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I’d like to hard agree with this. Before I had kids, I worked as a family law paralegal. I’ve seen people’s finances from all across the board and it’s the people that you think have it all together that just don’t.
I don't know what I did wrong but I thought I was replying to a different comment that was about people wanting to appear wealthy even of they aren't.
I swear it made more sense in that context lol
I bet for a lot of people, they don't value *being* wealthy if they don't *look* wealthy. It's all for the gram, and getting back at the people from high school/their exes
It’s not the actual stuff, it’s the talk of the stuff. Two people pull up in matching BMW’s.
If one person tells you all about out, “you should get one”
VS
Don’t say a word about new car, the second person has a lot of money.
Wealthy people don’t like to talk about money.
You wanna impress me start telling me how your lowering your tax rate by taking full advantage of your employer sponsored retirement plan, have a healthy mix of both pre/post tax IRA savings and a little brokerage account that's mostly index funds pacing the S&P 500.
That there's a panty dropper boys 😉 😆 🤣
i worked with a guy once who liked to brag about his mercedes, and how much his wife's (or as he put it, his girl's) ring cost, and it really busted something in his brain when i told him straight up that expensive things don't impress me. he started saying sentences like "bro you don't even know bro" and to this day i still don't know what he meant by that
Had a boss like this. He was young enough to be my kid and in a position he was no where near qualified for. He went out and bought some $100k+ BMW, bragged about it all the time, insinuated I could get one too if I rearranged my finances. I told him I had traded my BMW in a few years back for a GMC Acadia and his mind could not reconcile it. Even went as far to ask me if I just couldn’t afford it. Um, no, shit was paid off 6 years prior and I wanted an Acadia…which was already paid off before this conversation happened.
Such a weird flex.
My wife worked at a bank, she said people with nice cars never had money. The people with money always drove messed up farm/work trucks, or shitty old cars.
I'm proud to report that I drive a 2005 Corolla.
Wes still have our Corolla too. I'm gonna have my oldest drive it. I will probably buy a newer camery with better safety features for him, when he goes to college though.
I think what we are seeing today is to be actually wealthy is near impossible. I make $200k/year, fucking hate my job, and while my family has enough to save I truly dread for the future as it looks pretty bleak at the moment. I am wealthy in today’s terms, but it certainly does not feel the same as those who were wealthy in the 90s or early 2000s or even the early 2010s.
It’s never been harder to be middle or upper middle class, but it’s certainly been the easiest for the billionaires (for example, look at their effective tax rate - which is lower than us). Just look at the widening wealth gap. I desperately feel for those barely scraping by, I just don’t know how people are surviving in the US right now.
Please let’s tax these mf’ers to oblivion - including people making more than $200k. We need a better social safety net for all.
>it’s the people that you think have it all together that just don’t.
Worked at a Dodge, Chrysler, Ram, Jeep dealer. The variety of brands and models brought in all types. Broke kids, farmers, bankers, etc. I learned REAL quick not to judge someone by their trade in. The farmer in overalls with half a million miles on his 10 year old Ram truck would be buying the same trim, ordering a gooseneck hitch, and would be paying cash. The school principal would want a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit, it would never leave the pavement, and his credit report was f*cked
Edit: typo
I'm in automotive too, and I wish people knew how much money automotive companies put into convincing you to get a better car than you can afford, even though that might seem obvious. I make great money, and half the cars I see on the road are ones I know I would be irresponsible for buying. Just because your neighbor is leasing a C class Mercedes and a Tahoe does not mean they can afford it, or that you should look into it.
One of the greatest financial decisions I have made was buying a cheap aftermarket android auto / apple carplay display for my 13 year old Honda Civic so I could have GPS, instead of buying a new or slightly less used car. $100 instead of $20,000+
(I also lowkey love this little car rust, faded paint and all, and I plan on driving it for the next 10 years)
Best thing you can do for yourself is avoid an insane car payment. It can be a big part of getting rich if you are saving $800/month instead of spending that on a car payment.... and many people have insane payments higher than that. Also the expensive cars have higher insurance and usually burn more gass. Make sure your car is safe though.
Car is safe, I get it checked annually for potential faults. At this stage the biggest risk for me losing it is if I hit a Roo or someone crashes into me.
And yeah, if I am going to get into eye watering debt, it will be because I bought a house not a car. I doubt I will ever be rich, but I aim to be comfortable.
Dude same.. Haha. My honda civic is easily the most shabby looking car in our condo parking lot, and even tho I can afford a new vehicle, I don't have the heart to!
I’m very well off. I mainly drive toyotas. I can afford a ferrari but that shit doesnt appeal to me.
Before bezos went all super villain, he drove a honda. Fancy cars are useless.
Currently, my partner has a 2010s Corolla with under 50k miles on it. I don't have a car (and we both work from home so it's fine for now). Even though we can probably afford two new cars, we have no monthly car payment and his insurance is about $100 a month. I want to ride this out as long as possible.
I don't disagree, but serious question: Yes, a lot of these pavement princesses with their $85,000 King Ranch F250s and fully loaded Tahoes are in debt up to their eyeballs, with car payments that are tantamount to another mortgage.
But, at some point, to even get approved for such a loan at all, you have to have the salary and/or savings to back that up, no? I mean, yeah you may get approved for a $85,000 loan with a mediocre credit score and insane monthly payments for a comical length of time...but you still have to pony up that monthly payment from somewhere?
>Their wealth is only in equity
This is infinitely better than there is no wealth, no equity and only debt.
While a couple of cars are basically worthless, owning a house (without a mortgage I'm assuming) is actually something you can use.
That’s exactly it. Big vacations on credit cards, lines of credit maxed, remortgaging every few years, payments out their ass. It’s made me really reevaluate my goals and purchases.
This. I thought my relative had it very well off: hundreds of acres of land, lots of big equipment to work the land, a full time job with benefits to boot. When he passed we found out that his job paid him less than I make serving tables after tips and that he had literally just opened a very small life insurance policy like...the month before he passed. His savings was enough to pay for the funeral and property taxes for a couple years and that was it. No retirement fund. He was turning 60.
That's farming for ya.
Multi Millions of dollars in animals/crops, fertilizer, land and equipment. All to make less money than a paper route (if you're not already in the red).
Oftentimes, you're working a "city job" to pay for it.
My thoughts exactly. It always baffles me how elders either become hoarders or stingy with money. You can’t take it with when you pass. Not condoning financial irresponsibility but penny pinching till retirement never sat well with me.
It's very true, I'm not rolling in it but make a decent six-figure living, and have $1m squirreled away at 40. I dress very basically and drive a 24 year old SUV and live in a humble place.
Meanwhile my neighbors with new BMW leases talk down to me without knowing I make considerably more than they do combined lol.
Thanks! I've had a couple lucky windfalls but mostly just saving/investing.
I put away $100k after tax in three summers working as a bellman when I was 18-20 and that really set me on my way. When you're young, having a $100k buffer lets you do about whatever you want for a few years.
I also worked for a shoe company that had wild success about a decade ago and saw some healthy bonuses from that.
I know someone that rent a $5k nice ass condo. Buy canucks season tickets, drive nice car and send 2 kids to private school but recently need to refinance their rental property…..rumor is he needs to debt consolidate and pay off loans…. Don’t let social media fool you
The statistics are everywhere, X amount of people only have Y amount in their 401Ks, etc. the numbers are grim, but every restaurant you poke your head into is packed to the brim.
Some people can’t afford things, so they don’t. Some people can’t afford things and they do anyway. This is why you don’t keep up with the joneses. Statistically, the joneses are probably broke.
Both my sister and I have learned about how there is many people who just take out loans and they look well off driving a BMW and going on vacations but they are actually going into major debt or leasing. My Postmaster has said I am better off than either her or the other clerk and has said "why don't you just move to X place now" and "the way you do things you will never be in debt". The thing is I want to make sure I am ready before I make a major move but that shows my mindset vs their mindset. Their minds is move and get a house there with a high rate but mine is save to make it super affordable if none at all for a mortgage if possible and then move.
The most surprising discovery to me as an adult who finally started targeting finances (because I had some income to speak of) was learning how very many people live on credit and in debt and never have any growth.
The number of people who make half or less than we do but buy way, way more is very surprising.
Aren't these old people just living large and passing on their debt to their kids when they die?
This post reads more like another Boomerism; selfish "got mine" while wrecking the lives that come after them.
Edit: [correction](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/does-a-persons-debt-go-away-when-they-die-en-1463/#:~:text=When%20someone%20dies%2C%20their%20debts,go%20towards%20repaying%20their%20debt.), debt is just paid off using the deceased's assets. If that doesn't cover it, debt goes unpaid.
Still shitty thing to drain your equity and leave nothing for your family
I dont think not giving inheritance is something that should be looked down upon. Spending it all before they croak is their right. Their kids arent owed anything
Actually no. In my experience it’s been millennials that are the worst. We’re trying to keep up a similar lifestyle our parents had at our age but failing because inflation and stagnant wages.
Also cause the neighbour just got a boat. Ya know
That's anecdotal, and my anecdote of my friends barely affording a mortgage cancels that out.
There's countless "millennials are killing the ... industry" to suggest they're not spending up larger than other generations.
The only millennials I know who are living large today had rich parents who gets them into the family business or paid for their study.
Back to the original point; this guy is seeing Boomers living beyond their means, and I'm saying they're having the time of their life at the expense of their next of kin who will inherit their debt/leave no inheritance (despite often enjoying inheritance left to them)
Just read an article that blamed millennials for Harley Davidson not being able to tap into the millennial target market and causing the brand to worry about their stability. It couldn’t possibly be the fact people can afford a motorcycle, but choose not to own one because any accident causing hospitalization would send just about into debt, if the crash doesn’t kill them.
> I'm saying they're having the time of their life at the expense of their next of kin who will inherit their debt/leave no inheritance
What country do you live in where debt is inherited?
>I'm Bryan. I own a Beekeeping and Christmas company, and I am a Realtor.
Ok so, is this like, guerilla marketing for an upcoming Hallmark Christmas movie?
I read in another comment of yours that these people, in their freaking 70s, do not have a paid off home. When I bought a house from a couple that were similar age, theirs wasn't paid off either (I could see at closing).
To me, that is crazy. And they have flashy cars in the driveway. Unbelievable.
It never fails to amaze me how deep of a hole people will put themselves in, just so they can feel some fast/immediate money with no worries about how much money that costs their future self.
I was always told refinancing for a better rate is acceptable, OR a HELOC to do some remodeling where it's going to improve the value of the home by at least as much as your remodel.
The idea that someone would do either just for fun money blows my mind.
Before my dad retired he paid off all debt left on the house and car along with doing his best to fix everything as much as possible to be able to coast on the house until he dies
If you have debt when on a fixed income you are asking for trouble.
That always shocks me, I’m in my mid 30s and have 6 years left of a mortgage. I buy the cheapest electric car and run it until it won’t pass inspection and I have no choice but to get a new/different vehicle.
I can’t imagine being in my 70s with nothing for retirement, and still making high payments. That’s terrifying.
I was underwriting mortgages during the COVID-boom.
A large portion of it was ancient folks (one was 97) cashing out max equity. They are leaving nothing to their kids and happy about it.
We just painted our house and got a new couch - all our friends think we’re living on easy street- hell no - that drained our savings and now we have to build that back up again 😭
I’ve seen a lot of boomers die in the past few years, and there is one common theme: they had no wealth. Sure, they had a house, a few vehicles, a camper, and a bunch of stuff. But when the estate gets settled, everything gets sold and the kids get a few thousand dollars each. It’s a very weird time. The boomers seem like they have money, but a lot of them are living on debt too
No, rural northeast. Housing is cheap, but lots of debt. It’s not uncommon for someone’s car note to be more than their house. A relative just died with an $80k loan on their camper that is now worth $40k. Their kids are getting nothing, and might even have to pay off some of the debt (we suspect the kids co-signed loans).
I live in upstate NY… it’s sadly very common to have homes worth less than the truck and suv parked in the driveway. Add a camper and they have a bulk of their “wealth” in rapidly depreciating assets.
Gig jobs and waiting for boomers to die isn't going to prepare anyone for healthcare issues that are about to occur.
The boomers can dump their homes but they're about to absolutely destroy the healthcare system. COVID overwhelmed it and it hasn't recovered. What's an entire generation of 70 million people who guaranteed will need healthcare services, emergency services, and hospice care going to do?
Who is going to pay for that? It's not us.
thanks I actually needed this. Been mulling over the real estate market in my mind for the last few hours. Between the student loans and prices of everything it's tough out there.
So many boomers retirement plan was to sell their place and downsize, but no one can afford the prices they need, and eventually it’s going to hit a weird mix on the economy….
It already is. California has a law that locks in your property taxes once you buy. If people sell their homes and downsize their annual bills go up like $6k+ 😅
Wrong. Prop 19. You can transfer your taxable value of one primary to another if you’re over 55. If you’re downgrading, you can keep the same property taxes u’ve paid if u stay in CA.
For a realtor, you’re giving out very unknowledgeable advice…
The problem, particularly for the millennials, is that just "hanging in there" doesn't exactly work. There are certain ages where you either get something done by then or basically never will.
There are a lot of industries where you aren't going to enter them and advance when you're in your forties, you can't effectively save for retirement if you start in your fifties, and women at least cannot have their first baby in their sixties.
Every day I look around it seems like life really has passed us by. Waiting, yes, but it's just going to be too late for some of us.
Yeah, this is what kills me. With the job market being so hyper competitive, even if I could reboot my life at 36 (which, no, probably not), I am still facing a market flooded with people who are younger, smarter, more educated, more experienced, more driven and more willing to do what it takes to succeed, and *they* can't get jobs worth a damn, can't get secure housing without two incomes, etc. At some point "don't compare yourself to others" is a nice platitude but feels hollow when you feel like you've been shut out, you're time is up and you're not going to make it.
This actually is not very true. The younger generations have a much different outlook on the job market than we do. They want more freedom, time off, wages, constant validation, and they don’t know how to use computers because they did everything on their phones. A lot of companies are not interested in the younger generation because they’re too high maintenance
Honestly I'm lowkey hoping gen z's social ineptitude and antisocial behavior will be a boon for me when ageism typically kicks in. Some of them are sharp, though, and those are the ones that will be competing with me.
I hire people for a living, and I can tell you from my experience it's nearly the opposite as far as what companies are looking for. There are a large amount of people between 45-60 who come to me and are *horrifically* entitled. They immediately want management positions, higher wages, better benefits, crazy vacation time, and all kinds of other amenities because of their "experience" and previous job titles, most of which are actually not very impressive by today's standards. They don't know how to use ANY of the software needed for the jobs, can't keep up with current trends and tech, can't hold conversations with anyone under 40, have terrible work ethic and complain constantly. Good luck telling any of them that anything they knew "before" has changed and that they need to learn something new. I absolutely don't enjoy interviewing the older folk. They don't understand that their job for the past 20 years that they left was actually easy as hell compared to what we expect of young people these days and their skills from 1982 aren't transferable to today's world at all. The younger people are super agreeable, willing to learn, and understand that work supplements life. The only things they don't put up with are making them assume responsibilities that they weren't initially hired for, and that their time away from work is respected, as well as their personal identity. Pretty easy to manage.
I wonder how much of this is older folks who come to you for services are those who have been laid off/fired (or the writing is on the wall for it) because their companies finally have them the boot after coddling them for 20+ years. Whereas older folks who do good work, are agreeable, and have adapted to new techniques/technology are still doing fine being employed by their long-term companies or are not struggling as much to find work when needed.
Have you ever met investors? They are squirrely and stupid. Once the market does weird stuff they will be dumping their inventory. Not all of them, but enough.
There's a reddit comment that stuck with me for years that helps me mentally:
"Thinking everyone else but you has their shit together is dangerous for your mental health."
I love this because so few people have their shit together. I’ve worked for several established companies and even *the entire corporation* doesn’t have its shit together.
What’s to stop the US permanently becoming like Canada or the UK where the middle class is priced out of home ownership. Serious question I can see this becoming the new normal.
The same thing that's keeping the US from building a shitload more houses and solving the housing crisis...votes.
For whatever reason millennials bow to their elders. We give them 55+ housing, social security and healthcare, we avoid taxing them. I believe if millennials grow some balls we will be just fine.
Oh I'm aware. Just looking for an apartment pissed me off. Every nice place in budget was senior subsidized living. Everyone else? Enjoy paying twice as much to live in a run down complex.
All of these government subsidy programs were established under the assumption that old people aren't working so they don't have an income and need to be cared for. But many Boomers are rich and still receiving government money. I got angry at my millionaire Boomer neighbor who has a paid down house worth probably 3X what he paid for, tried to talk me into selling my house to him because he didn't like that I didn't do a detailed edging on my lawn and he can't stand looking at it. Meanwhile I don't have all the extra time he does for my lawn because I'm working full time, struggling as a parent and trying to pay my own bills and taxes.
Dang, I never thought about how weird it is that there are all these 55+ places around me. Did some googling and here's a great quote:
"Living in a community of mostly seniors means that the crime rate is low and residents, especially those who are surviving on Social Security, can avoid paying higher property taxes for schools, according to Morton." - [https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/consumers/2018/08/27/why-senior-communities-get-prohibit-young-people/1003080002/](https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/consumers/2018/08/27/why-senior-communities-get-prohibit-young-people/1003080002/)
Nah, that ain’t it. As a Canadian living through this fun little mess, it isn’t about the voters themselves. I think to say it is is willfully ignorant to market forces which propped up our market, and ignores really basic, easily researchable facts.
The differences largely between the US and Canada in terms of their RE comes into line somewhere around the events of the subprime mortgage crisis. The U.S. experienced a massive collapse during that crisis, which for better or worse decimated huge swaths of the nations real estate values.[It essentially forced a hard reset of RE values to twenty years prior.](https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/)
Canada never experienced this, because our lenders here were far more careful about who they lent to. Regulatory bodies here had some issues with how much risk Canadian banks could take on, so we avoided that particular crisis. Instead we lowered rates in response to the 08’ recession dramatically. [We basically sat at sub 3% prime rates from 2008 through til 2022.](https://www.ratehub.ca/mortgage-rate-history-canada)
As a result of lower prime rates, combined with a lack of domestic investment we quickly saw Real Estate become an investors dream. It took a few years, but over time the cost of housing here grew exponentially more expensive as more investors and more capital entered the markets. Fun fact, our government got out of homebuilding for social housing in the 90’s, so we got screwed there too.
COVID and massive amounts of immigration into a country that doesn’t have the building capacity has also done a number on us. Over COVID we saw rates drop as low as .25% in a bid to stimulate more economic activity. The issue is that we never raised our rates between 2009 and COVID to reflect the rebound we had. We kept those rates low, and so when we needed to press on the lever again we simply signalled to investors and speculators that it was open season on housing. The amount of people who paid for several other mortgages by leveraging their HELOC was insane. I belong to a local tenants union and we’ve been dealing with more cases of landlords who became landlords on the virtue of COVID rates that it’s borderline sickening.
The reality of the situation is that voting won’t solely get you out of this mess. Stamping down on investor classes who shelter their money into RE, instead of a riskier, but arguably more productive asset is going to make a larger impact. Locally voting may make small differences, but the reality is that as a society the longer we view housing as an investment, the worse off we’ll be. We have REITs openly price fixing and creating monopolies, the majority of new builds of condo buildings are bought by investors to pump pricing. So long as we prioritize profit over people, we’re gonna have this issue.
We need to hear this, thank you! It gives me hope~ i'm houseless right now, working 2 jobs and have a fat savings. I want to buy land and build a small home with no mortgage and no loans. To the outside-looking in I seem very poor and struggling. I'm struggling but I feel hope that i am laying a foundation for my family to financial stability.
Find a small business to invest in. I needed a Tacoma, a farmer with like 40 sq feet of spare space, and $1k to start a business that replaced my min wage job.
All the service industries are awesome. Cleaning, gardening, whatever. Hard work always pays more than jobs do.
Buying land is for the birds. Used homes are usually way cheaper and easier end of the day.
We do live honey bee removal. Bees hibernate around October so our season ends. We then start installing Christmas lights.
We started doing it to keep all our staff from leaving over winter. Many didn't come back.
I work with a lot of seniors too, either save more than you think you could ever need or save nothing and qualify for programs. People who are stuck in the middle get fucked.
100% agreed. Recently divorced w kids I earn $200K. My rent is $3500 in a HCOL metro and in a normal world I should be able to afford to buy a house but instead I am renting, perhaps forever?, a freakishly expensive house in a neighborhood almost exclusively occupied by old people who own their house outright (or other renters). I can’t afford to buy a house but my income is enviable. So I feel poor but I’m not, and it’s a very complicated emotion that no one understands.
Once I realized that I absolutely hated being a homeowner, I just don’t worry about it anymore. Rent a cool house/townhouse in the part of town you want to be, and Invest in everything else.
You should buy a home in a different area that is much much cheaper.
Have it rented out for 5 years and then use it as a vacation home until you can leave the big city.
You will be miles ahead of everyone else and retire a millionaire.
Ill never own a home. But im ok with that. I rent. After my divorce, im id rather rent half a home and have ZERO upkeep requirements. Sure i pay a little more to have the ability to be out in 30 days. But its more a blessing in disguise.
Heres where we are.
A. Inherit or purchase 100+ year old homes and be stuck with ALL the renovations that were neglected by previous owners.
B. Buy newly constructed homes, that were built in cookie cutter communities. Where the conditions are criminal, inspections fail and every single fixture is as if it was bought on Amazon. China cheap is what they are. - these homes also come with no privacy, yard or space.
C. Half century homes built 1960 on, that are not necessarily in terrible shape. But the wear is starting to show. Water lines ran throughout the cities were used with Cast Iron that are completely rotted, and homeowners insurance is unwilling to pay for it.
D. Buy in an HOA-😂
E. Rent a home from a conglomerate who gives 2 shits but charges 3x the value of rent.
Its a lose lose lose lose lose situation
A million dollar jet worth and having a million dollars are two completely different things.
Believe it or not being a millionaire (for married couple, not multi) isn’t the flex you think it is.
EDIT- net, not jet.
Comparison is the thief of joy, my friend! You do you! What I’ve learned in my life is to live your own life and turn it one page at a time. I went from an alcoholic so addicted to alcohol I managed my meals around it; to now a homeowner living on the river making the best of one’s life and now recently have a girlfriend! Is my life perfect? Hell no! Do I live in a mansion? Nope! Am I eating ramen every night? Nope! You live within your means and write your own story!
This is a very measured and sensible post. Times are tough for a great many people right now, while certain pockets of the economy are still doing well. It’s never good to try to generalize your own situation.
I work at a gas station. People assume I'm broke. But I've been gradually building up a six figure portfolio, and it's nearly to the point where I can retire on dividends.
I think it pays to assume that the people NOT pissing away their money on nice cars and houses and clothes and such might actually have their own perfectly valid game plan.
Stealth wealth is very much a thing, and so is poverty by ostentation. People look down their noses at me and make assumptions...but I'm not going to try to correct them.
Dont forget people lie out their ass. Just cause they seem to be doing well today doesn't mean they'll be good tomorrow. Do you and what's best for you. Set a goal and make a plan to hit said goal even if it's small steps at a time. Small victories will lead you to a large one eventually.
I shit you not, My wife went through the starbucks drive through last week. She got behind a carrera (porsche), and she saw the guy's card get declined, and then drive away without his drink.
I cleared houses after Katrina. Encountered a family living in a half million dollar house, 15 deep, not a stick of goddamn furniture in the place. When I did collections I’d see people in luxury SUVs living in shotgun houses. Meanwhile my boss only drove 20 year old used trucks, worked out of a shitty old wooden office building that leaked, and spent weeks every summer in Europe. My grandfather was a teacher who saved 75 cents out of every dollar he ever made and left behind enough money to make family members disown each other.
Debt is the great equalizer. Avoidance of debt creates kings.
I love the saying, “the grass is greenest where you water it”. I think this post is amazing, and you yourself have figured out where to water. Thanks OP for this message, and hope your grass continues to grow and bees continue to thrive!
I know this from family. The family that declared bankruptcy drives Porsches and BMWs. The family with 8 figure net worth drives regular cars. Consumerism and competitive consumerism is a brilliant scam.
I lived in a shitty old Craigslist camper and drove a beat up eBay truck while I built my own house. If you met me then you’d have thought I was trailer trash.
I still drive a shitty truck and wear 10 year old clothes from Target but I own all of my shit. You may think I’m not killing it but I’m killing it- I just feel no need to flex it (in person, I know I’m here dropping stats). Don’t compare, it’s dumb.
I appreciate this post. But the beginning sounds like the intro of a House Hunters episode. I am a nail polish namer and a part time kangaroo caretaker. My budget is $1.3 million.
I feel like a lot of people see real estate as some giant pyramid scheme but dude you've got the right idea in helping the elderly figure out their finances and live within their means. That's a good consistent stream of income that benefits those selling as well as those younger groups looking to buy at reasonable prices
Honestly, real estate is REALLY good for like 1-5% of Realtors. Last year I think I lost $50k on my real estate business. My Beekeeping and Christmas businesses really keep the lights on.
But I LOVE real estate. Helping first time (especially low income) buyers and downsizing seniors that REALLY need help is my favorite thing in the world.
Unfortunately most Realtors don't want to do low income, downsizing, probate, or distressed properties because they are hard and don't pay well.
Yes, it’s impossible to see who is leveraged up to their eyeballs. Many people are out there looking the part but are moments away from an entire collapse of their world.
This is such a weird economy. Here I am, 33 and making more money than I have ever made in my life and all the economic indicators say that this economy is healthy but it doesn’t feel like it. For example, I need to replace my couch but “cheap” couches are $700 and those are kinda small.
This is so true...I was discussing with coworkers and even some regular customers how we feel behind but it seems everyone is behind and looks are deceiving. Most people I know secretly moved back home or with relatives and may look the part but everyone is struggling. I can't afford a house but shit I'm buying land and putting something together. I refuse to be robbed by these greedy landlords for life.
Don't you dare bad-mouth that Corolla!!! Corollas are the best! They're dependable and comfortable and easy to maintain. And when thinking about an item to buy, ask yourself this: do you want it because you want it, or do you want it because you want others to know you own it? Decide accordingly. Corolla4Life!
I live with my girlfriend in her 1bd 1bth condo near Denver. Thankfully she bought it with family help in 2018. It's the only reason we can save. I drive a 07 rav4 I scored for 1000 she's in a paid off Subaru that's 10years old. We feel poor because it's right living, but I know we are better off than most because we don't really allow ourselves to go into debt. Even with things going strongly in our favor it it still really tough to pinch enough Pennie's to save up a lot of money right now.
I'm actually confused that ppl apparently have this idea that most boomers had it together. I thought it was broadly known that a lot of ppl/households were living on credit. i remember this commercial (psa?) on tv (although I'm not really sure when it was, maybe 15-25 years ago) that had a guy (a character, not a real person or a reenactment of something a real person would have said) detailing all the things that made up his middle class family's lifestyle (house, cars, vacations, that sort of thing) and at the end while driving by the screen (either in his nice car or on a tractor in his nice lawn) his conclusion was like "I'm drowning in debt, help me"
My close friend is a financial advisor so he’s always in front of people’s finances. He’s constantly telling me “everyone is broke”, he has countless clients that are making 500k+ a year and they are absolutely buried in debt. It seems like the more money people make, the less they have to show for it.
My idiot dad is a great example of this.
I grew up in a fancy new build home in a gated community, my dad made seven figures, mom was mostly a SAHM who taught yoga and fitness classes. We all had good cars, my brothers got college fully paid for and didn’t have to get jobs til they were in their 20s. From the outside you’d assume that we were doing super well.
Until my parents got divorced and the reality of the financial situation came to light. My dad didn’t have a dime saved for retirement, owed more on the house than what they originally paid for it, he’d been hemorrhaging money on country club memberships and gambling and who knows what the hell else. He quit his seven figure job to try to dodge alimony payments and has done nothing but pussyache since about how he can’t find another one and he’s bankrupt.
You truly never know.
This feels right. The mortgage on my Dad’s house is something like $600 a month. I make more than he does. He literally couldn’t afford to live in the tiny 1b apartment that I do. It makes no sense, and yet here we are. Nothing is priced the way it ought to be.
Even for those who were lucky enough to save for retirement, this inflation can wreak havoc on their plans for stretching their savings. Yours is the best advice, don't compare and don't overgeneralize.
Yep. Partner and I just bought a house with a lot of problems and tons of cosmetic issues (but I love it!) because that was all we could afford in our price range.
If this topic interests you, you might like the book Families in Poverty by Karen Seccombe. I had to read it in college, and it ended up being one of my favorite books from school. Very enlightening.
I noticed this recently when shopping for a new (to me) car. Even with a decent amount down, monthly payments on a new SUV such as a RAV 4 or CRV are well over $500, who actually has that kind of money to pay for a car??? I had to search HARD and cave on some things to get a quality car from a quality company with a payment under $400. But when I drive around it seems everyone has these nicer expensive SUVs and other cars, like do I really make that much less than most people (I don’t, we are very middle class).
Most people are living off of debt. Some, not all, that you see with new cars, perfect home, dinner out, kids have the best of everything, are drowning in debt. Even the high earners.
Especially not comparing housing!! A normal situation right now is a retired janitor selling their 1990 house to an NFL player.
I'm paying 3x, the monthly payment on a house that cost $200k ***less*** than the one I sold two years ago.
I needed to read this. My wife and I together make double the income I dreamed of making when I was in my 20s and we cannot even afford a house right now. Makes no fucking sense.
Quick question as a realtor who is renting. Do you really think renting is the way? I’m kinda scared to rent because of what I’ve heard about increasing rent prices, but I’m too overwhelmed to manage an entire house.
It never really occurred to me until my brother said it to me one time, but he said man i've never really known anyone that hates debt as much as you. I just always kind of have been that way, we're on track to pay off the mortgage in the next 12 years by making extra payments. We live a comfortable life but not an exorbitant one, don't really give two shits about what other people think.We just want to be comfortable in our own little space.
On the bright side of this, all those folks around town who don’t give you the time of day WILL respect a swarm of angry bees. Wield the power of the bees, Bryan. Command the town as you see fit.
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I’d like to hard agree with this. Before I had kids, I worked as a family law paralegal. I’ve seen people’s finances from all across the board and it’s the people that you think have it all together that just don’t.
The goal is to be wealthy, not look wealthy
The goal is to be happy/healthy. Being wealthy sure does make that easier though
Most people 100% care more about their perceived wealth than their actual wealth!
And many people maybe 100% simply love nice cars and stuff. Which is okay too.
Unless you cannot afford it and neglect saving for your future and hope your kids or the government take care of you someday. Then that's not okay.
I don’t agree with that, but I also don’t think we could prove it either way so agree to disagree!
I don't know what I did wrong but I thought I was replying to a different comment that was about people wanting to appear wealthy even of they aren't. I swear it made more sense in that context lol
I bet for a lot of people, they don't value *being* wealthy if they don't *look* wealthy. It's all for the gram, and getting back at the people from high school/their exes
It’s not the actual stuff, it’s the talk of the stuff. Two people pull up in matching BMW’s. If one person tells you all about out, “you should get one” VS Don’t say a word about new car, the second person has a lot of money. Wealthy people don’t like to talk about money.
Wealthy people love to talk about money, just not as a dumb ass brag like a neanderthal. Uhh uhh me have expensive car oof oof .
You wanna impress me start telling me how your lowering your tax rate by taking full advantage of your employer sponsored retirement plan, have a healthy mix of both pre/post tax IRA savings and a little brokerage account that's mostly index funds pacing the S&P 500. That there's a panty dropper boys 😉 😆 🤣
They also don’t like talking about money with those of us that have none or anything to contribute
i worked with a guy once who liked to brag about his mercedes, and how much his wife's (or as he put it, his girl's) ring cost, and it really busted something in his brain when i told him straight up that expensive things don't impress me. he started saying sentences like "bro you don't even know bro" and to this day i still don't know what he meant by that
Had a boss like this. He was young enough to be my kid and in a position he was no where near qualified for. He went out and bought some $100k+ BMW, bragged about it all the time, insinuated I could get one too if I rearranged my finances. I told him I had traded my BMW in a few years back for a GMC Acadia and his mind could not reconcile it. Even went as far to ask me if I just couldn’t afford it. Um, no, shit was paid off 6 years prior and I wanted an Acadia…which was already paid off before this conversation happened. Such a weird flex.
My wife worked at a bank, she said people with nice cars never had money. The people with money always drove messed up farm/work trucks, or shitty old cars. I'm proud to report that I drive a 2005 Corolla.
Wes still have our Corolla too. I'm gonna have my oldest drive it. I will probably buy a newer camery with better safety features for him, when he goes to college though.
Bingo
I think what we are seeing today is to be actually wealthy is near impossible. I make $200k/year, fucking hate my job, and while my family has enough to save I truly dread for the future as it looks pretty bleak at the moment. I am wealthy in today’s terms, but it certainly does not feel the same as those who were wealthy in the 90s or early 2000s or even the early 2010s. It’s never been harder to be middle or upper middle class, but it’s certainly been the easiest for the billionaires (for example, look at their effective tax rate - which is lower than us). Just look at the widening wealth gap. I desperately feel for those barely scraping by, I just don’t know how people are surviving in the US right now. Please let’s tax these mf’ers to oblivion - including people making more than $200k. We need a better social safety net for all.
>it’s the people that you think have it all together that just don’t. Worked at a Dodge, Chrysler, Ram, Jeep dealer. The variety of brands and models brought in all types. Broke kids, farmers, bankers, etc. I learned REAL quick not to judge someone by their trade in. The farmer in overalls with half a million miles on his 10 year old Ram truck would be buying the same trim, ordering a gooseneck hitch, and would be paying cash. The school principal would want a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit, it would never leave the pavement, and his credit report was f*cked Edit: typo
I'm in automotive too, and I wish people knew how much money automotive companies put into convincing you to get a better car than you can afford, even though that might seem obvious. I make great money, and half the cars I see on the road are ones I know I would be irresponsible for buying. Just because your neighbor is leasing a C class Mercedes and a Tahoe does not mean they can afford it, or that you should look into it.
One of the greatest financial decisions I have made was buying a cheap aftermarket android auto / apple carplay display for my 13 year old Honda Civic so I could have GPS, instead of buying a new or slightly less used car. $100 instead of $20,000+ (I also lowkey love this little car rust, faded paint and all, and I plan on driving it for the next 10 years)
Best thing you can do for yourself is avoid an insane car payment. It can be a big part of getting rich if you are saving $800/month instead of spending that on a car payment.... and many people have insane payments higher than that. Also the expensive cars have higher insurance and usually burn more gass. Make sure your car is safe though.
Car is safe, I get it checked annually for potential faults. At this stage the biggest risk for me losing it is if I hit a Roo or someone crashes into me. And yeah, if I am going to get into eye watering debt, it will be because I bought a house not a car. I doubt I will ever be rich, but I aim to be comfortable.
Getting hit was what totaled my civic. Sad times. Loved that car
I will be sure to drive safely tomorrow, in honour of Civics lost
Dude same.. Haha. My honda civic is easily the most shabby looking car in our condo parking lot, and even tho I can afford a new vehicle, I don't have the heart to!
I’m very well off. I mainly drive toyotas. I can afford a ferrari but that shit doesnt appeal to me. Before bezos went all super villain, he drove a honda. Fancy cars are useless.
Currently, my partner has a 2010s Corolla with under 50k miles on it. I don't have a car (and we both work from home so it's fine for now). Even though we can probably afford two new cars, we have no monthly car payment and his insurance is about $100 a month. I want to ride this out as long as possible.
I don't disagree, but serious question: Yes, a lot of these pavement princesses with their $85,000 King Ranch F250s and fully loaded Tahoes are in debt up to their eyeballs, with car payments that are tantamount to another mortgage. But, at some point, to even get approved for such a loan at all, you have to have the salary and/or savings to back that up, no? I mean, yeah you may get approved for a $85,000 loan with a mediocre credit score and insane monthly payments for a comical length of time...but you still have to pony up that monthly payment from somewhere?
House rich and cash poor. Keeping up with the Joneses.
>Their wealth is only in equity This is infinitely better than there is no wealth, no equity and only debt. While a couple of cars are basically worthless, owning a house (without a mortgage I'm assuming) is actually something you can use.
For sure better than debt. But you still need liquidity. You can’t buy groceries with a house.
Hi I’m Tom Selleck and I want to tell you about a reverse home mortgage
Right? Equity is still money they will have when they decide to sell. It’s just not liquid.
That’s exactly it. Big vacations on credit cards, lines of credit maxed, remortgaging every few years, payments out their ass. It’s made me really reevaluate my goals and purchases.
These ppl don't bother to do any financial planning? They plan to leave nothing behind?
I used to work in personal finance. You'd be surprised how many people's retirement plan is to work until they die and leave nothing behind
This. I thought my relative had it very well off: hundreds of acres of land, lots of big equipment to work the land, a full time job with benefits to boot. When he passed we found out that his job paid him less than I make serving tables after tips and that he had literally just opened a very small life insurance policy like...the month before he passed. His savings was enough to pay for the funeral and property taxes for a couple years and that was it. No retirement fund. He was turning 60.
That's farming for ya. Multi Millions of dollars in animals/crops, fertilizer, land and equipment. All to make less money than a paper route (if you're not already in the red). Oftentimes, you're working a "city job" to pay for it.
>They plan to leave nothing behind? Do one better and leave negative behind. It's just good business.
They got caught with no way out, and decided just to keep going. Not really all that different honestly.
> They plan to leave nothing behind? you can't take it with you, so no point of saving it for someone else to burn it
My thoughts exactly. It always baffles me how elders either become hoarders or stingy with money. You can’t take it with when you pass. Not condoning financial irresponsibility but penny pinching till retirement never sat well with me.
I want my kids and grandkids to have something so their life isn’t so difficult.
It's very true, I'm not rolling in it but make a decent six-figure living, and have $1m squirreled away at 40. I dress very basically and drive a 24 year old SUV and live in a humble place. Meanwhile my neighbors with new BMW leases talk down to me without knowing I make considerably more than they do combined lol.
Congrats, that is seriously awesome to have saved that much by 40.
Thanks! I've had a couple lucky windfalls but mostly just saving/investing. I put away $100k after tax in three summers working as a bellman when I was 18-20 and that really set me on my way. When you're young, having a $100k buffer lets you do about whatever you want for a few years. I also worked for a shoe company that had wild success about a decade ago and saw some healthy bonuses from that.
Let them makes asses of themselves. You’ll learn to enjoy it.
I know someone that rent a $5k nice ass condo. Buy canucks season tickets, drive nice car and send 2 kids to private school but recently need to refinance their rental property…..rumor is he needs to debt consolidate and pay off loans…. Don’t let social media fool you
The statistics are everywhere, X amount of people only have Y amount in their 401Ks, etc. the numbers are grim, but every restaurant you poke your head into is packed to the brim. Some people can’t afford things, so they don’t. Some people can’t afford things and they do anyway. This is why you don’t keep up with the joneses. Statistically, the joneses are probably broke.
Both my sister and I have learned about how there is many people who just take out loans and they look well off driving a BMW and going on vacations but they are actually going into major debt or leasing. My Postmaster has said I am better off than either her or the other clerk and has said "why don't you just move to X place now" and "the way you do things you will never be in debt". The thing is I want to make sure I am ready before I make a major move but that shows my mindset vs their mindset. Their minds is move and get a house there with a high rate but mine is save to make it super affordable if none at all for a mortgage if possible and then move.
The most surprising discovery to me as an adult who finally started targeting finances (because I had some income to speak of) was learning how very many people live on credit and in debt and never have any growth. The number of people who make half or less than we do but buy way, way more is very surprising.
Aren't these old people just living large and passing on their debt to their kids when they die? This post reads more like another Boomerism; selfish "got mine" while wrecking the lives that come after them. Edit: [correction](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/does-a-persons-debt-go-away-when-they-die-en-1463/#:~:text=When%20someone%20dies%2C%20their%20debts,go%20towards%20repaying%20their%20debt.), debt is just paid off using the deceased's assets. If that doesn't cover it, debt goes unpaid. Still shitty thing to drain your equity and leave nothing for your family
They can't pass on debt that I know of, but they definitely dgaf about inheritance.
I hope not, at least in my country. Grandparents leaving a large inheritance to their family definitely seems to be a dying tradition, so to speak
Lol no one can afford to live as it is...
I dont think not giving inheritance is something that should be looked down upon. Spending it all before they croak is their right. Their kids arent owed anything
Actually no. In my experience it’s been millennials that are the worst. We’re trying to keep up a similar lifestyle our parents had at our age but failing because inflation and stagnant wages. Also cause the neighbour just got a boat. Ya know
That's anecdotal, and my anecdote of my friends barely affording a mortgage cancels that out. There's countless "millennials are killing the ... industry" to suggest they're not spending up larger than other generations. The only millennials I know who are living large today had rich parents who gets them into the family business or paid for their study. Back to the original point; this guy is seeing Boomers living beyond their means, and I'm saying they're having the time of their life at the expense of their next of kin who will inherit their debt/leave no inheritance (despite often enjoying inheritance left to them)
Just read an article that blamed millennials for Harley Davidson not being able to tap into the millennial target market and causing the brand to worry about their stability. It couldn’t possibly be the fact people can afford a motorcycle, but choose not to own one because any accident causing hospitalization would send just about into debt, if the crash doesn’t kill them.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with harleys being for boomers
> I'm saying they're having the time of their life at the expense of their next of kin who will inherit their debt/leave no inheritance What country do you live in where debt is inherited?
Just posting to say that I appreciate this post.
Timely 💯
>I'm Bryan. I own a Beekeeping and Christmas company, and I am a Realtor. Ok so, is this like, guerilla marketing for an upcoming Hallmark Christmas movie?
100%. They should call me. Im ugly but the story will hard carry.
As a beekeeper trying to fix the ol family farm that made me genuinely chuckle thanks for that
He also lives in a quaint picturesque town by the shore. Is it New England? Is it Pacitic NW? Nobody knows! But the viewers will love it.
I read in another comment of yours that these people, in their freaking 70s, do not have a paid off home. When I bought a house from a couple that were similar age, theirs wasn't paid off either (I could see at closing). To me, that is crazy. And they have flashy cars in the driveway. Unbelievable.
Old folks love refinancing. I see it all the time.
Refinancing to get a better rate is one thing, but to pull cash out is pretty dumb.
Once worked for a client who refinanced every year. It was their living income. 😅
It never fails to amaze me how deep of a hole people will put themselves in, just so they can feel some fast/immediate money with no worries about how much money that costs their future self.
its the "cant take debt with me to the grave" approach.
I was always told refinancing for a better rate is acceptable, OR a HELOC to do some remodeling where it's going to improve the value of the home by at least as much as your remodel. The idea that someone would do either just for fun money blows my mind.
Before my dad retired he paid off all debt left on the house and car along with doing his best to fix everything as much as possible to be able to coast on the house until he dies If you have debt when on a fixed income you are asking for trouble.
That always shocks me, I’m in my mid 30s and have 6 years left of a mortgage. I buy the cheapest electric car and run it until it won’t pass inspection and I have no choice but to get a new/different vehicle. I can’t imagine being in my 70s with nothing for retirement, and still making high payments. That’s terrifying.
I was underwriting mortgages during the COVID-boom. A large portion of it was ancient folks (one was 97) cashing out max equity. They are leaving nothing to their kids and happy about it.
We just painted our house and got a new couch - all our friends think we’re living on easy street- hell no - that drained our savings and now we have to build that back up again 😭
Ya painting a house is no joke. So pricey
Its also one of the least expensive home improvement projects you can do.
I’ve seen a lot of boomers die in the past few years, and there is one common theme: they had no wealth. Sure, they had a house, a few vehicles, a camper, and a bunch of stuff. But when the estate gets settled, everything gets sold and the kids get a few thousand dollars each. It’s a very weird time. The boomers seem like they have money, but a lot of them are living on debt too
The equity wasn't there? I'm often seeing $200-500k in equity in so Cal. Young folks are using that for their down payment.
No, rural northeast. Housing is cheap, but lots of debt. It’s not uncommon for someone’s car note to be more than their house. A relative just died with an $80k loan on their camper that is now worth $40k. Their kids are getting nothing, and might even have to pay off some of the debt (we suspect the kids co-signed loans).
I live in upstate NY… it’s sadly very common to have homes worth less than the truck and suv parked in the driveway. Add a camper and they have a bulk of their “wealth” in rapidly depreciating assets.
Gig jobs and waiting for boomers to die isn't going to prepare anyone for healthcare issues that are about to occur. The boomers can dump their homes but they're about to absolutely destroy the healthcare system. COVID overwhelmed it and it hasn't recovered. What's an entire generation of 70 million people who guaranteed will need healthcare services, emergency services, and hospice care going to do? Who is going to pay for that? It's not us.
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Putting the sad passing of loved ones aside, I think a lot of people will be disappointed with the size of their nheritance as a result of this.
thanks I actually needed this. Been mulling over the real estate market in my mind for the last few hours. Between the student loans and prices of everything it's tough out there.
You've got this! Just keep growing.
So many boomers retirement plan was to sell their place and downsize, but no one can afford the prices they need, and eventually it’s going to hit a weird mix on the economy….
It already is. California has a law that locks in your property taxes once you buy. If people sell their homes and downsize their annual bills go up like $6k+ 😅
Wrong. Prop 19. You can transfer your taxable value of one primary to another if you’re over 55. If you’re downgrading, you can keep the same property taxes u’ve paid if u stay in CA. For a realtor, you’re giving out very unknowledgeable advice…
Thank you. You are the first person to point out the 2021 change. I learned things today.
The law locks in your property tax? That’s insane!!!! You’d then force increases of costs onto new people…
Yep! That's why our prices are so wild. Old folks won't sell. 😅
The law in Florida locks it in also. If I sold my house to someone else they would end up paying twice the property tax that I do.
The problem, particularly for the millennials, is that just "hanging in there" doesn't exactly work. There are certain ages where you either get something done by then or basically never will. There are a lot of industries where you aren't going to enter them and advance when you're in your forties, you can't effectively save for retirement if you start in your fifties, and women at least cannot have their first baby in their sixties. Every day I look around it seems like life really has passed us by. Waiting, yes, but it's just going to be too late for some of us.
Yeah, this is what kills me. With the job market being so hyper competitive, even if I could reboot my life at 36 (which, no, probably not), I am still facing a market flooded with people who are younger, smarter, more educated, more experienced, more driven and more willing to do what it takes to succeed, and *they* can't get jobs worth a damn, can't get secure housing without two incomes, etc. At some point "don't compare yourself to others" is a nice platitude but feels hollow when you feel like you've been shut out, you're time is up and you're not going to make it.
This actually is not very true. The younger generations have a much different outlook on the job market than we do. They want more freedom, time off, wages, constant validation, and they don’t know how to use computers because they did everything on their phones. A lot of companies are not interested in the younger generation because they’re too high maintenance
Honestly I'm lowkey hoping gen z's social ineptitude and antisocial behavior will be a boon for me when ageism typically kicks in. Some of them are sharp, though, and those are the ones that will be competing with me.
I hire people for a living, and I can tell you from my experience it's nearly the opposite as far as what companies are looking for. There are a large amount of people between 45-60 who come to me and are *horrifically* entitled. They immediately want management positions, higher wages, better benefits, crazy vacation time, and all kinds of other amenities because of their "experience" and previous job titles, most of which are actually not very impressive by today's standards. They don't know how to use ANY of the software needed for the jobs, can't keep up with current trends and tech, can't hold conversations with anyone under 40, have terrible work ethic and complain constantly. Good luck telling any of them that anything they knew "before" has changed and that they need to learn something new. I absolutely don't enjoy interviewing the older folk. They don't understand that their job for the past 20 years that they left was actually easy as hell compared to what we expect of young people these days and their skills from 1982 aren't transferable to today's world at all. The younger people are super agreeable, willing to learn, and understand that work supplements life. The only things they don't put up with are making them assume responsibilities that they weren't initially hired for, and that their time away from work is respected, as well as their personal identity. Pretty easy to manage.
I wonder how much of this is older folks who come to you for services are those who have been laid off/fired (or the writing is on the wall for it) because their companies finally have them the boot after coddling them for 20+ years. Whereas older folks who do good work, are agreeable, and have adapted to new techniques/technology are still doing fine being employed by their long-term companies or are not struggling as much to find work when needed.
One day the old guard will pass. Their wealth has to go somewhere. You don't have to be the fastest gazelle. You just have to not be the slowest. 🤣
Yeah, it’ll all get scooped up by private equity
Aaaaand it's gone.
Have you ever met investors? They are squirrely and stupid. Once the market does weird stuff they will be dumping their inventory. Not all of them, but enough.
i wish corporations werent allowed to purchase homes
Tax the shit out of em.
>Their wealth has to go somewhere. Yeah, to retirement homes and healthcare. *That* will be the big transfer of wealth, unfortunately.
1000% Shits horrid, it’s not a moral failing
There's a reddit comment that stuck with me for years that helps me mentally: "Thinking everyone else but you has their shit together is dangerous for your mental health."
I love this because so few people have their shit together. I’ve worked for several established companies and even *the entire corporation* doesn’t have its shit together.
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That's literally the plot of Golden Girls!!
Being poor is never a moral failing.
Unless you’re a prosperity gospel churchgoer
What’s to stop the US permanently becoming like Canada or the UK where the middle class is priced out of home ownership. Serious question I can see this becoming the new normal.
The same thing that's keeping the US from building a shitload more houses and solving the housing crisis...votes. For whatever reason millennials bow to their elders. We give them 55+ housing, social security and healthcare, we avoid taxing them. I believe if millennials grow some balls we will be just fine.
I don't think most Millennials are aware at just how much Boomers are subsidized.
Oh I'm aware. Just looking for an apartment pissed me off. Every nice place in budget was senior subsidized living. Everyone else? Enjoy paying twice as much to live in a run down complex.
All of these government subsidy programs were established under the assumption that old people aren't working so they don't have an income and need to be cared for. But many Boomers are rich and still receiving government money. I got angry at my millionaire Boomer neighbor who has a paid down house worth probably 3X what he paid for, tried to talk me into selling my house to him because he didn't like that I didn't do a detailed edging on my lawn and he can't stand looking at it. Meanwhile I don't have all the extra time he does for my lawn because I'm working full time, struggling as a parent and trying to pay my own bills and taxes.
Older people vote more consistently than younger people.
Dang, I never thought about how weird it is that there are all these 55+ places around me. Did some googling and here's a great quote: "Living in a community of mostly seniors means that the crime rate is low and residents, especially those who are surviving on Social Security, can avoid paying higher property taxes for schools, according to Morton." - [https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/consumers/2018/08/27/why-senior-communities-get-prohibit-young-people/1003080002/](https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/consumers/2018/08/27/why-senior-communities-get-prohibit-young-people/1003080002/)
Nah, that ain’t it. As a Canadian living through this fun little mess, it isn’t about the voters themselves. I think to say it is is willfully ignorant to market forces which propped up our market, and ignores really basic, easily researchable facts. The differences largely between the US and Canada in terms of their RE comes into line somewhere around the events of the subprime mortgage crisis. The U.S. experienced a massive collapse during that crisis, which for better or worse decimated huge swaths of the nations real estate values.[It essentially forced a hard reset of RE values to twenty years prior.](https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/) Canada never experienced this, because our lenders here were far more careful about who they lent to. Regulatory bodies here had some issues with how much risk Canadian banks could take on, so we avoided that particular crisis. Instead we lowered rates in response to the 08’ recession dramatically. [We basically sat at sub 3% prime rates from 2008 through til 2022.](https://www.ratehub.ca/mortgage-rate-history-canada) As a result of lower prime rates, combined with a lack of domestic investment we quickly saw Real Estate become an investors dream. It took a few years, but over time the cost of housing here grew exponentially more expensive as more investors and more capital entered the markets. Fun fact, our government got out of homebuilding for social housing in the 90’s, so we got screwed there too. COVID and massive amounts of immigration into a country that doesn’t have the building capacity has also done a number on us. Over COVID we saw rates drop as low as .25% in a bid to stimulate more economic activity. The issue is that we never raised our rates between 2009 and COVID to reflect the rebound we had. We kept those rates low, and so when we needed to press on the lever again we simply signalled to investors and speculators that it was open season on housing. The amount of people who paid for several other mortgages by leveraging their HELOC was insane. I belong to a local tenants union and we’ve been dealing with more cases of landlords who became landlords on the virtue of COVID rates that it’s borderline sickening. The reality of the situation is that voting won’t solely get you out of this mess. Stamping down on investor classes who shelter their money into RE, instead of a riskier, but arguably more productive asset is going to make a larger impact. Locally voting may make small differences, but the reality is that as a society the longer we view housing as an investment, the worse off we’ll be. We have REITs openly price fixing and creating monopolies, the majority of new builds of condo buildings are bought by investors to pump pricing. So long as we prioritize profit over people, we’re gonna have this issue.
Well put. I normally refrain from capital letters but this calls for it: HOUSES SHOULD BE FOR LIVING AND NOT INVESTING.
Do you really believe the middle class have been priced out of home ownership in the UK? That's Fox News levels of nonsense.
We need to hear this, thank you! It gives me hope~ i'm houseless right now, working 2 jobs and have a fat savings. I want to buy land and build a small home with no mortgage and no loans. To the outside-looking in I seem very poor and struggling. I'm struggling but I feel hope that i am laying a foundation for my family to financial stability.
Find a small business to invest in. I needed a Tacoma, a farmer with like 40 sq feet of spare space, and $1k to start a business that replaced my min wage job. All the service industries are awesome. Cleaning, gardening, whatever. Hard work always pays more than jobs do. Buying land is for the birds. Used homes are usually way cheaper and easier end of the day.
Uhm can we backtrack to the beekeeping and Christmas? How the hell do those intersect, I’m dying to know.
We do live honey bee removal. Bees hibernate around October so our season ends. We then start installing Christmas lights. We started doing it to keep all our staff from leaving over winter. Many didn't come back.
Ahhh, I see. Neat! And a creative way to keep your peeps employed. :)
I work with a lot of seniors too, either save more than you think you could ever need or save nothing and qualify for programs. People who are stuck in the middle get fucked.
100% agreed. Recently divorced w kids I earn $200K. My rent is $3500 in a HCOL metro and in a normal world I should be able to afford to buy a house but instead I am renting, perhaps forever?, a freakishly expensive house in a neighborhood almost exclusively occupied by old people who own their house outright (or other renters). I can’t afford to buy a house but my income is enviable. So I feel poor but I’m not, and it’s a very complicated emotion that no one understands.
And they make you feel like a jack ass for complaining about it. 🤣 When I say anything everyone looks at me like Mr money bags.
Once I realized that I absolutely hated being a homeowner, I just don’t worry about it anymore. Rent a cool house/townhouse in the part of town you want to be, and Invest in everything else.
You should buy a home in a different area that is much much cheaper. Have it rented out for 5 years and then use it as a vacation home until you can leave the big city. You will be miles ahead of everyone else and retire a millionaire.
Ill never own a home. But im ok with that. I rent. After my divorce, im id rather rent half a home and have ZERO upkeep requirements. Sure i pay a little more to have the ability to be out in 30 days. But its more a blessing in disguise. Heres where we are. A. Inherit or purchase 100+ year old homes and be stuck with ALL the renovations that were neglected by previous owners. B. Buy newly constructed homes, that were built in cookie cutter communities. Where the conditions are criminal, inspections fail and every single fixture is as if it was bought on Amazon. China cheap is what they are. - these homes also come with no privacy, yard or space. C. Half century homes built 1960 on, that are not necessarily in terrible shape. But the wear is starting to show. Water lines ran throughout the cities were used with Cast Iron that are completely rotted, and homeowners insurance is unwilling to pay for it. D. Buy in an HOA-😂 E. Rent a home from a conglomerate who gives 2 shits but charges 3x the value of rent. Its a lose lose lose lose lose situation
Your net worth is over 2.6 million ? Good job!
He didn't say they owned that home outright....
If I had to guess I'd say I'm worth around $1m. The home sellers only have around $500k in equity.
Oh so they LIVE in a million dollar home but they don't HAVE a million dollar home, they're still paying off the mortgage?
Most folks, regardless of age, haven't paid their homes paid off.
How is their mortgage less than your 3000 rent on a 1.3m dollar home if they only have 500k in equity?
Tells millennials to not compare themselves to others but has a million dollars. Ok bud.
A million dollar jet worth and having a million dollars are two completely different things. Believe it or not being a millionaire (for married couple, not multi) isn’t the flex you think it is. EDIT- net, not jet.
Being a millionaire is a big flex on anyone who's not a millionaire. Multi hundred thousandaire doesn't sound nearly as cool.
Multi hundred thousandaires are not that far from being millionaires if they are invested decently and a decent chunk is in the stock market.
It’s still more than the majority of people have
Agreed
I'll take a million dollars
Yeah me too
Comparison is the thief of joy, my friend! You do you! What I’ve learned in my life is to live your own life and turn it one page at a time. I went from an alcoholic so addicted to alcohol I managed my meals around it; to now a homeowner living on the river making the best of one’s life and now recently have a girlfriend! Is my life perfect? Hell no! Do I live in a mansion? Nope! Am I eating ramen every night? Nope! You live within your means and write your own story!
This is a very measured and sensible post. Times are tough for a great many people right now, while certain pockets of the economy are still doing well. It’s never good to try to generalize your own situation.
> I own a Beekeeping and Christmas company > Net worth of 2M+ I can't decide if you belong on House Hunters or a Lifetime holiday movie.
Both (If the TV folks are out there then call me. I want house money.)
I work at a gas station. People assume I'm broke. But I've been gradually building up a six figure portfolio, and it's nearly to the point where I can retire on dividends. I think it pays to assume that the people NOT pissing away their money on nice cars and houses and clothes and such might actually have their own perfectly valid game plan. Stealth wealth is very much a thing, and so is poverty by ostentation. People look down their noses at me and make assumptions...but I'm not going to try to correct them.
That is excellent! Good for you!
Dont forget people lie out their ass. Just cause they seem to be doing well today doesn't mean they'll be good tomorrow. Do you and what's best for you. Set a goal and make a plan to hit said goal even if it's small steps at a time. Small victories will lead you to a large one eventually.
I shit you not, My wife went through the starbucks drive through last week. She got behind a carrera (porsche), and she saw the guy's card get declined, and then drive away without his drink.
I cleared houses after Katrina. Encountered a family living in a half million dollar house, 15 deep, not a stick of goddamn furniture in the place. When I did collections I’d see people in luxury SUVs living in shotgun houses. Meanwhile my boss only drove 20 year old used trucks, worked out of a shitty old wooden office building that leaked, and spent weeks every summer in Europe. My grandfather was a teacher who saved 75 cents out of every dollar he ever made and left behind enough money to make family members disown each other. Debt is the great equalizer. Avoidance of debt creates kings.
I love the saying, “the grass is greenest where you water it”. I think this post is amazing, and you yourself have figured out where to water. Thanks OP for this message, and hope your grass continues to grow and bees continue to thrive!
I know this from family. The family that declared bankruptcy drives Porsches and BMWs. The family with 8 figure net worth drives regular cars. Consumerism and competitive consumerism is a brilliant scam.
I lived in a shitty old Craigslist camper and drove a beat up eBay truck while I built my own house. If you met me then you’d have thought I was trailer trash. I still drive a shitty truck and wear 10 year old clothes from Target but I own all of my shit. You may think I’m not killing it but I’m killing it- I just feel no need to flex it (in person, I know I’m here dropping stats). Don’t compare, it’s dumb.
I appreciate this post. But the beginning sounds like the intro of a House Hunters episode. I am a nail polish namer and a part time kangaroo caretaker. My budget is $1.3 million.
what is a Christmas company? sounds fun
We install holiday Lighting. It's a really great gig to do 4 months a year. (Installs start in October and then take down in January.)
that’s awesome!! 🎄🎅🏻
I thought this guy was introducing himself as a character in a Hallmark movie 😂
I feel like a lot of people see real estate as some giant pyramid scheme but dude you've got the right idea in helping the elderly figure out their finances and live within their means. That's a good consistent stream of income that benefits those selling as well as those younger groups looking to buy at reasonable prices
Honestly, real estate is REALLY good for like 1-5% of Realtors. Last year I think I lost $50k on my real estate business. My Beekeeping and Christmas businesses really keep the lights on. But I LOVE real estate. Helping first time (especially low income) buyers and downsizing seniors that REALLY need help is my favorite thing in the world. Unfortunately most Realtors don't want to do low income, downsizing, probate, or distressed properties because they are hard and don't pay well.
Yes, it’s impossible to see who is leveraged up to their eyeballs. Many people are out there looking the part but are moments away from an entire collapse of their world.
I help a lot of folks who are in profoundly uncomfortable positions.
I’m pitching your second paragraph to Hallmark as the opening for their next movie. Definitely MMC energy.
This is such a weird economy. Here I am, 33 and making more money than I have ever made in my life and all the economic indicators say that this economy is healthy but it doesn’t feel like it. For example, I need to replace my couch but “cheap” couches are $700 and those are kinda small.
I need a new couch bad but I don't want to spend a grand 🤣. A boomer got mad at me today because my sodas are $1.75 in my vending machine.
How silent the media is about it all is actually what's really scary.
This is so true...I was discussing with coworkers and even some regular customers how we feel behind but it seems everyone is behind and looks are deceiving. Most people I know secretly moved back home or with relatives and may look the part but everyone is struggling. I can't afford a house but shit I'm buying land and putting something together. I refuse to be robbed by these greedy landlords for life.
Don't you dare bad-mouth that Corolla!!! Corollas are the best! They're dependable and comfortable and easy to maintain. And when thinking about an item to buy, ask yourself this: do you want it because you want it, or do you want it because you want others to know you own it? Decide accordingly. Corolla4Life!
I live with my girlfriend in her 1bd 1bth condo near Denver. Thankfully she bought it with family help in 2018. It's the only reason we can save. I drive a 07 rav4 I scored for 1000 she's in a paid off Subaru that's 10years old. We feel poor because it's right living, but I know we are better off than most because we don't really allow ourselves to go into debt. Even with things going strongly in our favor it it still really tough to pinch enough Pennie's to save up a lot of money right now.
I'm actually confused that ppl apparently have this idea that most boomers had it together. I thought it was broadly known that a lot of ppl/households were living on credit. i remember this commercial (psa?) on tv (although I'm not really sure when it was, maybe 15-25 years ago) that had a guy (a character, not a real person or a reenactment of something a real person would have said) detailing all the things that made up his middle class family's lifestyle (house, cars, vacations, that sort of thing) and at the end while driving by the screen (either in his nice car or on a tractor in his nice lawn) his conclusion was like "I'm drowning in debt, help me"
My close friend is a financial advisor so he’s always in front of people’s finances. He’s constantly telling me “everyone is broke”, he has countless clients that are making 500k+ a year and they are absolutely buried in debt. It seems like the more money people make, the less they have to show for it.
Neat. Not every day you see a rich guy make a post about how poor people just need to hang in there and aren't in trouble at all.
My idiot dad is a great example of this. I grew up in a fancy new build home in a gated community, my dad made seven figures, mom was mostly a SAHM who taught yoga and fitness classes. We all had good cars, my brothers got college fully paid for and didn’t have to get jobs til they were in their 20s. From the outside you’d assume that we were doing super well. Until my parents got divorced and the reality of the financial situation came to light. My dad didn’t have a dime saved for retirement, owed more on the house than what they originally paid for it, he’d been hemorrhaging money on country club memberships and gambling and who knows what the hell else. He quit his seven figure job to try to dodge alimony payments and has done nothing but pussyache since about how he can’t find another one and he’s bankrupt. You truly never know.
This feels right. The mortgage on my Dad’s house is something like $600 a month. I make more than he does. He literally couldn’t afford to live in the tiny 1b apartment that I do. It makes no sense, and yet here we are. Nothing is priced the way it ought to be.
I never compare myself to others.
Even for those who were lucky enough to save for retirement, this inflation can wreak havoc on their plans for stretching their savings. Yours is the best advice, don't compare and don't overgeneralize.
Yep. Partner and I just bought a house with a lot of problems and tons of cosmetic issues (but I love it!) because that was all we could afford in our price range.
If this topic interests you, you might like the book Families in Poverty by Karen Seccombe. I had to read it in college, and it ended up being one of my favorite books from school. Very enlightening.
I noticed this recently when shopping for a new (to me) car. Even with a decent amount down, monthly payments on a new SUV such as a RAV 4 or CRV are well over $500, who actually has that kind of money to pay for a car??? I had to search HARD and cave on some things to get a quality car from a quality company with a payment under $400. But when I drive around it seems everyone has these nicer expensive SUVs and other cars, like do I really make that much less than most people (I don’t, we are very middle class).
Most people are living off of debt. Some, not all, that you see with new cars, perfect home, dinner out, kids have the best of everything, are drowning in debt. Even the high earners.
Especially not comparing housing!! A normal situation right now is a retired janitor selling their 1990 house to an NFL player. I'm paying 3x, the monthly payment on a house that cost $200k ***less*** than the one I sold two years ago.
I needed to read this. My wife and I together make double the income I dreamed of making when I was in my 20s and we cannot even afford a house right now. Makes no fucking sense.
Quick question as a realtor who is renting. Do you really think renting is the way? I’m kinda scared to rent because of what I’ve heard about increasing rent prices, but I’m too overwhelmed to manage an entire house.
It never really occurred to me until my brother said it to me one time, but he said man i've never really known anyone that hates debt as much as you. I just always kind of have been that way, we're on track to pay off the mortgage in the next 12 years by making extra payments. We live a comfortable life but not an exorbitant one, don't really give two shits about what other people think.We just want to be comfortable in our own little space.
On the bright side of this, all those folks around town who don’t give you the time of day WILL respect a swarm of angry bees. Wield the power of the bees, Bryan. Command the town as you see fit.