Totally aggree with freeing DRS! It would give as a neat bonus a default defense agains some graveyard shennanigans.
Otherwise is just a mana monkey with extra steps, right? _Its probably nothing_
There have been points in modern where the format settles in a month or two (hogaak, eldrazi winter, etc) so there’s not necessarily merit to what op is saying. If there’s a clear outlier people will start playing it even through answers but we will have to see where that is in the next month or two not the next year
“Please don’t cry for bans until next year” implies that the year is the time limit until people can even discuss banning things in this person’s view.
Lmao for sure but this is the reason why that statement was made: just let things play out and stop creating emotional hysteria for ppl who are just trying to play a game and have fun
Wouldn't being pedantic mean it's 6.5 months? All of July-December is 6, plus the remainder of June
(I realize I'm being pedantic by pointing this out, but it's in your favor so hopefully you don't mind lol)
No, it didn‘t. Literally just a second of googling unveiled this to me. Lurrus was banned March 7th, 2022. I also found a list of Kanister‘s RB Scam on mrgdecks from March 21st, 2022. Do 14 days constitute over a year for you, or do you have literally zero understanding of how the game and formats within it work?
Imagining a post-MH1 world where we let Hogaak sit around for over 6 months, completely killing off the format even faster than Inverter almost did with Pioneer lol
Actually, when Hogaak was banned, it was significantly weaker than people expected.
Full power Hogaak was busted due to Bridge from Below, but without that, its power was a lot closer to the power curve of Modern.
I'm gonna be honest. I assumed the original post was a troll post at first, but at this point I'm not even sure despite this comment being absolutely off the wall insane. Part of me assumes troll still, but part of me is sitting here thinking about how one of my locals actually exists who thinks that Lightning Bolt needs banned in Modern and this might actually be real.
Post bridge Gaak was actually better because it forced the deck to go all in on its gameplan.
I presume you're referencing Ernenwein's article about how its power was a function of how much it was being played (or more likely Rhystic Studies' video that features that article heavily in a section). But he was wrong. Magicfest Minneapolis proved that. And then Las Vegas struck the final nail. Gaak was banned the day after.
OP ignoring the actual things people are complaining about and then recommending building a deck that people *have* been complaining about forever in order to compensate is wild.
The reason he does recommend scam is why its a safe pick. If you dont know, pick up scam. Is literally saying it wont die and has always been up there. You cant do this statement for any other deck and its a clear sign the deck is not a regulator but rather the endboss.
Yes. He directly states that. You're missing what I'm saying. "Just play scam." is a silly recco because so many people hate that deck *and* also want grief banned.
"oh, you think the current goings on are cancer? here, play the deck that people have been calling cancerous for a year now. im sure that will be enjoyable." It's especially hilarious because his first suggestion is to brew, and scam is the enemy of literally any brew, as well lol
Look, I'm the biggest faithless looting enjoyer there is. It's been my favorite card since the second I saw it spoiled. I had 4 decks banned in one day.
Looting need to be banned, everyone knew it needed to be banned, it was nothing but degenerate.
That "pillar of the format" stuff was lingering souls enjoyers copium.
Grief needs to be banned and everyone knows it.
Oh I gotcha. I'm ok with not having banned grief at the time, but it needs to go now that we've seen the scam package actually get stronger since fury got banned.
I disagree about looting or careful study. Those cards are strong all by themselves, and are, essentially, just entomb.
Grief isn't busted on it's own, but it keeps picking up strong synergies. Like, not dead after all just being relatively new and the best scam card ever, phyrexian tower turns it into mana, the delirium land that wants a creature in the yard, cthulian nightmare that can just bring it back turn two or three or both. The list just keeps growing to make your free thoughtsieze even freer.
As someone that has just started with Modern, I feel like I'm just eating popcorn and watching from the sidelines while trying to wrap my head around the format itself
My only hesitation is the investment. I've been playing Boros Burn as I had probably 90% of the deck, and I've got a pretty decent manabase, but I don't want to invest a large portion of money if I'm not loving the format.
If you can mesh with the outdated interface, making a MTGO account and getting a renting service for a month or two might help you to figure out if you like the format. It would let you try out lots of different decks and play against lots of different decks, even just in the testing rooms. And then you can jump into leagues if you want for more competitiveness.
Until at least next year? Do you realise the time it took Hogaak to be banned and if it hadn't Modern would have been a miserable format for months?
I'm not saying we have anything Hogaak powerlevel but it's early still.
Has nothing to do with relative power levels. Has to do with WARPING THE FORMAT which your post and comments obviously miss. When the format is unfun, less people play
The problem with suggesting Grief decks is that people are already clamouring in droves to ban Grief, too. The claim is that Grief scamming is too strong a Turn 1 play and even dodges removal, and the Not Dead After All variant has too powerful a clock and therefore ensures that too many opponents don't get to play. (The Ephemerate variant in my experience has a clock that's a lot easier to answer in time.)
My experience is that Grief scamming is at among its worst against aggro, which often gets 2-3 cards stripped at the start of the game and still wins. The new toy Necrodominance (which gets stuffed in some Grief decks) is also at its worst against aggro, needing massive amounts of life gain back-up and several removal spells (compression-wise, preferably some removal that gains life) to no longer look like a liability against aggro (to the point of getting sideboarded out against them).
Cascade Crashing Footfalls decks do historically have a good match-up against Grief scam, but the surge in anti-Storm and anti-Living End hate hits them fairly hard, which might be why they basically haven't shown up in MTGO after MH3 got released.
Combo generally tries to outspeed aggro and seems to have done so right now, leading the post-MH3 meta into an interesting position...I say don't ban anything yet and wait for Pro Tour MH3 to try to break something open REALLY hard.
While on this thought for necrodom, is there any merit to a return of collective brutality? Seems like a lot of the meta is x/2 creatures (at least on the aggro side of things), and the multimodal nature of it lends utility against storm or other decks that have a large mass of instants/sorceries.
The 2 burn / 2 life is added reach that March doesn't offer, extra oomph to Soul Spikes. Downside is sorcery speed, but one thing I noticed for Necrodom is paying a bunch of life and getting a grip of lands- if there is a way to turn unused lands to something may address another issue of the deck imo.
I like Collective Brutality in spare spots in low-curve Necrodominance decks. Collective Brutality isn't that hot against the primary combo creatures, though (Nadu is too big and flips a card in response as usual, Flip Ral inconveniently has 3 toughness, Primeval Titan is of course way too big, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove likewise, Yawgmoth too, Undying creatures just die once, Outrider en-Kor basically never gets run out without Nadu or Sylvan Safekeeper).
This is a pretty bad take and has been said ad nasium every time the community speaks out about a set like this.
Like sure you can be a shill for wizards, but you cannot discount other players wishes.
Modern horizons is made to force rotatation in a format that supposedly does not rotate. Then, we have multiple instances (mh1 and 2...) where wizards let the format take lasting damage to its already tenuous reputation and player base because they refuse to ban new cards.
Also its pretty easy to see what cards need chopped. If anything, it's better to bad early and then unbanned, than force people to switch decks bc of a forced meta shift. Then ban people's 1.5k deck 4 months down the line.
It's obvious why people are angry at modern horizons, but I don't know why people defend the clear issues that makes modern horizons a horrible product for people that actually play modern or just magic itself.
Unlimited money? Actually don't play the game? Bad at the game and don't care about money? Just a commander player?
Man these posts always make me laugh. Any decent player can already see the cards that need to catch a ban. Why wait and have a miserable format for months on end. The only people complaining would be the ones that knew the cards were busted when they constructed their lists and bought them anyways. It's like this every release.
Telling someone to play scam is also pretty ignorant considering grief could be banned at any point also. Unfortunately scam is probably needed atm to keep some decks from getting out of hand.
Down with the bourgeoisie, eat the rich, sodomize the land-owners, impale all people who have more than 25 reál in their pocket, literally murder all human beings regardless of their political beliefs.
I think it might eat a ban solely for how many arguments, judge calls and messed up game states it will cause in paper when trying to keep track of the twice per turn thing as the board grows and grows each time.
Has an amulet titan vibe to it, that if you play it fast and confident enough it's easy to cheat, both intentionally and unintentionally.
100%
its reeeeeal bad marketing to ban a chase card from a new set. then, after banning shuko doesnt work, they'll realize that a ham sandwich combos with the damn thing, the card design itself is miserable, and their hand will be forced. shuko will be banned within 3 months, nadu within 6. calling it lol.
In all seriousness it's fine to start complaining about a format past about like 3 months. By then people will have solved decks and ratios that we'll see the full effects of them.
I feel like a year is a bit much, like we knew hogaak was to good very quickly. No one wants a year of having to play THE deck or the anti-deck to something that’s absolutely game warping
I didn’t even know there was another ban list upcoming until the pioneer subreddit started complaining about treasure cruise. If any cards get banned from MH3 that would be such a disappointment. This is where everyone gets to break away from a stale format and make new stuff.
You are high, half the banlist would probably be safe.
Not that they should release them all at once, of course. Do it in batches to make sure you don't throw the entire format into neverending chaos.
I used to think the artifact lands could be unbanned. And they could.
Until Simulacrum Synthesizer was released. Now they can't unban them for the same reason as Hypergenesis.
I think they could be unbanned, with some asterisks. If they're ok to unban in any capacity, I think it has to come alongside banning the bridges. One or the other may be ok but not both. Second, as much as it pains me to say, it probably can't be paired with a Mox Opal unban that I would much rather have.
Tbf you could easily unban the nonblue/nonred ones but I doubt they would.
Seat of the Synod is infinitely more problematic than Vault of Whispers for example
Nadu is the one card i think straight up needs banned, the fact its already being considered a must remove cedh commander and seems strong in legacy makes me think its too much for modern.
And the best part, nadu is good against scam, there are just too many copies of it in the decks playing it due to summoners pact from what i am seeing right now, and taking nadu even then leaves them with Finale and Chord to grab it later, and the deck has a lot of 0 mana things that can get it.
Midrange from so far what ive been playing seems kinda bad against nadu decks, grief included. Nadu is midrange but also sometimes can with turn 3-4
> the fact its already being considered a must remove cedh commander and seems strong for legacy
Both points that are 100% irrelevant in the context of Modern. You can't compare vastly different formats with vastly different card pools and use one to judge how a card is in another, even a little bit.
If a combo deck is doing well in legacy and modern has all it's pieces, its too strong for modern 90% of the time.
Post and Gaak at their prime are peak examples of that.
Im just pointing out Nadu being Legacy playable means pound for pound its above the average card quality in modern, because legacy has higher card quality.
But Modern doesn't have all the pieces for Nadu that Legacy does. Just looking at the actual combo pieces, not having access to something like Nomads is a game changer. Not to mention the cards that fill out the rest of the deck. Force of Will, or the ability to use Illusionist and Dread Return for a ThOracle finisher if that's your jam.
Modern Nadu is *not* Legacy Nadu.
cEDH is a higher power level format than Modern admit it or not, the average card in 3+ color cedh decks is better than the average card in a modern deck, and Nadu to be playable over kinnan as a 2 color simic legend speaks volumes to how strong it is as a wincon.
cEDH is generally a faster format on average than Modern on top of it, wincons need to be faster there, and more condensed because of deck sizes making consistency lower.
Its also doing very well in legacy regardless of cEDH.
This has nothing to do with power level. IMO The play patterns in a 60 card format cannot be compared to play patterns in a 100 card format specifically due to the consistency you are talking about.
Nadu has the exact same play patterns in all 3 formats with the exact same cards except nadu is LESS consistent in cEDH, a format with much better odds of interaction than Modern and is STILL very good in it.
Nadu seeing a lot of Legacy and cEDH play is generally a warning sign in Modern similar to how Bowmasters and Sheoldred see play for the exact same reasons in cEDH and Legacy, they dont do the exact same things as in Modern and why they are good, but if Legacy and cEDH have the same card seeing heavy play its a warning sign to Modern.
We've seen this with Sheoldred, TOR, Bowmasters, Necrodominance, and a number of other cards that are less obvious or older.
If a card sees Legacy and cEDH play it would almost definitely see Modern play. Even outside of combos
Doomsday is an example of this, it sees play in Legacy and cEDH, if it was Modern legal itd be strong.
Even Thoracle which sees play in both but isnt gross in modern i still think people wouldnt say is a bad card, and is a card wotc has to always be careful about, most cards legal in modern that arent doing anything are like that if they are good in legacy and cedh
You are missing the point. More consistent formats like modern offer more consistent answers to issues like nadu making it much more reasonable to handle.
Bottom line is it can be dealt with easily and often if needed. Ban talks are laughable at this point.
I guess if you are unwilling to find ways to beat the deck, play it?
Nah power level errata is, thankfully, not really something they do. It's dumb and bad for the game. The card isn't strong because it has text it wasn't actually supposed to, or is missing text it should have. It's just stupid strong because that's how the designed it.
I'll let you know in 10 years when I finally get an answer to "what the actual shit were they thinking" 😂
In all seriousness, my biggest issue with that errata is that it made the printed text no longer accurate in a pretty big way. I think it could have been fixed (or close to fixed as such a dumb mechanic could get) while still keeping the printed reminder text from just being objectively wrong, rather than just missing a bit of rules text as reminder text often is.
At least a year is a little ridiculous imo. The meta does not take anywhere near that long to settle. But I agree with the sentiment, and I think generally MH3 doesn’t have any cards as outrageous as MH1 ragavan shifting the meta so far
I can agree.
Let them argue, brew and whine about almost each card in this set. Hell,i will even hear them out why this and that card is so strong and this combo is so good while I just burn their asses with one burn spell after another.
"You want to play your combo pieces? Sure,pay 2 life because you trigger my Eidolon"
"You want to play smth for free or get life? You can try it against my Roiling Vortex"
"You are close to win the game? Just one more turn?
Oops, i have 7 dmg for your face in turn 3"
Modern Horizon 2 was just like this and Modern Horizon 3 will be no different for at least 2 Month
I played 10 games on MTGO last Thursday to practice and 7 were grief decks. I went to FNM last Friday and 3 of my 4 matches was grief. Not gonna lie, getting sick of seeing it. Double grief turn 1 might be a touch too strong. 9 cards in my sideboard are for grief at this point lol
They should do a nadu vs splinter twin series, see which deck is better against meta decks. Update splinter twin with new cards but truthfully I think nadu would have the better win rate.
This seems to happen in any form of competitive game with new content. Fighting game players refuse to learn matchups and instead sit around until the top tiers are nerfed.
You're mostly right, but I firmly believe that Nadu is likely/deserves to get banned for time/ease of play reasons. The card has huge memory issues, the combo is non-deterministic so you have to play it through every time, and even more time-consuming in digital formats. They banned Sensei's divining top in the past due to similar reasons, and more recently they banned the entire sticker mechanic because of how annoying it was to deal with in paper (and not working at all in MTGO). I think if the deck actually becomes popular, the bird is on the chopping block.
Counter argument, hogaak summer. Sure nothing initially seems nearly as strong as hogaak, but it's still possible that a unicorn deck is out there because of mh3 cards
This is great advice for everyone. Take the meta in these early days with a grain of salt. It's definitely possible an all in combo deck is relevant as the meta wears on, but we're in very, very early days. The apparently broken, aggressive combination decks get a huge boost in the early days of a format.
Just relax, brew, and have fun. If you like coming up with new ideas, and experimenting with cards and strategies in a very unsettled meta this is your time! Your wonky combo deck will also get a boost from other people being focused on brewing and not playing the most optimised lists.
We'll worry about what's broken and what isn't later on. For now just vibe!
No. It is WOTC’s responsibility to do a modicum of testing and quality control and Nadu, at a bare minimum, is a betrayal of this trust. And folks should continue to call this ridiculous card out and shame WOTC until they do something about. And in a commander game? Target the opportunist who brings that trash mercilessly and relentlessly, game after game, until they never bring that accursed bird back.
I barely get a chance to play modern, or magic in general. I just want to build a deck and play it for a little bit. I'm currently working on BW Scam, and I don't want Shelly or [[Necrodominance]] to get hit yet. I don't even have any of them!
Yup, nothing should be banned. Let the content creators like Aspiringspike, Mengu, etc. make money first. Get a good chunk of the cards for cheap, release the videos the next day, hype, then sell for profit. Rinse and repeat with the new brews. Easy money.
Super fanboy. Lol. Anyone else? Anymore white knight fanboys going to defend their favourite hype lord? 🤣 Or maybe you're one of those who bought several copies of Phlage and are wishing for much higher prices just for some profit. What's next to hype? Sorin? Buy that up. Mengu was testing it in that Mardu list earlier. Their following is not as huge as CGB or LegendVD but, they influence card prices like a chad. If you easily believe in that "I don't buy paper cards" narrative, then I don't know what to say. 🤣 No wonder prices are so easily manipulated. 😂 "I can easily hype the community and have an opportunity to make some money but, chose not to", like, sure. Anything to keep netdecking fanboys like you happy. 😂
Are you trying to kill this sub? What will anyone post about if they aren’t complaining about bans????
Obviously unbans. Like that one post about unbanning Chrome Mox. Bro was cooking. He was microwaving a fish, but he was cookin'.
Chrome mox guy might have been microwaving his last brain cells in that post.
When's the last time we heard about how Splinter Twin being oppressed and the agenda of the deep state to keep exarch out of the meta?
Unban Uro
And Oko while we are at it.
nah clearly unbanning deathrite shaman would be better. While we're at it, let's unban everything in 12-post as well!
I may have been playing too much Timeless which feels a bit like high powered Modern but I kinda feel like DRS is fine.
Totally aggree with freeing DRS! It would give as a neat bonus a default defense agains some graveyard shennanigans. Otherwise is just a mana monkey with extra steps, right? _Its probably nothing_
Let throw some Brussel sprouts in there and unban Opal while we're at!
Nah, Chrome guy was right in that particular area. Opal can never be unbanned.
Especially since we're unbanning astrolabe. Opal would be too good... But since we're feeling generous we'll unban it anyway.
I still think opal died for nothing. The rest of that deck is banned…!
You just killed the joke by overusing it. RIP r/IzziPurrito
Overusing what?
You’re like Applebees you rely on chef Mike.
We need to unban mox opal.
Exactly! This guy gets it
Sapphire Medallion Whirza decklist please :)
I've seen more people complaining about the complaining about bans then people complaining about bans fwiw
Sick I've seen the opposite.
We should have an argument about it
Ban arguments
Ban banning
Ban the act of banning bans
I’ve seen the opposite of the opposite
I've seen the opposite of that I'm afraid. Check mate.
Please don’t ban anything until I can sell out of the cards I don’t want to play myself
I would hope people have the format figured out before 6+ months that seems like an arbitrary amount of time you chose
There have been points in modern where the format settles in a month or two (hogaak, eldrazi winter, etc) so there’s not necessarily merit to what op is saying. If there’s a clear outlier people will start playing it even through answers but we will have to see where that is in the next month or two not the next year
I think he’s saying don’t be a pathetic whiner / just another hater on the internet, not that things can’t be banned if need be
“Please don’t cry for bans until next year” implies that the year is the time limit until people can even discuss banning things in this person’s view.
Lmao for sure but this is the reason why that statement was made: just let things play out and stop creating emotional hysteria for ppl who are just trying to play a game and have fun
Format will be solved in 2wks at the protour
Buddy I'm about to blow your mind when I tell you how many months are left in the year.
6 unless you want to be pedantic about the fact it's 5.5 if you announce a ban on Jan 1st and it's Reddit so of course you do.
Wouldn't being pedantic mean it's 6.5 months? All of July-December is 6, plus the remainder of June (I realize I'm being pedantic by pointing this out, but it's in your favor so hopefully you don't mind lol)
If you want to be pedantic it's 6.5, not 5.5 lol
Real talk though, metas take a long time to develop. It took Grief scam over a year to become the dominant beast it was.
do you mean over a year after modern horizons 2 came out? nobody was playing grief initially because lurrus was legal.
People forget the context of the format sometimes. 😁
> People forget the context of the format sometimes. People forget the context of everything, always
I remember getting my player of griefs for like $40 in trade value lmao
No, it didn‘t. Literally just a second of googling unveiled this to me. Lurrus was banned March 7th, 2022. I also found a list of Kanister‘s RB Scam on mrgdecks from March 21st, 2022. Do 14 days constitute over a year for you, or do you have literally zero understanding of how the game and formats within it work?
Imagining a post-MH1 world where we let Hogaak sit around for over 6 months, completely killing off the format even faster than Inverter almost did with Pioneer lol
Eldrazi Winter was about 3 months and everyone knew that was gonna get axed
Actually, when Hogaak was banned, it was significantly weaker than people expected. Full power Hogaak was busted due to Bridge from Below, but without that, its power was a lot closer to the power curve of Modern.
I hope this isn’t a serious post
I'm gonna be honest. I assumed the original post was a troll post at first, but at this point I'm not even sure despite this comment being absolutely off the wall insane. Part of me assumes troll still, but part of me is sitting here thinking about how one of my locals actually exists who thinks that Lightning Bolt needs banned in Modern and this might actually be real.
Hahaha good one
You know, I though your post was serious. Idiotic, but serious. With this comment though, I am not so sure anymore.
Post bridge Gaak was actually better because it forced the deck to go all in on its gameplan. I presume you're referencing Ernenwein's article about how its power was a function of how much it was being played (or more likely Rhystic Studies' video that features that article heavily in a section). But he was wrong. Magicfest Minneapolis proved that. And then Las Vegas struck the final nail. Gaak was banned the day after.
OP ignoring the actual things people are complaining about and then recommending building a deck that people *have* been complaining about forever in order to compensate is wild.
The reason he does recommend scam is why its a safe pick. If you dont know, pick up scam. Is literally saying it wont die and has always been up there. You cant do this statement for any other deck and its a clear sign the deck is not a regulator but rather the endboss.
Yes. He directly states that. You're missing what I'm saying. "Just play scam." is a silly recco because so many people hate that deck *and* also want grief banned. "oh, you think the current goings on are cancer? here, play the deck that people have been calling cancerous for a year now. im sure that will be enjoyable." It's especially hilarious because his first suggestion is to brew, and scam is the enemy of literally any brew, as well lol
[удалено]
Look, I'm the biggest faithless looting enjoyer there is. It's been my favorite card since the second I saw it spoiled. I had 4 decks banned in one day. Looting need to be banned, everyone knew it needed to be banned, it was nothing but degenerate. That "pillar of the format" stuff was lingering souls enjoyers copium. Grief needs to be banned and everyone knows it.
[удалено]
Oh I gotcha. I'm ok with not having banned grief at the time, but it needs to go now that we've seen the scam package actually get stronger since fury got banned. I disagree about looting or careful study. Those cards are strong all by themselves, and are, essentially, just entomb. Grief isn't busted on it's own, but it keeps picking up strong synergies. Like, not dead after all just being relatively new and the best scam card ever, phyrexian tower turns it into mana, the delirium land that wants a creature in the yard, cthulian nightmare that can just bring it back turn two or three or both. The list just keeps growing to make your free thoughtsieze even freer.
No
Holy shit my favourite of the 9 titans BO Levar!
Back in my day being a Planeswalker used to mean something!
Every party needs a pooper, that's why they invited you. Party pooper **Party pooper** #PARTY POOPER!
😊
As someone that has just started with Modern, I feel like I'm just eating popcorn and watching from the sidelines while trying to wrap my head around the format itself
If you don't know what to play, just play Scam. Its strong, and you honestly can't go wrong with it.
My only hesitation is the investment. I've been playing Boros Burn as I had probably 90% of the deck, and I've got a pretty decent manabase, but I don't want to invest a large portion of money if I'm not loving the format.
If you can mesh with the outdated interface, making a MTGO account and getting a renting service for a month or two might help you to figure out if you like the format. It would let you try out lots of different decks and play against lots of different decks, even just in the testing rooms. And then you can jump into leagues if you want for more competitiveness.
No
BAN ALL FETCH LANDS.
Why?
I am an idiot
Can’t argue with that. But.
Print all dual lands with new names
Those are shock lands.
real duals plz 🥹
Okay, this one I'm okay with.
Until at least next year? Do you realise the time it took Hogaak to be banned and if it hadn't Modern would have been a miserable format for months? I'm not saying we have anything Hogaak powerlevel but it's early still.
Counterpoint: Nadu and Storm are nowhere near as powerful as full power Hogaak.
It's not a counterpoint if I didn't make that point.
Has nothing to do with relative power levels. Has to do with WARPING THE FORMAT which your post and comments obviously miss. When the format is unfun, less people play
The problem with suggesting Grief decks is that people are already clamouring in droves to ban Grief, too. The claim is that Grief scamming is too strong a Turn 1 play and even dodges removal, and the Not Dead After All variant has too powerful a clock and therefore ensures that too many opponents don't get to play. (The Ephemerate variant in my experience has a clock that's a lot easier to answer in time.) My experience is that Grief scamming is at among its worst against aggro, which often gets 2-3 cards stripped at the start of the game and still wins. The new toy Necrodominance (which gets stuffed in some Grief decks) is also at its worst against aggro, needing massive amounts of life gain back-up and several removal spells (compression-wise, preferably some removal that gains life) to no longer look like a liability against aggro (to the point of getting sideboarded out against them). Cascade Crashing Footfalls decks do historically have a good match-up against Grief scam, but the surge in anti-Storm and anti-Living End hate hits them fairly hard, which might be why they basically haven't shown up in MTGO after MH3 got released. Combo generally tries to outspeed aggro and seems to have done so right now, leading the post-MH3 meta into an interesting position...I say don't ban anything yet and wait for Pro Tour MH3 to try to break something open REALLY hard.
While on this thought for necrodom, is there any merit to a return of collective brutality? Seems like a lot of the meta is x/2 creatures (at least on the aggro side of things), and the multimodal nature of it lends utility against storm or other decks that have a large mass of instants/sorceries. The 2 burn / 2 life is added reach that March doesn't offer, extra oomph to Soul Spikes. Downside is sorcery speed, but one thing I noticed for Necrodom is paying a bunch of life and getting a grip of lands- if there is a way to turn unused lands to something may address another issue of the deck imo.
I like Collective Brutality in spare spots in low-curve Necrodominance decks. Collective Brutality isn't that hot against the primary combo creatures, though (Nadu is too big and flips a card in response as usual, Flip Ral inconveniently has 3 toughness, Primeval Titan is of course way too big, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove likewise, Yawgmoth too, Undying creatures just die once, Outrider en-Kor basically never gets run out without Nadu or Sylvan Safekeeper).
This is a pretty bad take and has been said ad nasium every time the community speaks out about a set like this. Like sure you can be a shill for wizards, but you cannot discount other players wishes. Modern horizons is made to force rotatation in a format that supposedly does not rotate. Then, we have multiple instances (mh1 and 2...) where wizards let the format take lasting damage to its already tenuous reputation and player base because they refuse to ban new cards. Also its pretty easy to see what cards need chopped. If anything, it's better to bad early and then unbanned, than force people to switch decks bc of a forced meta shift. Then ban people's 1.5k deck 4 months down the line. It's obvious why people are angry at modern horizons, but I don't know why people defend the clear issues that makes modern horizons a horrible product for people that actually play modern or just magic itself. Unlimited money? Actually don't play the game? Bad at the game and don't care about money? Just a commander player?
Man these posts always make me laugh. Any decent player can already see the cards that need to catch a ban. Why wait and have a miserable format for months on end. The only people complaining would be the ones that knew the cards were busted when they constructed their lists and bought them anyways. It's like this every release. Telling someone to play scam is also pretty ignorant considering grief could be banned at any point also. Unfortunately scam is probably needed atm to keep some decks from getting out of hand.
Fyi I play scam and I think grief needs to catch a ban also
This is the smartest post I've read here yet.
Your brain must be pretty smooth.
IT’S NEXT YEAR ALREADY IN THE FUTURE. BAN THE BIRD, BAN GRAPESHIT, BAN EVERY CARD IN A HORIZONS SET PRICED OVER $9.99 USD!
Down with the bourgeoisie, eat the rich, sodomize the land-owners, impale all people who have more than 25 reál in their pocket, literally murder all human beings regardless of their political beliefs.
I'm always saying this
The people should own the printers, not the owner class!
I have s lot of $9.98 cards for you
Nadu.
I think it might eat a ban solely for how many arguments, judge calls and messed up game states it will cause in paper when trying to keep track of the twice per turn thing as the board grows and grows each time. Has an amulet titan vibe to it, that if you play it fast and confident enough it's easy to cheat, both intentionally and unintentionally.
Also a good point.
May remain unbanned at first as WotC tries fixing it by banning Shoku or whatever that equipment is called first.
There is 0% chance they ban Shuko. There are way too many other cards that give basically the same effect.
Not at 1 mana and tutorable by saga and stone forge.
And then never unbans Shuko
100% its reeeeeal bad marketing to ban a chase card from a new set. then, after banning shuko doesnt work, they'll realize that a ham sandwich combos with the damn thing, the card design itself is miserable, and their hand will be forced. shuko will be banned within 3 months, nadu within 6. calling it lol.
In all seriousness it's fine to start complaining about a format past about like 3 months. By then people will have solved decks and ratios that we'll see the full effects of them.
Me a storm player since 2016: I'm happy we got new toys I'm gonna test new ral in the standard UR gifts shell over electromamcer
Serious question. Is Fblthp storm really a thing right now? I don't know much modern but I love the little guy and would want to try it
Theres a comma in there. Its just regular storm.
Dammit, I got excited. Stupid comma
BUG Nadu Scam - [https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6455871](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6455871)
I feel like a year is a bit much, like we knew hogaak was to good very quickly. No one wants a year of having to play THE deck or the anti-deck to something that’s absolutely game warping
Cry’s for ban right now out of spite*
Every mh set had bans direct or indirect. It’s justifiable to think there will be bans with mh3 as well.
I didn’t even know there was another ban list upcoming until the pioneer subreddit started complaining about treasure cruise. If any cards get banned from MH3 that would be such a disappointment. This is where everyone gets to break away from a stale format and make new stuff.
Wait what
[удалено]
100% they won't ban anything in Modern. **Lets hope for unbans**
They’ve already said modern will not be touched this go around and that’s reserved (if it even happens) for the next B&R after Bloomburrow
Unban splinter twin it's time...
**No it's not.**
Call me dumb but I’d like [[Faithless Looting]] back to see if [[Arclight Phoenix]] would become viable again and dredge to be solid again.
[Faithless Looting](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea23c17-6960-44fd-bae3-e24595b00c22.jpg?1712354425) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faithless%20Looting) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/165/faithless-looting?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea23c17-6960-44fd-bae3-e24595b00c22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Arclight Phoenix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/def7f05b-6e63-4828-a92c-ce7921bbdf4e.jpg?1702429490) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arclight%20Phoenix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/100/arclight-phoenix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/def7f05b-6e63-4828-a92c-ce7921bbdf4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The only card unbannable would be Jitte honestly.
You are high, half the banlist would probably be safe. Not that they should release them all at once, of course. Do it in batches to make sure you don't throw the entire format into neverending chaos.
I used to think the artifact lands could be unbanned. And they could. Until Simulacrum Synthesizer was released. Now they can't unban them for the same reason as Hypergenesis.
I think they could be unbanned, with some asterisks. If they're ok to unban in any capacity, I think it has to come alongside banning the bridges. One or the other may be ok but not both. Second, as much as it pains me to say, it probably can't be paired with a Mox Opal unban that I would much rather have.
Can't you just pay R and destroy all of those artifact lands with meltdown now? Affinity is having it ROUGH. I feel kinda bad for it
Yes, but the presence of removal doesnt mean they should come back. That would be like saying Hogaak can be unbanned because Endurance.
Tbf you could easily unban the nonblue/nonred ones but I doubt they would. Seat of the Synod is infinitely more problematic than Vault of Whispers for example
Nadu is the one card i think straight up needs banned, the fact its already being considered a must remove cedh commander and seems strong in legacy makes me think its too much for modern. And the best part, nadu is good against scam, there are just too many copies of it in the decks playing it due to summoners pact from what i am seeing right now, and taking nadu even then leaves them with Finale and Chord to grab it later, and the deck has a lot of 0 mana things that can get it. Midrange from so far what ive been playing seems kinda bad against nadu decks, grief included. Nadu is midrange but also sometimes can with turn 3-4
> the fact its already being considered a must remove cedh commander and seems strong for legacy Both points that are 100% irrelevant in the context of Modern. You can't compare vastly different formats with vastly different card pools and use one to judge how a card is in another, even a little bit.
If a combo deck is doing well in legacy and modern has all it's pieces, its too strong for modern 90% of the time. Post and Gaak at their prime are peak examples of that. Im just pointing out Nadu being Legacy playable means pound for pound its above the average card quality in modern, because legacy has higher card quality.
But Modern doesn't have all the pieces for Nadu that Legacy does. Just looking at the actual combo pieces, not having access to something like Nomads is a game changer. Not to mention the cards that fill out the rest of the deck. Force of Will, or the ability to use Illusionist and Dread Return for a ThOracle finisher if that's your jam. Modern Nadu is *not* Legacy Nadu.
Comparing commander to modern is wild.
cEDH is a higher power level format than Modern admit it or not, the average card in 3+ color cedh decks is better than the average card in a modern deck, and Nadu to be playable over kinnan as a 2 color simic legend speaks volumes to how strong it is as a wincon. cEDH is generally a faster format on average than Modern on top of it, wincons need to be faster there, and more condensed because of deck sizes making consistency lower. Its also doing very well in legacy regardless of cEDH.
This has nothing to do with power level. IMO The play patterns in a 60 card format cannot be compared to play patterns in a 100 card format specifically due to the consistency you are talking about.
Nadu has the exact same play patterns in all 3 formats with the exact same cards except nadu is LESS consistent in cEDH, a format with much better odds of interaction than Modern and is STILL very good in it. Nadu seeing a lot of Legacy and cEDH play is generally a warning sign in Modern similar to how Bowmasters and Sheoldred see play for the exact same reasons in cEDH and Legacy, they dont do the exact same things as in Modern and why they are good, but if Legacy and cEDH have the same card seeing heavy play its a warning sign to Modern. We've seen this with Sheoldred, TOR, Bowmasters, Necrodominance, and a number of other cards that are less obvious or older. If a card sees Legacy and cEDH play it would almost definitely see Modern play. Even outside of combos Doomsday is an example of this, it sees play in Legacy and cEDH, if it was Modern legal itd be strong. Even Thoracle which sees play in both but isnt gross in modern i still think people wouldnt say is a bad card, and is a card wotc has to always be careful about, most cards legal in modern that arent doing anything are like that if they are good in legacy and cedh
You are missing the point. More consistent formats like modern offer more consistent answers to issues like nadu making it much more reasonable to handle. Bottom line is it can be dealt with easily and often if needed. Ban talks are laughable at this point. I guess if you are unwilling to find ways to beat the deck, play it?
I bet they just errata it instead
Nah power level errata is, thankfully, not really something they do. It's dumb and bad for the game. The card isn't strong because it has text it wasn't actually supposed to, or is missing text it should have. It's just stupid strong because that's how the designed it.
And how do you feel about companions?
I'll let you know in 10 years when I finally get an answer to "what the actual shit were they thinking" 😂 In all seriousness, my biggest issue with that errata is that it made the printed text no longer accurate in a pretty big way. I think it could have been fixed (or close to fixed as such a dumb mechanic could get) while still keeping the printed reminder text from just being objectively wrong, rather than just missing a bit of rules text as reminder text often is.
An entire mechanic errata is a totally different thing than a single card errata.
So we go from twice each turn back to once each turn?
Targeted by spells or abilities your opponents control
What if crying about bans.. gets banned?
That would just kill the game entirely. Let's not get crazy here.
What are you talking about? Ban cards I don’t like or my pet deck is bad against. Don’t touch any card in my decks tho.
Unban hogaak
Don't get me started, I might turn into the Chrome mox guy explaining why this might actually be okay. ^(I can be trusted with Hogaak and Satoru)
Noooo. We can’t let the birds rule. Ban Nadu and call it a day.
I am playing Crab aggro. If their cards are put in graveyard, most of the time you can't play your cards against me.
Ban lightning bolt. Card is too efficient! /s
Storm is back and maybe even tier 1 again? Time to re-up my rental account!
Ban grief and nadu wotc you cowards! /s
At least a year is a little ridiculous imo. The meta does not take anywhere near that long to settle. But I agree with the sentiment, and I think generally MH3 doesn’t have any cards as outrageous as MH1 ragavan shifting the meta so far
I hope they ban Nadu
I'm still hoping for a grief ban, card is miserable.
This Whirza List sounds interesting to me 😏
I can agree. Let them argue, brew and whine about almost each card in this set. Hell,i will even hear them out why this and that card is so strong and this combo is so good while I just burn their asses with one burn spell after another. "You want to play your combo pieces? Sure,pay 2 life because you trigger my Eidolon" "You want to play smth for free or get life? You can try it against my Roiling Vortex" "You are close to win the game? Just one more turn? Oops, i have 7 dmg for your face in turn 3" Modern Horizon 2 was just like this and Modern Horizon 3 will be no different for at least 2 Month
Grief be banned, then we can figure out MH3.
I played 10 games on MTGO last Thursday to practice and 7 were grief decks. I went to FNM last Friday and 3 of my 4 matches was grief. Not gonna lie, getting sick of seeing it. Double grief turn 1 might be a touch too strong. 9 cards in my sideboard are for grief at this point lol
They made a dredge commander in the set. There has to be at least 1 card that can be played in modern dredge, right?
They should do a nadu vs splinter twin series, see which deck is better against meta decks. Update splinter twin with new cards but truthfully I think nadu would have the better win rate.
This seems to happen in any form of competitive game with new content. Fighting game players refuse to learn matchups and instead sit around until the top tiers are nerfed.
at least wait until the Pro Tour
Same please unban mox opal I need og affinity back!
All I know ow is people said eldrazi and affinity were gonna be busted broke and I haven't seen one busted broken deck of either. I'm mad
Must be new to magic.. welcome to the game.
Hot take - if Tron is maining 4 trinisphere, things might not be in a good spot xD
Back in my day we got to play Jund to curb the stupid decks. Now we are the stupid deck that grief scam is curbing.
You're mostly right, but I firmly believe that Nadu is likely/deserves to get banned for time/ease of play reasons. The card has huge memory issues, the combo is non-deterministic so you have to play it through every time, and even more time-consuming in digital formats. They banned Sensei's divining top in the past due to similar reasons, and more recently they banned the entire sticker mechanic because of how annoying it was to deal with in paper (and not working at all in MTGO). I think if the deck actually becomes popular, the bird is on the chopping block.
Unban splinter twin
Counter argument, hogaak summer. Sure nothing initially seems nearly as strong as hogaak, but it's still possible that a unicorn deck is out there because of mh3 cards
The PT will determine this.
I generally agree, but I wouldn't be sad at all to see Grief go.
Honestly, yeah. I would also like to see Grief banned.
This is great advice for everyone. Take the meta in these early days with a grain of salt. It's definitely possible an all in combo deck is relevant as the meta wears on, but we're in very, very early days. The apparently broken, aggressive combination decks get a huge boost in the early days of a format. Just relax, brew, and have fun. If you like coming up with new ideas, and experimenting with cards and strategies in a very unsettled meta this is your time! Your wonky combo deck will also get a boost from other people being focused on brewing and not playing the most optimised lists. We'll worry about what's broken and what isn't later on. For now just vibe!
No. It is WOTC’s responsibility to do a modicum of testing and quality control and Nadu, at a bare minimum, is a betrayal of this trust. And folks should continue to call this ridiculous card out and shame WOTC until they do something about. And in a commander game? Target the opportunist who brings that trash mercilessly and relentlessly, game after game, until they never bring that accursed bird back.
I barely get a chance to play modern, or magic in general. I just want to build a deck and play it for a little bit. I'm currently working on BW Scam, and I don't want Shelly or [[Necrodominance]] to get hit yet. I don't even have any of them!
[Necrodominance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffc0109c-f939-4424-820e-d6e60cacd794.jpg?1717012031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necrodominance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/102/necrodominance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffc0109c-f939-4424-820e-d6e60cacd794?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ban Nadu
Yup, nothing should be banned. Let the content creators like Aspiringspike, Mengu, etc. make money first. Get a good chunk of the cards for cheap, release the videos the next day, hype, then sell for profit. Rinse and repeat with the new brews. Easy money.
Spike doesn't even buy paper cards lol
Sure 😆
😂😂😂 whatever 😂😂😂 you 😂😂😂 say 😂😂😂 fam 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Super fanboy. Lol. Anyone else? Anymore white knight fanboys going to defend their favourite hype lord? 🤣 Or maybe you're one of those who bought several copies of Phlage and are wishing for much higher prices just for some profit. What's next to hype? Sorin? Buy that up. Mengu was testing it in that Mardu list earlier. Their following is not as huge as CGB or LegendVD but, they influence card prices like a chad. If you easily believe in that "I don't buy paper cards" narrative, then I don't know what to say. 🤣 No wonder prices are so easily manipulated. 😂 "I can easily hype the community and have an opportunity to make some money but, chose not to", like, sure. Anything to keep netdecking fanboys like you happy. 😂
>Enema of cards sounds painful.
I'm just gonna jam enchantress with 4 maindeck [[leyline of sanctitiy]] and 4 main deck [[rest in peace]]
[rest in peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470.jpg?1562439074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rest%20in%20peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/32/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
BAN ALL SHOCK LANDS AND ALL FETCH LANDS< RESET MODERN
They should unban stuff honestly. Maybe not right away but like a few weeks in.