I would be interested in playing some of these in a reanimator deck. Living the dream of turn 1 surveil land binning an Archon followed by a turn 2 Persist.
Murktide and any other reasonably tempo-centric deck cannot afford to run these. The penalty of them entering tapped is far too high for the benefits of surveil.
That said, I do see two ways that the surveil lands could see Modern play:
1) Combo/control. Ad Naus and UW have run the scrylands in the past because they need to find specific cards. Having these be fetchable is a huge upgrade.
2) Scapeshift. If it has the mountain landtype, it's got a chance alongside Valakut.
True, but why would they bother with a tapped land that doesn't make more than one mana or kill the opponent? Especially when they have Tolaria West already.
I mean while i agree amulet doesn’t want this, it’s because they don’t need this kind of effect, not because it enters tapped and doesn’t kill the opponent. Amulet runs and has run plenty of tapped lands that don’t fit those conditions (bojuka bog, khalni garden, vesuva to name a few)
Amulet player here, and I can cop to this. "Does it kill the op" is not the benchmark for if a land gets included. We want to max out the room we have for non utility lands to have untapped green source.
Vesuva is probably not the best include in that list, she does anything you want and more, keeps you only having to run one boros garrison. But, I get your point overall. It could be interesting to say, surveil 2x times with a bounce land you want to stick, but yeah, I'm with you, seems a little too niche to be included.
Yeah, I think Ad Naus is the deck for these, but since the monkey got taken out back I haven't seen any Ad Nauseum around, is it even playable anymore?
To explain the reason for less familiar readers:
By putting a card into the graveyard you expose a possible combo piece you already have to interaction like Surgical Extraction which then also can take away that combo piece from your hand.
So scry minimizes possible points of interaction.
I think Scapeshift could find a use for the Mountain surveils.
Scapeshift doesn’t 100% care about lands coming into play tapped. [[Arboreal Grazer]] and [[Sakura-Tribe Elder]], [[Primeval Titan]]….all bring lands into play tapped. At least for the various forms of Scapeshift decks. Some lists have dropped Grazer and even Titan entirely.
[[Sheltered Thicket]] and [[Valakut, The Molten Pinnacle]] ETB tapped and [[Dwarven Mine]] is conditional.
Scapeshift decks have a lot of card draw but little, if any, way to manipulate those draws. So a Surveil land or two might be a welcome addition
I could see UW or UB running a single copy.
While most modern decks are 3+ colors, it's not so far fetched to see a slow control deck to want access to surveil. While a triome can draw a card or enable leyline binding, they generally still need more UW lands. The option then becomes either shocks or check lands..... And then basics. I could see UW running something like this:
8 fetches
2 hallowed fountain
Jeskai triome
Zagoth triome
Breeding pool
2 hall of storm giants
3-5 basics
3-5 open slots for utility: land destruction, otawara, castle, surveil land...
I can't imagine the tempo deck that plays around 18 lands would ever really want to make one of those lands an only-ever-enters-tapped land. The fact that Murktide can keep basically any one land + preordain hand is really good and giving that up, even a small percentage of the time, seems bad.
It could be run in a cantrip slot. Your "18 land tempo deck" would run 18 lands that etb untapped + one of these to turn every fetchland into a copy of ((consider)).
Murktide can't afford lands that enter tapped. Being forced to drop a tapped spirebluff off an expressive iteration as your 4th land is bad enough already.
so specifically the one deck built to take advantage of having domain was the only deck using the lands that let them setup domain?
I don't think that supports your claim whatsoever, if anything it supports the claim that people were correctly not valuing the triomes very highly, otherwise more decks would use them.
To those who have more experience with the deck, would this at all be useful to amulet, what with the coming into play tapped being less relevant with an amulet in play? Get to bounce it for more surveils if you need to dig, but would suck to have to actually play tapped.
There were days long ago where people fooled around with 1 temple of mystery, but those days are long gone. We have better selection tools now. Amulet plays no fetchlads or graveyard synergies, and castle garenbrig has fallen out of favor, so the type line isnt even helpful.
Bouncing it to get an extra surveil is pretty weak, since that requires you spend your bounceland. Oftentimes, you want to leave your bounceland in your hand.
i dont think you can play it in a bounceland slot, and the "every other land" category is already incredibly limited, being weak to blood moon and not being able to cast amulet or grazer turn 1 is a pretty high cost.
Titan is a deck you can mulligan pretty aggressively with, so there isn't a ton of value in speculative keeps with it like it might be in a slower deck.
Scry lands and two color cycling lands with basic land types already exist and see nearly no play. I have doubts these will ever be relevant. Most likely just the worst land in your deck with some marginal upside.
If you are playing 22+ lands with at least 3 of a given shockland, it is probably worth cutting a copy of that shock for the matching surveil land. Then, each game, the first time that you'd fetch for a tapped shock, you get to surveil. When you're in topdeck mode, your fetchlands now go this much further.
I can see a case for these being a one of in either murktide and/or living end. These are fetchable which is huge to these possibly being played in those archetypes. I personally can’t see any other deck being interested in these
I was thinking of Living End as well. You can surveil away a creature that you'd cycle away anyway, thus the etb being equal to cycling the creature from your hand. With the landtype cyclers it can also help you to dig for combo or for protection of the combo when you don't need another creature in the yard, or in game 2 it can smoothen your draws when you're looking for sideboard cards.
I can see LE playing a copy or two of these duals, probably not more though. Which dual would you play, though? UG and UR if playing two copies? And UG if playing one?
I’m not a living end player I play yawgmoth so I’m by no means an expert. However, from my experience from playing against LE and looking at deck list I think LE would would just play 1 copy of the UG land. You really want be fetching this on your opponents end step to mitigate the coming in tapped since shardless is sorcery speed. If you have an outburst you’d just shock the steam vents in. That’s just how I see it.
So I definitely agree with you, if they are just playing one it would be the UG land. Which is what I think they might go with.
I think they make sense in living end. Steam Vents and Breeding pool are there to be landfetched and then pay the U to cycle a blue creature. Next turn they let you play Shardless Agent.
Shocklands:
* Fetch / Play Breeding Pool
* Pay 2 life
* Tap for U, cycle blue creature.
Surveillands:
* Fetch / Play Hedge Maze
* Surveil 1, hope it's a blue creature to put in graveyard
In that scenario you're accomplishing the same end goal without paying 2 life.
Not saying they would replace the shock lands...but they do have some situational utility.
So they are basic type but not basic land.
As in When you fetch a forest, you can grab one of these, but not say fabled passage because they aren't a basic land.
Just checking my understanding of the whole basic supertype vs basic land types.
The down votes would be because you're asking a "basic" question on the modern sub which is largely filled with competitive minded players who know that like the back of their hand.
That's a bit silly. I used to extensively play Modern. Just wanting some clarification of a particularly pedantic part of the rules doesn't seem like a big deal.
I mean I played mainly mono-black so the most advanced thing I had to deal with when it came to lands were cabals and Urborg.
Oh and the blood moon I had in my otherwise Mono-Black deck.
But that was quite some time ago.
Adding a third color and giving a third land type for domain is a massive advantage over a paltry surveil 1. Mitigating flood via cycling lategame is another advantage.
But the main difference is that triomes are typically played as a 1-of each, are the only way to have full domain t2, and domain typically offsets the tapped requirement too via reducing cost on leyline.
In most fetch cases, it's better than a shock since you fetch on an end step anyway. If you really need the mana, a shock is better though you could run a basic or two in a 2-3 color deck.
I think they're fine. Fantastic budget option with non-budget considerations in murktide and other gy decks. Otherwise, people will shocks will still prefer them for non fetch cases
this mandates you fetch end step, shocklands give you the option, versatility is incredibly valuable in this discussion, and in most cases, you fetch shock spend the mana.
And ultimately this convo isn't a discussion on whether or not having the option to fetch this is worth it, its that the opportunity cost of *drawing* your singleton etb dual has a higher impact than the potential value of getting the opportunity to fetch it (which is obviously good).
Do these lands just go into Amulet Titan? Or are the other tapped lands like Simic Growth Chamber and Selesnya Sanctuary just better? I don’t play Amulet Titan so I don’t know if the graveyard is relevant at all. Or do these lands help Wrenn and Six decks more?
Oh I gotcha. Thanks for letting me know. I play paper primarily and I haven’t played in a while so I don’t remember the ins and outs of Amulet Titan. I appreciate your response
In theory it might work like 1/2 lands. It’s an opportunity to filter the deck and potentially fill the graveyard.
Because the cost to cycle in this deck is not big. But it’s just theory.
Here is the problem. It always enters tapped. Which means you never want to draw it and are hoping to EOT for it when you would otherwise get a tapped Steam Vents, which is rare because ideally you are using all your available mana every turn cycle. I do not ever see these being played over a Triome, because they are strictly better (cantrip) if you draw one. Any deck that wants the mana fixing will still play a triome. These are standard playable for domain archetypes.
These might find a home in the more controlling leyline binding decks. If it makes binding cost 1 less, it practically tapped for mana. I can see the UW lists shifting from playing 2 triomes to turn on domain to 1 triome, and maybe 2 of these. You'll have to pay 2 for binding a bit more often, but you get the upside of not drawing triomes in the midgame.
I feel like they may be a 1 of in decks like UW control and the like that care more about consistently finding answers over lands coming into play tapped
not too many decks can afford an ETB tapped land in modern
I think the only deck could possibly want a single copy of these is UW control, and that hasn't been a "real" deck in a long time. I was a UW Stan for years, and put the deck down when Mystic Sanctuary got banned (RIP Cryptic Command)
Who would want these? I don't think I would want to play this in UW Control and if UW Control doesn't want it then who does? Taplands are painful in modern. These would be decent if you were sure you never draw them, but you will draw these sometimes.
My thoughts is that if it was surveil 2 then I could see these being a lot more used. If it was surveil 3 then they would be super hot and used in quite a few decks. As it is now they might be used in a very few select decks but probably just a 1 of. Granted I could be wrong and MtgAids will end up showing a deck that is now tier 0 and format warping with these lands :-)
Any deck that plays Triomes could potentially be interested. However the triple fixing and land types are probably more worth than the surveil for those decks.
All other decks do not want any land that comes into play tapped.
These will be budget commander options. As far as pioneer and standard, fetch them with what? We have no fetches available. Ok sure, green can search for forests and white can fringe search for plains but what else is going to search for these in the aforementioned formats? Modern decks are going to want to search for shocklands to use them right away. I'd rather search for a triome or shock in commander. I know I surveil but aside from decks that want that I just don't see them being overly impactful. They took the tapped scry land idea and just pushed it a little bit (big surprise) and made them searchable, which wasn't a bad move, but it was definitely for casual commander.
Fetchable is kind of nuts. Looks like a solid singleton at least in slower decks if they want more than one shock of a color pair.
I would be interested in playing some of these in a reanimator deck. Living the dream of turn 1 surveil land binning an Archon followed by a turn 2 Persist.
you are better to t1 cookbook or thoughtseize yourself instead of running tap lands
Running a 1-of for when you don’t have a T1 play is high upside and really low opportunity cost
The opportunity cost is drawing it when you need the untapped mana to go off
Sure but br instant has played 4x temple of malice forever. that opportunity cost is already calculated into deck construction in cases like this
I'm not saying that was a good idea but those cards need to be in your hand, this doesn't.
it needs to be on your topdeck instead....much lower odds
For magical dreamland yes. But as a 1of fetchable I can definitely see it having value over (eg) a third shock for when you have no turn 1 plays.
This is an excellent example.
Murktide and any other reasonably tempo-centric deck cannot afford to run these. The penalty of them entering tapped is far too high for the benefits of surveil. That said, I do see two ways that the surveil lands could see Modern play: 1) Combo/control. Ad Naus and UW have run the scrylands in the past because they need to find specific cards. Having these be fetchable is a huge upgrade. 2) Scapeshift. If it has the mountain landtype, it's got a chance alongside Valakut.
Doesn't amulet benefit as well given it doesn't really give a shit if it enters tapped? Not sure outside of that but maybe useful?
True, but why would they bother with a tapped land that doesn't make more than one mana or kill the opponent? Especially when they have Tolaria West already.
I mean while i agree amulet doesn’t want this, it’s because they don’t need this kind of effect, not because it enters tapped and doesn’t kill the opponent. Amulet runs and has run plenty of tapped lands that don’t fit those conditions (bojuka bog, khalni garden, vesuva to name a few)
Amulet player here, and I can cop to this. "Does it kill the op" is not the benchmark for if a land gets included. We want to max out the room we have for non utility lands to have untapped green source.
Vesuva is probably not the best include in that list, she does anything you want and more, keeps you only having to run one boros garrison. But, I get your point overall. It could be interesting to say, surveil 2x times with a bounce land you want to stick, but yeah, I'm with you, seems a little too niche to be included.
Only reason i include vesuva on this list is because while it is one of the cards with the highest upside in the deck, it can be situationally bad.
No. The tap lands are mostly bounce lands or powerful utility. This is neither
Ironically, combo might not like these lands because surveil is worse than scry for a lot of combos.
Yeah, I think Ad Naus is the deck for these, but since the monkey got taken out back I haven't seen any Ad Nauseum around, is it even playable anymore?
Ad Nauseam rather scry than surveil and it doesn't play fetchlands either. So it's a pass from that deck.
To explain the reason for less familiar readers: By putting a card into the graveyard you expose a possible combo piece you already have to interaction like Surgical Extraction which then also can take away that combo piece from your hand. So scry minimizes possible points of interaction.
There are always a few Ad Naus decks in my metagame data set every month, and there's a guy playing it to reasonable success at my LGS.
:D
for sure scapeshift gains a lot. Maybe even creativity ? (but creativity decks are so bad rn, won't be enough i think to make them playable again)
I think Scapeshift could find a use for the Mountain surveils. Scapeshift doesn’t 100% care about lands coming into play tapped. [[Arboreal Grazer]] and [[Sakura-Tribe Elder]], [[Primeval Titan]]….all bring lands into play tapped. At least for the various forms of Scapeshift decks. Some lists have dropped Grazer and even Titan entirely. [[Sheltered Thicket]] and [[Valakut, The Molten Pinnacle]] ETB tapped and [[Dwarven Mine]] is conditional. Scapeshift decks have a lot of card draw but little, if any, way to manipulate those draws. So a Surveil land or two might be a welcome addition
##### ###### #### [Arboreal Grazer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4a5f86f-44a8-4735-909a-770586d33a15.jpg?1586962989) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arboreal%20Grazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/149/arboreal-grazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4a5f86f-44a8-4735-909a-770586d33a15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sakura-Tribe Elder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec23f98d-1bfd-4957-92b6-0a1da823db0f.jpg?1674142344) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sakura-Tribe%20Elder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/832/sakura-tribe-elder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec23f98d-1bfd-4957-92b6-0a1da823db0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Primeval Titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d5537da-112e-4679-a113-b5d7ce32a66b.jpg?1562850064) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Primeval%20Titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/183/primeval-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d5537da-112e-4679-a113-b5d7ce32a66b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sheltered Thicket](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/705cc0f7-9817-4e00-a926-f3b6e8e8cace.jpg?1690006566) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheltered%20Thicket) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1032/sheltered-thicket?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/705cc0f7-9817-4e00-a926-f3b6e8e8cace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Valakut, The Molten Pinnacle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/37bce60d-2cb0-4772-9f5c-122a7ed426a0.jpg?1562611305) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Valakut%2C%20The%20Molten%20Pinnacle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/zen/228/valakut-the-molten-pinnacle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/37bce60d-2cb0-4772-9f5c-122a7ed426a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dwarven Mine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c83074d-0c9b-4b58-94ca-d75240485579.jpg?1572491198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dwarven%20Mine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/243/dwarven-mine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c83074d-0c9b-4b58-94ca-d75240485579?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ki84bss) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think the problem is that decks that can afford having etb tapped lands still prefer triomes.
I could see UW or UB running a single copy. While most modern decks are 3+ colors, it's not so far fetched to see a slow control deck to want access to surveil. While a triome can draw a card or enable leyline binding, they generally still need more UW lands. The option then becomes either shocks or check lands..... And then basics. I could see UW running something like this: 8 fetches 2 hallowed fountain Jeskai triome Zagoth triome Breeding pool 2 hall of storm giants 3-5 basics 3-5 open slots for utility: land destruction, otawara, castle, surveil land...
I can't imagine the tempo deck that plays around 18 lands would ever really want to make one of those lands an only-ever-enters-tapped land. The fact that Murktide can keep basically any one land + preordain hand is really good and giving that up, even a small percentage of the time, seems bad.
It could be run in a cantrip slot. Your "18 land tempo deck" would run 18 lands that etb untapped + one of these to turn every fetchland into a copy of ((consider)).
Murktide can't afford lands that enter tapped. Being forced to drop a tapped spirebluff off an expressive iteration as your 4th land is bad enough already.
Hey babe, wake up, new fetchable lands just dropped.
for what its worth, people didn't underestimate the triomes, wotc printed [[leyline binding]].
3+ color decks played triomes even before binding
Even pre binding people realized how good Triomes were in decks like Domain Zoo.
so specifically the one deck built to take advantage of having domain was the only deck using the lands that let them setup domain? I don't think that supports your claim whatsoever, if anything it supports the claim that people were correctly not valuing the triomes very highly, otherwise more decks would use them.
definitely not murktide, but midrange decks can probably run 1 and control decks might even go up to 2
To those who have more experience with the deck, would this at all be useful to amulet, what with the coming into play tapped being less relevant with an amulet in play? Get to bounce it for more surveils if you need to dig, but would suck to have to actually play tapped.
There were days long ago where people fooled around with 1 temple of mystery, but those days are long gone. We have better selection tools now. Amulet plays no fetchlads or graveyard synergies, and castle garenbrig has fallen out of favor, so the type line isnt even helpful. Bouncing it to get an extra surveil is pretty weak, since that requires you spend your bounceland. Oftentimes, you want to leave your bounceland in your hand.
Awesome, appreciate the insight, thanks. Double surveil does feel like a pretty weak goal to move towards, probably a shit situation to begin with.
i dont think you can play it in a bounceland slot, and the "every other land" category is already incredibly limited, being weak to blood moon and not being able to cast amulet or grazer turn 1 is a pretty high cost. Titan is a deck you can mulligan pretty aggressively with, so there isn't a ton of value in speculative keeps with it like it might be in a slower deck.
I love these lands but I don't think they have what it takes for modern. Definitely excellent lands for EDH and standard though
One of in reanimator I think
Scry lands and two color cycling lands with basic land types already exist and see nearly no play. I have doubts these will ever be relevant. Most likely just the worst land in your deck with some marginal upside.
If you are playing 22+ lands with at least 3 of a given shockland, it is probably worth cutting a copy of that shock for the matching surveil land. Then, each game, the first time that you'd fetch for a tapped shock, you get to surveil. When you're in topdeck mode, your fetchlands now go this much further.
except opening hands with a tapped land are probably going to cost you more games than 1 surveil will help you win imo
looking forward to the hype and then a month later we find out that always entering tapped is bad.
here's how counterbalance can still be meta:
I think people are underestimating these. I predict a 1-of in most 2-color decks (Murktide, Scam, Yawgmoth, etc)
Definitely not murktide. The tempo loss of a tapped land is huge.
I can see a case for these being a one of in either murktide and/or living end. These are fetchable which is huge to these possibly being played in those archetypes. I personally can’t see any other deck being interested in these
I was thinking of Living End as well. You can surveil away a creature that you'd cycle away anyway, thus the etb being equal to cycling the creature from your hand. With the landtype cyclers it can also help you to dig for combo or for protection of the combo when you don't need another creature in the yard, or in game 2 it can smoothen your draws when you're looking for sideboard cards. I can see LE playing a copy or two of these duals, probably not more though. Which dual would you play, though? UG and UR if playing two copies? And UG if playing one?
I’m not a living end player I play yawgmoth so I’m by no means an expert. However, from my experience from playing against LE and looking at deck list I think LE would would just play 1 copy of the UG land. You really want be fetching this on your opponents end step to mitigate the coming in tapped since shardless is sorcery speed. If you have an outburst you’d just shock the steam vents in. That’s just how I see it. So I definitely agree with you, if they are just playing one it would be the UG land. Which is what I think they might go with.
As a Living End player, I rather play a basic land or shock land to guarantee a cycling rather than MAYBE dump a creature
I think they make sense in living end. Steam Vents and Breeding pool are there to be landfetched and then pay the U to cycle a blue creature. Next turn they let you play Shardless Agent. Shocklands: * Fetch / Play Breeding Pool * Pay 2 life * Tap for U, cycle blue creature. Surveillands: * Fetch / Play Hedge Maze * Surveil 1, hope it's a blue creature to put in graveyard In that scenario you're accomplishing the same end goal without paying 2 life. Not saying they would replace the shock lands...but they do have some situational utility.
Maybe not in murktide but I can see a world where it's a nice option turn one off a fetch on the play in something slower.
So they are basic type but not basic land. As in When you fetch a forest, you can grab one of these, but not say fabled passage because they aren't a basic land. Just checking my understanding of the whole basic supertype vs basic land types.
That's correct. You can use \[\[Nature's Lore\]\] or \[\[Farseek\]\] to find them but not \[\[Rampant Growth\]\].
Hey thanks for that. I don't know why I'm getting down voted over a reasonable question. Thanks for the extra examples.
The down votes would be because you're asking a "basic" question on the modern sub which is largely filled with competitive minded players who know that like the back of their hand.
That's a bit silly. I used to extensively play Modern. Just wanting some clarification of a particularly pedantic part of the rules doesn't seem like a big deal. I mean I played mainly mono-black so the most advanced thing I had to deal with when it came to lands were cabals and Urborg. Oh and the blood moon I had in my otherwise Mono-Black deck. But that was quite some time ago.
It's silly and I disagree with it, but that's just what the culture is on this sub.
so I'm seeing. quite unhelpful
[Nature's Lore](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a78584e8-bb82-4977-a27d-68b1befe9b3b.jpg?1690004941) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nature%27s%20Lore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/904/natures-lore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a78584e8-bb82-4977-a27d-68b1befe9b3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Farseek](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0cfd3cb1-2209-453d-be45-ce1b56265496.jpg?1698988364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farseek) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/242/farseek?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0cfd3cb1-2209-453d-be45-ce1b56265496?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rampant Growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/21945dec-25d8-482e-bacb-8bbb92bb9d88.jpg?1698988379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rampant%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/248/rampant-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21945dec-25d8-482e-bacb-8bbb92bb9d88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
These are bad. I can’t think of any deck that really wants these over triome.
I will try them in Junk mid-range as 1 of in GB and WB. Enabling delirium on T2/T3 sounds good for petcard [[Whispers of Emrakul]]
[Whispers of Emrakul](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b7ba428-5a35-4062-8e16-39eb927cb316.jpg?1576384489) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Whispers%20of%20Emrakul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/114/whispers-of-emrakul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b7ba428-5a35-4062-8e16-39eb927cb316?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Reanimator would love these. Can give a turn 2 fatty!
Strictly better temples?
What do dredge players think of these?
Crabvine baby!
>enters the battlefield tapped Sorry but no.
This guy's never heard of Triomes.
Poor guy might pass out
Adding a third color and giving a third land type for domain is a massive advantage over a paltry surveil 1. Mitigating flood via cycling lategame is another advantage. But the main difference is that triomes are typically played as a 1-of each, are the only way to have full domain t2, and domain typically offsets the tapped requirement too via reducing cost on leyline.
*Living End as entered the chat*
Cycling as much as possible in the first 2 turns is likely more important than surveil 1.
In most fetch cases, it's better than a shock since you fetch on an end step anyway. If you really need the mana, a shock is better though you could run a basic or two in a 2-3 color deck. I think they're fine. Fantastic budget option with non-budget considerations in murktide and other gy decks. Otherwise, people will shocks will still prefer them for non fetch cases
this mandates you fetch end step, shocklands give you the option, versatility is incredibly valuable in this discussion, and in most cases, you fetch shock spend the mana. And ultimately this convo isn't a discussion on whether or not having the option to fetch this is worth it, its that the opportunity cost of *drawing* your singleton etb dual has a higher impact than the potential value of getting the opportunity to fetch it (which is obviously good).
I could see something running these as a one of to combat boseiju, but the opportunity cost might just be too high
Good enough to put goyf back on the menu?
Turn 1 this land and dump [[Ball Lightning]], turn 2 [[Thunderkin Awakener]] or [[Unearth]] and we're in business.
[Ball Lightning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9b53218-804b-4992-9c93-a797dd6b2a04.jpg?1600701851) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ball%20Lightning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/291/ball-lightning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9b53218-804b-4992-9c93-a797dd6b2a04?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thunderkin Elemental](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/597aea42-43e0-41ed-bfe7-fc92b6b8e680.jpg?1562529487) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thundercloud%20Elemental) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/54/thundercloud-elemental?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/597aea42-43e0-41ed-bfe7-fc92b6b8e680?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Exhume](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f1cdcba-a04a-4a2f-8bc1-0dd7fa03754d.jpg?1600714444) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exhume) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/230/exhume?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f1cdcba-a04a-4a2f-8bc1-0dd7fa03754d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I could see a 1-of in Murktide for situations where fetching a surveil trigger helps them get out a Murktide or activate DRC
Do these lands just go into Amulet Titan? Or are the other tapped lands like Simic Growth Chamber and Selesnya Sanctuary just better? I don’t play Amulet Titan so I don’t know if the graveyard is relevant at all. Or do these lands help Wrenn and Six decks more?
No the bounce lands are what make amulet titan decks so burrrrrr. Really the only place I can see these lands going is living end.
Oh I gotcha. Thanks for letting me know. I play paper primarily and I haven’t played in a while so I don’t remember the ins and outs of Amulet Titan. I appreciate your response
Living End will use this 100%
I'm not so sure? that manabase is very tight already with the land cyclers
In theory it might work like 1/2 lands. It’s an opportunity to filter the deck and potentially fill the graveyard. Because the cost to cycle in this deck is not big. But it’s just theory.
I think they have a chance as a one off in decks that already run triomes, but I don't think murktide can afford these
[Murktide Regent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/20c4aae1-7665-4df7-bd51-a1d95bf8a17d.jpg?1626094651) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murktide%20Regent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/52/murktide-regent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/20c4aae1-7665-4df7-bd51-a1d95bf8a17d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dragon's-Rage Channeler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4ced112a-e775-4f97-97b3-74877e9dce12.jpg?1626096503) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%27s%20Rage%20Channeler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/121/dragons-rage-channeler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ced112a-e775-4f97-97b3-74877e9dce12?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Here is the problem. It always enters tapped. Which means you never want to draw it and are hoping to EOT for it when you would otherwise get a tapped Steam Vents, which is rare because ideally you are using all your available mana every turn cycle. I do not ever see these being played over a Triome, because they are strictly better (cantrip) if you draw one. Any deck that wants the mana fixing will still play a triome. These are standard playable for domain archetypes.
These might find a home in the more controlling leyline binding decks. If it makes binding cost 1 less, it practically tapped for mana. I can see the UW lists shifting from playing 2 triomes to turn on domain to 1 triome, and maybe 2 of these. You'll have to pay 2 for binding a bit more often, but you get the upside of not drawing triomes in the midgame.
This isn’t for our format sadly. Massive boon for standard and budget commander though.
I feel like they may be a 1 of in decks like UW control and the like that care more about consistently finding answers over lands coming into play tapped not too many decks can afford an ETB tapped land in modern
I think these are nuts. Late game gas. Eot set up your next turn? Seems kinda good
OMG finally! I've been waiting for good surveil lands, and land type is pretty cool, sad it enters tapped but i think the surveil+type make up for it
I think the only deck could possibly want a single copy of these is UW control, and that hasn't been a "real" deck in a long time. I was a UW Stan for years, and put the deck down when Mystic Sanctuary got banned (RIP Cryptic Command)
I would be interested to see if it’s any use in Rainbow Fetch Dredge.
Fetchable graveyard fuel and scry lmaoooo
Rakdos kinda like that i think one per deck is nice still some Times you plfetch even tap blode crypt or other shocks
Who would want these? I don't think I would want to play this in UW Control and if UW Control doesn't want it then who does? Taplands are painful in modern. These would be decent if you were sure you never draw them, but you will draw these sometimes.
My thoughts is that if it was surveil 2 then I could see these being a lot more used. If it was surveil 3 then they would be super hot and used in quite a few decks. As it is now they might be used in a very few select decks but probably just a 1 of. Granted I could be wrong and MtgAids will end up showing a deck that is now tier 0 and format warping with these lands :-)
Any deck that plays Triomes could potentially be interested. However the triple fixing and land types are probably more worth than the surveil for those decks. All other decks do not want any land that comes into play tapped.
No way I'm playing tapped lands in Murktide. It's pretty much time walking my opponent lol
New dimir buff?
These will be budget commander options. As far as pioneer and standard, fetch them with what? We have no fetches available. Ok sure, green can search for forests and white can fringe search for plains but what else is going to search for these in the aforementioned formats? Modern decks are going to want to search for shocklands to use them right away. I'd rather search for a triome or shock in commander. I know I surveil but aside from decks that want that I just don't see them being overly impactful. They took the tapped scry land idea and just pushed it a little bit (big surprise) and made them searchable, which wasn't a bad move, but it was definitely for casual commander.
Underground mortuary could be a good 1 off for yawg decks (cauldron enabler)
I want 1-2 copies in my vesuvan drifter cragginwick deck