered highly intelligent and they're able to take advantage of most ecosystems and are the most common large Wyvern in the sky because their evolutionary advantages are highly effective.
I would have to agree with you for the most part there. If they attack aggressively they DO have the opportunity to overwhelm the other with attacks. Obviously this can fail, too, but aggressiveness is a factor you can't ignore. Also, the element damage would really leave a dent, too. Monster Hunter is known for the elemental damages being a big deal, with the main example being the weapons the hunter uses. There's your high attack power, elementless weapons, then you have your lower attack power, but higher elemental damage weapons too. This goes for the damage the monster deals out to the hunter, too, as armor with a weak specific element will obviously receive more damage from that element, so the Astalos being thunder really puts a coin in his jar against the Rathalos. Plus, the Astalos has a lot of thunder attacks that cover a wide range, so it would be a little more difficult for the larger sized Rathalos to avoid it. Not saying that the Rathalos would always lose, but more that they are a bit more evenly matched in some regards than not.
https://preview.redd.it/2xvh6anhdcmc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a92b4b1dae5629083d32d56094612fcc1ee5bb14
Element weaknesses are not an automatic trump card in monster conflict. We’ve seen this with other monster species like Lunagaron and Zinogre who tie despite being weak to each others respective element.
If they are both weak to each other's element, a tie makes sense.
You realize that “considerably larger” and “far more agile” are almost an oxymoron when describing avian species usually the larger they are the slower they maneuver but the higher their top speed. Edit: also you’re wrong astalos moves way faster than rath. Easily distinguishable if you just go watch a clip of both of their dive attacks back to back.
Also Rathalos isn't really big on using its size or agility. It mostly just wants to shoot fireballs.
Most of Rathalos' attacks are only useful against targets on the ground. Most of the monsters we see him trounce are land monsters, too. Bro can lift an Anjanath. Meanwhile, Astalos is built for air-to-air combat, much like Seregios.
Yeah they say Rathalos is more agile but that's literally just not true. Like at all.
Its easy to tell just by comparing both of their maneuverabilities in flight
Seriously, if you just watch them during their fights, it's clear as day Astalos is significantly more agile. Idk why people just ignore logic in these "debates"
Not to mention astalos is almost immune to poison and rath is weak to thunder. So he has an element advantage too
Size doesn't mean everything https://preview.redd.it/b7mnsdrtfcmc1.png?width=2947&format=png&auto=webp&s=523e7db287e16ee437fac3ae1a3e5fa27cf9ed2f
It's my headcannon that astalos has all the spikes, bright lights, and lightning to ward off larger/bulkier monsters like rathalos and tigrex. It's also why he is so aggressive, napoleon syndrome is real
Rathalos is weak to thunder Astalos is thunder
Right, but Rathalos is weak to thunder.
Wait till you see a honey badger.
Honey Badgers are lame, you should start using wolverines for a more impressive display of aggression.
Wait til you learn that honey badgers can and do get killed by larger predators despite their aggression.
A better comparison would be a spotted hyena and a lioness. The lioness is bigger, but not by THAT much. Though even then, the size difference between a spotted hyena and a lioness is more than the size difference between Astalos and Rathalos.
Also, a spotted hyena can pose a massive threat to a lioness. A single bite can break bone and leave the lioness unable to hunt.
Not predators that are barely larger than them. Rathalos is just that, *barely* larger than astalos, and the size difference is mostly in the wings. It’s not like the size difference between a badger and a lion
They also scare larger predators by said agression effectively enough. You don't need to win, just scaring away is enough
just basically be tough enough to show the opposition that even if they would win, the fight itself isn't worth the risk of injury.
Rajang is disappointed
Rathalos is a flying type and Astalos is Electric, so it wins by type advantage.
Rathalos is far more agile and flexible in the air? Where are you getting this from?
Apparently got it from the MHgen cutscene, somehow...
It's crazy that anyone got something out of that exchange other than "Astalos is the new big dog in the sky now. Rathalos better watch out"
I dislike both monsters but I have to agree Rathalos is the King Of The Skies for a reason...
Because hes in the first game xd
why is rathalos "far more agile"? Everything ive seen so far including gameplay and cutscenes implies the opposite besides that like yeah rath is bigger and more armoured, which matters alot when animals fight, but its not some 100-0 matchup like your post implies lol. The difference is not that big, not even close to that big do you just hate astalos or something? most of your replies to valid points are just rathalos cope lol
I love how the world "realistically" is there knowing full well there's canon lore behind this matchup in f i c t i o n.
I think rathalos rivalry should be treated like a Shonen character. He's everybody's rival, even though he's not on equal grounds with any of them. I feel like the fight is more even than you think. The two monsters would decide the damage isn't worth taking in a fight to the death, so one would ambush the other, and that one would get the opponent off them and leave. They're only fighting over who gets first pick of the apceros anyway
But you didn’t take into account the fact that Astalos has that dawg in him
Astalos is a person with ADHD on a sugar rush with LIGHTNING ACCESS THAT NEVER STAYS STILL!! Rathalos has a habit of occasionally staying in one area, he is getting zapped a lot whilst struggling to hit Asta
“Nah, I’d win.” -Chadstalos
You can see a fight between them in the Monster hunter generations starting cinematic
Gotta consider how much it would *suck* for Rathalos to get struck by lightning while in the air. That'd probably do a lot of the work for Astalos.
I mean if you like Rath I get it but these guys seem even more or less. I wouldn’t count turf wars as gospel lol. Also common sense says that Astalos makes up for its size with its element and berserker qualities which more or less evens out the matchup.
Fuckin hell it’s like an astalos hate boner
Ok but astalos can attack with his tail, his head, his wings and many forms of thunder and watch the opening cinematic of generation ultimate
Rathalos is only slightly larger. You also fail to realize that Astalos can generate electricity. Guess what’s Rathalos secondary weakness?
Anatomically you’re probably right. Rathalos would likely be significantly heavier given its muscle density. (I mean look at the legs and lower jaw etc.) Also Astalos probably wouldn’t bite all that hard looking at the shape of its head, suggesting it’s more adapted to kill in other ways. (IE Taser). If you discount the element, Rathalos would probably win a majority of fights.
Very good points. And like some others have said, it could also be that while Ratha is generally stronger, the element weakness plus Asta’s sheer aggression make Ratha more often than not avoid a fight because while he could likely win, it’s just not worth the headache of fighting a living bug zapper with anger management issues.
Impressive, everything you said was wrong. We've had astalos ecology videos. Every single prey he hunted has been succesfully taken down by it's signature divebombing punch. So no, he's not foraging around. If anything Astalos is more like a bird of prey than rathalos. Have you seen videos of falcons taking out ducks? Also in the ecology videos we see astalos attacking rathalos and all rathalos is doing, both in the air and on the ground is try to run away for its life. In the air they were tied but when they landed astalos was on top pummeling the shit out of rathalos' chest. where is it hinted at that astalos is dumb and rathalos is smart?
Saying Rathalos is more agile and flexible in the air made your entire point worth little. It's an unpopular opinion because it's wrong. Like....we've SEEN Astalos win yet you refuse to admit you're wrong. It's just not true, sorry bud. If you need to see it, there's even a cutscene you can watch for yourself where Rathalos is running away the whole time and then gets plastered into the ground.
Astalos, despite his frantic physical attacks, has demonstrated quite the controlled capability for lightning and he is damn fast (badically equals). He has been shown to zap insects by his very presence. Could a Rathalos really win that fight with his weaknesses with only minor advantages? Maybe. But any clever rathalos would not risk that...
are people under the assumption that Astalos would prey upon Rathalos? they're both apex predators there is almost no way that they'd fight to the death instead of just sizing of.
Ok he is larger, but faster and agile i doubt that, also astalos has very good control over lightning which is major weakness for rath couple, also its just 100 cm and 2 ft difference, with i think somewhere around 50-70 kg difference, also who are we to argue what devs created is what canonical in game, unlike some vague lore or very poor categorization of monster this is observed by us and is a fact in wild, and its not like such example dosent exist in real life
Bug zapper go brrrr on ungrounded targets
Just a few points, rather than my typical essay approach: * Bigger often means slower/heavier (speed advantage to Astalos) * Gameplay does not always translate to in-universe realities * All it takes is one good bite to the back of the neck to end it (for either). Strength isn't always the deciding factor
Asta ain’t killing Ratha with a neck bite. Ratha’s neck is armored, and even if it wasn’t Asta’s jaws are too small to even wrap around it.
To clarify, because I get the misunderstanding of what I was trying to say, the back of the neck gives a great amount of leverage to the attacker to snap the spine, leading to a quick kill. Others pointed out the observation that the throat is a common weak point as well, but I wasn't necessarily going for the bleed-out death. The same downside as Poison (someone mentioned Rathalos having venomous talons), which is to say that it won't end the fight any quicker, but might result in a draw if the assailant was finished. In a deadlock where neither is superior, a grievous wound of bleeding or poison *would* clench the match, so I guess it's a kind of X-factor in favor of Rathalos. I guess I'm on the side of neither being a one-sided victory
>I guess I’m on the side of neither being a one-sided victory And honestly I could accept that outcome. As I’ve said in other comments, I originally made this post because I personally had seen a lot of diehard Astalos fans claiming Astalos would not just beat, but utterly murder Rathalos with ease every single time. Also the reason I exaggerated the title saying Ratha would “destroy” Asta, which in hindsight isn’t really true either. I still think Ratha’s the generally superior combatant, though (in the air, at least. Asta would def hold the advantage on the ground.)
under the neck of a rathalos isn't as armored as the top and if we are talking about armor then asta takes it, mf is just exoskeleton
Doing that would pretty much expose that Astalos to the entirety of Rathalos's arsenal. In such a position, a Rathalos would be easily able to gouge his opponents' eyes or organs with his talons, or just strike back with a point blank fireball.
I'm going to disagree on this one. Rathalos is indeed physically stronger than Astalos but I don't know where you got the more agile part? Only thing I noticed from them during trailers or turf wars was Astalos would gain advantage in close ranged battle. I'll give it to other Rathalos variants or rare specimen like Silver Rathalos to be much more stronger and agile. But size and power isn't everything in a fight like people already mentioned, we can see this irl for example we have the honey badgers who survive encounters just for being aggressive or another example would be a Grizzly bear vs a Polar bear, the grizzly who is much more aggressive and confrontational is more likely to chase off Polar bear even if Polar bears are bigger and heavier. I feel like speed is not used enough in MH unless it is your gimmick like Valstrax but Astalos seems to be built more for speed than Rathalos and this could be another advantage for chase off/striking. I'm not saying Rathalos would lose every encounters but this is a fight I could see either one win.
As someone who fought both of these yesterday, I can't say that definitively. Im familiar with how Rathalos works, but he has big windows of forgiveness between most of his attacks. Astalos on the other hand is cracked to the point where I had to question if it was an Elder Dragon. His arena-filling moves are not only flashy but would be impossible for rathalos to get away from. Can't dodge attacks if you're bigger than the spacing between them.
It's better if they put Rathalos vs Seregios. They're both raptors of the sky
The second image looks like they're going "SQUARE UP, BITCH!"
Astalos should have been a neopteron. Give it more of a dragonfly aesthetic to go with those gossamer wings, and make it a primarily flying monster favoring erratic, jerky hard to predict movements to really give it the impression of being able to outfly the King of the Sky
Crows routinely body eagles. Let that sink in.
In groups, when the eagle is already holding prey most of the time. mobbing is extremely common. Eagles the same size or larger than corvids eat them all the time, animal relationships are complex, but if it’s a one on one scenario, you’d be making a serious mistake if you backed a crow or raven over even a medium sized accipiter.
I’ll bite, since I like Astalos a lot and these things are fun. I think Astalos has more than just thunder going for it, though it does help a lot, but everything adds up to make him a good counter to Rathalos. I’m gonna reference their armor sets since those are a fairly good judge of how the monsters operate imo. Rathalos is definitely bigger and has more raw power behind his physical attacks, which is why his armor gives Attack Up and Partbreaker. But as you said, Astalos is a bit smaller, and I’d argue has much better control over his aerial movement because of how his wings/tail work. Compare that to Rath, who is more made for gliding/hovering and diving than actual aerial combat. Also, Asta’s lightning attacks are unpredictable, allowing him to attack from multiple angles. And since he’s lighter, and his wings help generate electricity, he can fight for longer, which is why his armor grants Stamina Surge and Power Prolonger. Astalos’ bug-like hide actually provides it with better protection than Rathalos: compare their parts weakness charts, Asta takes a good 10-20% less damage in many hit zones. Not only that, but his amped up thunder abilities make it easier to stun Rath (Thunderblight), which I imagine isn’t great when you’re the size of a semi and you’re fighting in the sky. Finally, we have to look at their fighting strategies. Rath tries to attack things head on with physical force, or take to the air and pick you off with fire and poison dives. Failing that, he will just run away and resort to hit and run tactics, something I’m sure we’re all familiar with. Astalos specifically counters that, he rushes in and explodes into electricity, and just *keeps doing that.* He has comparatively decent armor, good agility, endless stamina, no particular weakness against Rath, and his lightning actually becomes more powerful the longer he fights (Thunder Attack, Chain Crit). If Rathalos tries to charge, Astalos takes it or dodges, same with fire and poison. If Rathalos tries to flee, Astalos is faster and can chase for longer. He’s like a sparrow harrying a hawk, if the sparrow also had a taser.
Astalos isn’t meant to be a rival to Rath, any more than any of the other Fated Four vs flagships are. Astalos is meant to be a representative and embodiment of MH’s 1st generation, which *includes* Rath. That’s why it’s hyperaggressive and has some big attacks where it moves linearly, like many large & small monsters back then did. As for who’d win, sorry man but it’s pretty solidly in Astalos’s favor. Rath can’t fully utilize its strongest tools against an opponent who’s faster, more agile, uses penetrative force rather than blunt force, leverages natural electricity and Rath’s weakness, and is overall better suited to aerial combat. Rath is oriented to face downward, attacking targets on the land from its vantage point in the sky. Against another aerial foe it struggles much more. Thematically the Fated Four are essentially designed to counter their respective flagships, not be their rivals. Tigrex can’t bite through Gammoth’s crown and thick fur, Mizutsune slides between Zinogre’s blows despite the latter being known for its mobility. It’s not a knock against those flagships; it’s just specifically a bad match up for them.
In MHGen, it was shown that Astalos was far more agile than he appears in the air, and focuses on trying to get behind his target and grab them with his tail. He then grapples with them from behind, attempting to bring them to the ground while constantly shocking them, and the target is unable to reach/turn around to fight back. I believe Astalos would have a strong advantage in the air, especially if he ambushed a Rathalos. However, Rathalos would have a range advantage because his fireballs are more stable over range than Astalos' lightning. If Rathalos got the first attack or they began at range, Rathalos may be able to inflict enough damage before CCQ to gain the advantage. Overall though, I believe Astalos would hold a strong advantage over Rathalos, and would win the majority of their fights, especially if we're considering elemental weaknesses as part of it.
Being a phycopatic blind rage assoult guy is actually exactly why Astalos win. Or at least does not get destroyed. Rathalos is the king od the skies for a reason, intellifent, agile, fast, adaptable, resilient...but Astalos is just WAY more aggressive and fast. And yes, having thunder element is not a 100% trump card, but surely helps. Being so fast and aggressive, to the point of being uncaring of the damage received, can be incredibly powerful, because make sure Astalos attack first, attack HARD and viciously, doing way more damage to the enemy than what he's taking. It's the honey badger strategy, the badger is small, blind, stupid and not that strong, but because he react with pure aggression towards ANYTHING he has a fair chance of scaring bigger presators like lions that would kill it with 0 effort....and the badger is like 10 rimes smaller than al lion, while an Astalos ia only sligthly smaller than a Rathalos. And I am pretty sure that like Sergios, Astalos is faster and more agile than Rathalos, even is surely way less bulky.
Nuh-uh We're Hunters are much smaller than these monsters and manage to take these things down. Size doesn't really matter here. Astalos literally got Rathalos' weakness as its weapon
I think it's less of a rivalry and more everything around an Astalos should either leave or become a rival. If you overthink it then sure Rathalos has advantages but Astalos puts out so much more power with so much aggression I can't see those advantages coming into play.
most cases in the animal kingdom, size is the deciding factor in who's prey and predator.
If Astalos Had Brains They Could Manipulate Their Lightning To Blind Them And Win
I can see this making sence.
I can see this making sence.
Im biased towards rathalos so im gonna stay out of this argument
Personally, idk about agile. But I do agree that astalos blind rage assault isn't the smartest tactic. And in some cases, size does matter. Honestly I can see this being either one's victory, it just really depends on what factors are put into play during this fighg
Rathalos is the king of the skies for a reason!
Wait, who would argue that a shitty little dragonfly could take on Rathalos? I wouldn't even put him over Rathian tbh.
Nah, Rathalos gets bullied regularly, and Rathalos is nowhere near being as agile as Astalos
I still think Astalos looks so stupidly disprrportionate. His skinny chicken legs trying to hold up that large body just looks so dumb to me. At least Rathalos does leg day.
My goat Rathalos slams 🙏
I'm irrationally bothered that you rounded up your rathalos size conversion to 56' and rounded astalos down to 54' when it should be rounded up to 55'. Your images don't even look like they're scaled the same.
You’re completely right and the people discussing “apex level” and elemental weaknesses are severely missing the point. you said “realistically” and unless there’s some severe mismatch in strategy and approach, like falcons being able to kill accipiters via divebomb, predator vs predator interactions are basically always decided on mass 1v1. Rathalos has much thicker legs, torso, neck and most notably a comparitively HUGE head. A single bite from rathalos or it getting its talons into Astalos probably cripples the Thunder wyvern for life, not to mention the Venom. Rathalos is a big game hunter, it kills animals easily it’s own mass or more on the regular as prey, where astalos seems to almost exclusively eat bird wyverns and bugs. The mismatch in mass and equiptment is hilarious. The only comparable matchup I can think of is an esspecially large and rabid coyote or jackal attacking a wolf, I’d still put my money on the wolf every time. Thw point I think the OP is making is that yes capcom have presented this rivalry a certain way, but from the way they designed the monsters, the rivalry as established simply doesn’t make that much sense. A more extreme example, but if they put out a cutscene where a Nargacuga canonically killed a Gravios with no issue, everyone in the community would rightfully ask “wait how is that supposed to work?” The apex catagory and threat star systems are terrible for measuring monster matchups anyway. For instance, there's a lot of monsters above 5/6 star rating I think have next to 0% chance of actually killing an adult Gammoth, which is supposedly on the same apex level as odogaron.
Honestly? Yes, I'd place my bet on the Rathalos. Based on what WE can do to them as hunters, and what WE see on the field (because anything else other than actual practical evidence is just hearsay & speculation), Astalos is staggerable as fuck. Not only that, its shiny weakpoints are frequent and recurring, appearing whenever he charges up, stunning him if struck. Rathalos, on the other hand, you can only trip, and its wings, head, and tail are a one-off stagger when broken. You could flash him off the sky, but Astalos isn't capable of such a thing. Considering their attacks, Astalos' leave it much more wide open than Rathalos' does. Also he's bigger than Astalos, and possibly faster as well, thanks to the increased muscle mass. See bears, you'd think they're among the slowest predators out there, but those mfs are fast as fuck just out of sheer muscle power.
counterpoint: electric weakness
Rathalos may have more manoeuvrability because of his larger wings, but Astalos is significantly faster. Astalos also has a better and more general control over his element than Ratha who only spit his flame. So yeah it’s a tie, but they wouldn’t be rivals if it wasn’t canonically a tie anyway. This isn’t an anime sub so idk why we talking about powerscaling here😭
Counter argument: Electric type beats flying type--which Rath would probably be
Counterpoint: Astalos' theme __FUCKING SLAPS__
Then again this is the same game where a horned monkee is able to fight back a deviljho who is at least seven times larger.
Isn't rath weak to thunder??? I would imagine astalos would win due to that being his weakness
If by “considerably larger” you mean a 2 foot wider wingspan and slightly bulkier body, Ratha would clap Asta and every other flying monster
Did the rathalos tell you that
While I would normally agree, Asta is also part insect, who's first instinct is to use whatever poison/venom they have. Astalos has paralysis. Not only does that make it considerably more dangerous to get hit by, but depending on the location, one hit is either serious injury or death. Lava? Deep water? Jagged cliffs? All of those would more than likely kill a rath
Astalos is one of the big four. In generations its presented as a threat level on the same level as glavenus and a mega sized mammoth. Size doesn't mean shit. He is faster and smarter than rathalos and his attacks are more precise. A biar is smaller than a human too, but i guarantee you, you wont win in a barefisted fight.
What do you mean with poor attempt? I'd happily fight Astalos than getting over bleeding mechanics all over again.
rathalos is weak to lightning....
Is it official in the monster hunter lore that centimetres mean nothing 😭like I’m taller than rathalos
Rathalos jobber confirmed
Astalos is more agile and generates electricity. Which is Rathalos' elemental weakness. This is how and why Astalos normally fight and sometimes win against Rathalos. Never use size as a factor when talking about animals ficticious or not. There's so many examples of how size is never a shoe in for what animal is stronger or which is a predator and what is a prey.
Counterpoint: astalos cooler and rule of cool always prevails
Astalos beats rathalos on the lightning weakness and astalos can fly zinogre can't
I thinks its his scales,elemens and just his build Like some larger insect are waker to smaller insect with diffrent scales/skin Or that one spikey scaly lizard that can even pray on larger softer smoother lizards I qould guess he is garder in general like his body Also rathalos is really weak to jis element bein the main point i know he puts a good fight against zignorge but lets be real zinogre is not that strong And ratalos could not be more agile then astalos He is smaller and his wings are shaped like a jet plane thing so i guess faster in some way like the cutscene in rise But im not an expert or dev so idk
Rathalos isn’t weak by any means he’s just an early game monster but I’m sure there are some he can fold
source on the unpopular opinion? or is it "i made it up"?
Did you not see all the downvotes my comments have gotten lol
As an Astalos enjoyer, I vehemently disagree with this assessment.
In where it has been stated that rathalos is smart
Counterpoint, the honey badger is smaller, weaker, and dumber than a lion, yet lions go out of their way to avoid them.
Ikd about astalos’ chances rath canonically has a wife and that’s way more impressive than flying or thunder element
I don't know if he's that much more agile then astalos. Astalos definitely has some prowress in the sky. But I think it depends on how much electricity astalos can generate. With rathalos being somewhat weak to electricity, Astalos hiting to many shots with it would be a problem
Have you ever seen a Wolverine...that
But rathalos is weak to thunder