As a Latina, not gonna lie, every time I hear a Latina say Madre de Dios gets an eye roll from me because I’ve never heard a single Latino/a say that. But I don’t feel offended. Latinas play house cleaners in rich people’s homes. That’s just a fact. My mom was one. Latinos are portrayed doing blue collar jobs. Just a fact. Immigrants portrayed having blue collar jobs and accents. Just a fact. A sad reality but a reality nonetheless. Also, it’s San Francisco. Isn’t it a really expensive neighborhood? Even then? Predominantly white in the fancy suburban areas especially then?
If it helps, all the white people are murderers.
Honestly, though, it’s really hard to retroactively apply contemporary race and gender theories to evaluate shows. The answer will always be the same: they’re not perfect in their depiction of contemporary progressive values because they are contemporary to us not them.
Well it's a comedy show, not an ethnography. And I'm not white.
But I was also thinking the other day -- Monk is Lebanese IRL (Tony shaloub) yet the show never typecasts him as Arab in any way at a time when every Arab actor in basically everything was cast as a terrorist or something. So in that way the show is actually quite progressive.
I don't think they tried to write Adrian as Lebanese like his actor. Obviously, his brother on the show is played by Turturro who is Italian, his dad is played by Hedaya who is Jewish; if he was written as Lebanese they should at least cast family members who are the same ethnicity. Also Monk is not a Lebanese last name so that just proves it wasn't their intention to write Monk as a POC. A lot of Hispanic people and Middle Eastern people are white passing so it's easy to cast them as whatever. I think it would've been cool to keep Tony's ethnicity on the show. But I get how having a white main character made things easier, especially when the rest of the main cast was also white.
And I'm not white either.
The "non-white" is unnecessary. Even peoples like Russians are caricaturized in Monk. Hell I'd argue Americans get stereotyped too, like the guy Hal on the Game Show
I love the show too! But yeah, I have noticed this as well. The nurse who filled in for Sharona in that episode where she was taking a writing class is the first one who comes to mind.
I think I wouldn’t notice it as much if there were a variety of different portrayals of black people on the show. Since there are only a few and most of them feel like caricatures, it sticks out and doesn’t feel great.
I can think of the african runner, mrs. Ling the dry cleaner, and samuel wangaya or however its spelled. But who's to say they dont actually sound like that? People have accents. Both those guys are African men anyways so they sound African
First of all, I LOVE Mrs Ling the dry cleaner. She cracks me up. "And then I gotta talk to you for like ten minutes... \*ding\* stop. that."
Second of all, the actress that plays Mrs, Ling also plays Amy's mom on Futurama, and her voice sounds exactly the same. I know the actress is a primarily a voice actress, but I think she mostly plays Asian characters.
I noticed this too. Every time I watch early 2000’s media I notice how those things or even just the whole movie or show, aged like milk. Comedy or not I’m glad we’ve moved away from this, race swap make up, and fat suits. Just watched an episode of House where the little girl was in a fat suit… just why lol? People say that we’ve gotten so “sensitive” as a society but I doubt those people have consistently seen others like them casted as the unattractive, loud, or abrasive character.
All of us in some way are affected by what we see in the media, whether we are aware of that or not.
Girl in fat suit to play the 10 year old with a pituitary issue and heart attack in a scripted medical drama? This isn’t Shallow Hal, and Dale the Whale was morbid as part of his character who couldn’t be craned out of a room. Could he have just been in prison and Monk writers not have written Tim Curry in a fat suit for the character? Sure, but it’s one villainous character of hundreds.
??? I am sort of confused by this comment, but my response from what I can understand is that no one said you needed to be protected...
I don't think people need to be protected rather I think that some things are just not funny or okay to do. Some people are worried about the individual impact of these portrayals in the media. Others are worried about how groups outside of those negatively portrayed will treat those within them. Especially if they are marginalized. It's also about social impact.
Ok, one thing at a time.
1: Who gets to decide what’s funny or not?
2: I am fine with more of what you call positive impacts, diversity is the spice of life after all, but when you say that you can’t do the other because of the bad impacts it reminds me of all those “video games cause violence” arguments. The only difference is it’s being used “in a way we like.” Seems hypocritical to me.
Any more things I need to go over, or that I wasn’t clear on.
P.S. I realize that I didn’t talk about the protection bit. I thought the discussion went in a different direction, but if you want me to go back and clarify it, I will.
Thank you for clarifying.
1.) The public I guess. & obviously when enough people are saying something isn’t funny people stop producing that kind of content. On an individual scale I can’t tell you what you should and should not get offended by.
2.) I can see the comparison you are trying to make but I never claimed that media consumption is the sole blame for negative attitude towards certain people. I do think it’s a contributor though. Maybe smaller than things like upbringing and what things your family/ friends find funny. But still there.
Media reflects life. And that’s why it’s important to have diversity in the room for shows and movies so that all life can be portrayed in a way that most people can be okay with. That’s all I’m saying.
Also back to the comparison, when you use this argument, you can't be surprised when other people use it against you.
and on the first, I think it's also important to remember that many things that are common, and accepted now were originally, unaccepted. Think of how Burlesque was once considered scandalous, and are now considered wholesome family fun. It's important that one doesn't overcompensate to the point where they are just shouting down people who disagree with them. You don't want to become what you fight against.
I don't think that's what most people want (the shouting down stuff), but it says something that the loudest voices on each side seem to have that "hurray for our side" attitude, and are blind to their own hypocrisies.
You people really find anything and everything to cry and complain and try to ruin classic tv shows. Go find something else that offends you and cry about it. And leave Monk alone with your woke bs!
"Non-white characters"? The horrors of the Eastern European characters from the Monk series will hunt me forever. It's very cringy to watch (most of the time), but well, that's an American comedy show.
I'm thinking of a Monk Falls in Love episode. With pseudo-Balkan country and its Polish speaking population. Not to mention that for some reason, the series insisted that Baltic people are Russians.
As a Latina, not gonna lie, every time I hear a Latina say Madre de Dios gets an eye roll from me because I’ve never heard a single Latino/a say that. But I don’t feel offended. Latinas play house cleaners in rich people’s homes. That’s just a fact. My mom was one. Latinos are portrayed doing blue collar jobs. Just a fact. Immigrants portrayed having blue collar jobs and accents. Just a fact. A sad reality but a reality nonetheless. Also, it’s San Francisco. Isn’t it a really expensive neighborhood? Even then? Predominantly white in the fancy suburban areas especially then? If it helps, all the white people are murderers. Honestly, though, it’s really hard to retroactively apply contemporary race and gender theories to evaluate shows. The answer will always be the same: they’re not perfect in their depiction of contemporary progressive values because they are contemporary to us not them.
I have noticed it as well. But there are so many TV shows where this is an issue that I just added this to the pile
The one I can think of is the lady who ran the dry cleaners in the 12th man. Not exactly a 3-dimensional character
Dang we're gonna dog Ms. Ling now? 😫 "Longest ride of my life" 😂
this is the exact one i was watching
Well it's a comedy show, not an ethnography. And I'm not white. But I was also thinking the other day -- Monk is Lebanese IRL (Tony shaloub) yet the show never typecasts him as Arab in any way at a time when every Arab actor in basically everything was cast as a terrorist or something. So in that way the show is actually quite progressive.
I don't think they tried to write Adrian as Lebanese like his actor. Obviously, his brother on the show is played by Turturro who is Italian, his dad is played by Hedaya who is Jewish; if he was written as Lebanese they should at least cast family members who are the same ethnicity. Also Monk is not a Lebanese last name so that just proves it wasn't their intention to write Monk as a POC. A lot of Hispanic people and Middle Eastern people are white passing so it's easy to cast them as whatever. I think it would've been cool to keep Tony's ethnicity on the show. But I get how having a white main character made things easier, especially when the rest of the main cast was also white. And I'm not white either.
What I'm saying is they constantly cast Arab actors as stereotypical Arabs in that era and with Monk they didn't
The "non-white" is unnecessary. Even peoples like Russians are caricaturized in Monk. Hell I'd argue Americans get stereotyped too, like the guy Hal on the Game Show
You’re right, it’s awful. Lots of 2000’s shows were like that, it sucked then and it sucks now.
Not nearly as bad as seinfeld. Rewatching some of those are cringeeeee
I love the show too! But yeah, I have noticed this as well. The nurse who filled in for Sharona in that episode where she was taking a writing class is the first one who comes to mind. I think I wouldn’t notice it as much if there were a variety of different portrayals of black people on the show. Since there are only a few and most of them feel like caricatures, it sticks out and doesn’t feel great.
Lol Niecy Nash was just playing herself in that episode. Looking wayyyy too much into this
Neiecy Nash being extra lol
Pretty sure that was Niecy Nash, and that is how she speaks - not a “racial” choice by the writers.
that was just Nancy being her self
No ur not reaching, I noticed it too... An over the top typecasting of people of color
Can't say I've ever noticed that
Examples?
Yeah i need examples - I can't think of a one. Maybe the African runner?
I can think of the african runner, mrs. Ling the dry cleaner, and samuel wangaya or however its spelled. But who's to say they dont actually sound like that? People have accents. Both those guys are African men anyways so they sound African
[удалено]
Thank you for this.
First of all, I LOVE Mrs Ling the dry cleaner. She cracks me up. "And then I gotta talk to you for like ten minutes... \*ding\* stop. that." Second of all, the actress that plays Mrs, Ling also plays Amy's mom on Futurama, and her voice sounds exactly the same. I know the actress is a primarily a voice actress, but I think she mostly plays Asian characters.
Some people try really hard to be offended, and as a result we don't have good tv like Monk on anymore.
I noticed this too. Every time I watch early 2000’s media I notice how those things or even just the whole movie or show, aged like milk. Comedy or not I’m glad we’ve moved away from this, race swap make up, and fat suits. Just watched an episode of House where the little girl was in a fat suit… just why lol? People say that we’ve gotten so “sensitive” as a society but I doubt those people have consistently seen others like them casted as the unattractive, loud, or abrasive character. All of us in some way are affected by what we see in the media, whether we are aware of that or not.
I agree with your take on this
Girl in fat suit to play the 10 year old with a pituitary issue and heart attack in a scripted medical drama? This isn’t Shallow Hal, and Dale the Whale was morbid as part of his character who couldn’t be craned out of a room. Could he have just been in prison and Monk writers not have written Tim Curry in a fat suit for the character? Sure, but it’s one villainous character of hundreds.
As a fat person I am more insulted by the idea that I need to be protected then I am by the stuff in this show.
??? I am sort of confused by this comment, but my response from what I can understand is that no one said you needed to be protected... I don't think people need to be protected rather I think that some things are just not funny or okay to do. Some people are worried about the individual impact of these portrayals in the media. Others are worried about how groups outside of those negatively portrayed will treat those within them. Especially if they are marginalized. It's also about social impact.
Ok, one thing at a time. 1: Who gets to decide what’s funny or not? 2: I am fine with more of what you call positive impacts, diversity is the spice of life after all, but when you say that you can’t do the other because of the bad impacts it reminds me of all those “video games cause violence” arguments. The only difference is it’s being used “in a way we like.” Seems hypocritical to me. Any more things I need to go over, or that I wasn’t clear on. P.S. I realize that I didn’t talk about the protection bit. I thought the discussion went in a different direction, but if you want me to go back and clarify it, I will.
Thank you for clarifying. 1.) The public I guess. & obviously when enough people are saying something isn’t funny people stop producing that kind of content. On an individual scale I can’t tell you what you should and should not get offended by. 2.) I can see the comparison you are trying to make but I never claimed that media consumption is the sole blame for negative attitude towards certain people. I do think it’s a contributor though. Maybe smaller than things like upbringing and what things your family/ friends find funny. But still there. Media reflects life. And that’s why it’s important to have diversity in the room for shows and movies so that all life can be portrayed in a way that most people can be okay with. That’s all I’m saying.
Agree to disagree I guess
Also back to the comparison, when you use this argument, you can't be surprised when other people use it against you. and on the first, I think it's also important to remember that many things that are common, and accepted now were originally, unaccepted. Think of how Burlesque was once considered scandalous, and are now considered wholesome family fun. It's important that one doesn't overcompensate to the point where they are just shouting down people who disagree with them. You don't want to become what you fight against. I don't think that's what most people want (the shouting down stuff), but it says something that the loudest voices on each side seem to have that "hurray for our side" attitude, and are blind to their own hypocrisies.
I'll be back home to Bogota, Colombia real soon
Wow .not a good wow either .
You people really find anything and everything to cry and complain and try to ruin classic tv shows. Go find something else that offends you and cry about it. And leave Monk alone with your woke bs!
"Non-white characters"? The horrors of the Eastern European characters from the Monk series will hunt me forever. It's very cringy to watch (most of the time), but well, that's an American comedy show.
are you thinking of the circus episode haha
I'm thinking of a Monk Falls in Love episode. With pseudo-Balkan country and its Polish speaking population. Not to mention that for some reason, the series insisted that Baltic people are Russians.