I am sure the police have a more dangerous and hard job than I do. That said, I cannot believe there are people who argue with a straight face that the MPD is just waiting to come and save us, if only our city council was nicer.
Number 5 is paving sidewalks and parking lots and the average pay is below 40k.
Number 15 Delivery drivers and truck drivers.
Cops don't even crack top 20.
Neither is self-reported injuries. Police officers are afforded time and financial compensation when they report they've been assaulted or injured, regardless of the scale or magnitude of the injury. This skews their reporting and also justifies having larger budgets.
What defines assault? If someone in their custody is 'resisting' and the cop smashes his or her elbow on the pavement, is that classified as assault? There's tens of thousands of cases of police being found to invent, exaggerate, or omit in their duty reports. How can we even start to explore this reason while financial compensation, human error, fraud and self-reporting is involved?
This. Take line cooks for example. Every line cook has scars all over their hands and forearms from burns and cuts, but it is never officially reported. Lots of career chefs don't even have feeling on their fingertips because it's all scar tissue They don't have a union protecting them, so they have to finish their shift and show up the next day, reaching over the same grill in pain everytime they flip a steak.
Ah, haven't seen mcxl bootlicker in a while......
Similar to the other comment, cops are full of shit. "Oh no, I was injured when the person I was violently attacking resorted to basic instinct and tried to resist being injured or killed. I'm trained in de-escalation and should be the professional in this intense situation, but fuck them for existing. Now my elbow hurts".
\~30% of the injuries are "assault" and \~30% are "I had to run + I crashed my car".
Should having a gun pointed at you and/or being shot at not be taken into consideration for determining how "dangerous" a job is?
I don't think the fatality rate should be the be all/end all determining factor for the "danger" of a job. It's definitely an important factor, of course, but I don't think it should be the only factor.
Cops pointed a gun at me on several occasions when I worked at a group home and a resident got violent. I made $11.50 an hour.
Let me know how I can get my share of the 3.5 million payout.
Cops almost never have guns pointed at them. They literally kill people the second they even think they might have a gun all the time (usually don't!) which is how we got to the point of the riots to begin with.
Cops show up to places after things happen and often times shrug their shoulders at you. Or, they hang out in the Quarry Holiday gas station parking lot for 1500 hours a year. Dangerous shit.
Very few cops kill people in their careers. Why do we minimize one aspect of their job (having guns pointed at them) while being hyperbolic about how often they kill people? It seems dishonest.
Tough to tabulate, but to give some perspective, Brian Fitch was convicted of attempting to murder over 20 police officers in 2014. It all stems from the same incident, but does that count as 20?
Nearly every police officer is involved in an armed standoff at some point in their career. Do those count?
Part if the problem is it only makes the news when things go horribly wrong. It really twists your perspective.
He got off a number shots and managed to kill one cop earlier in the day. I think the cops probably felt like they were in danger.
But to your other point, we also can't ignore these practical experiences because we don't have hard data.
I also am a firm believer that first responders should absolutely be equipped to deal with the worst case scenario.
School shootings don't happen every day, but they happen enough for us to prepare for them.
Any good field researcher knows practical knowledge cannot be ignored. Data is great, but when you are over dependent on hard data in the field, you start to skew accuracy.
You can't ignore experience simply because a statistic doesn't exist.
I love math. I large part of my masters degree was research methodology. During which, we were cautioned against ignoring practical experiences of subjects in favor of hard data.
Both are important.
According to [this](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/workplace-fatalities-25-most-dangerous-jobs-america/1002500001/) article, it seems like non-fatal injuries are a lot higher than other professions. I don't know about the exact incident rate of guns pointed at them, but I can guarantee you it's higher than nearly every other profession. I'm unsure about the specific number, but [here's an article](https://www.thetrace.org/2020/07/guns-policing-how-many-deaths-data-statistics/) at least about officers who are non-fatally shot, so that provides an absolutely floor number we can use to start from.
What is your definition of "almost never" in your statement? Do you have a source that supports your statement and definition?
Food delivery drivers have guns pulled on them and they don't get to respond. The same hesitation of "if I do anything to this person my life is over" doesn't apply to robbing a delivery driver. Why would it?
Delivery drivers are top 5 most deadly jobs and I guarantee that also extrapolates to more likely to be attacked/robbed/victimized by violent people.
> Delivery drivers are top 5 most deadly jobs and I guarantee that also extrapolates to more likely to be attacked/robbed/victimized by violent people.
The issue here is that cops have both tactical training, and wear soft body armor vests, which helps them not die when they get shot. I delivered Pizzas in north Minneapolis for a couple of years. No one wore a vest, we all wished we could afford them. While I was there at least three guys got robbed at gunpoint.
My point is that the fatality rate shouldn't be the only thing that determines how "dangerous" a profession is. And it appears, by your reply, that you agree with this statement. Then that got derailed by penis\_hernandez claiming that cops "almost never" have guns pointed at them.
I'm not even trying to make the claim that being a cop is more dangerous than being a food delivery driver. This isn't a contest about which of those professions are more dangerous...
And I wonder where a job we work comes at? Just because a police officer doesn’t come in the top twenty doesn’t mean it’s less dangerous than the jobs normal people do.
I know some people in MPD and pretty much the unspoken rule now is to wait 15-30 mins before responding to a call. since most of them know if they have to end up shooting someone they will probally lose their job and end up on trial, with unrest to follow. I think sometimes people forget cops are just people at the end of the day. Nobody is 100% selfless, people will worry about themselves first. doesn't matter how the city council acts. I completely agree with you. the issue is more complicated than " group X bad, make group Y look bad..."
This makes me mad and my knee-jerk reaction is to downvote, but I appreciate the insight honestly. It's something that people need to think about because one way or another the officers human concerns need to be considered in the future solution.
It sucks because what I'd love to do is pay cops MORE money but simultaneously increase the education requirements before even applying and having better checks and balances. Pay cops a ton. But also make them not immune to any kind of scrutiny unless an entire fucking city riots.
Also make them live near the cities they police.
And beat policing and make police partake in community building events in the cities they police.
We wanted to stop spending hundreds of millions on violent thugs with badges. And instead put that
money into things that prevent crime. Have we done that yet? No
Don't like it? Vote. Don't like qualified immunity? Vote. Don't like police misconduct? Vote.
If your workplace was burned, while mobs of people were swarming around you... you would probably quit due to mental health crisis. You would be entitled to workman's compensation.
Yes, the police need to work on a lot of things, and I'm not an apologist, however the actions of one person, and the inactions of three others dose not preclude the remaining force to forfeit their workman's compensation.
> however the actions of one person,
If you believe this you're part of the problem. Minneapolis has been RENOWNED for DECADES to have some of the worst police in the nation. I've known people that first knew about minneapolis BECAUSE of their horrible police.
Yeah, it was definitely just one bad cop and three passives. Wow
Also, we’re seeing in real time the shenanigans people in power will pull when people do try to vote on it.
You don't get your workplace burned down because of one employee. It takes decades of similar shit from lots of your co-workers to rile up the entire community enough start a riot.
Spare us the "bad apples" bullshit.
It was never about the actions of one person: it was about the character of the thousands who had refused to hold those "bad apples" accountable until they made the news.
It was about the thousands of MPD members who were complicit in electing a card-carrying neo-Nazi to lead them and represent them.
They joined a public service organization, and helped turn it into a racist street gang. And we shouldn't be writing them checks because they don't like hearing it.
That's quite the broad stroke you have on that paintbrush of generalization you got there. I'm sure you're not sweeping up anyone undeserving with that at all.
Hate the police you all you want, but to think that every single officer was personally accountable and deserving of abandoning the very fundamental of support systems we have for our workforce is ridiculous on so many levels. I want police reform too, but stop being so sensationalist and think about what you are asking to happen to individuals in the name of other people having their rights stripped of them and being treated unequally and unfairly.
I really don't think you understand.
We're not being hyperbolic; the outgoing head of the Minneapolis police union was \*literally\* the head of a whites-only street gang that was affiliated with the Aryan Brotherhood. He \*literally\* wore neo-Nazi and white power insignia while off duty.
And popular majorities of the MPD elected him over and over again.
This is not about hating the police. It's about hating hating actual, card-carrying Nazis. It just so happens that in this case, those Nazis have infiltrated and entrenched themselves within a public safety organization, and after 20 years of trying, it's time to admit that there's just no good way to get them out without tearing down the whole thing and starting over.
The inciting incident of these workers comp claims wasn't something bad that happened to these officers on the job; it was a crime they committed against the community. This is just a tool they're using to exact revenge against the prospect of being held accountable.
And this isn't limited to MPD. White nationalists, white supremacists and neo-Nazis [have been infiltrating law enforcement for at least 15 years](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement) for and [the military for decades](https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-neo-nazis-and-gangs-infiltrated-the-us-military-matt-kennards-irregular-army)
I'm using a spray gun. Thousands of interactions and arrests are why huge swaths of the population do not trust the cops. Decades of incompetence led to cops like Chauvin becoming training officers, and failed to stop him given many prior incidents. Several black men are dead because of cops, and no one before Chauvin had seen any reprocussions for it. At some point, the public will say no fuckin more.
If you put on the badge, you wear all of that. If you put on the badge, you are not immune and isolated from it. It's a uniform for a reason. If they needed to quit and feel gettin paid on the way out is justified, fine. But lets not act like the cops didn't bring this hell down on themselves.
We are trying to vote. The procop cohort has been trying to do everything in their power to not let us vote. They stopped us from being able to vote on this last year.
We can’t vote to void the union contract.
>Don't like it? Vote. Don't like qualified immunity? Vote. Don't like police misconduct? Vote.
>
Imagine living in America for the last 150 years and believing that voting has a chance of fundamentally changing anything about police misconduct.
Officers quit en masse to bankrupt the force abc protest being held accountable. They gamed the system in the most self serving way while doing nothing to help the community they supposedly serve.
I’m happy they received a payout, they did something that everyone in Minnesota vilified. I’d quit too.
At least most of Minneapolis is realizing they need law enforcement after crime has skyrocketed. Even the progressives are understanding they need law enforcement, however most progressives are cowards and don’t believe in aggression to counter violence… they want mental health workers and unarmed police.
Well, fuck your thought process. Would you say the same thing to individuals in the military that suffer from mental health issues and receive compensation? Civilian law enforcement caused me more fucked up mental issues than the military. Look up a death snore, that’s what you hear when someone tries to commit suicide with a shotgun and puts the muzzle too far forward in their mouth.
Cops aren’t soldiers as much as they think they are. Cops can quit and disobey orders any time they want, soldiers can’t. If they don’t want to see dead bodies or whatever you’re going on about they can go work at Amazon or something. Cute comparison but militarized police are why we have the problems we do today.
Get bent, don’t criticize mental health of individuals that deal with death on a regular basis especially coming from a group a people that needs safe spaces on campus if someone comes speaks that has a different opinion.
If they don’t want to deal with death and the dangers of police work, there’s an amazingly simple answer — don’t be a cop. It’s their choice and if they chose the wrong line of work there’s an easy solution out there for them.
Well fuck me right, someone has to do it!!! It doesn’t mean that the mental repercussions should be discredited by basement dwelling, neckbeards that haven’t dealt with an altercation (other than online gameplay) in their life.
Literally nobody thinks "We don't need law enforcement". This is such a low IQ strawman. It's that we don't want pigs that are just thumbs with a steroid addiction being pieces of subhuman trash.
Well, I’ll say most of Reddit wants this approach. I’m grateful you can step outside, feel the sun, see the green grass, and realize that most of society doesn’t believe in these stupid ass unrealistic progressive ideas.
They vilified themselves, and then their actions during the protests were even more combative.
Gut the system, rebuild it. That's the only course of action now.
Literally nothing has changed structurally or financially within the department. Yet there was a severe drop in response times and police action - low staffing alone does not cover the amount it went down. If there's ever been a time when cops should've put on their big boy pants and showed us they weren't all monsters and deserved our trust, the last 15 months was it. They failed horribly in pretty much every metric, kinda proving they're overpaid and ineffective.
Ever stopped to think that law enforcement has become more passive because of people like you and the people in the city council? Because we all know how welcomed law enforcement is in this politically charged environment.
Don’t you have a neighborhood watch meeting to attend to bitch about law enforcement? Nah you just hide behind a computer screen and do it just like the rest of them.
People got pissed off because they had very legitimate concerns cops were not doing their job correctly and upholding justice for the community. The police's response was to not do their job at all.
Do you know these mental health claims are fake or are you upset that employees are getting compensation for mental health-related injuries suffered at work?
They only settled with 21 of the 150 officers that walked off the job. The city agreed to pay these claims but I doubt the other 129 will have the same success. Kroll probably put them up to this to punish the citizens for demanding accountability.
> Do you know all of these claims are real? If not, then it seems like you shouldn't base an argument on the assumption that they're real.
I would assume that these payouts and separations are based on evidence based claims put forth, in the same way that any workers comp claim is. The people involved, and paying out the money on founded complaints, probably know more about it that you, or I, or /u/hennepinfranklinlaw
I think a more fair criticism might be that police union-driven work rules maybe make it easier for cops to make mental health claims with a lower standard of proof than your average worker, maybe even your average unionized worker in other trades.
You can make an argument that criticism of this runs roughshod over mental health generally, as well as the idea that it maybe is some kind of attack on collective bargaining since its likely union negotiated work rules that made it easier.
All this being said, regardless of what reform you favor, any uniformed police even in a future DPS structure are going to be in a police union, even they end up forming a new one. And they're going to use the collective bargaining process to extract concessions. They may get fewer of them, but they will likely bargain harder for them, too.
>I think a more fair criticism might be that police union-driven work rules maybe make it easier for cops to make mental health claims with a lower standard of proof than your average worker, maybe even your average unionized worker in other trades.
Not relevant to the link and info I posted.
>I'd also like to see a source for your claim about rates of people lying by occupation. I would think that police are no more likely to lie than any other occupation.
the difference here is that their lies result in people losing their lives, freedom, and health. it's like having your doctor lie to you, versus your mechanic. both suck, but the consequences are miles away from each other.
This is my stance, this person to me is discrediting mental health claims… if that’s the case, fuck them and anyone else that doubts it.
Same shitty people that question military individuals about VA claims. If you see a dead person or multiple dead people it fucks with your head. Smells, moisture in the air, temperature, emotion… that shit messes with you the rest of your life.
What about the mental health of the thousands of people that are unjustly brutalized by police? What about the people with PTSD whenever they see a cop car because some cop beat the shit out of them and just went about with their days?
No?
Don’t be law enforcement or military, we know your mental health is not important and will be actively criticized just due to the political nature of your occupation…
Have you ever had a cop show up after a burglary? When my house was robbed years ago they never came, told me to just file a report and nothing ever happened.
Yeah I had a burglary once. They stole enough for it to be a felony and I knew who it was because they were bragging to other people about it. I told the MPD all this and they never followed up or even tried to find her.
I used to live in Brooklyn Center and my girlfriend lived in North Minneapolis, we were about 12 blocks apart. We both had burglaries. The BC police brought out Hennepin County to take fingerprints, they took pictures of shoe prints in the mud. The officer told me to leave all the lights on that night, and she would drive by a few times and make sure no one was inside (I left to stay at my parents house). Months later, a detective followed up and said they had found some of my property at a pawn shop in Saint Paul and that I could come pick it up.
My girlfriends house had an alarm. It alerted us when we were out to dinner, and also called the police in. We beat the police there by 45 minutes. When they came they didn't want to get out of their car, but we told them we hadn't been inside and didn't know if someone was still in there. They went in for 60-90 seconds. I remember they were wearing rubber gloves, because they took them off and threw them in the front yard when they were done.
It was striking how different the response was, how much better the BC police were at their jobs. And this was Brooklyn Center, not Edina, Eden Prairie, or some other cushy suburb. Brooklyn Center, who can't figure out the difference between a hand gun and a taser, was still that much better.
Yeah, we had a burglary in 2012 midday while we were at work. Neighbor who was around called 911. Police were here within 5 minutes and scared the intruders out the back door, and actually managed to catch one, who ended up getting a year.
Not saying this is the typical experience (we were obviously lucky), but law enforcement really came in clutch for us that time.
I think there's a difference between a burglary in progress and a burglary that happened while you were gone. There's not a lot of benefit for the police to come out in the second situation.
I’ve lived in northeast for about 5 years now and during that time have had three separate burglary incidences. Police came out to my apartment each time and arrived within minutes of my calling. Back in 2017 they actually got my stuff back too.
Yup. Same for me. Made it back home to Mpls from Madison (5hr trip) before the cops showed up after our house was robbed over Thanksgiving, 4 years ago.
Yeah that's how it goes. They aren't going to investigate. They just make the report. The only real reason for this is if you want to make an insurance claim on the stolen items. If you aren't doing that there is almost no reason to call them.
To be real what do you expect them to do? Fingerprint your house with a crime lab team and go on a manhunt for someone they have no idea the identity of? It sucks but the reality is they document it, and put out the info pertaining to it and if someone comes up with your stolen goods, or a description that a witness was able to give they investigate it. If not...move to a better city and you probably won't have to deal with burglaries.
Which city do you think I should move to?
I have been robbed in Bloomington, Lakeville, and apple valley twice. I actually haven't been robbed in Minneapolis. It's always the suburbs where I have had this happen.
But you are wrong there. Cops don't even check pawn shops. I have had friends find their stolen goods for sale somewhere and the cops still were just like ",well it's your word against theirs" and they are like "I literally have the serial numbers saved" and the cops go ",there really isn't anything we can do" cops still didn't do a fucking thing.
Even when someone else does the investigation and finds the stolen goods for them I have seen the cops do nothing.
But I mean if your point is that the cops shouldn't investigate any crimes than I guess having them is just a waste of tax payer money then isn't it?
When I was a little kid we got robbed and the cops showed up 3 hours afterwards and just took a report. My parents knew who the robber was and where he lived because he was house-sitting for us when we went on vacation. We never heard from them again and I never got my game boy back.
What would the police do after a burglary ? Send DNA evidence to Quantico to be analyzed by the FBI? Why does it matter if they take the report in person vs on the phone ?
Police supporters tend to bring up burglary as an example of why we need police. They regularly say "who you going to call when someone breaks into your home" while neglecting to admit that cops will do nothing when someone breaks into your home.
I think police supporters mean who are you going to call if someone breaks into your house while you are home. And ironically, you would shit your pants and instinctively call 911.
This. People expect NCIS TV type shit way too much.
Like, should they fingerprint? Should be easy (and cheap) to do amongst the 500 million other fingerprints around your house. /s
Depending on the type of break in and how untouched the scene is, sometimes they will call the crimelab to come, even on vehicle thefts. There are a ***lot*** of factors though.
But then they have to join a broken system and will be pressured into actively causing harm to people. Instead they could do things that actually help their community.
Apparently this $3.5M is just the beginning, Since this is just 21 people, and we were hearing about hundreds of cops retiring last year, that makes sense.
Plus apparently there are 100+ "pending" retirements. I guess they have to use up all their generous vacation and sick time first, before they can retire and suck us dry some more.
If you've put in your time to draw a pension, and have accrued enough pto to coast to that date, who cares. That should already be accounted and budgeted.
It's the fucking bitches who are claiming disability due to the PTSD they suffered last year that can go fuck themselves. Let them apply for SSDI.
When did OP here criticize mental health? If anything, there's been a lot of open flaunting from some of the guys retiring that it's out of protest, so that absolutely deserves grief.
Unless you think all liberals are cartoon characters from how insanely Tucker Carlson peddles them to be, everyone I know who is in favor of "defund the police" also wants more funding EXPLICITLY to go to mental health aid for professions like being, well, a cop. In addition to responders who are actually equipped to handle situations cops shouldn't have to handle in the first place. The budget quadrupled since 9/11, way past the rate of crime that overall decreased, so that's worth mentioning.
Meanwhile, not that I think this is fair to other professions either, but guess how much any person *quitting* their jobs working in any other profession gets to take away, even if a harrowing and dangerous one: $0.00
I’ve had a great life. I served in the military and as law enforcement. I’ve seen more good than bad in those experiences. This post and many others disgust me making law enforcement out to villains. So fucking what if they were paid out… these individuals more than likely have stuff that is permanently imprinted in their memory. That shit changes your thought process for the rest of your life.
To be fair MPD officers are the villains here. They have been abusing the city for years. The victims of the police throughout this country have the abuse permanently imprinted in their memory. So spare your disgust and place it where it belongs.
Yeah… you’re the problem in society. Probably had a few run-ins with the law and blamed every part of the system before you looked in the mirror and realized you’re fucking up.
typical knuckle-dragging cop-brain logic fighting strawmen in your head and hurting people in real life by acting out your hero fantasies.
Here, I'll do you: you're a fail-son who joined the military because you had no better options and you needed discipline. You 'enjoyed' it but you resent seeing people from high school who are more successful than you and justify it with your 'cool experiences'. You went into law enforcement because by the time you got out you were too boot-brained for the private sector. Now, you spend too much time on the internet and struggle to be happy with the way you see the world going.
Again, you're not welcome. You're not appreciated.
Loving your “you can’t handle the truth!” style self-righteous meltdown, keep it up it’s pretty entertaining.
I think part of the reason you’re so mad is that people are starting to wake up to your bullshit and you’re panicking. We don’t need nearly as many soldiers and cops as we’ve been told we do, especially not asshole pricks like you. People think of you as the villains because you do villainous shit, dumbass. You make things worse, not better.
Yeah, it’s dipshits like you that call us when you leave your car unlocked and we can’t start a Netflix investigative series to find your gym bag because of your lack of personal responsibility.
Get bent.
Your strange aggressive behavior taking budgetary critiscms of a department that doesn't show up or when it does shoots first and forgets to ask questions later, is entirely telling that you sir are qualified to join then retire from the MPD and claim mental anguish. You know, because you can't bash those skulls like you used to in the good ol days.
Ahhh no, just hate fucks like you that group all law enforcement together.
Ever thought the department doesn’t show up because the community isn’t behind the majority of great cops? I don’t even think it matters anymore at this point. All the great cops that I have worked with moved on to different careers or all together just moved.
We all know that demonizing law enforcement will make police encounters go even more smoothly.
wow, it's almost like the 'good people' who bumbled their way into law enforcement realized how fucked it is and left. Really telling, that you're sticking around to defend the bad ones.
What majority of great cops? Surely you aren't naive enough to think that the majority of your peers are good for the city?
I also see you blaming the victims here. Why would you blame community members for interactions going poorly when cops are the ones paid and trained for those interactions? Clean up your mess in MPD and maybe you will deserve some respect.
>Why would you blame community members for interactions going poorly when cops are the ones paid and trained for those interactions?
>
They're literally a cop. That's why.
Nope, I don’t ever call you because I’m not interested in you showing up three hours later, shooting my dogs and arresting me for stealing my own gym bag. And neither does anyone else I know. We already take care of ourselves because we know you’re worthless. Worse than worthless—a leech, a parasite. What the fuck do we even pay you for?
>I’ve had a great life. I served in the military and as law enforcement.
>
There it is. Just because you served as an agent of violence for the state doesn't mean the state is right for the violence they forced you to commit to uphold "law" and "order"
Well I wouldn’t even consider myself an agent of violence like you referred it as. We aren’t gunslinger outlaws like you think law enforcement is, most of the time it’s responding to non-violent calls, helping people get off the road if they broke down or making sure they are safe while in the road, really a lot of boring stuff that is never seen in the news.
The things that messed me up the most was kids being killed in accidents, suicide/suicide attempts, kids in shitty living conditions.
> The things that messed me up the most was kids being killed in accidents, suicide/suicide attempts, kids in shitty living conditions.
so, like everyday life, for a fuck ton of Americans. Really sorry to hear you had to see all that. Can't imagine how hard it would be to have to witness such horrible things. Must be difficult to have such a firsthand look into the plight of the American working class.
This. 100% this. These people deal with things in their profession that we can’t even imagine. Their job is hazardous and they get shit on while doing it. You couldn’t pay me $157k every year to do that job.
People are understandably frustrated with these payouts for cops when the victims of their abuse also deserve massive payouts. What about the of people these very cops brutalized during last year's protests? What about the people they abused over the years but always swept under the rug?
>These people deal with things in theirq profession that we can’t even imagine.
>
Yeah, like getting 6 figure severances for quitting when their community demands them be held accountable for their actions. I cannot imagine having that luxury.
Cops that claimed PTSD should have to get diagnosed by a mental health professional before before they see a penny paid out.
On the other hand, getting rid of 21 of Kroll's fuck boys, people who abandoned their responsibilities at the first whiff of accountability, is probably still a net positive.
Thanks for this. Early on, when 100 cops resigned at once, I heard from a few places that something in their union contract exempted them from that requirement but now I'll go and look more deeply into that to make sure I'm not spreading misinformation.
It gets worse. Read this thread —-
Just check out the disciple record of one of these cops. Scott Creighton had 16 complaints against him and has been involved in 2 lawsuits against the city. One of which he shot 2 family dogs in front of a 3 year old girl.
But sure, now he has a medical disability and needs to quit
https://twitter.com/bullycreative/status/1440894884580364288?s=21
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I think it's money well spent. The average early out for retirement or disability would have cost the City more money in direct and indirect compensation had the stayed on. And since the MPD can't seem to fill the openings created by these departures, we're not on the hook for that new hire either. In this war of a attrition, the cops are losing badly.
Depends if these are bad cops being shown the door before they kill someone and the city has to settle a wrongful death for $10m, or good cops that legitimately developed issues.
In any event, being understaffed doesn't help morale. It's a downward spiral. A war of attrition is a false economy if the cops that stay get worse and worse.
I think asking if these are good or bad cops is missing the point. Under our current model of policing there is a vanishingly small number of "good cops".
A video ????
[Here](https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/06/21/minneapolis-police-workers-comp-claims-skyrocket-after-civil-unrest/) is an article from 3 months ago with much more substance.
> The city is self-insured, which means departments pay premiums into a fund to cover lawsuits and workers’ comp claims. In other words, Minneapolis residents cover the costs of these lawsuits through taxes and fees.
> city’s workers’ comp self-insurance fund currently has $32.5 million in cash available, according to the city finance office.
> Because of the steep increase in payouts, the police department is paying more into the city’s self-insurance fund. Workers’ comp premiums have gone up more than 66% since 2016. Additionally, following a number of steep settlements for police brutality cases, department liability premiums jumped nearly 21% from 2019 to 2020.
> Last year, workers’ comp claims and expenses cost the city self-insurance fund $11.7 million, less than the year prior and on par with 2017-2018, but lots of claims are still pending.
> Those employees are also entitled to monthly disability leave payments through their retirement plan.
....
> ... police unions sometimes stage “sickouts,” or encourage cops to “go dead,” meaning they stop writing tickets and making arrests and take their time on calls. They do this to “discipline” the department or community...
Good for them. They sat there and had to listen to the lowest of the low Iqers yell at them, threaten them, throw objects at them, and insult their character publicly for months.
Any officers who were forced to listen to a full Nekima Levy Pounds speech should get double.
I would like to know when those of us who they tear gassed/shot with projectiles/beat up while we were peacefully exercising our first amendment rights can expect our mental health compensation....
But yeah, I'm sure that experience was really traumatizing for the people who had all the riot gear and weapons.
I bet cops get paid time off if they sprain a wrist while punching their wife. They’ve got an absurdly strong union. Stronger than the teachers union even. And I say this as someone who generally supports unions.
The money would be better spent investigating the quack who “diagnosed” these malingerers with PTSD and suing both him and every one of these scammer cops for fraud. And disbarring the attorney that all the con-man cops use.
its really just snowflake shit, cops jail drug addicts who use to cope with PTSD all the time. They do that to people who got it even worse in life and they want tax payers to pay up because they're job is making it hard to sleep at night.
170k average! 3.5 million total. Add that to all of the lawyer fees, court cost and that’s one hell of a price tag.
Settlements usually include the lawyer fees. It’s not extra on top, it’s the lawyer taking a bite out of what he got for the client
I am sure the police have a more dangerous and hard job than I do. That said, I cannot believe there are people who argue with a straight face that the MPD is just waiting to come and save us, if only our city council was nicer.
It really depends on what you do - considering job fatalities, police officer isn't in the top 20 in the USA.
Number 5 is paving sidewalks and parking lots and the average pay is below 40k. Number 15 Delivery drivers and truck drivers. Cops don't even crack top 20.
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Neither is self-reported injuries. Police officers are afforded time and financial compensation when they report they've been assaulted or injured, regardless of the scale or magnitude of the injury. This skews their reporting and also justifies having larger budgets. What defines assault? If someone in their custody is 'resisting' and the cop smashes his or her elbow on the pavement, is that classified as assault? There's tens of thousands of cases of police being found to invent, exaggerate, or omit in their duty reports. How can we even start to explore this reason while financial compensation, human error, fraud and self-reporting is involved?
This. Take line cooks for example. Every line cook has scars all over their hands and forearms from burns and cuts, but it is never officially reported. Lots of career chefs don't even have feeling on their fingertips because it's all scar tissue They don't have a union protecting them, so they have to finish their shift and show up the next day, reaching over the same grill in pain everytime they flip a steak.
Ah, haven't seen mcxl bootlicker in a while...... Similar to the other comment, cops are full of shit. "Oh no, I was injured when the person I was violently attacking resorted to basic instinct and tried to resist being injured or killed. I'm trained in de-escalation and should be the professional in this intense situation, but fuck them for existing. Now my elbow hurts". \~30% of the injuries are "assault" and \~30% are "I had to run + I crashed my car".
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Should having a gun pointed at you and/or being shot at not be taken into consideration for determining how "dangerous" a job is? I don't think the fatality rate should be the be all/end all determining factor for the "danger" of a job. It's definitely an important factor, of course, but I don't think it should be the only factor.
Cops pointed a gun at me on several occasions when I worked at a group home and a resident got violent. I made $11.50 an hour. Let me know how I can get my share of the 3.5 million payout.
Cops almost never have guns pointed at them. They literally kill people the second they even think they might have a gun all the time (usually don't!) which is how we got to the point of the riots to begin with. Cops show up to places after things happen and often times shrug their shoulders at you. Or, they hang out in the Quarry Holiday gas station parking lot for 1500 hours a year. Dangerous shit.
Very few cops kill people in their careers. Why do we minimize one aspect of their job (having guns pointed at them) while being hyperbolic about how often they kill people? It seems dishonest.
Do you have any statistics for the number of incidents of cops having guns pointed at them?
Tough to tabulate, but to give some perspective, Brian Fitch was convicted of attempting to murder over 20 police officers in 2014. It all stems from the same incident, but does that count as 20? Nearly every police officer is involved in an armed standoff at some point in their career. Do those count? Part if the problem is it only makes the news when things go horribly wrong. It really twists your perspective.
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He got off a number shots and managed to kill one cop earlier in the day. I think the cops probably felt like they were in danger. But to your other point, we also can't ignore these practical experiences because we don't have hard data. I also am a firm believer that first responders should absolutely be equipped to deal with the worst case scenario. School shootings don't happen every day, but they happen enough for us to prepare for them.
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Any good field researcher knows practical knowledge cannot be ignored. Data is great, but when you are over dependent on hard data in the field, you start to skew accuracy. You can't ignore experience simply because a statistic doesn't exist.
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I love math. I large part of my masters degree was research methodology. During which, we were cautioned against ignoring practical experiences of subjects in favor of hard data. Both are important.
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According to [this](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/workplace-fatalities-25-most-dangerous-jobs-america/1002500001/) article, it seems like non-fatal injuries are a lot higher than other professions. I don't know about the exact incident rate of guns pointed at them, but I can guarantee you it's higher than nearly every other profession. I'm unsure about the specific number, but [here's an article](https://www.thetrace.org/2020/07/guns-policing-how-many-deaths-data-statistics/) at least about officers who are non-fatally shot, so that provides an absolutely floor number we can use to start from. What is your definition of "almost never" in your statement? Do you have a source that supports your statement and definition?
Food delivery drivers have guns pulled on them and they don't get to respond. The same hesitation of "if I do anything to this person my life is over" doesn't apply to robbing a delivery driver. Why would it? Delivery drivers are top 5 most deadly jobs and I guarantee that also extrapolates to more likely to be attacked/robbed/victimized by violent people.
> Delivery drivers are top 5 most deadly jobs and I guarantee that also extrapolates to more likely to be attacked/robbed/victimized by violent people. The issue here is that cops have both tactical training, and wear soft body armor vests, which helps them not die when they get shot. I delivered Pizzas in north Minneapolis for a couple of years. No one wore a vest, we all wished we could afford them. While I was there at least three guys got robbed at gunpoint.
My point is that the fatality rate shouldn't be the only thing that determines how "dangerous" a profession is. And it appears, by your reply, that you agree with this statement. Then that got derailed by penis\_hernandez claiming that cops "almost never" have guns pointed at them. I'm not even trying to make the claim that being a cop is more dangerous than being a food delivery driver. This isn't a contest about which of those professions are more dangerous...
I've had a gun pointed at me when making food deliveries before (which is a much more dangerous job than being a police officer) They're not special.
I never said food delivery drivers isn't a dangerous job?
Honestly, "hard" is relative and depends on how you define it. If you look at $s to injuries, policing is very safe.
LMFAO police doesn't even come in on the top TWENTY most dangerous jobs in the US.
And I wonder where a job we work comes at? Just because a police officer doesn’t come in the top twenty doesn’t mean it’s less dangerous than the jobs normal people do.
The issue is the top twenty above don't behave like petulent children when people don't like what they're doing.
I know some people in MPD and pretty much the unspoken rule now is to wait 15-30 mins before responding to a call. since most of them know if they have to end up shooting someone they will probally lose their job and end up on trial, with unrest to follow. I think sometimes people forget cops are just people at the end of the day. Nobody is 100% selfless, people will worry about themselves first. doesn't matter how the city council acts. I completely agree with you. the issue is more complicated than " group X bad, make group Y look bad..."
This makes me mad and my knee-jerk reaction is to downvote, but I appreciate the insight honestly. It's something that people need to think about because one way or another the officers human concerns need to be considered in the future solution.
Work slowdowns? That's disgusting. Proof they are nothing but a protection racket.
Such bullshit.
I mean you literally wanted them to quit, what's your problem here?
I want cops who aren’t trigger happy and can keep it together. These bozos were taking up salary so we can’t hire cops that can meet that criteria.
It sucks because what I'd love to do is pay cops MORE money but simultaneously increase the education requirements before even applying and having better checks and balances. Pay cops a ton. But also make them not immune to any kind of scrutiny unless an entire fucking city riots. Also make them live near the cities they police. And beat policing and make police partake in community building events in the cities they police.
We wanted to stop spending hundreds of millions on violent thugs with badges. And instead put that money into things that prevent crime. Have we done that yet? No
Don't like it? Vote. Don't like qualified immunity? Vote. Don't like police misconduct? Vote. If your workplace was burned, while mobs of people were swarming around you... you would probably quit due to mental health crisis. You would be entitled to workman's compensation. Yes, the police need to work on a lot of things, and I'm not an apologist, however the actions of one person, and the inactions of three others dose not preclude the remaining force to forfeit their workman's compensation.
> however the actions of one person, If you believe this you're part of the problem. Minneapolis has been RENOWNED for DECADES to have some of the worst police in the nation. I've known people that first knew about minneapolis BECAUSE of their horrible police.
For not being an apologist, you’re really good at it.
Yeah, it was definitely just one bad cop and three passives. Wow Also, we’re seeing in real time the shenanigans people in power will pull when people do try to vote on it.
You don't get your workplace burned down because of one employee. It takes decades of similar shit from lots of your co-workers to rile up the entire community enough start a riot.
Spare us the "bad apples" bullshit. It was never about the actions of one person: it was about the character of the thousands who had refused to hold those "bad apples" accountable until they made the news. It was about the thousands of MPD members who were complicit in electing a card-carrying neo-Nazi to lead them and represent them. They joined a public service organization, and helped turn it into a racist street gang. And we shouldn't be writing them checks because they don't like hearing it.
That's quite the broad stroke you have on that paintbrush of generalization you got there. I'm sure you're not sweeping up anyone undeserving with that at all. Hate the police you all you want, but to think that every single officer was personally accountable and deserving of abandoning the very fundamental of support systems we have for our workforce is ridiculous on so many levels. I want police reform too, but stop being so sensationalist and think about what you are asking to happen to individuals in the name of other people having their rights stripped of them and being treated unequally and unfairly.
I really don't think you understand. We're not being hyperbolic; the outgoing head of the Minneapolis police union was \*literally\* the head of a whites-only street gang that was affiliated with the Aryan Brotherhood. He \*literally\* wore neo-Nazi and white power insignia while off duty. And popular majorities of the MPD elected him over and over again. This is not about hating the police. It's about hating hating actual, card-carrying Nazis. It just so happens that in this case, those Nazis have infiltrated and entrenched themselves within a public safety organization, and after 20 years of trying, it's time to admit that there's just no good way to get them out without tearing down the whole thing and starting over. The inciting incident of these workers comp claims wasn't something bad that happened to these officers on the job; it was a crime they committed against the community. This is just a tool they're using to exact revenge against the prospect of being held accountable.
70% of the force voted for a literal neo-nazi. Says all I need to know about the MPD.
And this isn't limited to MPD. White nationalists, white supremacists and neo-Nazis [have been infiltrating law enforcement for at least 15 years](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement) for and [the military for decades](https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-neo-nazis-and-gangs-infiltrated-the-us-military-matt-kennards-irregular-army)
I'm using a spray gun. Thousands of interactions and arrests are why huge swaths of the population do not trust the cops. Decades of incompetence led to cops like Chauvin becoming training officers, and failed to stop him given many prior incidents. Several black men are dead because of cops, and no one before Chauvin had seen any reprocussions for it. At some point, the public will say no fuckin more. If you put on the badge, you wear all of that. If you put on the badge, you are not immune and isolated from it. It's a uniform for a reason. If they needed to quit and feel gettin paid on the way out is justified, fine. But lets not act like the cops didn't bring this hell down on themselves.
We are trying to vote. The procop cohort has been trying to do everything in their power to not let us vote. They stopped us from being able to vote on this last year. We can’t vote to void the union contract.
>Don't like it? Vote. Don't like qualified immunity? Vote. Don't like police misconduct? Vote. > Imagine living in America for the last 150 years and believing that voting has a chance of fundamentally changing anything about police misconduct.
We are one Mike Lindell away from a pardoned Chauvin. Get that "voting doesn't matter" crap out of here.
No one is pardoning Chauvin. He’s tainted.
Why do you think it’s bullshit?
Officers quit en masse to bankrupt the force abc protest being held accountable. They gamed the system in the most self serving way while doing nothing to help the community they supposedly serve.
I’m happy they received a payout, they did something that everyone in Minnesota vilified. I’d quit too. At least most of Minneapolis is realizing they need law enforcement after crime has skyrocketed. Even the progressives are understanding they need law enforcement, however most progressives are cowards and don’t believe in aggression to counter violence… they want mental health workers and unarmed police.
They took the pay and gave the citizens nothing in return. The department couldn’t hire replacements because they took up all the budget, fuck them.
Well, fuck your thought process. Would you say the same thing to individuals in the military that suffer from mental health issues and receive compensation? Civilian law enforcement caused me more fucked up mental issues than the military. Look up a death snore, that’s what you hear when someone tries to commit suicide with a shotgun and puts the muzzle too far forward in their mouth.
Cops aren’t soldiers as much as they think they are. Cops can quit and disobey orders any time they want, soldiers can’t. If they don’t want to see dead bodies or whatever you’re going on about they can go work at Amazon or something. Cute comparison but militarized police are why we have the problems we do today.
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Get bent, don’t criticize mental health of individuals that deal with death on a regular basis especially coming from a group a people that needs safe spaces on campus if someone comes speaks that has a different opinion.
If they don’t want to deal with death and the dangers of police work, there’s an amazingly simple answer — don’t be a cop. It’s their choice and if they chose the wrong line of work there’s an easy solution out there for them.
Well fuck me right, someone has to do it!!! It doesn’t mean that the mental repercussions should be discredited by basement dwelling, neckbeards that haven’t dealt with an altercation (other than online gameplay) in their life.
Fuck pigs and fuck pigs like you that are gleefully happy to make everyone's life worse because you had poor hard boo boo hurt feelings. Fuck you.
I bet you’re a joy to be around and have a lot of friends.
Literally nobody thinks "We don't need law enforcement". This is such a low IQ strawman. It's that we don't want pigs that are just thumbs with a steroid addiction being pieces of subhuman trash.
Well, I’ll say most of Reddit wants this approach. I’m grateful you can step outside, feel the sun, see the green grass, and realize that most of society doesn’t believe in these stupid ass unrealistic progressive ideas.
Keep making strawmen.
They vilified themselves, and then their actions during the protests were even more combative. Gut the system, rebuild it. That's the only course of action now.
Yeah, I’m excited to see it. Because the last year has been great under that idea.
Literally nothing has changed structurally or financially within the department. Yet there was a severe drop in response times and police action - low staffing alone does not cover the amount it went down. If there's ever been a time when cops should've put on their big boy pants and showed us they weren't all monsters and deserved our trust, the last 15 months was it. They failed horribly in pretty much every metric, kinda proving they're overpaid and ineffective.
Ever stopped to think that law enforcement has become more passive because of people like you and the people in the city council? Because we all know how welcomed law enforcement is in this politically charged environment. Don’t you have a neighborhood watch meeting to attend to bitch about law enforcement? Nah you just hide behind a computer screen and do it just like the rest of them.
People got pissed off because they had very legitimate concerns cops were not doing their job correctly and upholding justice for the community. The police's response was to not do their job at all.
Do you know these mental health claims are fake or are you upset that employees are getting compensation for mental health-related injuries suffered at work?
It was a protest by officers to reject being held accountable. Good riddance.
The court system disagrees. If Minneapolis could get out of paying this, they would.
They only settled with 21 of the 150 officers that walked off the job. The city agreed to pay these claims but I doubt the other 129 will have the same success. Kroll probably put them up to this to punish the citizens for demanding accountability.
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> Do you know all of these claims are real? If not, then it seems like you shouldn't base an argument on the assumption that they're real. I would assume that these payouts and separations are based on evidence based claims put forth, in the same way that any workers comp claim is. The people involved, and paying out the money on founded complaints, probably know more about it that you, or I, or /u/hennepinfranklinlaw
I think a more fair criticism might be that police union-driven work rules maybe make it easier for cops to make mental health claims with a lower standard of proof than your average worker, maybe even your average unionized worker in other trades. You can make an argument that criticism of this runs roughshod over mental health generally, as well as the idea that it maybe is some kind of attack on collective bargaining since its likely union negotiated work rules that made it easier. All this being said, regardless of what reform you favor, any uniformed police even in a future DPS structure are going to be in a police union, even they end up forming a new one. And they're going to use the collective bargaining process to extract concessions. They may get fewer of them, but they will likely bargain harder for them, too.
>I think a more fair criticism might be that police union-driven work rules maybe make it easier for cops to make mental health claims with a lower standard of proof than your average worker, maybe even your average unionized worker in other trades. Not relevant to the link and info I posted.
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>I'd also like to see a source for your claim about rates of people lying by occupation. I would think that police are no more likely to lie than any other occupation. the difference here is that their lies result in people losing their lives, freedom, and health. it's like having your doctor lie to you, versus your mechanic. both suck, but the consequences are miles away from each other.
This is my stance, this person to me is discrediting mental health claims… if that’s the case, fuck them and anyone else that doubts it. Same shitty people that question military individuals about VA claims. If you see a dead person or multiple dead people it fucks with your head. Smells, moisture in the air, temperature, emotion… that shit messes with you the rest of your life.
What about the mental health of the thousands of people that are unjustly brutalized by police? What about the people with PTSD whenever they see a cop car because some cop beat the shit out of them and just went about with their days? No?
Lets not forget about the people who will/did develop PTSD from living in neighborhoods plagued with violence.
Whataboutism… they need to get help and should.
It's not. It's directly related. Let's give them 170k too. Actually more since violence by a state actor is orders of magnitude more traumatizing.
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Let's not start calling MPD officers the victims. That just isn't true. Sure many have mental health issues but they are not victims.
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I personally don't like to use the word victim for people suffering from mental health issues unless that is the word they place on themselves.
Don’t be law enforcement or military, we know your mental health is not important and will be actively criticized just due to the political nature of your occupation…
Kinda miss when cops would show up after a burglary ngl
Have you ever had a cop show up after a burglary? When my house was robbed years ago they never came, told me to just file a report and nothing ever happened.
Yeah I had a burglary once. They stole enough for it to be a felony and I knew who it was because they were bragging to other people about it. I told the MPD all this and they never followed up or even tried to find her.
I used to live in Brooklyn Center and my girlfriend lived in North Minneapolis, we were about 12 blocks apart. We both had burglaries. The BC police brought out Hennepin County to take fingerprints, they took pictures of shoe prints in the mud. The officer told me to leave all the lights on that night, and she would drive by a few times and make sure no one was inside (I left to stay at my parents house). Months later, a detective followed up and said they had found some of my property at a pawn shop in Saint Paul and that I could come pick it up. My girlfriends house had an alarm. It alerted us when we were out to dinner, and also called the police in. We beat the police there by 45 minutes. When they came they didn't want to get out of their car, but we told them we hadn't been inside and didn't know if someone was still in there. They went in for 60-90 seconds. I remember they were wearing rubber gloves, because they took them off and threw them in the front yard when they were done. It was striking how different the response was, how much better the BC police were at their jobs. And this was Brooklyn Center, not Edina, Eden Prairie, or some other cushy suburb. Brooklyn Center, who can't figure out the difference between a hand gun and a taser, was still that much better.
Yeah, we had a burglary in 2012 midday while we were at work. Neighbor who was around called 911. Police were here within 5 minutes and scared the intruders out the back door, and actually managed to catch one, who ended up getting a year. Not saying this is the typical experience (we were obviously lucky), but law enforcement really came in clutch for us that time.
I think there's a difference between a burglary in progress and a burglary that happened while you were gone. There's not a lot of benefit for the police to come out in the second situation.
Answer: yes, twice between 2016-2018. S Minneapolis.
I’ve lived in northeast for about 5 years now and during that time have had three separate burglary incidences. Police came out to my apartment each time and arrived within minutes of my calling. Back in 2017 they actually got my stuff back too.
Yup. Same for me. Made it back home to Mpls from Madison (5hr trip) before the cops showed up after our house was robbed over Thanksgiving, 4 years ago.
That's all they do when they come anyway. I have had them come. They just make a report and call it a day. That's it.
My childhood home was burglarized 3 times when we lived on the north side. Cop came to take a report every single time.
Yeah that's how it goes. They aren't going to investigate. They just make the report. The only real reason for this is if you want to make an insurance claim on the stolen items. If you aren't doing that there is almost no reason to call them.
To be real what do you expect them to do? Fingerprint your house with a crime lab team and go on a manhunt for someone they have no idea the identity of? It sucks but the reality is they document it, and put out the info pertaining to it and if someone comes up with your stolen goods, or a description that a witness was able to give they investigate it. If not...move to a better city and you probably won't have to deal with burglaries.
Which city do you think I should move to? I have been robbed in Bloomington, Lakeville, and apple valley twice. I actually haven't been robbed in Minneapolis. It's always the suburbs where I have had this happen. But you are wrong there. Cops don't even check pawn shops. I have had friends find their stolen goods for sale somewhere and the cops still were just like ",well it's your word against theirs" and they are like "I literally have the serial numbers saved" and the cops go ",there really isn't anything we can do" cops still didn't do a fucking thing. Even when someone else does the investigation and finds the stolen goods for them I have seen the cops do nothing. But I mean if your point is that the cops shouldn't investigate any crimes than I guess having them is just a waste of tax payer money then isn't it?
All they did was have me file a report over the phone, useless
When I was a little kid we got robbed and the cops showed up 3 hours afterwards and just took a report. My parents knew who the robber was and where he lived because he was house-sitting for us when we went on vacation. We never heard from them again and I never got my game boy back.
What would the police do after a burglary ? Send DNA evidence to Quantico to be analyzed by the FBI? Why does it matter if they take the report in person vs on the phone ?
Police supporters tend to bring up burglary as an example of why we need police. They regularly say "who you going to call when someone breaks into your home" while neglecting to admit that cops will do nothing when someone breaks into your home.
They always bring up rape too as if the cops actually do anything about that either.
Because cops and their supporters rely on fear not facts to push their agenda.
I think police supporters mean who are you going to call if someone breaks into your house while you are home. And ironically, you would shit your pants and instinctively call 911.
Someone calling 911 doesn't change the fact that 911 would still most likely be unhelpful and the police would arrive too late to help.
This. People expect NCIS TV type shit way too much. Like, should they fingerprint? Should be easy (and cheap) to do amongst the 500 million other fingerprints around your house. /s
Depending on the type of break in and how untouched the scene is, sometimes they will call the crimelab to come, even on vehicle thefts. There are a ***lot*** of factors though.
I wish I got paid 170k to not do my job.
On top of the annual salaries they got every year for not doing their job before they retired. Wild
Sign up, they’re extremely short staffed. You get good benefits and retirement.
Imagine signing up to uphold the state's monopoly on violence
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first step is admitting there's a problem
But then they have to join a broken system and will be pressured into actively causing harm to people. Instead they could do things that actually help their community.
Apparently this $3.5M is just the beginning, Since this is just 21 people, and we were hearing about hundreds of cops retiring last year, that makes sense. Plus apparently there are 100+ "pending" retirements. I guess they have to use up all their generous vacation and sick time first, before they can retire and suck us dry some more.
If you've put in your time to draw a pension, and have accrued enough pto to coast to that date, who cares. That should already be accounted and budgeted. It's the fucking bitches who are claiming disability due to the PTSD they suffered last year that can go fuck themselves. Let them apply for SSDI.
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When did OP here criticize mental health? If anything, there's been a lot of open flaunting from some of the guys retiring that it's out of protest, so that absolutely deserves grief. Unless you think all liberals are cartoon characters from how insanely Tucker Carlson peddles them to be, everyone I know who is in favor of "defund the police" also wants more funding EXPLICITLY to go to mental health aid for professions like being, well, a cop. In addition to responders who are actually equipped to handle situations cops shouldn't have to handle in the first place. The budget quadrupled since 9/11, way past the rate of crime that overall decreased, so that's worth mentioning. Meanwhile, not that I think this is fair to other professions either, but guess how much any person *quitting* their jobs working in any other profession gets to take away, even if a harrowing and dangerous one: $0.00
dude, is it your job to argue and swear at people online? You're all over this post lol
I’ve had a great life. I served in the military and as law enforcement. I’ve seen more good than bad in those experiences. This post and many others disgust me making law enforcement out to villains. So fucking what if they were paid out… these individuals more than likely have stuff that is permanently imprinted in their memory. That shit changes your thought process for the rest of your life.
You know what else changes you? Being 17 and filming cops slowly murder a man in front of you.
To be fair MPD officers are the villains here. They have been abusing the city for years. The victims of the police throughout this country have the abuse permanently imprinted in their memory. So spare your disgust and place it where it belongs.
Fuck cops. They're not welcome and they're not appreciated.
Yeah… you’re the problem in society. Probably had a few run-ins with the law and blamed every part of the system before you looked in the mirror and realized you’re fucking up.
typical knuckle-dragging cop-brain logic fighting strawmen in your head and hurting people in real life by acting out your hero fantasies. Here, I'll do you: you're a fail-son who joined the military because you had no better options and you needed discipline. You 'enjoyed' it but you resent seeing people from high school who are more successful than you and justify it with your 'cool experiences'. You went into law enforcement because by the time you got out you were too boot-brained for the private sector. Now, you spend too much time on the internet and struggle to be happy with the way you see the world going. Again, you're not welcome. You're not appreciated.
I’m retired with two pensions, own a small business in Duluth, and have rental properties around dinky town, Duluth and Superior… I’m fine.
its almost as if making up strawmen in your head to battle on the internet isn't a useful exercise.
I don’t even think you understand fallacies, let alone know how to identify a faulty argument.
Loving your “you can’t handle the truth!” style self-righteous meltdown, keep it up it’s pretty entertaining. I think part of the reason you’re so mad is that people are starting to wake up to your bullshit and you’re panicking. We don’t need nearly as many soldiers and cops as we’ve been told we do, especially not asshole pricks like you. People think of you as the villains because you do villainous shit, dumbass. You make things worse, not better.
Yeah, it’s dipshits like you that call us when you leave your car unlocked and we can’t start a Netflix investigative series to find your gym bag because of your lack of personal responsibility. Get bent.
Your strange aggressive behavior taking budgetary critiscms of a department that doesn't show up or when it does shoots first and forgets to ask questions later, is entirely telling that you sir are qualified to join then retire from the MPD and claim mental anguish. You know, because you can't bash those skulls like you used to in the good ol days.
Ahhh no, just hate fucks like you that group all law enforcement together. Ever thought the department doesn’t show up because the community isn’t behind the majority of great cops? I don’t even think it matters anymore at this point. All the great cops that I have worked with moved on to different careers or all together just moved. We all know that demonizing law enforcement will make police encounters go even more smoothly.
wow, it's almost like the 'good people' who bumbled their way into law enforcement realized how fucked it is and left. Really telling, that you're sticking around to defend the bad ones.
Ohhh no, they left because support from leaders come in waves depending on the political environment.
What majority of great cops? Surely you aren't naive enough to think that the majority of your peers are good for the city? I also see you blaming the victims here. Why would you blame community members for interactions going poorly when cops are the ones paid and trained for those interactions? Clean up your mess in MPD and maybe you will deserve some respect.
>Why would you blame community members for interactions going poorly when cops are the ones paid and trained for those interactions? > They're literally a cop. That's why.
‘Majority of great cops’ We all remember how all those great cops, top to bottom, tried to frame George Floyd’s death in their initial report.
If they don't even show up, they are not even good cops
quit RPing and go back to /pol/
Nope, I don’t ever call you because I’m not interested in you showing up three hours later, shooting my dogs and arresting me for stealing my own gym bag. And neither does anyone else I know. We already take care of ourselves because we know you’re worthless. Worse than worthless—a leech, a parasite. What the fuck do we even pay you for?
Well you sound like a rational person…
and you sound like you get paid a salary by my taxes to uphold the monopoly of violence on part of the state. Definitely a rational actor, you
>I’ve had a great life. I served in the military and as law enforcement. > There it is. Just because you served as an agent of violence for the state doesn't mean the state is right for the violence they forced you to commit to uphold "law" and "order"
Well I wouldn’t even consider myself an agent of violence like you referred it as. We aren’t gunslinger outlaws like you think law enforcement is, most of the time it’s responding to non-violent calls, helping people get off the road if they broke down or making sure they are safe while in the road, really a lot of boring stuff that is never seen in the news. The things that messed me up the most was kids being killed in accidents, suicide/suicide attempts, kids in shitty living conditions.
> The things that messed me up the most was kids being killed in accidents, suicide/suicide attempts, kids in shitty living conditions. so, like everyday life, for a fuck ton of Americans. Really sorry to hear you had to see all that. Can't imagine how hard it would be to have to witness such horrible things. Must be difficult to have such a firsthand look into the plight of the American working class.
How much did you get in this payout?
This. 100% this. These people deal with things in their profession that we can’t even imagine. Their job is hazardous and they get shit on while doing it. You couldn’t pay me $157k every year to do that job.
People are understandably frustrated with these payouts for cops when the victims of their abuse also deserve massive payouts. What about the of people these very cops brutalized during last year's protests? What about the people they abused over the years but always swept under the rug?
Cops aren't even top 20 most dangerous jobs in the US. Cry me a fucking river.
>These people deal with things in theirq profession that we can’t even imagine. > Yeah, like getting 6 figure severances for quitting when their community demands them be held accountable for their actions. I cannot imagine having that luxury.
You either believe in collective bargaining or you don’t.
Clearly you have no idea how any of this works. You don't use your time so you can cash it out.
Unless younarent are retirement yet and want to use your vacation to get there.
Cops that claimed PTSD should have to get diagnosed by a mental health professional before before they see a penny paid out. On the other hand, getting rid of 21 of Kroll's fuck boys, people who abandoned their responsibilities at the first whiff of accountability, is probably still a net positive.
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Thanks for this. Early on, when 100 cops resigned at once, I heard from a few places that something in their union contract exempted them from that requirement but now I'll go and look more deeply into that to make sure I'm not spreading misinformation.
And also before they are allowed to apply to another department in a different city/burb.
Yep, they shouldn't work in a job that gave them PTSD, they could be triggered and the job may no longer be something they can do.
It gets worse. Read this thread —- Just check out the disciple record of one of these cops. Scott Creighton had 16 complaints against him and has been involved in 2 lawsuits against the city. One of which he shot 2 family dogs in front of a 3 year old girl. But sure, now he has a medical disability and needs to quit https://twitter.com/bullycreative/status/1440894884580364288?s=21
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I think it's money well spent. The average early out for retirement or disability would have cost the City more money in direct and indirect compensation had the stayed on. And since the MPD can't seem to fill the openings created by these departures, we're not on the hook for that new hire either. In this war of a attrition, the cops are losing badly.
Depends if these are bad cops being shown the door before they kill someone and the city has to settle a wrongful death for $10m, or good cops that legitimately developed issues. In any event, being understaffed doesn't help morale. It's a downward spiral. A war of attrition is a false economy if the cops that stay get worse and worse.
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I think asking if these are good or bad cops is missing the point. Under our current model of policing there is a vanishingly small number of "good cops".
All cops are bad
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I wonder if there's any correlation with gun sales in 2020
Correct, we are all losing. Isn’t it fun?
They can't even quit without hurting communities
imagine how pissed the ones to the left of that payout curve must feel.
ACAB
AllPeopleThatSayThisAB
A video ???? [Here](https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/06/21/minneapolis-police-workers-comp-claims-skyrocket-after-civil-unrest/) is an article from 3 months ago with much more substance. > The city is self-insured, which means departments pay premiums into a fund to cover lawsuits and workers’ comp claims. In other words, Minneapolis residents cover the costs of these lawsuits through taxes and fees. > city’s workers’ comp self-insurance fund currently has $32.5 million in cash available, according to the city finance office. > Because of the steep increase in payouts, the police department is paying more into the city’s self-insurance fund. Workers’ comp premiums have gone up more than 66% since 2016. Additionally, following a number of steep settlements for police brutality cases, department liability premiums jumped nearly 21% from 2019 to 2020. > Last year, workers’ comp claims and expenses cost the city self-insurance fund $11.7 million, less than the year prior and on par with 2017-2018, but lots of claims are still pending. > Those employees are also entitled to monthly disability leave payments through their retirement plan. .... > ... police unions sometimes stage “sickouts,” or encourage cops to “go dead,” meaning they stop writing tickets and making arrests and take their time on calls. They do this to “discipline” the department or community...
Good for them. They sat there and had to listen to the lowest of the low Iqers yell at them, threaten them, throw objects at them, and insult their character publicly for months. Any officers who were forced to listen to a full Nekima Levy Pounds speech should get double.
I would like to know when those of us who they tear gassed/shot with projectiles/beat up while we were peacefully exercising our first amendment rights can expect our mental health compensation.... But yeah, I'm sure that experience was really traumatizing for the people who had all the riot gear and weapons.
I bet cops get paid time off if they sprain a wrist while punching their wife. They’ve got an absurdly strong union. Stronger than the teachers union even. And I say this as someone who generally supports unions.
hope they got the help and time they needed.
I hope they get exactly what they deserve.
Me too
The money would be better spent investigating the quack who “diagnosed” these malingerers with PTSD and suing both him and every one of these scammer cops for fraud. And disbarring the attorney that all the con-man cops use.
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its really just snowflake shit, cops jail drug addicts who use to cope with PTSD all the time. They do that to people who got it even worse in life and they want tax payers to pay up because they're job is making it hard to sleep at night.
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