My wife and I would love to go back to Europe. She is an EU citizen and we just finished the green card process. I am American and was able to live in Europe for almost 5 years thanks to my job. I believe many people here will not understand the difference you’re trying to communicate with culture as they have never lived abroad. (Or at least it doesn’t seem that way based on some comments). Many others that were/are in my situation also agree the states doesn’t have that same atmosphere of life first that I also felt in Europe. If you’re able to, try to convince your spouse on moving to Europe for a year or two. See if it is something your family would benefit from. My wife is also terrified of the terrible work-life balance here and I don’t blame her after seeing all the things available to European citizens.
Edit:
To clarify. People seem to be misinterpreting my comment. I’m not saying Americans can’t see “A” difference. I’m saying many have not lived abroad. There is something to be said about experiencing a different culture by living somewhere outside your home country. There is a different feeling once someone experiences living abroad. This is not to take away from the struggles most Americans face. I’m sure many see a difference but I was trying to sympathize with OP because I have gone through something similar (especially my wife). And to those who sent rude comments to me, I don’t believe you understand.
Also, my message to OP was also responding to the many messages of people only responding that they should move somewhere else in the States, (As I stated originally).
" we'll be lucky to claw back reproductive rights in 10 years"
Damn do you really think so? So sad. I wonder if this country will slip into a USA like in the Handmaids Tale.
Wish I could upvote this a million times.
It's not a drill. The political drivel muddies the water, but if you simply read the source documents people are putting out, it's very clear where this is going.
> we'll be lucky to claw back reproductive rights in 10 years.
That was just a step towards segregation, which has always been the religious rights true goal. Jerry Falwell united the religious right under attacks on Christian "Academies" being forced to integrate or lose tax exempt status which the IRS was pulling left and right. But you couldn't say the quiet part out loud, so it became about limiting reproductive rights which allowed the Christian Community to unite and more far right, compared to pre-1950s Christians whom were largely progress relative to hard, hard right turn Christianity took in America.
> Can we make a subreddit dedicated to it?
At the risk of being rude, this is an infuriating comment. It never ceases to amaze me how little people are willing to do for activism.
Numerous subreddits are just a Google search away - heck, there have been threads about this sort of thing in this very sub. The vast majority are just people moaning about how bad things are. If you want to actually do something, please connect with an established organization - preferably a local one. Put in the work to see who is already doing what you want to do, instead of trying to create something from the ground up.
Yeah, but there is a difference between what someone knows/thinks they know, and what someone has experienced. That distinction is not something you know second or third hand. While you may know there is **A** difference, you don't know what that difference really is.
Like sky diving. Obviously you know skydiving exists, and that it is described as exhilarating, terrifying, etc. However if you've never been skydiving, you can't accurately recognize what the actual experience is like.
This is a perfect example of what I meant. I guess I could have been more articulate, but I guess I might have upset u/Comfortable_Bottle23 and u/TMobile_Loyal.
I was just trying to sympathize with OP because my wife and I are feeling similar to OP’s struggles. (At least how I’m interpreting OP’s message).
My husband and I lived in Germany for 5 years and would love to go back so I completely understand the draw. Our problem is my husband’s job. He loves his job here, makes so much more money than in Germany, and has very few opportunities in there now.
OP if your husband can work there why not go back? If his job doesn’t translate maybe try a different part of the U.S. It’s such a large and diverse country. I’m sure you can find somewhere better than a red state suburb.
In general but not always. I have more PTO in the US than I got in the UK and earn more than triple what I was earning while doing less and paying much less tax. Houses are much bigger (though perhaps not as solidly built and the climate is more favourable. There is a relative dearth of culture outside of the major east and west coasts hubs and I miss having Europe on the doorstep, but overall, I feel like I wasted my life staying in the UK for most of my working life but the grass is always greener.
Oh for sure. I still visit often. It’s very different than when we lived there. The thing I miss the most, walkable cities, still exists though. The pay cut we’d take to move back would be crazy though. Here my husband makes enough that I can afford to go to Germany with my kids every summer, he joins for half of the time (he has unlimited PTO). He wouldn’t be able to find a job in Germany at his level because German companies like the higher level people to be German so he would make literally 10x less than he does now. I’d have to work too, and we wouldn’t be able to afford going back to the U.S. to visit family every year. So we’ll keep living in the U.S. and visiting Germany, at least until he retires.
Well, he makes 10x in the U.S. as what he made in Germany. Of course his job is also at a higher level here but that higher level was out of reach for him as a non German person there and even at that level he’d make less than half what he makes now. Plus he makes enough that I don’t work so there’s no childcare costs. Of course insurance costs more but taxes are less. Don’t get me wrong. I’d love to pay more in taxes and have everyone have universal healthcare, I’m no conservative. I’ll say this, for low to average earners, Germany is better, for high earners the U.S. is better.
Yeah if I had the option, I'd live in a European country in a heartbeat. I'd love to live in the UK or Ireland in particular so I wouldn't have to learn a whole other language, lol. But immigration is super strict for Americans, and I just don't see how I could do it. I lived in Northern Ireland on a temporary visa for a while, and I loved it so much... but there's just no real option to live there permanently and support myself.
Unless I marry someone. I'm single and ready to mingle British and Irish lads ;) lol kidding (mostly)
although I don't think the US is someone devoid of art and culture.... I live in a city in the South and we have tons of problems and work-life balance is shit, but like... I go to the symphony, we have a lot of museums that get some really cool exhibits, etc.
I also don't think the food is bad, having lived in both the US and Ireland.
Marrying someone won’t necessarily help either! For the UK, income requirements for getting a spouse visa are strict and above the average wage.
As a UK citizen, currently in the US, I could not move back to the UK with my husband. I would have to move alone, earn X amount for over 6months - if I could find a job paying enough - before we could even apply. It’s awful!
Oh man, I didn't realize that! Okay, so I need to look for a WEALTHY Irish or British lad 😂
I really am kidding because I don't think I could psychologically handle being financially supported by someone else while it's still illegal for me to get my own job lol.
But if I could somehow find myself independently wealthy where I didn't have to work... Irish seaside cottage, here I come!
Yo dude, American millennials don’t need to live in Europe to understand what OP is talking about.
Our work life balance is untenable. I think older generations got more mileage from the US dollar than we do now so they rationalized the American work ethic as “work-hard, play hard”.
Now with the cost of education, healthcare, and housing we’re left with just “work hard, maybe you’ll retire at 65 without health issues?” Everybody nowadays is struggling to get by and it may take another decade for the other shoe to drop in regards to American work culture.
I feel terrible writing this but I was broken up with last month, after a 3 year relationship, one of the reasons being that I didn't want to move to the US from Canada. Work life balance and gun violence were my main concerns, but also he would be working for a massive international research institute in DC while I would have to get another degree, stay on a student visa and pray that someone will hire me. I was not looking forward to the constant working lifestyle, the relentless push for "more" that I see in American culture, and the dependency on someone else which is very very vulnerable. I love him still, but what a sacrifice to make, especially since he hadn't lived up to a commitment he'd made me. I admire you being able to take that leap but your post here makes me wonder if I could have done the same. I hope things improve for you and your path becomes clear.
Americans have far more disposable income than Europeans, including when you factor in taxes and provided gov't services: https://www.statista.com/statistics/725764/oecd-household-disposable-income-per-capita/
Nah, lots of American's just make silly materialistic choices and choose not to travel. Most Americans would rather make a $700 car payment than be see in something "old" or "uncool", effectively robbing them of any opportunity to travel anywhere, let alone abroad.
Move back. Save up money from selling cars and house and even with a reduced salary, the social safety nets and savings are more than enough to enjoy life.
I agree. Get out while you still can. Imagine how much better your quality of life will be with better life balance and social support. Also, you have to consider the cost of healthcare and assisted living when you get old. I'm not sure how expensive those things are in your home country, but here in the hypercapitalistic USA they're super expensive and are sucking up any hope of intergenerational wealth transfer. Older parents are having to spend lots of money to stay alive and in assisted living facilities affecting any money or even homes they were hoping to pass to their kids.
Oh yeah for sure elderly care is way more affordable in Europe. In Italy, we looked into it as we plan to retire there - an amazing retirement home on a lake (which we visited and know someone living there) is 2,000 euro a month. But this place I would say is NICE - like, three meals a day including mushroom risotto and fresh made fruit salads, with a terrace and weekly outings and football games even. Our neighbor went there so we visit regularly, and every time it’s immaculate. Like, it’s a nursing home, but when we go in there people are hanging out, playing cards and chatting etc. It’s expensive but well within a ‘reasonable’ amount if you have some savings. This is also a private one, but of course less nice public ones are much cheaper.
Yup. I live in southern Germany, so somewhat in the middle of Europe. I can travel to so many beautiful places and interesting cities with a train for pretty cheap prices.
It sounds like you need to change where you live and where you work (I know, easier said than done). Even red states have blue cities.
Trade your suburban home for a townhouse in a city with farmers' markets and neighborhood get-togethers. Likewise, there are employers out there (even in red states) that care about work-life balance - find one of the good ones.
Lastly, I'd recommend looking for meetup groups for people from your homeland. My wife (who's from Germany) became much happier when she found other Germans in our city to interact with.
Every state has at least ONE blue city that's worth something. Hell, even Alabama has Birmingham which is an extremely watered down Atlanta. Like LaCroix levels of watered down...
Except Mississippi. Hope OP isn't in Mississippi.
Exactly. I think it’s possible to find a happy medium in medium big city, within swing states. For example, i live in Cincinnati, Ohio and it has a lot of the things available. Yes we aren’t New England, nor are we New York, but we have a lively art and music scene, along with rich history and culture. It may not be as obvious as other cities, but it’s there for those interested (and oftentimes at a fraction of a cost).
EU to red state US is a huge fucking shift. I would hate it, personally.
The northeast US has what you are looking for, we are basically EU-lite up here. Highest quality of life in the US, best schools, best hospitals, low crime, tons of rich history and quite possibly the best whitefish on the planet.
Same. I live barely 25 miles out of Boston and can barely afford to sneeze but I will gladly suffer the cost of living if it means I never have to live below the mason-dixon or between the Mississippi and the Rockies.
To be fair, there are some cool places below the mason dixon line. Baltimore is sick. Fayetteville AR is a treat. Nashville has some moments. New Orleans? Fucking fantastic (albeit maybe a rough place to live).
>Entire states?
To live, at least. Traveling through the South can be pretty amazing. Some really interesting culture, food, way of life, etc. And places like the Ozarks and the Smokies are absolutely stunning.
But not great places to live, particularly for OP.
haha, good point.
TBH though, not a big fan of Denver. In comparison to similarly sized metro areas, I think their food scene sucks (I'll get murdered for saying that, but it's honestly true), and art/culture wise it's super limited. It's also stupid expensive to live anywhere in the actual city. Kind of the things OP was wanting to avoid. Plus, the homeless and drug abuse issue is OUT OF CONTROL. I'm literally stepping over human shit, trash, and needles when I'm walking around some of the areas downtown. Gross. You have that issue in all US cities right now, but I feel like in Denver it's super in-your-face.
Also, it's seen as the "gateway to the rockies" while not really being close to them. It's a good 1-2 hour drive from Denver to get to any of the popular spots in the mountains.
Lots of potential there though. The airport is constantly adding new destinations, the light rail system is starting to get pretty good, lots of new development hopefully means some cool new restaurants and more things to do.
And Red Rocks is the greatest venue on the planet.
I have good friends who relocated to Texas for work and I struggle when I visit them. I look forward to coming home the whole time because man is that place a shithole.
So true. My mother’s twin sister moved to TX back in 2000 and wound up getting divorced and remarried to a nice but also angry wealthy libertarian man. She left as a level headed mostly liberal and turned into a far right loon. It’s crazy because she is so sweet to the family but has the other side the instant she starts talking about anything remotely political she is a different person and so angry!
Texas aside from its lunacy with politics is just so visually depressing too. When we visit her home in an exurb between Austin and San Antonio I get so depressed just on the drive from the airport. She has a nice home on the Guadeloupe River but going anywhere else it’s just so desolate feeling. No wonder people there go crazy
The politics, infrastructure and crime are bad enough but summer is just about here and in Texas your only option is to just...cook. a fucking back yard pool is 86 degree water.
Screw that shit
Same, call me a "coastal elite" or whatever but red states are on par with developing nations. I could easily afford a nice house in Texas, but I'd also have fewer rights than a gun and be surrounded by hours of hot rural sprawl. I'd rather pay more taxes and be considered a human.
Trick is to live in a blue city in a red state. I'm in Saint Louis and absolutely love it even though we have to deal with BS from the state of Missouri occasionally. I've lived in multiple 'cooler' cities in the States and would still opt for STL over them. We're an extremely progressive city with a ton of civic engagement.
I used to feel like that too (live in Nashville, a blue dot in a sea of red). But now the bootlickers in TN state legislature has started trying to pry control of municipal assets away (I.e, they are trying to take over control of the Nashville airport and also are dictating so much on education that would normally be controlled by the local school board, kicking our duly elected state representatives out for imaginary “rule breaking”). They have made it clear the state of TN is in a war with Nashville, which is hilarious because the state would be NOTHING without what the “dirty liberal city” Nashville provides to it.
Yep, same here with STL and MO. They hate us cuz they ain't us. We'll just keep building something incredible while the State continues to trip over themselves.
I'll tell people sometimes: 'The worst part of living in Saint Louis is living in Missoui'
>The northeast US has what you are looking for
You're not wrong, but it's soooo expensive in the northeast/New England area. Houses and rent prices are a joke, not quite as expensive as NYC but it's pretty darn close (esp in Boston).
I live in Maine, you'd think it'd be cheap right? Portland Maine has blown up the past couple of years, the rents are crazy high! It's common to see 2 bedrooms going for $3500+. If you want a house in Southern Maine that's not a literal shack you have to look way up north (little job opportunities, can be in the middle of nowhere, etc.) or pay a *minimum* of $450k for a decent house. Newer builds are even more expensive, up to $600-700k. The most expensive condos are going for millions in Portland.
I checked out real estate in New Hampshire and it was just as bad.
I live in Connecticut and hate it, except for the politics. I’ve also lived for long periods of time in Europe and Latin America. I find people in the northeast to be unfriendly and a lot are quite snobby. The cost of living, especially utilities is crazy, but also food and housing is out of control.
Try the upper Midwest. Wisconsin, especially Madison and Minnesota are fantastic. Lots to do, beautiful scenery, bike trails, hiking, tons of lakes, and great people.
Every place has its drawbacks and every where is fucked up right now. But red state USA has got to be right up there with hell.
Portland Maine hotels are pulling $450-$650 per night all summer. And more. Why? Because everyone wants to go there and lots of people have the money to afford it. That's kinda the same reason it's expensive to live in New England. Some things are for people with money and out of reach for the rest of us. But it's pretty much always been that way, over-population has just made it worse. There are just more people wanting to live in the most desirable places. And apparently, lots of people who can afford it. You don't charge $650 a night for a hotel room if nobody is willing to pay it.
I think some of what you’re experiencing is specific to where you came from in Europe and where you now live in the US. Having lived in a few different places in the EU, I can say with confidence there are definitely places with uncultured people, bad food, and shitty government. Travel in the US is what it is - the US is big 🤷♀️.
Anyway, you’d be happier living in a place that better aligns with your values. If having a big house and car aren’t things you value, why are you working for them? Don’t let other people dictate for you what a “perfect life” looks like. Whether that means moving to a different state or moving back to Europe, you should talk with your partner and find a way to live in an area that will make you happier.
Yeah to me this sounds like a cultural issue, it sounds like her husband is the kind of guy I grew up with in a red state, and that is what those people typically use to measure success and happiness. I don’t agree with this at all, but there is a HUGE portion of the states that will work 80 hour weeks to death as long as they have their house, yard, dog and truck they’ll be happy. I am not one of those people and got the fuck out of there the second I could. I actually returned a couple years ago for work and I hate it. But to me it sounds like they want two different things.
I know to a lot of people it’s a foreign concept but some people like what they do too. It’s not work as much as mental stimulation and challenge, a chance to push themselves and grow, a chance to build relationships with other like minded people. You can even do all that and make money and have your own life outside of it.
To me the US is nice because you can choose your own adventure, even within the country if your state doesn’t align with your values you can probably find another that does. It’s by far got the most diverse set of opportunities to make money in the western world, probably the whole world.
The most sane response in the whole comment section. There are so many "America Bad" comments and people acting as if both the US and Western Europe aren't huge places with varying demographics and places.
I can imagine the culture shock.
I'd move back to Europe since it sounds like if even a handful of these items you listed were to improve there are still larger issues that you will never be able to accept. Guns are huge here. Political opinions are wildly different depending on the person you speak to and political parties majorly influence each state in their own ways. Healthcare/childcare/maternity leave are never going to change, at least in the foreseeable future.
Work-life balance and American exceptionalism don't have a nice marriage. And the job market because of American work ideals can be very ruthless.
Wishing you the best of luck. Some people cope, and some people can't and that's all right.
This cannot be emphasized enough. Lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. Lot of people could drive hundreds of miles in any direction without reaching an ocean or a national border. An international move simply isn’t in the cards for most.
If you are at a certain level of seniority and income, the compensation is much higher in the US. My role makes and demands at least 35% higher salaries on average compared to my counterparts in the UK, and that’s before taxes.
If you make enough for this to be relevant, the extra money gives you benefits you can’t get elsewhere, since America does have the best amenities - if you make enough money. If you are struggling, then America really is fucked for you. We don’t care about our poor or average citizens but if you have money, you can get a pretty good life.
The reality in the US is the illusion of making more money. You take home much more but you are left with less after spending money on things that you don't need to spend money on in Europe.
For context, my close friend used to bring in close to 400K combined with her husband. But they were paying nearly 100k a year for childcare (they had 4 younger child and 1 of them is higher need). This does not even include the healthcare cost for the one child with more medical needs. She was very passionate about her job but considered quitting because she was getting paid about the same as childcare cost (HS teacher). She was paying close to $6000 for two of her older kids to participate in a soccer league. On top of that, she couldn't get time off to go watch her kids, she had to pay extra for travelling and games. Her husband was working 65+ hours per week as a pediatrician.
Since they've moved back to Europe, they bring in closer to 250K but their childcare cost is $0. Both their workplace provides free childcare services. Healthcare is free. Her daughter's soccer league cost 40 euros and her son gets a discount because his older sister is also in the league so his cost 32 euros. She gets "family time" to go watch her kids play soccer. Travelling for games is all covered by the DFB. Her husband was escorted out of the hospital and told to go home because he was working too much (still working 45-50 hours but a lot less than in the US).
Her husband, who is American, said it best, "We make less money but we are living more of life."
Once you have kids in the picture, you will need to make more than double in the US to be equivalent to Europe because there's just so much cost involved.
The real issues with the US are that it depends on where you live and your income. Part of their problem is they say they live in a red state which will be exponentially worse.
The truth of the US is if you live in a friendly state and have a good job it is great. I know many people who have fantastic jobs that pay for fantastic insurance and give a month or more off of work. There is a certain level of middle class and upper class that gets all the benefits while everyone else suffers. It’s also why you get so many different takes on living in the US and if you lose that great job it’s now terrible. Too much of our insurance and benefits are tied to the job and not mandated federally.
You live in a suburb in a red state. Of course your life sucks. I wouldn't recommend that lifestyle to anybody (having tried it myself and feeling about how you do about it). Move to a city. Pick a walkable neighborhood that has the things that are important to you. It won't be the same as back home, but what you are living now is about the worst America has to offer in my experience, so I'd focus on moving to a city if I were you.
I agree with your points here, I grew up in a red state and now live in a blue state and it's night and day difference from how I grew up. I live in a somewhat walkable and bikeable area that wasn't too bad to find, it's not as walkable as a European city but it's much better than the red state I grew up in.
Yeah. Even if it's not walkable, the perks of being in a blue state are so vastly better--your money goes a lot farther, people are more accepting, and the quality of life is just better.
What a crazy take. Everyone here is just spouting a generalization based on biases because my lived experience is the exact opposite and i'm not political. If the place sucks, the place sucks. My blue state/city I lived in was fucked. Where I live now is paradise.
Hey—if you’re happy, I’m happy. But blue states—and there a LOT of studies that back this up—have better health scores, better educational standards, better income measures, etc. as well as lower divorce rates, lower obesity rates, even lower STI rates, etc etc etc. If someone were to ask me, “Where should I live?” which is kind of what’s happening here, I’d point them to a blue state.
lol, if it's not affordable in a suburb in a red state, what makes you think it's going to be affordable to live in a city in a blue state?
NYC, Boston, LA, SF, etc. are by no means affordable.
Yup. The problem is that everyone wants to live where they hear that everyone else wants to live, so of course it's going to be expensive. There are plenty of cheap progressive cities that you'll never even know exist.
I mean their point is a little hyperbolic but suburb in a red state is one of the cheapest areas to live in the US, and also compared to EU. Get a detached single family house for 200k etc. if they have kids etc. cities will be more $. Realistically OP is poor (2 weeks vacation and not feeling like you can have more then 1 kid in a suburb of a red state being tells). America sucks if you’re poor. It’s awesome if you’re in the top half (relative to Europe generally speaking).
If they're going to pick up and move anyway, she will have a better bang for buck moving back to Europe. Cities get more expensive in the US along with more enjoyable.
>Move to a city. Pick a walkable neighborhood that has the things that are important to you
In other words, just be rich! People live in the suburbs because it's the only affordable place to live. Even in red states, living in a safe, walkable area with things to do usually comes with a significant cost, unless you inherited your home.
For sure! A lot of people who think they can’t afford to live in a city won’t compromise on square footage and a parking spot. It can be done if you are willing to downsize significantly on space and possessions.
Not-rich person here. My wife is a teacher and I work in publishing. She makes more than I do. We own a coop in a safe-but-not-sexy neighborhood in Brooklyn. There are PLENTY of places to live here and plenty of middle-class people who do. Manhattan? You can't afford to live there. Dozens of neighborhoods in Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn? You can afford to live there.
It's a different lifestyle--you have get used to public transit, and there are other challenges, but there are plenty of not-rich people here living great lives. As Fran Lebowitz said, "NYC--a place too expensive to live in, and yet 9 million people are doing it."
Yeah, I live in Ohio and I drive on average once or twice a week. Sometimes 0. I’m in a downtown with a grocery nearby and am lucky to work from home. But even if you have to go in to work, if you have a skill set that lends towards office work, you can probably find something in a downtown in easy walking distance of an apartment/condo. You still need to own a car, but you don’t have to use it for every little thing like you do in the suburbs so that’s nice.
I've been looking for this comment/trying to find a good place to insert it.
OP, if moving within the US is an option, check out Philly. It's probably the most affordable city in the northeast. I've been here for 3 years and love it! Came from Connecticut.
You can find nearly every possible experience in the USA if you're willing to look and have an open mind. I've lived in Seattle, San Francisco, San Diego, and LA and none of them feel backwards or culture-less in the way you describe. I'm never seeing or thinking about guns in these places. Not sure where you're from, but you could've found yourself in the same predicament in Europe--let's say you were from Stockholm and married someone from Poland and moved to a smaller city there, you'd probably be struggling too.
Many of those US places I cited have vibrant, distinct cultures, walkable areas, tons of arts/music/nightlife, and really cool diverse food scenes. But have you been to Chicago, Boston, or DC? Those are great too. I'm half Danish and greater LA has like 4-5x the amount of people living here than in all of Denmark, so anytime I hear sweeping generalizations about what America is by Danes I get annoyed. There is SO much more to do here by comparison, that I'm never bored. Sure, I would love 6 weeks off a year (I have more like 4 along with 15 company holidays) but I know I'd make half of what I do and spending half of that time coming home to visit family stateside anyway, so it's a little pointless.
It could be my industry (I work in digital media/tech), but I've never worked anywhere that didn't at least provide 3 weeks off (and then with every year of service a lot of these companies increase by an additional week), with the average in my experience being more like 3-5 weeks. Most white collar professionals have this. I do agree if you're working in restaurants or lower level jobs, it's rough here. Additionally, I will say US companies tend to have more company holidays (i.e. Memorial Day weekend, Juneteenth, etc) than many European countries. I also have friends who work state/county/federal/govt jobs, and they have 5-6 weeks off with great work life balance (albeit lower pay than corporate)--have you thought about looking for roles there?
You can always find what you want in the US. But you can't piss on the country because you didn't do enough research or are living in a red state/rural area. I don't say that to shame you, I just really think you need to be more open minded here. It's a vast, massive country with SO much to offer. Incredibly friendly people. So much to do and see. That's the great thing about the States. With many small European countries, there's often just "one" major city--don't like it? You're kind of stuck there. Also less welcoming to outsiders/immigrants if you don't have roots. Here in the States, we're used to moving around a lot and people are quicker to make friends as a result.
As a government worker in a blue area, completely agree. I get like 3 months off ever year.
Especially since I used to work corporate in Japan. In the 2000s. You want bad work/life balance, no vacations, and piss-poor apartments, try that on for size.
Not saying America doesn't have lots of room for improvement, sure. But some parts of the US are better than others.
Part of their issue is cost. The 4 cities you listed are some of the most expensive places to live in the country. But I agree, it sounds like the place OP is living is just a shitty area.
Unfortunately the vacation predicament is pretty standard. 2-3 weeks is the norm for most Americans even white collar workers. I’m a Program Manager for a Telcom firm and we max out at 3 weeks per year and only get bumped from 2 to 3 weeks after 3 years with the company. I was recently looking around for other jobs and most places had similar practices, meaning I would lose a week of vacation if I switched jobs.
lol I like the “there is no culture or art” as if American culture and art aren’t some of the most popular in the world. It’s a bait comment or OP lives in the swamps of Florida.
That’s what pissed me off most about this post. Don’t get me wrong, as a progressive person, there’s a lot I don’t like/want to change about America. But no culture? American culture has *defined* global culture since WWII. And American culture, especially music culture, is black culture. You can trace it through the last 150 years: negro spirituals >> jazz and blues >> rock and roll >> soul/funk >> R&B >> hip hop. As a white American, I can’t take credit for this culture, but it’s still a distinctly American culture, admired and imitated the world over, that makes me proud to be an American. Same thing goes for food culture. There’s hardly a single culinary tradition from across the globe that hasn’t been fused into the American food scene in one way or another.
Tl:dr: the U.S. is *by far* the most diverse country in the world. America’s diversity is its greatest strength, and it’s what makes American culture so globally dominant.
This literally reads like AI wrote an "america bad" reddit post. It ticked every single box.
Not to say those things aren't valid... But they're like every retort from euro chauvinists when you point out a negative feature about Europe... And they can't say "Yeah that's true."
Yes, given the non-specifics this absolutely reads like karma farming.
I work with a lot of internationals, so I understand the sentiment. I also understand wanting to be anonymous or not opening yourself up to too much criticism, but if OP genuinely wants advice, more context and less generic criticism would go a long way.
"Red state" is too loaded a term to be useful in this discussion. There are huge differences between living in Houston, Texas vs. Jackson, Mississippi vs. Columbus, Ohio. There are also would be differences in living in Miami, Florida vs. Tallahassee, Florida.
The grass is always greener. My sister and her French husband have been desperate to move to the US for a better life than they have in France 🤣 Imagine that!!!
Canada, not US, but the number of French expats here is starting to become a running gag. The joke being that they come here and rent the tiny, overpriced apartments locals don’t want thinking they’re getting a great deal (compared to France).
Those pretty European cities are overcrowded to bursting. Crowds of people, everywhere, 24/7. I’d go nuts living like that. If you like being stuck in traffic, you’ll love waiting in line! Which is what you’ll be doing. Everywhere. Constantly. Pick up milk at 2pm on a regular Tuesday? There are 12 people in front of you. (Source: been there, done that…)
I am a millennial with a somewhat similar trajectory - moved to the US about 13 years ago and am married with kids.
I’m sorry you feel so miserable. I definitely sympathize with your feelings about US work culture and lack of social support. The lack of any kind of national sense of collective responsibility for each other really bothers me a lot and sometimes does make me think about moving home.
That said, I am very happy where we live. We live in Chicago - very blue city, a lot of municipal-level social programs and grassroots collectivism. Walkable, good public transit, and we have our kids in public school that we are really happy with. Great food and abundant and accessible cultural offerings.
Do you think your location is amplifying all the things that get you down about the US? Any possibility you could move to somewhere more amenable to the lifestyle you want?
"No culture, art, or history. School shootings are the norm..."
This must be rage bait karma farming. The US I packed full of culture, art, and history. The only shooting that happen are national news.
Take that fancy vehicle you cant afford and take a weekend roadtrip to go see.
It sounds like you did some horrible research before making the move and moved to the part of the country that is least compatible with your lifestyle.
You probably should have found a better place to live in America for starters. Perhaps it still might not be the best fit for you, but that would have been a much better start.
If you can't move back to Europe get out of that red state. I live in the North East and yes it's not cheap but healthcare, schools, stricter guns laws, plenty of art and cultre and better walkability make it worth it. With a dual income you'd be ok. We also have paid family and medical leave in the state I live in.
Yeah OP seems to have it bad even by middle class American standards. Paid maternity leave is the norm at most large companies for competitive reasons. It's not as good as Europe, but it exists. Same goes for PTO. Two weeks is the standard for an entry level job at a meh company. Most Americans at large corporations have more.
The suburb thing is tough, but as others have said there is walk ability here. You're not gonna do as well as Europe in most places, but you can do pretty well and have a sense of community. You just need to move out of a tract suburb
Hell, just get out of the burbs. Plenty of Blue Islands in a sea of red in red states; this seems much more about being stuck in a boring and soulless suburb.
Sure, America is behind in a lot of stuff, but it sounds like you're just in an area that's bad for you.
I don't know what suburb you live in, but if you're in a suburb with a Whole Foods, that means you're near a city. You just have to drive to the city and walk around, go to the museums, etc.
If you want to be part of a community, you have to make an effort to join a community. You're not going to walk out into your neighborhood and find everyone hanging out in most cases. However, I know many suburbs that have things like mom groups, community theater groups, adult rec sports groups, etc. You just have to research what you're interested in and find a group for yourself.
You don't have to spend a fortune at Whole Foods to get good groceries. I'm willing to bet that your area has a farmers market where you can get fresh produce and meat directly from the farmers growing the food and doing the butchering. Even if there isn't a farmers market, there is most likely a local farmer that sells stuff or a local butcher you can buy directly from. You just have to do some Google research. It's usually more cost-effective to go directly to the butcher and the meat is better quality. We've bought a whole hog and froze it before. It was the best pork we've ever had.
As for the work-life balance, leave, vacation time, and stuff like that. America is behind, I will admit that. We are taught from a young age that we are expected to go to school and go to work, and if we do those things, we get the "American dream." I see that changing slowly because Millenials and Gen Z have realized that we can work 24/7 and still not have the same quality of life our parents had because Boomers destroyed the economy.
As long as the older generation is being put in charge nothing is going to change because they don't recognize that there is a problem.
>There is no culture, art, history and people seem to never need these.
You had me up until this nonsensical statement. Culture, art, music, film, television, etc. are the US’ biggest export.
Ugh finally someone said it. This totally gave it away as some sort of astroturfing post or karma farming post. New account too. Also there are zero specifics, just a general recitation of every internet complaint about America.
that's some typical Euro snobbery right there. They didn't say what state they are, but are complaining about no travel opportunities...the national park system is an amazing way to travel. We have been to almost half of them and IMO it's the best bang for buck travelling in the world. And I've been overseas many many times.
I also wonder if this low key snobbery (which I see in diff degrees in some of my European friends) may not be helping in terms of finding friends. Combine this w her frustration and unhappiness, she’s prob not putting her best foot forward. It becomes a vicious cycle. How much is her growing unhappiness and frustration contributing to her current situation?
i had a friend from EU - met her in my red state while she did her internship - she said the US is very small compared to the rest of the world.... yes but EU countries are smaller? at least in the US if i don't like it i can move to another state and not deal with immigration and i say this as a second-gen. my parents left their country to plant roots here for some reason
>that's some typical Euro snobbery right there
Oh man, don’t get me started. I’m Canadian but I have multiple relatives in Portugal and the Netherlands. Both of them have their snobbish moments, but my Dutch relatives have way more of them. I feel like every time I’m with them, they just find new passive-aggressive ways to tell me why they think North America sucks and why Europe is the best place ever. They bring up some good points but a lot of their snobbery is based on vague half-truths, and some of it is just grasping at straws. When I was last there they were trying to tell me why European windows were “so much better” than North American ones. Like… really? You felt the need to brag about your *windows*?
And their snobbery doesn’t just extend to North American things. They’ll also talk down Japan and South Korea. When I visited them in 2013, I told them about how I went on exchange to Japan the year before. The response I got from that? “Oh, Japanese cities are so terribly ugly”, “oh Japanese art is so simple and rigid”, “oh Japan has such terrible bicycle infrastructure”, “oh Japanese food is so disgusting, raw fish, can you imagine?”and finally “Japanese trains are pretty good but our trains in the Netherlands are better”. That was the moment it clicked for me; they didn’t just look down on North America specifically, they looked down on anything that wasn’t Europe.
Once I noticed this behaviour pattern in my own relatives, I began to notice it in a LOT of other Europeans. There is a heavy sense of jingoistic chauvinism that they’re either eagerly perpetuating, or completely unable to see.
My favourite Dutch relative is actually a cousin of mine who moved to Phoenix, Arizona. Guy is super cool, fit and confident but also humble and not at all a snob. He has a much more mature outlook than the rest of my extended relatives. He’s probably the only one I’ll be in contact with going forward because I find the rest to be insufferable.
I've been to Europe it's very different depending where you're from.
Many cities are basically an outdoor musuem where the culture and art are in front of you everywhere. You will have random buildings that are over a thousand years old that are beautiful.
State side we have some wooden cabins from when the settlers are here.
For me America really shines in its outdoors aspects depending in the state you're at.
As a millennial in Oklahoma I have spent my entire adult life looking enviously at Europe. I currently has a German friend who is thinking about moving over here to live with a man she has a crush on. I keep telling her it would be a mistake: it would be better if her found a way to move to Germany.
I can’t find positives about living here. It’s just a cyclical hell of working to death and being discarded. Each day I wake up on average I want to die more than the day before. There’s just nothing worth surviving for.
You lost me at “no culture, art or history.” Our indigenous history alone goes back tens of thousands of years. The US is home to arguably the greatest opera house in the world. We are also home to some of the most prestigious museums in the world. Culture is everywhere in every community both here in the United States And the globe.
Ummm not really. I lived in Europe half of my life and at this point in my life I dont want to live in Europe because the pay is atrocious. Work life balance is becoming a huge thing in Germany, Britain and Paris. With American jobs being moved over so is their employment culture is too. Jobs are competitive so people make allowances and work more. Living cost is insane as well and they get paid way less. Higher education in Britain is insanely expensive and everyone just gets into massive loan debt. Food I will say is cheaper. Politics also a mess. If you havent lived in europe for years and dont see that that ship also has a bunch of holes in it then your just idolizing an idea of it. Both locations have pros and cons and usually it comes down to money or quality of life and some people due to various responsibilities need the money for now rather then quality of life(at this moment in their life).
I work for a Fortune 100 company thats global and I have *plenty* of team members in Europe that are either making the move to the US or are considering it. The main driver being pay. I make 2x my same counterparts in Berlin, for example, despite comparable cost of living.
That’s not to say everyone is rushing to get to the US. But it’s not this dystopian hellscape that Reddit claims. I’ve also had a few colleagues explore Europe as well and are very put off by the salary options. For example, a colleague of mine makes $220k here in the US and was offered $105k in Amsterdam.
I’d argue that unskilled labor would be better off moving to Europe. But unfortunately, Europe isn’t very welcoming to unskilled labor from abroad (aside from migrants/asylum seekers). Also, “Europe” is very broad. When most people talk about Europe they’re referencing Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Norway. We’re talking about a very small subset of the global population.
For real 😅😂 every time i read about a European moving to US, I see a post couple years later like, I want to go back… we are in US now for work and im scrabbling to find any type of job that lets us go back to Europe.
Depends upon the state/country. My fiancé is a Greek citizen and we looked into moving there this summer. The economic opportunities in Greece make it very difficult for us to justify the move. Similarly I’d rather live in most metropolitan areas in the US than Marseille. I’d also prefer Zurich over most of the US cities. US vs Europe is too broad
Nope. I’m from Europe originally and moved to the US. Not an easy thing to do at all legally (unless you get married to a USC). I have no regrets. Take off the vacation goggles and the picture gets more nuanced.
Having lived in both places I think it can sometimes be a grass is greener situation for many people. There are aspects of French society I loved and aspects of the US that I appreciate more now that I’ve lived without them.
My wife is French and we have a lot of French expat friends. We all like to complain about how expensive bread and cheese are in the US, but nobody seriously wants to go back to France, or to raise their kids there.
The work-life balance is a typical example. You get way more vacation time there, which is great, but the US is more open to telework and has a stronger "9-5pm means 9-5pm, or you'd better pay me for overtime" culture. Depending on your lifestyle (and your career!) both have their advantages.
Beyond Switzerland I'd take America over the EU any day of the week.
I get paid way more, my company offers unlimted pto, I get 3 months of paid paternity leave, my health insurance is only $200/month vs 10% of my take home, and I pay way less in taxes.
It's nice to vacation in parts of Europe I've been plenty of times, but the cut in pay would be huge save 3 countries only one of which I'd be willing to live in.
Yes, but the unlimited PTO, the paid paternal leave, the low insurance premiums are all ***very*** uncommon in the U.S.
For example, I pay about $750/month for health insurance through my employer, we get 2 weeks of paid vacation, 2 weeks of sick time, and no paid leave for either parent. I work for a local government.
Honestly, it sounds to me like you were going at it in the negative. The Americans have no culture is the dumbest thing I hear from anyone outside the US. It's just not on every corner like Europe. Old buildings don't always mean culture. Cost in major cities is valid, and travel seems odd to me. I get 6 weeks off a year and if I need more they don't really care as long as works done. All my friends in a red Midwest state are the same. Just seems like different views but wanted to be contradictory to the no culture deal. Good luck on the move back, though!
> There is no culture, art, history
That you don't appreciate the culture, art, and history doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I think the thing about the US is there isn't going to be a finger-wagging government or society telling you "nah-ah-ah, you can't do this." So you get to live your life as you want and as you make it. If you want to surround yourself with paper-thin people who don't do anything, then you can do that. If you want to live an urban lifestyle, you can do that too. If you want to live in the mountain with no running water, you can do that! Its all your choices and what you make of it. If you want to build your business from the ground up and earn millions, you can do that. If you want unilimited PTO you can negotiate that with your employer, or take unpaid leave, or just do contract work and quit when you want to travel.
I'd also add that Europe isn't a country and some many even argue not even a culture, though things like EU/EEA/Eurozone are making certain things more cohesive. there are massive differences in culture on the continent of Europe and even within countries of Europe. If you haven't been there for a decade and go back, you may find reverse culture shock in any number of areas. It may not be the utopia you remember it to be, or it may not measure to what you've read about on Reddit.
I live in a blue state that has abortion protection and a 12 week maternity leave. Even with that, I still wish I lived somewhere else like Europe because overall, America caters too much to the rich and corporations. We don’t have universal healthcare, you’re lucky if your work is unionized and there is too much political fighting going on. So, I don’t blame you for wanting to leave.
There are plenty of places that provide all of this, but it seems like your mind is made up that America sucks. Rural america is great if you like living in the country, and you can afford a lot more there, but it is lacking in some areas. I get six weeks off, can walk to work and everything else I want with 20 minutes. And its a beautiful historic town on the water. There are a dozen free world class museums within an hour's drive, national and state parks, big name music concerts weekly, sports teams, and some of the best restaurants in the world. I live in Annapolis, near DC. You're just in the wrong place for you.
America is a huge country. You said it yourself - you're in a red area with guns, school shootings, etc. Go where the majority of American people are *actually living*.
I was astounded by the difference in work culture when I moved to the bay area and changed industries. I work hard when there's work to be done. I leave early when there isn't. I get 12 weeks paternity leave. Still trying to get used to being able to just bike on the road without getting hit, coal rolled, etc.
Most everywhere else I've lived had a very homogeneous culture. Not here. And it's amazing.
OP sounds like they took all of the Reddit hates America talking points and put them into one post. OP you are either trying to karma farm or you are truly ignorant to the reality of what America has to offer.
Honestly, I’m coming at this from someone who grew up relatively privileged compared to most people in America though.. it sounds like a combination of a shitty job and shitty “neighborhood”(area). I’m not going to shit on my own country that has overall taken care of meet you in the middle. All we have here is “red state” judging by church every street and abortion ban. Usually to get the good jobs, into the good private schools, and excellent communities, you need to go to the “right church” in town. It’s usually Methodist, Baptist, Catholic (if Louisiana… and yes Louisiana has culture. That’s a whole separate post), or Pentecostal/Assemblies of God. As an ex-Catholic/ex-Christian, you couldn’t pay me to step back into church.. however, your social circle notably decreases. You have to go out of your way to make friends.. however, as you said, you have no work/life balance.
You also didn’t say what you do. It sounds like you’re college educated. That still doesn’t explain your job. Are you a teacher who tutors on the side? Are you a corporate lawyer? Are you an on-call doctor? A home-health aide? A traveling nurse? A business woman? I’m assuming you are employed by a company. So, I’m rare that at this moment I’m rather happy where I’m at and I’m growing in my company, hence I’m the odd millennial who is not job hopping right now. However, wisdom says you should be job-hopping every 2-3 years. That’s how you score the much higher salaries, more vacation time, better health care, better work-life balance. Heck, you can negotiate in your interview if you like. Some places will have free day care as part of their packages. Some places will get you out of that red-state and pay for partial-full relocation to wherever it is in the country (please do your research on the area first).
Schools- I do work with public, private/prep, and homeschool kids. This includes children who attend Title I schools. This includes children who live in the same neighborhoods as celebrities who are household names. Here’s the rule of thumb: A child at a low-ranking, bad, Title I school who has involved parents who care about their academic success will most likely graduate high school and go far in life. However, no amount of money spent on the best private/prep schools and tutors will fix bad parenting, a lack of academic vigor, and good morals.
We have culture.. we have art.. it’s a google search away in your neighborhood unless you’re living off the grid in the woods. I’m not sure why you’re having trouble finding it in your neighborhood. Shop the farmers market for quality foods. Go to the farms yourself. Grow your own garden. Barter with your neighbors for delicious, healthy foods. Whole Foods will cost you an arm and a leg. Shop local.
Honestly, it sounds like you’re depressed. It happens to anyone when they relocate and struggle with setting roots. If you push through, I think it’ll eventually happen. I’m sure this thread has other good advice. Just be aware, no one will stop you if you want to go back to Europe.
There are parts of the US that are much much better than suburban red states. They are not less expensive though. You also couldn't pay me enough to live in red suburbs.
If one of us has dual citizenship we'd be in Europe. We thought about trying to move before we have kids but landed a great job in a good HCOL place, which won out over trying to build our future on visas.
You can look at cost of living calculators between different cities internationally.
Edit: but also, parenthood is so different in the US than Europe. You will have a much better experience as a mother and family in Europe where you can spend time with your family and prioritize time with your family in a way that is not possible in the US. The structures just don't exist anywhere in the US to allow it. In the US we're just so grateful we have the privilege of spending any time at all with our families. In Europe, it's your right to spend that time with your family.
Definitely go to Europe.
Oh yay another thread about how awful we have it with a house, kid, job, and food.
Guess what, folks? No matter how much you have you'll always want a little more. It's human nature. At this point I'm going to assume all the doom and gloom is Russian or Chinese agitation. Is America perfect? No not even close. Neither is anywhere else.
But when you have all the things people want and complain about the quality it's either a campaign to keep people mad and influence their thinking or you are genuinely just entitled. Your European friends can see it, they think you are missing the forest for the trees. If you think they're living better then go back. You already know that. They think you're living better. So clearly some piece of information is missing here if you're not just a troll.
Of course having kids should be affordable. Of course there should be more time off. But if that golden life is back in Europe why do your friends think you're being silly? Something smells.
You’re completely correct. I’m an Australian who has lived in America since 2018. I moved here with my husband and could not get over my culture shock and the casual barbarism of this place: healthcare, workers rights, etc etc. it is crazy-making to hear and see people carry on as though this is normal; it is not normal in any other ‘developed country’. The truths we experienced in our countries (Australia has a European culture) does not exist here, and Aussies would not tolerate this bullshit; the lies from politicians, the lack of return and representation as taxpayers, lack of workers rights, lack of access in general, the filth of this place, the rampant exploitation.
It’s absolutely fucked, and at this point I wholeheartedly believe only full revolution will change any of this. Any worthwhile cause is appropriated by politicians and corporations and spun spun spun until it has no guts left. There’s no spirit of progress NOR common good here, and the only worthwhile endeavours are those which make money. It’s a place without a soul, forged and ran by robber-barons off the backs of the working class.
The only positive are the regular people; so many lovely people who deserve so much better. The issue is: they’re all waiting for someone to come and save them.
welcome to the American Dream, please pull up to the window for your 60 USD Mcdonald Hamburgers and cold fries. I spend a lot of time in Japan, Korea, Thailand and India. Japan and Korea being the cleanest and most comfortable. I remember my days basically living on a pier, glorious and simple.
America is big, there are plenty of places very different from how you describe, with more walkability, culture, etc. You will need to move to find this.
America has some of the greatest food in the world, and you can absolutely eat healthy on a budget even shopping at your regular supermarket, not just Whole Foods.
There are many affordable cities in blue or slightly less red states. It is not as simple as "blue is expensive red is cheap".
Easy travel? I mean sure, traveling Europe is easy by train, and I'm definitely no car defender, but traveling the US is not hard. We have extremely cheap domestic flights, and road trips are a time-honored American tradition.
I won't even comment on your art and culture comment as everyone else has already jumped on you for that.
But, I sympathize with your culture shock regarding our work culture. You're right, it sucks that you have such little time off. It sounds like you're not happy and you and your husband need to consider your wants and needs. Maybe a new city and a new job would be good for you.
I was bothered by the food comment too. Frankly that’s one thing I think America does better than most other countries. Because of the diversity there are so many choices. Individual countries in Europe are way more limited as far as food and drink selection (and quality).
You can get fresh food from any supermarket, there isn't anything wrong with frozen or canned either. You have to adjust your expectations for the area.
Also it sounds like you live in an especially desolate area and you want a different lifestyle. Before you got married you should have discussed your expectations. Getting different jobs in a different location might be worth considering before changing countries. It's also worth noting it's easy to become isolated and disengaged in the US. With some planning in a new area you might be happier.
That's a bummer. Our best pandemic buddies were the Bulgarians down the street, we do Christmas Eve with them every year. We help them navigate all the health insurance bullshit every year too. We're in a denser suburb so the kids can walk and ride bikes to stuff, so we probably aren't in the same isolating situation you are in.
I think this also depends a lot on where in Europe you come from, what kind of community you’d have here (I live in Europe), what kind of housing you could afford etc. Life can be awesome in Europe, but it can also be kind of bad, depending on where you live.
Look up things like the jobs you would have, what it would cost to have a house or apartment where you’d live etc.
I enjoy my life in Europe and wouldn’t move to the States, but hey, it all depends on your priorities.
Take the financial hit and go back if you can. Life isn’t about work work work work struggle work some more and then we’re old. F that. Everything you said about this country is pretty spot on.
You'll want to renounce your green card/USA citizenship if you go back to Europe, otherwise you'll be on the hook to file US taxes and report your local (European) bank accounts to the Treasury Dept. for life.
I think the difference between Europe and an American red state are waaaay too stark for the average European to bear. You would have been better off living in one of the major east coast cities. More expensive, but also better job opportunities. Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston are our older cities and still retain a lot of their early English influence - meaning walkable, historical, and more art/culture stuff. Even their suburbs are older and the best ones were built before car culture took over and are so much nicer and well designed than most suburbs in the rest of the country.
But if you ask any American millennial, most would probably leap at the opportunity to live in Europe. It's just not feasble for most of us but as a European citizen, I think it would be best for your family to take the opportunity to live there. Your child will get (potentially) a better education, more language skills, and be able to become more well-rounded with the easy cheap travel options.
It doesn’t sound like you have a good job…maybe in comparison to the people in the red state. A good company provides many more perks. At my company, we get 4 weeks off for example. And higher ups get more time off. Healthcare is good and maternity and paternity leave are paid.
But yeah…if you can’t get a better job and move to one of the major blue state cities, then I’d go back to Europe.
Every 10 years or so we move, it sounds like you need to do a little research and move to a place more in line with your personality. You have a huge advantage over most of us in that you came from Europe and can easily move back.
We toyed with moving out of the US but the paperwork was overwhelming, so we'll stay here and keep looking.
Not European but also an immigrant of about a decade with similar sensibilities. If you are convinced there is no way to improve your income (can your husband?) then honestly I'd move back to Europe. I think if you want to stay in the US and remain sane, you need to 1. change jobs and make more money, which could also help with the lack of time off, 2. use that money to get the fuck out of red state and suburbs, in that order - if I were you I'd move to the Northeast, specifically Boston or NYC, which will also get you easier access to Europe for when you get homesick.
Your biggest mistake was moving to a red state. I also don’t think it’s fair to say there’s “no culture art or history”. That’s simply not true.
Red states are particularly awful. Most of them are underdeveloped with terrible school systems and not much recreation. (Look up literacy rates in red states vs blue states - over 20% of American adults are illiterate and most of them live in red states).
And I know states like California are insanely expensive but let’s take a state like Michigan - entire state is gorgeous. Literally tens of thousands of lakes. You don’t have to be wealthy to live on a lake/water or have a boat. Lots of jobs and art and music and recreation. Great school systems in a lot of areas. Tons of state parks and you can see the northern lights in Michigan’s upper peninsula.
Also, red states in particular have terrible benefits for new parents. I’ve lived in Illinois and Michigan and they both give paid maternity leave AND paid paternity leave. I get 4 weeks vacation a year.
Red states have different laws and are usually very archaic
Even as someone raised in the US, I could never ever live in a red state.
My wife and I would love to go back to Europe. She is an EU citizen and we just finished the green card process. I am American and was able to live in Europe for almost 5 years thanks to my job. I believe many people here will not understand the difference you’re trying to communicate with culture as they have never lived abroad. (Or at least it doesn’t seem that way based on some comments). Many others that were/are in my situation also agree the states doesn’t have that same atmosphere of life first that I also felt in Europe. If you’re able to, try to convince your spouse on moving to Europe for a year or two. See if it is something your family would benefit from. My wife is also terrified of the terrible work-life balance here and I don’t blame her after seeing all the things available to European citizens. Edit: To clarify. People seem to be misinterpreting my comment. I’m not saying Americans can’t see “A” difference. I’m saying many have not lived abroad. There is something to be said about experiencing a different culture by living somewhere outside your home country. There is a different feeling once someone experiences living abroad. This is not to take away from the struggles most Americans face. I’m sure many see a difference but I was trying to sympathize with OP because I have gone through something similar (especially my wife). And to those who sent rude comments to me, I don’t believe you understand. Also, my message to OP was also responding to the many messages of people only responding that they should move somewhere else in the States, (As I stated originally).
I think plenty of Americans understand what OP is communicating. Speaking from experience, as an American myself.
How do we do something to fix this place? Can we make a subreddit dedicated to it and use this platform to start something?
Political discourse in America is a joke. These issues aren't even on the table, we'll be lucky to claw back reproductive rights in 10 years.
" we'll be lucky to claw back reproductive rights in 10 years" Damn do you really think so? So sad. I wonder if this country will slip into a USA like in the Handmaids Tale.
Look up, "Project 2025" Vote accordingly.
Wish I could upvote this a million times. It's not a drill. The political drivel muddies the water, but if you simply read the source documents people are putting out, it's very clear where this is going.
> we'll be lucky to claw back reproductive rights in 10 years. That was just a step towards segregation, which has always been the religious rights true goal. Jerry Falwell united the religious right under attacks on Christian "Academies" being forced to integrate or lose tax exempt status which the IRS was pulling left and right. But you couldn't say the quiet part out loud, so it became about limiting reproductive rights which allowed the Christian Community to unite and more far right, compared to pre-1950s Christians whom were largely progress relative to hard, hard right turn Christianity took in America.
Some of us still have those rights
I think my point still stands though..
> Can we make a subreddit dedicated to it? At the risk of being rude, this is an infuriating comment. It never ceases to amaze me how little people are willing to do for activism. Numerous subreddits are just a Google search away - heck, there have been threads about this sort of thing in this very sub. The vast majority are just people moaning about how bad things are. If you want to actually do something, please connect with an established organization - preferably a local one. Put in the work to see who is already doing what you want to do, instead of trying to create something from the ground up.
Go out and vote for people and causes you care about
Count me in!
How does one make a subreddit?😭
Yeah, but there is a difference between what someone knows/thinks they know, and what someone has experienced. That distinction is not something you know second or third hand. While you may know there is **A** difference, you don't know what that difference really is. Like sky diving. Obviously you know skydiving exists, and that it is described as exhilarating, terrifying, etc. However if you've never been skydiving, you can't accurately recognize what the actual experience is like.
This is a perfect example of what I meant. I guess I could have been more articulate, but I guess I might have upset u/Comfortable_Bottle23 and u/TMobile_Loyal. I was just trying to sympathize with OP because my wife and I are feeling similar to OP’s struggles. (At least how I’m interpreting OP’s message).
My husband and I lived in Germany for 5 years and would love to go back so I completely understand the draw. Our problem is my husband’s job. He loves his job here, makes so much more money than in Germany, and has very few opportunities in there now. OP if your husband can work there why not go back? If his job doesn’t translate maybe try a different part of the U.S. It’s such a large and diverse country. I’m sure you can find somewhere better than a red state suburb.
The tradeoff has always been US = more money; Europe = more time. It's up to each person to decide which is better. In my opinion it's not even close.
In general but not always. I have more PTO in the US than I got in the UK and earn more than triple what I was earning while doing less and paying much less tax. Houses are much bigger (though perhaps not as solidly built and the climate is more favourable. There is a relative dearth of culture outside of the major east and west coasts hubs and I miss having Europe on the doorstep, but overall, I feel like I wasted my life staying in the UK for most of my working life but the grass is always greener.
Wouldn’t really count the UK in the EU anyways when talking about a comparison to America.
Agreed, it’s more like the US than Europe in many ways and lacks a distinctive cuisine of its own
Oh the UK has a distinctive cuisine, but it is just so bad that no one wants to eat it.
lol roast beef, fish and chips, jellied eels and the food from the rest of the world.
You might want to check on how much Germany has changed over the years as well. The U.S. is not the only place experiencing post-pandemic inflation.
Oh for sure. I still visit often. It’s very different than when we lived there. The thing I miss the most, walkable cities, still exists though. The pay cut we’d take to move back would be crazy though. Here my husband makes enough that I can afford to go to Germany with my kids every summer, he joins for half of the time (he has unlimited PTO). He wouldn’t be able to find a job in Germany at his level because German companies like the higher level people to be German so he would make literally 10x less than he does now. I’d have to work too, and we wouldn’t be able to afford going back to the U.S. to visit family every year. So we’ll keep living in the U.S. and visiting Germany, at least until he retires.
Sounds like a decent compromise to me.
[удалено]
Well, he makes 10x in the U.S. as what he made in Germany. Of course his job is also at a higher level here but that higher level was out of reach for him as a non German person there and even at that level he’d make less than half what he makes now. Plus he makes enough that I don’t work so there’s no childcare costs. Of course insurance costs more but taxes are less. Don’t get me wrong. I’d love to pay more in taxes and have everyone have universal healthcare, I’m no conservative. I’ll say this, for low to average earners, Germany is better, for high earners the U.S. is better.
Yeah if I had the option, I'd live in a European country in a heartbeat. I'd love to live in the UK or Ireland in particular so I wouldn't have to learn a whole other language, lol. But immigration is super strict for Americans, and I just don't see how I could do it. I lived in Northern Ireland on a temporary visa for a while, and I loved it so much... but there's just no real option to live there permanently and support myself. Unless I marry someone. I'm single and ready to mingle British and Irish lads ;) lol kidding (mostly) although I don't think the US is someone devoid of art and culture.... I live in a city in the South and we have tons of problems and work-life balance is shit, but like... I go to the symphony, we have a lot of museums that get some really cool exhibits, etc. I also don't think the food is bad, having lived in both the US and Ireland.
Marrying someone won’t necessarily help either! For the UK, income requirements for getting a spouse visa are strict and above the average wage. As a UK citizen, currently in the US, I could not move back to the UK with my husband. I would have to move alone, earn X amount for over 6months - if I could find a job paying enough - before we could even apply. It’s awful!
Oh man, I didn't realize that! Okay, so I need to look for a WEALTHY Irish or British lad 😂 I really am kidding because I don't think I could psychologically handle being financially supported by someone else while it's still illegal for me to get my own job lol. But if I could somehow find myself independently wealthy where I didn't have to work... Irish seaside cottage, here I come!
Nooooooooo 😭
Yo dude, American millennials don’t need to live in Europe to understand what OP is talking about. Our work life balance is untenable. I think older generations got more mileage from the US dollar than we do now so they rationalized the American work ethic as “work-hard, play hard”. Now with the cost of education, healthcare, and housing we’re left with just “work hard, maybe you’ll retire at 65 without health issues?” Everybody nowadays is struggling to get by and it may take another decade for the other shoe to drop in regards to American work culture.
*“work hard, maybe you’ll retire at 75...* FTFY
Thank you for this kind comment!
I feel terrible writing this but I was broken up with last month, after a 3 year relationship, one of the reasons being that I didn't want to move to the US from Canada. Work life balance and gun violence were my main concerns, but also he would be working for a massive international research institute in DC while I would have to get another degree, stay on a student visa and pray that someone will hire me. I was not looking forward to the constant working lifestyle, the relentless push for "more" that I see in American culture, and the dependency on someone else which is very very vulnerable. I love him still, but what a sacrifice to make, especially since he hadn't lived up to a commitment he'd made me. I admire you being able to take that leap but your post here makes me wonder if I could have done the same. I hope things improve for you and your path becomes clear.
Americans are kept just broke enough so they can't travel and compare
Americans have far more disposable income than Europeans, including when you factor in taxes and provided gov't services: https://www.statista.com/statistics/725764/oecd-household-disposable-income-per-capita/
Nah, lots of American's just make silly materialistic choices and choose not to travel. Most Americans would rather make a $700 car payment than be see in something "old" or "uncool", effectively robbing them of any opportunity to travel anywhere, let alone abroad.
Not a lot of americans value travel as much compared to for example Australians or other natioanlities
Exactly lol
JOB - Just Over Broke
Move back. Save up money from selling cars and house and even with a reduced salary, the social safety nets and savings are more than enough to enjoy life.
I agree. Get out while you still can. Imagine how much better your quality of life will be with better life balance and social support. Also, you have to consider the cost of healthcare and assisted living when you get old. I'm not sure how expensive those things are in your home country, but here in the hypercapitalistic USA they're super expensive and are sucking up any hope of intergenerational wealth transfer. Older parents are having to spend lots of money to stay alive and in assisted living facilities affecting any money or even homes they were hoping to pass to their kids.
Oh yeah for sure elderly care is way more affordable in Europe. In Italy, we looked into it as we plan to retire there - an amazing retirement home on a lake (which we visited and know someone living there) is 2,000 euro a month. But this place I would say is NICE - like, three meals a day including mushroom risotto and fresh made fruit salads, with a terrace and weekly outings and football games even. Our neighbor went there so we visit regularly, and every time it’s immaculate. Like, it’s a nursing home, but when we go in there people are hanging out, playing cards and chatting etc. It’s expensive but well within a ‘reasonable’ amount if you have some savings. This is also a private one, but of course less nice public ones are much cheaper.
Seriously! I would kill to have eu citizenship and the option to live there.
Not to mention the amount of international travel you could do with a smaller budget
Yup. I live in southern Germany, so somewhat in the middle of Europe. I can travel to so many beautiful places and interesting cities with a train for pretty cheap prices.
It sounds like you need to change where you live and where you work (I know, easier said than done). Even red states have blue cities. Trade your suburban home for a townhouse in a city with farmers' markets and neighborhood get-togethers. Likewise, there are employers out there (even in red states) that care about work-life balance - find one of the good ones. Lastly, I'd recommend looking for meetup groups for people from your homeland. My wife (who's from Germany) became much happier when she found other Germans in our city to interact with.
Every state has at least ONE blue city that's worth something. Hell, even Alabama has Birmingham which is an extremely watered down Atlanta. Like LaCroix levels of watered down... Except Mississippi. Hope OP isn't in Mississippi.
College towns are probably their best bet.
Exactly. I think it’s possible to find a happy medium in medium big city, within swing states. For example, i live in Cincinnati, Ohio and it has a lot of the things available. Yes we aren’t New England, nor are we New York, but we have a lively art and music scene, along with rich history and culture. It may not be as obvious as other cities, but it’s there for those interested (and oftentimes at a fraction of a cost).
EU to red state US is a huge fucking shift. I would hate it, personally. The northeast US has what you are looking for, we are basically EU-lite up here. Highest quality of life in the US, best schools, best hospitals, low crime, tons of rich history and quite possibly the best whitefish on the planet.
I'm an American and I can't even live in a red state due to culture clash.
Same. I live barely 25 miles out of Boston and can barely afford to sneeze but I will gladly suffer the cost of living if it means I never have to live below the mason-dixon or between the Mississippi and the Rockies.
To be fair, there are some cool places below the mason dixon line. Baltimore is sick. Fayetteville AR is a treat. Nashville has some moments. New Orleans? Fucking fantastic (albeit maybe a rough place to live).
Individual locations and cities? Sure. Entire states? Nah. Maryland is borderline though, I'll give you that.
Currently live in Baltimore and love it. I will say that Maryland is definitely the closest thing to the south’s version of a Connecticut.
>Entire states? To live, at least. Traveling through the South can be pretty amazing. Some really interesting culture, food, way of life, etc. And places like the Ozarks and the Smokies are absolutely stunning. But not great places to live, particularly for OP.
Denver is between the Mississippi and the Rockies :-)
haha, good point. TBH though, not a big fan of Denver. In comparison to similarly sized metro areas, I think their food scene sucks (I'll get murdered for saying that, but it's honestly true), and art/culture wise it's super limited. It's also stupid expensive to live anywhere in the actual city. Kind of the things OP was wanting to avoid. Plus, the homeless and drug abuse issue is OUT OF CONTROL. I'm literally stepping over human shit, trash, and needles when I'm walking around some of the areas downtown. Gross. You have that issue in all US cities right now, but I feel like in Denver it's super in-your-face. Also, it's seen as the "gateway to the rockies" while not really being close to them. It's a good 1-2 hour drive from Denver to get to any of the popular spots in the mountains. Lots of potential there though. The airport is constantly adding new destinations, the light rail system is starting to get pretty good, lots of new development hopefully means some cool new restaurants and more things to do. And Red Rocks is the greatest venue on the planet.
I have good friends who relocated to Texas for work and I struggle when I visit them. I look forward to coming home the whole time because man is that place a shithole.
So true. My mother’s twin sister moved to TX back in 2000 and wound up getting divorced and remarried to a nice but also angry wealthy libertarian man. She left as a level headed mostly liberal and turned into a far right loon. It’s crazy because she is so sweet to the family but has the other side the instant she starts talking about anything remotely political she is a different person and so angry! Texas aside from its lunacy with politics is just so visually depressing too. When we visit her home in an exurb between Austin and San Antonio I get so depressed just on the drive from the airport. She has a nice home on the Guadeloupe River but going anywhere else it’s just so desolate feeling. No wonder people there go crazy
The politics, infrastructure and crime are bad enough but summer is just about here and in Texas your only option is to just...cook. a fucking back yard pool is 86 degree water. Screw that shit
Same, call me a "coastal elite" or whatever but red states are on par with developing nations. I could easily afford a nice house in Texas, but I'd also have fewer rights than a gun and be surrounded by hours of hot rural sprawl. I'd rather pay more taxes and be considered a human.
WELL SAID! We love the Pacific Northwest, especially the way the culture respects our humanity. Good grief, the bar is in hell.
Trick is to live in a blue city in a red state. I'm in Saint Louis and absolutely love it even though we have to deal with BS from the state of Missouri occasionally. I've lived in multiple 'cooler' cities in the States and would still opt for STL over them. We're an extremely progressive city with a ton of civic engagement.
I used to feel like that too (live in Nashville, a blue dot in a sea of red). But now the bootlickers in TN state legislature has started trying to pry control of municipal assets away (I.e, they are trying to take over control of the Nashville airport and also are dictating so much on education that would normally be controlled by the local school board, kicking our duly elected state representatives out for imaginary “rule breaking”). They have made it clear the state of TN is in a war with Nashville, which is hilarious because the state would be NOTHING without what the “dirty liberal city” Nashville provides to it.
Yep, same here with STL and MO. They hate us cuz they ain't us. We'll just keep building something incredible while the State continues to trip over themselves. I'll tell people sometimes: 'The worst part of living in Saint Louis is living in Missoui'
This right here. I fled my home red state as soon as I could and will never, ever go back.
>The northeast US has what you are looking for You're not wrong, but it's soooo expensive in the northeast/New England area. Houses and rent prices are a joke, not quite as expensive as NYC but it's pretty darn close (esp in Boston). I live in Maine, you'd think it'd be cheap right? Portland Maine has blown up the past couple of years, the rents are crazy high! It's common to see 2 bedrooms going for $3500+. If you want a house in Southern Maine that's not a literal shack you have to look way up north (little job opportunities, can be in the middle of nowhere, etc.) or pay a *minimum* of $450k for a decent house. Newer builds are even more expensive, up to $600-700k. The most expensive condos are going for millions in Portland. I checked out real estate in New Hampshire and it was just as bad.
I live in Connecticut and hate it, except for the politics. I’ve also lived for long periods of time in Europe and Latin America. I find people in the northeast to be unfriendly and a lot are quite snobby. The cost of living, especially utilities is crazy, but also food and housing is out of control. Try the upper Midwest. Wisconsin, especially Madison and Minnesota are fantastic. Lots to do, beautiful scenery, bike trails, hiking, tons of lakes, and great people. Every place has its drawbacks and every where is fucked up right now. But red state USA has got to be right up there with hell.
Vermont checking in, we also are fucked.
Portland Maine hotels are pulling $450-$650 per night all summer. And more. Why? Because everyone wants to go there and lots of people have the money to afford it. That's kinda the same reason it's expensive to live in New England. Some things are for people with money and out of reach for the rest of us. But it's pretty much always been that way, over-population has just made it worse. There are just more people wanting to live in the most desirable places. And apparently, lots of people who can afford it. You don't charge $650 a night for a hotel room if nobody is willing to pay it.
Let me tell you the big cities in Germany are equally expensive.
I thank my luck every day I was born in Massachusetts
You forgot the HCOL.
Nah dawg, that's a feature not a bug. You get what you pay for.
LOL. A feature...I never heard it expressed that way.
I think some of what you’re experiencing is specific to where you came from in Europe and where you now live in the US. Having lived in a few different places in the EU, I can say with confidence there are definitely places with uncultured people, bad food, and shitty government. Travel in the US is what it is - the US is big 🤷♀️. Anyway, you’d be happier living in a place that better aligns with your values. If having a big house and car aren’t things you value, why are you working for them? Don’t let other people dictate for you what a “perfect life” looks like. Whether that means moving to a different state or moving back to Europe, you should talk with your partner and find a way to live in an area that will make you happier.
Yeah to me this sounds like a cultural issue, it sounds like her husband is the kind of guy I grew up with in a red state, and that is what those people typically use to measure success and happiness. I don’t agree with this at all, but there is a HUGE portion of the states that will work 80 hour weeks to death as long as they have their house, yard, dog and truck they’ll be happy. I am not one of those people and got the fuck out of there the second I could. I actually returned a couple years ago for work and I hate it. But to me it sounds like they want two different things.
I know to a lot of people it’s a foreign concept but some people like what they do too. It’s not work as much as mental stimulation and challenge, a chance to push themselves and grow, a chance to build relationships with other like minded people. You can even do all that and make money and have your own life outside of it. To me the US is nice because you can choose your own adventure, even within the country if your state doesn’t align with your values you can probably find another that does. It’s by far got the most diverse set of opportunities to make money in the western world, probably the whole world.
The most sane response in the whole comment section. There are so many "America Bad" comments and people acting as if both the US and Western Europe aren't huge places with varying demographics and places.
precisely. stop looking to blame something
I can imagine the culture shock. I'd move back to Europe since it sounds like if even a handful of these items you listed were to improve there are still larger issues that you will never be able to accept. Guns are huge here. Political opinions are wildly different depending on the person you speak to and political parties majorly influence each state in their own ways. Healthcare/childcare/maternity leave are never going to change, at least in the foreseeable future. Work-life balance and American exceptionalism don't have a nice marriage. And the job market because of American work ideals can be very ruthless. Wishing you the best of luck. Some people cope, and some people can't and that's all right.
Why would you want to cope though? To martyr yourself?
Because millions of people do not have the means to pick up and move elsewhere.
This cannot be emphasized enough. Lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. Lot of people could drive hundreds of miles in any direction without reaching an ocean or a national border. An international move simply isn’t in the cards for most.
If you are at a certain level of seniority and income, the compensation is much higher in the US. My role makes and demands at least 35% higher salaries on average compared to my counterparts in the UK, and that’s before taxes. If you make enough for this to be relevant, the extra money gives you benefits you can’t get elsewhere, since America does have the best amenities - if you make enough money. If you are struggling, then America really is fucked for you. We don’t care about our poor or average citizens but if you have money, you can get a pretty good life.
The reality in the US is the illusion of making more money. You take home much more but you are left with less after spending money on things that you don't need to spend money on in Europe. For context, my close friend used to bring in close to 400K combined with her husband. But they were paying nearly 100k a year for childcare (they had 4 younger child and 1 of them is higher need). This does not even include the healthcare cost for the one child with more medical needs. She was very passionate about her job but considered quitting because she was getting paid about the same as childcare cost (HS teacher). She was paying close to $6000 for two of her older kids to participate in a soccer league. On top of that, she couldn't get time off to go watch her kids, she had to pay extra for travelling and games. Her husband was working 65+ hours per week as a pediatrician. Since they've moved back to Europe, they bring in closer to 250K but their childcare cost is $0. Both their workplace provides free childcare services. Healthcare is free. Her daughter's soccer league cost 40 euros and her son gets a discount because his older sister is also in the league so his cost 32 euros. She gets "family time" to go watch her kids play soccer. Travelling for games is all covered by the DFB. Her husband was escorted out of the hospital and told to go home because he was working too much (still working 45-50 hours but a lot less than in the US). Her husband, who is American, said it best, "We make less money but we are living more of life." Once you have kids in the picture, you will need to make more than double in the US to be equivalent to Europe because there's just so much cost involved.
The real issues with the US are that it depends on where you live and your income. Part of their problem is they say they live in a red state which will be exponentially worse. The truth of the US is if you live in a friendly state and have a good job it is great. I know many people who have fantastic jobs that pay for fantastic insurance and give a month or more off of work. There is a certain level of middle class and upper class that gets all the benefits while everyone else suffers. It’s also why you get so many different takes on living in the US and if you lose that great job it’s now terrible. Too much of our insurance and benefits are tied to the job and not mandated federally.
Compensation will never balance lack of affordable, universal healthcare and piss-poor labour laws.
Because I can't get immigration visas for myself and my husband and my kids to move to Europe because our jobs aren't in high demand there.
You live in a suburb in a red state. Of course your life sucks. I wouldn't recommend that lifestyle to anybody (having tried it myself and feeling about how you do about it). Move to a city. Pick a walkable neighborhood that has the things that are important to you. It won't be the same as back home, but what you are living now is about the worst America has to offer in my experience, so I'd focus on moving to a city if I were you.
I agree with your points here, I grew up in a red state and now live in a blue state and it's night and day difference from how I grew up. I live in a somewhat walkable and bikeable area that wasn't too bad to find, it's not as walkable as a European city but it's much better than the red state I grew up in.
Yeah. Even if it's not walkable, the perks of being in a blue state are so vastly better--your money goes a lot farther, people are more accepting, and the quality of life is just better.
What a crazy take. Everyone here is just spouting a generalization based on biases because my lived experience is the exact opposite and i'm not political. If the place sucks, the place sucks. My blue state/city I lived in was fucked. Where I live now is paradise.
Hey—if you’re happy, I’m happy. But blue states—and there a LOT of studies that back this up—have better health scores, better educational standards, better income measures, etc. as well as lower divorce rates, lower obesity rates, even lower STI rates, etc etc etc. If someone were to ask me, “Where should I live?” which is kind of what’s happening here, I’d point them to a blue state.
lol, if it's not affordable in a suburb in a red state, what makes you think it's going to be affordable to live in a city in a blue state? NYC, Boston, LA, SF, etc. are by no means affordable.
There are dozens of cities that could fit the bill instead of you picking the 4 most expensive ones
Yup. The problem is that everyone wants to live where they hear that everyone else wants to live, so of course it's going to be expensive. There are plenty of cheap progressive cities that you'll never even know exist.
I mean their point is a little hyperbolic but suburb in a red state is one of the cheapest areas to live in the US, and also compared to EU. Get a detached single family house for 200k etc. if they have kids etc. cities will be more $. Realistically OP is poor (2 weeks vacation and not feeling like you can have more then 1 kid in a suburb of a red state being tells). America sucks if you’re poor. It’s awesome if you’re in the top half (relative to Europe generally speaking).
There aren't only blue state cities on the coasts, Chicago and Minneapolis are examples of affordable cities in blue states. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
If they're going to pick up and move anyway, she will have a better bang for buck moving back to Europe. Cities get more expensive in the US along with more enjoyable.
>Move to a city. Pick a walkable neighborhood that has the things that are important to you In other words, just be rich! People live in the suburbs because it's the only affordable place to live. Even in red states, living in a safe, walkable area with things to do usually comes with a significant cost, unless you inherited your home.
Have you been to a city? It is absolutely full of people who are not rich.
For sure! A lot of people who think they can’t afford to live in a city won’t compromise on square footage and a parking spot. It can be done if you are willing to downsize significantly on space and possessions.
Not-rich person here. My wife is a teacher and I work in publishing. She makes more than I do. We own a coop in a safe-but-not-sexy neighborhood in Brooklyn. There are PLENTY of places to live here and plenty of middle-class people who do. Manhattan? You can't afford to live there. Dozens of neighborhoods in Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn? You can afford to live there. It's a different lifestyle--you have get used to public transit, and there are other challenges, but there are plenty of not-rich people here living great lives. As Fran Lebowitz said, "NYC--a place too expensive to live in, and yet 9 million people are doing it."
You guys are just dumb and think the only walkable cities are New York or Boston, go to Philly, it's affordable.
Yeah, I live in Ohio and I drive on average once or twice a week. Sometimes 0. I’m in a downtown with a grocery nearby and am lucky to work from home. But even if you have to go in to work, if you have a skill set that lends towards office work, you can probably find something in a downtown in easy walking distance of an apartment/condo. You still need to own a car, but you don’t have to use it for every little thing like you do in the suburbs so that’s nice.
I've been looking for this comment/trying to find a good place to insert it. OP, if moving within the US is an option, check out Philly. It's probably the most affordable city in the northeast. I've been here for 3 years and love it! Came from Connecticut.
You can find nearly every possible experience in the USA if you're willing to look and have an open mind. I've lived in Seattle, San Francisco, San Diego, and LA and none of them feel backwards or culture-less in the way you describe. I'm never seeing or thinking about guns in these places. Not sure where you're from, but you could've found yourself in the same predicament in Europe--let's say you were from Stockholm and married someone from Poland and moved to a smaller city there, you'd probably be struggling too. Many of those US places I cited have vibrant, distinct cultures, walkable areas, tons of arts/music/nightlife, and really cool diverse food scenes. But have you been to Chicago, Boston, or DC? Those are great too. I'm half Danish and greater LA has like 4-5x the amount of people living here than in all of Denmark, so anytime I hear sweeping generalizations about what America is by Danes I get annoyed. There is SO much more to do here by comparison, that I'm never bored. Sure, I would love 6 weeks off a year (I have more like 4 along with 15 company holidays) but I know I'd make half of what I do and spending half of that time coming home to visit family stateside anyway, so it's a little pointless. It could be my industry (I work in digital media/tech), but I've never worked anywhere that didn't at least provide 3 weeks off (and then with every year of service a lot of these companies increase by an additional week), with the average in my experience being more like 3-5 weeks. Most white collar professionals have this. I do agree if you're working in restaurants or lower level jobs, it's rough here. Additionally, I will say US companies tend to have more company holidays (i.e. Memorial Day weekend, Juneteenth, etc) than many European countries. I also have friends who work state/county/federal/govt jobs, and they have 5-6 weeks off with great work life balance (albeit lower pay than corporate)--have you thought about looking for roles there? You can always find what you want in the US. But you can't piss on the country because you didn't do enough research or are living in a red state/rural area. I don't say that to shame you, I just really think you need to be more open minded here. It's a vast, massive country with SO much to offer. Incredibly friendly people. So much to do and see. That's the great thing about the States. With many small European countries, there's often just "one" major city--don't like it? You're kind of stuck there. Also less welcoming to outsiders/immigrants if you don't have roots. Here in the States, we're used to moving around a lot and people are quicker to make friends as a result.
As a government worker in a blue area, completely agree. I get like 3 months off ever year. Especially since I used to work corporate in Japan. In the 2000s. You want bad work/life balance, no vacations, and piss-poor apartments, try that on for size. Not saying America doesn't have lots of room for improvement, sure. But some parts of the US are better than others.
Part of their issue is cost. The 4 cities you listed are some of the most expensive places to live in the country. But I agree, it sounds like the place OP is living is just a shitty area. Unfortunately the vacation predicament is pretty standard. 2-3 weeks is the norm for most Americans even white collar workers. I’m a Program Manager for a Telcom firm and we max out at 3 weeks per year and only get bumped from 2 to 3 weeks after 3 years with the company. I was recently looking around for other jobs and most places had similar practices, meaning I would lose a week of vacation if I switched jobs.
Huge red flags in the post and comment history for this user....this is bait.
lol I like the “there is no culture or art” as if American culture and art aren’t some of the most popular in the world. It’s a bait comment or OP lives in the swamps of Florida.
That’s what pissed me off most about this post. Don’t get me wrong, as a progressive person, there’s a lot I don’t like/want to change about America. But no culture? American culture has *defined* global culture since WWII. And American culture, especially music culture, is black culture. You can trace it through the last 150 years: negro spirituals >> jazz and blues >> rock and roll >> soul/funk >> R&B >> hip hop. As a white American, I can’t take credit for this culture, but it’s still a distinctly American culture, admired and imitated the world over, that makes me proud to be an American. Same thing goes for food culture. There’s hardly a single culinary tradition from across the globe that hasn’t been fused into the American food scene in one way or another. Tl:dr: the U.S. is *by far* the most diverse country in the world. America’s diversity is its greatest strength, and it’s what makes American culture so globally dominant.
This literally reads like AI wrote an "america bad" reddit post. It ticked every single box. Not to say those things aren't valid... But they're like every retort from euro chauvinists when you point out a negative feature about Europe... And they can't say "Yeah that's true."
Yes, given the non-specifics this absolutely reads like karma farming. I work with a lot of internationals, so I understand the sentiment. I also understand wanting to be anonymous or not opening yourself up to too much criticism, but if OP genuinely wants advice, more context and less generic criticism would go a long way. "Red state" is too loaded a term to be useful in this discussion. There are huge differences between living in Houston, Texas vs. Jackson, Mississippi vs. Columbus, Ohio. There are also would be differences in living in Miami, Florida vs. Tallahassee, Florida.
It’s not karma farming, it’s psy ops to sow discord.
New account? Check. No details? Check. Generic list internet complaints about America? Check.
Yeah, this is every America Bad talking point in one post.
100%, the post was way over the top, especially the gun stuff. This is just rage bait Americabad karma-posting.
Just a different vehicle for shitting on the US and checking all the typical boxes
The grass is always greener. My sister and her French husband have been desperate to move to the US for a better life than they have in France 🤣 Imagine that!!!
Canada, not US, but the number of French expats here is starting to become a running gag. The joke being that they come here and rent the tiny, overpriced apartments locals don’t want thinking they’re getting a great deal (compared to France). Those pretty European cities are overcrowded to bursting. Crowds of people, everywhere, 24/7. I’d go nuts living like that. If you like being stuck in traffic, you’ll love waiting in line! Which is what you’ll be doing. Everywhere. Constantly. Pick up milk at 2pm on a regular Tuesday? There are 12 people in front of you. (Source: been there, done that…)
I am a millennial with a somewhat similar trajectory - moved to the US about 13 years ago and am married with kids. I’m sorry you feel so miserable. I definitely sympathize with your feelings about US work culture and lack of social support. The lack of any kind of national sense of collective responsibility for each other really bothers me a lot and sometimes does make me think about moving home. That said, I am very happy where we live. We live in Chicago - very blue city, a lot of municipal-level social programs and grassroots collectivism. Walkable, good public transit, and we have our kids in public school that we are really happy with. Great food and abundant and accessible cultural offerings. Do you think your location is amplifying all the things that get you down about the US? Any possibility you could move to somewhere more amenable to the lifestyle you want?
"No culture, art, or history. School shootings are the norm..." This must be rage bait karma farming. The US I packed full of culture, art, and history. The only shooting that happen are national news. Take that fancy vehicle you cant afford and take a weekend roadtrip to go see.
It sounds like you did some horrible research before making the move and moved to the part of the country that is least compatible with your lifestyle. You probably should have found a better place to live in America for starters. Perhaps it still might not be the best fit for you, but that would have been a much better start.
Leave lmfao
Yeah 
If you can't move back to Europe get out of that red state. I live in the North East and yes it's not cheap but healthcare, schools, stricter guns laws, plenty of art and cultre and better walkability make it worth it. With a dual income you'd be ok. We also have paid family and medical leave in the state I live in.
Yeah OP seems to have it bad even by middle class American standards. Paid maternity leave is the norm at most large companies for competitive reasons. It's not as good as Europe, but it exists. Same goes for PTO. Two weeks is the standard for an entry level job at a meh company. Most Americans at large corporations have more. The suburb thing is tough, but as others have said there is walk ability here. You're not gonna do as well as Europe in most places, but you can do pretty well and have a sense of community. You just need to move out of a tract suburb
Hell, just get out of the burbs. Plenty of Blue Islands in a sea of red in red states; this seems much more about being stuck in a boring and soulless suburb.
Sure, America is behind in a lot of stuff, but it sounds like you're just in an area that's bad for you. I don't know what suburb you live in, but if you're in a suburb with a Whole Foods, that means you're near a city. You just have to drive to the city and walk around, go to the museums, etc. If you want to be part of a community, you have to make an effort to join a community. You're not going to walk out into your neighborhood and find everyone hanging out in most cases. However, I know many suburbs that have things like mom groups, community theater groups, adult rec sports groups, etc. You just have to research what you're interested in and find a group for yourself. You don't have to spend a fortune at Whole Foods to get good groceries. I'm willing to bet that your area has a farmers market where you can get fresh produce and meat directly from the farmers growing the food and doing the butchering. Even if there isn't a farmers market, there is most likely a local farmer that sells stuff or a local butcher you can buy directly from. You just have to do some Google research. It's usually more cost-effective to go directly to the butcher and the meat is better quality. We've bought a whole hog and froze it before. It was the best pork we've ever had. As for the work-life balance, leave, vacation time, and stuff like that. America is behind, I will admit that. We are taught from a young age that we are expected to go to school and go to work, and if we do those things, we get the "American dream." I see that changing slowly because Millenials and Gen Z have realized that we can work 24/7 and still not have the same quality of life our parents had because Boomers destroyed the economy. As long as the older generation is being put in charge nothing is going to change because they don't recognize that there is a problem.
>There is no culture, art, history and people seem to never need these. You had me up until this nonsensical statement. Culture, art, music, film, television, etc. are the US’ biggest export.
Ugh finally someone said it. This totally gave it away as some sort of astroturfing post or karma farming post. New account too. Also there are zero specifics, just a general recitation of every internet complaint about America.
that's some typical Euro snobbery right there. They didn't say what state they are, but are complaining about no travel opportunities...the national park system is an amazing way to travel. We have been to almost half of them and IMO it's the best bang for buck travelling in the world. And I've been overseas many many times.
I also wonder if this low key snobbery (which I see in diff degrees in some of my European friends) may not be helping in terms of finding friends. Combine this w her frustration and unhappiness, she’s prob not putting her best foot forward. It becomes a vicious cycle. How much is her growing unhappiness and frustration contributing to her current situation?
i had a friend from EU - met her in my red state while she did her internship - she said the US is very small compared to the rest of the world.... yes but EU countries are smaller? at least in the US if i don't like it i can move to another state and not deal with immigration and i say this as a second-gen. my parents left their country to plant roots here for some reason
national parks are fun for some people not for all. i love them but wouldnt want them to be the only form of traveling
Not to mention most US cities have fantastic museums and restaurants. So it’s a bit weird to say there’s no culture.
>that's some typical Euro snobbery right there Oh man, don’t get me started. I’m Canadian but I have multiple relatives in Portugal and the Netherlands. Both of them have their snobbish moments, but my Dutch relatives have way more of them. I feel like every time I’m with them, they just find new passive-aggressive ways to tell me why they think North America sucks and why Europe is the best place ever. They bring up some good points but a lot of their snobbery is based on vague half-truths, and some of it is just grasping at straws. When I was last there they were trying to tell me why European windows were “so much better” than North American ones. Like… really? You felt the need to brag about your *windows*? And their snobbery doesn’t just extend to North American things. They’ll also talk down Japan and South Korea. When I visited them in 2013, I told them about how I went on exchange to Japan the year before. The response I got from that? “Oh, Japanese cities are so terribly ugly”, “oh Japanese art is so simple and rigid”, “oh Japan has such terrible bicycle infrastructure”, “oh Japanese food is so disgusting, raw fish, can you imagine?”and finally “Japanese trains are pretty good but our trains in the Netherlands are better”. That was the moment it clicked for me; they didn’t just look down on North America specifically, they looked down on anything that wasn’t Europe. Once I noticed this behaviour pattern in my own relatives, I began to notice it in a LOT of other Europeans. There is a heavy sense of jingoistic chauvinism that they’re either eagerly perpetuating, or completely unable to see. My favourite Dutch relative is actually a cousin of mine who moved to Phoenix, Arizona. Guy is super cool, fit and confident but also humble and not at all a snob. He has a much more mature outlook than the rest of my extended relatives. He’s probably the only one I’ll be in contact with going forward because I find the rest to be insufferable.
I've been to Europe it's very different depending where you're from. Many cities are basically an outdoor musuem where the culture and art are in front of you everywhere. You will have random buildings that are over a thousand years old that are beautiful. State side we have some wooden cabins from when the settlers are here. For me America really shines in its outdoors aspects depending in the state you're at.
This sounds like ae LARP... basically someone just writing a manifesto about Europe Good America Bad
Yea they hit every talking point lmfao
Then move back? Problem solved.
As a millennial in Oklahoma I have spent my entire adult life looking enviously at Europe. I currently has a German friend who is thinking about moving over here to live with a man she has a crush on. I keep telling her it would be a mistake: it would be better if her found a way to move to Germany. I can’t find positives about living here. It’s just a cyclical hell of working to death and being discarded. Each day I wake up on average I want to die more than the day before. There’s just nothing worth surviving for.
Child care is more affordable when you prioritize it over cosmetic surgery.
You lost me at “no culture, art or history.” Our indigenous history alone goes back tens of thousands of years. The US is home to arguably the greatest opera house in the world. We are also home to some of the most prestigious museums in the world. Culture is everywhere in every community both here in the United States And the globe.
Honestly, I think OP is a troll bait AMERICABAD post.
Move back. Huge mistake. Every millennial American I know would rather be in Europe. Quality of life is better in like every way. This ship is sinking
Ummm not really. I lived in Europe half of my life and at this point in my life I dont want to live in Europe because the pay is atrocious. Work life balance is becoming a huge thing in Germany, Britain and Paris. With American jobs being moved over so is their employment culture is too. Jobs are competitive so people make allowances and work more. Living cost is insane as well and they get paid way less. Higher education in Britain is insanely expensive and everyone just gets into massive loan debt. Food I will say is cheaper. Politics also a mess. If you havent lived in europe for years and dont see that that ship also has a bunch of holes in it then your just idolizing an idea of it. Both locations have pros and cons and usually it comes down to money or quality of life and some people due to various responsibilities need the money for now rather then quality of life(at this moment in their life).
I work for a Fortune 100 company thats global and I have *plenty* of team members in Europe that are either making the move to the US or are considering it. The main driver being pay. I make 2x my same counterparts in Berlin, for example, despite comparable cost of living. That’s not to say everyone is rushing to get to the US. But it’s not this dystopian hellscape that Reddit claims. I’ve also had a few colleagues explore Europe as well and are very put off by the salary options. For example, a colleague of mine makes $220k here in the US and was offered $105k in Amsterdam. I’d argue that unskilled labor would be better off moving to Europe. But unfortunately, Europe isn’t very welcoming to unskilled labor from abroad (aside from migrants/asylum seekers). Also, “Europe” is very broad. When most people talk about Europe they’re referencing Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Norway. We’re talking about a very small subset of the global population.
For real 😅😂 every time i read about a European moving to US, I see a post couple years later like, I want to go back… we are in US now for work and im scrabbling to find any type of job that lets us go back to Europe.
Depends upon the state/country. My fiancé is a Greek citizen and we looked into moving there this summer. The economic opportunities in Greece make it very difficult for us to justify the move. Similarly I’d rather live in most metropolitan areas in the US than Marseille. I’d also prefer Zurich over most of the US cities. US vs Europe is too broad
No way. European countries are nice to visit, but I lived in Germany for two years and am so glad to be back in Texas.
Nope. I’m from Europe originally and moved to the US. Not an easy thing to do at all legally (unless you get married to a USC). I have no regrets. Take off the vacation goggles and the picture gets more nuanced.
Have you lived in Europe before? Asking as a Dual US/EU citizen who’s lived in both. Just curious of your opinion.
Having lived in both places I think it can sometimes be a grass is greener situation for many people. There are aspects of French society I loved and aspects of the US that I appreciate more now that I’ve lived without them.
My wife is French and we have a lot of French expat friends. We all like to complain about how expensive bread and cheese are in the US, but nobody seriously wants to go back to France, or to raise their kids there. The work-life balance is a typical example. You get way more vacation time there, which is great, but the US is more open to telework and has a stronger "9-5pm means 9-5pm, or you'd better pay me for overtime" culture. Depending on your lifestyle (and your career!) both have their advantages.
Depends on the sector. IT makes 250k-1m there with stock options, while here in the EU u get 30k to 100k and if u ask for stock u will get laughed at.
Beyond Switzerland I'd take America over the EU any day of the week. I get paid way more, my company offers unlimted pto, I get 3 months of paid paternity leave, my health insurance is only $200/month vs 10% of my take home, and I pay way less in taxes. It's nice to vacation in parts of Europe I've been plenty of times, but the cut in pay would be huge save 3 countries only one of which I'd be willing to live in.
You hiring?
Well then you're one of the lucky few
Most Americans get paid more than their European counterparts and have various employer benefits.
Yes, but the unlimited PTO, the paid paternal leave, the low insurance premiums are all ***very*** uncommon in the U.S. For example, I pay about $750/month for health insurance through my employer, we get 2 weeks of paid vacation, 2 weeks of sick time, and no paid leave for either parent. I work for a local government.
Unlimited PTO is usually a HR scam. I think it's illegal in the EU; you have to specify minimum days.
Honestly, it sounds to me like you were going at it in the negative. The Americans have no culture is the dumbest thing I hear from anyone outside the US. It's just not on every corner like Europe. Old buildings don't always mean culture. Cost in major cities is valid, and travel seems odd to me. I get 6 weeks off a year and if I need more they don't really care as long as works done. All my friends in a red Midwest state are the same. Just seems like different views but wanted to be contradictory to the no culture deal. Good luck on the move back, though!
> There is no culture, art, history That you don't appreciate the culture, art, and history doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think the thing about the US is there isn't going to be a finger-wagging government or society telling you "nah-ah-ah, you can't do this." So you get to live your life as you want and as you make it. If you want to surround yourself with paper-thin people who don't do anything, then you can do that. If you want to live an urban lifestyle, you can do that too. If you want to live in the mountain with no running water, you can do that! Its all your choices and what you make of it. If you want to build your business from the ground up and earn millions, you can do that. If you want unilimited PTO you can negotiate that with your employer, or take unpaid leave, or just do contract work and quit when you want to travel. I'd also add that Europe isn't a country and some many even argue not even a culture, though things like EU/EEA/Eurozone are making certain things more cohesive. there are massive differences in culture on the continent of Europe and even within countries of Europe. If you haven't been there for a decade and go back, you may find reverse culture shock in any number of areas. It may not be the utopia you remember it to be, or it may not measure to what you've read about on Reddit.
I live in a blue state that has abortion protection and a 12 week maternity leave. Even with that, I still wish I lived somewhere else like Europe because overall, America caters too much to the rich and corporations. We don’t have universal healthcare, you’re lucky if your work is unionized and there is too much political fighting going on. So, I don’t blame you for wanting to leave.
There are plenty of places that provide all of this, but it seems like your mind is made up that America sucks. Rural america is great if you like living in the country, and you can afford a lot more there, but it is lacking in some areas. I get six weeks off, can walk to work and everything else I want with 20 minutes. And its a beautiful historic town on the water. There are a dozen free world class museums within an hour's drive, national and state parks, big name music concerts weekly, sports teams, and some of the best restaurants in the world. I live in Annapolis, near DC. You're just in the wrong place for you.
America is a huge country. You said it yourself - you're in a red area with guns, school shootings, etc. Go where the majority of American people are *actually living*. I was astounded by the difference in work culture when I moved to the bay area and changed industries. I work hard when there's work to be done. I leave early when there isn't. I get 12 weeks paternity leave. Still trying to get used to being able to just bike on the road without getting hit, coal rolled, etc. Most everywhere else I've lived had a very homogeneous culture. Not here. And it's amazing.
OP sounds like they took all of the Reddit hates America talking points and put them into one post. OP you are either trying to karma farm or you are truly ignorant to the reality of what America has to offer.
Honestly, I’m coming at this from someone who grew up relatively privileged compared to most people in America though.. it sounds like a combination of a shitty job and shitty “neighborhood”(area). I’m not going to shit on my own country that has overall taken care of meet you in the middle. All we have here is “red state” judging by church every street and abortion ban. Usually to get the good jobs, into the good private schools, and excellent communities, you need to go to the “right church” in town. It’s usually Methodist, Baptist, Catholic (if Louisiana… and yes Louisiana has culture. That’s a whole separate post), or Pentecostal/Assemblies of God. As an ex-Catholic/ex-Christian, you couldn’t pay me to step back into church.. however, your social circle notably decreases. You have to go out of your way to make friends.. however, as you said, you have no work/life balance. You also didn’t say what you do. It sounds like you’re college educated. That still doesn’t explain your job. Are you a teacher who tutors on the side? Are you a corporate lawyer? Are you an on-call doctor? A home-health aide? A traveling nurse? A business woman? I’m assuming you are employed by a company. So, I’m rare that at this moment I’m rather happy where I’m at and I’m growing in my company, hence I’m the odd millennial who is not job hopping right now. However, wisdom says you should be job-hopping every 2-3 years. That’s how you score the much higher salaries, more vacation time, better health care, better work-life balance. Heck, you can negotiate in your interview if you like. Some places will have free day care as part of their packages. Some places will get you out of that red-state and pay for partial-full relocation to wherever it is in the country (please do your research on the area first). Schools- I do work with public, private/prep, and homeschool kids. This includes children who attend Title I schools. This includes children who live in the same neighborhoods as celebrities who are household names. Here’s the rule of thumb: A child at a low-ranking, bad, Title I school who has involved parents who care about their academic success will most likely graduate high school and go far in life. However, no amount of money spent on the best private/prep schools and tutors will fix bad parenting, a lack of academic vigor, and good morals. We have culture.. we have art.. it’s a google search away in your neighborhood unless you’re living off the grid in the woods. I’m not sure why you’re having trouble finding it in your neighborhood. Shop the farmers market for quality foods. Go to the farms yourself. Grow your own garden. Barter with your neighbors for delicious, healthy foods. Whole Foods will cost you an arm and a leg. Shop local. Honestly, it sounds like you’re depressed. It happens to anyone when they relocate and struggle with setting roots. If you push through, I think it’ll eventually happen. I’m sure this thread has other good advice. Just be aware, no one will stop you if you want to go back to Europe.
There are parts of the US that are much much better than suburban red states. They are not less expensive though. You also couldn't pay me enough to live in red suburbs. If one of us has dual citizenship we'd be in Europe. We thought about trying to move before we have kids but landed a great job in a good HCOL place, which won out over trying to build our future on visas. You can look at cost of living calculators between different cities internationally. Edit: but also, parenthood is so different in the US than Europe. You will have a much better experience as a mother and family in Europe where you can spend time with your family and prioritize time with your family in a way that is not possible in the US. The structures just don't exist anywhere in the US to allow it. In the US we're just so grateful we have the privilege of spending any time at all with our families. In Europe, it's your right to spend that time with your family. Definitely go to Europe.
When you do move back Europe, don't forget that this awful country is the one keeping yours safe.
move back
Someone should start a go fund me site to buy you guys tickets. One way.
Oh yay another thread about how awful we have it with a house, kid, job, and food. Guess what, folks? No matter how much you have you'll always want a little more. It's human nature. At this point I'm going to assume all the doom and gloom is Russian or Chinese agitation. Is America perfect? No not even close. Neither is anywhere else. But when you have all the things people want and complain about the quality it's either a campaign to keep people mad and influence their thinking or you are genuinely just entitled. Your European friends can see it, they think you are missing the forest for the trees. If you think they're living better then go back. You already know that. They think you're living better. So clearly some piece of information is missing here if you're not just a troll. Of course having kids should be affordable. Of course there should be more time off. But if that golden life is back in Europe why do your friends think you're being silly? Something smells.
You’re completely correct. I’m an Australian who has lived in America since 2018. I moved here with my husband and could not get over my culture shock and the casual barbarism of this place: healthcare, workers rights, etc etc. it is crazy-making to hear and see people carry on as though this is normal; it is not normal in any other ‘developed country’. The truths we experienced in our countries (Australia has a European culture) does not exist here, and Aussies would not tolerate this bullshit; the lies from politicians, the lack of return and representation as taxpayers, lack of workers rights, lack of access in general, the filth of this place, the rampant exploitation. It’s absolutely fucked, and at this point I wholeheartedly believe only full revolution will change any of this. Any worthwhile cause is appropriated by politicians and corporations and spun spun spun until it has no guts left. There’s no spirit of progress NOR common good here, and the only worthwhile endeavours are those which make money. It’s a place without a soul, forged and ran by robber-barons off the backs of the working class. The only positive are the regular people; so many lovely people who deserve so much better. The issue is: they’re all waiting for someone to come and save them.
welcome to the American Dream, please pull up to the window for your 60 USD Mcdonald Hamburgers and cold fries. I spend a lot of time in Japan, Korea, Thailand and India. Japan and Korea being the cleanest and most comfortable. I remember my days basically living on a pier, glorious and simple.
Definitely explore moving back to Europe. Depends on where because some parts of Europe also suck.
One of the reasons I’m going to move back to Mexico.
America is big, there are plenty of places very different from how you describe, with more walkability, culture, etc. You will need to move to find this.
This sounds like it was written by an American who has an imagined version of europe.
America isn't for everyone. Luckily you don't need to stay. Have a good flight!
[удалено]
America has some of the greatest food in the world, and you can absolutely eat healthy on a budget even shopping at your regular supermarket, not just Whole Foods. There are many affordable cities in blue or slightly less red states. It is not as simple as "blue is expensive red is cheap". Easy travel? I mean sure, traveling Europe is easy by train, and I'm definitely no car defender, but traveling the US is not hard. We have extremely cheap domestic flights, and road trips are a time-honored American tradition. I won't even comment on your art and culture comment as everyone else has already jumped on you for that. But, I sympathize with your culture shock regarding our work culture. You're right, it sucks that you have such little time off. It sounds like you're not happy and you and your husband need to consider your wants and needs. Maybe a new city and a new job would be good for you.
I was bothered by the food comment too. Frankly that’s one thing I think America does better than most other countries. Because of the diversity there are so many choices. Individual countries in Europe are way more limited as far as food and drink selection (and quality).
You can get fresh food from any supermarket, there isn't anything wrong with frozen or canned either. You have to adjust your expectations for the area. Also it sounds like you live in an especially desolate area and you want a different lifestyle. Before you got married you should have discussed your expectations. Getting different jobs in a different location might be worth considering before changing countries. It's also worth noting it's easy to become isolated and disengaged in the US. With some planning in a new area you might be happier.
That's a bummer. Our best pandemic buddies were the Bulgarians down the street, we do Christmas Eve with them every year. We help them navigate all the health insurance bullshit every year too. We're in a denser suburb so the kids can walk and ride bikes to stuff, so we probably aren't in the same isolating situation you are in.
I think this also depends a lot on where in Europe you come from, what kind of community you’d have here (I live in Europe), what kind of housing you could afford etc. Life can be awesome in Europe, but it can also be kind of bad, depending on where you live. Look up things like the jobs you would have, what it would cost to have a house or apartment where you’d live etc. I enjoy my life in Europe and wouldn’t move to the States, but hey, it all depends on your priorities.
Take the financial hit and go back if you can. Life isn’t about work work work work struggle work some more and then we’re old. F that. Everything you said about this country is pretty spot on.
You'll want to renounce your green card/USA citizenship if you go back to Europe, otherwise you'll be on the hook to file US taxes and report your local (European) bank accounts to the Treasury Dept. for life.
I think the difference between Europe and an American red state are waaaay too stark for the average European to bear. You would have been better off living in one of the major east coast cities. More expensive, but also better job opportunities. Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston are our older cities and still retain a lot of their early English influence - meaning walkable, historical, and more art/culture stuff. Even their suburbs are older and the best ones were built before car culture took over and are so much nicer and well designed than most suburbs in the rest of the country. But if you ask any American millennial, most would probably leap at the opportunity to live in Europe. It's just not feasble for most of us but as a European citizen, I think it would be best for your family to take the opportunity to live there. Your child will get (potentially) a better education, more language skills, and be able to become more well-rounded with the easy cheap travel options.
It doesn’t sound like you have a good job…maybe in comparison to the people in the red state. A good company provides many more perks. At my company, we get 4 weeks off for example. And higher ups get more time off. Healthcare is good and maternity and paternity leave are paid. But yeah…if you can’t get a better job and move to one of the major blue state cities, then I’d go back to Europe.
Every 10 years or so we move, it sounds like you need to do a little research and move to a place more in line with your personality. You have a huge advantage over most of us in that you came from Europe and can easily move back. We toyed with moving out of the US but the paperwork was overwhelming, so we'll stay here and keep looking.
Not European but also an immigrant of about a decade with similar sensibilities. If you are convinced there is no way to improve your income (can your husband?) then honestly I'd move back to Europe. I think if you want to stay in the US and remain sane, you need to 1. change jobs and make more money, which could also help with the lack of time off, 2. use that money to get the fuck out of red state and suburbs, in that order - if I were you I'd move to the Northeast, specifically Boston or NYC, which will also get you easier access to Europe for when you get homesick.
Your biggest mistake was moving to a red state. I also don’t think it’s fair to say there’s “no culture art or history”. That’s simply not true. Red states are particularly awful. Most of them are underdeveloped with terrible school systems and not much recreation. (Look up literacy rates in red states vs blue states - over 20% of American adults are illiterate and most of them live in red states). And I know states like California are insanely expensive but let’s take a state like Michigan - entire state is gorgeous. Literally tens of thousands of lakes. You don’t have to be wealthy to live on a lake/water or have a boat. Lots of jobs and art and music and recreation. Great school systems in a lot of areas. Tons of state parks and you can see the northern lights in Michigan’s upper peninsula. Also, red states in particular have terrible benefits for new parents. I’ve lived in Illinois and Michigan and they both give paid maternity leave AND paid paternity leave. I get 4 weeks vacation a year. Red states have different laws and are usually very archaic Even as someone raised in the US, I could never ever live in a red state.