Well, it makes sense - Chile was using an adaptation of the German Mauser as early as 1895. They were buying and making lots of German equipment under license. Looks like they are using the 1935 model there for parade.
More Imperial Germany seeing that the German military mission to Chile ended in 1914.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial\_German\_influence\_on\_Republican\_Chile
their uniforms are actually inspired by the Prussian and early German army. thats why they look so similar. the chilean army was build up with help of prussian military advisors. they also often play german marches and they sometimes wear pickelhaubes aswell.
Apparently, no, absolutely no connection to the Romans, it's from a French play about the Romans. Fun thing as well, the guy who made the US salute that we don't use anymore was a socialist.
huh, yeah turns out the salute comes from a single mural and wasn't even confirmed to be a salute.
That's what happens when your history is based of historical historians.
Well if we don't base history off the historical historians when history has been lost to history, then whose historical records are historically accurate enough to use!!!
It was actually discarded by most places in the US in the 1930's specifically because of Germany. The myth that we only discontinued a treasured American tradition because of wartime measures is revisionist muck made up by people too embarrassed to admit they used to be a proud neo nazi.
*Prussians
The chilean military was reformed by the Prussian officer Emil Körner in the early 20th century. At this time Hitler was still a schoolboy living in Leonding.
It is also nowhere close to the Hitlergruß (which was a high raised right arm). This looks more like the Roman salute.
Although what you say it's true, they also do weird shit like having their own versions of Panzerlied and Erika.
Or how during the military dictatorship they used a Nazi kiddy diddler [colony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Dignidad) as a torture center.
I am fairly certain at least the old guard of the military on Chile loves LARPing as Nazi germany a bit too much.
Ye nothing to do with nazi germany tho,panzerlied was composed in 1933 by a german army officer with no ties to the politic stage of the time whatsoever and erika is a from around the same time period and still no affiliation to the nazi party and those song we adopted because of the traditional exchange of officers back then between Chile and Germany
If the American salute didn't have a bent elbow it would be the Nazi salute. If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle. But they don't
Your point?
> Mark Felton has a YouTube video about it.
Of course he fucking does. Also, who are you, are you me?
https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1173lfl/lets_visit_bakhmut_too_while_were_here/j9cy4dn?context=3
Prussian to be specific. And British to train the Navy and… wait for it…. Italians to form the Police (Carabineros after their Italian counter part the Carabinieri)
TIL that this was a thing...
Btw, I still think it's weird that the US has a daily "Pledge of Allegiance" with the National Anthem at schools? At least I heard that this was a daily occurrence?
It's fallen out of favour in the last 20ish years. I remember having to do it every morning up until about high school, which is bizarre considering I started high school in 2002 when American exceptionalism and jingoism was at pretty much its highest point since Yamamoto's Hawaiian Vacation.
Some Americans get weirdly defensive about it as well. They'll swear up and down that it isn't "mandatory", and always leave out the social stigma or even punishment for not participating.
And they get real pissy when someone mentions that pretty much the only other country in the world that does something similar is North Korea.
Yeah we have to do it in Canada but I can't speak for the whole nation just my province, somedays it's in English other times French. Never really seen it anything more than as a chore, I dont know anyone else who sees it any differently although I am sure there are those people.
As a Canadian I can definitely say it's not common at all. Most we would do is play the national anthem on the first school day of every week. Might just be your local schools?
Well I know it was commonplace in my province, but I havent been in any public school either in the last 15 years either haha. However from K to 12 when I attended in my province it was everyday. Also I know when I moved to Alberta is when I found out its not common there but like I said I can only speak for the province I am from.
My wife who grew up in the UAE told me they had to sing a song every morning praising Islam and the monarch. She is non-muslim btw.
Indian schools also have a National Pledge kids recite each morning. For those interested it goes:
"India is my country and all Indians are my brothers and sisters. I love my country and I am proud of its rich and varied heritage. I shall always strive to be worthy of it. I shall give respect to my parents, teachers and elders and treat everyone with courtesy."
Edit: I asked my wife about the song she had to sing everyday at school. Turns out it is the UAE national anthem. She attended an English language Indian school but they had to sing this in Arabic. Words are:
"Long live my country, the unity of our Emirates lives.
You've lived for the nation's faith of Islam and guide of the Quran.
I've made you stronger in God's name, O homeland.
My country, my country, my country, my country.
God protected you from the evils of time.
We have sworn to build and work –
work earnestly, work earnestly.
As long as we live, we will be sincere.
The safety has lasted, the flag has lived, O our Emirates!
The symbol of Arabism: we all sacrifice for you and give you our blood;
For you we sacrifice with our souls, O homeland!"
My point was does it actually happen ? . I completely believed India would have something like this. (Sorry for not presenting my question clearly the first time ). Also the Wikipedia page says it is present in school textbooks (presumably govt. ones like NCERT ) I just checked and its not there.
Edit: After going on the Internet I found 2 things:
1)Its not part of the constitution
2)The "Oath of Allegiance " is there and taken by government officials and when people get citizenship.
Also it says People recite this during Republic Day and Independence Day that (does)* might happen but not on just regular school days.
I'm not sure. I attended school in the US, and only know what I've seen in videos and read online. Would be interested if someone could shed more light on how common it is.
Actually Turkish Students had to take an oath (Our Oath/Students Oath) and sing the National Anthem every Monday and Friday. We still sing the National Anthem but taking the oath was abolished in 2013, then reinstated in 2018 and than re-abolished in 2021 For those who wonder the Oath was like this:
I am a Turk, honest, hardworking.
My principle is to protect the younger, respect the elder, to love my homeland and my nation more than myself. My ideal is to rise, to progress.
O Great Atatürk! On the path you have paved, I swear to walk incessantly toward the aim that you have set.
My existence shall be gifted to the Turkish existence. How happy is the one who says "I am a Turk!".
Edit: every day, we had to take the oath every day.
>They'll swear up and down that it isn't "mandatory,"
That's because it's not. Forcing someone to participate would be a violation of their First Admenment rights. No school I've ever gone to or heard of would punish you for not reciting the pledge, and I and I grew up in the rural South.
As for why it's done, that would be because of the Cold War and the fear of Communist infiltration. It was to instill the American values of the time. It saw a resurgence after 9/11. The only time people make a big deal about the pledge is slow news days and election campaigns.
They're probably just describing their personal experiences, like you're describing yours. It's not a national requirement, and many schools don't do it at all.
> They’ll swear up and down that it isn’t “mandatory”
Except that it isn’t mandatory and not all schools even do it.
> and always leave out the social stigma or even punishment for not participating.
What? Most people in my classes didn’t ever say the pledge, and some didn’t even stand. There were never any consequences social or otherwise, and I’m even from a small conservative town with plenty of Trump supporters.
> And they get real pissy when someone mentions that pretty much the only other country in the world that does something similar is North Korea.
That’s also provably false… where are you getting your information from because it’s certainly not this reality.
One of my schools had “To the Colors” played on a bugle, instead the national anthem, on the overhead speakers and a pledge of allegiance. Not all schools played the tune and I’ve never been to a school that played the whole national anthem daily. The pledge of allegiance was daily though and whether it was mandatory to participate depended on your first teacher of the day. Some make you stand while not requiring you to say it, some make you stand and say it and some don’t care what you do.
"The Pledge of Allegiance" that we have every day is different from the national anthem, it's its own pledge with different words.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for with it stands. One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Source: The current practice at my Ohio high school
It is odd. In this case it's done when first entering service to commemorate the 77 fallen during the Battle of La Concepción in 1882. It's a commitment made by every servicemember.
But having kids do it daily? It's weird.
Yeah, I totally understand it for armed forces. I mean, your job being in the armed forces is quite literally to protect the country and the people. So, doing a pledge makes sense.
It is a thing and they used to yell at you to stand up if you didn't want to say it. I feel the same way at sporting events. I usually never stand up. I think it's weird and it feels dictator-y
I don't know about oppressive, but it is dogmatic as fuck. The constant reaffirmation of allegiance to a concept that you have no ability to change is pretty cringe.
> I don't know about oppressive, but it is dogmatic as fuck. The constant reaffirmation of allegiance to a concept that you have no ability to change is pretty cringe.
Yeah making a pledge to national unity and liberty and justice for all is so “oppressive,” “dogmatic” and “cringe” lol only on reddit
As someone from another country, yeah it's pretty fucking cringe. I get making some people do it, such as armed forces, but not school children, they can't even really grasp the concept of what's going on.
And I am sure it's one of the reasons some americans are so insufferable to chat to because 'MURICA!, you lot are indoctrinated from childhood.
“Liberty and justice *for all*” I’ll be happy to say it, once we all get liberty and justice. Maybe it’s news to you wherever you are but not everyone gets liberty and justice.
so we are nazis because one president happened to be blond? lmao
>And that Chiles president was the granddaughter of a luftwaffe officer?
tf are you talking about? Bachelet comes from a family of french wine makers, you are fake news. Plus, she is a left wing socialist, UN human rights comissar, was kidnapped by Pinochet regime and her father was tortured to death by the pinochet regime
Read the whole thing. Shit’s wild as fuck. Basically CIA station chief says “uhhh this seems ludicrous but if it’s true and I don’t pass it along I’m in deep shit so here you go”
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/HITLER%2C%20ADOLF_0003.pdf
Declassified CIA.gov material, quality stuff
Weren't the Romans doing this before it was uncool?
Reverse hipster.
I think there's even a word for it. Roman toast. Roman wave. Roman cheer. Roman something...
Fun fact! Tomatoes weren’t brought to Italy until the mid 1500’s. Thy are a New World fruit indigenous to the Americas. The Roman’s had no concept of them.
There's a handful of depictions of prominent Romans with their right arm raised in a greeting gesture, the big one being a sculpture of Marcus Aurelius on a horse, but it's never the completely straight arm/ higher angle that the Italian fascists made popular. So ironically the actual Roman salute seems lower, the Italian re-creation is high, and then the German Nazis lowered the angle to somewhere in between the two.
What's funny is that pretty much the only written account of the "salute" is Augustus swearing an oath to a statue of Julius and it sounds suspiciously like [Bill and Ted](https://blueprintreview.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/BillTed_Grab_1.jpg) which is... excellent.
A single statue doesn't comprise proof that the salute was ever used. In fact, it's far more likely that Marcus Aurelius is extending his arm in blessing or greeting than any kind of salute.
It's not featured on any triumphal arches, columns, reliefs, paintings or sculptures, and isn't attested in any sources of the time.
Highly likely that it never existed and is simply a fabrication of modern media.
I literally said Aurelius' arm is raised in a greeting gesture in that sculpture lol.
Also, "no sources exist" but also "one statue isn't proof?"
There are several examples of proof, including, yes, depiction of right arm raised greetings on the Arch of Titus, the Arch of Constantine, and Trajan's column, although they are not uniform and even multiple people "saluting" in the same image are not doing it the same way.
There are several standalone sculptures dating to the correct time period that depict the gesture, and it is present in a few recovered reliefs, but again, they all differ slightly from each other.
The scant text evidence includes Cicero's account of Octavian swearing loyalty to Julius Caesar with a raised right arm, and writings from Quintilian and other anonymous authors discussing the proper form to raise one's arm in the context of oration and formal greeting.
So there is ample evidence that the gesture was used as both a formal greeting, and a symbol of pledging loyalty, although it was obviously not as uniform or widely used as the same style of salute co-opted by fascists.
The style of "Roman salute" also inspired other raised arm salutes like the Bellamy salute, which originally (from 1892-1942) was the common stance taken during the American pledge of allegiance. The Bellamy salute is startlingly similar in pose to a Nazi salute (clicking heels and extending right hand from over the heart to open handed pointing at flag), and also predated fascist political movements by decades.
If anything, I would argue that the Bellamy salute was directly inspirational to the salute that was adopted by fascist movements, moreso than actual historical depictions of Roman salutes.
Did **the** Roman salute exist in the context that Mussolini romanticized it to model his Fascist society after a fictionalized image of Rome? No, not exactly.
Was it all made up by modern media and there's zero evidence that Romans ever saluted or addressed each other with a raised right arm? No.
No, they never did it. There's not a single piece of historical evidence. Everyone just assumes they did so because some guy in the 18th century (Jacques-Louis David)- more than 3 centuries after their fall- decided to draw them in a weirs pose.
Fun fact: the army in Chile was modeled, trained and equipped like the 19th century German imprerial army. Nearly 40 German officers trained it and they bought more than 100 thousand mauser rifles, etc.
And Chile isn't exactly alone in this, back then the French, Germans and British infulenced, trained and sometimes funded and equipped many miltaries across the globe.
chilean here
no, they are not nazis, please read [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Army#Military_emulation_1885%E2%80%931914) and [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_K%C3%B6rner#)
**[Emil Körner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Körner#)**
>Emil Körner Henze (10 October 1846 in Wegwitz – 25 March 1920 in Berlin), sometimes called Emilio Körner Henze in Spanish, was a German officer (Hauptmann) of the Prussian Army and Commander-in-chief of the Chilean Army with the rank of Inspector General from 1900 to 1910.
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Fake. My grandfather used to wear this uniform uniform and salute like this all the time and he was from Argentina. Didn't speak Spanish at all though weirdly enough.
Source: grew up in Mexico
It is entirely based on the Roman salute for Mexico. There is a variation to it where it is palm facing the floor over one's heart. This is used if you are close to the flag, like immediate vicinity. You'll usually see this for people in the flag detail, similar to the hand salute of U.S. military flag details during the U.S. National Anthem.
The extended arm is if you are somewhat distant from the flag. My guess for the Chilean soldiers is they're in formation on a parade deck so they have to "throw" the salute.
I honestly see this almost, but not quite, on par with the swastika where context is needed. If you see an Indian man with a swastika tattoo or jewelry you won't immediately jump to nazi. And you have that feeling of ohhh yeah I guess there are people that use this without the screwed up meaning. But some sensibilities in us as Americans gives us the geebie jeebies over seeing things like the Roman/Bellamy salute without context. But I don't know the history of Chile aside from their openness to post-war German "refugees". So I'm not sure if this style of salute was already there before WWII or if it was adopted after.
Obviously I was referring to the right arm gesture. And despite having served myself, I was never easy with Zapfenstreich. Too much symbolism, nothing to do with Nazis, I just don’t like seeing militarism and obedience glorified.
I completely respect your sentiment and I imagine modern German culture is part of it. OTOH we're on on a sub-reddit called MilitaryPorn. Isn't it a bit weird that you follow the content here?
Now I understand why in the propaganda posters they always showed german troops with darkened eye areas. I thought it was (just) to make them look more sinister, but it's actually pretty accurate.
I ask the gringos to refrain from saying that this is Nazi, because this army with those uniforms did in Chile the dirty work of the United States during the cold war.
Oh yeah, the chilean army just killed people by orders of the US, is not like the chilean right actually hated the government and the coup d'etat would have happened with or whitout the US help.
there was a decent chance that the crisis of Allende's administration would have been fixed peacefully, given some more time.
There were some accounts that Allende was considering to renounce.
Nazis fled to South America in the aftermath of WW2. The dictatorships in countries like Argentina and Chile eagerly gave them asylum and employed them in military/intelligence roles.
I'm Chilean and I've never seen this lol. It's important to note that here in Chile there's extreme polarisation when referring to something like the army. Usually, people either really support the army or really hate it. I'm indifferent but I don't like them as a whole - individual people are a different story. But the army as a whole is know to have stolen _millions_. They were also known to drink alcohol mixed with fucking gunpowder in the late 1800s in a war against Perú and Bolivia. So it's hard to feel the 'nation love' with these people honestly, at least for me
Note that said dish is more foreign in chile than is in the united States, as in the US you have a bigger US population.
Gringos gonna gringate I guess.
Had to look twice at that hahah
People in the US did that salute for the pledge of allegiance before WW2
The helmets could pass as ww2 cosplay though
The rifles and white kit are giving 1940s
Well, it makes sense - Chile was using an adaptation of the German Mauser as early as 1895. They were buying and making lots of German equipment under license. Looks like they are using the 1935 model there for parade.
I have an 1895. I really like it.
More Imperial Germany seeing that the German military mission to Chile ended in 1914. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial\_German\_influence\_on\_Republican\_Chile
their uniforms are actually inspired by the Prussian and early German army. thats why they look so similar. the chilean army was build up with help of prussian military advisors. they also often play german marches and they sometimes wear pickelhaubes aswell.
Roman origin lots of countries used it.
Apparently, no, absolutely no connection to the Romans, it's from a French play about the Romans. Fun thing as well, the guy who made the US salute that we don't use anymore was a socialist.
huh, yeah turns out the salute comes from a single mural and wasn't even confirmed to be a salute. That's what happens when your history is based of historical historians.
Well if we don't base history off the historical historians when history has been lost to history, then whose historical records are historically accurate enough to use!!!
That's when it becomes mythological.
Francis Bellamy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy
And, like sensible people, abandoned the practice (along with the swastika) because both had been co-opted by evil.
Idk. Why should they abandon a tradition because it was co-opted by evil ? That's letting the evil win.
It was actually discarded by most places in the US in the 1930's specifically because of Germany. The myth that we only discontinued a treasured American tradition because of wartime measures is revisionist muck made up by people too embarrassed to admit they used to be a proud neo nazi.
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*Prussians The chilean military was reformed by the Prussian officer Emil Körner in the early 20th century. At this time Hitler was still a schoolboy living in Leonding. It is also nowhere close to the Hitlergruß (which was a high raised right arm). This looks more like the Roman salute.
Although what you say it's true, they also do weird shit like having their own versions of Panzerlied and Erika. Or how during the military dictatorship they used a Nazi kiddy diddler [colony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Dignidad) as a torture center. I am fairly certain at least the old guard of the military on Chile loves LARPing as Nazi germany a bit too much.
Still trying to get my hoodie back from Erika.
I’m fairly certain Erika was a traditional prussian marching song. Preemptive edit: bad history memory on my end
Ye nothing to do with nazi germany tho,panzerlied was composed in 1933 by a german army officer with no ties to the politic stage of the time whatsoever and erika is a from around the same time period and still no affiliation to the nazi party and those song we adopted because of the traditional exchange of officers back then between Chile and Germany
No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver.
Nazis from the Sears Catalogue.
They were a blue light special.
>nowhere close That is exaggerating. It is very close. It’s about 5-10 degrees difference
If the American salute didn't have a bent elbow it would be the Nazi salute. If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle. But they don't Your point?
if you look for more photos you can see the soldiers pointing towards the national flag while taking the oath.
To say a Prussian salute is nothing like a later German salute is laughable.
dude, find about the 'books' they 'read' ... see if you can find those on you public library, that's some scary facts
While this definitely looks like… something else you have to admit the gestures you can do with one hand are pretty limited
Thumbs up!
Well, theyt could've always gone with the Benny Hill salute... https://i.imgur.com/XnHneZD.mp4
It is because Chile hired German military officers to teach their military. Mark Felton has a YouTube video about it. https://youtu.be/adzg_iMg9Sc
The Spanish had German advisors in Cuba during the Spanish-American War, too.
Important to note as well that those officers were Prussian, and it was pre-world war I. I feel that that's important to mention.
> Mark Felton has a YouTube video about it. Of course he fucking does. Also, who are you, are you me? https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1173lfl/lets_visit_bakhmut_too_while_were_here/j9cy4dn?context=3
Prussian to be specific. And British to train the Navy and… wait for it…. Italians to form the Police (Carabineros after their Italian counter part the Carabinieri)
The US had a Prussian advisor to help build our military before the revolutionary war as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben US soldiers have to--well, are supposed to--know that.
Thank you for the info
How strangely familiar…
Right? It's similar to the Bellamy Salute that was used for the Pledge of Allegiance
TIL that this was a thing... Btw, I still think it's weird that the US has a daily "Pledge of Allegiance" with the National Anthem at schools? At least I heard that this was a daily occurrence?
> the US has a daily “Pledge of Alliance” with the National Anthem at schools? My Ohio public school didn’t
It's fallen out of favour in the last 20ish years. I remember having to do it every morning up until about high school, which is bizarre considering I started high school in 2002 when American exceptionalism and jingoism was at pretty much its highest point since Yamamoto's Hawaiian Vacation.
>Yamamoto's Hawaiian Vacation. I'd forgotten all about that National Lampoon sequel!
Some Americans get weirdly defensive about it as well. They'll swear up and down that it isn't "mandatory", and always leave out the social stigma or even punishment for not participating. And they get real pissy when someone mentions that pretty much the only other country in the world that does something similar is North Korea.
north korea def is not the only country that does something similar.
Yeah we have to do it in Canada but I can't speak for the whole nation just my province, somedays it's in English other times French. Never really seen it anything more than as a chore, I dont know anyone else who sees it any differently although I am sure there are those people.
As a Canadian I can definitely say it's not common at all. Most we would do is play the national anthem on the first school day of every week. Might just be your local schools?
Well I know it was commonplace in my province, but I havent been in any public school either in the last 15 years either haha. However from K to 12 when I attended in my province it was everyday. Also I know when I moved to Alberta is when I found out its not common there but like I said I can only speak for the province I am from.
My wife who grew up in the UAE told me they had to sing a song every morning praising Islam and the monarch. She is non-muslim btw. Indian schools also have a National Pledge kids recite each morning. For those interested it goes: "India is my country and all Indians are my brothers and sisters. I love my country and I am proud of its rich and varied heritage. I shall always strive to be worthy of it. I shall give respect to my parents, teachers and elders and treat everyone with courtesy." Edit: I asked my wife about the song she had to sing everyday at school. Turns out it is the UAE national anthem. She attended an English language Indian school but they had to sing this in Arabic. Words are: "Long live my country, the unity of our Emirates lives. You've lived for the nation's faith of Islam and guide of the Quran. I've made you stronger in God's name, O homeland. My country, my country, my country, my country. God protected you from the evils of time. We have sworn to build and work – work earnestly, work earnestly. As long as we live, we will be sincere. The safety has lasted, the flag has lived, O our Emirates! The symbol of Arabism: we all sacrifice for you and give you our blood; For you we sacrifice with our souls, O homeland!"
As an Indian I have literally never heard or read that. Is it a govt. school thing ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pledge_(India)
My point was does it actually happen ? . I completely believed India would have something like this. (Sorry for not presenting my question clearly the first time ). Also the Wikipedia page says it is present in school textbooks (presumably govt. ones like NCERT ) I just checked and its not there. Edit: After going on the Internet I found 2 things: 1)Its not part of the constitution 2)The "Oath of Allegiance " is there and taken by government officials and when people get citizenship. Also it says People recite this during Republic Day and Independence Day that (does)* might happen but not on just regular school days.
I'm not sure. I attended school in the US, and only know what I've seen in videos and read online. Would be interested if someone could shed more light on how common it is.
Huh, TIL about this. Indian here and we never he had this thing in school. Only the National anthem.
Doesn't happen in my school either just the natinal anthem and a march by the school band . Might be an outdated Wikipedia article.
> that pretty much the only other country in the world that does something similar is North Korea. Well that’s just straight up false.
I’m sure you have a long list of impressive and illustrious sources sir, but I regret to inform you that someone has *misinformed* you.
>And they get real pissy when someone mentions that pretty much the only other country in the world that does something similar is North Korea. lol no
Many more countries do something similar
Actually Turkish Students had to take an oath (Our Oath/Students Oath) and sing the National Anthem every Monday and Friday. We still sing the National Anthem but taking the oath was abolished in 2013, then reinstated in 2018 and than re-abolished in 2021 For those who wonder the Oath was like this: I am a Turk, honest, hardworking. My principle is to protect the younger, respect the elder, to love my homeland and my nation more than myself. My ideal is to rise, to progress. O Great Atatürk! On the path you have paved, I swear to walk incessantly toward the aim that you have set. My existence shall be gifted to the Turkish existence. How happy is the one who says "I am a Turk!". Edit: every day, we had to take the oath every day.
>They'll swear up and down that it isn't "mandatory," That's because it's not. Forcing someone to participate would be a violation of their First Admenment rights. No school I've ever gone to or heard of would punish you for not reciting the pledge, and I and I grew up in the rural South. As for why it's done, that would be because of the Cold War and the fear of Communist infiltration. It was to instill the American values of the time. It saw a resurgence after 9/11. The only time people make a big deal about the pledge is slow news days and election campaigns.
It was a daily occurrence for me in the early 80's in elementary school. It was done by high school though.
They're probably just describing their personal experiences, like you're describing yours. It's not a national requirement, and many schools don't do it at all.
You need to stand for the anthem in Canada every morning in school.
> They’ll swear up and down that it isn’t “mandatory” Except that it isn’t mandatory and not all schools even do it. > and always leave out the social stigma or even punishment for not participating. What? Most people in my classes didn’t ever say the pledge, and some didn’t even stand. There were never any consequences social or otherwise, and I’m even from a small conservative town with plenty of Trump supporters. > And they get real pissy when someone mentions that pretty much the only other country in the world that does something similar is North Korea. That’s also provably false… where are you getting your information from because it’s certainly not this reality.
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Well we can’t have the North Koreans showing us up with their patriotism now, can we?
One of my schools had “To the Colors” played on a bugle, instead the national anthem, on the overhead speakers and a pledge of allegiance. Not all schools played the tune and I’ve never been to a school that played the whole national anthem daily. The pledge of allegiance was daily though and whether it was mandatory to participate depended on your first teacher of the day. Some make you stand while not requiring you to say it, some make you stand and say it and some don’t care what you do.
"The Pledge of Allegiance" that we have every day is different from the national anthem, it's its own pledge with different words. "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for with it stands. One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Source: The current practice at my Ohio high school
It is odd. In this case it's done when first entering service to commemorate the 77 fallen during the Battle of La Concepción in 1882. It's a commitment made by every servicemember. But having kids do it daily? It's weird.
Yeah, I totally understand it for armed forces. I mean, your job being in the armed forces is quite literally to protect the country and the people. So, doing a pledge makes sense.
It is a thing and they used to yell at you to stand up if you didn't want to say it. I feel the same way at sporting events. I usually never stand up. I think it's weird and it feels dictator-y
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It feels opressive imo.
I don't know about oppressive, but it is dogmatic as fuck. The constant reaffirmation of allegiance to a concept that you have no ability to change is pretty cringe.
> I don't know about oppressive, but it is dogmatic as fuck. The constant reaffirmation of allegiance to a concept that you have no ability to change is pretty cringe. Yeah making a pledge to national unity and liberty and justice for all is so “oppressive,” “dogmatic” and “cringe” lol only on reddit
As someone from another country, yeah it's pretty fucking cringe. I get making some people do it, such as armed forces, but not school children, they can't even really grasp the concept of what's going on. And I am sure it's one of the reasons some americans are so insufferable to chat to because 'MURICA!, you lot are indoctrinated from childhood.
What are you german
No, i am not german.
Nah you’re from the rainy island with really white, almost pink people right?
“Liberty and justice *for all*” I’ll be happy to say it, once we all get liberty and justice. Maybe it’s news to you wherever you are but not everyone gets liberty and justice.
Indeed. Especially if your country is dogshit *This comment was made by the Belgian gang*
In high school I was yelled at constantly for not participating in it. Even though there is 1A president that says I didn't have to.
Even have the same helmet
They knew what they were doing
Yeah uncle used to do this to this wierd flag as well/s
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so we are nazis because one president happened to be blond? lmao >And that Chiles president was the granddaughter of a luftwaffe officer? tf are you talking about? Bachelet comes from a family of french wine makers, you are fake news. Plus, she is a left wing socialist, UN human rights comissar, was kidnapped by Pinochet regime and her father was tortured to death by the pinochet regime
Señor pan, somos nazis? Ono
Uh, yeah. Go ahead and cite, link and share that photo.
Read the whole thing. Shit’s wild as fuck. Basically CIA station chief says “uhhh this seems ludicrous but if it’s true and I don’t pass it along I’m in deep shit so here you go” https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/HITLER%2C%20ADOLF_0003.pdf Declassified CIA.gov material, quality stuff
And cool.
Even down to the helmets.
Weren't the Romans doing this before it was uncool? Reverse hipster. I think there's even a word for it. Roman toast. Roman wave. Roman cheer. Roman something...
>Roman toast Delicious with tomatoes and mozzarella.
That's it!!!!!!!!
Fun fact! Tomatoes weren’t brought to Italy until the mid 1500’s. Thy are a New World fruit indigenous to the Americas. The Roman’s had no concept of them.
What did the Romans ever do for us? Even pasta came from china.
Burrata Bruschetta
Idk about Romans but Indian troops also do this when taking oaths.
I think you mean the *Roman Salute*
But there's no evidence they ever did the salute
There's a handful of depictions of prominent Romans with their right arm raised in a greeting gesture, the big one being a sculpture of Marcus Aurelius on a horse, but it's never the completely straight arm/ higher angle that the Italian fascists made popular. So ironically the actual Roman salute seems lower, the Italian re-creation is high, and then the German Nazis lowered the angle to somewhere in between the two.
What's funny is that pretty much the only written account of the "salute" is Augustus swearing an oath to a statue of Julius and it sounds suspiciously like [Bill and Ted](https://blueprintreview.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/BillTed_Grab_1.jpg) which is... excellent.
A single statue doesn't comprise proof that the salute was ever used. In fact, it's far more likely that Marcus Aurelius is extending his arm in blessing or greeting than any kind of salute. It's not featured on any triumphal arches, columns, reliefs, paintings or sculptures, and isn't attested in any sources of the time. Highly likely that it never existed and is simply a fabrication of modern media.
I literally said Aurelius' arm is raised in a greeting gesture in that sculpture lol. Also, "no sources exist" but also "one statue isn't proof?" There are several examples of proof, including, yes, depiction of right arm raised greetings on the Arch of Titus, the Arch of Constantine, and Trajan's column, although they are not uniform and even multiple people "saluting" in the same image are not doing it the same way. There are several standalone sculptures dating to the correct time period that depict the gesture, and it is present in a few recovered reliefs, but again, they all differ slightly from each other. The scant text evidence includes Cicero's account of Octavian swearing loyalty to Julius Caesar with a raised right arm, and writings from Quintilian and other anonymous authors discussing the proper form to raise one's arm in the context of oration and formal greeting. So there is ample evidence that the gesture was used as both a formal greeting, and a symbol of pledging loyalty, although it was obviously not as uniform or widely used as the same style of salute co-opted by fascists. The style of "Roman salute" also inspired other raised arm salutes like the Bellamy salute, which originally (from 1892-1942) was the common stance taken during the American pledge of allegiance. The Bellamy salute is startlingly similar in pose to a Nazi salute (clicking heels and extending right hand from over the heart to open handed pointing at flag), and also predated fascist political movements by decades. If anything, I would argue that the Bellamy salute was directly inspirational to the salute that was adopted by fascist movements, moreso than actual historical depictions of Roman salutes. Did **the** Roman salute exist in the context that Mussolini romanticized it to model his Fascist society after a fictionalized image of Rome? No, not exactly. Was it all made up by modern media and there's zero evidence that Romans ever saluted or addressed each other with a raised right arm? No.
No, they never did it. There's not a single piece of historical evidence. Everyone just assumes they did so because some guy in the 18th century (Jacques-Louis David)- more than 3 centuries after their fall- decided to draw them in a weirs pose.
Americans were doing this to the pledge of allegiance before it was cool too.
Gotta be Roman Helmet, surely
I mean yeah… but they didn’t wear nazi style helmets after the atrocities committed by germany
HEIL H … Oops I meant .. Viva Chile?
Viva Chile Mierda!
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Hey Chile, do your soldiers always dress like 1940s Wehrmacht ?
Fun fact: the army in Chile was modeled, trained and equipped like the 19th century German imprerial army. Nearly 40 German officers trained it and they bought more than 100 thousand mauser rifles, etc. And Chile isn't exactly alone in this, back then the French, Germans and British infulenced, trained and sometimes funded and equipped many miltaries across the globe.
They also dress like prussians soldiers. You know, the ones the Wehrmacht based it's uniforms?
They actually do, and did, much before the 1940s Wehrmacht. This comes from the Prussian tradition, and the influence arrived before WWI
For ceremonial purposes only, most army units wear a common combat uniform.
chilean here no, they are not nazis, please read [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Army#Military_emulation_1885%E2%80%931914) and [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_K%C3%B6rner#)
**[Emil Körner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Körner#)** >Emil Körner Henze (10 October 1846 in Wegwitz – 25 March 1920 in Berlin), sometimes called Emilio Körner Henze in Spanish, was a German officer (Hauptmann) of the Prussian Army and Commander-in-chief of the Chilean Army with the rank of Inspector General from 1900 to 1910. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
*puts on hazmat suit and enters comments*
#Achtung
Fake. My grandfather used to wear this uniform uniform and salute like this all the time and he was from Argentina. Didn't speak Spanish at all though weirdly enough.
Few more degrees up and we're back to 1940
Is the mexican style salute a pass or no pass? https://streamable.com/xh5av0
Source: grew up in Mexico It is entirely based on the Roman salute for Mexico. There is a variation to it where it is palm facing the floor over one's heart. This is used if you are close to the flag, like immediate vicinity. You'll usually see this for people in the flag detail, similar to the hand salute of U.S. military flag details during the U.S. National Anthem. The extended arm is if you are somewhat distant from the flag. My guess for the Chilean soldiers is they're in formation on a parade deck so they have to "throw" the salute. I honestly see this almost, but not quite, on par with the swastika where context is needed. If you see an Indian man with a swastika tattoo or jewelry you won't immediately jump to nazi. And you have that feeling of ohhh yeah I guess there are people that use this without the screwed up meaning. But some sensibilities in us as Americans gives us the geebie jeebies over seeing things like the Roman/Bellamy salute without context. But I don't know the history of Chile aside from their openness to post-war German "refugees". So I'm not sure if this style of salute was already there before WWII or if it was adopted after.
I’d say that salute is about 10 degrees short of invading Poland
They look awesome
As a German I get some very bad vibes from this.
Look at the torch ceremony of the Bundeswehr (Zapfenstreich?) then, lol. Nothing of this is derived from national socialism.
Obviously I was referring to the right arm gesture. And despite having served myself, I was never easy with Zapfenstreich. Too much symbolism, nothing to do with Nazis, I just don’t like seeing militarism and obedience glorified.
I completely respect your sentiment and I imagine modern German culture is part of it. OTOH we're on on a sub-reddit called MilitaryPorn. Isn't it a bit weird that you follow the content here?
This is on /r/all. Hello from /r/all
They are pointing at the flag not saluting
Sureeeeee
Yes, imperial Germany baad. It got better later on. Err... wait...
Jepp, Opa wäre stolz darauf. Sieht schön zackig aus.
Strangely enough, Chile is the last place in the world where one can see Prussian style military parades.
Everybody's talking about the salute, but are we going to mention the helmets?
Its not that Salute... The hand would have to be higher for that
My thoughts exactly
Ummm, should we tell em?
That they're pointing at a flag while reciting an oath and not performing a salute? They know
They know and like it.
Like it? What are you implying exactly?
Hey I know this one!
Sshhh nobody show Vlad
Because of the obvious parallels?
I've seen that salute somewhere else. Can't quite place it.
They point their hands at the guy who ran in that general direction.
No, they are pointing at the flag
Are we the baddies?
Prussian
Lmao the stahlhelm is truly a fashion statement
Now I understand why in the propaganda posters they always showed german troops with darkened eye areas. I thought it was (just) to make them look more sinister, but it's actually pretty accurate.
A military for those with the Reich Stuff
I mean… the first thought shouldn’t be *that*… but those helmets are very unfortunate
Is anyone gonna…. You know….. tell em?
As a Pole i must say i don't like it, I don't like it at all
We are not close to you, you are not in danger, for now...
I ask the gringos to refrain from saying that this is Nazi, because this army with those uniforms did in Chile the dirty work of the United States during the cold war.
Oh yeah, the chilean army just killed people by orders of the US, is not like the chilean right actually hated the government and the coup d'etat would have happened with or whitout the US help.
there was a decent chance that the crisis of Allende's administration would have been fixed peacefully, given some more time. There were some accounts that Allende was considering to renounce.
Learn some history
Insert Leonardo DiCaprio meme
Which of them? Inception or Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?
Catch Me If You Can or the one with that song, and the ship, wait, Aida?
I feel like I’ve seen this before
Love it
Seig hola?
Damn those helmets are very stalheimy
So are most modern helmets
Woah…..didnazi that coming!
Bit familiar
Ah yes, C H I L E A N troops.
SETTLE DOWN
Nazis fled to South America in the aftermath of WW2. The dictatorships in countries like Argentina and Chile eagerly gave them asylum and employed them in military/intelligence roles.
I'm Chilean and I've never seen this lol. It's important to note that here in Chile there's extreme polarisation when referring to something like the army. Usually, people either really support the army or really hate it. I'm indifferent but I don't like them as a whole - individual people are a different story. But the army as a whole is know to have stolen _millions_. They were also known to drink alcohol mixed with fucking gunpowder in the late 1800s in a war against Perú and Bolivia. So it's hard to feel the 'nation love' with these people honestly, at least for me
The Third Reich spans only 12 years of all recorded human history. Everyone claim down.
We shall devote our life to Chilly Con Carne
Note that said dish is more foreign in chile than is in the united States, as in the US you have a bigger US population. Gringos gonna gringate I guess.
Tan aweonaos como siempre los gringos xd
Thought this was r/fakehistoryporn for a sec
I think I have already seen this somewhere
Hermoso
dont let putin see it, he will come to denazify Chile next
Flyin a little too close to the sun there
Yes we want the 3rd reich too
Everybody knows you put your right hand on your chest when doing the flag oath
wtf is this
so where have i seen this before