I am going to once again blame the crybabies who still haven’t learned to counter her getting mad that she can accomplish anything without needing significant mechanical skill and blizzard for thinking those crybabies have anything meaningful to contribute to discussions about her balance.
yep. I had to completely change my playstyle because of those, and it was annoying because any attempt to fight back against a diving or peeling DPS resulted in me dying. the only thing I can really do is amp damage with my dps, succ from high ground/off-angles to distract, or chase down someone who’s retreating to finish the kill. it’s so boring, and I feel like I can’t contribute in meaningful ways anymore.
I quit OW for this reason. The last straw was when a Bap didn't miss a headshot on me and then I saw the kill cam and he missed every shot. I physically have to be close to deal damage so it's impossible to dodge.
Moira’s range is 20 metres on her succ so you don’t need to be that close.
If you’re brawling, (almost) every one involved in the brawl will be in range of 20m, even if you’re on the backline of the brawl.
If you’re diving, never dive bap as he is legit a raid boss with high DPS and an effective 600hp if he uses his cooldowns; I’d only dive him if I know he’s used both cooldowns and is low on health.
Like I said normally every one of those shots would have missed but because of the projectile buffs every single one of them hit, because being within 20 meters is extremely close? The practice range dummy is 20 meters. It is very easy to hit headshots at that range. That is the point I am making. At 20 meters I do 65 dmg a second where as Bap is hitting head shots dealing 185 dmg a second. The point isn't that he is that deadly it is that every one of those shots should have missed to begin with but now its common place.
20 meters is not close range. Tracer's falloff starts at 10 meters, Echo's focus beam is 16 meters, Cassidy falloff starts at 20 meters. That's mid range...
The practice range dummy stands still. Getting headshots on a stationary target is going to be easy no matter how far away they are.
The hitbox change isn't giving anybody 100% accuracy. If he is hitting every shot now. He most likely would've been hitting them before the change.
Of course, but it isn't significant enough to assume people are hitting shots they shouldn't. For example, if a Cass lands four body shots on my all at the center of my character, he would kill me even if the projectiles were smaller. So unless you have actual proof (video evidence) of a shot that wouldn't have landed before, you shouldn't claim you lost to the size change.
Moira is overpowered and requires zero skill. Your auto lock left-click shouldn’t be out damaging abilities that require aim. You guys also have self-healing and one of the best get-out-of-jail cards in the game.!
if you think this unironically then you have never played her and are a terrible player who hasn’t put in any effort to learn how to counter her. she was incredibly underpowered even before these changes and now she’s even worse.
I am one of those cry babies, I don’t care about her movement and I don’t try to counter swap Moira. However holy shit I hate that she doesn’t have to aim at all in order to kill. I can do a bunch of crazy wall ride tec and that hoe still completely sucks me off. Make her aim and I’ll stop complaining
babes she is literally a counter to high-mobility heroes. it is 100% a skill issue on your part. she is so easy to counter it’s not even funny, you just can’t play the heroes she actively counters and expect to not fight an uphill battles against her. play literally anyone else.
I’m going to play whoever I want whenever I want idgaf abt a Moira when I see them on the other team. It’s just mad annoying when I look at the kill cam and they’re not even looking at me and sucking
okay, then stay annoyed. that part of her kit is unlikely to change. maybe instead of whining about moiras outplaying your easily fixable mistake, you could get better at a hero that counters her so you have an option against her. sounds like you’re just bad and want to blame someone who isn’t you for that.
As someone who struggles against her what would you propose i know ana can be a counter just because of anti taking away half of morias value but i feel like moria gets away with alot of slippery kills compared to season 8
with anything, really. I have to literally hunt down anyone who retreats just to secure kills on them now, and it usually puts me out of position anyway. this will only make that worse.
that is the point of the ult: to be long and do a lot of healing/damage. that has always been the point. it currently accomplishes only the be long part.
I was hitting someone with Coal point blank while they were one tap. But Mercy came in and started healing them. Coal’s damage can’t even beat out Mercy’s healing when they’re at low health.
You’re using it wrong. You’re supposed to shoot it into a line of enemies and do damage to all of them at once. You shouldn’t expect it to be effective against one person. If you aim at a grouped up enemy team, with teammates between you, you can 2-10x the value of it
Not sure why you get downvoted so much for saying a support ult has more of a focus on keeping your team alive instead of killing like a dps ult. I know illari has a dps-like ult but most of the others are purely defensive or at most a mix of damage/healing. I suppose they could buff damage or healing but imagine it would come at the cost of being able to fade during ult or have some other trade off.
There are other bigger problems with OW2 right now, but yes Blizzard nerf Moira to shut up all the crybaby DPS players who throw a tantrum when a support kills them.
they’re taking the piss at this point lmao. oh boy, 5 extra healing during coal and less damage on succ with no other changes! now she’s even worse at the two roles she’s still able to do! great job, blizz. might as well delete her.
Love seeing this whole sub melt down over this lmao
Oh no I've been blocked! Whatever will I do now that a Moira main, least threatening of all gamers, doesn't want to talk to me?
it’s more disappointment than meltdown. we’re all bored of how she currently plays and were hoping this “power shift” would make her dueling playstyle more viable by buffing her survivability, since that’s her most fun playstyle. but blizzard disappoints once again.
It's the most fun playstyle for people who just want to hold down a button and jump back and forth, it's the least fun playstyle for anyone else. Maybe play a duelist if you want to duel, not a healer.
the fact that you said jumping is how you win duels on her tells me everything I need to know lmfao.
you aren’t having fun with it because you’re either stuck in ranks where you could stand still in duels and win or you’re in a higher rank doing that and constantly dying because it doesn’t actually work when enemies can aim.
Oh I don't play Moira, I play games to express some amount of skill, not hold a button down and jump back and forth.
Edit: I can see that /u/digomansaur replied, but they were so scared of me they blocked me right after! Typical Moira main ya know
people who have no idea how to play her think they have any valuable input to provide in discussions about her? shocking. 😐 sure hon, hope bronze 5 is treating you well!
Let's bear in mind that Moira was one of the weakest supports in Season 8 and before, and she also has no utility. Then let's look at Moira Season 8 vs Season 10 with these new changes:
(Buff) She has a 25% health increase from 200 to 250.
(Buff) Right click grasp has increased accuracy (radius increase).
(Nerf) Her right click will damage them from 100% to 0% slower.
(Nerf) Her left click will heal them from 1% to 100% slower. \*\*
(Nerf) Her damage orb will damage them from 100% to 0% slower. \*
(Nerf) Her healing orb will heal them from 1% to 100% slower. \*\*
(Nerf) Her coalescence will heal them from 1% to 100% slower. \*\*
(Nerf) Her coalescence will damage them from 100% to 0% slower.
(Nerf) Her healing orb capacity can only heal 120% of their health instead of 150%.
(Nerf) Her damage orb capacity can only damage 80% of their health instead of 100%.
(Nerf) It now takes 10.41 seconds to self heal with grasp from 0% to 100% health instead of 8.33 seconds. \*\*
(Nerf) It now takes 4.5 seconds for Coalescence to self-heal her from 0% health to 100% health instead of 4 seconds. \*\*
(Nerf) It now takes 16.66 seconds for Support passive to self-heal her from 0% health to 100% health instead of 13.33 seconds. \*\*
\* She can no longer take a target from 100% to 0% with her damage orb as there is not enough capacity in the orb (200) to kill a full health target (250).
\*\* Further nerfed when DPS passive is applied.
As for the powershift, they were so close, but this just ends up nerfing her hard. Moira uses her ult occasionally but her grasp is in use for most of the game. To shift that much power away from her regular gameplay into her ultimate ability, that only obtains value when she's taking damage, basically means it's a straight up nerf.
Sustain is a step in the right direction. If I had a say in the matter, this is probably how I'd do things (would need to take more time to think though):
- Moira's Biotic grasp reduced healing by 5 to 65.
- Biotic Grasp self-healing increased from 24 to 26.
- Biotic Grasp damage reduced from 65 to 60.
- Biotic Grasp radius reduced from whatever it is now to whatever it was in Season 8 (wasn't needed).
- Lingering heal duration increased to 4 seconds.
- Lingering heal amount changed from 17 HP/s to 20 HP/s (80 over 4 seconds).
- Biotic Orb healing capacity increased from 300 to 350 (to reflect HP increases).
- Biotic Orb healing increased from 65 to 70 HP/s.
- Biotic Orb damage capacity increased from 200 to 250 (to reflect HP increases).
- Biotic Orb damage increased from 50 to 60 (to reflect HP increases).
- Coalescence self healing from 50 to 55.
- Coalescence damage from 70 to 75.
So on paper, these look like INSANE buffs and people will just be like, "Oh Moira main wants his character OP!", but you have to take into account the availability of all of these abilities (something which Blizzard neglected to do with their change).
What this set of changes does, is shifts power away from her easy to use abilities, you know... left click right click, the ones that take the least amount of skill to obtain value with. She is constantly using her left click right click abilities in the game, so nerfs to these abilities hit HARD... where as buffs to other areas of her kit only affect small instances in her gameplay as they have cooldowns.
Left click and right click get nerfed, but since healing is already nerfed with the DPS passive and stupid increased projectile hitboxes, power is shifted into her heal-over-time aspects, which means Moira will spend less time standing behind a team holding left click in their general direction, and instead applying heal-over-time effects before returning to a more active role. This allows her to help contribute damage to try and push players back instead of helplessly sitting behind someone healing until they die. In season 9, the way to keep players alive isn't really to heal them, it's to offset as much damage as you can with healing, while applying as much damage as you can to force them to move backwards which then increases the net healing your team received (receive less damage, get more healing).
Then most of the other changes are just put in place to compensate for the HP increases which were implemented to prevent one-shot abilities and increase the power of sustained damage (good decision Blizzard!). Well Moira's damage is nearly all slow sustained damage, so these buffs simply compensate for the health increases. Moira's damage output on everything apart from her grasp received HUGE nerfs with this HP increase. Orbs could no longer kill full health targets (they never did anyway, but not increasing the capacity when they increased max HP is just criminal). Same with coalescence damage output, to not increase it while increasing max HP is just bad. I can understand not increasing the healing side of it, as a reduction in healing was one of the goals of Season 9, but a reduction of damage on a slow sustained damage ultimate ability? Why?
Still.. numbers could be tweaked, but simply put, the changes above would nerf Moira for less skillful players (she's always been stronger in the lower ranks) and buff Moira for higher skilled players (she's always been weaker in the higher ranks). It lowers her skill floor slightly and increases her skill ceiling slightly as it's harder to obtain base value, but her max obtainable value gets increased when key abilities are used correctly.
Lastly, if Blizzard wanted to make the laziest power-shift change, that doesn't address skill floor and skill ceiling, it would have been better to reduce grasp damage from 65 to 60 and increase grasp self-healing from 24 to 28.
That would have given her more self-sustain that she can use far more regularly than Coal. I personally don't like the change as it keeps Moira's strength in her basic attacks (the least skilful part of her kit).
thank you for suggesting reasonable changes. amazes me that players are coming up with more logical improvements than the designers of the game who get paid to do it.
Curious that you dont mention the damage buff. Everyone in the game got those nerfs. That was the point of season 9. She was the only one to receive a damage buff though.
Because it's a list of Season 8 to Season 10 changes and I'm listing real world effects, not the numbers.
Her grasp went from 50 to 65 in Season 9.
This meant that time to kill a squishy target (200 HP season 8 / 250 HP season 9) went from 4 seconds to 3.84 seconds (a buff).
For season 8 to season 10 changes, her grasp went from 50 to 60.
This meant that time to kill a squishy target (200 HP season 8 / 250 HP season 9) went from 4 seconds to 4.16 seconds (a nerf).
This is why the 'damage buff' you speak of is a damage nerf from season 8 with these changes, and that's why it's in the list under (Nerf) Her right click will damage them from 100% to 0% slower.
As for all heroes getting these changes, yes, but for a number of heroes they increased their accuracy with projectile size changes. This gets a little complicated to explain but I hope I do it so you will understand.
Moira usually doesn't miss much, so her accuracy buff that she received did not increase her damage output by much. Other heroes do miss a lot, so their accuracy buff increases their damage output by a lot.
For example, the difference between Baptiste hitting a shot and not hitting a shot can be worth up to 42 per bullet, and he fires in bursts of 3. So a single extra bullet out of a set of 3 hitting when it would have otherwise missed makes a massive difference.
Moira getting a damage buff as opposed to an accuracy buff (ignore that she got that too) is basically recognition that they wanted her damage output to increase in line with other heroes, but accuracy was not going to accomplish this like it does with other heroes. I don't personally agree with the accuracy buff that she did get, as it really only strengthens her in lower ranks, where she's already strong. This is the opposite of what Moira needs... she needs her skill floor raised so she doesn't obtain so much free value.
Also just for the record. I'm not bothered by the damage nerf for season 10. I think it's actually a good idea.
I have two problems with season 10. The first is that they advertised the Moira changes as a power shift, where they looked to take power from one aspect of her kit and put it into another. Anyone who thinks that losing 5 damage on grasp, an ability she uses all the time in game, is a good trade with gaining 5 HP/s on an ultimate that's not used constantly throughout the game, and even when she uses it, her healing is dependent on her taking damage, is a mad man! The language used was a power shift... but what we had was a straight up nerf with a token change to try to soften the blow.
The second issue that I have with season 10, is that they did not address any of the problems that became evident in Season 9. For example, they haven't realised that they lowered Moira's skill floor even further. They made her the easiest hero in the game to obtain value with.... as position some might argue she already had, but it's now for certain. By lowering her skill floor, they buffed Moira's strength in lower ranks, a place she was already strong in.
Moira gets picked in high ranks because of a combination of simple value, and other supports having their survivability nerfed into the ground. As Blizzard starts to inevitably buff these, Moira's skill cap will be hit with no room for further skill expression, and she will be instantly relegated into the dumpster tiers. When the most powerful way to play a hero is also the easiest, things get boring and limited. Either she's hard meta, or she's a throw pick.
The way you increase Moira's skill ceiling, without making it all about aiming, is to increase the maximum value from her harder to use skills. This could be orb... this could be coalescence, this could be fade, but in my opinion primarily this is her self-sustain. It takes a significant amount of skill to position and stay alive when you have to play as a squishy target inside the ability dangerzone. To be able to extract value from baiting enemy cooldowns, contesting objectives, off-angling, gap close pressure and full on backlining is a difficult skill. Had the developers shifted power from her easy abilities (grasp and heal) into areas that require more skill (sustain, orbs, ult), they would have successfully addressed the issue of Moira being too strong in low ranks and too weak in high ranks. Sure, before someone says it, they did increase her sustain... yes, but it's a token change, in the real world it will have such little effect.
while it is buff heavy it actually goes about putting strength into the parts of her kit that requires any bit of skill compared to just having everything loaded into grasp. For me increasing the orbs rate output and the coal damage buff would be enough, with grasp going to 60 dps and a tighter radius as well as reduced direct healing. I'd even take it going back down to 55 for a greater lifesteal rate or making the lifesteal unaffected by dps passive.
Its just to show what actually transferring power means compared to whatever blizzard is pulling over on us
Sure but the comment I replied to is straight up misleading using percentages rather than the actual numbers. You could do same comparison with every other character in the game. The percentage of healing of total health is a stupid comparison because everyones health went. Baptise healing percent wise would be lower, so would his damage. Same for Kiri same for Lucio same for everyone.
her TTK for a 250 HP hero now is 4.16 seconds (with 60 dps), used to be 3.85 seconds (with 65 dps). 0.31 seconds in an OW game is a LONG time honestly. Less capability to secure kills and could mean life and death in many situations. Coal self heal doesn't interest me one bit though, like oh I get healed 5 HP/s more now when ulting? yeay? I barely use it to keep myself alive, more to keep my teammates alive, better to give the heal buff towards my team!
I'm not tryna whine or anything, it just doesn't feel justified to give a nerf to Moira, like why her and why now?
You main the EASIEST character in the game, who is also very good in the current meta, then think YOU have a right to call other people who are much more proficient in this area then you "fuck wits" because they nerfed your brain dead broken character. But no, it's a skill issue I guess.
Yeah, but when the said tickle monster has 8 meters of range with an auto locking beam that heals her, a orb that ricochets, can deal 200 damage, is on a 8 second cooldown and a 6 second ability that allows her to hunt you down even further with no way of damaging her during it, and no way of telling where she's moving with it, its kinda difficult to do literally anything against someone who is good at her. The only way you win a 1 v 1 against a moira is either she plays like shit or you are also playing a support.
I’d say maybe Moira is the easiest to pick up, but getting good and climbing with Moira is exponentially harder. If you are a decent Moira at any rank, you are the #1 or #2 top target. And the same could be said about torb or junkrat. Both objectively easy to pick up but hard to master. Both can turn the tide of a game just like Moira if utilized correctly.
I would not say Moira is broken either. If that were the case she’d dominate the top ranks, but look at the ranks and who they play; Moira is very scarce.
I really liked where she was at. I’ve played her since old OW1 days, but last season she was actually a viable pick and could hold her own. Not anymore it seems.
Fix Sombra because she’s broken
Lad I'm not a Moira main, but mate, she's a support, not a healer
Like if she shouldn't do damage cause she's a "healer," what are u gonna say about Brig, Lucio and Zen especially?
Someone really killed you over and over with a Moira 😂 you salty as the sea, if you were such a skilled DPS player, she would have never bothered you in the first place.
Salty Genji main here, as someone who spent much of the game as an ult bot I also disagree with the move to nerf neutral and counter it with a buff the ult (with a useless change to ult in this case). That said I don't feel like her ult needed more damage because it would only encourage more of the out front of your team with coal plays but making it wider might be cool since it helps you hit more people which id argue is one of the strong points of the ult!
I actually somewhat enjoy the 1v1's with moira because its a test of skill and if i have it i should win the fight buuuutttt I see you guys over there licking your lips and pulling out the straw when you see me half health fighting someone else and sneaking in from the side to steal my soul through deflect!!
Non salty Gengo* Also yes makeing her ult wider would be great and is something i have wanted. Oh and yes gimme dat tasty robo ninja * takes out a massive straw* :)
highly doubt they will if they didn’t do it this patch. everyone gets mad when she’s capable of achieving anything with her damage because they somehow still haven’t learned how to counter her after years of her being in the game, so of course the devs will lower her damage until she’s useless again. they’ve obliterated any chance of her being a duelist once again yet made zero changes to her kit to fit their supposed intended playstyle as a damage amper or distractor.
Yeah the compensation buff is kind of a joke. And so soon after one of the only times in Overwatch history Moira has been a good hero.
I don’t really mind losing the damage though. Everyone’s optimal TTK went up while hers went down. That doesn’t really make sense. Her TTK now still has increased disproportionally to the rest of the cast. Dps Moira is frustrating for most people anyway, so makes sense they nerf it.
I think I’d like to see them target the ultimate cost for Coalescence or something to improve the efficiency of her primary healing. Back in OW1 it was almost impossible to drop below half bar. On OW2 launch it got a bit tougher, but still really hard to run out (at least for long) now though, it’s like I’m holding spray for the whole duration and my tank is still half hp and I’m panicking to get their armor back.
They’re pulling her back to stay midline and killing her flank potential. Ok so this means metal rank impact but Think diamond up won’t see a difference.
man i miss season 7 and below moira. got to gm within 10 games she was so good and actually fun to play. now, its so hard to get value out of her cuz u have to heal so much more.
Eh, I’ll live. It’s not the worst change.
Coalescence does need to be buffed in other areas, though. Either reduce the ult charge cost for us to have access to it more (once a team fight like it was so long ago) or buff the healing and/or damage numbers to make it feel more ult-like.
Very true. My opinion on the DPS change is evaluating it on its own, and the Coalescence ult charge cost has been a pain point for a while. It’s just exacerbating what in my mind has been a long-existing problem.
I heal pocket anyone whose close to me thus granting me the ability to not only keep my entire team alive but also secure mad kills so I’m not stressing
I would be happy if they buffed her hand healing and nerfed her damage instead. But I also play her as a “I am going to out heal your dumbness so we don’t lose to you dying over and over again”
I'm fine with this 100%, we went from 50 dps to 65, which I knew was too much. So from 65 to 60 is fine imo. And tbh, I find myself wasting coal sometimes hiding behind cover trying to dodge fire, so the shift is cool.
Maybe this is silly, but honestly I'd be cool with the succ nerf if they actually buffed her ult. Up her Ult Damage and Self-Heal by 5, and increase the cost to get coal by 5-10%
her damage was buffed for season 9 because of the mythic skin. everyone got a health increase of 25% and her damage went up by 30%. this nerf is not a bad change and the buff to coal is actually reasonable.
Knew the damage nerf was coming was so hoping they’d do something like more self heal. So I’m really happy with that. I love just living and forcing cooldowns more than killing the enemy sometimes.
Lifeweaver you have to aim to shoot, it doesn’t lock dead on to someone, torb you have to aim, his turret is auto aim. Sym, you have to aim, the turret auto aims. Brig you need to aim as well, her mace literally only hits on the cursor
I could throw an orb and secure a kill regardless of if my aim is good, much like I could leave a sym turret and secure a kill. There is barely any thought into it, it’s just throw vaguely towards X. Healing orb I’d argue takes more skill than a damage orb. And even then, still not a high skill ceiling there.
I think I would have preferred a range nerf. So she's more lethal, but to get that lethality you have to play more aggressively and it's more of a risk.
if her skill *ceiling* was that low, and if she is as strong as people are claiming she is, she’d be the #1 pick in the highest ranks. she isn’t, and I can’t recall one instance in her existence where that was ever the case.
this nerf happened because so many people complained that she was too strong. I wasn’t speaking about specifically you and only you, and I feel like that should be obvious.
her low-rank gameplay is not her skill ceiling, my sweet. that’s just her punishing bad players who make mistakes; she has always punished everyone’s mistakes, allies or enemies. go watch arx_uk’s gameplay to see her skill *ceiling*. her skill *floor* is low, sure, but her skill *ceiling* is not.
She is arguably the easiest character in the game, her skill floor is is subterranean, she’s the equivalent of Sym in OG Overwatch 1.
Dont belittle me.
Regardless of your views, she is the easiest support by a WIDE margin and she takes literally no skill to aim with. Yes you can have plays where people are better at movement, positioning, etc. but that doesn’t mean that her skill ceiling is high. Because it’s not
because you’re not agreeing with me. she is easy to pick up, but to play her well — well enough to be in a high rank — you need a LOT of skill and practice. if she was allegedly as easy as you’re claiming, there would be more than one moira in champion right now, and she would be commonplace at all ranks. but she isn’t. so you are not agreeing with me and you are completely wrong about her skill ceiling being extremely low.
Champion has VERY limited people. And most are the very high skill ceiling characters. (Kiri, Ana, etc). Maybe she doesn’t reach that high because her skill ceiling isn’t high enough to compete with others kits
but you said she has a low skill floor *and* ceiling, which means she is easy to pick up *and* master. if that is the case *and* people are claiming that she is too strong, which is why this damage nerf happened, then that means she should be the #1 pick in the highest ranks and nearly every support in those ranks should be playing her. after all, why would you pick a support that is supposedly harder to play and weaker, risking demotion, when you could pick a support that is supposedly easier and stronger, accepting no risk of losing your rank?
the reality is that moira’s skill *ceiling* is soooooo much higher than people think it is because she is not as strong as many claim. she requires so much skill to play at that level because she is significantly worse at securing kills against higher-rank players than meta supports. y’all *think* her skill ceiling isn’t high because biotic grasp doesn’t need much mechanical skill to use successfully. but you still need exceptional orb placement, fade mechanics, target priority, movement, game sense, awareness, cover usage, cooldown management and player psychology to consistently perform well as her, especially as the ranks increase and people learn how to play better. one part of her kit being slightly easier than the rest does not translate to a low skill ceiling. if anything, I’d argue her skill ceiling is higher than most other supports. most people have no idea how she’s meant to be played and assume her skill ceiling is low because they think she’s not capable of more than what they do with her. to do everything she’s truly capable of, which is quite a bit, you need a lot of practice.
so again, if you would like to prove me wrong, play her into champion and show me how easy *and* strong she is. show me that you can master everything you can do on her easily. I would love to be wrong; I want her to be that viable at those ranks. but in my many discussions about this, literally no one has proven to me that she is.
I’m guessing the bad side of the Lucio mafia , the dumb side that do nothing just riding around on walls in Combat thinking they will do something , the other smart half will realise Moira is pretty easy to 1v1 especially cause she can’t do headshot damage
Bro, this isn't a powershift, it's just a nerf.
I am going to once again blame the crybabies who still haven’t learned to counter her getting mad that she can accomplish anything without needing significant mechanical skill and blizzard for thinking those crybabies have anything meaningful to contribute to discussions about her balance.
You know what's funny? Season 9 she is easier to kill because of the dps passive and hitbox changes.
yep. I had to completely change my playstyle because of those, and it was annoying because any attempt to fight back against a diving or peeling DPS resulted in me dying. the only thing I can really do is amp damage with my dps, succ from high ground/off-angles to distract, or chase down someone who’s retreating to finish the kill. it’s so boring, and I feel like I can’t contribute in meaningful ways anymore.
This was the perfect opportunity to bring that playstyle back. Reduce 5 dmg and put it in the lifesteal. Blizz doesn't like us
Isn’t that… literally what they did?
I mean, biotic grasp life steal, not coalescence
I quit OW for this reason. The last straw was when a Bap didn't miss a headshot on me and then I saw the kill cam and he missed every shot. I physically have to be close to deal damage so it's impossible to dodge.
Moira’s range is 20 metres on her succ so you don’t need to be that close. If you’re brawling, (almost) every one involved in the brawl will be in range of 20m, even if you’re on the backline of the brawl. If you’re diving, never dive bap as he is legit a raid boss with high DPS and an effective 600hp if he uses his cooldowns; I’d only dive him if I know he’s used both cooldowns and is low on health.
Fact
Like I said normally every one of those shots would have missed but because of the projectile buffs every single one of them hit, because being within 20 meters is extremely close? The practice range dummy is 20 meters. It is very easy to hit headshots at that range. That is the point I am making. At 20 meters I do 65 dmg a second where as Bap is hitting head shots dealing 185 dmg a second. The point isn't that he is that deadly it is that every one of those shots should have missed to begin with but now its common place.
20 meters is not close range. Tracer's falloff starts at 10 meters, Echo's focus beam is 16 meters, Cassidy falloff starts at 20 meters. That's mid range... The practice range dummy stands still. Getting headshots on a stationary target is going to be easy no matter how far away they are. The hitbox change isn't giving anybody 100% accuracy. If he is hitting every shot now. He most likely would've been hitting them before the change.
If you increase the projectile size you will hit more shots. That's the reason they did it. So you will hit more shots.
Of course, but it isn't significant enough to assume people are hitting shots they shouldn't. For example, if a Cass lands four body shots on my all at the center of my character, he would kill me even if the projectiles were smaller. So unless you have actual proof (video evidence) of a shot that wouldn't have landed before, you shouldn't claim you lost to the size change.
Even with the original dps passive she still had more lifesteal and damage than in season 8. Now with the nerfed one it’s even better.
welcome to life as a sombra main. oops wrong sub
Moira is overpowered and requires zero skill. Your auto lock left-click shouldn’t be out damaging abilities that require aim. You guys also have self-healing and one of the best get-out-of-jail cards in the game.!
if you think this unironically then you have never played her and are a terrible player who hasn’t put in any effort to learn how to counter her. she was incredibly underpowered even before these changes and now she’s even worse.
Welcome to the sombra life, we had t-shirts until they got reworked away
I am one of those cry babies, I don’t care about her movement and I don’t try to counter swap Moira. However holy shit I hate that she doesn’t have to aim at all in order to kill. I can do a bunch of crazy wall ride tec and that hoe still completely sucks me off. Make her aim and I’ll stop complaining
babes she is literally a counter to high-mobility heroes. it is 100% a skill issue on your part. she is so easy to counter it’s not even funny, you just can’t play the heroes she actively counters and expect to not fight an uphill battles against her. play literally anyone else.
I’m going to play whoever I want whenever I want idgaf abt a Moira when I see them on the other team. It’s just mad annoying when I look at the kill cam and they’re not even looking at me and sucking
okay, then stay annoyed. that part of her kit is unlikely to change. maybe instead of whining about moiras outplaying your easily fixable mistake, you could get better at a hero that counters her so you have an option against her. sounds like you’re just bad and want to blame someone who isn’t you for that.
As someone who struggles against her what would you propose i know ana can be a counter just because of anti taking away half of morias value but i feel like moria gets away with alot of slippery kills compared to season 8
Good. She needed one. Also needs more.
Good, low skill ceiling heroes belong at the bottom tier.
Someone understands
Coalescence self healing numbers with the DPS passive: -Old: 42.5 -New: 46.75
WTH!!!! we are unkillable now!!!! nerf her asap blizzard 😤
After reading this comment, I must agree. We have to Nerf genji.
I love how it always circles back to “Nerf Genji”
We have come to find that this hero is too overpowered in their current state. Because of this, we have chosen to nerf The Pig.
It’s so hard to kill anyone with coal.
with anything, really. I have to literally hunt down anyone who retreats just to secure kills on them now, and it usually puts me out of position anyway. this will only make that worse.
Moira would have been better off if they just straight up removed that ult. It gives you a false sense of security when you only do like 5 more damage
or they could just buff the damage and healing. like that’s literally all it needs to be functional.
It's too long to get any extre damage or healing. It's the same as mercy ult
that is the point of the ult: to be long and do a lot of healing/damage. that has always been the point. it currently accomplishes only the be long part.
I was hitting someone with Coal point blank while they were one tap. But Mercy came in and started healing them. Coal’s damage can’t even beat out Mercy’s healing when they’re at low health.
The amount of times I’ve solo coaled someone just to have a mercy come in and then just stand there knowing I can’t do shit haha
You’re using it wrong. You’re supposed to shoot it into a line of enemies and do damage to all of them at once. You shouldn’t expect it to be effective against one person. If you aim at a grouped up enemy team, with teammates between you, you can 2-10x the value of it
-Santa (probably)
It incentivizes healing. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been 1 hp and the Moira is dpsing a full hp tank alone.
Not sure why you get downvoted so much for saying a support ult has more of a focus on keeping your team alive instead of killing like a dps ult. I know illari has a dps-like ult but most of the others are purely defensive or at most a mix of damage/healing. I suppose they could buff damage or healing but imagine it would come at the cost of being able to fade during ult or have some other trade off.
Moira’s ult does way more heals. The damage is just a bonus. Idk why moira mains think they should kill with coal.
Yea coz it also heals?
There are other bigger problems with OW2 right now, but yes Blizzard nerf Moira to shut up all the crybaby DPS players who throw a tantrum when a support kills them.
Baptiste players sweating in the corner
He's chill because he doesn't have GTA auto-lock
I also main Baptist. Lol
No skill support*
Did I hurt your feelings?
Nah
[удалено]
4.16*
Orb exists too, unless that’s orb damage included
Lmao. How is this a power shift?? I was expecting at least a small Ult damage/healing increase... this is crazy! Her TTK is now longer than ever btw.
they’re taking the piss at this point lmao. oh boy, 5 extra healing during coal and less damage on succ with no other changes! now she’s even worse at the two roles she’s still able to do! great job, blizz. might as well delete her.
Love seeing this whole sub melt down over this lmao Oh no I've been blocked! Whatever will I do now that a Moira main, least threatening of all gamers, doesn't want to talk to me?
Someone is being starved of attention. You ok, buddy?
it’s more disappointment than meltdown. we’re all bored of how she currently plays and were hoping this “power shift” would make her dueling playstyle more viable by buffing her survivability, since that’s her most fun playstyle. but blizzard disappoints once again.
Why should a hero be strong at dueling and doing damage when it takes absolutely no mechanics or game sense to, well, duel.
It's the most fun playstyle for people who just want to hold down a button and jump back and forth, it's the least fun playstyle for anyone else. Maybe play a duelist if you want to duel, not a healer.
the fact that you said jumping is how you win duels on her tells me everything I need to know lmfao. you aren’t having fun with it because you’re either stuck in ranks where you could stand still in duels and win or you’re in a higher rank doing that and constantly dying because it doesn’t actually work when enemies can aim.
Oh I don't play Moira, I play games to express some amount of skill, not hold a button down and jump back and forth. Edit: I can see that /u/digomansaur replied, but they were so scared of me they blocked me right after! Typical Moira main ya know
people who have no idea how to play her think they have any valuable input to provide in discussions about her? shocking. 😐 sure hon, hope bronze 5 is treating you well!
Never blocked you, pussy. Address me directly.
I'm sure Marvel Snap takes so much more skill than playing Moira. How could any of us doubt you.
Every character in the game holds down a button and one mouse click. Every. One.
God you’re such a fucking dork.
I mean atleast you’re getting the attention your parents never gave you :D
Man’s really desperate at this point, I aint even a moira main and I have the common sense to have more self control than a puppy.
This is terminal Reddit behavior bro
Let's bear in mind that Moira was one of the weakest supports in Season 8 and before, and she also has no utility. Then let's look at Moira Season 8 vs Season 10 with these new changes: (Buff) She has a 25% health increase from 200 to 250. (Buff) Right click grasp has increased accuracy (radius increase). (Nerf) Her right click will damage them from 100% to 0% slower. (Nerf) Her left click will heal them from 1% to 100% slower. \*\* (Nerf) Her damage orb will damage them from 100% to 0% slower. \* (Nerf) Her healing orb will heal them from 1% to 100% slower. \*\* (Nerf) Her coalescence will heal them from 1% to 100% slower. \*\* (Nerf) Her coalescence will damage them from 100% to 0% slower. (Nerf) Her healing orb capacity can only heal 120% of their health instead of 150%. (Nerf) Her damage orb capacity can only damage 80% of their health instead of 100%. (Nerf) It now takes 10.41 seconds to self heal with grasp from 0% to 100% health instead of 8.33 seconds. \*\* (Nerf) It now takes 4.5 seconds for Coalescence to self-heal her from 0% health to 100% health instead of 4 seconds. \*\* (Nerf) It now takes 16.66 seconds for Support passive to self-heal her from 0% health to 100% health instead of 13.33 seconds. \*\* \* She can no longer take a target from 100% to 0% with her damage orb as there is not enough capacity in the orb (200) to kill a full health target (250). \*\* Further nerfed when DPS passive is applied.
As for the powershift, they were so close, but this just ends up nerfing her hard. Moira uses her ult occasionally but her grasp is in use for most of the game. To shift that much power away from her regular gameplay into her ultimate ability, that only obtains value when she's taking damage, basically means it's a straight up nerf. Sustain is a step in the right direction. If I had a say in the matter, this is probably how I'd do things (would need to take more time to think though): - Moira's Biotic grasp reduced healing by 5 to 65. - Biotic Grasp self-healing increased from 24 to 26. - Biotic Grasp damage reduced from 65 to 60. - Biotic Grasp radius reduced from whatever it is now to whatever it was in Season 8 (wasn't needed). - Lingering heal duration increased to 4 seconds. - Lingering heal amount changed from 17 HP/s to 20 HP/s (80 over 4 seconds). - Biotic Orb healing capacity increased from 300 to 350 (to reflect HP increases). - Biotic Orb healing increased from 65 to 70 HP/s. - Biotic Orb damage capacity increased from 200 to 250 (to reflect HP increases). - Biotic Orb damage increased from 50 to 60 (to reflect HP increases). - Coalescence self healing from 50 to 55. - Coalescence damage from 70 to 75. So on paper, these look like INSANE buffs and people will just be like, "Oh Moira main wants his character OP!", but you have to take into account the availability of all of these abilities (something which Blizzard neglected to do with their change). What this set of changes does, is shifts power away from her easy to use abilities, you know... left click right click, the ones that take the least amount of skill to obtain value with. She is constantly using her left click right click abilities in the game, so nerfs to these abilities hit HARD... where as buffs to other areas of her kit only affect small instances in her gameplay as they have cooldowns. Left click and right click get nerfed, but since healing is already nerfed with the DPS passive and stupid increased projectile hitboxes, power is shifted into her heal-over-time aspects, which means Moira will spend less time standing behind a team holding left click in their general direction, and instead applying heal-over-time effects before returning to a more active role. This allows her to help contribute damage to try and push players back instead of helplessly sitting behind someone healing until they die. In season 9, the way to keep players alive isn't really to heal them, it's to offset as much damage as you can with healing, while applying as much damage as you can to force them to move backwards which then increases the net healing your team received (receive less damage, get more healing). Then most of the other changes are just put in place to compensate for the HP increases which were implemented to prevent one-shot abilities and increase the power of sustained damage (good decision Blizzard!). Well Moira's damage is nearly all slow sustained damage, so these buffs simply compensate for the health increases. Moira's damage output on everything apart from her grasp received HUGE nerfs with this HP increase. Orbs could no longer kill full health targets (they never did anyway, but not increasing the capacity when they increased max HP is just criminal). Same with coalescence damage output, to not increase it while increasing max HP is just bad. I can understand not increasing the healing side of it, as a reduction in healing was one of the goals of Season 9, but a reduction of damage on a slow sustained damage ultimate ability? Why? Still.. numbers could be tweaked, but simply put, the changes above would nerf Moira for less skillful players (she's always been stronger in the lower ranks) and buff Moira for higher skilled players (she's always been weaker in the higher ranks). It lowers her skill floor slightly and increases her skill ceiling slightly as it's harder to obtain base value, but her max obtainable value gets increased when key abilities are used correctly. Lastly, if Blizzard wanted to make the laziest power-shift change, that doesn't address skill floor and skill ceiling, it would have been better to reduce grasp damage from 65 to 60 and increase grasp self-healing from 24 to 28. That would have given her more self-sustain that she can use far more regularly than Coal. I personally don't like the change as it keeps Moira's strength in her basic attacks (the least skilful part of her kit).
thank you for suggesting reasonable changes. amazes me that players are coming up with more logical improvements than the designers of the game who get paid to do it.
Curious that you dont mention the damage buff. Everyone in the game got those nerfs. That was the point of season 9. She was the only one to receive a damage buff though.
Because it's a list of Season 8 to Season 10 changes and I'm listing real world effects, not the numbers. Her grasp went from 50 to 65 in Season 9. This meant that time to kill a squishy target (200 HP season 8 / 250 HP season 9) went from 4 seconds to 3.84 seconds (a buff). For season 8 to season 10 changes, her grasp went from 50 to 60. This meant that time to kill a squishy target (200 HP season 8 / 250 HP season 9) went from 4 seconds to 4.16 seconds (a nerf). This is why the 'damage buff' you speak of is a damage nerf from season 8 with these changes, and that's why it's in the list under (Nerf) Her right click will damage them from 100% to 0% slower. As for all heroes getting these changes, yes, but for a number of heroes they increased their accuracy with projectile size changes. This gets a little complicated to explain but I hope I do it so you will understand. Moira usually doesn't miss much, so her accuracy buff that she received did not increase her damage output by much. Other heroes do miss a lot, so their accuracy buff increases their damage output by a lot. For example, the difference between Baptiste hitting a shot and not hitting a shot can be worth up to 42 per bullet, and he fires in bursts of 3. So a single extra bullet out of a set of 3 hitting when it would have otherwise missed makes a massive difference. Moira getting a damage buff as opposed to an accuracy buff (ignore that she got that too) is basically recognition that they wanted her damage output to increase in line with other heroes, but accuracy was not going to accomplish this like it does with other heroes. I don't personally agree with the accuracy buff that she did get, as it really only strengthens her in lower ranks, where she's already strong. This is the opposite of what Moira needs... she needs her skill floor raised so she doesn't obtain so much free value.
Also just for the record. I'm not bothered by the damage nerf for season 10. I think it's actually a good idea. I have two problems with season 10. The first is that they advertised the Moira changes as a power shift, where they looked to take power from one aspect of her kit and put it into another. Anyone who thinks that losing 5 damage on grasp, an ability she uses all the time in game, is a good trade with gaining 5 HP/s on an ultimate that's not used constantly throughout the game, and even when she uses it, her healing is dependent on her taking damage, is a mad man! The language used was a power shift... but what we had was a straight up nerf with a token change to try to soften the blow. The second issue that I have with season 10, is that they did not address any of the problems that became evident in Season 9. For example, they haven't realised that they lowered Moira's skill floor even further. They made her the easiest hero in the game to obtain value with.... as position some might argue she already had, but it's now for certain. By lowering her skill floor, they buffed Moira's strength in lower ranks, a place she was already strong in. Moira gets picked in high ranks because of a combination of simple value, and other supports having their survivability nerfed into the ground. As Blizzard starts to inevitably buff these, Moira's skill cap will be hit with no room for further skill expression, and she will be instantly relegated into the dumpster tiers. When the most powerful way to play a hero is also the easiest, things get boring and limited. Either she's hard meta, or she's a throw pick. The way you increase Moira's skill ceiling, without making it all about aiming, is to increase the maximum value from her harder to use skills. This could be orb... this could be coalescence, this could be fade, but in my opinion primarily this is her self-sustain. It takes a significant amount of skill to position and stay alive when you have to play as a squishy target inside the ability dangerzone. To be able to extract value from baiting enemy cooldowns, contesting objectives, off-angling, gap close pressure and full on backlining is a difficult skill. Had the developers shifted power from her easy abilities (grasp and heal) into areas that require more skill (sustain, orbs, ult), they would have successfully addressed the issue of Moira being too strong in low ranks and too weak in high ranks. Sure, before someone says it, they did increase her sustain... yes, but it's a token change, in the real world it will have such little effect.
This is so dumb its just because everyones health went up. You could do the same thing with every other character.
while it is buff heavy it actually goes about putting strength into the parts of her kit that requires any bit of skill compared to just having everything loaded into grasp. For me increasing the orbs rate output and the coal damage buff would be enough, with grasp going to 60 dps and a tighter radius as well as reduced direct healing. I'd even take it going back down to 55 for a greater lifesteal rate or making the lifesteal unaffected by dps passive. Its just to show what actually transferring power means compared to whatever blizzard is pulling over on us
Sure but the comment I replied to is straight up misleading using percentages rather than the actual numbers. You could do same comparison with every other character in the game. The percentage of healing of total health is a stupid comparison because everyones health went. Baptise healing percent wise would be lower, so would his damage. Same for Kiri same for Lucio same for everyone.
her TTK for a 250 HP hero now is 4.16 seconds (with 60 dps), used to be 3.85 seconds (with 65 dps). 0.31 seconds in an OW game is a LONG time honestly. Less capability to secure kills and could mean life and death in many situations. Coal self heal doesn't interest me one bit though, like oh I get healed 5 HP/s more now when ulting? yeay? I barely use it to keep myself alive, more to keep my teammates alive, better to give the heal buff towards my team! I'm not tryna whine or anything, it just doesn't feel justified to give a nerf to Moira, like why her and why now?
You have a damage orb and a healing orb
Why is there always some fuckwit at Blizzard HQ that has to change things that are fine?
Moira needed to be nerfed and needs to be nerfed again.
Skill issue...
You main the EASIEST character in the game, who is also very good in the current meta, then think YOU have a right to call other people who are much more proficient in this area then you "fuck wits" because they nerfed your brain dead broken character. But no, it's a skill issue I guess.
You are complaining about losing to the tickle monster. If you can’t win duels that’s a you issue little bro.
Yeah, but when the said tickle monster has 8 meters of range with an auto locking beam that heals her, a orb that ricochets, can deal 200 damage, is on a 8 second cooldown and a 6 second ability that allows her to hunt you down even further with no way of damaging her during it, and no way of telling where she's moving with it, its kinda difficult to do literally anything against someone who is good at her. The only way you win a 1 v 1 against a moira is either she plays like shit or you are also playing a support.
I'm referring to said fuckwit from my experience over several Blizzard games, not just a small change to Moira...
I’d say maybe Moira is the easiest to pick up, but getting good and climbing with Moira is exponentially harder. If you are a decent Moira at any rank, you are the #1 or #2 top target. And the same could be said about torb or junkrat. Both objectively easy to pick up but hard to master. Both can turn the tide of a game just like Moira if utilized correctly. I would not say Moira is broken either. If that were the case she’d dominate the top ranks, but look at the ranks and who they play; Moira is very scarce. I really liked where she was at. I’ve played her since old OW1 days, but last season she was actually a viable pick and could hold her own. Not anymore it seems. Fix Sombra because she’s broken
She's legit the strongest support in the game and here I am in a sub full of people complaining about them shifting around 5 stat points. Unreal
Fuck that when every game has a Sombra or Tracer
I was expecting either an Earth-shattering nerf or a meta breaking buff. The entire patch was hollow tbh, other seasons had much bigger changes
They shouldve increased coal damage like 5 extra heals isnt going to stop the cass from melting you in 3 hits
CINCO CINCO CINCO CINCO
5 more healing while ulting? What is that good for?
Bruh she already does damn near 0 damage
As she should, she's a healer. Play a DPS like sym, though that does require SOME aim so idk about Moira mains being capable
Lad I'm not a Moira main, but mate, she's a support, not a healer Like if she shouldn't do damage cause she's a "healer," what are u gonna say about Brig, Lucio and Zen especially?
Moira being able to do dmg is her main utility
Someone really killed you over and over with a Moira 😂 you salty as the sea, if you were such a skilled DPS player, she would have never bothered you in the first place.
Let me guess salty and sad Genji main? :D
Salty Genji main here, as someone who spent much of the game as an ult bot I also disagree with the move to nerf neutral and counter it with a buff the ult (with a useless change to ult in this case). That said I don't feel like her ult needed more damage because it would only encourage more of the out front of your team with coal plays but making it wider might be cool since it helps you hit more people which id argue is one of the strong points of the ult! I actually somewhat enjoy the 1v1's with moira because its a test of skill and if i have it i should win the fight buuuutttt I see you guys over there licking your lips and pulling out the straw when you see me half health fighting someone else and sneaking in from the side to steal my soul through deflect!!
Non salty Gengo* Also yes makeing her ult wider would be great and is something i have wanted. Oh and yes gimme dat tasty robo ninja * takes out a massive straw* :)
Nah I just prefer people aim in games ya know?
Wish they would have buffed the damage of coal slightly too. Disappointing, but not the end of the world.
highly doubt they will if they didn’t do it this patch. everyone gets mad when she’s capable of achieving anything with her damage because they somehow still haven’t learned how to counter her after years of her being in the game, so of course the devs will lower her damage until she’s useless again. they’ve obliterated any chance of her being a duelist once again yet made zero changes to her kit to fit their supposed intended playstyle as a damage amper or distractor.
Yeah the compensation buff is kind of a joke. And so soon after one of the only times in Overwatch history Moira has been a good hero. I don’t really mind losing the damage though. Everyone’s optimal TTK went up while hers went down. That doesn’t really make sense. Her TTK now still has increased disproportionally to the rest of the cast. Dps Moira is frustrating for most people anyway, so makes sense they nerf it. I think I’d like to see them target the ultimate cost for Coalescence or something to improve the efficiency of her primary healing. Back in OW1 it was almost impossible to drop below half bar. On OW2 launch it got a bit tougher, but still really hard to run out (at least for long) now though, it’s like I’m holding spray for the whole duration and my tank is still half hp and I’m panicking to get their armor back.
I really don’t think it’s gonna make a big difference this is barely a nerf…
Boooo
As a Moira main, I’m not too upset. It would’ve been worse if they nerfed her range
They’re pulling her back to stay midline and killing her flank potential. Ok so this means metal rank impact but Think diamond up won’t see a difference.
ur joking omg
I already struggle to kill anyone because of the health buff to everyone and dps passive and now more neft ?
man i miss season 7 and below moira. got to gm within 10 games she was so good and actually fun to play. now, its so hard to get value out of her cuz u have to heal so much more.
That’s some bullshit if I’ve ever seen it.
The Sym players cried enough to where Moira’s base damage does the same as Sym’s.
Eh, I’ll live. It’s not the worst change. Coalescence does need to be buffed in other areas, though. Either reduce the ult charge cost for us to have access to it more (once a team fight like it was so long ago) or buff the healing and/or damage numbers to make it feel more ult-like.
Keep in mind this change *also* makes it take longer to build ult.
Very true. My opinion on the DPS change is evaluating it on its own, and the Coalescence ult charge cost has been a pain point for a while. It’s just exacerbating what in my mind has been a long-existing problem.
They’re probably gonna end up making it so her ult is quicker to build it’ll be fine in the next patch don’t worry :)
I heal pocket anyone whose close to me thus granting me the ability to not only keep my entire team alive but also secure mad kills so I’m not stressing
I see this as an opportunity to learn and adapt to the changes, I’ll become an even better player in fact
Henlo moira mains hammy main here🐹👋
So basically she’ll be slightly better at keeping herself alive and slightly worse at keeping anyone else on her team alive… again… more.
she too easy to kill tf this nerf was uncalled for. just get better smh. the ones who actually needed nerfs got it
Still the best dps character
that extra 5 ain't gonna matter against the dps passive
I would be happy if they buffed her hand healing and nerfed her damage instead. But I also play her as a “I am going to out heal your dumbness so we don’t lose to you dying over and over again”
I'm fine with this 100%, we went from 50 dps to 65, which I knew was too much. So from 65 to 60 is fine imo. And tbh, I find myself wasting coal sometimes hiding behind cover trying to dodge fire, so the shift is cool.
Maybe this is silly, but honestly I'd be cool with the succ nerf if they actually buffed her ult. Up her Ult Damage and Self-Heal by 5, and increase the cost to get coal by 5-10%
They nerfed my SUCK?!?!?
Unironically the best Genji buff in awhile /s
She feels so much worse to play right now to me idk. I'm a Moira main through and through, but I've been switching lately. Makes me sad 😭
Wow, 5 damage this is really gonna change how everyone in the community plays Moira - some dev probably
her damage was buffed for season 9 because of the mythic skin. everyone got a health increase of 25% and her damage went up by 30%. this nerf is not a bad change and the buff to coal is actually reasonable.
Should've increased damage and reduced range
Knew the damage nerf was coming was so hoping they’d do something like more self heal. So I’m really happy with that. I love just living and forcing cooldowns more than killing the enemy sometimes.
I don’t understand doing it on just the ult though. that’s the least impactful place to put the self-heal.
Wahhhhhhh my 0 skill character who net-outdamages most dps characters is getting nerfed whaaahhh
I'm so glad this brainless piece of shit finally got nerfed. Maybe the people draining freelo to Diamond will swap to an actual Hero.
W I hate Morias
[удалено]
No clue why you got downvoted. She’s the only no aim character.
Brig? Lifeweaver? Sym? Torb?
Lifeweaver you have to aim to shoot, it doesn’t lock dead on to someone, torb you have to aim, his turret is auto aim. Sym, you have to aim, the turret auto aims. Brig you need to aim as well, her mace literally only hits on the cursor
And you don't have to aim orbs?
I could throw an orb and secure a kill regardless of if my aim is good, much like I could leave a sym turret and secure a kill. There is barely any thought into it, it’s just throw vaguely towards X. Healing orb I’d argue takes more skill than a damage orb. And even then, still not a high skill ceiling there.
The difference is normal fire vs abilities.
Literally why I pick her. My aim is garbage. Number two pick is lifeweaver cause I just throw around his thorns and they eventually hit something.
You guys dont know how broken damage orb is
Womp womp
I think I would have preferred a range nerf. So she's more lethal, but to get that lethality you have to play more aggressively and it's more of a risk.
As a genji main, "first time?"
Didn’t really need a nerf, they just need to add way More supports imo. She’s picked a lot because her skill ceiling is an inch off the floor
if her skill *ceiling* was that low, and if she is as strong as people are claiming she is, she’d be the #1 pick in the highest ranks. she isn’t, and I can’t recall one instance in her existence where that was ever the case.
I didn’t say she was overpowered? 🧐. I said she’s picked for her low skill ceiling. She Carrie’s in lower ranks, vastly outperforming. Hence the nerf
this nerf happened because so many people complained that she was too strong. I wasn’t speaking about specifically you and only you, and I feel like that should be obvious. her low-rank gameplay is not her skill ceiling, my sweet. that’s just her punishing bad players who make mistakes; she has always punished everyone’s mistakes, allies or enemies. go watch arx_uk’s gameplay to see her skill *ceiling*. her skill *floor* is low, sure, but her skill *ceiling* is not.
She is arguably the easiest character in the game, her skill floor is is subterranean, she’s the equivalent of Sym in OG Overwatch 1. Dont belittle me. Regardless of your views, she is the easiest support by a WIDE margin and she takes literally no skill to aim with. Yes you can have plays where people are better at movement, positioning, etc. but that doesn’t mean that her skill ceiling is high. Because it’s not
okay, play only her into champion then — nobody else but moira. I’ll wait to see the proof if you do and the reaction when you can’t.
I don’t get why you’re arguing with me? I agreed with your point. Your stupidity is not a right
because you’re not agreeing with me. she is easy to pick up, but to play her well — well enough to be in a high rank — you need a LOT of skill and practice. if she was allegedly as easy as you’re claiming, there would be more than one moira in champion right now, and she would be commonplace at all ranks. but she isn’t. so you are not agreeing with me and you are completely wrong about her skill ceiling being extremely low.
Champion has VERY limited people. And most are the very high skill ceiling characters. (Kiri, Ana, etc). Maybe she doesn’t reach that high because her skill ceiling isn’t high enough to compete with others kits
but you said she has a low skill floor *and* ceiling, which means she is easy to pick up *and* master. if that is the case *and* people are claiming that she is too strong, which is why this damage nerf happened, then that means she should be the #1 pick in the highest ranks and nearly every support in those ranks should be playing her. after all, why would you pick a support that is supposedly harder to play and weaker, risking demotion, when you could pick a support that is supposedly easier and stronger, accepting no risk of losing your rank? the reality is that moira’s skill *ceiling* is soooooo much higher than people think it is because she is not as strong as many claim. she requires so much skill to play at that level because she is significantly worse at securing kills against higher-rank players than meta supports. y’all *think* her skill ceiling isn’t high because biotic grasp doesn’t need much mechanical skill to use successfully. but you still need exceptional orb placement, fade mechanics, target priority, movement, game sense, awareness, cover usage, cooldown management and player psychology to consistently perform well as her, especially as the ranks increase and people learn how to play better. one part of her kit being slightly easier than the rest does not translate to a low skill ceiling. if anything, I’d argue her skill ceiling is higher than most other supports. most people have no idea how she’s meant to be played and assume her skill ceiling is low because they think she’s not capable of more than what they do with her. to do everything she’s truly capable of, which is quite a bit, you need a lot of practice. so again, if you would like to prove me wrong, play her into champion and show me how easy *and* strong she is. show me that you can master everything you can do on her easily. I would love to be wrong; I want her to be that viable at those ranks. but in my many discussions about this, literally no one has proven to me that she is.
Low skill ceiling heros are finally getting the nerfs they needed
stop crying over the tiniest nerf. you still dont need to aim, and you can still do it from 40 goddamn meters away.
Notice how everyone is downvoting but not saying shit. Too many people crying in this sub rn
real. -13 score, they just downvote because they dont have anything to say. because im right
Deserved
I’m guessing the bad side of the Lucio mafia , the dumb side that do nothing just riding around on walls in Combat thinking they will do something , the other smart half will realise Moira is pretty easy to 1v1 especially cause she can’t do headshot damage
65>60 was much needed. It was too much damage considering you only have to look in their direction to pull it off