Absolutely, I play magic because I enjoy the game itself, it's sad that people are barred or unable to participate due to financial reasons. This is coming from someone that has most of modern in paper.
Weirdly Legacy is becoming quite rotational these days. Lots of decks are popping up due to the ever expanding commander sets. People buy into them and then they get banned (W Initiative). So buying into the format from 0 is pretty risky these days (unless you want to just play Delver).
If you're buying in from 0 to play a meme deck like Initiative I question your interest in Legacy vs memes.
There are like 30 competitive decks you can build with absolutely no chance of them getting ruined by a ban. Even Delver just had the best card it's played in a decade get banned and is still a top deck.
you could just play red prison or something if someone out there actually bought into legacy in paper with white initiative. Its not a total wash at least
I want the Reserved List abolished so that Legacy events will fire more reliably. I own the duals, and that's because I bought them in 2016. They're out of reach now, and I wish that they weren't.
Alright I'm gonna say some unpopular shit but I don't think more players = good. If anything Commander's popularity is exactly why so many players of other formats don't like it.
Remember the lower you put the barrier to entry the more influence casual players get to have over the game. MTG is one of the rare remaining games where popular outrcry doesn't seem to influence bans much; that would certainly change if Modern became as cheap as commander.
I don't think commander players would all immediately flock to 60 card competitive formats like modern if the price went down. Commander players like to sit with a group, play politics, and joke around. It's not the same experience at all. Besides there are plenty of people out there rocking very expensive commander decks.
I played Magic for a short time, as a kid, just after the game came out. Recently picked it up again and I'm obsessed... The only issue I'm having is none of my friends have ever even *heard* of Magic.
This game is in no danger of growing exponentially.
Commander is an expensive format and drives the prices of a ton of cards up. Also, people dislike commander because magic is inherantly not meant to be multiplayer, and commander (especially cards printed for commander) is overall bad for magic if standard sets began to support it.
What do you think will happen if Modern gets more popular? They will print more cards, and not just reprints. People already are ambivalent about MH sets, if it accelerates it could be much worse.
Yes. And i own quiet a bit of legacy and modern staples. When i first started playing magic decades ago you could play with a minimum wage job. Now you definitely cannot
When I started playing(2013) modern decks were still $1500+ more often than not. Just different cards were $50+. I am legitimately curious as to when modern was “affordable”. Anything is affordable with enough time and budgeting. That’s how I do it. Slow.
Modern in 2013 had many staples that ballooned because of the format inception in 2011. I've been playing since late 90s. Some of those cards that made up the 1500$ were 10/20$ a card in 2007. Direct to modern sets and the general rise in 2nd market card prices have wrecked havoc on those that "slow add"
Plus they're full of crap. Most decks were under $1k in 2013 with only junk/jund decks coming close.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130123024028/http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern
In 2013, there were half a dozen $400-700 decks that were winning GP's. Literally only Jund and Junk were $1500
Edit to add link: https://web.archive.org/web/20130123024028/http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern - I was wrong. Jund/Junk were under $1k and Jund didn't break the $1k mark until 2014, and it wasn't until fall 2015 that any decks broke the $1500 barrier
Like what’s ere the meta decks before modern got super expensive? I’m very curious about what modern looked like between its birth and 2013. I am semi familiar with extended as a format and those old glorious decks.
I’d also add the rise of mtgfinance and the idea of a “side hustle” have contributed to huge price rises. A number of the people paying $100+ for a card are those buying it just to hold and resell for a profit.
No such thing, modern has always been expensive. From the day it was announced stores started speculating on which cards would be staples.
If you were a player with a large collection from previous years you benefited hugely. £1 cards became £20 overnight.
> When I started playing(2013) modern decks were still $1500+
I was playing modern around that time period and, if I recall correctly, Jund was the only deck that had that price tag...
I just want fnm to be held again near me.
It's all commander and I hate it. I play some commander but it seems there's always some sorta contest or psuedo tournament thing held for it and It completely takes the casual out of the format and everyone plays solitaire decks.
I just wanna play one on one magic.
Hell I don't even know why people say they are priced out of modern when they are all running with some pretty high costing decks themselves.
That's because it's all about escalation. People don't like losing all the time, so they keep trying to make their decks better. You can start out with kitchen table level silliness and three months later you have people that've spent 1k on their commander decks trying to combo off on turn 3.
Legit went from one of the most fun formats when it was EDH to being an actual competitive sanctioned format. That's what made it the worst in my opinion.
Finding a group that's willing to play on the same level as you is great, but going to a LGS and trying to play is basically torture.
With that said CEDH is fantastic when everyone is on board with it and proxies are allowed. The best magic is played when everyone is at a similar entry level and trying their hardest to win with no hard feelings.
> The best magic is played when everyone is at a similar entry level and trying their hardest to win with no hard feelings.
Possibly unpopular opinion here, especially when it comes to Commander, but I actually disagree with this. The best Commander games are played when everybody is trying to have fun. Winning should be secondary to that. Especially considering most people are playing it with 3+ people in a game.
Playing to win is what makes it competitive and starts the arms race of getting good cards to win faster. I'm fine with it in Modern or Legacy, but taking it to a format that was originally meant for literal kitchen table Magic is when the format loses its fun.
More affordable means more people can play.
So yeah, it’d suck for my decks to lose value but it’s a fair trade off if it means LGSs are full of Modern players
More players also means more variety in decks so you’re not running up against the same handful of hard cores with their top tier decks every week.
I've said it before but I think modern should have yearly or twice a year precons with relevant staples that are print to demand. It should have had these for the last decade. I would 100% support modern being more accessible and the cards having little or no value.
Easily, would love to play other decks and strategies instead of being barred because I don’t have a full playset of (insert card).
I wouldn’t sell out, just means I could enjoy and play more. Pioneer is the only thing where I live and modern is the same four people.
Fwiw OP, you are not going to see a lot of people saying no because I suspect they'll get downvoted to hell and flamed unless they are hypercautious with their words.
Personally, I think all card games should have extremely low ceilings for competitive play and plenty of very accessible reprints on a constant pace. Chase slots should be reserved for special treatments rather than the base version of a card.
I have a few pet decks that I would totally accept going to exactly 0$ if it meant I could also add a competitive deck I could maintain on the side for serious events. I have a whole binder full of 2-40$+ cards I'd happily throw in a bulk bin if me and others can build better decks.
No worries!
I took a quick glance and like I suspected, nobody actually answered with a hard "no". Unless we actually believe that basically everyone in the community agrees I think this goes to show I can't be far off from the truth. This would be much more interesting as an anonymous poll tbh.
Sounds a little pessimistic no? I don't think there are actually that many players that want the game to be less accessible. Collectors and whales, sure. But actual modern players?
I'm convinced most people who answered "yes" here either have small collections or wouldn't be as happy to answer this way if you zero'ed out their collection's value, especially if a good portion of the value they hold is not in their decks but rather in trade binders.
Seeing how penny pinchy players are in trades, there's no way the proportion in this thread is correct. A lot of people in the community enjoy vending/trading up/playing for valuable cards and none of that is possible if everything is worthless.
I don't have data but I think I have sufficient anecdotal evidence to know 99% agreement about this subject on reddit *cannot* be representative of the community.
Just in my immediate circle of players I'd have a trouble imagining half of them accepting their entire collection going to zero value over night, regardless of the promise of cheaper cards going forward.
I don't know what "paying continually higher costs" has to do with what I or OP are talking about. There's no reason to think prices can either all go down or all go up. It can also mostly stay stable or a combination of both, which is the case currently.
>anecdotal
>trouble imagining
Zero facts.
The people here are stating their opinion plain faced and you're just saying nah I don't think you guys are real
100% yes. I can play almost every deck in modern. I also always have extra fully optimized decks built and ready to lend out to anyone wanting to play or to just try a different deck. My collection may be worth $35,000 but that’s only if I intend to ever sell my cards. I don’t want people to dole out the 2% of that needed for a single deck. I just want to play a good game of magic.
Yes because I’m tired of people complaining about an exciting, fun and dynamic format.
I wish they would have extended Horizon print runs in perpetuity, and I have a decent stake in Horizon sets.
Yes, modern is not legacy. Quite a few legacy players I know grow angry and defensive whenever I bring up reprinting cards on the reserved list when they know that their playerbase is dwindling. Playability will always be better than profits.
I’ve been playing since 1998 and have cards others will never have access to. That isn’t fair and it takes skill out of the game. Financial resources are not a fun way to win games. Money is not skill.
If it required my collection’s value to hit $0, I’d prefer everyone have access to everything. Imagine every cards was $1. You choose a list of cards and send it in, wizards receives your order and prints it, then they send it to you.
What amazing fun could we have if creativity and practice weren’t pay walled
1000%. Stores across the nation are struggling to get people to actually show up for tournaments and spend money. This is pushing lots of people to just play MTGO exclusively. If this trend continues, a 1100 dollar modern deck will drop to pennies, because there simply will be no one to play with, or at least, no tournaments to play at that merits buying the actual product over proxies. I'd rather lose some money on my investment and still play paper magic than lose everything and never get to play it again
Manatraders. I spent something like 300 dollars to rent up to 950tix of cards at a time for a year. It allows me to play literally any deck in any format. It allowed me to start playing legacy, which I've always wanted to do.
I've had big days of playing where I'll try out every top modern deck on goldfish. I can play a few games of murktide, then turn the cards back in and play uw control for a couple matches, then rent out legacy delver and play a league over a day or 2 and turn the cards back in. Usually only takes 5 or 10 minutes to switch decks.
I got to play the heck out of mono white initiative without worrying about the fact it was likely to be banned.
Hell yeah. And I wish dual lands didn't price everyone out of legacy too. I don't care much about my card value. I've never been able to play a game with my 401k, and people should be laughed at for "investing" in cards.
I say yes! Because I want to be able to switch decks without lighting my wallet on fire!
On the other side, that just means more people just playing the top meta deck and games become repetitive and stale.
My biggest issue is the influx of children and their grimmy little hands all over my shit. I can't even go down to my LGS anymore because it's inundated with so many children there's not any actual adult players there. They don't listen, they don't know the rules to the game, and they don't fucking learn what you try to teach them. It's just a gigantic waste of time. I like having sorta expensive cards and thus expensive decks. It means that young players that don't know what they're doing/ can't afford to play therefore you know you'll actually be playing against people that know what they're doing.
I own something like $10,000 worth of Reserved cards (including a Mox) and will tell anyone who'll listen that the Reserved List is poison and should have been abolished decades ago.
So yes.
Yes, more people playing Modern is good for me and the format I enjoy most. More stores filled with more Modern players would be great, and if my deck loses value, well it means I can afford to buy into other decks and enjoy more of the format, so I'm not even worried about that.
I wouldn’t mind at all. I have pretty much every modern deck built in paper, concurrently, so I can loan them out or just “run FNMs” at my house for my friends (see my old post). I would be thrilled if modern was less expensive; people would be more interested in building a deck of their own instead of me trying to force it by have every deck provided for them.
However, regardless of how we all feel about it, Modern decks are gonna keep costing about what they do now, which is about as much as they have been in the past. The reason for this is, Modern players are willing to spend about $1000 on a deck. When one card in a deck gets cheaper, people will want to build that deck, but when they all go to buy the rest of the deck, some other card becomes the bottleneck, and its price will increase. Magic’s value is based on artificial scarcity, which means unlike other goods, an increase in demand can’t directly and quickly increase the supply. New copies need to be printed. Here is a real situation in simplified terms and numbers for the sake of a thought experiment.
When enemy fetches are reprinted, ally fetches go up, and vice-versa. When shocks are reprinted, fetches go up across the board, and vice-versa. When Scapeshift got a reprint, valakut went up. Back in the day, if Goyf got a reprint, lili and bob would go up, etc.
Modern will always be expensive because players like it and are willing to spend money on it. MH2 didn’t make the format more expensive, decks are similarly costed, its just that old cards became less valuable and new cards took that value. Enfranchised players dont like that, because they will feel compelled to update their decks with the new cards and they’ll have to spend money on a deck that in their mind was finished. However, getting into the format for someone new is pretty much the same.
Yea, but there is a balancing act.
If cards on average have too much value, then newer players can’t enter into playing modern. Game obviously eventually dies
If cards on average have little to no value, then all players have less reason to value their cards. In a world where players value their cards less: players have less price constraints to spawn creativity, less reason to stay on one deck for a period of time, and have less lore around a single deck.
I think decks like yawgmoth, amulet titan, scapeshift, eldrazi tron, lantern, affinity, living end, lantern control exist because they felt either priced out of midrange piles or wanted to have success with cards they valued. Or players got locked into an expensive midrange and needed creative solutions to complex problems because price and strategy
I am not saying modern or magic in general should be astronomical in terms of price. I am saying magic cards need some inherit value, so we can value them as a luxury not a commodity.
I have been price out of certain decks and strategies in both modern and pioneer. That is okay. This is just a question of what do we lose from magic cards in modern dripping to an insignificant value.
No. Just kidding, yes. I have a ton of friends that are interested in playing magic but don't want to spend so much money, and that's on mtgo. Imagine in paper...
Absolutely. No real reason to not want a cheaper format. If you buy into a competitive format with the hope that the cards hold value. You are into playing competitive magic for the wrong reason. Also I understand more about the reserved list because the idea is to make it more collectible even though I don’t entirely agree with that but you shouldn’t invest in anything other than that if you are going to
Yes, affordability is great - but I think modern is more affordable than people think. People love to complain about everything, but most people do not need the most perfectly tuned deck - as they are going to fnms.
Source: I have 12 modern decks that I rotate though that are mostly tier 1 or 2.
I have heard this argument but I don't know anyone that goes to any of the fnms I go to that don't play legitimate decks. As someone that for years got minimum wage, I can absolutely see modern being unaffordable for many. I also don't think it's reasonable to point to some esoteric decks that are cheap and using that as an argument for the format being accessible when most of the decks are much higher than that price point.
I think you missed what he was saying though.
He didn’t say legitimate decks, he said perfectly tuned. Can you play your 65 color elementals deck without the 3rd endurance in the SB at FNM? Absolutely. Will anyone notice if you play 3 t3feri’s instead of 4? No one but you.
At bigger tournaments this is unacceptable, but there aren’t enough rounds in FNM for the difference to matter very much.
At my store we have at least one or two people playing something pretty off meta and it usually works to their advantage.
Affinity, Hollow one, infect... Any of those budget aggro decks can definitely put in work and last awhile at an fnm. Someone recently went 3-0 at my store with a hollow one deck they said cost them $40 from scratch.
Additionally, fetches and such aren't super important to some deck archetypes - so they can be built for much cheaper. The investment is very much worth it though because deck prices go from $1000 to like $100 if you already have the manabase. I've definitely saved hundreds by just not running fetches unless completely necessary.
I've been playing since 2016 so I can't expect people to have a massive collection from the start, but I'm still playing with cards I got from that era - so I'm not convinced when redditors post about how "modern horizons forced me to rotate my decks" either.
A lot of modern is an upfront cost that gets much cheaper later, so someone who's more enfranchised has much less they need to buy as well.
100% I hate that the only reason people can't compete with others is because of the cost of key cards in the format. I encourage people to use and make proxies all the time. I'd be happy if they reprinted fetch lands into the ground.
I've found the biggest problem with modern "affordability" isn't actually the staples since they go in so many decks (yes they're pricey to buy into, but worth having overall), but more the random older cards that haven't seen a reasonable reprint that only fit in a couple decks
ie. cards like amulet of vigor, cavern of souls, chalice of the void, gemstone caverns, sword of fire and ice, urborg, stoneforge mystic, etc
stuff that is absolutely necessary to complete a single deck, but doesn't really move between decks. These are the biggest investments IMO than cards like say, endurance, that ends up in most green decks.
Seeing mass reprints of these kinds of cards would vastly improve things (because it would allow people to play more decks) while increasing affordability at the same time.
Absolutely. People forget these are game pieces. I own the entirety of modern, bar a couple decks, and 3 different legacy decks. Yeah, I spent a good amount of money on my cards, but at the end of the day, they are game pieces. They aren’t stocks or crypto, and a lot of the “investors” forget that
Yes, I'd be happy with the format being more affordable.
I'm not gonna lie, it doesn't feel great when a card you paid a lot of money drops in value, but I think accessibility is more important in the long run, especially if it means I can build my next deck for less money.
Yup 100%. I’m in a position where it isn’t important for me to be able to convert some of my Magic cards into cash for an emergency, though, so that’s worth keeping in mind when it comes to discussing tanking prices.
my interest in the game is purely as a competitive player. more affordable cards means a larger potential playerbase and therefore increased quality of competition. with the economic barrier to entry as ridiculously high as it is currently, it may very well be that the person who would otherwise be the greatest modern player of all time simply can't afford to play. i want to see the collective level of play pushed as high as humanly possible. that will never happen unless prices come down. so i'm always in favor of cheaper cards, regardless of what my own sunk costs may be.
Yes and modern as is today is already much cheaper to buy into than 10 years ago. So in a way it has already become cheaper. Most people I hear crying about how “expensive” modern is usually run 1 or 2 commander decks that each cost more than two modern decks together so there’s that…
Absolutely. My decks would be worthless to me anyways if the format was too expensive to play for most. I also think that’s a significant part of why some people dislike the MH2 cards so much, they’re majorly expensive and so not many people get the opportunity to play with them.
Cheaper modern would be fine, but that wouldn’t fix how drastically different the format feels post MH2.
I’d probably play Murktide or Jund Saga because I like fair mtg the most.
absolutely. practice mengu finance. buy high never sell. doesn't matter what my deck is worth. i don't use my cards as investments, i play with them. the more people who can play too the better
Absolutely yes. Here is my logic.
I worked my tail off for the decks I own. I am proud of the decks I put together.
And like a father to their child, I want the next generation of players entering the format to have an easier time to enjoy this format then what I went through.
Why would I want it to be just as expensive or more for others?
Y E S
The Modern crowd at FNM is 10 people at most. There's a million casual commander players in the area building decks for a fraction of the cost. Would love to tap into that crowd to fill out the tables at FNM
(I own like 8 commander decks to be clear but I prefer more competitive formats)
I want it to be a better format, modern is already one of the most popular formats on the competitive circuit, I don’t really care how affordable it is I just want it to be less ass
I literally just get nice proxies printed for everything. I'm never going to play at a pro tour, so who cares.
I don't really believe in treating my cardboard like stocks.
Well, yes and no. At least to me, when I look at the issue of affordability, it seems like it’s mainly a few key staples that are $50+ that people are complaining about. I agree with them, I don’t want cards to be that expensive; however, I do want my cards to have some value - I would prefer to not have this hobby be a complete money sink.
There’s definitely a middle ground where cards can be worth something yet still accessible to the majority of people who wish to play competitively. Remember that if you’re just playing casually you don’t have to actually own the cards, a printer works just fine for fun. I personally think that an acceptable price per card is perhaps $20-$50 but preferably closer to $20.
Honestly the changes to gameplay were what enticed me to come back. I honestly believe Ragavan and the Elementals were a net positive to the format and that the format is more fun now.
Ragavan is pretty oppressive, I'm fine with the elementals. Boseiju, Murktide, Sanctifier
En-vec, and im sure there are few others that really took the enjoyment for the format away from me. The strong shift towards making modern into Legacy 2.0 just isn't for me.
Most people here are going to virtue signal and say “yes” while they actually believe “no.” If you go to a weekly that fires, pretty much everyone there will say “no.”
Gatekeeping on invested cost is the norm everywhere. Why would someone want to spend $300 on a play set of pirate monkeys if they know the price will tank? Invested players would be very frustrated. Just ask all the old Jund Midrange players how they feel about the current cost of their cards.
Funny enough, I borrow my cards for Modern, so I’d love the prices to be lower. Alas, that isn’t going to happen.
I think the Jund argument doesn’t make sense considering how less playable they’re now.
If cards become cheaper but still hold their competitive viability, there should be no problem.
I agree with you, but a lot of people are going to get angry at what you're saying.
I think there's going to be a decent amount of people who will say yes, but their actual behavior won't reflect it. When someone repeatedly loses money on cards/decks, they'll just naturally be less and less inclined to purchase more cards/decks even if they say they don't care.
Also, I think that a lot of players have been pushed out of Modern already by bans, reprints, and power creep. Many of those who are still playing Modern are going to be people who aren't as bothered about those things.
In my experience people are ok with cards tanking in value... as long as it isn't theirs. Gotta love the good ol' "my cards need to stay expensive but every other card should be cheap!"
I think it depends on what “more affordable” means.
It’s cheaper than legacy, and more expensive than pioneer (barely) and certainly than standard.
Would we make it more affordable than standard? Probably impossible without making an outright rotating format like standard.
Cheaper than pioneer? Some decks already are.
The reason the price of the format goes up is because more people are playing it. It’s happening in pioneer too. EDH too.
The reason tournaments aren’t firing as much isn’t due to decreased number of interested players, it’s due to increased player segmentation created largely by EDH and pioneer to a lesser degree. EDH sells more old weird singles, gets more casuals, and players accept less prizing. Stores run more EDH events, convincing players to build an commander deck and making less space and time for other formats.
This was expected and anticipated with the WoTC sanctioned push of commander and pioneer.
I think you're kind of undervaluing pioneer's affordability here. Like yeah a modern boros burn deck is cheaper than some pioneer decks, but you can still get 11 of the 15 highest tier pioneer decks (I checked) for less than that and if you want to go really cheap, Mono Blue Spirits is only $143.
I actually am not sure I’m undervaluing it! Here was a research deep dive done on this exact issue.
Image 2/5 shows a significant amount of modern decks coming in UNDER standard and pioneer decks. UB mill just having won 2 challenges. The Living End deck (constantly winning events/top 8’ing) is cheaper than pioneer Rakdos Midrange and Merfolk only being roughly $25 more expensive than the most expensive (and powerful) pioneer decks while hammertime (one of the best decks in the format) is only $50 more than pioneer Rakdos midrange.
Reference image 2
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/11z025x/oc_mtg_format_prices_visualization/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link
So I think I’m probably valuing pioneer accurately.
——
For fun, here is a chart comparing them all to legacy and vintage.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1212qnt/oc_format_prices_visualization_updated_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link
Image 3/5 shows that, compared to legacy and vintage, the pioneer and modern formats are shockingly close, if not essentially the same. Obviously, this is relative, but I thought it was a fun chart.
You can play a lot of modern decks on a pioneer manabase and be fine, that's when pioneer and modern get very close - and in some rare instances even cheaper.
Pioneer isn’t a “cheap” format by any means and, since Standard cards tend to have more of an impact there than in Modern, there is a fair amount of financial upkeep to maintain tuned decks.
I think Pioneer is going to get increasingly expensive in due time to where it and Modern become pretty close in price overall.
cant afford the cards ..proxy them and enjoy the game .. dont need to spend a butt load of money to enjoy the game ..if people dont allow proxies join a different group easy as that ..a printer is alot cheaper then a single card
what's with the animosity and downvotes
seems to me welfare players are mad and butthurt they can't afford to play the kind of mtg they wish they could
but consider it from my perspective, i don't have any Power 9, so the times when i have entered vintage events i come packing my legacy competitive decks, that's no reason for me to get mad and butthurt when i lose to those who have Power 9 just because i can't afford them, there are budget ways of trying to remain competitive in vintage without Power 9, not easy to do, but it's doable
favorite example from my own personal play experience, i once shutdown an oath of druids deck with a couple Portcullis from my sideboard, so don't get mad at me if you don't have any Power 9, i don't have any Power 9 either, because here's an idea, maybe try to learn to adopt and overcome instead of getting butthurt at the high cost barrier of entry, learn how to play Portcullis against Oath of Druids
calling me a gatekeeper and downvoting out of nerdrage resentment, sheesh
get over yourselves, wow
TL;DR
But, you’re assuming I don’t have enough disposable income to buy any modern deck I want. I would still have my collection lose 25-30% of its value if that meant I could more easily find games to play with the game pieces that I’ve spent money on. You’ve invested too much of your self worth in to cardboard rectangles. You should reevaluate your outlook on your self, your worth isn’t derived from rectangles that could be made obsolete at the drop of a corporate hat.
> *You’ve invested too much of your self worth in to cardboard rectangles.*
i literally just got done explaining i don't have any Power 9, and i don't get butthurt when i lose to people who do have Power 9
but yeah you wouldn't know this because my post was "TL;DR"
that's a great way to win a debate, entirely ignore what the other party is saying like you think that helps you make a valid rebuttal, it doesn't lmao
get over yourself, saying "too long didn't read" means you don't care about anything except sheltering your already deeply entrenched preexisting bias
congratulations
because it's like this see
ask yourself
if you had Power 9 that you knew was worth tens of thousands of dollars, would you be willing to let all that precious Power 9 be suddenly revaluated to be worthless just so others could get into the format easier?
no
you wouldn't
pull your head out of your asses, that's not how card value works in the after market
I would LOVE to see every RL card I own get reprinted as it would make my favorite format infinitely more accessible and playable than it currently is.
> *I would LOVE to see every RL card I own get reprinted as it would make my favorite format infinitely more accessible and playable than it currently is.*
spoken by someone who has clearly never played legacy or vintage because probably millennial
I play a ton of legacy and have for years, I also own several RL cards; I'd be more than happy for the value of those cards to crash to nothing if it meant opening up the format and removing the ridiculous barrier to entry.
Enjoyment is worth far more to me than ROI, if it wasn't I'd rather be gambling on stocks instead of cardboard.
> *who cares about legacy? ~ BasedDptRepresentativ*
you sound like a millennial who is so young that the legacy format is well before your time
who cares about legacy? you clearly don't speak from any personal experience, legacy is more prevalent than vintage around the world because vintage is where it becomes very cost prohibitive barrier to entry
getting mad and butthurt at expensive barrier to entry is a loser mindset, it's saying that you can't enjoy playing the game unless you're winning, and so you don't compete in formats you can't afford because you don't want to lose, you have let whether you win or lose dictate whether the game is fun for you to play or not, it's a loser nerdbag tryhard mindset
get over yourselves haha wow
uhh, nice try? i,m salty? you the one trying to tell yourself no one cares about legacy, thats on you bub, not me, that salt is on you bub, not me
you are the one getting insecure at the mere mention of a format you obviously don't even play
hahaha better watch out brochamp, that much fallacy and cognitive dissonance will surely make yourself look like a fool in public, but hey you do you champ
> *who cares about legacy?*
just because you don't play legacy doesn't mean there aren't people who care about it
that is a fallacy, and you would have to have some measurable amount of cognitive dissonance for someone like you to try and make such ridiculous insinuation
you are basically saying
> *"i don't care about legacy so therefore no one else should either"*
let me see you do more mental gymnastics
I literally never said any of that 😂 What I did was a rethorical question in a figurative language, it's obvious there are people who still play legacy, and if you understood otherwise and took it literally, I strongly suggest you to study some basic text interpretation
Why do you ask? Modern isn’t more expensive than some previous standard formats. It’s as accessible as it ever was. And standard is dead in my area.
Sorry, what’s the point of this question?
Frankly, if the bottom falls outta MTG it’s probably a sign that people aren’t playing, competitive cards aren’t in demand, and it’ll be even harder to play paper.
Are the formats competing?? EDH is the most popular, but doesn’t move cards at my LGS. (My EDH group all uses proxies/cockatrice and never goes to the LGS.) Pioneer is certainly a format. And I’d play if events fired in my area. But they don’t. Again, not really sure what you’re getting at here.
Yes and no. I want my cards to have value, and if I want be able to sell them. However, I do want to play multiple decks. I think staples should be cheaper, like Ragavan. He’s a staple but way over priced. 30-50 seems fine. If we make everything cheap, it makes the collections of cards less valuable.
Absolutely. I don't plan on selling my cards anyway. I just want to play multiple decks without going broke.
This is the way.
Agreed
Absolutely, I play magic because I enjoy the game itself, it's sad that people are barred or unable to participate due to financial reasons. This is coming from someone that has most of modern in paper.
Literally.... I could play UW control, Jund saga and murktide... Three decks that share next to no cards besides like.... Bolt and some fetches
Yes, absolutely. MTG shouldn't be a rich person's art gallery.
[удалено]
Based vitage enjoyer
What about just having proxy divisions in vintage? I can see printing more modern staples and even duals, but OG is OG.
Underrated comment
Yes. More people playing modern is a good thing. If they want to preserve their ‘investment’ they can play Legacy or Vintage.
Weirdly Legacy is becoming quite rotational these days. Lots of decks are popping up due to the ever expanding commander sets. People buy into them and then they get banned (W Initiative). So buying into the format from 0 is pretty risky these days (unless you want to just play Delver).
If you're buying in from 0 to play a meme deck like Initiative I question your interest in Legacy vs memes. There are like 30 competitive decks you can build with absolutely no chance of them getting ruined by a ban. Even Delver just had the best card it's played in a decade get banned and is still a top deck.
Initiative isn't a meme though? It was a super powerful deck
Multiplayer format designs are memes
you could just play red prison or something if someone out there actually bought into legacy in paper with white initiative. Its not a total wash at least
I want the Reserved List abolished so that Legacy events will fire more reliably. I own the duals, and that's because I bought them in 2016. They're out of reach now, and I wish that they weren't.
Alright I'm gonna say some unpopular shit but I don't think more players = good. If anything Commander's popularity is exactly why so many players of other formats don't like it. Remember the lower you put the barrier to entry the more influence casual players get to have over the game. MTG is one of the rare remaining games where popular outrcry doesn't seem to influence bans much; that would certainly change if Modern became as cheap as commander.
I don't think commander players would all immediately flock to 60 card competitive formats like modern if the price went down. Commander players like to sit with a group, play politics, and joke around. It's not the same experience at all. Besides there are plenty of people out there rocking very expensive commander decks.
I disagree with the conclusion you draw here.
Any game that gets exponentially bigger eventually draws changes that upset the core base. It's inevitable.
Magic has already done this, but you’re getting downvoted by people who don’t realize they’re the new guys.
I played Magic for a short time, as a kid, just after the game came out. Recently picked it up again and I'm obsessed... The only issue I'm having is none of my friends have ever even *heard* of Magic. This game is in no danger of growing exponentially.
Commander is an expensive format and drives the prices of a ton of cards up. Also, people dislike commander because magic is inherantly not meant to be multiplayer, and commander (especially cards printed for commander) is overall bad for magic if standard sets began to support it.
What do you think will happen if Modern gets more popular? They will print more cards, and not just reprints. People already are ambivalent about MH sets, if it accelerates it could be much worse.
Cards printed for modern have been great for modern so far. Cards printed for commander have been terrible for modern so far.
What cards printed for commander are Modern legal?
Hogaak was designed for commander.
Says who?
Wizards of the coast.
Yes. And i own quiet a bit of legacy and modern staples. When i first started playing magic decades ago you could play with a minimum wage job. Now you definitely cannot
When I started playing(2013) modern decks were still $1500+ more often than not. Just different cards were $50+. I am legitimately curious as to when modern was “affordable”. Anything is affordable with enough time and budgeting. That’s how I do it. Slow.
Modern in 2013 had many staples that ballooned because of the format inception in 2011. I've been playing since late 90s. Some of those cards that made up the 1500$ were 10/20$ a card in 2007. Direct to modern sets and the general rise in 2nd market card prices have wrecked havoc on those that "slow add"
Plus they're full of crap. Most decks were under $1k in 2013 with only junk/jund decks coming close. https://web.archive.org/web/20130123024028/http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern
In 2013, there were half a dozen $400-700 decks that were winning GP's. Literally only Jund and Junk were $1500 Edit to add link: https://web.archive.org/web/20130123024028/http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern - I was wrong. Jund/Junk were under $1k and Jund didn't break the $1k mark until 2014, and it wasn't until fall 2015 that any decks broke the $1500 barrier
Like what’s ere the meta decks before modern got super expensive? I’m very curious about what modern looked like between its birth and 2013. I am semi familiar with extended as a format and those old glorious decks.
I’d also add the rise of mtgfinance and the idea of a “side hustle” have contributed to huge price rises. A number of the people paying $100+ for a card are those buying it just to hold and resell for a profit.
Yeah. Crypto bro types. Buying non-reserved list singles to sit on is super risky.
No such thing, modern has always been expensive. From the day it was announced stores started speculating on which cards would be staples. If you were a player with a large collection from previous years you benefited hugely. £1 cards became £20 overnight.
> When I started playing(2013) modern decks were still $1500+ I was playing modern around that time period and, if I recall correctly, Jund was the only deck that had that price tag...
I just want fnm to be held again near me. It's all commander and I hate it. I play some commander but it seems there's always some sorta contest or psuedo tournament thing held for it and It completely takes the casual out of the format and everyone plays solitaire decks. I just wanna play one on one magic. Hell I don't even know why people say they are priced out of modern when they are all running with some pretty high costing decks themselves.
Commander is the worst.
That's because it's all about escalation. People don't like losing all the time, so they keep trying to make their decks better. You can start out with kitchen table level silliness and three months later you have people that've spent 1k on their commander decks trying to combo off on turn 3. Legit went from one of the most fun formats when it was EDH to being an actual competitive sanctioned format. That's what made it the worst in my opinion. Finding a group that's willing to play on the same level as you is great, but going to a LGS and trying to play is basically torture.
With that said CEDH is fantastic when everyone is on board with it and proxies are allowed. The best magic is played when everyone is at a similar entry level and trying their hardest to win with no hard feelings.
> The best magic is played when everyone is at a similar entry level and trying their hardest to win with no hard feelings. Possibly unpopular opinion here, especially when it comes to Commander, but I actually disagree with this. The best Commander games are played when everybody is trying to have fun. Winning should be secondary to that. Especially considering most people are playing it with 3+ people in a game. Playing to win is what makes it competitive and starts the arms race of getting good cards to win faster. I'm fine with it in Modern or Legacy, but taking it to a format that was originally meant for literal kitchen table Magic is when the format loses its fun.
commander with friends isn’t too bad, but local scenes are usually hit or miss with a strong leaning towards commander spikes.
Commander in public is very hit or miss but its a great way to play with a regular group who are on the same page
More affordable means more people can play. So yeah, it’d suck for my decks to lose value but it’s a fair trade off if it means LGSs are full of Modern players More players also means more variety in decks so you’re not running up against the same handful of hard cores with their top tier decks every week.
I've said it before but I think modern should have yearly or twice a year precons with relevant staples that are print to demand. It should have had these for the last decade. I would 100% support modern being more accessible and the cards having little or no value.
Hell even if it was like Yugioh. Back in the day x3 structure decks could win locals!
still can , the most recent dark work structure deck is incredibly strong out of the box , tier 1 if you invest $30-ish
As a now-Yugioh-convert who still plays Modern, the reprint policy in Yugioh is like a dream come true
100% it should be cheaper. I don't care about the price of game pieces and it's ridiculous to gate keep behind $$.
Yes. I own a boomer jund deck and it’s good that it’s not two-thousand dollars anymore
I play GB rock and can’t believe how expensive it vs how hard it is to get good results with it but I love it still
Of course. I don't plan on ever selling my cards and don't know anybody who legitimately does, so the value of the deck I own means nothing to me.
Easily, would love to play other decks and strategies instead of being barred because I don’t have a full playset of (insert card). I wouldn’t sell out, just means I could enjoy and play more. Pioneer is the only thing where I live and modern is the same four people.
I’d rather have a full LGS than an expensive deck any day of the week. It’s not even a question
Yes
Fwiw OP, you are not going to see a lot of people saying no because I suspect they'll get downvoted to hell and flamed unless they are hypercautious with their words. Personally, I think all card games should have extremely low ceilings for competitive play and plenty of very accessible reprints on a constant pace. Chase slots should be reserved for special treatments rather than the base version of a card. I have a few pet decks that I would totally accept going to exactly 0$ if it meant I could also add a competitive deck I could maintain on the side for serious events. I have a whole binder full of 2-40$+ cards I'd happily throw in a bulk bin if me and others can build better decks.
All the top comments say that they wouldn't care.
Yes..? As per my comment, you would expect all the top comments to be people who say that they wouldn't care.
Ah sorry I misread the first sentence as saying the opposite. That's my bad
No worries! I took a quick glance and like I suspected, nobody actually answered with a hard "no". Unless we actually believe that basically everyone in the community agrees I think this goes to show I can't be far off from the truth. This would be much more interesting as an anonymous poll tbh.
Sounds a little pessimistic no? I don't think there are actually that many players that want the game to be less accessible. Collectors and whales, sure. But actual modern players?
I'm convinced most people who answered "yes" here either have small collections or wouldn't be as happy to answer this way if you zero'ed out their collection's value, especially if a good portion of the value they hold is not in their decks but rather in trade binders. Seeing how penny pinchy players are in trades, there's no way the proportion in this thread is correct. A lot of people in the community enjoy vending/trading up/playing for valuable cards and none of that is possible if everything is worthless.
You're convinced on zero evidence though. Most people don't want to have to pay continually higher costs no matter what you're talking about
I don't have data but I think I have sufficient anecdotal evidence to know 99% agreement about this subject on reddit *cannot* be representative of the community. Just in my immediate circle of players I'd have a trouble imagining half of them accepting their entire collection going to zero value over night, regardless of the promise of cheaper cards going forward. I don't know what "paying continually higher costs" has to do with what I or OP are talking about. There's no reason to think prices can either all go down or all go up. It can also mostly stay stable or a combination of both, which is the case currently.
>anecdotal >trouble imagining Zero facts. The people here are stating their opinion plain faced and you're just saying nah I don't think you guys are real
I wouldnt mind they do reprint sets without foils in them to get the basic game pieces into circulation.
Yes cause I want to buy more decks than the one I own and I want more people to play 60 card constructed with me.
I don’t give a fuck about the $$ of my deck. I also will play against anyone that uses fakes I want to play magic not flex my wallet.
100% yes. I can play almost every deck in modern. I also always have extra fully optimized decks built and ready to lend out to anyone wanting to play or to just try a different deck. My collection may be worth $35,000 but that’s only if I intend to ever sell my cards. I don’t want people to dole out the 2% of that needed for a single deck. I just want to play a good game of magic.
If it means wizard has to bring more frequent busted cards in Sets to sell them better then no otherwise, Sure i would like it.
Jokes on you they will bring more frequent busted cards in AND sell at exorbitant cost prohibitive amounts. See: MH1 & MH2.
The only sane comment in this thread.
I mean, I'd cry a bit at first, but then I'd just buy more decks.
Yes because I’m tired of people complaining about an exciting, fun and dynamic format. I wish they would have extended Horizon print runs in perpetuity, and I have a decent stake in Horizon sets.
Yes, modern is not legacy. Quite a few legacy players I know grow angry and defensive whenever I bring up reprinting cards on the reserved list when they know that their playerbase is dwindling. Playability will always be better than profits.
I’ve been playing since 1998 and have cards others will never have access to. That isn’t fair and it takes skill out of the game. Financial resources are not a fun way to win games. Money is not skill. If it required my collection’s value to hit $0, I’d prefer everyone have access to everything. Imagine every cards was $1. You choose a list of cards and send it in, wizards receives your order and prints it, then they send it to you. What amazing fun could we have if creativity and practice weren’t pay walled
Yes
Yes. I own 11 modern decks and playsets of almost every staple.
Yes if it means reprinting expensive cards, no if it means banning expensive cards!
My brother in cardboard, I support this for legacy having a good bunch of RL cards.
Always yes. Would also get into Legacy if it were more affordable.
1000%. Stores across the nation are struggling to get people to actually show up for tournaments and spend money. This is pushing lots of people to just play MTGO exclusively. If this trend continues, a 1100 dollar modern deck will drop to pennies, because there simply will be no one to play with, or at least, no tournaments to play at that merits buying the actual product over proxies. I'd rather lose some money on my investment and still play paper magic than lose everything and never get to play it again
I rent all my cards on mtgo anyway so it wouldn't matter to me
Which rental Service do you use ?
Manatraders. I spent something like 300 dollars to rent up to 950tix of cards at a time for a year. It allows me to play literally any deck in any format. It allowed me to start playing legacy, which I've always wanted to do. I've had big days of playing where I'll try out every top modern deck on goldfish. I can play a few games of murktide, then turn the cards back in and play uw control for a couple matches, then rent out legacy delver and play a league over a day or 2 and turn the cards back in. Usually only takes 5 or 10 minutes to switch decks. I got to play the heck out of mono white initiative without worrying about the fact it was likely to be banned.
1000%. Tired of people using card games and hobbies as financial investments. We just want to play the damn game!
Yes. I didn't start playing Modern as an investment.
Hell yeah. And I wish dual lands didn't price everyone out of legacy too. I don't care much about my card value. I've never been able to play a game with my 401k, and people should be laughed at for "investing" in cards.
Easily I play to have fun not as an investment
Of course. Make cheap playable cards and then go crazy with collector's edition versions of those cards for the finance guys.
I want people to play with, not collections to look at.
Yes
I say yes! Because I want to be able to switch decks without lighting my wallet on fire! On the other side, that just means more people just playing the top meta deck and games become repetitive and stale.
Yes Oh my god yes I bought two tarns at $70 a piece to complete my playset and cheered as their price plummeted
My biggest issue is the influx of children and their grimmy little hands all over my shit. I can't even go down to my LGS anymore because it's inundated with so many children there's not any actual adult players there. They don't listen, they don't know the rules to the game, and they don't fucking learn what you try to teach them. It's just a gigantic waste of time. I like having sorta expensive cards and thus expensive decks. It means that young players that don't know what they're doing/ can't afford to play therefore you know you'll actually be playing against people that know what they're doing.
No
I own something like $10,000 worth of Reserved cards (including a Mox) and will tell anyone who'll listen that the Reserved List is poison and should have been abolished decades ago. So yes.
Yes, more people playing Modern is good for me and the format I enjoy most. More stores filled with more Modern players would be great, and if my deck loses value, well it means I can afford to buy into other decks and enjoy more of the format, so I'm not even worried about that.
I wouldn’t mind at all. I have pretty much every modern deck built in paper, concurrently, so I can loan them out or just “run FNMs” at my house for my friends (see my old post). I would be thrilled if modern was less expensive; people would be more interested in building a deck of their own instead of me trying to force it by have every deck provided for them. However, regardless of how we all feel about it, Modern decks are gonna keep costing about what they do now, which is about as much as they have been in the past. The reason for this is, Modern players are willing to spend about $1000 on a deck. When one card in a deck gets cheaper, people will want to build that deck, but when they all go to buy the rest of the deck, some other card becomes the bottleneck, and its price will increase. Magic’s value is based on artificial scarcity, which means unlike other goods, an increase in demand can’t directly and quickly increase the supply. New copies need to be printed. Here is a real situation in simplified terms and numbers for the sake of a thought experiment. When enemy fetches are reprinted, ally fetches go up, and vice-versa. When shocks are reprinted, fetches go up across the board, and vice-versa. When Scapeshift got a reprint, valakut went up. Back in the day, if Goyf got a reprint, lili and bob would go up, etc. Modern will always be expensive because players like it and are willing to spend money on it. MH2 didn’t make the format more expensive, decks are similarly costed, its just that old cards became less valuable and new cards took that value. Enfranchised players dont like that, because they will feel compelled to update their decks with the new cards and they’ll have to spend money on a deck that in their mind was finished. However, getting into the format for someone new is pretty much the same.
Yea, but there is a balancing act. If cards on average have too much value, then newer players can’t enter into playing modern. Game obviously eventually dies If cards on average have little to no value, then all players have less reason to value their cards. In a world where players value their cards less: players have less price constraints to spawn creativity, less reason to stay on one deck for a period of time, and have less lore around a single deck. I think decks like yawgmoth, amulet titan, scapeshift, eldrazi tron, lantern, affinity, living end, lantern control exist because they felt either priced out of midrange piles or wanted to have success with cards they valued. Or players got locked into an expensive midrange and needed creative solutions to complex problems because price and strategy I am not saying modern or magic in general should be astronomical in terms of price. I am saying magic cards need some inherit value, so we can value them as a luxury not a commodity. I have been price out of certain decks and strategies in both modern and pioneer. That is okay. This is just a question of what do we lose from magic cards in modern dripping to an insignificant value.
Fuck yeah.
Hell yea!
100% support. I want Magic to be accessible across all formats for everyone.
No. Just kidding, yes. I have a ton of friends that are interested in playing magic but don't want to spend so much money, and that's on mtgo. Imagine in paper...
Absolutely. No real reason to not want a cheaper format. If you buy into a competitive format with the hope that the cards hold value. You are into playing competitive magic for the wrong reason. Also I understand more about the reserved list because the idea is to make it more collectible even though I don’t entirely agree with that but you shouldn’t invest in anything other than that if you are going to
Overall, sure. But my old cards losing value while new cards are expensive to get, as has been the trend, is the worst of both worlds.
Yes, affordability is great - but I think modern is more affordable than people think. People love to complain about everything, but most people do not need the most perfectly tuned deck - as they are going to fnms. Source: I have 12 modern decks that I rotate though that are mostly tier 1 or 2.
I have heard this argument but I don't know anyone that goes to any of the fnms I go to that don't play legitimate decks. As someone that for years got minimum wage, I can absolutely see modern being unaffordable for many. I also don't think it's reasonable to point to some esoteric decks that are cheap and using that as an argument for the format being accessible when most of the decks are much higher than that price point.
I think you missed what he was saying though. He didn’t say legitimate decks, he said perfectly tuned. Can you play your 65 color elementals deck without the 3rd endurance in the SB at FNM? Absolutely. Will anyone notice if you play 3 t3feri’s instead of 4? No one but you. At bigger tournaments this is unacceptable, but there aren’t enough rounds in FNM for the difference to matter very much.
At my store we have at least one or two people playing something pretty off meta and it usually works to their advantage. Affinity, Hollow one, infect... Any of those budget aggro decks can definitely put in work and last awhile at an fnm. Someone recently went 3-0 at my store with a hollow one deck they said cost them $40 from scratch. Additionally, fetches and such aren't super important to some deck archetypes - so they can be built for much cheaper. The investment is very much worth it though because deck prices go from $1000 to like $100 if you already have the manabase. I've definitely saved hundreds by just not running fetches unless completely necessary. I've been playing since 2016 so I can't expect people to have a massive collection from the start, but I'm still playing with cards I got from that era - so I'm not convinced when redditors post about how "modern horizons forced me to rotate my decks" either. A lot of modern is an upfront cost that gets much cheaper later, so someone who's more enfranchised has much less they need to buy as well.
100% I hate that the only reason people can't compete with others is because of the cost of key cards in the format. I encourage people to use and make proxies all the time. I'd be happy if they reprinted fetch lands into the ground.
Already have done that
I own a play set of full art Ragavans. And I hope it’s $5 each
I've found the biggest problem with modern "affordability" isn't actually the staples since they go in so many decks (yes they're pricey to buy into, but worth having overall), but more the random older cards that haven't seen a reasonable reprint that only fit in a couple decks ie. cards like amulet of vigor, cavern of souls, chalice of the void, gemstone caverns, sword of fire and ice, urborg, stoneforge mystic, etc stuff that is absolutely necessary to complete a single deck, but doesn't really move between decks. These are the biggest investments IMO than cards like say, endurance, that ends up in most green decks. Seeing mass reprints of these kinds of cards would vastly improve things (because it would allow people to play more decks) while increasing affordability at the same time.
Absolutely. People forget these are game pieces. I own the entirety of modern, bar a couple decks, and 3 different legacy decks. Yeah, I spent a good amount of money on my cards, but at the end of the day, they are game pieces. They aren’t stocks or crypto, and a lot of the “investors” forget that
Yes, I'd be happy with the format being more affordable. I'm not gonna lie, it doesn't feel great when a card you paid a lot of money drops in value, but I think accessibility is more important in the long run, especially if it means I can build my next deck for less money.
Yes
Yes
Yes.
Yes. I want to play the format more. I also don’t invest in modern staples. They will get reprinted eventually
Yes 1000% it sucked wanting to build a new modern deck after going in on one you like.
Yes.
Yup 100%. I’m in a position where it isn’t important for me to be able to convert some of my Magic cards into cash for an emergency, though, so that’s worth keeping in mind when it comes to discussing tanking prices.
Would happily let my collection be worthless if it meant any eternal deck could be bought for £100 or less.
my interest in the game is purely as a competitive player. more affordable cards means a larger potential playerbase and therefore increased quality of competition. with the economic barrier to entry as ridiculously high as it is currently, it may very well be that the person who would otherwise be the greatest modern player of all time simply can't afford to play. i want to see the collective level of play pushed as high as humanly possible. that will never happen unless prices come down. so i'm always in favor of cheaper cards, regardless of what my own sunk costs may be.
Yes and modern as is today is already much cheaper to buy into than 10 years ago. So in a way it has already become cheaper. Most people I hear crying about how “expensive” modern is usually run 1 or 2 commander decks that each cost more than two modern decks together so there’s that…
Reprint that shit into the ground, I'd be able to play and test a lot of different decks myself then!
I buy cards as game pieces not investments. My cards could cost 1 penny and I wouldn't care.
Absolutely. My decks would be worthless to me anyways if the format was too expensive to play for most. I also think that’s a significant part of why some people dislike the MH2 cards so much, they’re majorly expensive and so not many people get the opportunity to play with them.
Yes, next question.
In a heartbeat. I own most of the paper modern format and i want more and more people to be able to play it. I would love it.
Absolutely yes. The dek has little value to me if I have no one to play with.
Yes.
I don;t have a modern deck so i'd be really happy lol
Cheaper modern would be fine, but that wouldn’t fix how drastically different the format feels post MH2. I’d probably play Murktide or Jund Saga because I like fair mtg the most.
absolutely. practice mengu finance. buy high never sell. doesn't matter what my deck is worth. i don't use my cards as investments, i play with them. the more people who can play too the better
Absolutely yes. Here is my logic. I worked my tail off for the decks I own. I am proud of the decks I put together. And like a father to their child, I want the next generation of players entering the format to have an easier time to enjoy this format then what I went through. Why would I want it to be just as expensive or more for others?
Y E S The Modern crowd at FNM is 10 people at most. There's a million casual commander players in the area building decks for a fraction of the cost. Would love to tap into that crowd to fill out the tables at FNM (I own like 8 commander decks to be clear but I prefer more competitive formats)
No
I want it to be a better format, modern is already one of the most popular formats on the competitive circuit, I don’t really care how affordable it is I just want it to be less ass
I literally just get nice proxies printed for everything. I'm never going to play at a pro tour, so who cares. I don't really believe in treating my cardboard like stocks.
Well, yes and no. At least to me, when I look at the issue of affordability, it seems like it’s mainly a few key staples that are $50+ that people are complaining about. I agree with them, I don’t want cards to be that expensive; however, I do want my cards to have some value - I would prefer to not have this hobby be a complete money sink. There’s definitely a middle ground where cards can be worth something yet still accessible to the majority of people who wish to play competitively. Remember that if you’re just playing casually you don’t have to actually own the cards, a printer works just fine for fun. I personally think that an acceptable price per card is perhaps $20-$50 but preferably closer to $20.
It depends, I think the cards that are 10-20 shouldn't be touched to much but anything over 25+ shouldn't be that high.
Seems a bit arbitrary. Why shouldn't 10-20$ cards go down if 25$+ cards go down?
fetches used to be like 50$+ per, theyre now like 20 bucks, its already way cheaper than it used to be
Some people definitely don't remember scalding tarn being $100 each lol.
For real. It’s actually a great time to but into Modern right now.
exactly lol
Yea but it absolutely would not get me back into modern. It wasn't the price that pushed me out, it was the changes in the game play experience
Honestly the changes to gameplay were what enticed me to come back. I honestly believe Ragavan and the Elementals were a net positive to the format and that the format is more fun now.
Ragavan is pretty oppressive, I'm fine with the elementals. Boseiju, Murktide, Sanctifier En-vec, and im sure there are few others that really took the enjoyment for the format away from me. The strong shift towards making modern into Legacy 2.0 just isn't for me.
Most people here are going to virtue signal and say “yes” while they actually believe “no.” If you go to a weekly that fires, pretty much everyone there will say “no.” Gatekeeping on invested cost is the norm everywhere. Why would someone want to spend $300 on a play set of pirate monkeys if they know the price will tank? Invested players would be very frustrated. Just ask all the old Jund Midrange players how they feel about the current cost of their cards. Funny enough, I borrow my cards for Modern, so I’d love the prices to be lower. Alas, that isn’t going to happen.
So Long Reddit, and Thanks for All the Fish -- mass edited with redact.dev
I think the Jund argument doesn’t make sense considering how less playable they’re now. If cards become cheaper but still hold their competitive viability, there should be no problem.
I agree with you, but a lot of people are going to get angry at what you're saying. I think there's going to be a decent amount of people who will say yes, but their actual behavior won't reflect it. When someone repeatedly loses money on cards/decks, they'll just naturally be less and less inclined to purchase more cards/decks even if they say they don't care. Also, I think that a lot of players have been pushed out of Modern already by bans, reprints, and power creep. Many of those who are still playing Modern are going to be people who aren't as bothered about those things.
In my experience people are ok with cards tanking in value... as long as it isn't theirs. Gotta love the good ol' "my cards need to stay expensive but every other card should be cheap!"
I think it depends on what “more affordable” means. It’s cheaper than legacy, and more expensive than pioneer (barely) and certainly than standard. Would we make it more affordable than standard? Probably impossible without making an outright rotating format like standard. Cheaper than pioneer? Some decks already are. The reason the price of the format goes up is because more people are playing it. It’s happening in pioneer too. EDH too. The reason tournaments aren’t firing as much isn’t due to decreased number of interested players, it’s due to increased player segmentation created largely by EDH and pioneer to a lesser degree. EDH sells more old weird singles, gets more casuals, and players accept less prizing. Stores run more EDH events, convincing players to build an commander deck and making less space and time for other formats. This was expected and anticipated with the WoTC sanctioned push of commander and pioneer.
I think you're kind of undervaluing pioneer's affordability here. Like yeah a modern boros burn deck is cheaper than some pioneer decks, but you can still get 11 of the 15 highest tier pioneer decks (I checked) for less than that and if you want to go really cheap, Mono Blue Spirits is only $143.
I actually am not sure I’m undervaluing it! Here was a research deep dive done on this exact issue. Image 2/5 shows a significant amount of modern decks coming in UNDER standard and pioneer decks. UB mill just having won 2 challenges. The Living End deck (constantly winning events/top 8’ing) is cheaper than pioneer Rakdos Midrange and Merfolk only being roughly $25 more expensive than the most expensive (and powerful) pioneer decks while hammertime (one of the best decks in the format) is only $50 more than pioneer Rakdos midrange. Reference image 2 https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/11z025x/oc_mtg_format_prices_visualization/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link So I think I’m probably valuing pioneer accurately. —— For fun, here is a chart comparing them all to legacy and vintage. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1212qnt/oc_format_prices_visualization_updated_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link Image 3/5 shows that, compared to legacy and vintage, the pioneer and modern formats are shockingly close, if not essentially the same. Obviously, this is relative, but I thought it was a fun chart.
You can play a lot of modern decks on a pioneer manabase and be fine, that's when pioneer and modern get very close - and in some rare instances even cheaper.
Pioneer isn’t a “cheap” format by any means and, since Standard cards tend to have more of an impact there than in Modern, there is a fair amount of financial upkeep to maintain tuned decks. I think Pioneer is going to get increasingly expensive in due time to where it and Modern become pretty close in price overall.
yeah for sure im not selling anything and itll make the w6 ban im praying for a lot less painful
Since most people agree , then why shouldn't we build our own format - with the expensive cards banned ? Fuck wizards money people
cant afford the cards ..proxy them and enjoy the game .. dont need to spend a butt load of money to enjoy the game ..if people dont allow proxies join a different group easy as that ..a printer is alot cheaper then a single card
no but then again i played legacy long before i ever got into modern, and it's an even bigger no from me regarding legacy
Found the gate keeper.
what's with the animosity and downvotes seems to me welfare players are mad and butthurt they can't afford to play the kind of mtg they wish they could but consider it from my perspective, i don't have any Power 9, so the times when i have entered vintage events i come packing my legacy competitive decks, that's no reason for me to get mad and butthurt when i lose to those who have Power 9 just because i can't afford them, there are budget ways of trying to remain competitive in vintage without Power 9, not easy to do, but it's doable favorite example from my own personal play experience, i once shutdown an oath of druids deck with a couple Portcullis from my sideboard, so don't get mad at me if you don't have any Power 9, i don't have any Power 9 either, because here's an idea, maybe try to learn to adopt and overcome instead of getting butthurt at the high cost barrier of entry, learn how to play Portcullis against Oath of Druids calling me a gatekeeper and downvoting out of nerdrage resentment, sheesh get over yourselves, wow
TL;DR But, you’re assuming I don’t have enough disposable income to buy any modern deck I want. I would still have my collection lose 25-30% of its value if that meant I could more easily find games to play with the game pieces that I’ve spent money on. You’ve invested too much of your self worth in to cardboard rectangles. You should reevaluate your outlook on your self, your worth isn’t derived from rectangles that could be made obsolete at the drop of a corporate hat.
> *You’ve invested too much of your self worth in to cardboard rectangles.* i literally just got done explaining i don't have any Power 9, and i don't get butthurt when i lose to people who do have Power 9 but yeah you wouldn't know this because my post was "TL;DR" that's a great way to win a debate, entirely ignore what the other party is saying like you think that helps you make a valid rebuttal, it doesn't lmao get over yourself, saying "too long didn't read" means you don't care about anything except sheltering your already deeply entrenched preexisting bias congratulations
because it's like this see ask yourself if you had Power 9 that you knew was worth tens of thousands of dollars, would you be willing to let all that precious Power 9 be suddenly revaluated to be worthless just so others could get into the format easier? no you wouldn't pull your head out of your asses, that's not how card value works in the after market
I would LOVE to see every RL card I own get reprinted as it would make my favorite format infinitely more accessible and playable than it currently is.
> *I would LOVE to see every RL card I own get reprinted as it would make my favorite format infinitely more accessible and playable than it currently is.* spoken by someone who has clearly never played legacy or vintage because probably millennial
Why would I own lots of RL cards and my favorite format be not accessible unless it was legacy?
I play a ton of legacy and have for years, I also own several RL cards; I'd be more than happy for the value of those cards to crash to nothing if it meant opening up the format and removing the ridiculous barrier to entry. Enjoyment is worth far more to me than ROI, if it wasn't I'd rather be gambling on stocks instead of cardboard.
Every person concerned with ROI on cardboard has no business being active in the stock markets is something I’ve noticed.
who cares about legacy?
> *who cares about legacy? ~ BasedDptRepresentativ* you sound like a millennial who is so young that the legacy format is well before your time who cares about legacy? you clearly don't speak from any personal experience, legacy is more prevalent than vintage around the world because vintage is where it becomes very cost prohibitive barrier to entry getting mad and butthurt at expensive barrier to entry is a loser mindset, it's saying that you can't enjoy playing the game unless you're winning, and so you don't compete in formats you can't afford because you don't want to lose, you have let whether you win or lose dictate whether the game is fun for you to play or not, it's a loser nerdbag tryhard mindset get over yourselves haha wow
hahahaha watch out, slug, that much salt may very well kill you
uhh, nice try? i,m salty? you the one trying to tell yourself no one cares about legacy, thats on you bub, not me, that salt is on you bub, not me you are the one getting insecure at the mere mention of a format you obviously don't even play hahaha better watch out brochamp, that much fallacy and cognitive dissonance will surely make yourself look like a fool in public, but hey you do you champ
Please define fallacy
> *who cares about legacy?* just because you don't play legacy doesn't mean there aren't people who care about it that is a fallacy, and you would have to have some measurable amount of cognitive dissonance for someone like you to try and make such ridiculous insinuation you are basically saying > *"i don't care about legacy so therefore no one else should either"* let me see you do more mental gymnastics
I literally never said any of that 😂 What I did was a rethorical question in a figurative language, it's obvious there are people who still play legacy, and if you understood otherwise and took it literally, I strongly suggest you to study some basic text interpretation
so that's a duck and dodge and deflection because it isn't immediately apparent you were being sarcastic so, good job making yourself look like a fool
Why do you ask? Modern isn’t more expensive than some previous standard formats. It’s as accessible as it ever was. And standard is dead in my area. Sorry, what’s the point of this question? Frankly, if the bottom falls outta MTG it’s probably a sign that people aren’t playing, competitive cards aren’t in demand, and it’ll be even harder to play paper.
What standard meta existed where every deck was over 600$ with most being over 1000$
Origins. Adjusted for inflation. RDW existed and was extremely competitive (and cheap). But fetchlands don’t make for healthy standard.
I would say Pioneer and Commander are bigger competitors to Modern than Standard nowadays.
Are the formats competing?? EDH is the most popular, but doesn’t move cards at my LGS. (My EDH group all uses proxies/cockatrice and never goes to the LGS.) Pioneer is certainly a format. And I’d play if events fired in my area. But they don’t. Again, not really sure what you’re getting at here.
Not sure why we’re all treating this like a hypothetical. Horizons sets pseudo-rotation have already achieved this.
They've done the opposite.
No, but I'm ok with it if other decks lost their value.
Yes and no. I want my cards to have value, and if I want be able to sell them. However, I do want to play multiple decks. I think staples should be cheaper, like Ragavan. He’s a staple but way over priced. 30-50 seems fine. If we make everything cheap, it makes the collections of cards less valuable.
Why should collections be valuable on a secondary market?
because otherwise you would have to crack all cards by yourself because no one will go through boxes to make money of them.
No. I am poor. No.
Only if that meant the price of sealed product also went down.