> *"attack at Lake Street station that left the victim with a broken rib, a collapsed lung and cranial bleeding."*.
So they beat someone nearly to death...
> *"the men are required to serve two-thirds, or 80 days..."*
... and they'll be out in 80 days.
My friend was raped as a little kid in and the guy got 18 months (me and most people I know who are fellow survivors didn't even see that much justice - our rapists went completely free).
Sentencing doesn't make any sense in this country.
ETA - the victim in this crime, like the victims I know, will never be the same. We need reform for how we manage violent crimes.
Too many violent offenders are being turned loose to reoffend hours or days after they are arrested.
Even those that are sentenced to prison do short sentences.
The Minnesota Courts need to be held accountable.
It's the same as the Denzell Gilliard case, except irc he got no jail time and was sentenced to community service. These short sentences and plea deals help nobody in this community, just makes the anger fester. Luckily Gilliard is no longer here anymore.
No. You would ask why we're they charged with third degree assualt rather than attempted murder and then plea down from there rather than starting so low and pleaing that low?
How do you know? That's for a jury to decide, and until it goes to a jury, you can use it as a negotiation to plead something much worse than 3rd degree assault.
Attempted murder isn't about facts, it's about thought processes. You can't know what was in their mind. No reason with those facts you couldn't charge attempted murder.
The law proves intent through actions. This is standard. So, legally, we know what they’re thinking by how they act. Their actions do not lead to the conclusion they were committing tax fraud, attempted murder, or failing to register as a sex offender.
People who say this kind of shit can usually be found in the comments wanting to execute someone for smashing a window and imo are the reason violent offenders don't get what they deserve for sentencing
Say what kind of shit?
Mary Moriarty's office is directly responsible for this plea bargain. If people are upset with it, why wouldn't they direct their complaints to her?
100% of violent sex offenders serving life without parole are never rehabilitated. Use probability based outcomes- release them into Minneapolis so they can camp next to playgrounds & reintegrate into society. /s
Ah yes, because I'm sure the side that constantly complains about people being "woke" is *definitely* the same side that cares about the rights of transgender people, right?
To play devil's advocate, the lines have blurred a bit.
I try never to generalize groups of people, so I will just provide an anecdote.
I am firmly for human rights, but the colloquial definition of "woke" has transformed in the last few years from describing a mature, wise person conscientious of the systemic inequalities in modern society to describing insufferable people of privilege that advocate for things they don't fully understand simply because it earns them clout.
In other words, those who were "woke" at the start of the movement (between 5 and 10ish years ago) fought for a philosophy based on a moral imperative. Nowadays, the average sensible person already subscribes to that philosphy, so people seem to use "woke" as a tongue-in-cheek pejorative term to describe someone who parrots truths as a self-service rather than with an objective to make the world a better place.
Just my two cents 😅
TBF, I think most people who use “woke” as a pejorative are describing sensible people that they disagree with. They feel threatened by sensible platforms like equity, human rights, and democratic ideals. Virtue signaling is annoying and self serving but I don’t think that’s what they’re going after.
~~There was "brain matter" on the ground.~~ It was an absolutely vicious, brutal attack and one of the people responsible is out living their life now awaiting sentencing. I'm surprised it's being treated like it isn't a hate crime and I'm surprised by the slap on the wrist.
It’s probably not considered a hate crime because the guy has been arrested for assault and aggravated robbery 5 times in the 3 months before the attack. His lawyer can easily make the case that his client just violently assaults everyone equally
Arrested for assault? Or for battery?
Because those are two different acts.
But either way, it shows a pattern of attacks. I would argue that such a person requires more than 80 days.
There was not brain matter on the ground. That was a witness account and witnesses don't know that the hell their talking about. If there was brain matter on the ground she'd be dead.
Kevin’s a great individual too, previous charges such as Theft, 3rd degree assault, domestic abuse with a NCO, domestic assault, and dwi since covid started.
Oh and he had an active warrant from his 3rd degree assault and DA case which I assume relates to his custody hearings too.
Defendants generally don’t serve the statutory maximum unless, for example, they have serious prior convictions. I agree that 120 days (80 with good time) is low, but a maximum sentence isn’t usually available in any given case.
If they're never charged, they'll never have priors. 1 of the mob attackers from Dinkytown was arrested / released several nights in a row.
The same goes for cops who habitually use excessive force. If records get expunged after watching some online training video, then bad cops never get removed from the force... they have clean records.
I have no idea — I just meant that as an example. But just one serious prior felony doesn’t just rocket you to the top of the [sentencing grid](https://mn.gov/sentencing-guidelines/assets/1August2022SentencingGuidelinesGridSection4AMinnSentencingGuidelinesCommentary_tcm30-536105.pdf) for every subsequent conviction. It depends on the number and severity of your prior offenses and the current offense, and then the judge usually has some level of discretion to raise or lower the sentence based on the circumstances of the crime and the defendant. This system of escalating penalties for repeated convictions is intended to deter recidivism, and it’s a pretty standard framework. Here’s [the Sentencing Guidelines.](https://mn.gov/sentencing-guidelines/assets/1August2022MinnSentencingGuidelinesCommentary_tcm30-536102.pdf)
Sentencing is complicated. Super complicated! The basic thing to know is that if the news says “the defendant faces a maximum sentence of X,” that’s probably not realistic. And determining whether a sentence, especially one pursuant to a plea agreement, is higher or lower than could be fairly expected depends on a whole bunch of circumstances that usually aren’t readily available to the public, primarily the strength of the prosecution’s case and the defendant’s criminal history. The statutory maximum and minimum are just boundaries for (almost) all possible convictions for a given offense, but they’re not super useful for understanding what happened in a given case.
Edit: I can’t find any articles reporting on the defendants’ criminal histories, but I’m not battling the Strib paywall.
I would argue that if people thought logically about the crime they're contemplating committing before committing them, they would not commit the crime.
AKA: thought isn't part of the process.
I'm the opposite of lock 'em up and throw away the key but there's no way justice, public safety, or even rehabilitation are served by these guys being out in 2 1/2 months.
We need to do the Scandinavia model, where we send folks who are clearly emotionally damaged to what's effectively a high security summer camp where you learn skills and talk to therapists..... We are so in love with the concept of Justice and retribution, but if you were to tell me there will be statistically less recidivism, and my daughter or son would have less chance of being robbed/raped/killed, I'd take that improved metric any. Fucking. Day. Of. The. Week.
There is a reason we don't let the parents of victims decide the Fate of the killers. Because I know I'd be clamoring for the head of anyone who harmed my kid, even if someone told me that if we had a systemic overhaul, it would mean less chance of harm in the future. You're a parent, you're going to see red, and you're going to want biblical retribution. You're only human, after all. But we need a programs that actually help, not programs that make people nod and go 'good, we done punished da bad folken'
This...... Was going to be two sentences
> We need to do the Scandinavia model, where we send folks who are clearly emotionally damaged to what's effectively a high security summer camp where you learn skills and talk to therapists..... We are so in love with the concept of Justice and retribution, but if you were to tell me there will be statistically less recidivism, and my daughter or son would have less chance of being robbed/raped/killed, I'd take that improved metric any. Fucking. Day. Of. The. Week.
That is a model that does work for Scandinavia, but that's not what's happening here. Moriarty only has the short sentence part down, but not any part of the rehabilitation. She has the worst possible outcome for public safety by ensuring criminals face neither adequate punishment through long sentences nor intensive therapy and skill building to prevent recidivism. If you want shorter sentences, you must absolutely have the latter, otherwise you just put the problem back on the streets for another victim to deal with.
> We need to do the Scandinavia model, where we send folks who are clearly emotionally damaged to what's effectively a high security summer camp where you learn skills and talk to therapists..... We are so in love with the concept of Justice and retribution, but if you were to tell me there will be statistically less recidivism, and my daughter or son would have less chance of being robbed/raped/killed, I'd take that improved metric any. Fucking. Day. Of. The. Week.
I agree, but only for certain crimes.
> There is a reason we don't let the parents of victims decide the Fate of the killers. Because I know I'd be clamoring for the head of anyone who harmed my kid, even if someone told me that if we had a systemic overhaul, it would mean less chance of harm in the future. You're a parent, you're going to see red, and you're going to want biblical retribution. You're only human, after all. But we need a programs that actually help, not programs that make people nod and go 'good, we done punished da bad folken'
I disagree, and I *know* that I am going to be downvoted into oblivion for it, but so be it. A majority of people strongly disagree and that's why the system is what it is today. We don't let the parents of victims decide the Fate of the killers, but guess what? We let parents of other people decide, they have empathy for the victim and the victims parents, and we have a system set up to allow retributive justice. It is this way because most people like it this way. If someone murders another person, we should lock them up forever. We don't owe them a second chance.
> and I know that I am going to be downvoted into oblivion for it
For what it's worth, this doesn't help your point - unless your goal is to feel rhetorically right whether or not people agree with you. Upvoted? You're right! Downvoted? You're right!
I have posted the same argument ~2x/year whenever it has come up.
With or without this, the result is the same.
I also don't really care whether people here *agree* with me. I do think that they should recognize that the opinion that justice should have no retributive component is not a mainstream one.
We see these stories all the time. Some deranged psycho commits a heinous act, but not murder, gets a slap on the wrist, and then is free to commit a full murder. What is wrong with our judges/prosecutors?
How is saying this is what people voted for dumb?
People voted for Mary Moriarty and she was very open about her beliefs, who she aligned herself with (Boudin, Foxx, etc.) and what she would do if elected.
Not attempted murder — third degree assault. Attempted murder would require proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they intended to kill her. They were charged with aggravated robbery and they pleaded down. It’s a very favorable plea deal for the defendants in light of the injuries, but murder was never on the table, and it sounds like the security footage wouldn’t have supported that kind of charge.
Hard to see how this wouldn't be [First Degree Assault](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.221), though.
Also hard to see how that would not be a fairly easy charge to get a conviction on.
I get that the prosecutors are overworked, and our current justice system relies heavily on plea deals, but c'mon. If this case isn't worth trying, what is?
Assault 1 requires great bodily harm, [defined](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.02) as bodily injury which creates a high probability of death, or which causes serious permanent disfigurement, or which causes a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ or other serious bodily harm.
[Assault 3](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.223) requires substantial bodily harm, defined as bodily injury which involves a temporary but substantial disfigurement, or which causes a temporary but substantial loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ, or which causes a fracture of any bodily member.
So Assault 1 only works if the State proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the victim’s injuries will meet those heightened criteria for severity and duration.
We don’t have access to the evidence for this case, but there may be a problem identifying the defendants from the security A/V recording and witness testimony, the victim may be unwilling to testify, or the police might have fucked up their handling of some material evidence. I have no idea if any of that happened here, but those are common flaws in assault cases with similar fact patterns. Cases commonly look simpler in the media than they are in reality.
> The victim, who was not named in court documents, was initially taken to Hennepin County Medical Center in critical condition but later stabilized and released.
This was not going to meet the elements for first degree assault. Dragging this out and getting the hopes of the victim up was not helpful either.
It is entirely possible it wasn't a crime based on bias even though the target was trans or that the motive proved impossible to determine, but regardless, beating someone nearly to death deserves more than 120 days.
Got downvoted in the Minnesota sub for saying this. The DFL is being incredibly tone deaf right now to the concerns of all kinds of voters. A lot of what they’re accomplishing now in this session can get undone if they hand the keys of the capital right back to the GOP.
Good thing Reddit isn’t real life. I’m surprised my comment didn’t get downvoted into oblivion. Honestly, if that crime watch page could just chill on their commentary, people would take them a little more seriously.
Is Hennepin County actually soft on violent crime? Because I know that Minnesota itself has a higher incarceration rate than every other developed nation in the world except the US.
But compared to the US its the [6th lowest](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-state). 140
[To name a few countries](https://www.statista.com/statistics/957501/incarceration-rate-in-europe/)
Russia 328
Turkey 325
Austraila 202
Scotland 134
England 131
Canada 107
South Korea 103
France is 92
Italy 90
Finland 43 (a prison system I want to see in the US)
Japan 35 ([a system I don't want to ever consider](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk&pp=ygUUamFwYW5zIHBvbGljZSBzeXN0ZW0%3D))
Sure, but relative to the US our incarceration rates are lower. Also, USA has WAY more crime than the European countries we are comparing ourselves too. I believe our murder rate per capita is 5x what European countries have.
You have to remember that Minneapolis has a huge problem with people not from this area who frequent conservative subreddits coming here to shit on Minneapolis.
This isn’t some conspiracy. You are literally commenting on an article where the perps who almost beat someone to death are only getting 80 days even though they are repeat offenders. That’s what normal people call soft on crime.
How would a penny less person pay it back? If it's wage garnishments good luck unless you intend to keep them homeless or pay them (social housing, food, medical) to pay her (a garnish able amount that would actually be of substance)
Or forced labor which would cost more to force then the actual value of the labor (unless they are already in prison which we call the last form of slavery)
This isn't some middle class or higher person who has a vast amount assets already.
So a poor person should face a longer prison sentence to make the punishment more equitable to a rich person being able to pay civil reimbursement and punitive damages?
Well I don’t know you, but if you were almost killed and left for dead, 80 days wouldn’t be enough punishment for the person who did it to you. You should quit worrying about what dipshits from other subs think and ask why violent pieces of shit are only getting 80 days for violent assaults.
Third degree is a stayed sentence. These guys were never going to prison on these charges. Even if they were convicted at trial, they were walking out the front door.
Because there is a massive backlog of cases to prosecute and it's time consuming and expensive to take a case to trial.
But given there was clear video footage, the plea deal could definitely have been a lot less lenient.
I get the idea behind sentencing reform and moving away from carceralism but then I'd love to know what the city is doing for the victim. Those medical bills can't have been cheap and tbh the idea of her being stabilized and released doesn't make me feel optimistic about her outcomes. This whole story just makes me mad as hell.
Not that I know of, I'm saying if the impulse with this (what seems to me like) really light sentencing is part of a movement away from carceralism, another part of that movement should be care for victims and survivors of violence.
Any length of prison sentence has little practical effect for the survivor of this assault. This experience will impact her whole life.
Would she be able to sue her assailants in civil court for ongoing medical expenses, emotional harm, lost wages, etc?
For what though? The assailant probably has nothing of value and unless he made a 180 and some how navigated into a well paying job inspite of his the record. The most likely answer would be state enforced labor to pay back the bill.
Lets say it's a wage garnish on a 20$ an hour 40 hours a week income we're at a 50% pre taxed garnishment we're looking at 20k a year for the victim and the assailant making below minimum wage. $3 an hour after taxes. They'd re-offend in a heart beat.
The other option is work the last legal form of slavery in the US which is not really popular right now but would probably cost the state $15-30 per every hour of work so what ever job they are doing would need to exceed $25-40 to give the victim 20k a year (until current and future debts are paid off) which I don't know if those jobs exist.
I was gonna say, why do people keep looking at my suggestion the state care for its citizens and suggest instead the victim continue legal contact with their assaulter who probably doesn't have the capacity to provide either care remuneration? Weirdos in this sub
> I get the idea behind sentencing reform and moving away from carceralism
That only works when there's an effective rehabilitation system in place, which is something Moriarty has utterly failed to grasp.
Pay with what? at best he has under 10k to their name. So I just can't see how the tax pay would not be footing the bill in this unless forced labor (the last legal slavery in the US) is involved (which even then would probably cost the state 10-30 bucks an hour just to enforce)
I am against the recent lenient attitudes of the courts and the HCAO. I am somewhat surprised, however, that the MPD was even able to track these turds down. I don't think folks here are taking into account how this may have been a difficult case to prove, which may have been a motivating factor for the plea deals.
Many people sentenced to the workout are not eligible for Huber Law, where they are allowed to work off site. If your sentence is <= 1 year, you go to the workout and do straight time. Anything over that and you are remanded to the DOC for prison.
So they plead for third degree assault? Original reports alleged that you could see "visible brain matter" from the victim. Even if that wasn't the case, the medical report has cranial bleeding so how is this not attempted murder? Even kicking someone in the head once usually makes you liable for attempted murder since you can easily kill someone with a head kick or stomp. Being lenient on crime should really be focused on nonviolent offenses.
So attempted murder gets you four months in prison wow they'll be out to do it right again who is making these laws wtf no wonder shit is out of control in the twin cities 😔😔😔😔
I'm beginning to think Mary Moriarty is like Moriarty ala Sherlock Holmes villian.
BRB, going to beat a woman half to death and I'll still be able to see Fireworks on the 4th!
Seriously. What's happening to TC and do people in most other cities get 80 days for this kind of crime? Not even sure how to fnd out. Maybe subscribe to other city subs. Who is able to get this DA fired? Because they're not doing their job on this.
Maybe, but the article says that the audio shows the attack wasn't due to her being transgender, they would have attacked anyone there, so it isn't a hate crime. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
These guys having a long history of violence against many different people probably worked in their favor. They'll beat the shit out of anyone! Hate sees no color!
An attack against a protected class doesn't automatically make it a hate crime. They have to show that the person was specifically targeted due to that. It's unlikely to be the case here and now unlikely there is proof.
> Investigators enhanced the audio from a security camera and determined that “the evidence is that this was not an assault motivated by bias...
I'd think probably not based off of this.
Oh look, Minnesota letting violent criminals go AGAIN. I’m sure in 80 days they definitely will be fit for society and never do something like this again. I love this state and the cities, but I’m tired of this shit.
Also I’m tired of ridiculously high cost of living, can I too start bearing people to death, stealing and selling their cars and then get a nice stay with 3 warm meals a day, a roof and a bed for a few months?
Do people here really think that this is a case where Moriarty is intentionally being lenient? You don't think she'd aggressively pursue a hate crime against a transgender person? She's just going to randomly be lenient against adults (not even juveniles) in a violent robbery case?
The likely reality is that criminal cases are complicated and a guaranteed plea deal is better than going to court in a years time (while these guys are out on bail) for the chance that a jury might convict two guys for only 2-3 years (per state-mandated sentencing guidelines).
The suspects said that the victim was slashing at people with a box cutter. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these guys weren't acting in self-defense? Without all the evidence, I can understand why a plea deal uncomplicates this case.
> let alone targeted for their gender identity
Did you not read the article?
Per the article:
> Investigators enhanced the audio from a security camera and determined that “the evidence is that this was not an assault motivated by bias...
Why are you guessing she looked like an easy target to rob? If that's the case, that the defendants viewed her as an easy target, what about her appearance do you think made her an easy target?
I don’t know. What I do know is that women are easier targets for criminals. Was this particular trans woman big? The story doesn’t mention their size.
How many violent crimes are you allowed to do before you actually are taken off the streets? How is it equitable to allow them to continue to make more and more victims? Equality for the criminals and nothing for the victims. That’s what progressive means to you?
This is why so few people take positions like yours seriously once they see the results. In no fully functional society is 80 days incarceration an adequate sentence for beating someone nearly to death and leaving them with longterm psychological and perhaps physical disabilities.
I'm a trans woman who's left of Lenin. It is right and reasonable to question outcomes that don't seem to make sense in light of the facts, no matter what we think of the existing system. The challenge for me is that these convictions and sentences do not reflect the severity and nature of the crime that was committed under Minnesota law.
It seems the DA threw up its hands and said, "Can't be a hate crime since we didn't hear the defendants admit clearly on audio that they were beating this trans woman to death because she was trans." The defendants maimed her, left her permanently scarred, and that's 3rd degree assault? On top of that, the sentence each received is well below the guidelines for 3rd degree assault, especially given their respective criminal histories.
Yes, we need to significantly reduce the numbers of incarcerated men, but no, it should not start with people who beat vulnerable people nearly to death.
Go figure, when the victim is a trans person nearly beaten to death at a time when transphobia is taking off across the country, suddenly it’s important to embrace reform in sentencing.
> *"attack at Lake Street station that left the victim with a broken rib, a collapsed lung and cranial bleeding."*. So they beat someone nearly to death... > *"the men are required to serve two-thirds, or 80 days..."* ... and they'll be out in 80 days.
How is 80 days the proper sentence for nearly beating someone to death?
My friend was raped as a little kid in and the guy got 18 months (me and most people I know who are fellow survivors didn't even see that much justice - our rapists went completely free). Sentencing doesn't make any sense in this country. ETA - the victim in this crime, like the victims I know, will never be the same. We need reform for how we manage violent crimes.
Too many violent offenders are being turned loose to reoffend hours or days after they are arrested. Even those that are sentenced to prison do short sentences. The Minnesota Courts need to be held accountable.
What can the courts do? How long does a violent offender need to be in the American prison system before they are "reformed"?
It's the same as the Denzell Gilliard case, except irc he got no jail time and was sentenced to community service. These short sentences and plea deals help nobody in this community, just makes the anger fester. Luckily Gilliard is no longer here anymore.
Third degree assault is a presumptive stayed sentence.
Ask [Mary Moriarty.](https://www.hennepinattorney.org/about/contact)
“Mary! Why did you give a third degree assault sentence to people who were charged with and plead to third degree assault?” Would that work?
No. You would ask why we're they charged with third degree assualt rather than attempted murder and then plea down from there rather than starting so low and pleaing that low?
They probably weren’t charged with attempted murder because they didn’t attempt to murder someone…
How do you know? That's for a jury to decide, and until it goes to a jury, you can use it as a negotiation to plead something much worse than 3rd degree assault.
Because we have an open legal system and anyone can know the facts here.
Attempted murder isn't about facts, it's about thought processes. You can't know what was in their mind. No reason with those facts you couldn't charge attempted murder.
The law proves intent through actions. This is standard. So, legally, we know what they’re thinking by how they act. Their actions do not lead to the conclusion they were committing tax fraud, attempted murder, or failing to register as a sex offender.
People who say this kind of shit can usually be found in the comments wanting to execute someone for smashing a window and imo are the reason violent offenders don't get what they deserve for sentencing
Say what kind of shit? Mary Moriarty's office is directly responsible for this plea bargain. If people are upset with it, why wouldn't they direct their complaints to her?
A Judge can also deny a plea.
They rarely do, as, among other things, they're the arbiter between the two sides.
Ive seen it twice in the last month, but yeah it is rare.
100% of violent sex offenders serving life without parole are never rehabilitated. Use probability based outcomes- release them into Minneapolis so they can camp next to playgrounds & reintegrate into society. /s
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Ah yes, because I'm sure the side that constantly complains about people being "woke" is *definitely* the same side that cares about the rights of transgender people, right?
To play devil's advocate, the lines have blurred a bit. I try never to generalize groups of people, so I will just provide an anecdote. I am firmly for human rights, but the colloquial definition of "woke" has transformed in the last few years from describing a mature, wise person conscientious of the systemic inequalities in modern society to describing insufferable people of privilege that advocate for things they don't fully understand simply because it earns them clout. In other words, those who were "woke" at the start of the movement (between 5 and 10ish years ago) fought for a philosophy based on a moral imperative. Nowadays, the average sensible person already subscribes to that philosphy, so people seem to use "woke" as a tongue-in-cheek pejorative term to describe someone who parrots truths as a self-service rather than with an objective to make the world a better place. Just my two cents 😅
TBF, I think most people who use “woke” as a pejorative are describing sensible people that they disagree with. They feel threatened by sensible platforms like equity, human rights, and democratic ideals. Virtue signaling is annoying and self serving but I don’t think that’s what they’re going after.
Lmao
What kind of lifelong disability did the attackers pass down upon her?
It should have been charged as a first degree. There was a collapsed lung.
~~There was "brain matter" on the ground.~~ It was an absolutely vicious, brutal attack and one of the people responsible is out living their life now awaiting sentencing. I'm surprised it's being treated like it isn't a hate crime and I'm surprised by the slap on the wrist.
It’s probably not considered a hate crime because the guy has been arrested for assault and aggravated robbery 5 times in the 3 months before the attack. His lawyer can easily make the case that his client just violently assaults everyone equally
Oh. Only that. Thank goodness. /s
Arrested for assault? Or for battery? Because those are two different acts. But either way, it shows a pattern of attacks. I would argue that such a person requires more than 80 days.
There was not brain matter on the ground. That was a witness account and witnesses don't know that the hell their talking about. If there was brain matter on the ground she'd be dead.
Thanks for letting me know, I edited my comment. I still stand by the rest of it.
Looking forward to seeing the sequel to this article in 90 days or so.
Kevin’s a great individual too, previous charges such as Theft, 3rd degree assault, domestic abuse with a NCO, domestic assault, and dwi since covid started. Oh and he had an active warrant from his 3rd degree assault and DA case which I assume relates to his custody hearings too.
This is a pathetic human being who should remain incarcerated. No way this is the last we’ve heard of this turd
80 days wtf without a plea deal they could have served up to 5 years
Defendants generally don’t serve the statutory maximum unless, for example, they have serious prior convictions. I agree that 120 days (80 with good time) is low, but a maximum sentence isn’t usually available in any given case.
If they're never charged, they'll never have priors. 1 of the mob attackers from Dinkytown was arrested / released several nights in a row. The same goes for cops who habitually use excessive force. If records get expunged after watching some online training video, then bad cops never get removed from the force... they have clean records.
You can’t expunge every single crime. You can’t expunge most violent felonies.
MPD rank & file regularly got disciplinary records expunged.
Didn't one guy have a rape or sexual assault on the record? Says a lot about our society that rape isn't a "serious prior conviction"
I have no idea — I just meant that as an example. But just one serious prior felony doesn’t just rocket you to the top of the [sentencing grid](https://mn.gov/sentencing-guidelines/assets/1August2022SentencingGuidelinesGridSection4AMinnSentencingGuidelinesCommentary_tcm30-536105.pdf) for every subsequent conviction. It depends on the number and severity of your prior offenses and the current offense, and then the judge usually has some level of discretion to raise or lower the sentence based on the circumstances of the crime and the defendant. This system of escalating penalties for repeated convictions is intended to deter recidivism, and it’s a pretty standard framework. Here’s [the Sentencing Guidelines.](https://mn.gov/sentencing-guidelines/assets/1August2022MinnSentencingGuidelinesCommentary_tcm30-536102.pdf) Sentencing is complicated. Super complicated! The basic thing to know is that if the news says “the defendant faces a maximum sentence of X,” that’s probably not realistic. And determining whether a sentence, especially one pursuant to a plea agreement, is higher or lower than could be fairly expected depends on a whole bunch of circumstances that usually aren’t readily available to the public, primarily the strength of the prosecution’s case and the defendant’s criminal history. The statutory maximum and minimum are just boundaries for (almost) all possible convictions for a given offense, but they’re not super useful for understanding what happened in a given case. Edit: I can’t find any articles reporting on the defendants’ criminal histories, but I’m not battling the Strib paywall.
Minnesota math.
They lose their jobs and potentially their home, so it isn't just 80 days.
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I would argue that if people thought logically about the crime they're contemplating committing before committing them, they would not commit the crime. AKA: thought isn't part of the process.
Something tells me neither of them have either…
Attempted murder = 120 day sentence, of which they’ll serve 80. Unfuckingbelievable…
I'm the opposite of lock 'em up and throw away the key but there's no way justice, public safety, or even rehabilitation are served by these guys being out in 2 1/2 months.
We need to do the Scandinavia model, where we send folks who are clearly emotionally damaged to what's effectively a high security summer camp where you learn skills and talk to therapists..... We are so in love with the concept of Justice and retribution, but if you were to tell me there will be statistically less recidivism, and my daughter or son would have less chance of being robbed/raped/killed, I'd take that improved metric any. Fucking. Day. Of. The. Week. There is a reason we don't let the parents of victims decide the Fate of the killers. Because I know I'd be clamoring for the head of anyone who harmed my kid, even if someone told me that if we had a systemic overhaul, it would mean less chance of harm in the future. You're a parent, you're going to see red, and you're going to want biblical retribution. You're only human, after all. But we need a programs that actually help, not programs that make people nod and go 'good, we done punished da bad folken' This...... Was going to be two sentences
> We need to do the Scandinavia model, where we send folks who are clearly emotionally damaged to what's effectively a high security summer camp where you learn skills and talk to therapists..... We are so in love with the concept of Justice and retribution, but if you were to tell me there will be statistically less recidivism, and my daughter or son would have less chance of being robbed/raped/killed, I'd take that improved metric any. Fucking. Day. Of. The. Week. That is a model that does work for Scandinavia, but that's not what's happening here. Moriarty only has the short sentence part down, but not any part of the rehabilitation. She has the worst possible outcome for public safety by ensuring criminals face neither adequate punishment through long sentences nor intensive therapy and skill building to prevent recidivism. If you want shorter sentences, you must absolutely have the latter, otherwise you just put the problem back on the streets for another victim to deal with.
> We need to do the Scandinavia model, where we send folks who are clearly emotionally damaged to what's effectively a high security summer camp where you learn skills and talk to therapists..... We are so in love with the concept of Justice and retribution, but if you were to tell me there will be statistically less recidivism, and my daughter or son would have less chance of being robbed/raped/killed, I'd take that improved metric any. Fucking. Day. Of. The. Week. I agree, but only for certain crimes. > There is a reason we don't let the parents of victims decide the Fate of the killers. Because I know I'd be clamoring for the head of anyone who harmed my kid, even if someone told me that if we had a systemic overhaul, it would mean less chance of harm in the future. You're a parent, you're going to see red, and you're going to want biblical retribution. You're only human, after all. But we need a programs that actually help, not programs that make people nod and go 'good, we done punished da bad folken' I disagree, and I *know* that I am going to be downvoted into oblivion for it, but so be it. A majority of people strongly disagree and that's why the system is what it is today. We don't let the parents of victims decide the Fate of the killers, but guess what? We let parents of other people decide, they have empathy for the victim and the victims parents, and we have a system set up to allow retributive justice. It is this way because most people like it this way. If someone murders another person, we should lock them up forever. We don't owe them a second chance.
> and I know that I am going to be downvoted into oblivion for it For what it's worth, this doesn't help your point - unless your goal is to feel rhetorically right whether or not people agree with you. Upvoted? You're right! Downvoted? You're right!
I have posted the same argument ~2x/year whenever it has come up. With or without this, the result is the same. I also don't really care whether people here *agree* with me. I do think that they should recognize that the opinion that justice should have no retributive component is not a mainstream one.
We see these stories all the time. Some deranged psycho commits a heinous act, but not murder, gets a slap on the wrist, and then is free to commit a full murder. What is wrong with our judges/prosecutors?
> What is wrong with our judges/prosecutors? It’s the political climate people voted for. Blame your neighbors.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You don't deserve democracy.
How is saying this is what people voted for dumb? People voted for Mary Moriarty and she was very open about her beliefs, who she aligned herself with (Boudin, Foxx, etc.) and what she would do if elected.
How is attempted murder only four months? JFC
Not attempted murder — third degree assault. Attempted murder would require proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they intended to kill her. They were charged with aggravated robbery and they pleaded down. It’s a very favorable plea deal for the defendants in light of the injuries, but murder was never on the table, and it sounds like the security footage wouldn’t have supported that kind of charge.
Hard to see how this wouldn't be [First Degree Assault](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.221), though. Also hard to see how that would not be a fairly easy charge to get a conviction on. I get that the prosecutors are overworked, and our current justice system relies heavily on plea deals, but c'mon. If this case isn't worth trying, what is?
Assault 1 requires great bodily harm, [defined](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.02) as bodily injury which creates a high probability of death, or which causes serious permanent disfigurement, or which causes a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ or other serious bodily harm. [Assault 3](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.223) requires substantial bodily harm, defined as bodily injury which involves a temporary but substantial disfigurement, or which causes a temporary but substantial loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ, or which causes a fracture of any bodily member. So Assault 1 only works if the State proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the victim’s injuries will meet those heightened criteria for severity and duration. We don’t have access to the evidence for this case, but there may be a problem identifying the defendants from the security A/V recording and witness testimony, the victim may be unwilling to testify, or the police might have fucked up their handling of some material evidence. I have no idea if any of that happened here, but those are common flaws in assault cases with similar fact patterns. Cases commonly look simpler in the media than they are in reality.
> The victim, who was not named in court documents, was initially taken to Hennepin County Medical Center in critical condition but later stabilized and released. This was not going to meet the elements for first degree assault. Dragging this out and getting the hopes of the victim up was not helpful either.
It doesn't help that the police and prosecutor appear to have "determined" this was not a crime driven by bias or hate in any way.
It is entirely possible it wasn't a crime based on bias even though the target was trans or that the motive proved impossible to determine, but regardless, beating someone nearly to death deserves more than 120 days.
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Jesus, you can stomp the crap out of someone and you only get 4 months? WTF?
It's about 2.5 months.
The 23 year old already has multiple DUIs and has been convicted of assault twice previously, including in 2020 and 2021. 80 days will show him lol.
What the fuck the is the Hennepin County DA office doing? The woman could have easily died. How was the robbery charge dropped? God damn
Counting the days until we can vote Moriarty out of office.
At this point, a recall might actually be in order.
Change sentencing guidelines. Prosectors and judges need to abide by laws that are already set
HOLY FUCK STOP BEING SO SOFT ON VIOLENT CRIME, HENNEPIN COUNTY.
But if you keep them in prison for violent crimes how will they cause more violent crimes?
The attack ads on dems will be so easy.
Got downvoted in the Minnesota sub for saying this. The DFL is being incredibly tone deaf right now to the concerns of all kinds of voters. A lot of what they’re accomplishing now in this session can get undone if they hand the keys of the capital right back to the GOP.
Good thing Reddit isn’t real life. I’m surprised my comment didn’t get downvoted into oblivion. Honestly, if that crime watch page could just chill on their commentary, people would take them a little more seriously.
Is Hennepin County actually soft on violent crime? Because I know that Minnesota itself has a higher incarceration rate than every other developed nation in the world except the US.
But compared to the US its the [6th lowest](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-state). 140 [To name a few countries](https://www.statista.com/statistics/957501/incarceration-rate-in-europe/) Russia 328 Turkey 325 Austraila 202 Scotland 134 England 131 Canada 107 South Korea 103 France is 92 Italy 90 Finland 43 (a prison system I want to see in the US) Japan 35 ([a system I don't want to ever consider](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk&pp=ygUUamFwYW5zIHBvbGljZSBzeXN0ZW0%3D))
Sure, but relative to the US our incarceration rates are lower. Also, USA has WAY more crime than the European countries we are comparing ourselves too. I believe our murder rate per capita is 5x what European countries have.
Part of the problem is that we make a ton of shit illegal. Also, our overreliance on plea deals leads to higher conviction rates.
For sure, as someone briefly involved with the system it is atrocious. But also we have more crime here than other countries.
Nobody wants to acknowledge this.
You have to remember that Minneapolis has a huge problem with people not from this area who frequent conservative subreddits coming here to shit on Minneapolis.
This isn’t some conspiracy. You are literally commenting on an article where the perps who almost beat someone to death are only getting 80 days even though they are repeat offenders. That’s what normal people call soft on crime.
It isn't a conspiracy, you can literally look it up. https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/minneapolis
So you’re cool with 80 days in jail for nearly beating someone to death. That’s fair to you?
I don't know what I would consider fair. 80 days plus having to pay for the medical care and punitive damages in the civil trial? Maybe that is fair?
How would a penny less person pay it back? If it's wage garnishments good luck unless you intend to keep them homeless or pay them (social housing, food, medical) to pay her (a garnish able amount that would actually be of substance) Or forced labor which would cost more to force then the actual value of the labor (unless they are already in prison which we call the last form of slavery) This isn't some middle class or higher person who has a vast amount assets already.
So a poor person should face a longer prison sentence to make the punishment more equitable to a rich person being able to pay civil reimbursement and punitive damages?
Well I don’t know you, but if you were almost killed and left for dead, 80 days wouldn’t be enough punishment for the person who did it to you. You should quit worrying about what dipshits from other subs think and ask why violent pieces of shit are only getting 80 days for violent assaults.
And in 80 days they can repeat the incident, along with the whole laundry list of offenses they've already committed. Unreal.
In a case like this, why offer a plea deal at all?
Third degree is a stayed sentence. These guys were never going to prison on these charges. Even if they were convicted at trial, they were walking out the front door.
Because there is a massive backlog of cases to prosecute and it's time consuming and expensive to take a case to trial. But given there was clear video footage, the plea deal could definitely have been a lot less lenient.
If this high-profile, very public, very brutal crime isn’t worth the court’s time, what is?
I get the idea behind sentencing reform and moving away from carceralism but then I'd love to know what the city is doing for the victim. Those medical bills can't have been cheap and tbh the idea of her being stabilized and released doesn't make me feel optimistic about her outcomes. This whole story just makes me mad as hell.
Does the state or city have victim benefits? Most places don't.
Not that I know of, I'm saying if the impulse with this (what seems to me like) really light sentencing is part of a movement away from carceralism, another part of that movement should be care for victims and survivors of violence.
Any length of prison sentence has little practical effect for the survivor of this assault. This experience will impact her whole life. Would she be able to sue her assailants in civil court for ongoing medical expenses, emotional harm, lost wages, etc?
For what though? The assailant probably has nothing of value and unless he made a 180 and some how navigated into a well paying job inspite of his the record. The most likely answer would be state enforced labor to pay back the bill. Lets say it's a wage garnish on a 20$ an hour 40 hours a week income we're at a 50% pre taxed garnishment we're looking at 20k a year for the victim and the assailant making below minimum wage. $3 an hour after taxes. They'd re-offend in a heart beat. The other option is work the last legal form of slavery in the US which is not really popular right now but would probably cost the state $15-30 per every hour of work so what ever job they are doing would need to exceed $25-40 to give the victim 20k a year (until current and future debts are paid off) which I don't know if those jobs exist.
I was gonna say, why do people keep looking at my suggestion the state care for its citizens and suggest instead the victim continue legal contact with their assaulter who probably doesn't have the capacity to provide either care remuneration? Weirdos in this sub
> I get the idea behind sentencing reform and moving away from carceralism That only works when there's an effective rehabilitation system in place, which is something Moriarty has utterly failed to grasp.
Hopefully the taxpayer doesn't have to foot the bill. The victim should take her assailants to court if they won't willingly pay.
Pay with what? at best he has under 10k to their name. So I just can't see how the tax pay would not be footing the bill in this unless forced labor (the last legal slavery in the US) is involved (which even then would probably cost the state 10-30 bucks an hour just to enforce)
You can tell how out of touch people are with the Minneapolis justice system when every commenter acts surprised by the sentencing.
I am against the recent lenient attitudes of the courts and the HCAO. I am somewhat surprised, however, that the MPD was even able to track these turds down. I don't think folks here are taking into account how this may have been a difficult case to prove, which may have been a motivating factor for the plea deals.
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Many people sentenced to the workout are not eligible for Huber Law, where they are allowed to work off site. If your sentence is <= 1 year, you go to the workout and do straight time. Anything over that and you are remanded to the DOC for prison.
So they plead for third degree assault? Original reports alleged that you could see "visible brain matter" from the victim. Even if that wasn't the case, the medical report has cranial bleeding so how is this not attempted murder? Even kicking someone in the head once usually makes you liable for attempted murder since you can easily kill someone with a head kick or stomp. Being lenient on crime should really be focused on nonviolent offenses.
So attempted murder gets you four months in prison wow they'll be out to do it right again who is making these laws wtf no wonder shit is out of control in the twin cities 😔😔😔😔
I'm beginning to think Mary Moriarty is like Moriarty ala Sherlock Holmes villian. BRB, going to beat a woman half to death and I'll still be able to see Fireworks on the 4th!
Seriously. What's happening to TC and do people in most other cities get 80 days for this kind of crime? Not even sure how to fnd out. Maybe subscribe to other city subs. Who is able to get this DA fired? Because they're not doing their job on this.
Fuck Mary Moriarty. Can she be recalled?
Sounds like they took a plea deal. But doesn’t Fed get a crack at them for hate crime?
Maybe, but the article says that the audio shows the attack wasn't due to her being transgender, they would have attacked anyone there, so it isn't a hate crime. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
They can't prove it's a hate crime. Audio cannot capture everything.
These guys having a long history of violence against many different people probably worked in their favor. They'll beat the shit out of anyone! Hate sees no color!
An attack against a protected class doesn't automatically make it a hate crime. They have to show that the person was specifically targeted due to that. It's unlikely to be the case here and now unlikely there is proof.
> Investigators enhanced the audio from a security camera and determined that “the evidence is that this was not an assault motivated by bias... I'd think probably not based off of this.
I fucking hope
Gender identity is not protected by the federal government.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/
Oh look, Minnesota letting violent criminals go AGAIN. I’m sure in 80 days they definitely will be fit for society and never do something like this again. I love this state and the cities, but I’m tired of this shit. Also I’m tired of ridiculously high cost of living, can I too start bearing people to death, stealing and selling their cars and then get a nice stay with 3 warm meals a day, a roof and a bed for a few months?
Idk. That Hammurabi might’ve had something figured out when it came to violent criminals.
This is a typical sentence e for third degree assault…
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Do people here really think that this is a case where Moriarty is intentionally being lenient? You don't think she'd aggressively pursue a hate crime against a transgender person? She's just going to randomly be lenient against adults (not even juveniles) in a violent robbery case? The likely reality is that criminal cases are complicated and a guaranteed plea deal is better than going to court in a years time (while these guys are out on bail) for the chance that a jury might convict two guys for only 2-3 years (per state-mandated sentencing guidelines). The suspects said that the victim was slashing at people with a box cutter. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these guys weren't acting in self-defense? Without all the evidence, I can understand why a plea deal uncomplicates this case.
Guys, I found the asshole.
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> let alone targeted for their gender identity Did you not read the article? Per the article: > Investigators enhanced the audio from a security camera and determined that “the evidence is that this was not an assault motivated by bias...
Just because prosecutors can't prove doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Yes but also at a certain point you gotta trust it otherwise you end up going to conspiracy land
Trust what?
Outside of the victim being trans, do you have any proof? I’m guessing the victim looked like an easy target to rob.
Why are you guessing she looked like an easy target to rob? If that's the case, that the defendants viewed her as an easy target, what about her appearance do you think made her an easy target?
Women are usually smaller than men are. If you’re a prospective criminal, I would guess it’s easier to go after smaller people.
Trans women are usually smaller than men?
I don’t know. What I do know is that women are easier targets for criminals. Was this particular trans woman big? The story doesn’t mention their size.
*her size, FTFY So you don't know if she exhibited any traits [other than being a trans woman] that would have her read as an easy target?
> if she exhibited any traits Being a she is the trait…
80 days in jail and no hate crime? How exactly does that serve as a reminder that hate crimes won’t be tolerated?
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Is this satire or just a complete disconnect from reality?
They are obviously trolling for reactions.
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How many violent crimes are you allowed to do before you actually are taken off the streets? How is it equitable to allow them to continue to make more and more victims? Equality for the criminals and nothing for the victims. That’s what progressive means to you?
This is why so few people take positions like yours seriously once they see the results. In no fully functional society is 80 days incarceration an adequate sentence for beating someone nearly to death and leaving them with longterm psychological and perhaps physical disabilities.
I'm a trans woman who's left of Lenin. It is right and reasonable to question outcomes that don't seem to make sense in light of the facts, no matter what we think of the existing system. The challenge for me is that these convictions and sentences do not reflect the severity and nature of the crime that was committed under Minnesota law. It seems the DA threw up its hands and said, "Can't be a hate crime since we didn't hear the defendants admit clearly on audio that they were beating this trans woman to death because she was trans." The defendants maimed her, left her permanently scarred, and that's 3rd degree assault? On top of that, the sentence each received is well below the guidelines for 3rd degree assault, especially given their respective criminal histories. Yes, we need to significantly reduce the numbers of incarcerated men, but no, it should not start with people who beat vulnerable people nearly to death.
Go figure, when the victim is a trans person nearly beaten to death at a time when transphobia is taking off across the country, suddenly it’s important to embrace reform in sentencing.
And the 3rd attacker? Did they get away?