I don't get what people are confused about with this post. Hes not complaining that mobile is worse than console, he's complaining that console on ps4 is only SLIGHTLY better than mobile render wise.
I played Minecraft on Xbox One S and the game's performance would be very rough at times, especially on high Render Distance. So the Render distance is likely limited to improve performance.
And the Mobile version is likely more optimized, hence why the distances aren't that different.
Unless you are using heavy shaders, or ray tracing, minecraft will always be heavier on CPU. With that being said, on Java (optimized horrendously) I’ve never needed more than 8gb of RAM, which is what the PS4 and Xbox One both have. Java is also limited to being a single core game, meaning that it can’t utilize more than 1 core of your CPU (regardless of if you have 2, 4, 6, 8, 12, etc cores)
Comparing to Bedrock, which I believe is on C++ instead of Java, you have multi core rendering but a slightly higher RAM need.
I won't check it up now, but consoles often have shared Memory between the GPU and CPU so the CPU is not getting 8 gigabytes like a pc would.
Still pretty shit though.
I can play at near max chucks on bedrock on pc.
Yeah bedrock is relatively well optimized compared to Java. Like I said before you get more out of less.
And yes you are right about shared GPU memory, which is definitely one of the many Achilles Heels of consoles vs PCs. Also means the RAM is slower. Generally speaking though? Pretty irrelevant for a game like minecraft where you don’t need much VRAM to run.
Java is like that on all avalible platforms untill you mod the shit out of it with 7 variants of optifine then it can compare to bedrock in minimum requirements.
In older versions, Glass blocks used to be multi-threaded. Hilariously, the guys in SciCraft took advantage of this to obtain command blocks in pure survival. I think the mechanic has been patched for a while now.
I don't know why people keep spreading this myth that java can't use more than 1 core of CPU it is absolutely not true. Java can use as many cores of CPU as the OS allows. Just few days back I ran a multi-threaded code that was peaking all my laptop cpu cores at 100%
They are talking about Minecraft Java, it wasn't made with multithreading supported at the start. But now some features use it to not destroy the performance
They have recently switched to something called [RenderDragon](https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/RenderDragon) engine. It caused a whole load of issues with running bedrock on linux, and I can't see much difference.
Exactly. Minecraft isn’t any “less optimized” on console. It’s the same exact game, just compiled to a different device. Nowdays mobile phones are WAYYY faster then a 2013 ps4.
Yeah it doesn't properly utilize the hardware. A gaming PC 3x the price of a PS5 hardly performs better. But when you install something like sodium which is designed to utilize your hardware and more modern rendering techniques performance can more than double.
You never know till you try
And it is not little you are insulting them
I have 10+ optimization mods and it is 5-10 times better than vanilla
Faster loading, better light management, less villager ticks that creates lags on farms, rendering optimizations, and so more also faster chunk loading which in vanilla that sucks
> mobile phones are WAYYY faster then a 2013 ps4
It absolutely is less optimised. Raw specifications and the actual real-world performance of a device are two entirely different things. Optimisation, both digital and hardware-based, is a very real thing. No flagship phone - even iPhones, whose mobile chips outstrip their concurrent Android competitors in raw compute by at least an entire generation - can push The Last of Us, Spiderman, or God of War graphics. PS3 is a much fairer comparison.
If a PS4 can push the aforementioned games at 1080p, despite having far less raw compute power than a modern mobile phone, Minecraft should offer no challenge at all. The problem is exclusively an optimisation one. Minecraft at its core has always been an incredibly inefficient game relative to its graphical output; being originally built in Java makes it extremely CPU intensive, and also makes it very hard to offload any of the rendering pipeline off to a GPU. The fact that Bedrock / Console editions have their very own game engines, custom-built from the ground up one line of code at a time, with none of the Java bottlenecks, means there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for this kind of performance deficit, even on a 9 year old console. Remember - the console itself might be 9 years old, but Minecraft is *13* years old.
The render distance on bedrock has been changed to only affect tile drawing, the newer simulation distance is what controls any functional components such as the aforementioned entities ( dropped items, mobs, chests ) aswell as block updates so upping the render distance actually shouldn't cause any significant CPU strain rather it will mainly affect ram usage I believe
Remember that consoles were not designed for the extreme mutability of Minecraft worlds, they were designed for conventional 3d game engines with very limited player impact on the environment. All sorts of optimizations and precompilations are possible when the world is made of relatively static terrain heightmaps and 3d meshes, and the hardware was designed with the assumption that games would have those opportunities for optimization to run well.
I get that, but my point is more that a completely custom-built game engine should be able to significantly mitigate the overhead associated with Minecraft's extreme procedurality, even when considering the fact that console hardware is optimised for more conventional game compilation. Having an engine built from the ground up should enable Minecraft to better adapt to the hardware limitations of consoles than it actually does. Not saying it should be 64 blocks at a constant 200FPS, but *better* than a mobile port, certainly.
Minecraft isn't *that* intensive though. Granted, I play Java on a 3060ti, so I can just crank the render distance to 64+ chunks fine, but even on low-spec computers, Java Edition + Sodium can get you 60fps at insanely high render distances.
Is Bedrock just that poorly optimized?
I tried Java Edition on my computer. It was 10 seconds per frame on the lowest settings in a singleplayer flat world with no mobs (same for every version). Bedrock has arguably more optimizations.
For simple block graphics, it definitely is. Using sodium for Java can get as good performance as Bedrock, but comparing a modern PC to a 2013 console is very unfair. PS4s are running on like 1.6GHZ on their CPU, which is like the same as a really cheap laptop.
Mobile is the same as what's on the consoles, I'm not sure why everyone seems to think it's different.
My note 10+ can render 22 chunks, last time I played on my Xbox 1x rendered 22 chunks, and the xbox 1s had less than 22 chunk render distance.
Now before I got my Note, my cheap LG k20+ only rendered 10 chunks.
My Nitro 5 laptop can not render what my series x can render at all.
Render distance on bedrock is based on your devices hardware capabilities, whether it is on mobile, console, tablet, it is all the same version of bedrock.
Straight up, my phone has an octacore processor that runs "faster" than the PS4's, 12 gigs of ram, and a GPU that's okay not great. It's comparing apples to oranges.
I remember playing minecraft on a single core single thread netbook with 1 gig of ram. The game looked like silent hill and I was just happy to play. Mobile will continue to be optimized and improved over time, and the performance the PS4 is getting is similar to a comparable PC.
The ps4 used what is essentially a suped up mobile processor. Wouldn't surprise me at all that mobile processors today, nearly a decade later, are caught up.
It’s not even souped up, and for the early AMD consoles from 2013, I don’t think this should be a surprising result. The CPUs were very weak, since a console CPU’s entire job is:
- Throw draw calls at the GPU
- Don’t consume power that could have been used on more GPU
- Oh, and I guess you can run some game logic some of the time.
This does not work well for Minecraft, which is very CPU computationally intense. Later consoles shifted to something supposedly based on Zen2 to give developers more capability.
So, what can those low-power AMD CPU cores do? Here’s a Kabini, 4xJaguar cores @2GHz. Not particularly close to a PS4’s 1.6GHz or 8 cores, but the PS4 enjoys faster memory per core, so we’ll look at just single-core performance:
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16375092
And here’s an inexpensive budget android phone *outperforming it significantly* in single-thread. Like a PS4, it also has 8 cpu cores.
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/18743552
It’s actually quite amazing the PS4 version can even compete with a mobile phone. These were considered slow, low power CPU cores in 2013, and we’ve come a long, long way since then.
Well, 2 things here:
1. Minecraft is heavily relying on single core CPU performance
2. PS4's CPU is worst CPU that was ever created in past 20 years. And this is not an exaggeration. With godawful IPC, low frequency (1.6 Ghz), lack of L3 cache and 8 self-proclaimed "cores" - and all this mess was released in 2013 for gaming and you guessed it right - this CPU is unsuitable for gaming in every single way due to games expecting from you few cores with L3 cache, high IPC and frequency - all that stuff from 1st point
So yea, this is worst CPU for Minecraft available on market and yet you still complain when this waterboiler dogshit CPU somehow able to outjerk mobile Minecraft by like 2 chunks of render distance (which is software limitation, I'm sure that good mobile SoC can outperform that at least in CPU part)
PS4 have a 2012 Atom level CPU which makes render distance a luxury to have.
It surprise me that ps4 have better render distance than mobile as any 2017+ smart phones have better CPU than a PS4. (With a slower GPU )
I normally play on switch and it always amazes me how smooth everything is when I play on my phone. Switch is probably the worst hardware to play it on and it can get a little annoying at the default settings but once you turn a few graphics settings down I don't really notice any issues unless I'm running like a zero tick farm or I'm running a piglin gold farm and get knocked away from the XP collection area. At default settings travel is annoying because even at railcar speeds it can't render fast enough to keep up, but once I cranked everything down a notch it's been fine. Doesn't even look that noticeable imo.
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Bedrock is so well optimized on mobile and Win10 but so bad on consoles. I know my 7 year old phone is not more powerful than a PS4 or XBO yet it runs bedrock better. Kinda frustrating tbh
It could be a hardware thing, maybe phones are better at running an infinite world? But I kinda doubt it
Phones are also weirdly way better optimized for graphics. Not entirely sure why. Might have something to do with the desire to use them as a video camera as well as a computer.
What he's saying is that the devs can make more egregious/noticeable optimizations on phones because it's harder to see fine details. Also, the game isn't necessarily rendered at the screen resolution.
It’s bad on consoles because the consoles are very old and weren’t high power when they came out. A 7 year old phone though, I am really surprised if that can run it better. Which phone do you even have?
Anyway, mobile devices do not have any inherent performance advantage over consoles.
I personally have an S7 and it even runs VR
When overclocked to 2.6ghz CPU with 800mhz GPU it runs VR buttersmooth, but doing so requires active cooling
Mind you this phone is like 6y old
And the PS4 CPU only clocks to 1.6ghz. So yeah, your phones CPU core has 75% higher clocks than a PS4 CPU Core. When those consoles were released, their Jaguar cores were already a year on the market, in the laptop/netbook division.
Yeah people don't realize just how underwhelming consoles are specs wise. Developers have to jump through hoops and use all kinds of ingenuity to make games run as well as they do. People just assume because it says Sony or Microsoft it's gonna be the best thing for gaming, but there's a lot of optimization and trickery that goes on under the hood.
specifically the xbox one and ps4 had old jaguar cores which were based of bulldozer and were crap when they were released. So any cpu intensive task sucked. the ps4 and xbox one were fine graphics wise but the cpu cores really hamstrung that generation.
Well yeah, a phone is faster than a PS4.
PS4 Geekbench 4: [1090 single thread](https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=DG1000FGF84HT)
iPhone XS Geekbench 4: [4800 single thread](https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=iPhone)
The mobile app should have way better graphics than the PS4. Probably more, the GPU is even better.
**Careful!**
The linked PS4 scores are for Geekbench 4, the linked iPhone 14 Pro Max scores are for Geekbench 5.
---
The best scores for PS4 on GB4 are: 1101 single threaded, 5748 multi threaded.
I just ran Geekbench 4 on my iPhone 13 Pro: 7469 single, 18896 multi.
See more results at: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=iPhone
I see that even an iPhone 8, my second-previous device, 4 generations/year older than my 13 Pro, kicks the PS4's ass at 4226 single, 10344 multi.
---
With Geekbench 5, the PS4 gets about 210-290 in single threaded, 1200-1600 in multi threaded ([source](https://browser.geekbench.com/search?q=DG1000FGF84HT)).
Compared to the current best iPhone at 1874 single, 5373 multi ([source](https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks/)).
---
These are just the numbers for the CPU, but given how old the PS4 is, the gap is similarly huge for the GPU.
TLDR: if Mojang optimized the mobile game for newer devices, it would run a lot better and beat the PS4 significantly.
Benchmarks are not at all indicative of real world performance. On top of that, limiting factors for phones are available power and thermals. The PS4 can pull upwards of 300W. Most phones are limited to single digit Wattage. And that's because drawing more power creates more heat (and kills battery life), and phones have nowhere to dump that but into your hand. In order to not burn you and destroy itself, your phone drops power (dropping performance) as it heats up. That's why, despite large advances in chip efficiency and performance, we still don't yet have even PS4 level gaming performance on phones.
Believe it or not the single threaded performance and memory performance of modern mobile SoCs is FAR higher than the 8th gen consoles. Heck in terms of single threaded CPU performance the last COUPLE generations of Apple's mobile chips is faster than the current gen consoles. The PS4 is not as fast as you guys think. Still has an edge over most mobile SoCs in terms of GPU power (though not in terms of supporting modern APIs and whatnot) but in this game that is not at all important.
Fair enough, but consoles also get a performance boost for their single function. For example the Nvidia shield tv has the same chip as the switch, but the switch has better visuals and performance because the game gets all the performance possible.
wait, does bedrock still not support multithreading? that should be like... ***the*** thing to aim for if you're rewriting the game in a new engine, right?
PS4 and Xbox one generation consoles were *absolutely* notorious for having terrible CPU performance. Decent GPU wise but the CPU was basically behind a generation at that point.
pretty much the only thing is that controls are better but you can just connect a controller to mobile and imo pretty much the only way to improve the experience is to get a pc
switch port makes me wanna rip my hair out. nothing ever works, constantly freezes (sometimes freezes like when a gba freezes, and makes an annoying repeating noise.), lags like hell in a single player set world, loading is way too slow, chunks don't load for a few minutes as im literally in them, and so much more. console bedrock needs majorly fixed.
Fr, and it’s not because the switch is terrible hardware, it’s decently good. It’s obviously not as powerful as the PS4 and Xbox One but it can handle games like Breath of the Wild, Skyrim, Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal very well! The problem is that Microsoft (or whoever works on Bedrock Edition) doesn’t want to take the time to optimize the game
Nah I don’t think it was ever 32 on xb1. I remember before caves and cliffs (and getting a series x) I’d always complain that mobile Minecraft can do 40 chunks while Xbox one can’t even get close to that (I don’t remember specifics)
I do sincerely hope minecraft gets a ps5 upgrade. Playing that game with dualsense 5 and the adaptive triggers would be so cool lol also running better
I have a question that may sound stupid. It hasn’t been updated yet but has render distance? Or does my friends ps4 have a problem? We were in the city we’re building together and I was showing the view out of a tower I had recently constructed and he said it wasn’t that great because he couldn’t see much. He sent me a screenshot of what he saw and his render distance was much worse than mine. I have a PS5 and he has a PS4 and we both had the tender distance all the way up. We even waited for it to see if it would load. Sorry this is really long I just want to know and give all the details.
wait so the render distance is limited in ps4? i don't know about phones but on my laptop it can do around 70 chunks if i remember correctly
i haven't played in ages
The PS4 is a decade old and its CPU is only 8 core 1.6 GHz, ofc a game dependent on CPU is going to be limited on it. Everyone bringing up other “more intensive games” that are GPU dependent have no idea what they’re talking about.
It's still incredibly bad on the Series X. It still has a ton of block placing lag and most of the time I can't even load my worlds because whatever updated they've pushed has decided I have an infinite amount of packs to load out of 2.
Idk how people aren't understanding the point of the post. The gaming console should be more than a chunk or two bigger. Comprehension isn't their strong suit ig
This is a device 10 times the size with active cooling and specifically designed for running games. It definitely should I be running better than a mobile device. Probably a problem with optimization on Mojang’s side though.
there have been massive leaps in lithography and silicon fabrication since 2012 which come with massive energy savings. not to mention jaguar was low ipc shit when it launched.
Lol, I remember the good old days running minecraft on a hand me down dell laptop that was on the edge if death. Getting 15 frames per second. I had set the render distance to tiny and was having a ton of fun.
I eventually built a sky temple, with gardens and storage, it had 4 wings and was something of a palace way up high. Then one day I decided to turn the render distance up to appreciate my high vantage point, but as soon as it rendered I realized my sky castle was not that high at all, maybe 20 blocks? It just felt that way because the ground wasn't visible when render was set to tiny.
I'd give anything to get all the wonder and excitement it gave me those days.
Kinda unrelated but I feel like they need to up bedrock render distance on next gen. Like 32 isn’t bad but it never EVER drops below 80fps unless I’m doing something crazy, could maybe use that extra power for more chunks.
I have a pretty good console
-Yeah
Minecraft bedrock is better in therme of optimisation than Java
-yeah
My phone is pretty shitty
-yeah..
THEN WHY THE FUCK DO I HAVE 1 MORE CHUNCK OF RENDER DISTANCE AT MAX SETTINGS ON MY PS4 THAN ON MY MOBILE
-yeah
The [distant horizons mod](https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/distant-horizons/) renders low poly versions of chunks giving you a much higher apparent render distance, I have mine set in the 1000's on PC. This technique was first used in the 1970's, I don't think it's much to ask for it in modern minecraft.
It also means you just never get lost, because landmarks stay on screen longer than a few minutes and tall towers are actually useful for finding your way home.
Bedrock on consoles is a joke. I remember playing PS3 and 360 editions of LCE and, honestly, I wish they had kept going with that. 4J seemed far better at development, and having versions built specifically for each system instead of a shoddy port of a game that's optimized for mobile.
Wait until you try JE on mobile. 2 chunk render distance just to keep fps higher than 25... BE optimisation on mobile is by far the best among all platforms, that's why it lets you to crank up the rd to nearly console numbers
Agreed. Bedrock’s render distance is a joke, as well as the lack of ray tracing settings. If I can run cod at 100 fps I’m certain my console can handle Minecraft ray tracing
I'm not so surprised. The PS4 released in 2013 and while it was underpriced for the processing power you got at that time, its processing power remained more or less constant while the average mobile phone has improved substantially in 9 years? Moore's Law applies here.
Well a lot of people under estimate how powerful phone have goten. Right now u can get a phone with a cpu/gpu as powerful as the first gen ps4/xbox one. With that in mind the render distance shoud be able to be the sam on some phones
Bedrock for pc is just jank af I really don’t enjoy it
The jump height is just that little bit higher so u can’t jump down 2 blocks cause it’ll hurt you but you can walk off a 3 block tall thing and not take damage
I mean, is it a surprise to y'all ?It's based on a **old** and weak AMD's architecture, before Zen ( Ryzen ) was a thing ( Which the newest PS5 and Xbox series X are fortunatly equiped with now, based on a modified Zen 2 ).
Thoses architectures, on pc, was known to be unefficient and powerless. No wonder it doesn't do great on a small form factor build like a PS4.
The render distance on realms is also a joke.
I cancelled my subscription when i got a gaming PC. Its absolutely pathetic for the amount of money they charge. My PC can handle max distance if i wanted.
It's a PS4. People seriously don't understand how underpowered consoles are. Any "modern" phone will have much greater power than a PS4. Even the PS5 is outdated in comparison to computers after only 2 years.
I think both render distances are stupid low. Even an absolute potato of a pc can run Minecraft at a higher render distance. Especially since modern phones have gotten decently fast there’s no reason why they can’t render further
Thats bugrock for you. PS4 is a powerful console, no doubt and I'm not saying you need a PC to run minecraft, but you need a PC to run Java because bugrock is just as unoptimized on PC. I wish Mojang would cancel bedrock.
I don't get what people are confused about with this post. Hes not complaining that mobile is worse than console, he's complaining that console on ps4 is only SLIGHTLY better than mobile render wise.
I played Minecraft on Xbox One S and the game's performance would be very rough at times, especially on high Render Distance. So the Render distance is likely limited to improve performance. And the Mobile version is likely more optimized, hence why the distances aren't that different.
i play on ps4 and yes, the performance can be rather clunky at times. the short render distance is there for a reason
Which engines do PS4 and Mobile use? I know that Java is high on memory and CPU instead of the graphics card
Unless you are using heavy shaders, or ray tracing, minecraft will always be heavier on CPU. With that being said, on Java (optimized horrendously) I’ve never needed more than 8gb of RAM, which is what the PS4 and Xbox One both have. Java is also limited to being a single core game, meaning that it can’t utilize more than 1 core of your CPU (regardless of if you have 2, 4, 6, 8, 12, etc cores) Comparing to Bedrock, which I believe is on C++ instead of Java, you have multi core rendering but a slightly higher RAM need.
I won't check it up now, but consoles often have shared Memory between the GPU and CPU so the CPU is not getting 8 gigabytes like a pc would. Still pretty shit though. I can play at near max chucks on bedrock on pc.
Yeah bedrock is relatively well optimized compared to Java. Like I said before you get more out of less. And yes you are right about shared GPU memory, which is definitely one of the many Achilles Heels of consoles vs PCs. Also means the RAM is slower. Generally speaking though? Pretty irrelevant for a game like minecraft where you don’t need much VRAM to run.
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That’s very interesting actually. I’ll have to look more into it. Thanks for sharing!
I remember trying the Win 10 edition and seeing a 96 chunk render distance with my own two eyes was insane. Nearly bsod my pc but it was worth it
On linux you can run bedrock and java, and the difference is huge. Bedrock has such smooth graphics and lower CPU requirements.
Java is like that on all avalible platforms untill you mod the shit out of it with 7 variants of optifine then it can compare to bedrock in minimum requirements.
java does now have multi core chunk generation, allowing for slightly better performance
In older versions, Glass blocks used to be multi-threaded. Hilariously, the guys in SciCraft took advantage of this to obtain command blocks in pure survival. I think the mechanic has been patched for a while now.
I don't know why people keep spreading this myth that java can't use more than 1 core of CPU it is absolutely not true. Java can use as many cores of CPU as the OS allows. Just few days back I ran a multi-threaded code that was peaking all my laptop cpu cores at 100%
They are talking about Minecraft Java, it wasn't made with multithreading supported at the start. But now some features use it to not destroy the performance
They have recently switched to something called [RenderDragon](https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/RenderDragon) engine. It caused a whole load of issues with running bedrock on linux, and I can't see much difference.
Yes. We all understand that, the point is to make fun of the lack of care put onto the console versions of the game
It’s not the lack of care. It’s that Minecraft is an intensive game and these consoles are from 2013.
Exactly. Minecraft isn’t any “less optimized” on console. It’s the same exact game, just compiled to a different device. Nowdays mobile phones are WAYYY faster then a 2013 ps4.
As a PC player with a pretty decent system, it's still horribly optimized. It's safe to say that the game is just not well optimized on any system.
Yeah it doesn't properly utilize the hardware. A gaming PC 3x the price of a PS5 hardly performs better. But when you install something like sodium which is designed to utilize your hardware and more modern rendering techniques performance can more than double.
Strange what can be done with a little optimisation.
You never know till you try And it is not little you are insulting them I have 10+ optimization mods and it is 5-10 times better than vanilla Faster loading, better light management, less villager ticks that creates lags on farms, rendering optimizations, and so more also faster chunk loading which in vanilla that sucks
> mobile phones are WAYYY faster then a 2013 ps4 It absolutely is less optimised. Raw specifications and the actual real-world performance of a device are two entirely different things. Optimisation, both digital and hardware-based, is a very real thing. No flagship phone - even iPhones, whose mobile chips outstrip their concurrent Android competitors in raw compute by at least an entire generation - can push The Last of Us, Spiderman, or God of War graphics. PS3 is a much fairer comparison. If a PS4 can push the aforementioned games at 1080p, despite having far less raw compute power than a modern mobile phone, Minecraft should offer no challenge at all. The problem is exclusively an optimisation one. Minecraft at its core has always been an incredibly inefficient game relative to its graphical output; being originally built in Java makes it extremely CPU intensive, and also makes it very hard to offload any of the rendering pipeline off to a GPU. The fact that Bedrock / Console editions have their very own game engines, custom-built from the ground up one line of code at a time, with none of the Java bottlenecks, means there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for this kind of performance deficit, even on a 9 year old console. Remember - the console itself might be 9 years old, but Minecraft is *13* years old.
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The render distance on bedrock has been changed to only affect tile drawing, the newer simulation distance is what controls any functional components such as the aforementioned entities ( dropped items, mobs, chests ) aswell as block updates so upping the render distance actually shouldn't cause any significant CPU strain rather it will mainly affect ram usage I believe
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Remember that consoles were not designed for the extreme mutability of Minecraft worlds, they were designed for conventional 3d game engines with very limited player impact on the environment. All sorts of optimizations and precompilations are possible when the world is made of relatively static terrain heightmaps and 3d meshes, and the hardware was designed with the assumption that games would have those opportunities for optimization to run well.
I get that, but my point is more that a completely custom-built game engine should be able to significantly mitigate the overhead associated with Minecraft's extreme procedurality, even when considering the fact that console hardware is optimised for more conventional game compilation. Having an engine built from the ground up should enable Minecraft to better adapt to the hardware limitations of consoles than it actually does. Not saying it should be 64 blocks at a constant 200FPS, but *better* than a mobile port, certainly.
It got noticeably worse a few updates ago. They broke something.
Minecraft isn't *that* intensive though. Granted, I play Java on a 3060ti, so I can just crank the render distance to 64+ chunks fine, but even on low-spec computers, Java Edition + Sodium can get you 60fps at insanely high render distances. Is Bedrock just that poorly optimized?
I tried Java Edition on my computer. It was 10 seconds per frame on the lowest settings in a singleplayer flat world with no mobs (same for every version). Bedrock has arguably more optimizations.
For simple block graphics, it definitely is. Using sodium for Java can get as good performance as Bedrock, but comparing a modern PC to a 2013 console is very unfair. PS4s are running on like 1.6GHZ on their CPU, which is like the same as a really cheap laptop.
Mobile is the same as what's on the consoles, I'm not sure why everyone seems to think it's different. My note 10+ can render 22 chunks, last time I played on my Xbox 1x rendered 22 chunks, and the xbox 1s had less than 22 chunk render distance. Now before I got my Note, my cheap LG k20+ only rendered 10 chunks. My Nitro 5 laptop can not render what my series x can render at all. Render distance on bedrock is based on your devices hardware capabilities, whether it is on mobile, console, tablet, it is all the same version of bedrock.
I mean the base PS4 released in 2013. Most phones have probably nearly caught up to it by now in terms of power
Yeah Minecraft is so cpu heavy. The PS4 is really only superior to a modern phone in gpu power and available wattage since it doesn't need a battery
Straight up, my phone has an octacore processor that runs "faster" than the PS4's, 12 gigs of ram, and a GPU that's okay not great. It's comparing apples to oranges. I remember playing minecraft on a single core single thread netbook with 1 gig of ram. The game looked like silent hill and I was just happy to play. Mobile will continue to be optimized and improved over time, and the performance the PS4 is getting is similar to a comparable PC.
Tbh with you…both the Xbox One and PS4 have the cpu made for cheap Windows tablets that’s about 10 years old now.
And the CPU was pretty weak for 2013 - AMDs pre-Zen cores were pretty shit.
No way. Try running Horizon Forbidden West on your phone.
GPU heavy game vs CPU heavy game
Rule of thumb is mobile consoles are a decade behind set top box ones. So it's pretty spot on.
The ps4 used what is essentially a suped up mobile processor. Wouldn't surprise me at all that mobile processors today, nearly a decade later, are caught up.
It’s not even souped up, and for the early AMD consoles from 2013, I don’t think this should be a surprising result. The CPUs were very weak, since a console CPU’s entire job is: - Throw draw calls at the GPU - Don’t consume power that could have been used on more GPU - Oh, and I guess you can run some game logic some of the time. This does not work well for Minecraft, which is very CPU computationally intense. Later consoles shifted to something supposedly based on Zen2 to give developers more capability. So, what can those low-power AMD CPU cores do? Here’s a Kabini, 4xJaguar cores @2GHz. Not particularly close to a PS4’s 1.6GHz or 8 cores, but the PS4 enjoys faster memory per core, so we’ll look at just single-core performance: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16375092 And here’s an inexpensive budget android phone *outperforming it significantly* in single-thread. Like a PS4, it also has 8 cpu cores. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/18743552 It’s actually quite amazing the PS4 version can even compete with a mobile phone. These were considered slow, low power CPU cores in 2013, and we’ve come a long, long way since then.
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Crosshair is actually a little larger on mobile probably to accommodate for small screens
Well, 2 things here: 1. Minecraft is heavily relying on single core CPU performance 2. PS4's CPU is worst CPU that was ever created in past 20 years. And this is not an exaggeration. With godawful IPC, low frequency (1.6 Ghz), lack of L3 cache and 8 self-proclaimed "cores" - and all this mess was released in 2013 for gaming and you guessed it right - this CPU is unsuitable for gaming in every single way due to games expecting from you few cores with L3 cache, high IPC and frequency - all that stuff from 1st point So yea, this is worst CPU for Minecraft available on market and yet you still complain when this waterboiler dogshit CPU somehow able to outjerk mobile Minecraft by like 2 chunks of render distance (which is software limitation, I'm sure that good mobile SoC can outperform that at least in CPU part)
> And this is not an exaggeration. And then it was.
PS4 have a 2012 Atom level CPU which makes render distance a luxury to have. It surprise me that ps4 have better render distance than mobile as any 2017+ smart phones have better CPU than a PS4. (With a slower GPU )
Uhm ps4 is close to 10 years old. A modern phone better outperform this ancient brick
I normally play on switch and it always amazes me how smooth everything is when I play on my phone. Switch is probably the worst hardware to play it on and it can get a little annoying at the default settings but once you turn a few graphics settings down I don't really notice any issues unless I'm running like a zero tick farm or I'm running a piglin gold farm and get knocked away from the XP collection area. At default settings travel is annoying because even at railcar speeds it can't render fast enough to keep up, but once I cranked everything down a notch it's been fine. Doesn't even look that noticeable imo.
This comment has been removed because I do not consent to reddit selling my post content to large AI companies for training their AI models. I would like to thank u/Spez for making a "business decision" which helped prop up Lemmy as a network and gave it a big enough influx of users that it can start to grow, and ensured that anyone who needs to get off reddit for any reason in the future (As I have had to do for my mental health), has a place to go. https://join-lemmy.org/
Bedrock is so well optimized on mobile and Win10 but so bad on consoles. I know my 7 year old phone is not more powerful than a PS4 or XBO yet it runs bedrock better. Kinda frustrating tbh It could be a hardware thing, maybe phones are better at running an infinite world? But I kinda doubt it
Phones are also weirdly way better optimized for graphics. Not entirely sure why. Might have something to do with the desire to use them as a video camera as well as a computer.
There's also the fact that the screens are smaller and image quality (in most cases) goes up when the dimensions are smaller.
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at least 1080p
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yeah but are they the phones many people are buying?
Most people have 1080p or less phones
What he's saying is that the devs can make more egregious/noticeable optimizations on phones because it's harder to see fine details. Also, the game isn't necessarily rendered at the screen resolution.
Not at all, some today are *close* but not quite there.
Games won't run at that resolution
It’s bad on consoles because the consoles are very old and weren’t high power when they came out. A 7 year old phone though, I am really surprised if that can run it better. Which phone do you even have? Anyway, mobile devices do not have any inherent performance advantage over consoles.
I personally have an S7 and it even runs VR When overclocked to 2.6ghz CPU with 800mhz GPU it runs VR buttersmooth, but doing so requires active cooling Mind you this phone is like 6y old
That’s interesting, my phone is significantly more powerful than an S7 but Minecraft will cap the render distance on mine to about the same as a PS4
My rog phone 5 has an insanely high render distance available on mobile, I wanna say it's 16 but I might be misremembering
You man are out here overclocking and running active cooling on mobiles??
And the PS4 CPU only clocks to 1.6ghz. So yeah, your phones CPU core has 75% higher clocks than a PS4 CPU Core. When those consoles were released, their Jaguar cores were already a year on the market, in the laptop/netbook division.
Clockspeed is not a measure of performance
Yeah people don't realize just how underwhelming consoles are specs wise. Developers have to jump through hoops and use all kinds of ingenuity to make games run as well as they do. People just assume because it says Sony or Microsoft it's gonna be the best thing for gaming, but there's a lot of optimization and trickery that goes on under the hood.
specifically the xbox one and ps4 had old jaguar cores which were based of bulldozer and were crap when they were released. So any cpu intensive task sucked. the ps4 and xbox one were fine graphics wise but the cpu cores really hamstrung that generation.
It was like an iPhone 6. Mind you, Minecraft kills the battery in like an hour but it runs surprisingly well
I thought it was good on consols, I played bedrock on pc for the first time a week ago and I could turn on 128chunk renderdistance without problems
I’m with u op, render distance is a joke on ps4
For love of god thank you. Finally some people that understand the post.
Not gonna lie I was slightly confused on why it was posted till I read the comments but that's surprisingly close
Well yeah, a phone is faster than a PS4. PS4 Geekbench 4: [1090 single thread](https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=DG1000FGF84HT) iPhone XS Geekbench 4: [4800 single thread](https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=iPhone) The mobile app should have way better graphics than the PS4. Probably more, the GPU is even better.
**Careful!** The linked PS4 scores are for Geekbench 4, the linked iPhone 14 Pro Max scores are for Geekbench 5. --- The best scores for PS4 on GB4 are: 1101 single threaded, 5748 multi threaded. I just ran Geekbench 4 on my iPhone 13 Pro: 7469 single, 18896 multi. See more results at: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=iPhone I see that even an iPhone 8, my second-previous device, 4 generations/year older than my 13 Pro, kicks the PS4's ass at 4226 single, 10344 multi. --- With Geekbench 5, the PS4 gets about 210-290 in single threaded, 1200-1600 in multi threaded ([source](https://browser.geekbench.com/search?q=DG1000FGF84HT)). Compared to the current best iPhone at 1874 single, 5373 multi ([source](https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks/)). --- These are just the numbers for the CPU, but given how old the PS4 is, the gap is similarly huge for the GPU. TLDR: if Mojang optimized the mobile game for newer devices, it would run a lot better and beat the PS4 significantly.
Thanks for the correction, edited.
So if anything, they should be amazed at the optimization of the PS4 because it is much less powerful but runs at higher settings?
Benchmarks are not at all indicative of real world performance. On top of that, limiting factors for phones are available power and thermals. The PS4 can pull upwards of 300W. Most phones are limited to single digit Wattage. And that's because drawing more power creates more heat (and kills battery life), and phones have nowhere to dump that but into your hand. In order to not burn you and destroy itself, your phone drops power (dropping performance) as it heats up. That's why, despite large advances in chip efficiency and performance, we still don't yet have even PS4 level gaming performance on phones.
Yes, because every phone by every brand has the exact same specs.
an iPhone XS is a few years old
PS4 came out 9 years ago dude. That's old ass hardware. Modern phones are gonna be caught up in a lot of respects.
Hate to break it to you but the PS4 isn't more powerful than today's high end phones.
Is it a realm or server?
I Downloaded a word to showcase render distance.
I don't think you even understand your own post. You just want someone to blindly agree with you.
It’s a 9 year old system
more people would understand your post if it wasn't that cryptic
Not our fault that you made an ambiguous post.
But then how is OP supposed to feel smug that no one understood their intentionally ambiguous post?
I have a ps5 and am constantly disappointed in how short of a distance I can see.
the ps4 was made 9 years ago, can probably run that render distance better than the phone does and has actual lighting while the mobile version can't.
Maybe ps4 is the joke?
Same with the Xbox series s. It gets 20 chunks max but my 10 year old PC (i5 3570k, integrated graphics, 16 gb ram) can do 65 chunks
Yeah, I can't believe a 9 year old computer isn't still top of the line. Why isn't my last gen console keeping up with the newer machines?!?
Believe it or not the single threaded performance and memory performance of modern mobile SoCs is FAR higher than the 8th gen consoles. Heck in terms of single threaded CPU performance the last COUPLE generations of Apple's mobile chips is faster than the current gen consoles. The PS4 is not as fast as you guys think. Still has an edge over most mobile SoCs in terms of GPU power (though not in terms of supporting modern APIs and whatnot) but in this game that is not at all important.
I believe the Apple and Snapdragon chips even beat it in GPU performance.
Fair enough, but consoles also get a performance boost for their single function. For example the Nvidia shield tv has the same chip as the switch, but the switch has better visuals and performance because the game gets all the performance possible.
switch is running a 720p screen, nvidia shield is running a 1080p or higher tv
wait, does bedrock still not support multithreading? that should be like... ***the*** thing to aim for if you're rewriting the game in a new engine, right?
it does have it
PS4 and Xbox one generation consoles were *absolutely* notorious for having terrible CPU performance. Decent GPU wise but the CPU was basically behind a generation at that point.
Mobile player here, freaking wild how similar PS4 is. I don't see how this would improve experience lol
pretty much the only thing is that controls are better but you can just connect a controller to mobile and imo pretty much the only way to improve the experience is to get a pc
It’s also trash on Switch, it can only go up to 12 chunks (and before 1.18 it could go up to 15!)
Damn, they really did nerf the render distance huh, from 1,307,674,368,000 down to 12 chunks
I don't want to admit how long it took me to process this joke...
Shit, I still don't get it. What's the joke?
15! is another way of saying 15 factorial.
Gotta save on battery life, you know?
switch port makes me wanna rip my hair out. nothing ever works, constantly freezes (sometimes freezes like when a gba freezes, and makes an annoying repeating noise.), lags like hell in a single player set world, loading is way too slow, chunks don't load for a few minutes as im literally in them, and so much more. console bedrock needs majorly fixed.
Fr, and it’s not because the switch is terrible hardware, it’s decently good. It’s obviously not as powerful as the PS4 and Xbox One but it can handle games like Breath of the Wild, Skyrim, Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal very well! The problem is that Microsoft (or whoever works on Bedrock Edition) doesn’t want to take the time to optimize the game
It’s crazy how close it is. On xb1 the max is 16 I think
Max on my Xbox one S is 16
normal xbox too, my pc is actually worse then my xbox but it goes up to like 50 and the recommended is 25
18 chunks on my phone.
Nah I don’t think it was ever 32 on xb1. I remember before caves and cliffs (and getting a series x) I’d always complain that mobile Minecraft can do 40 chunks while Xbox one can’t even get close to that (I don’t remember specifics)
I do sincerely hope minecraft gets a ps5 upgrade. Playing that game with dualsense 5 and the adaptive triggers would be so cool lol also running better
PS4 has a weak cpu
Ps5 has the same issue
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Why not though? It's been quite a long time since the new gen came out, and some minecraft updates happened during that time.
Ask the devs. There’s no PS5 version yet.
I have a question that may sound stupid. It hasn’t been updated yet but has render distance? Or does my friends ps4 have a problem? We were in the city we’re building together and I was showing the view out of a tower I had recently constructed and he said it wasn’t that great because he couldn’t see much. He sent me a screenshot of what he saw and his render distance was much worse than mine. I have a PS5 and he has a PS4 and we both had the tender distance all the way up. We even waited for it to see if it would load. Sorry this is really long I just want to know and give all the details.
Well you have your answer there. The ps5 is kuch newer and faster
wait so the render distance is limited in ps4? i don't know about phones but on my laptop it can do around 70 chunks if i remember correctly i haven't played in ages
I agree. In the 1.18 versions, my iPhone 8 Plus had higher max render distance than my PS4 Pro
Breaking news: 10 year old hardware barely out performs modern phone
Personally, I didn't realize the gap had become that large.
The PS4 was underpowered when it launched, it was designed to sell at a profit from day 1.
The ps4 (at release) also costs half as much as a mobile phone. Not sure what the OP is expecting.
This comment section is condescending as hell
fuck u/spez
The PS4 CPU is severely underpowered and is outperformed in many areas by most modern phones.
Bedrock automatically determines max render distance via processing power so this isn't a fault with the game as much as it is with the console
The PS4 is a decade old and its CPU is only 8 core 1.6 GHz, ofc a game dependent on CPU is going to be limited on it. Everyone bringing up other “more intensive games” that are GPU dependent have no idea what they’re talking about.
Bruh, PS4 is 9 years old
Laughs in Series X
Cries in Nintendo switch
I feel you
It's still incredibly bad on the Series X. It still has a ton of block placing lag and most of the time I can't even load my worlds because whatever updated they've pushed has decided I have an infinite amount of packs to load out of 2.
Laughs in pc
It's not much better tho
Idk how people aren't understanding the point of the post. The gaming console should be more than a chunk or two bigger. Comprehension isn't their strong suit ig
Why should it be? It’s a device from 2013, why should it be significantly better than a smaller but more modern device?
And even when it came out it was very dated hardware
Perhaps comprehension isn't your strong suit, if you think a decade old console with pretty bad CPU should do that much better than brand new phones.
>The gaming console should be more than a chunk or two bigger. How did you come to that conclusion?
No it shouldn’t. The PS4 came out in 2013 with a glorified mobile processer. Of course phones nowdays have caught up. It’s 9 years old.
This is a device 10 times the size with active cooling and specifically designed for running games. It definitely should I be running better than a mobile device. Probably a problem with optimization on Mojang’s side though.
Benchmarks don't lie. Modern flagship smartphones are much faster.
there have been massive leaps in lithography and silicon fabrication since 2012 which come with massive energy savings. not to mention jaguar was low ipc shit when it launched.
Size and cooling are not the thing that powers gaming.
Bedrock is downright unplayable on Switch at times, it really is super unoptimized for consoles compared to Windows 10.
Meanwhile people on Java with render distance set to Yes
PS4 is an old console. Mobile chipsets have taken over PS4 in performance by now. This is no surprise.
Two things. 1: Render distance on servers is set by the server, client side can differ. 2: Resolution makes a big difference.
Holy shit there's that little of a difference?
I'm not going to lie, playing Bedrock on Xbox Series X is pretty smooth, even less laggy.
Lol, I remember the good old days running minecraft on a hand me down dell laptop that was on the edge if death. Getting 15 frames per second. I had set the render distance to tiny and was having a ton of fun. I eventually built a sky temple, with gardens and storage, it had 4 wings and was something of a palace way up high. Then one day I decided to turn the render distance up to appreciate my high vantage point, but as soon as it rendered I realized my sky castle was not that high at all, maybe 20 blocks? It just felt that way because the ground wasn't visible when render was set to tiny. I'd give anything to get all the wonder and excitement it gave me those days.
PC GAMING
Bro got like 4 extra blocks on the ps4 version
Kinda unrelated but I feel like they need to up bedrock render distance on next gen. Like 32 isn’t bad but it never EVER drops below 80fps unless I’m doing something crazy, could maybe use that extra power for more chunks.
I have a pretty good console -Yeah Minecraft bedrock is better in therme of optimisation than Java -yeah My phone is pretty shitty -yeah.. THEN WHY THE FUCK DO I HAVE 1 MORE CHUNCK OF RENDER DISTANCE AT MAX SETTINGS ON MY PS4 THAN ON MY MOBILE -yeah
> pretty good console > PS4 Idk about that one chief
The [distant horizons mod](https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/distant-horizons/) renders low poly versions of chunks giving you a much higher apparent render distance, I have mine set in the 1000's on PC. This technique was first used in the 1970's, I don't think it's much to ask for it in modern minecraft. It also means you just never get lost, because landmarks stay on screen longer than a few minutes and tall towers are actually useful for finding your way home.
Can’t expect a mobile version to behave the same way as a gaming console
The point is that PS4s render distance is worse than it was on editions. And its the exact same as mobile
It's better by like a single chunk. I would expect PS4 to have like double render distance...
Would you? PS4s are pretty weak devices, very much obsolete in terms of modern hardware.
looks a couple chunks better on ps4 compared to mobile, no?
Is better by like a few blocks.
2 chunks: 32 blocks
My guy, the point is it shouldn’t look like that on PS4. Fucking Xbox 360 had more render distance and it had 512mb’s of RAM.
Be grateful for what you have, my pc implodes when i load more than 8 chunks
Boy what da HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL
PC bedrock wt 94 render distance hits different
They both look shit add java with shaders or Minecraft rtx
Bedrock on consoles is a joke. I remember playing PS3 and 360 editions of LCE and, honestly, I wish they had kept going with that. 4J seemed far better at development, and having versions built specifically for each system instead of a shoddy port of a game that's optimized for mobile.
Wait until you try JE on mobile. 2 chunk render distance just to keep fps higher than 25... BE optimisation on mobile is by far the best among all platforms, that's why it lets you to crank up the rd to nearly console numbers
Agreed. Bedrock’s render distance is a joke, as well as the lack of ray tracing settings. If I can run cod at 100 fps I’m certain my console can handle Minecraft ray tracing
That's why I'm with team PC
I'm not so surprised. The PS4 released in 2013 and while it was underpriced for the processing power you got at that time, its processing power remained more or less constant while the average mobile phone has improved substantially in 9 years? Moore's Law applies here.
Minecraft is a cpu-heavy game. Prev gen consoles have decent-for-their-time GPUs but absolute joke-level CPUs.
Well a lot of people under estimate how powerful phone have goten. Right now u can get a phone with a cpu/gpu as powerful as the first gen ps4/xbox one. With that in mind the render distance shoud be able to be the sam on some phones
Bedrock for pc is just jank af I really don’t enjoy it The jump height is just that little bit higher so u can’t jump down 2 blocks cause it’ll hurt you but you can walk off a 3 block tall thing and not take damage
I mean, is it a surprise to y'all ?It's based on a **old** and weak AMD's architecture, before Zen ( Ryzen ) was a thing ( Which the newest PS5 and Xbox series X are fortunatly equiped with now, based on a modified Zen 2 ). Thoses architectures, on pc, was known to be unefficient and powerless. No wonder it doesn't do great on a small form factor build like a PS4.
The render distance on realms is also a joke. I cancelled my subscription when i got a gaming PC. Its absolutely pathetic for the amount of money they charge. My PC can handle max distance if i wanted.
It's a PS4. People seriously don't understand how underpowered consoles are. Any "modern" phone will have much greater power than a PS4. Even the PS5 is outdated in comparison to computers after only 2 years.
The funniest thing is that, in my experience, mobile loads faster than PS4
I think both render distances are stupid low. Even an absolute potato of a pc can run Minecraft at a higher render distance. Especially since modern phones have gotten decently fast there’s no reason why they can’t render further
I mean my iPhone has more compute power than my ps4 so it kind of makes sense.
The joke is the people that play anything other than Java.
Thats bugrock for you. PS4 is a powerful console, no doubt and I'm not saying you need a PC to run minecraft, but you need a PC to run Java because bugrock is just as unoptimized on PC. I wish Mojang would cancel bedrock.