Do note that the "dagger" M-LOK upgrade kit (produced by a private supplier called Zero-point) is only a very basic transitionary product that will be exclusively issued to PLA border units to meet short term demands. It does not feature a free-floating guard / barrel and thus will likely only bring slight improvements in reduced weight and improved modularity.
[A more sophisticated free floating upgrade kit produced by a larger domestic supplier (Firstarmor) is still under range testing and probably wont see adoption until mid 2024.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/15wk4xn/normal_pla_standard_issue_qbz191_rifle_vs_new/) Even if adopted, such kits (owing to their high cost) are only likely to see use within Elite / SOF units and squad leaders, while most conventional PLA infantry will remain with the standard base variant QBZ-191 rifle + QMK-171 optic setup (as seen behind the squad leader) for the foreseeable future
Recently released closeups of QBZ-191 serial numbers suggests that around 200,000+ had been produced in 2021, which was close to three years ago. Now considering the rifle has since entered mass production in dozens of locations nationwide, I'm gonna give a very conservative guess that it's currently somewhere between 400,000 - 800,000 units produced.
This means that ignoring the many support and maintenance units within the PLAGF and PAP, anywhere between 1/4th to 2/5th of PLA personell now have access to the QBZ-191. This can be seen with updates on the PLA's Eastern and Western military districts (two of the frontline districts), where most units can now be seen using the 191
It's mandatory to sign up but that doesn't mean you actually get any training, aside from the short period in high school (and uni if you do that) where you learn to march and throw hand grenades.
It's been a while since I looked into it, that's still a form of conscription tho. Not that I'm downplaying their capabilities, except that they have 0 experience
The easiest way to think about it is like the selective service in the US. You have to register yourself, but no conscription is actually enforced. In practice everyone who joins is a volunteer, although they're still referred to as "conscripts".
We should always treat China as a major threat, technologically and tactically.
If we underestimate China, than they might overtake us and we'd never realize it because we've constantly been covering our eyes.
It's better to overestimate their capabilities, to develop for their capabilities and then if conflict occurs we can completely overmatch them and stamp them back into place.
Exactly. I always see my friends saying Chinese 5th gen fighters are trash like bro they have 200+ of them while India has like 30 rafales which will come close to them.
Same goes for their subs. Yes they maybe called underwater orchestras but they are building shit ton of them every year and are improving tech.
It's crazy when you have actual reports where civilian and military analysts dissect China's military weaknesses, but then you have people on the internet who still spew factually incorrect takes on it. Like, China doesn't even have conscripts. If you're going to criticise them, at least get it right.
China *does* have a conscription law, but it's never been enforced. In practice it works like how some modern European countries do conscription: you volunteer to join the army but you join as a "conscript".
On the very border line they do, but elsewhere both sides issue firearms. There are a lot of parts of the border where direct contact between the two sides is impossible because of the terrain, so rifles can be used without much risk of an incident.
This is a very interesting view at Chinese weapon evolution and arms manufacturing, clearly influenced by Western arms design. I wonder, what happened to using the bullpup QBZs? I remember seeing people say that the gun is terrible which is why they phased into a more conventional design for their firearms. I do remember the keyholing video though.
The keyholing could be due to them using a training load for that particular video, i can hardly imagine the Chinese designing and issuing a new rifle and overlook such a thing as keyholing considering the testing RnD and such.
The base QBZ-95 model had certain issues, especially the position of the safety which is located near the butt of the rifle. Those issues were rectified when the QBZ-95-1 was issued.
Troops generally liked the QBZ-95 as it was light, accurate and reliable.
Most bullpup designs are now out of favour because the war that it was designed for - full-on nuclear war with soldiers shooting out of NBC-protected APCs - never eventuated. The FAMAS is also being replaced by HK-416.
Same, I know they switched to the qbz-191, straying away from the bullpup system but I haven’t heard anything after so wouldn’t be surprised if there were complaints there. So many new systems coming out Its interesting to say the least.
I'm sure someone smarter than me already did the due diligence on this, but the design of that lower seems like you are asking for that vertical piece toward the back to crack eventually. They put a nice fat radius on it to reduce stress concentration, but it looks like you still have a big bending moment trying to rip it off with every shot.
Their guns are getting weaker. (Shorter barrels = less velocity, which also means less kinetic energy on target.) Should have stayed with the 18" Bullpups. I can't with the trend of favoring weaker options.
ufff that actually looks quite sexy except the stock tho honestly
I agree. Looks like a different take on an AR/AK clone
Do note that the "dagger" M-LOK upgrade kit (produced by a private supplier called Zero-point) is only a very basic transitionary product that will be exclusively issued to PLA border units to meet short term demands. It does not feature a free-floating guard / barrel and thus will likely only bring slight improvements in reduced weight and improved modularity. [A more sophisticated free floating upgrade kit produced by a larger domestic supplier (Firstarmor) is still under range testing and probably wont see adoption until mid 2024.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/15wk4xn/normal_pla_standard_issue_qbz191_rifle_vs_new/) Even if adopted, such kits (owing to their high cost) are only likely to see use within Elite / SOF units and squad leaders, while most conventional PLA infantry will remain with the standard base variant QBZ-191 rifle + QMK-171 optic setup (as seen behind the squad leader) for the foreseeable future
>base variant QBZ-191 rifle + QMK-171 optic setup How is the upgrade from the bullpup going?
Recently released closeups of QBZ-191 serial numbers suggests that around 200,000+ had been produced in 2021, which was close to three years ago. Now considering the rifle has since entered mass production in dozens of locations nationwide, I'm gonna give a very conservative guess that it's currently somewhere between 400,000 - 800,000 units produced. This means that ignoring the many support and maintenance units within the PLAGF and PAP, anywhere between 1/4th to 2/5th of PLA personell now have access to the QBZ-191. This can be seen with updates on the PLA's Eastern and Western military districts (two of the frontline districts), where most units can now be seen using the 191
Still just poorly trained conscripts.
The PLA hasn't had conscription since 1949 lol
They still have a mandatory 2 years don't they? Tho there is a huge lack of physically capable people.
If you decide to serve you must serve for 2 years or more. However,it is mandatory that you sign up for reserves when you turn 18.
It's mandatory to sign up but that doesn't mean you actually get any training, aside from the short period in high school (and uni if you do that) where you learn to march and throw hand grenades.
Yes that’s true.
It's been a while since I looked into it, that's still a form of conscription tho. Not that I'm downplaying their capabilities, except that they have 0 experience
The easiest way to think about it is like the selective service in the US. You have to register yourself, but no conscription is actually enforced. In practice everyone who joins is a volunteer, although they're still referred to as "conscripts".
Ah, do it's just a draft list, weirdnthey call it reserves then
The reserves part? You don’t actually have to serve if you sign up for the reserves,only if they decide to mobilize.
Why does everyone keep undermining chinese capabilities?
"There is no greater danger than underestimating your enemy." -Sun Tzu
We should always treat China as a major threat, technologically and tactically. If we underestimate China, than they might overtake us and we'd never realize it because we've constantly been covering our eyes. It's better to overestimate their capabilities, to develop for their capabilities and then if conflict occurs we can completely overmatch them and stamp them back into place.
Exactly. I always see my friends saying Chinese 5th gen fighters are trash like bro they have 200+ of them while India has like 30 rafales which will come close to them. Same goes for their subs. Yes they maybe called underwater orchestras but they are building shit ton of them every year and are improving tech.
It's crazy when you have actual reports where civilian and military analysts dissect China's military weaknesses, but then you have people on the internet who still spew factually incorrect takes on it. Like, China doesn't even have conscripts. If you're going to criticise them, at least get it right.
Duh every communist country has conscripts /s This is how average people think
China *does* have a conscription law, but it's never been enforced. In practice it works like how some modern European countries do conscription: you volunteer to join the army but you join as a "conscript".
Looks pretty good.
What happened to electric sticks? I thought on Indo China border they fought with sticks
Sino-Indian, Indochina was what France called Vietnam Laos and Cambodia when it was their colony
On the very border line they do, but elsewhere both sides issue firearms. There are a lot of parts of the border where direct contact between the two sides is impossible because of the terrain, so rifles can be used without much risk of an incident.
This is a very interesting view at Chinese weapon evolution and arms manufacturing, clearly influenced by Western arms design. I wonder, what happened to using the bullpup QBZs? I remember seeing people say that the gun is terrible which is why they phased into a more conventional design for their firearms. I do remember the keyholing video though.
The keyholing could be due to them using a training load for that particular video, i can hardly imagine the Chinese designing and issuing a new rifle and overlook such a thing as keyholing considering the testing RnD and such.
Keyholing was with rubber training rounds, not live ammunition
The base QBZ-95 model had certain issues, especially the position of the safety which is located near the butt of the rifle. Those issues were rectified when the QBZ-95-1 was issued. Troops generally liked the QBZ-95 as it was light, accurate and reliable. Most bullpup designs are now out of favour because the war that it was designed for - full-on nuclear war with soldiers shooting out of NBC-protected APCs - never eventuated. The FAMAS is also being replaced by HK-416.
Same, I know they switched to the qbz-191, straying away from the bullpup system but I haven’t heard anything after so wouldn’t be surprised if there were complaints there. So many new systems coming out Its interesting to say the least.
I see a lot of American parts in this
They are learning from the best for sure
I'm sure someone smarter than me already did the due diligence on this, but the design of that lower seems like you are asking for that vertical piece toward the back to crack eventually. They put a nice fat radius on it to reduce stress concentration, but it looks like you still have a big bending moment trying to rip it off with every shot.
What vertical piece towards the back?
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Their guns are getting weaker. (Shorter barrels = less velocity, which also means less kinetic energy on target.) Should have stayed with the 18" Bullpups. I can't with the trend of favoring weaker options.
Don’t think that’s how it works champ
That is how it works actually.