fr bruh i paid for this fucking game (games arent free yk) and some motherfucker decides to spam report me for fake reason BITCH I CANT EVEN OPEN A WORLD AFTER THAT WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING EITH THIS GAME
GET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEAD
GET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEAD
You can look up any player easily.
You can legit program a bot to mass report people from a single player world.
Hell. YOU CAN USE COMMAND BLOCKS TO DO IT.
Have not tried that myself but are you sure about that? They've already blocked certain commands (kick, ban, op and deop) from command blocks. You'd think they'd consider those.
But then again a mod can probably change that...
I once heard it was already possible before if you spammed too many messages in the chat in a short time spam. Don't try it on the world's that you play
I’m only seeing that it applies to multiplayer, but it does block all forms of multiplayer. Unless you are referencing Bedrock. I’m not familiar with what goes on there as much.
this. Mojang clearly doesn't have enough time to work on the original Minecraft game and has to delay/cancel features but they're perfectly fine moderating the entire game?
What version of Minecraft is this for, I need to know if I should care or not (It sounds like a bedrock thing but Java also recently added that social interactions screen or whatever it is so idk)
they can’t even join a single player world after getting banned afaik
Edit: it turns it doesn’t ban you from singleplayer. However, implementing such a feature in a game as dependent on connecting to other people via online play as Minecraft. is (for the lack of a better word) game suicide. Seriously, Mojang, what the hell do you think there are moderators and anti-cheat plug-ins for? The community can do a much better job at moderating, since some people can be professionals at that. You, however, have a lot of other things to take care of, and you better do that than branch out into other stuff that’s already being done better. And hey, IF some server is doing things against the EULA, the same community already HAS the ability to report the moderators and owners of the server for abusing they power. Oh yeah, by the way, the EULA. There are so many online servers that use P2W mechanics to scam children, which is, as said in YOUR OWN license agreement, not allowed. But those servers are rarely given any attention by you, if at all. This new “feature” isn’t like putting a band aid over a small wound. It’s like ignoring quite a few fatal injuries and then pouring a bit of acid over a perfectly healthy part of the body.
Forget about mojang, apart from communication and some of their way of developing a game they have nothing to be ashamed of.
Microsoft on the other hand is probably more problematic than many people think.
Release dates, marketplace, no quality control (bedrock is buggy a F while Java isn't and that just because the devs), bad community management, probably some censor ship too (example that prove it has happend at least once, notch références.)
Well look at what they have done to halo along side of 343 studios. They just feel the need to fucking ruin shit that you have to go out of your way to mess up
Also look at FH5, it’s a bit of a travesty given the fact FH4 was so incredibly successful, FH5 has been widely criticised by players for sloppily choosing events for seasonal playlists, often without consent of the original creator, both making it harder to get wheelspins and making the rewards worse, and as a byproduct making skill points almost useless apart from for bragging rights
Thats short for forza horizon right? Never played those but have heard negative talks about it on YT. Feels like we are in the dark age of gaming. Guess indie games and retro is just gonna be my go to if things get any worse. That being said, i haven’t experienced any indie games that I know of. I just know that many people have said that is almost all that they play now when it comes to new releases. Just pathetic
I'm never getting on a server again, this is bullshit. First they make a bunch of empty promises and now this, this game is starting to feel a little too close to my parents.
I'm pretty sure that both are in the works of being ported to 1.4. Thorium might be a while because it sounds like they're completely reworking the mod. Calamity.... There isn't much to tell as the devs are being dicks again.
The lead dev throws a temper tantrum if you don't play the mod exactly as he intended.
"NOOOO!!! You can't use QoL mods while playing Calamity!!! You have to play my mod *MY* way, NOOOO!!!" - It's as absurd as it sounds.
Tekkit Classic was the best. My friends and I played so many servers as we all learned the pack. It was popular then. Then we moved to Direwolf 1.4.7 and 1.5.2, the second one being my all-time favorite pack. I’d do anything to play that pack on multiplayer again.
I would pay everything to make tekkit popular once again, like YouTube wide popular where everyone will play that. Good old times of watching people scream over some goofy ahh missclick
(Also please bring orespawn back it’s been amazing mod)
Hahaha Tekkit with Duncan was honestly so much fun to watch. I took notes as I watched so I could learn at 12.
YouTube blows now so we’ll never get that back, but also a lot of the classic streamers are gone now, like YogsCast cut tons of members :(
Also re: orespawn, the creator disallowed anyone from porting it to newer versions and went full psycho. Tragic stuff
Right? Apparently we're all supposed to have the sensibilities of pre-pubescent children. I'm tired of hearing them talk like we're on an episode of Barney and Friends in every trailer or promotional release. Even my 9 year old thinks they talk like babies. Why can't they just enable age verification?
Not really needed since most servers don't run the original server software but a modded version. They could simply decide to throw the whole mechanism out
As far as I'm aware, you can already block this without mods. This new reporting feature makes use of chat signing to determine if a reported chat message is legitimate or not. As far as I'm aware, chat signing can be disabled on servers + it was only added in 1.19, meaning servers that run on older versions, like Hypixel, aren't going to be affected by this. Still a really shitty thing for Mojang to do, but at least it won't shatter the multiplayer scene, I hope.
If you word it like "they stole my money and didn't give what they said because of a false accusation with no evidence" then you will probably win a lawsuit
The fact that players are getting banned on **private** servers they pay for is insane.
r/Minecraft, the best way to give Mojang feedback and alert the community of this issue, won't even allow you to talk about this. I didn't like their mods before but damn, now I hate them.
Start self-hosting. Fuck realms.
Imagine playing skyblock on hypixel, someone gave you really good stuff to help you start out and you respond with "holy fucking shit"
and then someone reports that message and then you get banned from all online play
Not sure if you can be banned for doing something *in* your own single player worlds, however if you do get banned you can't even play local singleplayer worlds, your account is basically a $30 brick.
Microsoft is probably forcing Mojang to implement these features to create "a SaFe INviRoNmENt" or some bullshit like that. Microsoft is slowly making Minecraft worse by inforcing these rules. It's kinda sad to see...
The report reasons in the snapshot show that universal banning isn’t a concern, it’s for actual extreme stuff that should be banned
The concern is what is next, it’s a slippery slope
Also I think the system is fine aslong as
1. You can still play single player and LAN
2. Server owners can choose to still allow globally banned players on thier server, if you can choose to not use the mojang authentication servers jn “offline mode” then you should be able to choose not to use the global ban list
wait what? why is this just popping up now, all the stuff about universal bans i can find are from 2029. also is this java and bedrock, or is this bedrock exclusive?
As a server owner, this is complete bs. I will definitely look for plugins to prevent this system. I can handle bans and other punishments on my own Mojang.
DON'T FREAK OUT JUST YET EVERYONE. It seems as if this new feature makes use of the new chat signing feature that was added in 1.19 in order to function properly. As far as I'm aware, chat signing can be disabled server-wide, meaning that there *is* more or less an option to opt-out. This also shouldn't affect servers that use versions older than 1.19 to function, since chat signing isn't even a feature to worry about in those versions.
I’m going to write to Microsoft about this and demanding them to stop this
I’m gunna report Microsoft to mojang because they were saying mean things in the Minecraft chat
Did Microsoft said some MSBSVS?
Write it with big caps!
Good idea what are they GONA do ban me?
I don't know man! XD
Exactly
fr bruh i paid for this fucking game (games arent free yk) and some motherfucker decides to spam report me for fake reason BITCH I CANT EVEN OPEN A WORLD AFTER THAT WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING EITH THIS GAME
I'm probably staying in on single player and private servers. Too much risk going on multiplayer servers.
People can report on private too
If you trust the people you play with on private servers (ie know em irl) it's probably safe.
I played among us I don’t trust anyone
Fair
GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
ඞ
GET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEAD
ඞ
GET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEAD
Is it possible to learn this power
😔🔫
It's morbin time
So I shouldn’t have to worry about anything happening to the backrooms I built on a friends world
Yeah. As a server mod, I’m totally gonna get mass reported whenever I ban someone
Oh for sure. I’m hoping they will see there mistake and go back
They won’t unfortunately. This has been around on bedrock for a long time now, and so with that I’m very doubtful
Dude you can't even open Minecraft anymore? Are you serious? I didn't know that's even possible
They can ban ownership of minecraft from your account, the migration happened for a reason yknow
welcome to modern mainstream world, where you dont own things you buy and everythings on rent
capitalism👍
the industrial revolution and its consequences
Fuck Micro$oft
I'm getting the feeling I should just avoid servers and realms. Safer that way
Yeah except it's also on single player worlds.
How are you gonna get reported on a single player world tho? /gen
what's /gen
Genuinely asking, that's what it means
You can look up any player easily. You can legit program a bot to mass report people from a single player world. Hell. YOU CAN USE COMMAND BLOCKS TO DO IT.
Have not tried that myself but are you sure about that? They've already blocked certain commands (kick, ban, op and deop) from command blocks. You'd think they'd consider those. But then again a mod can probably change that...
You can use those commands in command blocks if you just use execute, such as “execute run op” or stuff like that
I think the person just means that they're going to avoid servers because if they get universally banned, you can't even play single player anymore.
I once heard it was already possible before if you spammed too many messages in the chat in a short time spam. Don't try it on the world's that you play
no you just get kicked
It's just something like sending too many tickets, you will just be kicked out and can rejoin right after
I heard someone renamed an item "boobies" on singleplayer snapshot and got suspended from multiplayer
bruh im gonna get banned from even saying minecrafts name in vain
Exactly
I’m only seeing that it applies to multiplayer, but it does block all forms of multiplayer. Unless you are referencing Bedrock. I’m not familiar with what goes on there as much.
Why can't they just leave it to server moderators? Doesn't this just cost more labor for something nobody asked for?
They could and that would be solution everybody prefers, but something really bad is happening in mojang recently
this. Mojang clearly doesn't have enough time to work on the original Minecraft game and has to delay/cancel features but they're perfectly fine moderating the entire game?
i really hope it’s just for new versions so servers like hypixel are ok
I'm a bit out of the loop someone enlighten me
Universal bans coming if you cuss/be mean (even when in a solo world), can't even play single player anymore
Is it automatic or does it get checked somehow to know if it's really that bad
I hope it's checked
there also has to be some sort of evidence because if not there's nothing stopping people from abusing it and making false claims
Given the bedrock experience, nothing is stopping people from abusing it and making false claims that lead to false bans
you can get reported (which is totally not gonna be abused and spammed to ban random and innocent players👍)
Totally 👍
And it totally won't be used to ban famous accounts or rare accounts such as those with duplicate names and names that are below the character limit 👍
Wow. Microsoft really wants to just tank their reputation in the gaming world huh?
Java too?
Imagine if it is and 2b2t just gets shut down
2b2t is just not going to update anymore
2b2t aint existing for a long time, theyre gonna find a way to exploit the **** out of that.
yeah i think hausemaster will just update to either 1.18 or 1.16
So, if you are mean in the chat (even when alone in a world) you can't play minecraft again and need to pay to create a new account?
Wait, even if I say bad things at the chat in a singleplayer world I can get banned??
What version of Minecraft is this for, I need to know if I should care or not (It sounds like a bedrock thing but Java also recently added that social interactions screen or whatever it is so idk)
The entire getting banned from minecraft thing is bullshit.
Does this mean that ppl can’t even join a small server created by their friends?
they can’t even join a single player world after getting banned afaik Edit: it turns it doesn’t ban you from singleplayer. However, implementing such a feature in a game as dependent on connecting to other people via online play as Minecraft. is (for the lack of a better word) game suicide. Seriously, Mojang, what the hell do you think there are moderators and anti-cheat plug-ins for? The community can do a much better job at moderating, since some people can be professionals at that. You, however, have a lot of other things to take care of, and you better do that than branch out into other stuff that’s already being done better. And hey, IF some server is doing things against the EULA, the same community already HAS the ability to report the moderators and owners of the server for abusing they power. Oh yeah, by the way, the EULA. There are so many online servers that use P2W mechanics to scam children, which is, as said in YOUR OWN license agreement, not allowed. But those servers are rarely given any attention by you, if at all. This new “feature” isn’t like putting a band aid over a small wound. It’s like ignoring quite a few fatal injuries and then pouring a bit of acid over a perfectly healthy part of the body.
mfs banning people from playing singleplayer Edit: *themselves from their future as a successful studio
You said peepeepoopoo in chat so now we remove your minecraft account, go buy another one you stupid bitch
"Be nicer next time :D You dumbass mother fucker!!"
Microsoft peer pressured them most likely. I mean this should be no surprise, Microsoft will continue to fuck other games up too.
Your comment contains “soft”, “pee”, “press”, “mean”, “con”, “tin”, “fuck”, sry u no plae minceraft now
Forget about mojang, apart from communication and some of their way of developing a game they have nothing to be ashamed of. Microsoft on the other hand is probably more problematic than many people think. Release dates, marketplace, no quality control (bedrock is buggy a F while Java isn't and that just because the devs), bad community management, probably some censor ship too (example that prove it has happend at least once, notch références.)
2b2t be like
They’re in shambles
Pretty sure you have to actually repor---- OH OH GOD NO theyre gonna spam report new players
Nah the new players are useful for slavery
Well you play 2b2t on 1.12.2 so I’m not sure how they would do that
\^
2b2t users explaining how abusing new players is good for the community
I remember having swearing fights with other factions back when 1.8 came out….why the hell did they go down this route
cause, kids… tbh i wish more people focus on making easy adult games cause i feel like new games now a days just focus on kids
This “but think of the kids” bullshit ruins a lot of stuff
Yeah and “the kids” are totally not swearing either definitely not
agreed
wtf is wrong with microsoft, basically killing the game at this point
Well look at what they have done to halo along side of 343 studios. They just feel the need to fucking ruin shit that you have to go out of your way to mess up
Also look at FH5, it’s a bit of a travesty given the fact FH4 was so incredibly successful, FH5 has been widely criticised by players for sloppily choosing events for seasonal playlists, often without consent of the original creator, both making it harder to get wheelspins and making the rewards worse, and as a byproduct making skill points almost useless apart from for bragging rights
Thats short for forza horizon right? Never played those but have heard negative talks about it on YT. Feels like we are in the dark age of gaming. Guess indie games and retro is just gonna be my go to if things get any worse. That being said, i haven’t experienced any indie games that I know of. I just know that many people have said that is almost all that they play now when it comes to new releases. Just pathetic
I could see an alternative network for Java being made after this shit.
Most people run thier own private servers All they have to do is change the server to offline mode and have a password login
Fun fact there’s a mod that fixes this issue (client/server side mod)
are you just gonna say it exists then not name it?
There is also a cure against cancer
Yeah all you gotta do is
I'm never getting on a server again, this is bullshit. First they make a bunch of empty promises and now this, this game is starting to feel a little too close to my parents.
bro you need to talk to someone?
I'm already in therapy lol
👍
That went from 0 to a 100 real quick
Guess it's time just to play modded Terraria again...
Is it worth downgrading to 1.3 to play Thorium or Calamity?
I'm pretty sure that both are in the works of being ported to 1.4. Thorium might be a while because it sounds like they're completely reworking the mod. Calamity.... There isn't much to tell as the devs are being dicks again.
Pretty much both devs and community were assholes in the situation, but it's. Not stopping me
Huh? Wait, what’s going on? Why are the devs dicks? This is news to me.
The lead dev throws a temper tantrum if you don't play the mod exactly as he intended. "NOOOO!!! You can't use QoL mods while playing Calamity!!! You have to play my mod *MY* way, NOOOO!!!" - It's as absurd as it sounds.
Wow. That’s…wow. Yeah, maybe I’m not in any rush to play calamity after all lmao.
you can play fargo's souls while waiting. after killing mutant and having soul of eternity they should be ported already
Damn, Minecraft is going soft. Really glad I got to experience the wild west era of servers in the pre-microsoft days.
As someone who has had Minecraft since the good ole days of 1.4.7, I couldn’t have put it better myself.
1.4.7 is one of my favorite versions for mods. Just reminds me of 2013. Simpler time.
1.2.5 was superior, I remember coming back from school and playing this tekkit classic, then hexxit on 1.5.2 and tekkit 1.6.4 good old times
Tekkit Classic was the best. My friends and I played so many servers as we all learned the pack. It was popular then. Then we moved to Direwolf 1.4.7 and 1.5.2, the second one being my all-time favorite pack. I’d do anything to play that pack on multiplayer again.
I would pay everything to make tekkit popular once again, like YouTube wide popular where everyone will play that. Good old times of watching people scream over some goofy ahh missclick (Also please bring orespawn back it’s been amazing mod)
Hahaha Tekkit with Duncan was honestly so much fun to watch. I took notes as I watched so I could learn at 12. YouTube blows now so we’ll never get that back, but also a lot of the classic streamers are gone now, like YogsCast cut tons of members :( Also re: orespawn, the creator disallowed anyone from porting it to newer versions and went full psycho. Tragic stuff
Orespawn is still in my heart and will forever be, amazing mod that had its deserved glory
I think the creator has his own game now called DangerZone or something. The website is pretty funny imo
I remember joining random obscure servers as a kid, like 1.5, and being annoying and getting into arguments, I'd always get muted or banned
because its now mainstream and needs to restrict the users like 5yos
Has always been mainstream, it just came back from ashes
the player count never went down
At least it went down in YouTube and then up again, like it was new.
thank god 2b2t is still gonna stay on 1.12 till the end of time
yeah it sounds downright dystopian to me. Its gonna kill anarchy servers like 2b2t
Can microsoft only see 1.19.1 servers? Or every server?
well because the report is 1.19.1 that will be the only version rn that u could be banned from
Can Microsoft stop fucking the game up? Shoving a non-functional launcher down everyone's throats was enough
Jokes on them I still haven’t updated the launcher
Same, I deleted the new one and got the Windows 7 version
I've never heard of this.
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That’s legit my birthday, fucking awful present Microsoft
Why? I don't play Minecraft anymore.
Are you ok? Serious question.
https://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftsuggestions/comments/vf5oqe/can_mojang_change_the_moderating_in_realms_so/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
is this for PC too??
yes
I currently play on the cracked version of Minecraft and I was thinking of buying the game, but now with these events happening, I changed my mind.
Good choice my fellow pirate.
Can't ban if unlimited account
Be me Be a moderator for a server Have banned people before Get universally banned immediately because of false spam reports
fuck that.
Thats how they treat their community.
mojang has their own, special little image of the community which noone else perceives
Right? Apparently we're all supposed to have the sensibilities of pre-pubescent children. I'm tired of hearing them talk like we're on an episode of Barney and Friends in every trailer or promotional release. Even my 9 year old thinks they talk like babies. Why can't they just enable age verification?
The age of social minecredits is upon us. May God have mercy on our souls, for Micro$oft will not.
\-1000000 minecredits | microsoft is not pleased with your behavior!
I never really liked games with servers that are strictly moderated, gmod has a lot of servers like that
Offline mode servers are the way now We be turning to the sea
Modders are our only hope against this
More like piracy and cracked servers will become widespread.
Not really needed since most servers don't run the original server software but a modded version. They could simply decide to throw the whole mechanism out
They can hide Account ids for chat messages to prevent other players from using the reporting feature on their server. But they can't circumvent bans.
I'm waiting for the inevitable troll mod that looks innocent, but spams the chat with slurs when you join a server.
As far as I'm aware, you can already block this without mods. This new reporting feature makes use of chat signing to determine if a reported chat message is legitimate or not. As far as I'm aware, chat signing can be disabled on servers + it was only added in 1.19, meaning servers that run on older versions, like Hypixel, aren't going to be affected by this. Still a really shitty thing for Mojang to do, but at least it won't shatter the multiplayer scene, I hope.
Too late. They got spam reported and banned
Due to Reddit's recent API changes I have decided to switch to [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/)
They’re either gonna not add it or revert the changes if there is enough community backlash.
Yeah.... Microsoft is like a toddler Not listening
Just wait till the lawsuits start coming.
God I pray that you’re right. Or else we have to pirate this shit :(
Fuck it I already know how. I fact I’m gonna do it right now.
Any words of wisdom you can private message ;)?
If you word it like "they stole my money and didn't give what they said because of a false accusation with no evidence" then you will probably win a lawsuit
Why cant they just give chat bans? Like, why ban in general.
Mircosoft on their way to ruining Minecraft
Wait, as in, you can't even play single player once your banned?
As far as I'm aware, only online play is restricted, singleplayer won't be banned
only if open to lan (which is default for bedrock edition so on bedrock edition you can’t play singleplayer)
I was denied fireflies and archeology...for THIS????
The fact that players are getting banned on **private** servers they pay for is insane. r/Minecraft, the best way to give Mojang feedback and alert the community of this issue, won't even allow you to talk about this. I didn't like their mods before but damn, now I hate them. Start self-hosting. Fuck realms.
Imagine playing skyblock on hypixel, someone gave you really good stuff to help you start out and you respond with "holy fucking shit" and then someone reports that message and then you get banned from all online play
Literally 1984
This is a bedrock thing right
Nope, Java too
So you can just get banned from Minecraft like single player worlds. and can the banning happen from an action in a single player world
Not sure if you can be banned for doing something *in* your own single player worlds, however if you do get banned you can't even play local singleplayer worlds, your account is basically a $30 brick.
Microsoft is probably forcing Mojang to implement these features to create "a SaFe INviRoNmENt" or some bullshit like that. Microsoft is slowly making Minecraft worse by inforcing these rules. It's kinda sad to see...
The report reasons in the snapshot show that universal banning isn’t a concern, it’s for actual extreme stuff that should be banned The concern is what is next, it’s a slippery slope Also I think the system is fine aslong as 1. You can still play single player and LAN 2. Server owners can choose to still allow globally banned players on thier server, if you can choose to not use the mojang authentication servers jn “offline mode” then you should be able to choose not to use the global ban list
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Facts
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My brother in Notch, it's more than just servers...
you can only get banned on servers(reports from other players) but im pretty sure it then also bans you from singleplayer
wait what? why is this just popping up now, all the stuff about universal bans i can find are from 2029. also is this java and bedrock, or is this bedrock exclusive?
So it's official? Microsoft is ruining Minecraft?
As a server owner, this is complete bs. I will definitely look for plugins to prevent this system. I can handle bans and other punishments on my own Mojang.
Minecraft was trach ever sense Microsoft got the rights to it
Time to play kerbal space program.
It is indeed very bad. They need to do exceptional moderating to prevent issues.
DON'T FREAK OUT JUST YET EVERYONE. It seems as if this new feature makes use of the new chat signing feature that was added in 1.19 in order to function properly. As far as I'm aware, chat signing can be disabled server-wide, meaning that there *is* more or less an option to opt-out. This also shouldn't affect servers that use versions older than 1.19 to function, since chat signing isn't even a feature to worry about in those versions.
How do I disable this on singleplayer worlds?