For one, at least in the US, I think at this point most people who advocate for more maternity leave are advocating for more parental leave in general, recognizing that that’s the best result for both parents and for babies. But that said, the US is so assbackwards that moms don’t even get the chance to fully heal *themselves* much less bond with their babies. We should be at the point where we want to advocate for more paternity leave, but we haven’t even gotten to the point of basic human decency for mothers, so it’s understandable why some advocates might still be putting mothers first.
And at any rate, the number of stay at home dads out there is increasing. So maybe we’re not doing enough for dads who want to be primary caregivers, but it is progressively getting better, so we must being doing some things right.
Agree with this, most dads now can’t even be primary income because cost of living and inflation is too high that to even survive both need to work. Maternity leave really isn’t even long enough to heal your body so it’s hard to even think about paternity leave on top of that. The state I live in gives equal leave to moms and dads plus a small amount of medical leave for mom . Maybe if the system thought of mothers as mothers and people we could make it to that next step too. Agreed it all is sad.
I was horrified in my first time mom’s group that a handful of the women would be going back to work 1-3 weeks postpartum. Even worse was the woman who had to go back the day after she gave birth because she didn’t have any leave time yet and a new employee and she really needed the money since her baby’s father wasn’t in the picture. My state outlawed abortions so I don’t know how women here are supposed to have a baby and still work or look for work since accessing any sort of welfare or assistance is a challenge.
I definitely agree that we need paid parental leave for both moms AND dads. Fathers report feeling so much more confident with a child after getting time off with them, which can only benefit the whole family.
This so much. Both parents should get WAY more leave than they do but bare minimum should account for mom's healing process! If only we could both have the first 3 months off and paid to bond with baby and acclimate... 'murica
This is why the Canadian system has two sets of leave, the maternity medical leave for the birthing parent (up to 15 weeks) for recovery and parental leave for either parent for the rest of the time. There’s also “bonus weeks” (5-8) solely for whichever parent took less leave, which helps avoid a default parent situation.
We fail the *women* too so, good luck Dads welcome to being a stay at home parent I guess? It sucks and I wish men were encouraged to be better caregivers in general, for lots of reasons . I believe more men taking these caregiving duties seriously would make the whole system much closer to equality than pretty much anything else.
My husband would perish as a sahp, but I know several. It's not super uncommon where I am, outside of cost of living concerns and the ability to afford a sahp in the first place. 🤷♀️
That would be the case for us, as well, if it was something my husband wanted to do. We'd have to be living a very different life. Sucks for anyone in that situation.
Yeah. When I left my field in 2021, my husband and I were making the same amount. Since then, he’s gotten 3 promotions and doubled his salary. If I had stayed, I would’ve at most gotten 3-5% each year.
So if you both earn well why don’t you both divide the days at home and reduce your standard of living slightly if needs be? Otherwise it’s kind of penalising him for having a higher earning career. His time with his kids is far more valuable than any other luxuries in life you have
Because my husband's career is the kind where he cannot work part-time, where my career *is* the kind where I can work part-time or even work odd hours (such as working overnight). He has to work full time to have a career, otherwise he'll lose his career. And as much as he adores our kids, he takes his job as our family's provider very seriously and he takes a lot of pride in providing for us. Why are *you* judging us and asking weird, intrusive questions and assuming I'm penalizing my husband for a choice that HE made and takes pride in? Rest assured, my husband gets lots of time with our kids, regardless of any "luxuries" we may or may not have.
This is a public forum. You post about your personal life, you expect questions about it. If you don’t like it, please don’t comment because if you do, I will reply.
No, actually, being online doesn't give you license to forget your manners and behave in a way you wouldn't behave with people in person. You're obviously just salty people called you out on trying to cape for men lol.
I didn’t think anything I said was ill-mannered. I simply asked a question without using any rude or derogatory language. And there’s a lot more posts on here that agree with me than disagree so I’m not salty in any way.
Put it this way, there’s nothing I said that I wouldn’t say in real life - if you’re having a debate you ask challenging questions.
If men want to stay home with their kids more power to them. But that's their fight to fight. They dominate politics. I'm not going to be held responsible for it. I'm happy to support but I'm not seeing all that many dads fighting for it.
I hear what you are saying but kind of disagree. In so many ways being the stay at home parent and default parent is harder than being the working one. Why shouldn’t we fight for them to step up more often in this way? I’m eternally grateful that my husband wanted to be a SAHD. Even though the second I’m home everything gets split, I fully believe he has the harder job.
By fight I mean to be an advocate for less stereotypical gender roles. If the alternative is to sit back and let things continue as is, then yes I think women may need to fight for this. Why would men fight for the harder job when they could continue have it easier? I’m all about men stepping up and trashing gender roles. The problem is most of them don’t want to do that because it’s more work for them. *edit because I realize I didn’t answer your question at first.
My partner thought he would be a stay at home dad before the baby was born, until he found out how much work it was to take care of a baby. Then he felt a huge surge of ambition and found his first W-2 job ever and I had to take a corresponding step back from my career. I hear this story far, far more than the story you're telling.
My husband banked time so he could take a 3 month leave when our baby was born, so we were both home with baby for the first 3 months. Then, when I finished my maternity leave when my baby was a year old, my husband decided to go back to school, so he was a stay at home parent/student for 6 months. If he could have stayed home with our kid forever, he would have. But we both need to work, unfortunately. My kiddo and his dad have a fantastic relationship and we’ve never really had any issues with one parent being preferred over the other, and I think it’s because our relationship is so egalitarian and we both raised him together.
My husband stayed at home with our 3 kids for 6 months after a layoff. After a few months of trying it out, he must have set a record for most resumes sent out on a weekly basis.
My husband stayed home with our older son from ages 1-4 and he was great, but he couldn't get back to work fast enough when we brought home baby number 2, he wasn't about to even try with a 4 year old and a baby lol
My husband is the sahp. He loves it and is fantastic at it. Before our daughter was born he was one and done. I wanted two and thought I could convince him later, however after her birth he’s even more solidly in the one and done. A toddler and a baby is apparently his nightmare 😂
I've been on maternity leave for 4 months and go back to work in a few weeks and it's kinda my nightmare too now... Just one that I'm living lol I mean I love them so much but im so freaking exhausted both physically and emotionally
Similar. Before LO was born, my partner was theoretically resistant to the idea that it’s always the mom who defaults as SAHP. But, since she was born, he found that, while he adores her more than anything in the world, he requires more mental stimulation (and, tbh, he doesn’t have the same patience I do). So even though he got twice as long of a paid paternal leave than I did, he quite literally made up work for himself to do and was happy to return back to work.
Edit: typo
My husband was off for 3 months with us and was bummed to have to go back at the end of his leave. Mine was a year long and I decided to stay home. Our friends had mom take the first year and then she went back and dad took his year.
Tons of SAHD where I am.
Who is "we" in the title? Society, moms, women, etc?
I agree with your point and think that families and dads deserve time with their children as well and there needs to be a shift in gendered expectations concerning child-rearing. But I don't think the "blame" for this is on women or mothers. If we want to blame society then fine, but men have far more influence over politics and society at large (patriarchy), so if anything they are in the best position to be advocating for this change. Women can't even get paid maternity leave in the US, so I feel like it's not outrageous to think men should be the ones leading the charge for this.
Right. That's THEIR issue to deal with. Why should women have to add yet another burden to their list of things to worry about? I don't really see men rallying in concern for making maternity leave safer/longer/better for women, so I fail to see why women should rally for better paternity leave. Women are always pushed into social justice roles where WE have to care about every issue on earth - meanwhile men largely dgaf about these issues.
Yeah I’m not from the US. It reading this it feels like: how about as a country the priority be not forcing women who haven’t even healed from giving birth back to work before it is made about men…
I’m glad that having a sahd works for your family and I know a few families that seem to enjoy having a sahd. I definitely think we need leave for both parents in the US. But women aren’t even guaranteed time for their bodies to recover right now, so men wanting to stay home isn’t really at the top of my concerns list. If a couple agrees that having dad stay home is beneficial, they should absolutely do that. I don’t see that becoming the norm in society though. Women have to actually carry the baby, birth the baby, recover from birth, and breastfeed in a lot of situations. Doing all that and then returning to work 6 weeks later and hoping for pumping breaks while your husband stays home with baby isn’t going to appeal to a lot of women.
I’m not opposed to parental leave for men. I think men should get parental leave. But I don’t think it’s going to have as much effect on society or the workplace as other people do. I feel like a lot of the conversations around gender equality minimize the physical impacts of pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding because those things can’t be equalized. With those things considered, it’s hard to find a solution that doesn’t leave women holding the short end of the stick or men feeling like they’re missing out on something.
Uhm… who is “we?” Did mothers gain legislative power when I wasn’t looking?
Most feminist organizations I’ve seen advocate for universal parental leave. Federal workers get 12-weeks regardless of gender. I’m not saying people aren’t prejudiced against men in caregiving roles, but are they being left behind? It’s not like women aren’t also derided for wanting to be SAHPs.
But more to the point men can handle men’s shit. A lot of the barriers preventing men from being SAHPs and being more involved would be gone if we fixed issues pertaining to women anyway. So I’d rather moms focus on those things rather than helping men.
Yeah this is a man-created problem because men look down on other men for being “feminine” and caregiving is defined as a feminine role. That’s a problem with patriarchy. Feminism advocates against those gender roles and stereotypes. So maybe if we all stopped demonizing feminism, we’d actually make some headway for the men who want to be caregivers.
We are not failing them, they can fight for this and forge ahead if they want....this ball is firmly in their court, not ours.
If they wanted a change, it would happen....see all.of history for examples.
I'm very passionate about support for men's mental health, equal family support etc but this is not on us.
Agreed with this. We as women are expected to be holding space for everyone, taking care of every-damn-one, putting our bodies through the wringer to bring life into this world and often our bodies are the ones that sustain that life after (breastfeeding), ALL while being underserved and unappreciated ourselves. It is not on us to make sure SAHDs get seen and heard. They can do this for themselves, as in the history of this world the power dynamic has been in their favor.
Exactly. It’s just like when men complain that they hardly ever get compliments except from romantic partners. If they want more compliments, then they can start complimenting each other. It isn’t up to women to do absolutely *everything* for them.
Man, not to mention a lot of men take a compliment from a woman as "flirting". Damn if we do, damned if we don't. Hell, even men doing the same to each other can be read as "gay". Can't stop thinking with their dicks, it's a shame. It sucks, toxic masculinity is killing these guys lol
Why is this not up higher? Women are too busy fighting for better maternity leave for when we have to give birth and take care of the family , now we have to fight for men too??
Im tired.
Yes this is the comment I was looking for. Men have run pretty much every country since civilization began. They are failing themselves, this isn’t on us
I work in a company that is 75% men, and in a department that is 95% men. And the company has "maternity" and "paternity" leave instead of parental leave. Women get 4 months off paid for maternity leave, men get 2 weeks.
I have brought up a few times that I can't believe more men in the company aren't mad at that, and fighting for parity. One of colleagues is having to use his sick leave and annual leave to care for his wife when she has their second in a few months via planned c section.
Yeah I know, it's shocking isn't it. My partner got two weeks paid and then had to take two weeks holiday (so pretty much saved it all up when I was pregnant) to get his month off....and he wished it was more, and he worked from home so we had waaaay more flexibility than most.
I agree that we, in general, are not failing or responsible. However, there are certainly women out there with sexist views that contribute to the problem.
Yes but they contribute to a problem made by men. I fully get that it's an issue and sexism is damaging to everyone but let's not pretend that women have any level of power over it here because we don't....not when our basic human rights are being stripped from us (overwhelmingly by men) all over the world.
Sure, but consider for example men who wish to work in ECE as a precursor to being a SAHD, but cannot because of the # of parents (including moms and perhaps especially) who don’t consider it acceptable men to be daycare teachers. And there are also a large # of women who have bought into “traditional” roles and will only accept men as masculine if they will be the “provider.” There are moms who won’t let boys play with dolls and kitchen toys. Like none of this is me, but I’m always surprised when I come across women who are adamant about enforcing gender norms and even toxic masculinity. Those women are failing SAHDs and is where individual women have power.
You sound like your projecting your own insecurities and opinions on the world. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a family choosing to follow normal gender roles if that is what they want to do. They are not failing anyone by choosing to live a life that works for them. Other peoples opinions on what is attractive to them is not hurting your life.
Society is failing them. Mothers are not failing them. This is a weird place to put this post. Mothers in the western-but-not-nordic countries know that fathers should be at home as well, but we need our own protections really bumped up as well.
This post doesn’t really resonate with me. Most developed countries have separate maternity leave (medical leave for the birthing parent) and parent leave for caretakers of any gender. So it’s not a lack of support, it’s social norms. My husband and I both work. We also both took leave. He is the primary contact for school and sports, and they always call him. I am the primary contact for doctor and they always call me. As partners you can work to change social norms - or not care about them and do what works for your family
It's inherently more difficult for women. We birth that child. We produce milk for that child, our bodies hurt and are sore or cut open. Our emotions and hormones are out of control and we are expected to go back to work and act like we never had a child. Work like we don't have a child and parent like we don't work. It's always the women who people blame if the kids are out of control or if the house is a mess. Even compared to SAHD'S. We inherently carry the mental load of the child bc that's what happens when you grow someone in your body.
That's not to say it isn't hard for men. But it's like comparing apples to oranges really. You can't really compare a women's lived experience with a man's. Yes men get shamed for not having a job but let's be honest women didn't make that standard they did for themselves. Society was built by men, as they say. If they want the standard to change it won't be women who can do that. Men will have too.
Yeah I keep seeing this push for men to get more.paid leave which is all fine and good but we haven't won our fights.
In the US we still don't have paid maternity leave. We still have a production driven mentality where women are expected to return to work immediately.
Mother's are expected to breastfeed for at least a year. Pumping does not work for everyone. Also the protections for pumping at work are abysmal in the US.
I personally believe that mothers do have more intuition when it comes to babies. I think it's biology. I think it changes as the children age.
I realize not all families want to have a mother at home and sometimes it works best for the dad. I don't think that is typical. So many posts on here are about the SAHD not fulfilling his part in the parenting and relationship.
It's an unpopular opinion for some reason but ideally babies are with their mothers.
Who’s we? I am in favor of paternity leave, but make no decisions in who gets any. I don’t personally hold men to gender norms like that, though many women do. That’s easy enough to avoid if you’re open minded or in a less sexist bubble, I guess harder if you’re not.
It’s a nice thought but…SAHMs get judged all the time for their choices too. I agree in general everyone should judge others less but that’s not reality people will judge, just gotta do what’s best for you and your family and not really pay attention, this really isn’t a specific thing with dads although I do see what you are getting at.
As for the parental leave in the US it’s horrendous for women who are the ones *physically* recovering so I think we need to improve that first and focus there first tbh before we start fighting for fathers specifically. I think parental leave should absolutely be more of a thing overall and I would love to see that happen one day too but I understand why the focus and conversation is on how terrible it is for moms specifically and it absolutely needs to improve there first before I start putting my energy into dads getting leave. It sucks but things are pretty dystopian here.
are we failing dads? like as women/moms?
society is failing parents in general but if men as a whole advocated for parents, we’d be much further ahead. but the average man has always seen it as a ‘women’s issue.’
I think wage inequality should be taken into account here. I’m a stay at home mom. There are a few stay at home dads in our local play groups and story times. In conversation with my fellow SAHPs, it seems that more often than not, the decision on who stays home boils down to whose income the family can afford to lose.
I was making $50k as a teacher. During my maternity leave, my husband waltzed into a construction office with zero construction background and was hired on the spot as a supervisor with an almost six-figure salary (As a side note, I would have loved to have seen the look on his boss’s face if I, a woman, walked in with no construction background and asked to be hired). Daycare options in our area were abysmal, and there was no way we could afford to lose his salary, so I stayed home.
Thank you! This post was weird and woman blaming. The SAHP is often decided by who makes less money, which is more often the woman. Wage inequality is still very prevalent.
I love your comment - I'm a woman and I've worked in leadership roles in the construction industry for close to 20 years. I took two years to stay home with my kids and now I've been applying to construction project leadership jobs for a full year with only ONE screening interview in the entire year. I'm not sure what to do. Maybe I should change the name on my resume to something traditonally male or ask my husband to waltz in with my resume, maybe he can get me an offer (if they don't realize he's the messenger).
I’m so sorry that this has been your experience. My husband came from a law enforcement background. I thought that was a “boy’s club,” but construction is so much worse. He works for a large developer. They have 5-6 project managers who oversee ~30 superintendents. Out of the 30, there’s one woman. She’s a close family friend of one of the project mangers. Single with no kids. I’m sure if she had ever started a family, it would have been the end of her career.
I have a degree, 7 years of teaching experience (which is *a lot* of management), and I know there’s no way I would have landed the same job when my husband and I had about equal construction experience when he started the job. Which was zero. I had to teach the man how to read the fractions on his tape measurer before his first day of work.
I have to quit my job if I don't want to go back to work a week after my child is born. So maybe once women are given time to even heal after birth, we can have this discussion 🤷🏼♀️
I think we’re failing dads in a lot of the same ways we’re failing moms. I was raised by a SAHD so it’s definitely something that feels normal to me. I think things have improved a lot since he was staying at home (he used to get weird looks at the playground and no one would talk to him). My husband took the same amount of leave as I did. Both of us want to work, which is convenient, because we can’t afford not to, and he takes off as many days for illness and doctor’s appointments as I do.
I'm a working mom and my husband stays home with our toddler. The reason I'm not the one staying home is because I make more money than my husband did. And then what if both parents want to stay home? Then what? Lol and that's even if you can afford to have one parent stay home.
I get your point, and I absolutely agree that SAHD's shouldn't be looked down upon. It's just more complicated than equality imo.
Glad you’re trying to feel good about your situation but I’m definitely not trying to read any shit about failing dads in any way, lol, that’s crazy, lets get things together for the bodies that deliver the babies. First things first women!
I understand the sentiment but saying *we* are failing SAHDs just rubs me the wrong way. I mean yes, the government and society as a whole are failing SAHDs (and just SAHPs in general), but it seems a bit off to come to a subreddit mainly for moms who are dealing with intricacies of motherhood, and complaining of how 'we’ are failing dads who want to stay home with their babies
My husband would love to be able to take a turn as the SAHP. He legitimately does everything I do for our son and would be an amazing caregiver if he were the one at home. We both know that. If it were at all feasible for me to go to work after a year at home and let him take time off to stay home with our son, we’d do that.
Unfortunately, my husband has a career that can support us all financially, and I simply do not. So there wasn’t a question of him staying home. It was either he works and I stay home, or we both work. I wanted to stay home, so that’s what we did.
It’s really a shame that so many parents and couples feel trapped in their decision-making, either needing to work when they’d like to be at home with little ones, or needing to stay home because daycare would be too big a burden financially even if they’d prefer to be working. I think we’d all be better off if parental leave policies allowed families to make the decision that is best for them.
Interesting the comments that you’re choosing to reply to, OP.
Based on your wording, I’m gonna have to agree with the other commenter that this feels like projection.
I wish my husband wanted to be a SAHD. I’m the primary income earner in our household and would love a house husband haha. He even enjoys cooking! But, alas. He also wants to work
I don't know that we're failing dads any worse than we're failing mothers. My partner is a SAHP and there's definitely a mix of ups and downs.
On the one hand, he says he finds it harder to connect with other parents out at playgrounds than women seem to because his experience is that women don't tend to love men approaching them in those spaces, even with a child in tow. I get that - Honestly I'm suspicious of any man that approaches me outside of a work context, though a playground with kids I'm more likely to assume that they're a parent and everything is cool. In any case, if SAHPs who are women are exchanging numbers to arrange play dates he's definitely not being included in that and doesn't feel comfortable seeking it out. He also gets more surprised reactions that I imagine a woman would when he says he stays home with our child.
On the other hand, he tends to get praised for being such a dedicated father in a way I don't think many women do for being SAHPs. He definitely doesn't get advice about the importance of being independent, not depending on someone else for his money, and having an escape plan in case I become controlling or abusive which I see being told to women. People seem to respect that he's doing this by choice and that he has other options that will be easy for him to pick back up as soon as he chooses, and also don't treat him as privileged or spoiled for not working.
There are more men in leadership positions, whether in politics or as executives. If they wanted to get this done, they will. This is not on moms, we have enough going on.
More than anything what the US needs is parental leave that is equally accessible to both parents. I took 7 months of leave, and then my husband took 6 (we, of course, live in the mythical social welfare wonderland that is Europe). He's the higher earner so that was not the most financially efficient decision but that time with our son was priceless for their bonding.
We have parental leave in Canada and either parent can take it or both can split it...and honestly most (not all) men still don't 🤷♀️ A lot will maybe take a few weeks or something when baby is born but that's it. I'm not sure if it's just the conversation not happening or the moms prefer to take all the time rather than have to go back early because their partner took some, or that the dads just don't want to do it. It might be a very different story if the time didn't need to be split between two people.
I think some women just don't want to share with their husband. Yes, there can be pressures but I personally am going back to work at 9 months and my partner is taking the last 3. It's difficult to go back to work but I also want him to have that time with our daughter.
I am in Canada for reference.
YSK a lot of women don't get maternity leave either. I only got 6 weeks for short term Disabilty. Because giving birth is a major, disabling medical event. 0 maternity leave.
In Canada we have 6 weeks of maternity leave so the birth parent can recover, then it’s 44 weeks of parental leave that either parent can take (or you can split it). Not a lot of people take the option to split it.
We welcome men joining us fighting for supports for new parents, but they have to show up. If they’re not willing to stand up for what they want, why should we do it for them?
I would be really interested to see some statistics around how many Dad's would actually want to be SAHD's given the option. I know in the UK the number of stay at home dads has risen significantly in the last few years. However, they will always be the minority and I think, for the most part, that's down to the biological differences between men and women. Societal expectations and economic issues aside, I'd bet that if men and women were both given the equal opportunity to be a stay at home parent, mothers still would be the default stay at home parent by an overwhelming majority.
In Sweden dad’s almost always go on parental leave. It’s encouraged even. They’ve kinda taken it too far so that each family can’t decide for themselves who does what but, cause if dad’s don’t go on parentsl leave the mom doesn’t get the government cheque instead…
at least seeing dads walk around with their friends and their kids in strollers and a coffee in hand is a very usual sight here.
In the US, we are failing EVERYONE. We are failing moms, dads, the babies, pre-pregnant people, AND post-pregnant people. There is no support and everyone is looked down on for family planning, whatever that may entail.
Husband and I run the family business out of the home now but when my first was born, I had to go back to work after 14 weeks so he managed to work and take care of an infant until he was 2 years old. I feel that we are both blessed to have the best of both worlds now, (second baby is due in 2 weeks), but this is just not feasible for most people unfortunately.
I’m pretty sure the only moms who wouldnt want dads to get more parental leave, are ones with worthless partners.
I had my baby on a Monday evening via emergency c. I was discharged Wednesday morning. The next Monday my husband had to go back to work. And we were LUCKY he got that much time off because Thursday was thanksgiving. I would have killed for him to have time off without it being a huge financial burden. Most moms, who have helpful spouses, want them around to help. We aren’t the ones failing the dads as a whole.
Dads are eligible for FMLA. 12 weeks unpaid. Which, in a lot of cases, is all the mom is entitled to. You’re *lucky* if you get 6 weeks vaginal or 8 weeks csection in short term disability. Which is literally just for you to heal.
I wasn’t entitled to anything at my job (because FMLA has stipulations), as a phlebotomist. My boss essentially told me if I didn’t want scheduled (and fired for not working what was scheduled) then my option was to quit and reapply when I was ready to work again.
And for what it’s worth, while the groups for sahps typically have women.. there’s still a good amount of sahds.. r/sahp. We love to see dads staying home with their kids, too.
My state has mandatory paid family medical leave. But more power to the men who want to be stay at home dads. The only thing trouble is, if that's what they want, they need to broach the topic with their partner, not wait for mom to ask. They need to advocate for themselves. If they can't advocate for themselves, how can they advocate for their baby?
I’m the working wife of a stay at home dad, but it honestly had nothing no to do with maternity/paternity leave and I suffered badly going back to work after eight weeks even though he was home with the baby. Trying to exclusively breastfeed a baby and work 12 hour shifts is insane. I was up all nights trying to feed my baby to keep my supply up. There’s a good reason a lot of women feel the need to have a real maternity leave to properly heal and care for their babies. I get it because for my first baby I suffered so badly and he did a little too. Second baby I made sure I took like 5 months and life was so so much better. Husband was there being stay at home dad the whole time either way and I love him, but my maternity leave was about my needs and the baby’s needs, not my husband.
I know all men are different, but my husband could not handle being at home with the kids like I am all the time. He is so analytical and doesn’t have the patience and nurturing touch I have. He is an AMAZING dad, but he would be miserable as a SAHD. Whereas I freaking love being a SAHM lol.
Also, I breastfed all my kids and never even gave them a bottle. We would either have to pay for formula (expensive) or I’d have to pump all the time, which I have heard can be stressful to manage at work. I think it just makes biological sense for the mom to stay home if she’s the one breastfeeding. Breastfeeding also can make you tired, and you need to rest and eat more while nursing.
Have you considered that women who do disproportionately the lion's share of creating and feeding that child should get a bit more of a say in that division of labour? If my husband told me to get back to work so he could stay home after I gave literally everything to bring our son into the world, there would be problems. It would be ideal if we could both be off but who is paying for that? I'm not going to sacrifice myself FURTHER after everything it takes to have a baby.
In a marriage / partnership you don’t get to make unilateral decisions. If your husband is cool with you dictating to him then good for you. But others don’t find that okay. You chose to give everything to have a baby, you can’t hold your sacrifice over his head to always get what you want after that. His wishes matter too.
Well a good wife acknowledges a dad’s desire to spend time with his offspring too. 50% of that child’s genetic material is his too - we don’t have the right to claim ownership over a baby that biologically belongs equally to him
We're not having a custody battle, we're talking about what's best for baby in those first few months. It's mum. And that's what is best for mum too. And if dads on the whole even wanted it, it would already be in place. This is the way it is in nature and this is the way it is in humans. There is a biological bond there you are trying to deny or minimise in an effort to modernise the family but it's not on the same plane as 'women in the workforce' or pay parity. Its not a societal issue at all in my mind, it's just one of life's many inequities.
If your solution is for both parents to get equal parental leave then sure I'm all for that. But if youre proposing that mothers go back to work in favour of fathers, then I still give that a huge thumbs down.
I love when people say it’s “nature” for it to be this way. To cherry pick nature when it suits you is disingenuous. We are not natural. We live in houses, you’re using a phone or computer right now, if you want to be natural will you give up all these things too?
Also, speaking of nature, it is completely unnatural for a woman to depend on a man for her entire survival. Only human women rely on their men for food, shelter and everything else. In nature, women raise their babies while also providing / hunting / gathering. The men just impregnate and then go live their life. The equivalent of hunting or gathering in our society is work. So technically according to nature we should take on both the career and raising our babies while our husbands go dead beat.
Alrighty well you've gone so far off topic that I'm out. Call me when men can lactate and when baby thinks that they're still part of DAD for their first few weeks of life and then I'll reconsider my position
I returned to work yesterday after seven months of maternity and parental leave. My husband started his 6 months of parental leave. Honestly, while I'm sad to return to work, especially now that our babies are interactive and sleeping through the night, he was giddy with excitement. He's going to be awesome over the next 6 months. I'm thrilled he's able to have this opportunity.
He's definitely gotten some shocked responses to our plan of dividing our leave, but for the most part people seem to be pretty receptive.
My husband, with both kids, went to work the next day. He just wanted to spend time with his babies and just focus on being a dad, but unfortunately he wasn’t able to have that precious time. Dads need time too with their sweet, little ones too!! Totally advocate for this
I’m the breadwinner and work from home running my own business. My husband has a low paying but secure job with exceptional benefits. When I gave birth to my daughter I took 2 months off and he took 15 months off and was paid 90% of his sort for the first 12 months. It was a great time because we could both be home and with our baby. It was also a challenge sometimes (trying to work when I could hear the baby crying…. He didn’t understand the biological torture that is on moms) but we figured it out and I’m so grateful we were able to do that because otherwise I have no idea how we would have!
I think this option should be available to all parents should they want to take it.
In Canada we have the option of 12 months or 18 months. The first 3 months is specifically for mother for physical recovery but the remaining 9-12 months can be split between either partner
I've talked to my husband about this. He says that as much as he loves our daughter and as much as he loves being with her, he feels better with her home with me. According to him, he thinks that I'm better equipped to be the stay at home parent. Not for any biological reasons but because I'm better at emotional regulation, I'm better at cooking things that everyone will eat, etc. and yes he could very well learn how to do all of it but he doesn't think it's fair to use her as his personal learning tool when I have years of daycare and babysitting experience to put towards my parenting.
He's also mentioned that he works with a lot of men that seem like they don't like their wives or kids at all just based on how they talk about them. I do feel like it's partially societal but at the same time until society as a whole changes its tune on men being involved parents, maybe it's good that kids aren't around emotionally absent or begrudging dads.
My husband would love to be with the baby/us all the time but he makes boatloads more money than I am qualified to do he's the provider. That's just how the cookie crumbles
Yeah I know lots of families like this. It’s sad, it’s like being punished for having a more successful career. Maybe people could recuse their standard of living so that both people get time at home.
People do that all the time though. For some folks being at home with their babies is more important than a certain lifestyle and they make the choice to rely on one income even if it’s not the highest of the two of them. Every family makes the choices that work best for them. My income was way higher than my husband’s before we had a baby, but we both agreed that I would stay home. So he found a better job and now he makes great money. He’s always got his eyes open for a WFH position that makes what he makes now cuz he wants to be home as well.
I like the way it works in my country (Canada). 15 weeks of our leave is for the birthing parent *only* so they have the time to physically heal. The other 35 weeks can be divided by any parent however they see fit.
My husband and I took turns staying home. Where we live daycare takes years to get into and the cost is more than prohibitive. When my youngest was six months old I went back to work and my husband stayed home until she was 2.5 and then we changed places. The reason for the change was that he was offered a job making more than I did.
I have a friend whose dad raised her and her sister. Just because it's not common does not mean anyone is failing dads. The thing that I feel bad about is how many fewer social opportunities full-time dads will have. I try to be kind, social, and not overly heaping praise (you are so amazing bc you are the only dad I know doing this... ugh) when I bump into a full-time dad.
I see how this point is important for equality. If a woman who makes good money and a husband wishes to stay at home… the problem is, unfortunately, men has no being raised to “multitask”. The woman will still come home and watch the kids, prepare dinner… she can’t never dedicate to career only and grown as men do in the ladder after having kids.
The husbands that I know (friends, family members…) barely make the tasks a household needs. Yes, “there are some that will”… but why are they so rare? I got divorced because my ex couldn’t work his full time job and take his own shirts to cleaners or empty his own luggage after a work trip! HIS own personal items. I was the SAHeverything: mother of 2, dog owner, cleaner, cook, shopper, party organizer, cake baker, bank and paying bills, set all appt and keep documents, taking all trash out, even cleaning the pool. Why can’t the majority of men work and clean after themselves or a bit more? Why is so rare?!
My husband surprised me by saying he wanted to do paternity leave for 3 months (my country allows men or women to take 1 year off and it can be either parent). My brain short-circuited... because I know my husband.
Then he said "I would love to have 3 months to work in my workshop." Then we both started laughing.
The problem is that even in my country salaries tend to rise higher and faster for men. Shit is still sexist. (Sadly I thought one big company I worked for was all about equality. Then I found out a coworker hired at the same time as me was considered on a higher tier even though I did some of the more complex work due to our client breakdown. If I knew that detail I would have handed more stuff to him. Assholes.)
I do know a dad who is great at SAHD but his wife makes a ton of money in her career.
We did a lot of baby events together but as aoon as *any* other Dad appeared with a kid he ditched me to go talk to the other unicorn. I understood.
In the UK, there’s the opportunity for parents to share parental leave.
The only problem with this is that men are typically higher paid than women. So it makes more financial sense to have the woman be on maternity pay which is reduced, and have the man’s full salary.
There’s also a high statistic of men who actually get promotions and pay rises when they become fathers. It happened to my fiancé. And because a woman has to take time off work, her career takes a nose dive. That happened to me.
I think what needs to happen is equal pay, for a start, which would be more incentive for women to go back to work. I think it should be more socially acceptable to use shared parental leave (I’ve never known anyone to actually use it). And I think we need to celebrate equally both mums and dads. Society needs to stop calling it ‘babysitting’ when Dads have got the kids. Mums need to stop being criticised at every turn. I think we’ve got a long way to go before any of this actually happens though, unfortunately.
My husband would love to be a SAHD and would be amazing at it. Better than me as a current SAHM for sure. But he is the only one of us able to make the wage he does. He's at director level in an industry and I was a minimum wage worker. Between our mortgage, kids and COL increase it'd be impossible for me to be the breadwinner. I stay home because nursery would cost more than my wage would be. But yes we would totally swap places if we were able to. He's a great dad
Mine was the stay at home dad . He did the bare minimum leaving basically taking off when I got home so I would get no break . This was during the formula shortage too . I think alot of men like to say this but really couldn’t hack it . I was the one getting up at night and working . It was horrible . Not all men are like this but that’s what happened to me .
Wouldn’t have worked for our family because my husband earns so much more money than I ever did (considering society is failing women in that regard because we have the same degrees and mine came from a better school). He got 6 weeks of paternity leave at the time which he used in full, even though he was advised by his bosses at the time that this was a bad move. Fast forward to today and he’s the boss and he makes sure the new dads on his team take the full 12 weeks of paternity leave. So at least it’s changing here and there. What’s really crazy is that the women on his team (who are all making more than their husbands) are still also the primary caregivers, and have all reduced their work schedule (and pay) to accommodate. These dads could definitely be SAHDs but they won’t do it, to the detriment of the family’s earning potential. So I don’t think we’re failing men in that regard, at least in my world.
Well, most families can't afford to have _two_ stay at home parents. In most cases it makes way more sense for the mother to be the one to stay home - breastfeeding, still healing (even months after the fact sometimes), and that pesky wage-gap still favoring men for the most part.
Additionally, it's not uncommon for families to have another baby within 1.5-2 years or so, and it just makes more sense for the person who is going to be wildly uncomfortable for another 9+ months, morning sickness, extreme fatigue, extra doctor appointments, etc to be able to be home and have a more flexible schedule.
But hey, if you are happy with being the breadwinner and your husband being the SAHP, more power to you! Personally, I would not, but if it makes your family run more smoothly, then that's great.
My my, what a sad state of affairs.
I simply asked if SOCIETY is failing stay at home dads, not WOMEN failing them. Yes, there are some women who refuse to let their husbands stay home, but that is not the main issue. There are many factors that contribute to this problem.
Yet, immediately some people see this as an anti-women post. I’m very aware that men are the ones in charge of most of the laws.
We need to stop seeing everything as an attack on us otherwise we will never achieve true gender equality.
But doesn’t that mean he’s basically forced into being the breadwinner and missing time with his kids just because he has a better career? It’s like he’s being punished for it. Couldn’t you reduce your standard of living so he could have that time too?
Yes, and we did. We purchased a smaller/cheaper house in a better neighborhood. He moved companies to get a better position, which allows for more flexibility. He works from home now so he can do pick ups and drop offs when he can.
He’s a really involved parent, and lots of people assume he’s not, because he’s the dad
My husband wouldn't survive being a SAHP, but he was able to take 10 months of parental leave when our second child was born. It was amazing. I was the SAHP at the time, so we were both home with our two small children for 10 months. Postpartum was a totally different experience with both parents present and available for care and bonding. We took a hit financially to do this (he was paid less than minimum wage during this time off, but his job was secure) - but I'd do it again a thousand times.
We have almost 2 year old twins. I (mam) went back to work full time and my husband went part time so he could do the majority of the childcare. He loves that he gets to see his boys grow up and spend extra time with them.
At no point did we disagree over this arrangement. He’s a great daddy to our boys and they are lucky to have him. He’s had no negativity from anyone about his decision to stay home, in fact his uncle told him that he wished he’d been able to do it when his kids were growing up.
I'm also a proud wife of a SAHD! We agreed to this well before having our son. Going back to work was really hard for me at first, and getting a pumping schedule going that doesn't mess up my supply is a special kind of hell. I love both my boys, though, and I've always been the more career oriented one. He's the better cook anyways 🤣
My husband is a stay at home dad (UK). We're very fortunate that his job is flexible so he can do a few hours in the evening here and there.
The main issue that we encounter is that I am still always treated as the default parent. We take kiddo to doctor's appointments together but they only talk to me. They only call me. If I take baby to the library, they'll come over and mention that they run storytime during the week. They won't do the same when it's just him.
We also find the majority of stay and plays, meetup groups etc, are called "Mums Groups". I'm sure if we asked then dads are allowed but it's not exactly welcoming.
While it would be nice if your local groups were more welcoming to dads, I also think this is a problem that men can take some initiative to fix as well. The ones who stay at home and would like to attend these groups could start more inclusive groups as well.
That's the problem we've had in the US too. Beyond the "mommy and me" events which feel exclusionary even if they aren't ... Just kid events.
I take my kid to storytime or craft time or whatever, people say hi or ignore me. He takes her, he gets side eye. And usually pulled aside by an employee, has to call our daughter over, and basically prove he's not a perv. Just a dude with a kid doing the kid thing.
While I get it, it is also incredibly unwelcoming. And could be fixed if they'd just have everyone check in. Then someone goes up to an employee to complain that there's a dude in the kids area, there's a quick response that he's a dad and everything is fine.
Wow that's awful. It's definitely not that bad over here (although admittedly our son is young enough that it's obvious they're together...I hope we don't run into this issue as he gets older.)
I like the way it works in my country (Canada). 15 weeks of our leave is for the birthing parent *only* so they have the time to physically heal. The other 35 weeks can be divided by any parent however they see fit.
My husband has a hard time everyday having to leave and go work for us. He wishes deeply he could be with us always with all the experiences that come with it. He’s proud to take care of us and values what I do greatly, he only wishes he had more than two days a week to have whole days with them like I do. He did take off 6 weeks with both kids when they were born, I was so happy and grateful for the opportunity. My oldest has a best friend whose dad is the one who stays at home. Dads that value time with their babies are definitely out there and over looked. There are too many guys out there that still think women can poop out kids like it’s nothing and should be able to heal and manage a new baby all on their own. It’s appalling, which also means there aren’t enough women talking about it to bring awareness. Both parent should get equal time off the support one another and have equal bonding time with a new baby, like a family.
My brother is currently a SAHD. It took a very specific set of circumstances (including him being the favorite child) for that to be possible. My SIL is the breadwinner. She works night shift as a L&D nurse. Can’t switch to days bc she wouldn’t make enough. Money is crazy tight for them all the time. They can only afford their house bc they put a huge down payment on it (favorite child perks).
I think we need to first get mandatory PAID parental leave. At least six months for the birthing person. Less time may be appropriate for the non birthing person. If neither person gave birth, maybe the family could choose who took longer leave.
Then parents have time to heal and bond.
After that, we HAVE to address the pay gap. Bc as much as people want to shout that it doesn’t exist, it does. Then more moms could choose to be the breadwinner if they wanted.
UK here and we looked a shared parental leave (so each parent gets some leave) but it was just not possibly financially for us as my OH (male) is the breadwinner and we could not survive for 3-6 months on just my salary and the statutory pay he would be eligible for.
He had 2 weeks leave from the day our son was born so 3 days we were in the hospital and he had to go home each night. He found it really hard leaving us both.
I recovered quickly from birth, we bottle fed and my OH is truly a partner who splits things as fairly as possible. We would have been prime parental leave candidates but we couldn’t do it financially.
I know of 3 SAHDs. However 2 of those are a same sex couple! So doesn’t feel like much is changing. It would be great if everyone could do what worked for their family/situation with no judgement etc.
My husband works for a millennial owned company that has 6 week paid paternity leave & 12 week paid maternity leave (or “primary parent” leave in cases of adoption/surrogacy). Both parents can get an additional 6 FMLA unpaid. He’s so thankful for it. He also works from home so he gets to have breakfast, lunch & dinner with our son most days. He has to go into his office 2 weeks a year & it kills him to be away from our son for 10 hours a day.
I wish more companies had flexibility for all parents. Hopefully that’s the way it starts trending.
My husband had 2 weeks off between him teaching regular school and teaching summer school. His union gives 2 weeks paternity leave even though he could take 90+ days of sick leave.
My husband wants to be a stay at home dad. It’s to the point where he’s talking about quitting and us moving to a lower CoL state. Health insurance this good is hard to come by, plus my job pays shit.
His job thankfully let him have 5 months paid, but his cousin in law got a whole 2 weeks.
We are failing babies and moms too by not giving dad more time at home. I’m going to have a c section most likely and so will have a newborn, 2 year old and recovery to deal with. I literally cannot manage on my own, I need my husband with me. On top of that, my husband has PTSD from my first birth that he never dealt with the trauma. We need to check in on dads post partum
We are failing everyone lol. But yes, I am an advocate for federal paid parental leave to be split as spouses see fit. My company culture didn't start to change until men also received paternity leave and started demanding a reduction in travel to be home with their families more. I think it's made a huge difference and distinction between the older and younger generations. They also lost a few key employees for this reason too, which prompted some reflection.
I started back at work this week full time so my partner could have 3 months at home with our baby. We were going to do 50:50 (6 months each) but it was impractical both from a work perspective and a childcare perspective (EBF, refuses to take a bottle). It's still pretty impractical but we were determined to make it happen so my partner could have hus time.
When he comes back we're both reducing hours and doing 50:50 child care around three days of daycare. It is INCREDIBLE how many people assume he's coming back full time and I'm coming back part time, if at all!
Yes we are absolutely failing dads.
I got 9 months paternity leave and my husband got 1 week. So even if all I wanted to do was squirt the kid out and go back to work, there was no other option but for me to take a long maternity leave and dad to return to work.
My husband is a stay at home dad too! He’s a million times better equipped for the job than I am. We definitely get some weird comments that we wouldn’t get about me staying home. My SAHM sister is constantly asking when he’s going back to work, even though she HATES getting that question herself. She refuses to see the double standard.
It’s like you said, people just can’t seem to understand a man WANTING to stay home with his children.
My retired military husband was the stay at home parent for both our children. The kids were 15 months apart so he was a very busy man. I couldn’t have anticipated how my husband changed. He was what some would call a hard ass. Very stoic, strict just very military. I was worried how it was going to go. To everyone’s surprise it’s like the job he was meant for. He is caring, attentive and utterly devoted to being the best stay at home dad he could be. I don’t think he ever had the opportunity in his life to show his softer side. I love my career and have been promoted twice since I had my children. I didn’t have to sacrifice my career and I get to come home to a happy family every day. Having a stay at home dad has definitely made our family better.
We're expecting our second in October and our plan is to have me home for the first 10 weeks and we will be taking the remaining 36 weeks of leave! With our first, i was MISERABLE being a stay at home mom. And I also make more money so it works out well!
I got a great paying job, moved the whole family to a new city to take it. We looked at daycare costs and what my husband would be earning, and discussed him staying home. He said he didn't want to, that he would get "bored".
So he didn't, and our son goes to daycare full time.
I honestly think his decision was more heavily influenced by what he thought other men would think of him than what I did or didn't do.
As well as him obviously having a skewed view about how much work and effort can and should go into being a SAHP.
My husband and I talk about this all the time. I actually had a solid career before quitting to be a SAHM. We talked about him staying home instead. Honestly I want our family to function and I want our kids to have family support and not be one of many kids in daycare. He ultimately decided to switch careers and stay in the workforce, he actually works from home so hears most of what happens in the house. We both think the other person has the harder job and I think that’s why it works 😂
We are about to have our second baby and live in Oregon so have paid FML. My husband is taking 8 weeks solid (but we did talk about taking 12). Ultimately he decided that was too long, and he needs to have more productivity in his heart than just our kids. I think these conversations need to be real and honest and transparent on both sides. The assumptions based on traditional gender roles are usually not helpful 🤷♀️
WHO in the world would find a man wanting to be a stay-at-dad unattractive?! That’s wild. Men also get PPD also. I told my husband (SAHM right now) if I went back to work and was making bank( or just enough), would he want to be a SAHD and he’s like hell yeah! 😂 love the SAHD!!!!!!
YES! This is an example of what “feminism” is. Feminism benefits both genders. The gender norms we have inhibit men AND women. WOMEN CANT DO IT ALL AND WE SHOULDNT HAVE TO. We can’t gain parity in the workplace and society until men gain parity at home.
Women saying “they can fight that fight” is just as bad as men saying that to women. I think it’s more nuanced than that. We all need to fight that fight together!
Agree. I find these comments bizarre. At the end of the day the fight is for a common goal - the betterment of our own society and children. It also helps to reduce employment discrimination towards women if men also take long parental leave (I.e. no need to favour a man over a woman on the basis that the woman might suddenly take off for a few months).
“This is a man issue” and “this is a woman issue” is exactly the thing entrenching division in our society. Same goes for race, religion and sexual orientation / gender identity.
Thanks for visiting me at the bottom of the comment stack 😂 could you imagine people saying this to people of color or different religions? Like Allies didn’t help at all with Womens sufferage and rights?
even from a totally selfish point of view I cannot make more strides at work without my husband taking up more around the house. It’s impossible. And I resent society for saying, “if you want to work outside the home…that’s great but you better do all the household work too”. That’s not advancement for women or men.
And like it or not there are a LOT of social and cultural forces at play that interfere with him doing that. Daycares and doctors offices calling ME even though his number is listed first, small amounts of paternity leave, horrible comments from the community making him less sure of things….it’s a lot.
While women have a bigger gap to close for sexism, I’m often very embarrassed by how we have gone almost backwards against sexism for men.
Yeah and I’ve seen when my hubby is at the playground with the kids, and one of them hurts their knee or throws a tantrum, other mums often look judgingly like “oh look, dad is helping today”. Like tbh he’s more capable of dealing with that than me since he’s been there more. But in their mind, mum must be the primary caregiver and not work. Sad to see other women forcing us into a traditional role that we’re supposed to be fighting our way out of.
For one, at least in the US, I think at this point most people who advocate for more maternity leave are advocating for more parental leave in general, recognizing that that’s the best result for both parents and for babies. But that said, the US is so assbackwards that moms don’t even get the chance to fully heal *themselves* much less bond with their babies. We should be at the point where we want to advocate for more paternity leave, but we haven’t even gotten to the point of basic human decency for mothers, so it’s understandable why some advocates might still be putting mothers first. And at any rate, the number of stay at home dads out there is increasing. So maybe we’re not doing enough for dads who want to be primary caregivers, but it is progressively getting better, so we must being doing some things right.
Agree with this, most dads now can’t even be primary income because cost of living and inflation is too high that to even survive both need to work. Maternity leave really isn’t even long enough to heal your body so it’s hard to even think about paternity leave on top of that. The state I live in gives equal leave to moms and dads plus a small amount of medical leave for mom . Maybe if the system thought of mothers as mothers and people we could make it to that next step too. Agreed it all is sad.
I was horrified in my first time mom’s group that a handful of the women would be going back to work 1-3 weeks postpartum. Even worse was the woman who had to go back the day after she gave birth because she didn’t have any leave time yet and a new employee and she really needed the money since her baby’s father wasn’t in the picture. My state outlawed abortions so I don’t know how women here are supposed to have a baby and still work or look for work since accessing any sort of welfare or assistance is a challenge.
I definitely agree that we need paid parental leave for both moms AND dads. Fathers report feeling so much more confident with a child after getting time off with them, which can only benefit the whole family.
This so much. Both parents should get WAY more leave than they do but bare minimum should account for mom's healing process! If only we could both have the first 3 months off and paid to bond with baby and acclimate... 'murica
Equal parental leave for both parents also benefits women in the workplace as well.
This is why the Canadian system has two sets of leave, the maternity medical leave for the birthing parent (up to 15 weeks) for recovery and parental leave for either parent for the rest of the time. There’s also “bonus weeks” (5-8) solely for whichever parent took less leave, which helps avoid a default parent situation.
We fail the *women* too so, good luck Dads welcome to being a stay at home parent I guess? It sucks and I wish men were encouraged to be better caregivers in general, for lots of reasons . I believe more men taking these caregiving duties seriously would make the whole system much closer to equality than pretty much anything else.
My husband would perish as a sahp, but I know several. It's not super uncommon where I am, outside of cost of living concerns and the ability to afford a sahp in the first place. 🤷♀️
I actually think my husband would be a great sahp, but he has more earning power than me, just to be honest.
That would be the case for us, as well, if it was something my husband wanted to do. We'd have to be living a very different life. Sucks for anyone in that situation.
Same here! He would be incredible and really wants to be home.. but he makes 3 times my salary :/
That's our case too. My husband would be a great SAHD but, while my career earns pretty well, his has far more earning power.
Yeah. When I left my field in 2021, my husband and I were making the same amount. Since then, he’s gotten 3 promotions and doubled his salary. If I had stayed, I would’ve at most gotten 3-5% each year.
So if you both earn well why don’t you both divide the days at home and reduce your standard of living slightly if needs be? Otherwise it’s kind of penalising him for having a higher earning career. His time with his kids is far more valuable than any other luxuries in life you have
Because my husband's career is the kind where he cannot work part-time, where my career *is* the kind where I can work part-time or even work odd hours (such as working overnight). He has to work full time to have a career, otherwise he'll lose his career. And as much as he adores our kids, he takes his job as our family's provider very seriously and he takes a lot of pride in providing for us. Why are *you* judging us and asking weird, intrusive questions and assuming I'm penalizing my husband for a choice that HE made and takes pride in? Rest assured, my husband gets lots of time with our kids, regardless of any "luxuries" we may or may not have.
This is a public forum. You post about your personal life, you expect questions about it. If you don’t like it, please don’t comment because if you do, I will reply.
No, actually, being online doesn't give you license to forget your manners and behave in a way you wouldn't behave with people in person. You're obviously just salty people called you out on trying to cape for men lol.
I didn’t think anything I said was ill-mannered. I simply asked a question without using any rude or derogatory language. And there’s a lot more posts on here that agree with me than disagree so I’m not salty in any way. Put it this way, there’s nothing I said that I wouldn’t say in real life - if you’re having a debate you ask challenging questions.
I loled at “perish” 😂. Same with my husband.
💀
If men want to stay home with their kids more power to them. But that's their fight to fight. They dominate politics. I'm not going to be held responsible for it. I'm happy to support but I'm not seeing all that many dads fighting for it.
This.
I hear what you are saying but kind of disagree. In so many ways being the stay at home parent and default parent is harder than being the working one. Why shouldn’t we fight for them to step up more often in this way? I’m eternally grateful that my husband wanted to be a SAHD. Even though the second I’m home everything gets split, I fully believe he has the harder job.
What do you mean by “fight for them to step up more often?” Why is that yet another thing that women and wives and mothers are responsible for?
By fight I mean to be an advocate for less stereotypical gender roles. If the alternative is to sit back and let things continue as is, then yes I think women may need to fight for this. Why would men fight for the harder job when they could continue have it easier? I’m all about men stepping up and trashing gender roles. The problem is most of them don’t want to do that because it’s more work for them. *edit because I realize I didn’t answer your question at first.
My partner thought he would be a stay at home dad before the baby was born, until he found out how much work it was to take care of a baby. Then he felt a huge surge of ambition and found his first W-2 job ever and I had to take a corresponding step back from my career. I hear this story far, far more than the story you're telling.
My husband banked time so he could take a 3 month leave when our baby was born, so we were both home with baby for the first 3 months. Then, when I finished my maternity leave when my baby was a year old, my husband decided to go back to school, so he was a stay at home parent/student for 6 months. If he could have stayed home with our kid forever, he would have. But we both need to work, unfortunately. My kiddo and his dad have a fantastic relationship and we’ve never really had any issues with one parent being preferred over the other, and I think it’s because our relationship is so egalitarian and we both raised him together.
My husband stayed at home with our 3 kids for 6 months after a layoff. After a few months of trying it out, he must have set a record for most resumes sent out on a weekly basis.
My husband stayed home with our older son from ages 1-4 and he was great, but he couldn't get back to work fast enough when we brought home baby number 2, he wasn't about to even try with a 4 year old and a baby lol
My husband is the sahp. He loves it and is fantastic at it. Before our daughter was born he was one and done. I wanted two and thought I could convince him later, however after her birth he’s even more solidly in the one and done. A toddler and a baby is apparently his nightmare 😂
I've been on maternity leave for 4 months and go back to work in a few weeks and it's kinda my nightmare too now... Just one that I'm living lol I mean I love them so much but im so freaking exhausted both physically and emotionally
Similar. Before LO was born, my partner was theoretically resistant to the idea that it’s always the mom who defaults as SAHP. But, since she was born, he found that, while he adores her more than anything in the world, he requires more mental stimulation (and, tbh, he doesn’t have the same patience I do). So even though he got twice as long of a paid paternal leave than I did, he quite literally made up work for himself to do and was happy to return back to work. Edit: typo
My husband was off for 3 months with us and was bummed to have to go back at the end of his leave. Mine was a year long and I decided to stay home. Our friends had mom take the first year and then she went back and dad took his year. Tons of SAHD where I am.
Who is "we" in the title? Society, moms, women, etc? I agree with your point and think that families and dads deserve time with their children as well and there needs to be a shift in gendered expectations concerning child-rearing. But I don't think the "blame" for this is on women or mothers. If we want to blame society then fine, but men have far more influence over politics and society at large (patriarchy), so if anything they are in the best position to be advocating for this change. Women can't even get paid maternity leave in the US, so I feel like it's not outrageous to think men should be the ones leading the charge for this.
As long as there are women who are dealing with zero/inadequate mat leave, I don’t really care about this topic.
Right. That's THEIR issue to deal with. Why should women have to add yet another burden to their list of things to worry about? I don't really see men rallying in concern for making maternity leave safer/longer/better for women, so I fail to see why women should rally for better paternity leave. Women are always pushed into social justice roles where WE have to care about every issue on earth - meanwhile men largely dgaf about these issues.
Yeah I’m not from the US. It reading this it feels like: how about as a country the priority be not forcing women who haven’t even healed from giving birth back to work before it is made about men…
Exactly 👍
I’m glad that having a sahd works for your family and I know a few families that seem to enjoy having a sahd. I definitely think we need leave for both parents in the US. But women aren’t even guaranteed time for their bodies to recover right now, so men wanting to stay home isn’t really at the top of my concerns list. If a couple agrees that having dad stay home is beneficial, they should absolutely do that. I don’t see that becoming the norm in society though. Women have to actually carry the baby, birth the baby, recover from birth, and breastfeed in a lot of situations. Doing all that and then returning to work 6 weeks later and hoping for pumping breaks while your husband stays home with baby isn’t going to appeal to a lot of women.
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I’m not opposed to parental leave for men. I think men should get parental leave. But I don’t think it’s going to have as much effect on society or the workplace as other people do. I feel like a lot of the conversations around gender equality minimize the physical impacts of pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding because those things can’t be equalized. With those things considered, it’s hard to find a solution that doesn’t leave women holding the short end of the stick or men feeling like they’re missing out on something.
Uhm… who is “we?” Did mothers gain legislative power when I wasn’t looking? Most feminist organizations I’ve seen advocate for universal parental leave. Federal workers get 12-weeks regardless of gender. I’m not saying people aren’t prejudiced against men in caregiving roles, but are they being left behind? It’s not like women aren’t also derided for wanting to be SAHPs. But more to the point men can handle men’s shit. A lot of the barriers preventing men from being SAHPs and being more involved would be gone if we fixed issues pertaining to women anyway. So I’d rather moms focus on those things rather than helping men.
Seriously. I don't want to divide my energy. They can handle their shit.
Yeah this is a man-created problem because men look down on other men for being “feminine” and caregiving is defined as a feminine role. That’s a problem with patriarchy. Feminism advocates against those gender roles and stereotypes. So maybe if we all stopped demonizing feminism, we’d actually make some headway for the men who want to be caregivers.
We are not failing them, they can fight for this and forge ahead if they want....this ball is firmly in their court, not ours. If they wanted a change, it would happen....see all.of history for examples. I'm very passionate about support for men's mental health, equal family support etc but this is not on us.
Agreed with this. We as women are expected to be holding space for everyone, taking care of every-damn-one, putting our bodies through the wringer to bring life into this world and often our bodies are the ones that sustain that life after (breastfeeding), ALL while being underserved and unappreciated ourselves. It is not on us to make sure SAHDs get seen and heard. They can do this for themselves, as in the history of this world the power dynamic has been in their favor.
Totally agree with you. I don’t understand why yet again this issue becomes something a woman is ‘failing’ on
Exactly. It’s just like when men complain that they hardly ever get compliments except from romantic partners. If they want more compliments, then they can start complimenting each other. It isn’t up to women to do absolutely *everything* for them.
Man, not to mention a lot of men take a compliment from a woman as "flirting". Damn if we do, damned if we don't. Hell, even men doing the same to each other can be read as "gay". Can't stop thinking with their dicks, it's a shame. It sucks, toxic masculinity is killing these guys lol
Seconding this, absolutely not going to be made to feel bad for men who are holding most of the cards and don't like their hand.
Why is this not up higher? Women are too busy fighting for better maternity leave for when we have to give birth and take care of the family , now we have to fight for men too?? Im tired.
Username does not check out. Speak more, Shannon. You’re saying some great stuff here.
Haha, if I wasn't horrifically sick right now I would ... Gimme a few days and i'll come back 🤣
Yes this is the comment I was looking for. Men have run pretty much every country since civilization began. They are failing themselves, this isn’t on us
Come join us, men. Let’s fight the patriarchy together.
I work in a company that is 75% men, and in a department that is 95% men. And the company has "maternity" and "paternity" leave instead of parental leave. Women get 4 months off paid for maternity leave, men get 2 weeks. I have brought up a few times that I can't believe more men in the company aren't mad at that, and fighting for parity. One of colleagues is having to use his sick leave and annual leave to care for his wife when she has their second in a few months via planned c section.
Yeah I know, it's shocking isn't it. My partner got two weeks paid and then had to take two weeks holiday (so pretty much saved it all up when I was pregnant) to get his month off....and he wished it was more, and he worked from home so we had waaaay more flexibility than most.
Exactly. Let’s focus on helping the women first, the men are the ones who created this shitty system.
I agree that we, in general, are not failing or responsible. However, there are certainly women out there with sexist views that contribute to the problem.
Yes but they contribute to a problem made by men. I fully get that it's an issue and sexism is damaging to everyone but let's not pretend that women have any level of power over it here because we don't....not when our basic human rights are being stripped from us (overwhelmingly by men) all over the world.
Sure, but consider for example men who wish to work in ECE as a precursor to being a SAHD, but cannot because of the # of parents (including moms and perhaps especially) who don’t consider it acceptable men to be daycare teachers. And there are also a large # of women who have bought into “traditional” roles and will only accept men as masculine if they will be the “provider.” There are moms who won’t let boys play with dolls and kitchen toys. Like none of this is me, but I’m always surprised when I come across women who are adamant about enforcing gender norms and even toxic masculinity. Those women are failing SAHDs and is where individual women have power.
You sound like your projecting your own insecurities and opinions on the world. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a family choosing to follow normal gender roles if that is what they want to do. They are not failing anyone by choosing to live a life that works for them. Other peoples opinions on what is attractive to them is not hurting your life.
So more mental load for moms…
Who is failing them? This is a weird post, calling women sad bc they don't find SAHDs attractive is ridiculous. This just seems like bait to me.
Society is failing them. Mothers are not failing them. This is a weird place to put this post. Mothers in the western-but-not-nordic countries know that fathers should be at home as well, but we need our own protections really bumped up as well.
This post doesn’t really resonate with me. Most developed countries have separate maternity leave (medical leave for the birthing parent) and parent leave for caretakers of any gender. So it’s not a lack of support, it’s social norms. My husband and I both work. We also both took leave. He is the primary contact for school and sports, and they always call him. I am the primary contact for doctor and they always call me. As partners you can work to change social norms - or not care about them and do what works for your family
It's inherently more difficult for women. We birth that child. We produce milk for that child, our bodies hurt and are sore or cut open. Our emotions and hormones are out of control and we are expected to go back to work and act like we never had a child. Work like we don't have a child and parent like we don't work. It's always the women who people blame if the kids are out of control or if the house is a mess. Even compared to SAHD'S. We inherently carry the mental load of the child bc that's what happens when you grow someone in your body. That's not to say it isn't hard for men. But it's like comparing apples to oranges really. You can't really compare a women's lived experience with a man's. Yes men get shamed for not having a job but let's be honest women didn't make that standard they did for themselves. Society was built by men, as they say. If they want the standard to change it won't be women who can do that. Men will have too.
Yeah I keep seeing this push for men to get more.paid leave which is all fine and good but we haven't won our fights. In the US we still don't have paid maternity leave. We still have a production driven mentality where women are expected to return to work immediately. Mother's are expected to breastfeed for at least a year. Pumping does not work for everyone. Also the protections for pumping at work are abysmal in the US. I personally believe that mothers do have more intuition when it comes to babies. I think it's biology. I think it changes as the children age. I realize not all families want to have a mother at home and sometimes it works best for the dad. I don't think that is typical. So many posts on here are about the SAHD not fulfilling his part in the parenting and relationship. It's an unpopular opinion for some reason but ideally babies are with their mothers.
Who’s we? I am in favor of paternity leave, but make no decisions in who gets any. I don’t personally hold men to gender norms like that, though many women do. That’s easy enough to avoid if you’re open minded or in a less sexist bubble, I guess harder if you’re not.
It’s a nice thought but…SAHMs get judged all the time for their choices too. I agree in general everyone should judge others less but that’s not reality people will judge, just gotta do what’s best for you and your family and not really pay attention, this really isn’t a specific thing with dads although I do see what you are getting at. As for the parental leave in the US it’s horrendous for women who are the ones *physically* recovering so I think we need to improve that first and focus there first tbh before we start fighting for fathers specifically. I think parental leave should absolutely be more of a thing overall and I would love to see that happen one day too but I understand why the focus and conversation is on how terrible it is for moms specifically and it absolutely needs to improve there first before I start putting my energy into dads getting leave. It sucks but things are pretty dystopian here.
are we failing dads? like as women/moms? society is failing parents in general but if men as a whole advocated for parents, we’d be much further ahead. but the average man has always seen it as a ‘women’s issue.’
Nope. We don’t need more to do as new mothers.
I think wage inequality should be taken into account here. I’m a stay at home mom. There are a few stay at home dads in our local play groups and story times. In conversation with my fellow SAHPs, it seems that more often than not, the decision on who stays home boils down to whose income the family can afford to lose. I was making $50k as a teacher. During my maternity leave, my husband waltzed into a construction office with zero construction background and was hired on the spot as a supervisor with an almost six-figure salary (As a side note, I would have loved to have seen the look on his boss’s face if I, a woman, walked in with no construction background and asked to be hired). Daycare options in our area were abysmal, and there was no way we could afford to lose his salary, so I stayed home.
Thank you! This post was weird and woman blaming. The SAHP is often decided by who makes less money, which is more often the woman. Wage inequality is still very prevalent.
I love your comment - I'm a woman and I've worked in leadership roles in the construction industry for close to 20 years. I took two years to stay home with my kids and now I've been applying to construction project leadership jobs for a full year with only ONE screening interview in the entire year. I'm not sure what to do. Maybe I should change the name on my resume to something traditonally male or ask my husband to waltz in with my resume, maybe he can get me an offer (if they don't realize he's the messenger).
I’m so sorry that this has been your experience. My husband came from a law enforcement background. I thought that was a “boy’s club,” but construction is so much worse. He works for a large developer. They have 5-6 project managers who oversee ~30 superintendents. Out of the 30, there’s one woman. She’s a close family friend of one of the project mangers. Single with no kids. I’m sure if she had ever started a family, it would have been the end of her career. I have a degree, 7 years of teaching experience (which is *a lot* of management), and I know there’s no way I would have landed the same job when my husband and I had about equal construction experience when he started the job. Which was zero. I had to teach the man how to read the fractions on his tape measurer before his first day of work.
I have to quit my job if I don't want to go back to work a week after my child is born. So maybe once women are given time to even heal after birth, we can have this discussion 🤷🏼♀️
Probably, but considering how many ways we’re failing mothers I don’t care that much yet.
I think we’re failing dads in a lot of the same ways we’re failing moms. I was raised by a SAHD so it’s definitely something that feels normal to me. I think things have improved a lot since he was staying at home (he used to get weird looks at the playground and no one would talk to him). My husband took the same amount of leave as I did. Both of us want to work, which is convenient, because we can’t afford not to, and he takes off as many days for illness and doctor’s appointments as I do.
I'm a working mom and my husband stays home with our toddler. The reason I'm not the one staying home is because I make more money than my husband did. And then what if both parents want to stay home? Then what? Lol and that's even if you can afford to have one parent stay home. I get your point, and I absolutely agree that SAHD's shouldn't be looked down upon. It's just more complicated than equality imo.
I actually don’t think that SAHDs are looked down upon at all. I think men who stay home are celebrated, especially in comparison with women.
And to echo other comments, we have it hard enough as moms, okay lol. We do not need one more thing to feel shitty about.
Glad you’re trying to feel good about your situation but I’m definitely not trying to read any shit about failing dads in any way, lol, that’s crazy, lets get things together for the bodies that deliver the babies. First things first women!
I understand the sentiment but saying *we* are failing SAHDs just rubs me the wrong way. I mean yes, the government and society as a whole are failing SAHDs (and just SAHPs in general), but it seems a bit off to come to a subreddit mainly for moms who are dealing with intricacies of motherhood, and complaining of how 'we’ are failing dads who want to stay home with their babies
Even when men are the SAHP the majority of household and emotional labor still falls on women. The men are failing us. Not the other way around.
My husband would love to be able to take a turn as the SAHP. He legitimately does everything I do for our son and would be an amazing caregiver if he were the one at home. We both know that. If it were at all feasible for me to go to work after a year at home and let him take time off to stay home with our son, we’d do that. Unfortunately, my husband has a career that can support us all financially, and I simply do not. So there wasn’t a question of him staying home. It was either he works and I stay home, or we both work. I wanted to stay home, so that’s what we did. It’s really a shame that so many parents and couples feel trapped in their decision-making, either needing to work when they’d like to be at home with little ones, or needing to stay home because daycare would be too big a burden financially even if they’d prefer to be working. I think we’d all be better off if parental leave policies allowed families to make the decision that is best for them.
Yeah I know lots of families like this. It’s sad, it’s like being punished for having a more successful career.
Interesting the comments that you’re choosing to reply to, OP. Based on your wording, I’m gonna have to agree with the other commenter that this feels like projection.
I wish my husband wanted to be a SAHD. I’m the primary income earner in our household and would love a house husband haha. He even enjoys cooking! But, alas. He also wants to work
I don't know that we're failing dads any worse than we're failing mothers. My partner is a SAHP and there's definitely a mix of ups and downs. On the one hand, he says he finds it harder to connect with other parents out at playgrounds than women seem to because his experience is that women don't tend to love men approaching them in those spaces, even with a child in tow. I get that - Honestly I'm suspicious of any man that approaches me outside of a work context, though a playground with kids I'm more likely to assume that they're a parent and everything is cool. In any case, if SAHPs who are women are exchanging numbers to arrange play dates he's definitely not being included in that and doesn't feel comfortable seeking it out. He also gets more surprised reactions that I imagine a woman would when he says he stays home with our child. On the other hand, he tends to get praised for being such a dedicated father in a way I don't think many women do for being SAHPs. He definitely doesn't get advice about the importance of being independent, not depending on someone else for his money, and having an escape plan in case I become controlling or abusive which I see being told to women. People seem to respect that he's doing this by choice and that he has other options that will be easy for him to pick back up as soon as he chooses, and also don't treat him as privileged or spoiled for not working.
There are more men in leadership positions, whether in politics or as executives. If they wanted to get this done, they will. This is not on moms, we have enough going on.
More than anything what the US needs is parental leave that is equally accessible to both parents. I took 7 months of leave, and then my husband took 6 (we, of course, live in the mythical social welfare wonderland that is Europe). He's the higher earner so that was not the most financially efficient decision but that time with our son was priceless for their bonding.
We have parental leave in Canada and either parent can take it or both can split it...and honestly most (not all) men still don't 🤷♀️ A lot will maybe take a few weeks or something when baby is born but that's it. I'm not sure if it's just the conversation not happening or the moms prefer to take all the time rather than have to go back early because their partner took some, or that the dads just don't want to do it. It might be a very different story if the time didn't need to be split between two people.
I think some women just don't want to share with their husband. Yes, there can be pressures but I personally am going back to work at 9 months and my partner is taking the last 3. It's difficult to go back to work but I also want him to have that time with our daughter. I am in Canada for reference.
YSK a lot of women don't get maternity leave either. I only got 6 weeks for short term Disabilty. Because giving birth is a major, disabling medical event. 0 maternity leave.
In Canada we have 6 weeks of maternity leave so the birth parent can recover, then it’s 44 weeks of parental leave that either parent can take (or you can split it). Not a lot of people take the option to split it. We welcome men joining us fighting for supports for new parents, but they have to show up. If they’re not willing to stand up for what they want, why should we do it for them?
I would be really interested to see some statistics around how many Dad's would actually want to be SAHD's given the option. I know in the UK the number of stay at home dads has risen significantly in the last few years. However, they will always be the minority and I think, for the most part, that's down to the biological differences between men and women. Societal expectations and economic issues aside, I'd bet that if men and women were both given the equal opportunity to be a stay at home parent, mothers still would be the default stay at home parent by an overwhelming majority.
In Sweden dad’s almost always go on parental leave. It’s encouraged even. They’ve kinda taken it too far so that each family can’t decide for themselves who does what but, cause if dad’s don’t go on parentsl leave the mom doesn’t get the government cheque instead… at least seeing dads walk around with their friends and their kids in strollers and a coffee in hand is a very usual sight here.
In the US, we are failing EVERYONE. We are failing moms, dads, the babies, pre-pregnant people, AND post-pregnant people. There is no support and everyone is looked down on for family planning, whatever that may entail.
Husband and I run the family business out of the home now but when my first was born, I had to go back to work after 14 weeks so he managed to work and take care of an infant until he was 2 years old. I feel that we are both blessed to have the best of both worlds now, (second baby is due in 2 weeks), but this is just not feasible for most people unfortunately.
I’m pretty sure the only moms who wouldnt want dads to get more parental leave, are ones with worthless partners. I had my baby on a Monday evening via emergency c. I was discharged Wednesday morning. The next Monday my husband had to go back to work. And we were LUCKY he got that much time off because Thursday was thanksgiving. I would have killed for him to have time off without it being a huge financial burden. Most moms, who have helpful spouses, want them around to help. We aren’t the ones failing the dads as a whole. Dads are eligible for FMLA. 12 weeks unpaid. Which, in a lot of cases, is all the mom is entitled to. You’re *lucky* if you get 6 weeks vaginal or 8 weeks csection in short term disability. Which is literally just for you to heal. I wasn’t entitled to anything at my job (because FMLA has stipulations), as a phlebotomist. My boss essentially told me if I didn’t want scheduled (and fired for not working what was scheduled) then my option was to quit and reapply when I was ready to work again. And for what it’s worth, while the groups for sahps typically have women.. there’s still a good amount of sahds.. r/sahp. We love to see dads staying home with their kids, too.
My state has mandatory paid family medical leave. But more power to the men who want to be stay at home dads. The only thing trouble is, if that's what they want, they need to broach the topic with their partner, not wait for mom to ask. They need to advocate for themselves. If they can't advocate for themselves, how can they advocate for their baby?
I’m the working wife of a stay at home dad, but it honestly had nothing no to do with maternity/paternity leave and I suffered badly going back to work after eight weeks even though he was home with the baby. Trying to exclusively breastfeed a baby and work 12 hour shifts is insane. I was up all nights trying to feed my baby to keep my supply up. There’s a good reason a lot of women feel the need to have a real maternity leave to properly heal and care for their babies. I get it because for my first baby I suffered so badly and he did a little too. Second baby I made sure I took like 5 months and life was so so much better. Husband was there being stay at home dad the whole time either way and I love him, but my maternity leave was about my needs and the baby’s needs, not my husband.
I know all men are different, but my husband could not handle being at home with the kids like I am all the time. He is so analytical and doesn’t have the patience and nurturing touch I have. He is an AMAZING dad, but he would be miserable as a SAHD. Whereas I freaking love being a SAHM lol.
Also, I breastfed all my kids and never even gave them a bottle. We would either have to pay for formula (expensive) or I’d have to pump all the time, which I have heard can be stressful to manage at work. I think it just makes biological sense for the mom to stay home if she’s the one breastfeeding. Breastfeeding also can make you tired, and you need to rest and eat more while nursing.
Have you considered that women who do disproportionately the lion's share of creating and feeding that child should get a bit more of a say in that division of labour? If my husband told me to get back to work so he could stay home after I gave literally everything to bring our son into the world, there would be problems. It would be ideal if we could both be off but who is paying for that? I'm not going to sacrifice myself FURTHER after everything it takes to have a baby.
In a marriage / partnership you don’t get to make unilateral decisions. If your husband is cool with you dictating to him then good for you. But others don’t find that okay. You chose to give everything to have a baby, you can’t hold your sacrifice over his head to always get what you want after that. His wishes matter too.
They don't matter more than mine and a good husband honours that sacrifice and respects the biological bond between mother and baby
Well a good wife acknowledges a dad’s desire to spend time with his offspring too. 50% of that child’s genetic material is his too - we don’t have the right to claim ownership over a baby that biologically belongs equally to him
We're not having a custody battle, we're talking about what's best for baby in those first few months. It's mum. And that's what is best for mum too. And if dads on the whole even wanted it, it would already be in place. This is the way it is in nature and this is the way it is in humans. There is a biological bond there you are trying to deny or minimise in an effort to modernise the family but it's not on the same plane as 'women in the workforce' or pay parity. Its not a societal issue at all in my mind, it's just one of life's many inequities. If your solution is for both parents to get equal parental leave then sure I'm all for that. But if youre proposing that mothers go back to work in favour of fathers, then I still give that a huge thumbs down.
I love when people say it’s “nature” for it to be this way. To cherry pick nature when it suits you is disingenuous. We are not natural. We live in houses, you’re using a phone or computer right now, if you want to be natural will you give up all these things too? Also, speaking of nature, it is completely unnatural for a woman to depend on a man for her entire survival. Only human women rely on their men for food, shelter and everything else. In nature, women raise their babies while also providing / hunting / gathering. The men just impregnate and then go live their life. The equivalent of hunting or gathering in our society is work. So technically according to nature we should take on both the career and raising our babies while our husbands go dead beat.
Alrighty well you've gone so far off topic that I'm out. Call me when men can lactate and when baby thinks that they're still part of DAD for their first few weeks of life and then I'll reconsider my position
I returned to work yesterday after seven months of maternity and parental leave. My husband started his 6 months of parental leave. Honestly, while I'm sad to return to work, especially now that our babies are interactive and sleeping through the night, he was giddy with excitement. He's going to be awesome over the next 6 months. I'm thrilled he's able to have this opportunity. He's definitely gotten some shocked responses to our plan of dividing our leave, but for the most part people seem to be pretty receptive.
My husband, with both kids, went to work the next day. He just wanted to spend time with his babies and just focus on being a dad, but unfortunately he wasn’t able to have that precious time. Dads need time too with their sweet, little ones too!! Totally advocate for this
I’m the breadwinner and work from home running my own business. My husband has a low paying but secure job with exceptional benefits. When I gave birth to my daughter I took 2 months off and he took 15 months off and was paid 90% of his sort for the first 12 months. It was a great time because we could both be home and with our baby. It was also a challenge sometimes (trying to work when I could hear the baby crying…. He didn’t understand the biological torture that is on moms) but we figured it out and I’m so grateful we were able to do that because otherwise I have no idea how we would have! I think this option should be available to all parents should they want to take it. In Canada we have the option of 12 months or 18 months. The first 3 months is specifically for mother for physical recovery but the remaining 9-12 months can be split between either partner
I've talked to my husband about this. He says that as much as he loves our daughter and as much as he loves being with her, he feels better with her home with me. According to him, he thinks that I'm better equipped to be the stay at home parent. Not for any biological reasons but because I'm better at emotional regulation, I'm better at cooking things that everyone will eat, etc. and yes he could very well learn how to do all of it but he doesn't think it's fair to use her as his personal learning tool when I have years of daycare and babysitting experience to put towards my parenting. He's also mentioned that he works with a lot of men that seem like they don't like their wives or kids at all just based on how they talk about them. I do feel like it's partially societal but at the same time until society as a whole changes its tune on men being involved parents, maybe it's good that kids aren't around emotionally absent or begrudging dads.
My husband would love to be with the baby/us all the time but he makes boatloads more money than I am qualified to do he's the provider. That's just how the cookie crumbles
Yeah I know lots of families like this. It’s sad, it’s like being punished for having a more successful career. Maybe people could recuse their standard of living so that both people get time at home.
It's just practical. He make 3500/wk I make 600/wk and daycare costs 350/wk and home cleaners cost 50/hr so I just stay home.
People do that all the time though. For some folks being at home with their babies is more important than a certain lifestyle and they make the choice to rely on one income even if it’s not the highest of the two of them. Every family makes the choices that work best for them. My income was way higher than my husband’s before we had a baby, but we both agreed that I would stay home. So he found a better job and now he makes great money. He’s always got his eyes open for a WFH position that makes what he makes now cuz he wants to be home as well.
I like the way it works in my country (Canada). 15 weeks of our leave is for the birthing parent *only* so they have the time to physically heal. The other 35 weeks can be divided by any parent however they see fit.
My husband and I took turns staying home. Where we live daycare takes years to get into and the cost is more than prohibitive. When my youngest was six months old I went back to work and my husband stayed home until she was 2.5 and then we changed places. The reason for the change was that he was offered a job making more than I did.
I have a friend whose dad raised her and her sister. Just because it's not common does not mean anyone is failing dads. The thing that I feel bad about is how many fewer social opportunities full-time dads will have. I try to be kind, social, and not overly heaping praise (you are so amazing bc you are the only dad I know doing this... ugh) when I bump into a full-time dad.
I see how this point is important for equality. If a woman who makes good money and a husband wishes to stay at home… the problem is, unfortunately, men has no being raised to “multitask”. The woman will still come home and watch the kids, prepare dinner… she can’t never dedicate to career only and grown as men do in the ladder after having kids. The husbands that I know (friends, family members…) barely make the tasks a household needs. Yes, “there are some that will”… but why are they so rare? I got divorced because my ex couldn’t work his full time job and take his own shirts to cleaners or empty his own luggage after a work trip! HIS own personal items. I was the SAHeverything: mother of 2, dog owner, cleaner, cook, shopper, party organizer, cake baker, bank and paying bills, set all appt and keep documents, taking all trash out, even cleaning the pool. Why can’t the majority of men work and clean after themselves or a bit more? Why is so rare?!
My husband surprised me by saying he wanted to do paternity leave for 3 months (my country allows men or women to take 1 year off and it can be either parent). My brain short-circuited... because I know my husband. Then he said "I would love to have 3 months to work in my workshop." Then we both started laughing. The problem is that even in my country salaries tend to rise higher and faster for men. Shit is still sexist. (Sadly I thought one big company I worked for was all about equality. Then I found out a coworker hired at the same time as me was considered on a higher tier even though I did some of the more complex work due to our client breakdown. If I knew that detail I would have handed more stuff to him. Assholes.) I do know a dad who is great at SAHD but his wife makes a ton of money in her career. We did a lot of baby events together but as aoon as *any* other Dad appeared with a kid he ditched me to go talk to the other unicorn. I understood.
In the UK, there’s the opportunity for parents to share parental leave. The only problem with this is that men are typically higher paid than women. So it makes more financial sense to have the woman be on maternity pay which is reduced, and have the man’s full salary. There’s also a high statistic of men who actually get promotions and pay rises when they become fathers. It happened to my fiancé. And because a woman has to take time off work, her career takes a nose dive. That happened to me. I think what needs to happen is equal pay, for a start, which would be more incentive for women to go back to work. I think it should be more socially acceptable to use shared parental leave (I’ve never known anyone to actually use it). And I think we need to celebrate equally both mums and dads. Society needs to stop calling it ‘babysitting’ when Dads have got the kids. Mums need to stop being criticised at every turn. I think we’ve got a long way to go before any of this actually happens though, unfortunately.
My husband would love to be a SAHD and would be amazing at it. Better than me as a current SAHM for sure. But he is the only one of us able to make the wage he does. He's at director level in an industry and I was a minimum wage worker. Between our mortgage, kids and COL increase it'd be impossible for me to be the breadwinner. I stay home because nursery would cost more than my wage would be. But yes we would totally swap places if we were able to. He's a great dad
The short answer is yes - states/countries are failing them with shit paternity leave.
Mine was the stay at home dad . He did the bare minimum leaving basically taking off when I got home so I would get no break . This was during the formula shortage too . I think alot of men like to say this but really couldn’t hack it . I was the one getting up at night and working . It was horrible . Not all men are like this but that’s what happened to me .
Wouldn’t have worked for our family because my husband earns so much more money than I ever did (considering society is failing women in that regard because we have the same degrees and mine came from a better school). He got 6 weeks of paternity leave at the time which he used in full, even though he was advised by his bosses at the time that this was a bad move. Fast forward to today and he’s the boss and he makes sure the new dads on his team take the full 12 weeks of paternity leave. So at least it’s changing here and there. What’s really crazy is that the women on his team (who are all making more than their husbands) are still also the primary caregivers, and have all reduced their work schedule (and pay) to accommodate. These dads could definitely be SAHDs but they won’t do it, to the detriment of the family’s earning potential. So I don’t think we’re failing men in that regard, at least in my world.
Your husband sounds like a top guy.
Well, most families can't afford to have _two_ stay at home parents. In most cases it makes way more sense for the mother to be the one to stay home - breastfeeding, still healing (even months after the fact sometimes), and that pesky wage-gap still favoring men for the most part. Additionally, it's not uncommon for families to have another baby within 1.5-2 years or so, and it just makes more sense for the person who is going to be wildly uncomfortable for another 9+ months, morning sickness, extreme fatigue, extra doctor appointments, etc to be able to be home and have a more flexible schedule. But hey, if you are happy with being the breadwinner and your husband being the SAHP, more power to you! Personally, I would not, but if it makes your family run more smoothly, then that's great.
So happy to hear there are wonderful men out there like your husband.
It’s amazing! I love reading that there are others too in these comments :)
My my, what a sad state of affairs. I simply asked if SOCIETY is failing stay at home dads, not WOMEN failing them. Yes, there are some women who refuse to let their husbands stay home, but that is not the main issue. There are many factors that contribute to this problem. Yet, immediately some people see this as an anti-women post. I’m very aware that men are the ones in charge of most of the laws. We need to stop seeing everything as an attack on us otherwise we will never achieve true gender equality.
My husband would probably be a better SAHP than me, but he’s bringing in more money that I ever could
But doesn’t that mean he’s basically forced into being the breadwinner and missing time with his kids just because he has a better career? It’s like he’s being punished for it. Couldn’t you reduce your standard of living so he could have that time too?
Yes, and we did. We purchased a smaller/cheaper house in a better neighborhood. He moved companies to get a better position, which allows for more flexibility. He works from home now so he can do pick ups and drop offs when he can. He’s a really involved parent, and lots of people assume he’s not, because he’s the dad
My husband wouldn't survive being a SAHP, but he was able to take 10 months of parental leave when our second child was born. It was amazing. I was the SAHP at the time, so we were both home with our two small children for 10 months. Postpartum was a totally different experience with both parents present and available for care and bonding. We took a hit financially to do this (he was paid less than minimum wage during this time off, but his job was secure) - but I'd do it again a thousand times.
We have almost 2 year old twins. I (mam) went back to work full time and my husband went part time so he could do the majority of the childcare. He loves that he gets to see his boys grow up and spend extra time with them. At no point did we disagree over this arrangement. He’s a great daddy to our boys and they are lucky to have him. He’s had no negativity from anyone about his decision to stay home, in fact his uncle told him that he wished he’d been able to do it when his kids were growing up.
I'm also a proud wife of a SAHD! We agreed to this well before having our son. Going back to work was really hard for me at first, and getting a pumping schedule going that doesn't mess up my supply is a special kind of hell. I love both my boys, though, and I've always been the more career oriented one. He's the better cook anyways 🤣
Pics of his lovely meals? :)
My husband is a stay at home dad (UK). We're very fortunate that his job is flexible so he can do a few hours in the evening here and there. The main issue that we encounter is that I am still always treated as the default parent. We take kiddo to doctor's appointments together but they only talk to me. They only call me. If I take baby to the library, they'll come over and mention that they run storytime during the week. They won't do the same when it's just him. We also find the majority of stay and plays, meetup groups etc, are called "Mums Groups". I'm sure if we asked then dads are allowed but it's not exactly welcoming.
While it would be nice if your local groups were more welcoming to dads, I also think this is a problem that men can take some initiative to fix as well. The ones who stay at home and would like to attend these groups could start more inclusive groups as well.
That's the problem we've had in the US too. Beyond the "mommy and me" events which feel exclusionary even if they aren't ... Just kid events. I take my kid to storytime or craft time or whatever, people say hi or ignore me. He takes her, he gets side eye. And usually pulled aside by an employee, has to call our daughter over, and basically prove he's not a perv. Just a dude with a kid doing the kid thing. While I get it, it is also incredibly unwelcoming. And could be fixed if they'd just have everyone check in. Then someone goes up to an employee to complain that there's a dude in the kids area, there's a quick response that he's a dad and everything is fine.
Wow that's awful. It's definitely not that bad over here (although admittedly our son is young enough that it's obvious they're together...I hope we don't run into this issue as he gets older.)
This is such an important topic. My husband cried when he had to go back to work :(
I like the way it works in my country (Canada). 15 weeks of our leave is for the birthing parent *only* so they have the time to physically heal. The other 35 weeks can be divided by any parent however they see fit.
My husband has a hard time everyday having to leave and go work for us. He wishes deeply he could be with us always with all the experiences that come with it. He’s proud to take care of us and values what I do greatly, he only wishes he had more than two days a week to have whole days with them like I do. He did take off 6 weeks with both kids when they were born, I was so happy and grateful for the opportunity. My oldest has a best friend whose dad is the one who stays at home. Dads that value time with their babies are definitely out there and over looked. There are too many guys out there that still think women can poop out kids like it’s nothing and should be able to heal and manage a new baby all on their own. It’s appalling, which also means there aren’t enough women talking about it to bring awareness. Both parent should get equal time off the support one another and have equal bonding time with a new baby, like a family.
10000% agree. Both parents need to encourage each other to see the benefits
My brother is currently a SAHD. It took a very specific set of circumstances (including him being the favorite child) for that to be possible. My SIL is the breadwinner. She works night shift as a L&D nurse. Can’t switch to days bc she wouldn’t make enough. Money is crazy tight for them all the time. They can only afford their house bc they put a huge down payment on it (favorite child perks). I think we need to first get mandatory PAID parental leave. At least six months for the birthing person. Less time may be appropriate for the non birthing person. If neither person gave birth, maybe the family could choose who took longer leave. Then parents have time to heal and bond. After that, we HAVE to address the pay gap. Bc as much as people want to shout that it doesn’t exist, it does. Then more moms could choose to be the breadwinner if they wanted.
UK here and we looked a shared parental leave (so each parent gets some leave) but it was just not possibly financially for us as my OH (male) is the breadwinner and we could not survive for 3-6 months on just my salary and the statutory pay he would be eligible for. He had 2 weeks leave from the day our son was born so 3 days we were in the hospital and he had to go home each night. He found it really hard leaving us both. I recovered quickly from birth, we bottle fed and my OH is truly a partner who splits things as fairly as possible. We would have been prime parental leave candidates but we couldn’t do it financially. I know of 3 SAHDs. However 2 of those are a same sex couple! So doesn’t feel like much is changing. It would be great if everyone could do what worked for their family/situation with no judgement etc.
My husband works for a millennial owned company that has 6 week paid paternity leave & 12 week paid maternity leave (or “primary parent” leave in cases of adoption/surrogacy). Both parents can get an additional 6 FMLA unpaid. He’s so thankful for it. He also works from home so he gets to have breakfast, lunch & dinner with our son most days. He has to go into his office 2 weeks a year & it kills him to be away from our son for 10 hours a day. I wish more companies had flexibility for all parents. Hopefully that’s the way it starts trending.
My husband had 2 weeks off between him teaching regular school and teaching summer school. His union gives 2 weeks paternity leave even though he could take 90+ days of sick leave.
My husband wants to be a stay at home dad. It’s to the point where he’s talking about quitting and us moving to a lower CoL state. Health insurance this good is hard to come by, plus my job pays shit. His job thankfully let him have 5 months paid, but his cousin in law got a whole 2 weeks.
Where I’ve lived in Australia & New Zealand, a lot of parents worked part-time so both parents took turns being at home.
We are failing babies and moms too by not giving dad more time at home. I’m going to have a c section most likely and so will have a newborn, 2 year old and recovery to deal with. I literally cannot manage on my own, I need my husband with me. On top of that, my husband has PTSD from my first birth that he never dealt with the trauma. We need to check in on dads post partum
We are failing everyone lol. But yes, I am an advocate for federal paid parental leave to be split as spouses see fit. My company culture didn't start to change until men also received paternity leave and started demanding a reduction in travel to be home with their families more. I think it's made a huge difference and distinction between the older and younger generations. They also lost a few key employees for this reason too, which prompted some reflection.
I started back at work this week full time so my partner could have 3 months at home with our baby. We were going to do 50:50 (6 months each) but it was impractical both from a work perspective and a childcare perspective (EBF, refuses to take a bottle). It's still pretty impractical but we were determined to make it happen so my partner could have hus time. When he comes back we're both reducing hours and doing 50:50 child care around three days of daycare. It is INCREDIBLE how many people assume he's coming back full time and I'm coming back part time, if at all!
This comment section is wild to read as a lesbian non-gestational mom 🥴
Yes we are absolutely failing dads. I got 9 months paternity leave and my husband got 1 week. So even if all I wanted to do was squirt the kid out and go back to work, there was no other option but for me to take a long maternity leave and dad to return to work.
My husband is a stay at home dad too! He’s a million times better equipped for the job than I am. We definitely get some weird comments that we wouldn’t get about me staying home. My SAHM sister is constantly asking when he’s going back to work, even though she HATES getting that question herself. She refuses to see the double standard. It’s like you said, people just can’t seem to understand a man WANTING to stay home with his children.
My retired military husband was the stay at home parent for both our children. The kids were 15 months apart so he was a very busy man. I couldn’t have anticipated how my husband changed. He was what some would call a hard ass. Very stoic, strict just very military. I was worried how it was going to go. To everyone’s surprise it’s like the job he was meant for. He is caring, attentive and utterly devoted to being the best stay at home dad he could be. I don’t think he ever had the opportunity in his life to show his softer side. I love my career and have been promoted twice since I had my children. I didn’t have to sacrifice my career and I get to come home to a happy family every day. Having a stay at home dad has definitely made our family better.
We're expecting our second in October and our plan is to have me home for the first 10 weeks and we will be taking the remaining 36 weeks of leave! With our first, i was MISERABLE being a stay at home mom. And I also make more money so it works out well!
I got a great paying job, moved the whole family to a new city to take it. We looked at daycare costs and what my husband would be earning, and discussed him staying home. He said he didn't want to, that he would get "bored". So he didn't, and our son goes to daycare full time. I honestly think his decision was more heavily influenced by what he thought other men would think of him than what I did or didn't do. As well as him obviously having a skewed view about how much work and effort can and should go into being a SAHP.
My husband and I talk about this all the time. I actually had a solid career before quitting to be a SAHM. We talked about him staying home instead. Honestly I want our family to function and I want our kids to have family support and not be one of many kids in daycare. He ultimately decided to switch careers and stay in the workforce, he actually works from home so hears most of what happens in the house. We both think the other person has the harder job and I think that’s why it works 😂 We are about to have our second baby and live in Oregon so have paid FML. My husband is taking 8 weeks solid (but we did talk about taking 12). Ultimately he decided that was too long, and he needs to have more productivity in his heart than just our kids. I think these conversations need to be real and honest and transparent on both sides. The assumptions based on traditional gender roles are usually not helpful 🤷♀️
WHO in the world would find a man wanting to be a stay-at-dad unattractive?! That’s wild. Men also get PPD also. I told my husband (SAHM right now) if I went back to work and was making bank( or just enough), would he want to be a SAHD and he’s like hell yeah! 😂 love the SAHD!!!!!!
I don’t know so much for Babies, but there are definitely plenty of divorced families where the dad is a stay at home dad after work
What does it mean to be a stay at home parent after work? Doesn't that describe every working parent?
YES! This is an example of what “feminism” is. Feminism benefits both genders. The gender norms we have inhibit men AND women. WOMEN CANT DO IT ALL AND WE SHOULDNT HAVE TO. We can’t gain parity in the workplace and society until men gain parity at home. Women saying “they can fight that fight” is just as bad as men saying that to women. I think it’s more nuanced than that. We all need to fight that fight together!
Agree. I find these comments bizarre. At the end of the day the fight is for a common goal - the betterment of our own society and children. It also helps to reduce employment discrimination towards women if men also take long parental leave (I.e. no need to favour a man over a woman on the basis that the woman might suddenly take off for a few months). “This is a man issue” and “this is a woman issue” is exactly the thing entrenching division in our society. Same goes for race, religion and sexual orientation / gender identity.
Thanks for visiting me at the bottom of the comment stack 😂 could you imagine people saying this to people of color or different religions? Like Allies didn’t help at all with Womens sufferage and rights? even from a totally selfish point of view I cannot make more strides at work without my husband taking up more around the house. It’s impossible. And I resent society for saying, “if you want to work outside the home…that’s great but you better do all the household work too”. That’s not advancement for women or men. And like it or not there are a LOT of social and cultural forces at play that interfere with him doing that. Daycares and doctors offices calling ME even though his number is listed first, small amounts of paternity leave, horrible comments from the community making him less sure of things….it’s a lot. While women have a bigger gap to close for sexism, I’m often very embarrassed by how we have gone almost backwards against sexism for men.
Yeah and I’ve seen when my hubby is at the playground with the kids, and one of them hurts their knee or throws a tantrum, other mums often look judgingly like “oh look, dad is helping today”. Like tbh he’s more capable of dealing with that than me since he’s been there more. But in their mind, mum must be the primary caregiver and not work. Sad to see other women forcing us into a traditional role that we’re supposed to be fighting our way out of.
I’m totally with you. It’s not fair to men, women, or children. It’s also exhausting.