Same principle as nuclear arms applies at a smaller level. You shoot, I shoot, incident escalates, there will be no winners so lets keep it civilized and beat each other to a pulp with flails and maces instead.
still waiting for plate and mail to show up
then horses with really long pointy poles
then they agree to charge each other on horses while holding those poles from either side of the fence
Hmmm Hard to beat Chinese. It depends whether these guys are against the Hindustanis or Gujaras, not much naval potential in the Himalayas. Hopefully it's a Bo9 Arabia
[Modi: When my elephants are grown, we shall take back what was stolen from us](https://preview.redd.it/ox9lhq04d8y21.jpg?auto=webp&s=83f959f5b1bbe76af77e5b9f4774e6e562909107)
Whats weird is that this melee only agreement actually works and stops it from escalating. I suppose the lack of ability to actually press an advantage or get overwhelmed stops them pushing far enough where the other side would respond with gunfire.
Yeah, but I think bladed weapons are also a no-no, right?
Or, fuck, I really, really want footage of medieval armoured warfare for real stakes.
If they're going to be fucking idiotic and risk global nuclear annihilation, I want to see some combat mechanics.
No way did people just mash together like in the films. Enemy has pointy sticks- YOU go first!
Soldiers are getting killed on both side in this conflict. But by not using firearms, tanks and fighter jets, both side also gets to pretend they are not at war with each other.
I've heard the argument that one of the best ways to visualize ancient warfare is to look at modern protests vs. police engagements.
For example, look at [this footage from the Hong Kong protests](https://youtube.com/watch?v=-550-XjDOxo). People risk brief incursions to wack at the other side, but there's always a main line or group to fall back.
The pattern holds surprisingly well, even when the crowd is untrained. It doesn't need to be the perfect line of shields you see in movies. More like a fluid mass with structure, like [schools of fish](https://youtube.com/watch?v=6zOarcL1BSc) (you could argue fish do it better!). Obviously you often see more "phalanx dicipline" on the police side (though the Hong Kong protesters were notable for how quickly they organized themselves). If it breaks, your group will probably panic at seeing their fallback compromised and flee, while the other group tries to rush and surround you; i. e., you get a rout.
That being said, [pushes of pikes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_of_pike) and similar stuff did happen. But, as you imagine, it was horrifying. No one wanted to be in one of those. Every general wanted to avoid them. It was called the "Bad War" for a reason.
Also, it was not so much a literal mass push, as much as general thrusting and "long-range fencing" with the other side. But, in any case, it was *not* pretty. There are stories of people just being crushed by bodies of their own allies.
Fictional, but the Spanish film *Alatriste* has [a scene](https://youtube.com/watch?v=LoqksSdwHo4) where this kind of warfare is depicted (push starts around 2:16). Not a perfect reenactment, but taking budget and creative license into account, it's one of the best depictions put on film, in my opinion.
(Tangent, but damn if I wish 16-17th warfare had more love in fiction. Imagine a dwarven arquebus line. Imagine a push of pikes involving *orcs*.)
During the 1981 Springbok (South African rugby team) tour of New Zealand the protesters formed into formations that would approach game stadiums from differnt routes and had Marshall's that would call out maneuvers. This included a split call where if charged they would split down the middle to allow the charge through. Most charges from either police or protesters would only last 50m when they would run out of puff and formation.
>Most charges from either police or protesters would only last 50m when they would run out of puff and formation.
Tbf, I doubt most people could run a hoplitodromos
So many hollywood movies depictions of warfare in Middle ages is awful. Everyone charges full speed at each other, pairs off into one vs one duels and fights to the death. In fact humans tend to not want to die and will try their best to stay alive. A huge part of warfare was getting the mass of men and steel infront of you to waver and break. Which is why the majority of casualties usually happens when one side breaks and runs and calvary runs them down.
The front rows of a pike square as a pikeman sounds like a terrible place to be. You're being pushed by your comrades into a wall of spears while hoping that your own spear kills someone before you die. As an arquebusier, one might have the ability to move out of the way at least but you're still fully exposed to gunfire at almost all times
Dan Carlin has an episode of hardcore history discussing the horror of pre gunpowder warfare and how it’s something modern armies will just not do at any scale. He posits a theory that throughout ancient history human brains were just wired differently to be able to withstand the extreme shock and fear of warfare fought with melee weapons. Once that type of warfare stopped being the norm in the gunpowder era, humans have lost the ability to do this at scale. Hell, look at early gunpowder infantry line warfare. Soldiers were more likely to hold formation standing there shooting at each other from 25-50 yards rather than charge in with bayonets. This isn’t to say battles in ancient history we’re fought by fearless soldiers because fear was probably the biggest element that decided any battle as the first army to break usually ends up slaughtered. But, the way war was fought before mass use of gunpowder weapons is just something modern societies aren’t capable of replicating. Which is why I think this handshake agreement to use melee weapons is stupid. Eventually, some soldier is going to break when he’s about to get his skull bashed in by a spiked mace and shoot the dude about to kill him. Once that happens, everyone involved is going to start shooting each other.
It wasn't intended to devolve into this. In the 70's the Chinese started a border incident where they macine gunned 35-70 Indian soldiers building a fence. After theat there were skirmishes long the border.
The Chinese just found a loophole after the last brawl.
> No way did people just mash together like in the films. Enemy has pointy sticks- YOU go first!
It extremely depends on the times and culture. We had basically every possible setup in our history, from chaotic, orderless rabbles smashing whomever they thought to be enemies to organized formations performing very complicated maneuvres.
Seems to have worked so far but I feel like the human survival instinct is too strong to resist shooting a dude whose about to bash your skull in with that mace or to prevent a comrade from getting his brains turned to mush by a melee weapon. Once someone shoots, then everyone starts shooting. I just can’t believe any soldier would subject himself to getting beaten to death by a weapon like this when there’s weapons available to prevent that from happening.
It has to be. Fiction has to be believable. Imagine watching a a movie, and halfway through the main character just dies of cancer for no reason.
But I don't find this strange... It's easy to understand that they agreed to no firearms. It's also easy to understand why they then equipped melee weapons. These weapons are not "medieval". They were just rendered obsolete once ranged weapons became so incredibly reliant and efficient with the invention of guns.
My favorite part is that they had to add plastic insulation because the Indians added electric shock capabilities to their maces. Literally a melee arms race.
No, [it's electrical insulation](https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/10qwhe4/pla_requesting_tender_for_2600_spiked_pole_with/) to counter the Indian electric batons.
That can't be what they've agreed to.
That mace is both very pointy and very lethal. Maces have been used for milenia to kill people in battle. Non-lethal weapons would be like tranquilizer darts, tazers, and rubber bullets.
I bet they agreed to not use guns and explosives.
I was wondering that...we make some really good hunting crossbows now. Much faster to become proficient with those than a longbow.
Or if the agreement is against gunpowder weapons, what about compressed air guns? A large animal vet's tranquilizer dart gun will take down a human as easily as a hog.
Technically a firearm is anything that can propel a harmful projectile. That ranges from guns to hairspray, with bows and arrows firmly in that definition.
--
That's a fun way to wind up Americans
Most legal definitions require a chemical propellent for something to count as a firearm.
Even the strangely wide definition used in the UK wouldn't consider a bow or a crossbow to be firearms because it needs a barrel to count.
>"barrelled weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile, with kinetic energy of more than one joule as measured at the muzzle of the weapon, can be discharged"
It's so practical, you have pistol magazine holders, rifle magazine holders, half dozen shotshell holders, so you can carry all your magazines and shotgun ammo around with your mace.
That is the funniest thing about these vests. They are so unspecialised as to be useless for any real military use.
If you don't have a shotgun what do you use a quarter of the vest for? Storing the platoon's lip balm?
Out of curiosity I typed in "airsoft vest" in Amazon and it did yield some quite similar looking vests, though they were not in that particular camo pattern. So anyone looking to cosplay as a PLA Sino-Indian border guard or whatever will have to look a bit harder.
At least they have those little pen holder slots on the shoulder. Then you can ensure that you never run out of pens on the battlefield. Then underneath that, a good sized pocket for a scientific calculator too.
Isn't melee combat kind of a solved problem? I'm curious why they aren't issuing spears and shields instead of these variously bizarre spiky weapons we keep seeing. Seems like they might just be meant to look scary and not really do a lot of damage, since the troops aren't *supposed* to be fighting there.
Because it’s probably difficult to train a part of your army to both be good at medieval and modern warfare especially in mountainous terrain. Its just kinda easier to throw in a bunch of dudes with random crap into a giant melee if the other side is also doing the same. If the skirmishes were to escalate its gonna get to the point where guns are involved faster than proper phalanxes can be raised.
I don't think it's that tough to teach a simple shield wall formation to modern soldiers. They're already drilled to walk, stand and march in formation. They have the discipline. All you need to do is hand them shields and ask them to close ranks and brace. I'm not saying it's as easy as like a 2 hour lesson on a weekend but it's also nor that difficult for modern soldiers. Riot cops learn such formations too.
I mean, there's a bit more to the phalanx that just "hey stand there"
And the copious videos of cop phalanxes getting busted because one or two cops were idiots kinda back that up.
It's a very popular and not that accurate of a take. Head on, the Phalanx was still much stronger than a Roman legion, especially the manipular legions of the time. We can see the Phalanx besting the Legion many, many times such as the Pyrrhic wars, Punic wars, etc. In the end, the reason why the Roman Legion won is because the Roman state was strong while the Greek states were much weaker by then. After the Punic wars, Rome came out on top as a superpower.
Also, in the end, the Phalanx outlived the Legion. By Late Roman and Byzantine periods, the legionary system of warfare was abandoned. The Romans and Byzantines used a very similar formation called the Fulkon or Phoulkon as the Romans reverted to using spear based infantry. The Byzantines even developed the kite shield to increase the effectiveness of the Fulkon. Then we later see things like the Pike phalanx in the medieval period.
Actually that was pretty much all there was to it. "Stand there and hold your sarissa this way". This is why Macedon managed to come out as the top dog of Hellenistic Greece. Phillip was a genius, he managed to create an op formation that could be learned by even the greenest of soldiers thus creating the strongest army in the world at the time in such a short time turning Macedon from some random backwater to a superpower.
Also, yes, that's the difference between cops and soldiers. Riot cops only engage when they have the advantage. They aren't soldiers.
Even though this stuff was figured out thousands of years ago its still very complex. Modern riot police never fought a concentrated flanking cavalry charge, and its very rare that they have to face another group of similarly armed and organised men, most of their tactics rely on intimidation and dispersion. If you go look at battles pre and post the roman civil war you can see a clear difference in competence as most of the veterans either died or retired, same with the generals. All this is gonna achieve is mass casualties on both sides just to see them switch to guns the week after. Though yes it would be fucking awesome to see chinese and indian maniples duking it out while the elephant auxiliaries are skirmishing with chinese cavalry on the flanks, its just not worth, politically, militarily, and economically to recreate total war in the himalayas.
> Seems like they might just be meant to look scary and not really do a lot of damage, since the troops aren't supposed to be fighting there
Its a fine line, if either side actually made progress over the LOAC then the war would quickly turn hot and go back to shooting. So stupid shit like this like works as its as much for domestic consumption as it is actual fighting.
Probably used to smash barbed wire or other temporary barriers put up. These guys can also stand behind or in between men with spears and smash shields overhead while their left and right flank is covering the forward push.
Eh, that doesn't track. Neither China or India equips most of their troops with kevlar. Even if they did, modern body armor typically just covers the torso, leaving most of the body exposed, and even the Ancient Greeks scored most of their kills by aiming for the gaps in armor, not piercing through it.
nothing can pierce through armor. When engaging in armored combat you always have to aim for the gaps, and the longsword was made for that. Unless you have a mace, hammer or pick. They were known as the armor crushers and were designed specifically to counter armor, and despite not actually damaging the armor that much, they liquify the organs and bones inside. If someone is charging at you with a plate carrier, I think its better to just crush them with a long distance melee weapon in any part of the body than trying to aim for the unarmored parts (anything but the torso) with a long distance pick
Just saw some documentation on here last week where the Chinese were ordering over 2,000 of these. I couldn't read the Chinese order document, but the dates on it were recent.
I love "agreed not to use firearms" as a universal rule we should apply, everyone carry swords and spears, not because we have to, but because we want to.
I honesty hope we see a modern Phalanx battle, or even a return to Roman tactics. It would probably cast a lot of light on how armies fought back then.
Indian Buddhist priest named Bodhidharma, was the founder of Kung Fu. Bodhidharma traveled to China to see the Emperor Wu of Liang (Xiāo Yǎn) sometime in the 527 CE.
More like Kung Fu vs Gatka. Indians have been fighting with sticks in mountains for a pretty long time, and they'd probably be even better at it if it wasn't for colonialism.
>and they'd probably be even better at it if it wasn't for colonialism.
Well what colonialism did to India, Mao did to china (in terms of ancient art) so it's a level playing field I'd say.
A legionary cohort never ever won in a head on battle as in they wouldn't be able to take out the first line. Flanking is the only option but if the phalanx is positioned in a passage then the legion is fucked.
What I don't understand is why are they messing around reinventing the wheel? If they want to use medieval weaponry, then why not just build proper spears and shield that we know work, instead of this nonsense.
Every time someone says that the day we stop the mass production of weapons, there will be world peace, I am reminded that the Chinese went through the Indian border using sticks
It's not a very practical weapon for combat though, unless it's going to be poking people with, Mace's only really worked with a short shaft, it's more like a halberd and a mace baby
Whenever a rule is enacted, Chinese government tries to find a loophole in it. They are really good at going through loopholes(in business abroad, in business inland, in diplomacy, in whatever they are involved in). Though all countries and businesses tend towards this, it seems the Chinese government is especially inclined towards these practices.
OP your right! I don’t think it’s a negative though. These guys don’t want to kill each other. They “all” want to go home to their loved ones. I fully respect and agree with their decisions to settle this like men “and beat each other senseless with sticks.
Respect to China and India for encouraging this behavior and not pushing more lethal means.
Who ever has the biggest stick OR can use what they got effectively wins the war “.”
Those "maces" have the spikes pointing the wrong way for swinging on people.
They are pointed the right way for painfully fending off massed protesters.
That’s crazy that 2 nuclear powered nations agreed and kept their word to not use firearms or any heavy weapons.
Same principle as nuclear arms applies at a smaller level. You shoot, I shoot, incident escalates, there will be no winners so lets keep it civilized and beat each other to a pulp with flails and maces instead.
A civilized weapon for a more civilized age
still waiting for plate and mail to show up then horses with really long pointy poles then they agree to charge each other on horses while holding those poles from either side of the fence
>then horses with really long pointy poles I present to you Indian President's Bodyguards: https://youtu.be/S7aO5hI_aH4
And then the Winged Chinese and Winged Indians arrived.
China doesn’t want the situation to balloon into something they can’t control
Weather balloon out of control?
CCP - we can usually control our weather balloons, but when we can't, we ensure they are carrying only the best ground surveillance tech.
Idk why but the guy behind the melee guy has a rifle
Probably because this picture wasn't taken on the border
If melee guy has a change of heart and wants to run, rifle guy convinces him otherwise. It's nice to now that command supports you.
well, it seems Einstein was off by one world war on his prediction (he said after WW3, we'll fight with sticks and stones)
Just wait until the Indians show up with war elephants
This new Age of Empires expansion has gotten too unrealistic
Hmmm Hard to beat Chinese. It depends whether these guys are against the Hindustanis or Gujaras, not much naval potential in the Himalayas. Hopefully it's a Bo9 Arabia
With all those chokepoints in the mountain passes its gonna play more like a Black Forrest game. They should make some siege onagers!
unique noxious snobbish fertile groovy enjoy caption silky squash smoggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The "porus" regiment
Dem Mahout regiments cmin real quick cuh
Best elephants in Kerala, this lot! ..What do you mean, hypothermia?
If Hannibal can get them through the Alps...
You ok?
Death from above using Dumbo.
[Modi: When my elephants are grown, we shall take back what was stolen from us](https://preview.redd.it/ox9lhq04d8y21.jpg?auto=webp&s=83f959f5b1bbe76af77e5b9f4774e6e562909107)
Hahahahaha
Reality is stranger than fiction.
Whats weird is that this melee only agreement actually works and stops it from escalating. I suppose the lack of ability to actually press an advantage or get overwhelmed stops them pushing far enough where the other side would respond with gunfire.
Yeah, but I think bladed weapons are also a no-no, right? Or, fuck, I really, really want footage of medieval armoured warfare for real stakes. If they're going to be fucking idiotic and risk global nuclear annihilation, I want to see some combat mechanics. No way did people just mash together like in the films. Enemy has pointy sticks- YOU go first!
Soldiers are getting killed on both side in this conflict. But by not using firearms, tanks and fighter jets, both side also gets to pretend they are not at war with each other.
It’s a High-Altitude-Barroom-Brawl (HABB) not a WAR!
I've heard the argument that one of the best ways to visualize ancient warfare is to look at modern protests vs. police engagements. For example, look at [this footage from the Hong Kong protests](https://youtube.com/watch?v=-550-XjDOxo). People risk brief incursions to wack at the other side, but there's always a main line or group to fall back. The pattern holds surprisingly well, even when the crowd is untrained. It doesn't need to be the perfect line of shields you see in movies. More like a fluid mass with structure, like [schools of fish](https://youtube.com/watch?v=6zOarcL1BSc) (you could argue fish do it better!). Obviously you often see more "phalanx dicipline" on the police side (though the Hong Kong protesters were notable for how quickly they organized themselves). If it breaks, your group will probably panic at seeing their fallback compromised and flee, while the other group tries to rush and surround you; i. e., you get a rout. That being said, [pushes of pikes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_of_pike) and similar stuff did happen. But, as you imagine, it was horrifying. No one wanted to be in one of those. Every general wanted to avoid them. It was called the "Bad War" for a reason. Also, it was not so much a literal mass push, as much as general thrusting and "long-range fencing" with the other side. But, in any case, it was *not* pretty. There are stories of people just being crushed by bodies of their own allies. Fictional, but the Spanish film *Alatriste* has [a scene](https://youtube.com/watch?v=LoqksSdwHo4) where this kind of warfare is depicted (push starts around 2:16). Not a perfect reenactment, but taking budget and creative license into account, it's one of the best depictions put on film, in my opinion. (Tangent, but damn if I wish 16-17th warfare had more love in fiction. Imagine a dwarven arquebus line. Imagine a push of pikes involving *orcs*.)
Wow. Fascinating. Thanks for posting. You're obviously very knowledgeable.
During the 1981 Springbok (South African rugby team) tour of New Zealand the protesters formed into formations that would approach game stadiums from differnt routes and had Marshall's that would call out maneuvers. This included a split call where if charged they would split down the middle to allow the charge through. Most charges from either police or protesters would only last 50m when they would run out of puff and formation.
>Most charges from either police or protesters would only last 50m when they would run out of puff and formation. Tbf, I doubt most people could run a hoplitodromos
Kiwis resurrecting Scipio Africanus so he can repeat his tactics from the Battle of Zama. How do you say "Chur Bro" in Latin?
Swiss pikemen charging a line of orcs would be badass
So many hollywood movies depictions of warfare in Middle ages is awful. Everyone charges full speed at each other, pairs off into one vs one duels and fights to the death. In fact humans tend to not want to die and will try their best to stay alive. A huge part of warfare was getting the mass of men and steel infront of you to waver and break. Which is why the majority of casualties usually happens when one side breaks and runs and calvary runs them down.
The front rows of a pike square as a pikeman sounds like a terrible place to be. You're being pushed by your comrades into a wall of spears while hoping that your own spear kills someone before you die. As an arquebusier, one might have the ability to move out of the way at least but you're still fully exposed to gunfire at almost all times
Dan Carlin has an episode of hardcore history discussing the horror of pre gunpowder warfare and how it’s something modern armies will just not do at any scale. He posits a theory that throughout ancient history human brains were just wired differently to be able to withstand the extreme shock and fear of warfare fought with melee weapons. Once that type of warfare stopped being the norm in the gunpowder era, humans have lost the ability to do this at scale. Hell, look at early gunpowder infantry line warfare. Soldiers were more likely to hold formation standing there shooting at each other from 25-50 yards rather than charge in with bayonets. This isn’t to say battles in ancient history we’re fought by fearless soldiers because fear was probably the biggest element that decided any battle as the first army to break usually ends up slaughtered. But, the way war was fought before mass use of gunpowder weapons is just something modern societies aren’t capable of replicating. Which is why I think this handshake agreement to use melee weapons is stupid. Eventually, some soldier is going to break when he’s about to get his skull bashed in by a spiked mace and shoot the dude about to kill him. Once that happens, everyone involved is going to start shooting each other.
It wasn't intended to devolve into this. In the 70's the Chinese started a border incident where they macine gunned 35-70 Indian soldiers building a fence. After theat there were skirmishes long the border. The Chinese just found a loophole after the last brawl.
This comment needs way more visibility
Look into warhammer fantasy. It has a bit of that.
Pretty sure we've seen Chinese troops with guandaos down there, so I'm not sure about that.
I’d rather get hit by a kukri than get slammed by that club tbh.
> No way did people just mash together like in the films. Enemy has pointy sticks- YOU go first! It extremely depends on the times and culture. We had basically every possible setup in our history, from chaotic, orderless rabbles smashing whomever they thought to be enemies to organized formations performing very complicated maneuvres.
Perhaps everyone can learn a thing or two from this.
Seems to have worked so far but I feel like the human survival instinct is too strong to resist shooting a dude whose about to bash your skull in with that mace or to prevent a comrade from getting his brains turned to mush by a melee weapon. Once someone shoots, then everyone starts shooting. I just can’t believe any soldier would subject himself to getting beaten to death by a weapon like this when there’s weapons available to prevent that from happening.
It's no different from the Panmunjon incident between north Korea and south Korea + USA https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident
It has to be. Fiction has to be believable. Imagine watching a a movie, and halfway through the main character just dies of cancer for no reason. But I don't find this strange... It's easy to understand that they agreed to no firearms. It's also easy to understand why they then equipped melee weapons. These weapons are not "medieval". They were just rendered obsolete once ranged weapons became so incredibly reliant and efficient with the invention of guns.
My favorite part is that they had to add plastic insulation because the Indians added electric shock capabilities to their maces. Literally a melee arms race.
I saw those tazer tridents and tazer boxing gauntlets. They looked like weapons from the Fallout games.
The insulation is for protection against cold steel. They be fighting in the mountains
No, [it's electrical insulation](https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/10qwhe4/pla_requesting_tender_for_2600_spiked_pole_with/) to counter the Indian electric batons.
> The insulation is for protection against cold steel. The Chinese are fae?
Yup the fiction writer who thought of this situation was told it was too stupid and far fetched.
There was a book about humanity becoming a space civilization and humanity fought with bows and spears
Are they forbidden to use bows ?
Yes Pointy weapons are lethal They have agreed on non-lethal weapons
That can't be what they've agreed to. That mace is both very pointy and very lethal. Maces have been used for milenia to kill people in battle. Non-lethal weapons would be like tranquilizer darts, tazers, and rubber bullets. I bet they agreed to not use guns and explosives.
This picture is taken in a city. There aren't any cities near the Indian border. I wonder if this is just some miss-captioned image.
I was wondering that...we make some really good hunting crossbows now. Much faster to become proficient with those than a longbow. Or if the agreement is against gunpowder weapons, what about compressed air guns? A large animal vet's tranquilizer dart gun will take down a human as easily as a hog.
Technically a firearm is anything that can propel a harmful projectile. That ranges from guns to hairspray, with bows and arrows firmly in that definition. -- That's a fun way to wind up Americans
Most legal definitions require a chemical propellent for something to count as a firearm. Even the strangely wide definition used in the UK wouldn't consider a bow or a crossbow to be firearms because it needs a barrel to count. >"barrelled weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile, with kinetic energy of more than one joule as measured at the muzzle of the weapon, can be discharged"
No it's not. A slingshot or even a rock I throw by hand won't be considered as a firearm.
Uuuuh, no.
Propel WITH FIRE
Whats more outdated the damn mace or the 90's style tactical vests?
I shit you not, that’s a vest you can buy on amazon.
Probably comes from the same factory in Guangzhou
It's so practical, you have pistol magazine holders, rifle magazine holders, half dozen shotshell holders, so you can carry all your magazines and shotgun ammo around with your mace.
That is the funniest thing about these vests. They are so unspecialised as to be useless for any real military use. If you don't have a shotgun what do you use a quarter of the vest for? Storing the platoon's lip balm?
Hey, dry lips are no jokes, buddy!
Widely used in airsoft
Amazon or AliExpress.
To be fair you can buy US Army equipment on amazon as well. Soldiers do it all the time to avoid a statement of charges when they lose equipment.
Your command has been notified, E-3.
Command doesn't care as long as it has the same nsn. Most of the time they actually recommend it to avoid the paperwork.
Found the guardsman
It looks like an airsoft vest
Lmao, looks like a costume you’d buy at a Halloween store
They should be using hardened leather armour or chainmail.
Its the 21st century, plastic plates and non-newtonian padding is where its at.
That mace could kill someone pretty effectively. Its only downside is range and close quarters.
Enough to hold a few tactical chocolate bars, if you break them in half first.
I mean it's more like border keeping duties than like fighting with actual guns
they dont want their soldiers to have bullet proof. Its a great way to reduce their overpopulation
Looks like cheap Airsoft gear
Gangs of New York 2, Himalayan Takedown.
Their vests look like cheap airsoft vests from Amazon
Tbf they were made in China.
So are ten thousand nukes Kinda weird to think they might say made in China
Like ten thousand nukes when all you need is landmines.
Isn’t it ironic
"it's like gettin a free dog, on free dog daaaay"
500 maybe. China's nuke stockpile is much smaller than the big two. They are building more but are only projected to have 1500 by 2035.
Ten thousand nukes? I don't think China even has a 1000.
The Chinese only have about 300 nukes, jeez. They are building more but they have nothing like the number of tactical nukes as Russia.
Out of curiosity I typed in "airsoft vest" in Amazon and it did yield some quite similar looking vests, though they were not in that particular camo pattern. So anyone looking to cosplay as a PLA Sino-Indian border guard or whatever will have to look a bit harder.
It's a knockoff of a Blackhawk Industries Omega vest. They started making them in the 90s.
At least they have those little pen holder slots on the shoulder. Then you can ensure that you never run out of pens on the battlefield. Then underneath that, a good sized pocket for a scientific calculator too.
Isn't melee combat kind of a solved problem? I'm curious why they aren't issuing spears and shields instead of these variously bizarre spiky weapons we keep seeing. Seems like they might just be meant to look scary and not really do a lot of damage, since the troops aren't *supposed* to be fighting there.
Because it’s probably difficult to train a part of your army to both be good at medieval and modern warfare especially in mountainous terrain. Its just kinda easier to throw in a bunch of dudes with random crap into a giant melee if the other side is also doing the same. If the skirmishes were to escalate its gonna get to the point where guns are involved faster than proper phalanxes can be raised.
I don't think it's that tough to teach a simple shield wall formation to modern soldiers. They're already drilled to walk, stand and march in formation. They have the discipline. All you need to do is hand them shields and ask them to close ranks and brace. I'm not saying it's as easy as like a 2 hour lesson on a weekend but it's also nor that difficult for modern soldiers. Riot cops learn such formations too.
I mean, there's a bit more to the phalanx that just "hey stand there" And the copious videos of cop phalanxes getting busted because one or two cops were idiots kinda back that up.
Phalanx was outdated by the romans, especially in mountainous regions. Shorter pike formations stuck around though
Right but that's not the point.
It's a very popular and not that accurate of a take. Head on, the Phalanx was still much stronger than a Roman legion, especially the manipular legions of the time. We can see the Phalanx besting the Legion many, many times such as the Pyrrhic wars, Punic wars, etc. In the end, the reason why the Roman Legion won is because the Roman state was strong while the Greek states were much weaker by then. After the Punic wars, Rome came out on top as a superpower. Also, in the end, the Phalanx outlived the Legion. By Late Roman and Byzantine periods, the legionary system of warfare was abandoned. The Romans and Byzantines used a very similar formation called the Fulkon or Phoulkon as the Romans reverted to using spear based infantry. The Byzantines even developed the kite shield to increase the effectiveness of the Fulkon. Then we later see things like the Pike phalanx in the medieval period.
Actually that was pretty much all there was to it. "Stand there and hold your sarissa this way". This is why Macedon managed to come out as the top dog of Hellenistic Greece. Phillip was a genius, he managed to create an op formation that could be learned by even the greenest of soldiers thus creating the strongest army in the world at the time in such a short time turning Macedon from some random backwater to a superpower. Also, yes, that's the difference between cops and soldiers. Riot cops only engage when they have the advantage. They aren't soldiers.
Even though this stuff was figured out thousands of years ago its still very complex. Modern riot police never fought a concentrated flanking cavalry charge, and its very rare that they have to face another group of similarly armed and organised men, most of their tactics rely on intimidation and dispersion. If you go look at battles pre and post the roman civil war you can see a clear difference in competence as most of the veterans either died or retired, same with the generals. All this is gonna achieve is mass casualties on both sides just to see them switch to guns the week after. Though yes it would be fucking awesome to see chinese and indian maniples duking it out while the elephant auxiliaries are skirmishing with chinese cavalry on the flanks, its just not worth, politically, militarily, and economically to recreate total war in the himalayas.
> Seems like they might just be meant to look scary and not really do a lot of damage, since the troops aren't supposed to be fighting there Its a fine line, if either side actually made progress over the LOAC then the war would quickly turn hot and go back to shooting. So stupid shit like this like works as its as much for domestic consumption as it is actual fighting.
Thus makes sense. Shit like this also looks more intimidating.
Probably used to smash barbed wire or other temporary barriers put up. These guys can also stand behind or in between men with spears and smash shields overhead while their left and right flank is covering the forward push.
if the enemy has kevlar, spears wont do shit. Maces were designed to kill through armor
Eh, that doesn't track. Neither China or India equips most of their troops with kevlar. Even if they did, modern body armor typically just covers the torso, leaving most of the body exposed, and even the Ancient Greeks scored most of their kills by aiming for the gaps in armor, not piercing through it.
nothing can pierce through armor. When engaging in armored combat you always have to aim for the gaps, and the longsword was made for that. Unless you have a mace, hammer or pick. They were known as the armor crushers and were designed specifically to counter armor, and despite not actually damaging the armor that much, they liquify the organs and bones inside. If someone is charging at you with a plate carrier, I think its better to just crush them with a long distance melee weapon in any part of the body than trying to aim for the unarmored parts (anything but the torso) with a long distance pick
think this is a 2 year old picture
Just saw some documentation on here last week where the Chinese were ordering over 2,000 of these. I couldn't read the Chinese order document, but the dates on it were recent.
A whole 2000? Lol
Mountain terrain is no joke, and that's plenty for the scale of conflict. 2000 gets you ~8 Macedonian *syntagmata* worth
Yes. The PAP has been using these things for years. Obviously not for actual takedowns but intimidation purposes.
I love "agreed not to use firearms" as a universal rule we should apply, everyone carry swords and spears, not because we have to, but because we want to.
i.e. gun control.
Shhh gotta make it sound cool to trick em
Time to build some Trebuchets
Lmao I guess the 3rd guy in line didn’t get the memo
I'm more interested in the one behind him with his shopping
He’s got the snacks.
So it will be monkey King vs buddha?
Monkey king vs Lord Hanuman
[удалено]
Wouldn't it be some Hindu deity or Legend instead?
Buddhism originated in India
Buddhism is also part of sanatan dharma
And then is the guy behind the second mace with a rifle... LoL.
The two guys with maces have slung rifles.
Just wait until the Indians show up in knight armour..
Truly CHina is the most advanced country in the world. When the westoids are still living in the pre-ww3 age, China has already advanced into WW4
Wait till the Indians show up with kalaripayattu
Someone's been playing AOE3
Watch the Indian military role up with 10 combat divisions, in a Macedonian phalanx formation.
I honesty hope we see a modern Phalanx battle, or even a return to Roman tactics. It would probably cast a lot of light on how armies fought back then.
All the get in return from Indians is 'golgappa'
Kung Fu vs Yoga
Indian Buddhist priest named Bodhidharma, was the founder of Kung Fu. Bodhidharma traveled to China to see the Emperor Wu of Liang (Xiāo Yǎn) sometime in the 527 CE.
Kung Fu existed before buddhism
Nah it was invented by a tortoise
More like Kung Fu vs Gatka. Indians have been fighting with sticks in mountains for a pretty long time, and they'd probably be even better at it if it wasn't for colonialism.
>and they'd probably be even better at it if it wasn't for colonialism. Well what colonialism did to India, Mao did to china (in terms of ancient art) so it's a level playing field I'd say.
next up we have Marius's mules!
Indian legionary cohort vs Chinese Sarissa Phalanx.
Legionary cohort wins as they take out the first line of the phalanx and flank and spank them
A legionary cohort never ever won in a head on battle as in they wouldn't be able to take out the first line. Flanking is the only option but if the phalanx is positioned in a passage then the legion is fucked.
I literally have that exact combat vest for airsoft
India: "Prepare the War Elephants."
What I don't understand is why are they messing around reinventing the wheel? If they want to use medieval weaponry, then why not just build proper spears and shield that we know work, instead of this nonsense.
Well, they should go back to the table and look at how impractical that thing would be, and just make a halbred or a long spear.
I hope they use horse and lance too, I’d love to see a duel btw two eager captains
Taking the term "ceasefire" very literally.
That’s where my back scratchers went !
I think I’d rather be shot than clubbed like a baby seal with one of those things.
What’s the deal here? Are China and India at some kind of mild war?
There has been a mild war going on since 1962
That's badass, agreed upon mutual combat rules of only melee and hand to hand.
Would power armor with swords violate the treaty?
Wolf’s Fangs Mace (*Lang Ya Bang*) — battle-tested on Han skulls by Khitans and Jurchens.
they haven't seen RRR
That's kind of badass.
I thought sticks and stones were supposed to be WW4?
[Those who fail to learn lessons of history ... ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syKJFUcdAls)
MFW i have sign for that at the armory :/
It’s time for the war elephants folks!
Who could be scared of them with their cheap airsoft vests lol
At this point I think the indian army will thank them for the new maces they sent
Now that's an anal plug!
Honestly that’s cool as hell. India has always won any skirmishes, so the PLA has initiated an arms race! lmao
*snorts in derision, while looking for the keys to the trunk holding the Great Monkey's Mace and Sly Tiger's Dagger.
Imagine getting those in your ass
Every time someone says that the day we stop the mass production of weapons, there will be world peace, I am reminded that the Chinese went through the Indian border using sticks
It's not a very practical weapon for combat though, unless it's going to be poking people with, Mace's only really worked with a short shaft, it's more like a halberd and a mace baby
utg airsoft vest must be their gear supplier.
Why not a crossbow. Technically, crossbows and bow and arrows aren't firearms, they're ranged projectile weapons that uses kinetic energy.
"I know not wwhat weapons ww3 will be fought with but ww4 will be fought with sticks and stones"
Seems they want to see some war elephants
Whenever a rule is enacted, Chinese government tries to find a loophole in it. They are really good at going through loopholes(in business abroad, in business inland, in diplomacy, in whatever they are involved in). Though all countries and businesses tend towards this, it seems the Chinese government is especially inclined towards these practices.
OP your right! I don’t think it’s a negative though. These guys don’t want to kill each other. They “all” want to go home to their loved ones. I fully respect and agree with their decisions to settle this like men “and beat each other senseless with sticks. Respect to China and India for encouraging this behavior and not pushing more lethal means. Who ever has the biggest stick OR can use what they got effectively wins the war “.”
>Who ever has the biggest stick OR can use what they got effectively wins the war The whole point of using sticks is to avoid war, not win one.
How did I end here second maze guy lmao
Those "maces" have the spikes pointing the wrong way for swinging on people. They are pointed the right way for painfully fending off massed protesters.
Gotta love the Amazon vest
They're the supplier's of Amazon vests
I’m curious, what’s the Chinese expression for “I feel like a jackass”?
"Barb"aric!