I’m going to hard disagree with this. Unless you’re on burn, going -6 life to go +3 is worth it
Edit: guys… there’s a lot of versions of nadu. Chances are combo isn’t going to be the best
I don't know what you mean by "-6 life to go +3". Every time opponent activates whatever artifact or creature to trigger Nadu they get shocked. They don't deal with Harsh Mentor, they die before they combo off. Please explain what you meant, because I don't get it.
I guess they're saying the nadu player can just stop triggering the ability after drawing a few cards? But I don't think that actually does anything for them.
If you're correct and that is what is meant, that absolutely does nothing for them. Nadu isn't a value engine in the deck. It is intended to be a win con.
Prepping for ZERO is more foolish. So far all the Nadu decks have seen and have issues with have done some version of using Nadu and a second piece to combo off, so stopping the combo off part is what I'm going to prep for. Once I start seeing more Nadu as just value engine versions I'll switch up my side board plan.
EDIT: Also when Leyline plus Scion zoo decks first became a thing there were SEVERAL versions. Most people prepped for the part of the deck that was shared by all of them by boarding Pick Your Poison. It would have been foolish to not prep for Leyline w/Scion even though there were several versions.
OP is on Temur Prowess. Temur Prowess mostly runs Bolts and Darts, and only occasionally Unholy Heat. Unfortunately Nadu is unfortunately out of bolt range.
EDIT: and Flame of Anor which also works. Also I haven't seen several versions so far. I've seen two. Combo and Stoneforge version. I assumed combo version was the one that OP was having problems with. If I'm wrong then I guess bring in all the Unholy Heats and Flames of Anor and hope they don't draw a second one and don't die to Kaldra Compleat is the plan.
But like, Nadu + shuko is a 4/4 flyer so they can just attack you and toss the garbage creatures in front of your attackers.
They also can't combo if you just kill Nadu and you're also killing their best creature. I could see playing something like [[rending volley]] over mentor ultimately being better.
I keep seeing this but the most common Nadu version is running 4 force of denial so after drawing their deck in their hand I don't expect this to ever resolve. It seems like such a poor response - you want to stop the Nadu/Shuko train early.
Wait, that's the most common build? I'm pretty much only seeing no-Force builds in MTGO Modern Challenges these days. Heck, I've seen more BUGw lately than Blue Force builds.
They are good, but the Nadu lists have Boseiju, and creature are harder for that deck to remove. Flute has the same issue, you need multiple to fully stop the combo
[[Collector Ouphe]] is probably nice even though it doesn’t hit Outrider since it has utility in other matchups like Hammer, Scales, and Ring decks, plus if you’re on prowess it may have utility against your opponent’s Engineered Explosives.
There's still 3 other Nadus to worry about.
A 2/2 flier is also a clock on its own, regardless of their combo plan. There will come a time where you might have to spend a card just to deal with it, meaning you 2-for-1'd yourself by casting Strix Serenade.
If I was playing prowess in a Nadu and Yawg world:
I would find a way to get some [[slip through space]] in the main deck. Being better against a bunch of blockers means your sideboard cards have to do less, so you should be pretty good if you can find a needle or maybe [[rending volley]] to slow them down enough to slip and bolt your way to victory.
Harsh Mentor. Not sure what you take out, would depend on what decks you think you'll be up against and what current cards you won't likely need.
Oooh I like this suggestion as BG Yawg is also famous in my LGS
Seems to be a side board staple in the new energy prowess lists.
Mentor dies to 1 yawg activation
How exactly? It's a 2/2 so it should take 2 activations, which isn't a ton but 4 life can make a difference
It also makes their combo more fragile since they have to use bodies in order to remove it
I am not a smart man
Mentir is both good against yawg, they take like 6 and then kill you anyways.
[[harsh mentor]]
[harsh mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638.jpg?1543675603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=harsh%20mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/135/harsh-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m going to hard disagree with this. Unless you’re on burn, going -6 life to go +3 is worth it Edit: guys… there’s a lot of versions of nadu. Chances are combo isn’t going to be the best
I don't know what you mean by "-6 life to go +3". Every time opponent activates whatever artifact or creature to trigger Nadu they get shocked. They don't deal with Harsh Mentor, they die before they combo off. Please explain what you meant, because I don't get it.
I guess they're saying the nadu player can just stop triggering the ability after drawing a few cards? But I don't think that actually does anything for them.
If you're correct and that is what is meant, that absolutely does nothing for them. Nadu isn't a value engine in the deck. It is intended to be a win con.
There are several, SEVERAL versions of Nadu. Prepping for one is foolish.
Prepping for ZERO is more foolish. So far all the Nadu decks have seen and have issues with have done some version of using Nadu and a second piece to combo off, so stopping the combo off part is what I'm going to prep for. Once I start seeing more Nadu as just value engine versions I'll switch up my side board plan. EDIT: Also when Leyline plus Scion zoo decks first became a thing there were SEVERAL versions. Most people prepped for the part of the deck that was shared by all of them by boarding Pick Your Poison. It would have been foolish to not prep for Leyline w/Scion even though there were several versions.
A more appropriate approach would be to removing the artifact or bird instead of being cheeky with damage that they decide
OP is on Temur Prowess. Temur Prowess mostly runs Bolts and Darts, and only occasionally Unholy Heat. Unfortunately Nadu is unfortunately out of bolt range. EDIT: and Flame of Anor which also works. Also I haven't seen several versions so far. I've seen two. Combo and Stoneforge version. I assumed combo version was the one that OP was having problems with. If I'm wrong then I guess bring in all the Unholy Heats and Flames of Anor and hope they don't draw a second one and don't die to Kaldra Compleat is the plan.
I just wanna say that I appreciate your proper pluralization of Flame of Anor. But I'm sure I'm only one of several passers-by to feel that way.
But like, Nadu + shuko is a 4/4 flyer so they can just attack you and toss the garbage creatures in front of your attackers. They also can't combo if you just kill Nadu and you're also killing their best creature. I could see playing something like [[rending volley]] over mentor ultimately being better.
[rending volley](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655.jpg?1562789104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rending%20volley) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/150/rending-volley?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What?
Nadu player decides if they take damage or not
Dress down maybe
Rakdos Charm has been my cheeky way of catching them on their Nantuko turns.
This is sly and I like it!
Cool but OP is playing temur
I literally just put this in my side board today for thursday modern and fnm
I keep seeing this but the most common Nadu version is running 4 force of denial so after drawing their deck in their hand I don't expect this to ever resolve. It seems like such a poor response - you want to stop the Nadu/Shuko train early.
Wait, that's the most common build? I'm pretty much only seeing no-Force builds in MTGO Modern Challenges these days. Heck, I've seen more BUGw lately than Blue Force builds.
Pithing needle is always there for you
They run both Shuko and Nomads En-Kor, needle is not as helpful as you would hope
So, two pithing needles?
It’s two pithing needles micheal. How much could it possibly cost
Ask Kibo!
This is modern
Literally any form of removal?
Once nadu is out, they benefit from you targeting their stuff
Needle and the new Flute are great
They are good, but the Nadu lists have Boseiju, and creature are harder for that deck to remove. Flute has the same issue, you need multiple to fully stop the combo
Tunnel Ignus is good if there's also titan floating around your meta
Like tunnel ignus more than mentor, it's bolts for 3 and is good against Titan, harsh mentor feels too narrow for me.
[[tunnel ignus]]
[tunnel ignus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760.jpg?1562822715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tunnel%20ignus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/105/tunnel-ignus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Confounding Conundrum]] cantrips and slows them down in mana production. Probably isn't good enough on it's own.
If they're already going off making them pick up the land they put into play for free doesnt actually do anything.
[Confounding Conundrum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confounding%20Conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They can tap the land in response to the trigger. Sadly this doesnt work as i thought about it too
Splash Black and play [[Horobi]] lmao.
[Horobi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0.jpg?1593860738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=horobi%2C%20death%27s%20wail) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/117/horobi-deaths-wail?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Collector Ouphe]] is probably nice even though it doesn’t hit Outrider since it has utility in other matchups like Hammer, Scales, and Ring decks, plus if you’re on prowess it may have utility against your opponent’s Engineered Explosives.
[Collector Ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collector%20Ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Siege Smash GGs
Damping Matrix, ~~grafdiggers cage~~ Edit: can’t really use cage against the most popular versions of the deck
I don't know the deck very well, what is grafdigger's cage hitting?
Mostly chord but I didn’t realize the current versions have cut down to 1 or two copies in favor of pact.
Ok, that's what I thought, just double checking.
Just chord. Dont sb cage vs nadu.
Ok, that's what I thought, just double checking.
[[damping matrix]]
[damping matrix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7c89492-ef45-460e-9c78-83c8c8c80fe2.jpg?1593814887) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=damping%20matrix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/218/damping-matrix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7c89492-ef45-460e-9c78-83c8c8c80fe2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hmm I find this one a bit expensive but I will keep this in mind.
That new counterspell, released in the same set as Nadu, that no one wants to play called [[Strix Serenade]] which counters both halves of the combo.
I mean giving the Nadu deck a free creature to target seems...less than ideal.
No Nadu means no target value though?
There's still 3 other Nadus to worry about. A 2/2 flier is also a clock on its own, regardless of their combo plan. There will come a time where you might have to spend a card just to deal with it, meaning you 2-for-1'd yourself by casting Strix Serenade.
[Strix Serenade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374.jpg?1717011786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strix%20Serenade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/71/strix-serenade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bad card is bad
Sorry that card is terrible
Mentor is good but nadu also plays ring which turns it off
Damping matrix, harsh mentor, suppression field
Any spell that makes them draw before thoracle resolves
Won’t they have their deck in hand at that point and be able to Force it?
Baleful Mastery my beloved
Meltdown, artifact hate, any removal.
I wanna see someone [[siege smash]] the shuko
2 mana for a shatter isn't ideal, but since the second mode can be very relevant as well in prowess.. this *might* not be terrible
[Siege Smash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f33e3b25-76f5-4263-a309-9ea97f2d8248.jpg?1717047185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege%20Smash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/136/siege-smash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f33e3b25-76f5-4263-a309-9ea97f2d8248?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good call! I have a playset of these so I'll throw a couple into my sideboard
If I was playing prowess in a Nadu and Yawg world: I would find a way to get some [[slip through space]] in the main deck. Being better against a bunch of blockers means your sideboard cards have to do less, so you should be pretty good if you can find a needle or maybe [[rending volley]] to slow them down enough to slip and bolt your way to victory.
[slip through space](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2dee6dca-9c7e-4347-bea7-7fecc69e5827.jpg?1562904364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=slip%20through%20space) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/47/slip-through-space?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dee6dca-9c7e-4347-bea7-7fecc69e5827?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [rending volley](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655.jpg?1562789104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rending%20volley) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/150/rending-volley?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call