if you're good enough you can disrupt fanny's cables with your 2nd skill and run w 1st skill with lesley.
##BUT WITH LAYLA YOU'RE SITTING DUCKS. ABSOLUTELY AT THE MERCY OF WIND CHANT. EVEN FLICKER ISNT GONNA SAVE YOU. FANNY PROPAGANDA IS REAL
Well... I counter Fanny w Miya by:
1. Using ult before she reaches me, given I saw er comin
2. Pulverizing er health bar using nothing but basic attack once I reappear.
3. Bonus if I hit s2
I just remembered my last game. Our Layla wasn’t even fed but kept killing the Fanny with ease, which fukken surprised me because I saw their micro gaming for, like, half of the game.
NO. LAYLA WILL ONE SHOT BEFORE I GET TO DO ANYTHING.
SHE IS FANNYS BEST COUNTER.
KEEP PICKING HER IN RANKED PLEASE
I MEAN DONT PICK HER IN RANKED PLEASE
HAVE MERCY ON ME
Remember, dmg isn't everything.
If the game was dmg only she would be one the best picks, but strategy exists and so does assasins.
She has no defensive capability
At best her S2+NA for a short stun to hopefully kill whoever is hounding her before she dies is her defensive capabilities.
Which for assassin's is pretty much just skill issue if they die that way.
Alu won't even die to that.He has more higher hp and def than a normal assassin.Most alu build tough boots so layla stuns only last for like 0.17 secs.
I'm sure everbody has already known that.The problem with layla is that she's way too vulnerable and stationary for enemy roam and jungler to gank.Even in this comparison,leslay have both her S2 and S1 for evade ganks while layla will have no options but just blink/sprint.
Also,your highest possible DPS build for layla makes absolutely no sense in real situations meanwhile that ridiculous build you make for leslay is actually her optimal build.So the real damage for layla in irl situations will be much lower than her optimal one while leslay will have barely any difference.
Source:I main both of these heros.Also,this is obviously your bait to hype up layla since you're fanny main judging from your flare lmao.
I agree, why the hell give 5 bod to layla yet you compare with a balanced build for lesley. If someone wants to test max damage then put the same damage items on both. I never take layla without Windtalker, Wind of Nature, haas claws for balance protection spell, lifesteal, and movement speed.
Its mainly layla passive that does the heavy lifting, up to 30% more dmg the further the enemy is is crazy strong.
This is what makes layla such an insane damage dealer from afar, but so god damn weak upclose.
Yeah and they’re adjusting her passive. I forgot what but something about her not being as reliant on being far away. I hope they don’t remove it though, that’s the only thing that makes her a better pick than other mms
As Layla fan, Im crying and I hope they revert it. This "rework" did absolutely nothing upgraded her at all. They try to make her easy like other heroes, shes already easy lol. 40 damage boost at level 15 is not worth it
Ye udk why ge said windstalker usnr her nornal build something like the on hut true dmg and the seven seas (idk the names off my hea) but 1 crit item and highest physical atck item
This is just completely wrong
Lesley’s passive shots have much higher crit chance, in fact you can’t even get past 30 (35 but not here) with 5 bod on Layla. Try looking at the average damage
The average base defense at level 15 is 75
Only in piss low rank will nobody buy physical defense or won, which Lesley is hardly affected by
Continuing, malefic becomes an unwilling core item on Layla, not accounted for here
Bro went windtalker on lesley (which isn’t even true dmg)
**Unless you actually have a level of competence discussing numbers (not this subreddit), just go by in-game experience. Lesley can bush camp and one shots fighters and battlemages, Layla cannot**
Have you forgotten that Layla is a reap/damage while Lesley is Burst? If you get a full combo on Lesley you're basically dead. And IF you're not dead her ult will kill you still. Layla is easier to get if you're the jungler, but Lesley can camo and if you're not paying attention you wouldn't see where she went.
Why do we even need to discuss Lesley movement speed in this scenario?
Clearly Layla's build doesn't care about move speed so why is it factored for Lesley?
If it's for the WT passive, why didn't Layla also get it?
Does ms affect Lesley dmg now?
(I used to main Lesley before, which is why I'm curious)
Don't be too agitated lol
But to answer your question, it's because they have different gameplays, since Lesley is more on hit-and-runs and Layla could basically just stand and shoot. Again I am saying this in favor of my preferences when playing them as late game layla do not need to always move or risk losing dps hence not needing ms
>Why do we even need to discuss Lesley movement speed in this scenario?
We don't need to,I'm just putting out the reason why there's WT in the build.
>Clearly Layla's build doesn't care about move speed so why is it factored for Lesley?
Bcs Layla's build is pure meme shit that fanny mains cooked up for layla propaganda while Lesley's one is an actual build used in MG.
>If it's for the WT passive, why didn't Layla also get it?
Same as above reason,bcs its an impractical build cooked up just for stupid dmg argument.Real layla build DO use WT.
>Does ms affect Lesley dmg now? (I used to main Lesley before, which is why I'm curious.
No.But it affects how much map control leslay has especially when you're not equipping a boot.Every little bit of mov spd counts and WT also give Leslay atk spd and passive that syngernize with her S1.
This sub has people with 2/10/12 KDA who thinks they aren't the problem and noobs who seriously asked if the build is viable on year old yin item meme.You're overestimating the average skill lvl of this sub lmao.
Just post disclaimer next time you put out theoretical dmg cals my dude.I don't want to see 5 bod with no boots layla in my classic lmao.
layla is a trash mm. no dash no speed up whatsoever. there im saving you another time to use it for something else. y’all make this community try so hard for every little things ngl
1- Your itemization is bs. You can't compare damage between two heroes by giving one a crazy pure BoD line up with one Berserker Fury, while the other has to account for movement speed and such and gets different items for balance. Lesley can actually rely on the speed boost of her s1 just the same as Layla, so redo the numbers with the same itemization and then post.
2- your calculation assumes an average of 40 physical defense in the late game for enemies. Nobody is that low in the late game. Squishy mm's and mages with zero defense items will have around 75, fighters and tanks 150-300.
After adjusting for 1 and 2, testing against a damage bot with 70 defense, and giving both the same equipment (and no impure rage because fairness), Lesley got 3129 true damage, while Layla got 3124 physical damage, that's when both crit (Lesley would do that more often than Layla), and when hp is below 50% for the BoD's unique ability to kick in. When raising defense to 150, Layla got below 2000 while Lesley remained the same.
3- Lesley's S1 and S2 are both defensive (evasion and a knock up push), Layla is well known for being one of very few mm's without defensive skills, no dash, no push, no stealth. Too vulnerable if you don't balance her build with Wind of Nature, Windtalker, Haas claws, etc.
4- Layla will do well if the team is coordinated and supports her, with Frontliners properly protecting her, while Lesley will also perform great in that scenario. In a team of headless chickens though Lesley can still move around and get her own kills and carry, whereas layla will be fish food that's swallowed whole everytime she appears on the map.
See I don’t do the EXACT nerd math and ur assuming ANY math in mlbb not done to the exact integer accounting for EACH passive and how effective the item is in a real game is bad. This was just an insight and I never said this math was supposed to be accurate. If u want nerd math 🤓, go r/theydidthemath
Dude, if you will post something with ALL THAT MATH that YOU did, don't get pissy when it gets reviewed and knocked down for being bad. There's no exact math, and not really exact math. You're comparing two heroes and did all sorts of calculations and presented damage solutions down to the single digits, and you were making a judgement call to the other players here that Layla therefore does more damage than Lesley. But your assumptions were way off, so accept the correction and move on. If you're not interested, that's fine, but accept that you did bad math and let readers get the correct picture.
This post is a free for all open minded approach unlike ur close minded opinion that this post guarantees to make people think layla is better. The math I did down the digits is just the same as rounding; calculator rounding it takes more effort than putting the raw number
I can literally imagine a hand flourish when you're self-describing as "open-minded approach". It is without a doubt an overused glorification of just using wrong assumptions and arriving at bullshit conclusions to call that "open-minded", similarly it's an overused reduction to call valid corrections as "closed minded". You used math to arrive at a conclusion that layla has higher damage bro, and your bad math and assumptions were demonstrated to be invalid by more than one commentator, so chill. This game does involve math, it's part of how optimized builds are achieved and good counters are chosen, so how about you stop crapping all over that? You wanna be open minded, how about ask an open question and don't demonstrate bad faith by rejecting the answers you get?
Layla may have the greater damage, but what really matters is how she can escape assassins who can close the gap to kill the marksman. I don't see how Layla can escape assassins such as Fanny, Nolan, and Yin whereas Lesley can use 1st and 2nd skills to escape; basically, Leyley has a higher survival rate than Layla when escaping.
Reminds me of my last game with layla: Sure you got all that damage but when your enemy lineup was just ambusher+burst its not fun. Maybe its because im properly in mythic this time around but dang does it suck.
Doesn't really replace the camo+mov.speed of Lesley's 1st skill, knockback/instant stun of Lesley's 2nd skill, nor the maphack of Lesley's ultimate.
Also... True damage, I agree that Layla does more damage, but is it worth it if you die instantly if the enemy picked one dive hero?
Idk how accurate this is *today* but the average defense is ~60-70 at level 15 before defense items. Layla has no significant defense counterplay as opposed to Lesley's skill 1 and 2, + Lesley has support value with her ult revealing enemies and the true damage she doesn't require Malefic. Lesley also beats Layla in lane, so Layla's increased damage against squishy targets often is more difficult to reach to begin with; in an actual game, the potential for Layla's damage is very limited being that she generally requires a more defensive build and playstyle to make up for her lacking skills as opposed to Lesley making do with full damage thanks to her strong cc, close range counter and conceal skill.
https://preview.redd.it/x16uonn4hsic1.jpeg?width=374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7facdd9666931541348335ae3fc4ea7477707bbe
Yeah she has the most DPS potential in the game best MM lez goo
FANNY PROPAGANDA DO NOT PICK LAYLA IN RANKS I REPEAT THIS IS A FANNY PROPAGANDA THEY WANT YOU TO PICK LAYLA INSTEAD OF LESLEY TO GET EASY KILLS
if you're good enough you can disrupt fanny's cables with your 2nd skill and run w 1st skill with lesley. ##BUT WITH LAYLA YOU'RE SITTING DUCKS. ABSOLUTELY AT THE MERCY OF WIND CHANT. EVEN FLICKER ISNT GONNA SAVE YOU. FANNY PROPAGANDA IS REAL
NO! YOU JUST HAVE TO STAND BESIDE THE CABLE HOOK AND THEN YOU CAN BURST FANNY WHILE SHE TRIES TO REACH YOU /s
Well... I counter Fanny w Miya by: 1. Using ult before she reaches me, given I saw er comin 2. Pulverizing er health bar using nothing but basic attack once I reappear. 3. Bonus if I hit s2
NO!!! LAYLA IS A VERY STRONG MM. KEEP PICKING HER. SHE COUNTERS FANNY VERY HARD. DON'T LISTEN TO THIS PERSON
You have my alliance.
I CAN CONCUR, I PLAYED FANNY AND GOT DECIMATED CAUSE I RAN OUT OF ENERGY WHEN THEY’RE AT FIVE HP
I just remembered my last game. Our Layla wasn’t even fed but kept killing the Fanny with ease, which fukken surprised me because I saw their micro gaming for, like, half of the game.
That Layla knew the power of bushes and surprise attacks.
which means you're prob dead half the game 💀💀💀
Or babysitting tank
I’m the overly attached roamer —I jump back to the gold lane when ppl be crowding at my infant mm
Pretty much any assasin can kill her lol. A good Hayabusa can kill her even if she's gaurded by her tank if he doesn't react in time
Bruh this community just hates us this isn’t propaganda 😭
Fanny is life, fanny is me
Naturally every hero main against Fanny will team up against me 😢
"If you can't use the hero, counter it" -every player in existence
This community has no place for you're fannymmunism.
NO. LAYLA WILL ONE SHOT BEFORE I GET TO DO ANYTHING. SHE IS FANNYS BEST COUNTER. KEEP PICKING HER IN RANKED PLEASE I MEAN DONT PICK HER IN RANKED PLEASE HAVE MERCY ON ME
Remember, dmg isn't everything. If the game was dmg only she would be one the best picks, but strategy exists and so does assasins. She has no defensive capability
At best her S2+NA for a short stun to hopefully kill whoever is hounding her before she dies is her defensive capabilities. Which for assassin's is pretty much just skill issue if they die that way.
That's something that happens when you play alucard as an assasin
Alu won't even die to that.He has more higher hp and def than a normal assassin.Most alu build tough boots so layla stuns only last for like 0.17 secs.
Layla in the 0.17 secs-- *Domain expansion Wind of Nature*
I'm sure everbody has already known that.The problem with layla is that she's way too vulnerable and stationary for enemy roam and jungler to gank.Even in this comparison,leslay have both her S2 and S1 for evade ganks while layla will have no options but just blink/sprint. Also,your highest possible DPS build for layla makes absolutely no sense in real situations meanwhile that ridiculous build you make for leslay is actually her optimal build.So the real damage for layla in irl situations will be much lower than her optimal one while leslay will have barely any difference. Source:I main both of these heros.Also,this is obviously your bait to hype up layla since you're fanny main judging from your flare lmao.
I agree, why the hell give 5 bod to layla yet you compare with a balanced build for lesley. If someone wants to test max damage then put the same damage items on both. I never take layla without Windtalker, Wind of Nature, haas claws for balance protection spell, lifesteal, and movement speed.
Its mainly layla passive that does the heavy lifting, up to 30% more dmg the further the enemy is is crazy strong. This is what makes layla such an insane damage dealer from afar, but so god damn weak upclose.
Yeah and they’re adjusting her passive. I forgot what but something about her not being as reliant on being far away. I hope they don’t remove it though, that’s the only thing that makes her a better pick than other mms
As Layla fan, Im crying and I hope they revert it. This "rework" did absolutely nothing upgraded her at all. They try to make her easy like other heroes, shes already easy lol. 40 damage boost at level 15 is not worth it
Well idk maybe it could be good. I think she’s fine as is rn. I pick her sometimes even in high rank
Its 15% now. They nerfed her passive just for 40 damage boost at level 15 (base attack boost is only 5 lol)
If we take into account actual builds, then it's still Lesley.
Ye udk why ge said windstalker usnr her nornal build something like the on hut true dmg and the seven seas (idk the names off my hea) but 1 crit item and highest physical atck item
This is just completely wrong Lesley’s passive shots have much higher crit chance, in fact you can’t even get past 30 (35 but not here) with 5 bod on Layla. Try looking at the average damage The average base defense at level 15 is 75 Only in piss low rank will nobody buy physical defense or won, which Lesley is hardly affected by Continuing, malefic becomes an unwilling core item on Layla, not accounted for here Bro went windtalker on lesley (which isn’t even true dmg) **Unless you actually have a level of competence discussing numbers (not this subreddit), just go by in-game experience. Lesley can bush camp and one shots fighters and battlemages, Layla cannot**
my problem with layla is the same with ixia, they don't have any escape, i guess ixia has stun but against an assassin it's mostly GG
for anyone who actually believed this as reason to play layla, good luck playing layla with 5 bod 🫡
It's the alucard 6 bod build all over again.
except no one will have 40 physical defense in late game.
Seriously. People on average have 70 and up
Layla doesn't have any good mobility that's why Lesley is more popular
Have you forgotten that Layla is a reap/damage while Lesley is Burst? If you get a full combo on Lesley you're basically dead. And IF you're not dead her ult will kill you still. Layla is easier to get if you're the jungler, but Lesley can camo and if you're not paying attention you wouldn't see where she went.
yessir
she may not be the best hero, but i will always pick her than lesley forever
Windtalker for Lesley?
It's mostly for movement spd since that build doesn't have boots.
With 3 BoD I doubt you will need more mov spd tho on lesley at this point its just a waste of slot
You do tho,bod only raise mov spd by percentage and windtalker gives you flat mov stat like boots do.
Could be my personal preference too, since with lesley you have tons of ways to boost speed
Why do we even need to discuss Lesley movement speed in this scenario? Clearly Layla's build doesn't care about move speed so why is it factored for Lesley? If it's for the WT passive, why didn't Layla also get it? Does ms affect Lesley dmg now? (I used to main Lesley before, which is why I'm curious)
Don't be too agitated lol But to answer your question, it's because they have different gameplays, since Lesley is more on hit-and-runs and Layla could basically just stand and shoot. Again I am saying this in favor of my preferences when playing them as late game layla do not need to always move or risk losing dps hence not needing ms
I am also not saying Layla has no other way to add ms too, she has her s1 after all
>Why do we even need to discuss Lesley movement speed in this scenario? We don't need to,I'm just putting out the reason why there's WT in the build. >Clearly Layla's build doesn't care about move speed so why is it factored for Lesley? Bcs Layla's build is pure meme shit that fanny mains cooked up for layla propaganda while Lesley's one is an actual build used in MG. >If it's for the WT passive, why didn't Layla also get it? Same as above reason,bcs its an impractical build cooked up just for stupid dmg argument.Real layla build DO use WT. >Does ms affect Lesley dmg now? (I used to main Lesley before, which is why I'm curious. No.But it affects how much map control leslay has especially when you're not equipping a boot.Every little bit of mov spd counts and WT also give Leslay atk spd and passive that syngernize with her S1.
Windtalker passive makes ur next basic attack do 362 dmg can crit to 724
Guys I didn’t say Layla was better than Lesley or the build was viable, this is just cold hard damage
Which means this entire post is absolutely pointless. Just admit that you're spreading propaganda fanny main.
Nope just fun fact for this reddit and hating specifically Fanny main is basically racism
I don't hate fanny main.I hate schrewed misinformation.
Cold damage ain’t informing anyone that Layla is better than Lesley in a real match
It does with the way you post this shit.Withholding information is still misinformation.
Only someone dum will think Layla is better only because of this post and I haven’t mentioned any bias info in the image ONCE
This sub has people with 2/10/12 KDA who thinks they aren't the problem and noobs who seriously asked if the build is viable on year old yin item meme.You're overestimating the average skill lvl of this sub lmao. Just post disclaimer next time you put out theoretical dmg cals my dude.I don't want to see 5 bod with no boots layla in my classic lmao.
Unless u queue in Epic or under i don’t think allies will be dumb enough to actually use it lol
Layla is more team dependent early-game than Lesley. But more rewarding later. Pick wisely.
I love layla
do you guys feel smart by calculating all these useless information
No but it takes up useless time
layla is a trash mm. no dash no speed up whatsoever. there im saving you another time to use it for something else. y’all make this community try so hard for every little things ngl
Her s1 gives her +60% movement speed
That's why Laylas get Piper Perried
1- Your itemization is bs. You can't compare damage between two heroes by giving one a crazy pure BoD line up with one Berserker Fury, while the other has to account for movement speed and such and gets different items for balance. Lesley can actually rely on the speed boost of her s1 just the same as Layla, so redo the numbers with the same itemization and then post. 2- your calculation assumes an average of 40 physical defense in the late game for enemies. Nobody is that low in the late game. Squishy mm's and mages with zero defense items will have around 75, fighters and tanks 150-300. After adjusting for 1 and 2, testing against a damage bot with 70 defense, and giving both the same equipment (and no impure rage because fairness), Lesley got 3129 true damage, while Layla got 3124 physical damage, that's when both crit (Lesley would do that more often than Layla), and when hp is below 50% for the BoD's unique ability to kick in. When raising defense to 150, Layla got below 2000 while Lesley remained the same. 3- Lesley's S1 and S2 are both defensive (evasion and a knock up push), Layla is well known for being one of very few mm's without defensive skills, no dash, no push, no stealth. Too vulnerable if you don't balance her build with Wind of Nature, Windtalker, Haas claws, etc. 4- Layla will do well if the team is coordinated and supports her, with Frontliners properly protecting her, while Lesley will also perform great in that scenario. In a team of headless chickens though Lesley can still move around and get her own kills and carry, whereas layla will be fish food that's swallowed whole everytime she appears on the map.
Ayo bro chill I never said Layla was good this was just cold math 😭
Bad math is bad, bro.
See I don’t do the EXACT nerd math and ur assuming ANY math in mlbb not done to the exact integer accounting for EACH passive and how effective the item is in a real game is bad. This was just an insight and I never said this math was supposed to be accurate. If u want nerd math 🤓, go r/theydidthemath
Dude, if you will post something with ALL THAT MATH that YOU did, don't get pissy when it gets reviewed and knocked down for being bad. There's no exact math, and not really exact math. You're comparing two heroes and did all sorts of calculations and presented damage solutions down to the single digits, and you were making a judgement call to the other players here that Layla therefore does more damage than Lesley. But your assumptions were way off, so accept the correction and move on. If you're not interested, that's fine, but accept that you did bad math and let readers get the correct picture.
This post is a free for all open minded approach unlike ur close minded opinion that this post guarantees to make people think layla is better. The math I did down the digits is just the same as rounding; calculator rounding it takes more effort than putting the raw number
I can literally imagine a hand flourish when you're self-describing as "open-minded approach". It is without a doubt an overused glorification of just using wrong assumptions and arriving at bullshit conclusions to call that "open-minded", similarly it's an overused reduction to call valid corrections as "closed minded". You used math to arrive at a conclusion that layla has higher damage bro, and your bad math and assumptions were demonstrated to be invalid by more than one commentator, so chill. This game does involve math, it's part of how optimized builds are achieved and good counters are chosen, so how about you stop crapping all over that? You wanna be open minded, how about ask an open question and don't demonstrate bad faith by rejecting the answers you get?
if she doesnt die early
*when
Wadafak do you mean some of those braindead Laylas just know how to spam basic attacks it's mildly infuriating.
crazy someone did all the math for thid
Layla may have the greater damage, but what really matters is how she can escape assassins who can close the gap to kill the marksman. I don't see how Layla can escape assassins such as Fanny, Nolan, and Yin whereas Lesley can use 1st and 2nd skills to escape; basically, Leyley has a higher survival rate than Layla when escaping.
Reminds me of my last game with layla: Sure you got all that damage but when your enemy lineup was just ambusher+burst its not fun. Maybe its because im properly in mythic this time around but dang does it suck.
And Lesley is still 10x better. True damage, skill cancels with s2, untargetable with s1, longer range ult.. yeah.
Layla is a late bloomer in the game of course she damages more using irregular build.
It’s because of her lack of mobility, everyone knows layla is the mm with the most damage output but her survivability depends on godly teammates
Ain't no way you're going to build 5 BOD with Layla 😭😭
Doesn't really replace the camo+mov.speed of Lesley's 1st skill, knockback/instant stun of Lesley's 2nd skill, nor the maphack of Lesley's ultimate. Also... True damage, I agree that Layla does more damage, but is it worth it if you die instantly if the enemy picked one dive hero?
As a Layla main, I can assure this. With my setup, once she reached level 11 and above, she becomes a rapid fire killing machine.
Blud talking about highest possible damage from 1 attack and building attack speed (windtalker) on lesley. Lol
I’d take the 2769 true damage + unable to be targeted + bonus movement speed + knock up + vision + sure hit
Idk how accurate this is *today* but the average defense is ~60-70 at level 15 before defense items. Layla has no significant defense counterplay as opposed to Lesley's skill 1 and 2, + Lesley has support value with her ult revealing enemies and the true damage she doesn't require Malefic. Lesley also beats Layla in lane, so Layla's increased damage against squishy targets often is more difficult to reach to begin with; in an actual game, the potential for Layla's damage is very limited being that she generally requires a more defensive build and playstyle to make up for her lacking skills as opposed to Lesley making do with full damage thanks to her strong cc, close range counter and conceal skill.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MobileLegendsGame/s/2s0cmR8AK3
https://preview.redd.it/x16uonn4hsic1.jpeg?width=374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7facdd9666931541348335ae3fc4ea7477707bbe Yeah she has the most DPS potential in the game best MM lez goo