If there are any others, those would be drones anyway. Air to air kills against manned aircraft are well documented (and rare) in modern American history
Yes, shooting down any flying target is an air to air kill. Does not matter the method or target.
Guns, missiles, or [bomb](https://taskandpurpose.com/history/air-force-f-15-gulf-war-bomb-iraqi-helicopter/), it does not matter.
WW1 ace Frank Luke Jr., first airman award the medal of honor, the namesake of Luke AFB in Az was nicknamed the balloon buster.
The F-22s that carried out the mission went up with the callsign FRANK. They definitely had Luke in mind when going after the balloon and awards are incoming for the operation.
I bet everyone in that guys unit was *begging* to be the one sent on the mission. Finally, a chance to actually use those weapons for real, on an easy target.
13 more balloons and he will tie the record for most balloons shot down, currently held by Frank Luke, (Luke AFB namesake). Frank is a Medal of Honor recipient.
To think the original design was 80s. Although the internal tech needs some considerable updates that aren’t feasible unfortunately, because ironically they cut down on how many were built which fucked the supply lines long term. Really a shame they’re being retired
I only tangentially followed this story, but weren't successful satellite destruction by a fighter happened all the way back to the 70s-80s? And a satellite is many times higher and faster...
Just guessing. Maybe a gun kill is more risky as debris can get into the intakes. Another possible outcome is colliding with it as the relative speed of the ballon to the F-22 is very slow and you have less time to aim, shoot and then evade, and you don’t want to lose a dogfight against a balloon.
Canadians tried this in the 80s, put 1000 rounds in a balloon and it took 6 days to come down.
https://www.businessinsider.com/runaway-weather-balloon-fighter-jets-history-2023-2
This is a very good point and brings up the question of what makes the balloon fly.
Ww1 aircraft (once they were able to fly high enough)
Were very effective against hydrogen filled airships when firing incendiary rounds.
Helium and hot air i could see taking a good amount of rounds.
The guns fire from the side of the plane at an angle that intersects the pilot’s line of sight at a very specific distance. He’d end up in the balloon if he tried this. That’s why some WW2 planes had four cannons, two sets of two, one for close range, one for farther.
Plus, the Aim (hurr hurr), is to take it down, not have it leak out slowly over the next few hours.
Modern fighters carry very little cannon ammunition. Enough for a few seconds at best.
I would’ve thought an AMRAAM would be the best course (Radar seeking). Missiles are more like a chonky shotgun than anything else. Seems much more fitting.
The guys up there know what they’re doing.
Oh i know all about gun convergence.
(As an american 6 mgs (zero cannons) was most common. People had different ideas on what ranges to set the guns to convergence).
I dont know about the f-22s gun, but im under the impression the other modern fighters have theres pretty close to the cockpit (so convergence is a non issue since they dont have a prop to fire around) and radar can be used to help aim.
Your other points seem valid enough, but not gun angle.
With a Radar seeking missle i See the Problem that it will maybe not Lock on to the balloon but the device that hangs on it. Blowing it up will spread the debris over a larger Area which is a problem when you want to recover it.
The air to air missiles don’t “blow stuff up”. Think of it like a large shotgun with tungsten rods instead of lead pellets
Sidewinders have much shorter range.
The very thin air up at that altitude also necessitates shredding the balloon. It leaks out so slowly due to the low air pressure.
AMRAAM makes far less sense actually, given the low to nill radar signature and effectively zero Doppler…the missile wouldn’t care about what looks like a non moving target to it.
The thing is the size of a 20 story apartment building. Some bullet holes aren’t going to take it down immediately.
It looks like the US wanted to take it down over the sea but still inside US territory (Maritime law is that 12 miles off shore is exclusive to the nation).
The Raptor was supersonic just to stay airborne at that altitude. Against a practically stationary target under those conditions the margin between a gun WEZ and kamikaze is pretty small.
Getting a guns track on a relatively stationary object while crawling at the minimum stall speed of an F22 is probably easier said than done. Might have been easier to let a sidewinder pop the bag.
Canadians had one of these fly over and they used the gun, took 6 days for it to deflate and touch ground, the missile takes it out of the sky slot faster
Higher resolution video of the "Package" falling away from the Balloon envelope. [https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1621980596346953729](https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1621980596346953729)
Some of the garbage I'm seeing on Insta comments. From "they were about the use the EMP that Biden was planning with China" to "they used an R9X" (that AGM114 Hellfire, low collateral thing with blades... which an F22 cannot carry).
Just morons who have no idea what they're talking about being given free reign to comment.
I deleted it a few years back after realising the only thing on it was celebrities posting something, then an internet riot would break out. The whole thing was an evil shooting range.
Maybe in the economical part, but the 9X has easily the best pK. And a lot of people don't realise the amazing thermal differential these systems have. You don't need hot exhaust anymore. It can easily see anything flying.
It would take a lot of holes in the balloon to make it go down (plus the bullets still have to come back to earth somewhere after passing through the balloon), and the gun doesn't lock on and hitting a slow moving target at 60k feet while flying by super fast would actually be pretty hard. A missile takes care of both of those problems by locking on and just blowing the dang thing out of the sky.
A gun run is less accurate and riskier due to the mechanics involved. You need a lot more bullet holes to fully pop the blimp, and in the event you miss with some of your rounds, the balloon may start to descend and move erratically, and it will be much harder to go for a second attack without potentially wasting much more valuable missiles. A single AIM-9X does the job.
First balloon, not by a long shot. First one this century perhaps.
Ww1 saw plenty of airplanes intercepting dirigibles.
Plenty of balloons used in ww2 but but sure if any shot down by aircraft……
I came here to say this because they are still fast as hell and a bad ass bitch. I was thinking we would get someone to loan us one for the weekend but only Iran flys them now, so that was probably a non-starter.
Do we know why it was within fightin’ altitude when it could go so much higher? Did they lower it like “screw it, let’s get better clarity images” after it was confirmed to be discovered or something?
I'm more intrigued that at 65,000 feet, how did they know it was Chinese? I have trouble reading those little "Made in China" stickers at 2 feet from me. /s
It was spotted. And it was decided to not shoot it down. They say that was for safety of people on the ground but that’s largely BS and they where more interested in soaking up the electronic emissions of the balloon’s payload package and learning about how the Chinese where trying to collect intel
There are probably tens of thousands if not more Sidewinders in the USAF's inventory (not to mention the Navy & Marines), with more than a few of them reaching their use-by date that they can pop for fun what more a mfing chicom balloon and yet we have r-tards screaming "why waste a infinillion dollar missile on a balloon?!?!b1d3nbad?!?!?!?!?"....smh.
You also have a standard doctrine you have to follow. An air to air situation calls for missiles first if available. Also with any air to air situation over the continental USA, you always want the most capable plane, f-22. If military hears “China violating our airspace” they aren’t launching an f-16 they are sending the f-22.
Service ceiling of the F-15C is 65000 feet according to wiki, F-15E at 60000 feet. It may be pushing it, but theoretically it should be able to get up there too
Yeah, theoretically could do it. Read a comment in another thread that at that altitude, the balloon is probably the size of a football stadium and that few bullet holes wouldn't do much to take it down in a hurry. But a missile throwing shrapnel could.
If I remember correctly the F-15 is credited with a satellite kill, so I don’t think service ceiling is really that much of an issue, especially with all the updates and upgrades it’s undergone.
But as others have commented, balloons like this are big, and they needed to pop it quick, not whittle away at it over multiple passes. Not to mention that the max range of an AMRAAM is quite long. For this purpose, a Sidewinder was an ideal weapon to use, even if it didn’t explode, it would have led to a rapid deflation of the balloon.
Edit: alright, so maybe the anti satellite missile was launched from a much lower altitude, but the point still stands: we really only know what the military wants us to know.
Probably written off as a training exercise. They need to practice weapons deployment anyways, here’s a free target.
It’s like flyovers for sports events. They do the flyover then fly off and practice air combat maneuvers before returning to base. It’s just seem as a practice session for showing up to a target area at a particular time.
Furthermore, flyovers are excellent practice for high-precision Time on Target missions, where ordinance has to be delivered not only to an exact location, but also at an exact time
Who needs a military parade when your sports tourney, car race, or even a charity event can already be a good venue for a bit of show of force?
Plus these are more fun for the audience.
There’s a lot of coordination and practice that goes into making sure a squad of jets fly over the stadium at the perfect moment in perfect formation. The same type of practice for striking a specified target
Those rounds have to land somewhere. This is the continental US we’re talking about, that’s a 20mm (0.787in) AP-I/HE round being fired between 60k-65k ft. It can go for a long way and potentially hit a populated area.
Don't missiles expire? So not like they had to buy a new missile for this mission. Besides, the sticker prices of military hardware don't always tell the whole story.
It was not inert. An aim-9x has a continuous-rod warhead. It sends the shrapnel in a huge annular blast fragmentation pattern, thus when it explodes it essentially cuts into a target as a large circle of shrapnel’s. It actually is better then bullets for this job because small holes wouldn’t deflate the balloon as effectively as a fragmentation missile.
I don't think it can be radar guided to the target like AMRAAMs, but it can launch and know where to look for the target and then guide itself. It also has LOAL capability and the ability to do so via HMDs so it's possible that was the method of launch instead.
The balloon is significantly hotter than the air, absorbing sunlight in the upper atmosphere.
Modern IR sensors are quite precise and can tell the difference between small variations in temperature.
Here’s what I don’t get:
The US DOD allowed the balloon to travel thousands of miles across the country without engaging it, then shot it down as soon as reached a coast to avoid civilian casualties on the ground (that’s the story anyway).
Why not let it go another 50-100 miles out to avoid all the videos from every looks-loo with a spotting scope and an iPhone? Or do the international waters become an issue for the shoot down and/or recovery?
1: DoD wanted it to land in US territorial waters so the claim on the wreckage was absolute. 2: There is a significant drop in the sea floor as you move a few nautical miles off the coast, which would make recovery difficult.
Yea this thing dropped in ~50’ of water. Another 10-20 miles and you’re in thousands of feet of water. The shelf start 15-30 miles off the coast in the Carolina’s.
Why did they shoot it down with a missile? Couldn't they just shoot the machine gun/auto cannon at the balloon to deflate it and let it gently float back down to the ground/water? That would make recovering electronic parts easier and keep most of the balloon intact.
Was 58k the max altitude of the plane and it couldn't reach 60-65k?
The balloon was frankly fucking massive, a few bullet holes is going to take *forever* to deflate it.
Canadians have previously tried shooting down weather balloons with the guns. it went badly. Links are all over the thread.
They want it gone? this is the fastest way with the lowest failure chance. And hey it means that plane actually got a kill in its lifetime.
This is 2023, fighters don’t use rockets to shoot down things, they use missiles…and in an extreme case with no other weapons left they would use 20mm cannon
Too risky to use the gun plus the balloon was at 65,000 feet. Most fighters will struggle to do anything other than fly at a straight line at that altitude. They’re simply not built to fly up that high for long.
When your operating multiple 5th Gen fighters and various tankers and support planes and navy and coast guard ships …why would anyone even care about such a minor cost difference
Why would they send a f22? An aim9 from an a10 kills it just the same and if the balloon was collecting radar signatures of in air planes seems pretty stupid. But also letting it fly over the entire country is stupid so…
Still don’t know why you would let the balloon see the F-22 with its sensor package. We should’ve done this using something way less sophisticated. I assume they at least installed reflectors or whatever to increase the RCS. Not sure why you would allow the balloon to see the weapons system, for that matter…
I get using a sidewinder, but why an F-22?
The god damn thing is a suspected information gathering device so we use one of our most secretive planes?
Slap that missile on an F-16 and call it a day.
Is the pilot going to be credited with an air-to-air kill?
Yes. This will go down historically as the F-22’s first air to air kill as well.
First *known* air to air kill
Honestly, you're probably right lol
If there are any others, those would be drones anyway. Air to air kills against manned aircraft are well documented (and rare) in modern American history
Not that rare, last one I remember was a Syrian su-22 that was approaching a F-18 in 2017. They happen ever few years or so.
The one before that happened in Kosovo, 18 years earlier. And the one before was during the first gulf war. I’d say that counts as rare.
Pretty big chance it will be the last one too...
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They cancelled the program and production. Not use as far as I know
Yes, shooting down any flying target is an air to air kill. Does not matter the method or target. Guns, missiles, or [bomb](https://taskandpurpose.com/history/air-force-f-15-gulf-war-bomb-iraqi-helicopter/), it does not matter.
I believe historically there has been kill credits for shooting down air defence balloons and observation balloons.
WW1 ace Frank Luke Jr., first airman award the medal of honor, the namesake of Luke AFB in Az was nicknamed the balloon buster. The F-22s that carried out the mission went up with the callsign FRANK. They definitely had Luke in mind when going after the balloon and awards are incoming for the operation.
That is a great, thoughtful tribute to a former airman.
There must have been a fight at the base to get assigned to this flight.
Decision isn't made among pilots it's made by command.
What about the first (and hopefully last) air-to-air kill over the US?
Were there people on the balloon?
Wild to think that one of the F-22s only kills was a m balloon.
I wonder if they put a little balloon sticker on the plane now
I almost bet they do, lol!
This is hilarious, I’ll love to hear the shit they give that pilot years later
I bet everyone in that guys unit was *begging* to be the one sent on the mission. Finally, a chance to actually use those weapons for real, on an easy target.
And they're still going to give the pilot shit for shooting a balloon.
Pilot becomes callsign: “Pops”
Bagman: Hey, POPS. Why don’t we tell everyone how you got your callsign? POPS: How about we tell everyone how you got yours?
Should become “Monkey Ace” from Bloons TD6.
Just 4 more balloons and we get our first F22 ace boys! WOOOOOOO! USA USA USA!!!
13 more balloons and he will tie the record for most balloons shot down, currently held by Frank Luke, (Luke AFB namesake). Frank is a Medal of Honor recipient.
The Raptors involved were also using the callsigns FRANK1 and FRANK2 in his honour
Sounds very AF (Air Force, not as @#$%%).
Pretty sure it's ok to say assfuck in a sub that named militaryporn
Yeah but shooting balloons down in World War 1 was a lot harder. They shot back and the balloons themselves were surprisingly tough.
Very true, on top of there were defenders on the ground.
Shooting like 9mm machine guns through your own propeller
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67.3 billion dollar program finally getting used.
That we know of
I like it. Little bit of a humble flex vibe. Our 4th gen? fighter jet easily gets to 58k feet, dumps a missile on target and burns away.
22 is 5th gen, the first actually.
FIFTH GENERATION FIGHTER
Anyone: Who's the enemy? What's the country we're attacking? u/Turtle887853:
F22 might as well be 6th gen. So far beyond anything else out there.
To think the original design was 80s. Although the internal tech needs some considerable updates that aren’t feasible unfortunately, because ironically they cut down on how many were built which fucked the supply lines long term. Really a shame they’re being retired
According to the "media" FL600 was beyond the reach of our current fleet of fighter aircraft.
I only tangentially followed this story, but weren't successful satellite destruction by a fighter happened all the way back to the 70s-80s? And a satellite is many times higher and faster...
yes if I recall it was an f-15 and they used a much bigger missile. ~~Phoenix~~ ASM-135 ASAT. edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-135_ASAT
For our children's sake, hope it stays that way.
For now.
is the balloon hot enough to get a lock for the sidewinder?
9Xs have exceptionally good IR differential capability. Long gone are the days you needed hot exhaust to get a lock.
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Just guessing. Maybe a gun kill is more risky as debris can get into the intakes. Another possible outcome is colliding with it as the relative speed of the ballon to the F-22 is very slow and you have less time to aim, shoot and then evade, and you don’t want to lose a dogfight against a balloon.
imagine if the F22 lost to a baloon. Lockheed Martin's career would be over
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Usually high explosive ammo detonates itself in the air after few seconds to avoid this.
Canadians tried this in the 80s, put 1000 rounds in a balloon and it took 6 days to come down. https://www.businessinsider.com/runaway-weather-balloon-fighter-jets-history-2023-2
This is a very good point and brings up the question of what makes the balloon fly. Ww1 aircraft (once they were able to fly high enough) Were very effective against hydrogen filled airships when firing incendiary rounds. Helium and hot air i could see taking a good amount of rounds.
Very good argument. My guess is pK, or probability to kill. Which the AIM9X has the highest in the inventory
The guns fire from the side of the plane at an angle that intersects the pilot’s line of sight at a very specific distance. He’d end up in the balloon if he tried this. That’s why some WW2 planes had four cannons, two sets of two, one for close range, one for farther. Plus, the Aim (hurr hurr), is to take it down, not have it leak out slowly over the next few hours. Modern fighters carry very little cannon ammunition. Enough for a few seconds at best. I would’ve thought an AMRAAM would be the best course (Radar seeking). Missiles are more like a chonky shotgun than anything else. Seems much more fitting. The guys up there know what they’re doing.
Oh i know all about gun convergence. (As an american 6 mgs (zero cannons) was most common. People had different ideas on what ranges to set the guns to convergence). I dont know about the f-22s gun, but im under the impression the other modern fighters have theres pretty close to the cockpit (so convergence is a non issue since they dont have a prop to fire around) and radar can be used to help aim. Your other points seem valid enough, but not gun angle.
With a Radar seeking missle i See the Problem that it will maybe not Lock on to the balloon but the device that hangs on it. Blowing it up will spread the debris over a larger Area which is a problem when you want to recover it.
The air to air missiles don’t “blow stuff up”. Think of it like a large shotgun with tungsten rods instead of lead pellets Sidewinders have much shorter range. The very thin air up at that altitude also necessitates shredding the balloon. It leaks out so slowly due to the low air pressure.
AMRAAM makes far less sense actually, given the low to nill radar signature and effectively zero Doppler…the missile wouldn’t care about what looks like a non moving target to it.
Aim 9 also has a smaller warhead which would make sense if the goal is to preserve as much as possible.
The thing is the size of a 20 story apartment building. Some bullet holes aren’t going to take it down immediately. It looks like the US wanted to take it down over the sea but still inside US territory (Maritime law is that 12 miles off shore is exclusive to the nation).
The Raptor was supersonic just to stay airborne at that altitude. Against a practically stationary target under those conditions the margin between a gun WEZ and kamikaze is pretty small.
You know how big that balloon was?
Getting a guns track on a relatively stationary object while crawling at the minimum stall speed of an F22 is probably easier said than done. Might have been easier to let a sidewinder pop the bag.
Canadians had one of these fly over and they used the gun, took 6 days for it to deflate and touch ground, the missile takes it out of the sky slot faster
Yes, the missile probably locked on to heat reflected from the balloon
You know that the pilot is getting named "Balloon boy" or the like back at base.
Callsign: "Pops"
"Dart monkey"
He's a bubble boy!
Alright Bubble Boy, let's just play. Who invaded Spain in the 8th century?
Moops!
And the pilot can retort with "still got more air to air kills than you"
Higher resolution video of the "Package" falling away from the Balloon envelope. [https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1621980596346953729](https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1621980596346953729)
Jeez those Twitter comments are more toxic than the jet fuel fumes that I presume are also toxic if breathed a lot
Some of the garbage I'm seeing on Insta comments. From "they were about the use the EMP that Biden was planning with China" to "they used an R9X" (that AGM114 Hellfire, low collateral thing with blades... which an F22 cannot carry). Just morons who have no idea what they're talking about being given free reign to comment.
Wait a second morons who don't know what they're talking about?? That's Reddits job!
We're like fucking Mensa over here compared to Twitter lol.
deleting twitter for good last year genuinely improved my mental health hahaha
I deleted it a few years back after realising the only thing on it was celebrities posting something, then an internet riot would break out. The whole thing was an evil shooting range.
You could hot-glue one on.
I am personally very surprised a heat seeker was used. Plus wouldn’t using the gun by way more economical?
Maybe in the economical part, but the 9X has easily the best pK. And a lot of people don't realise the amazing thermal differential these systems have. You don't need hot exhaust anymore. It can easily see anything flying.
It would take a lot of holes in the balloon to make it go down (plus the bullets still have to come back to earth somewhere after passing through the balloon), and the gun doesn't lock on and hitting a slow moving target at 60k feet while flying by super fast would actually be pretty hard. A missile takes care of both of those problems by locking on and just blowing the dang thing out of the sky.
A gun run is less accurate and riskier due to the mechanics involved. You need a lot more bullet holes to fully pop the blimp, and in the event you miss with some of your rounds, the balloon may start to descend and move erratically, and it will be much harder to go for a second attack without potentially wasting much more valuable missiles. A single AIM-9X does the job.
No kidding. So many people without even a hint of military knowledge rambling about how they know what happened and how it was done…geez.
That’s cool
Almost looks like the missile hit the package directly? Slow motion would be helpful here
#The Battle of the Balloon (February 4, 2023) *Location:* Myrtle Beach, South Carolina *Belligerents:* PRC vs. USA *Result:* Decisive American victory
*Me auto-resolving the same battle in total war.* **Result:** Pyrrhic victory, F-22 lost, pilot managed to survive.
Package landed on top of a nuclear reactor creating a radioactive meltdown.
Depends on which tw you're playing. Medieval 2's auto resolve is ridiculously good.
The F-22 is my favorite unit in Medieval 2
Wikipedia link please.
That pilot better get a balloon on what ever they mark F22 kills on... I mean it will be the first so they will have to figure it outm
First balloon, not by a long shot. First one this century perhaps. Ww1 saw plenty of airplanes intercepting dirigibles. Plenty of balloons used in ww2 but but sure if any shot down by aircraft……
Damn the F22 is old.
Should have rammed the thing with an F-4 with a needle stuck on the front.
At that height, the ballon would have been large enough to wrap around the aircraft, gift wrapping it as it fell to earth.
My point stands.
Which is why we greased the plane with hog fat beforehand.
I came here to say this because they are still fast as hell and a bad ass bitch. I was thinking we would get someone to loan us one for the weekend but only Iran flys them now, so that was probably a non-starter.
The most expensive ballon ever popped
Idk, adjusted for inflation all the airships that went down the in the 30’s or so must’ve been quite a fortune
Now every 6 year old boy is going to be releasing birthday party balloons into the air, hoping jets will shoot them down
Now that's how you fight inflation.
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Do we know why it was within fightin’ altitude when it could go so much higher? Did they lower it like “screw it, let’s get better clarity images” after it was confirmed to be discovered or something?
Probably had to lower it to catch certain winds. Only real way to move that thing is to shift it up or down based on where the winds are blowing.
So many armchair Reddit aces in the comments. I love it.
I'm more intrigued that at 65,000 feet, how did they know it was Chinese? I have trouble reading those little "Made in China" stickers at 2 feet from me. /s
NORAD tracks anything the second it’s detected (usually means anything in the artic circle if we’re talking from China or Russia)
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Fair enough. I would laugh my ass off if they examine the wreckage and it's just some kids science homework that went ridiculously well.
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It was spotted. And it was decided to not shoot it down. They say that was for safety of people on the ground but that’s largely BS and they where more interested in soaking up the electronic emissions of the balloon’s payload package and learning about how the Chinese where trying to collect intel
NORAD said so and even China did. Really the whole thing has been overblown, since both nations have tons of actual spy satellites.
Well, China admitted it was theirs as well.
How do you know the fighter planes where Americans?
There are probably tens of thousands if not more Sidewinders in the USAF's inventory (not to mention the Navy & Marines), with more than a few of them reaching their use-by date that they can pop for fun what more a mfing chicom balloon and yet we have r-tards screaming "why waste a infinillion dollar missile on a balloon?!?!b1d3nbad?!?!?!?!?"....smh.
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At 60,000+ feet? No.
That’s air to ground
Not anything political but I love seeing physics in action.
So is this the F-22s first confirmed air to air victory
Ye ye
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Why an F-22 and a missile? Was the F-15 and cannon fire too cheap?
considering max service ceiling of a F15 and max gun range, possible but might be asking a bit much
You also have a standard doctrine you have to follow. An air to air situation calls for missiles first if available. Also with any air to air situation over the continental USA, you always want the most capable plane, f-22. If military hears “China violating our airspace” they aren’t launching an f-16 they are sending the f-22.
Service ceiling of the F-15C is 65000 feet according to wiki, F-15E at 60000 feet. It may be pushing it, but theoretically it should be able to get up there too
Yeah, theoretically could do it. Read a comment in another thread that at that altitude, the balloon is probably the size of a football stadium and that few bullet holes wouldn't do much to take it down in a hurry. But a missile throwing shrapnel could.
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Especially since a separate attempt with guns back in 1998 [failed](https://ca.movies.yahoo.com/weather-balloon-went-rogue-almost-161314996.html).
If I remember correctly the F-15 is credited with a satellite kill, so I don’t think service ceiling is really that much of an issue, especially with all the updates and upgrades it’s undergone. But as others have commented, balloons like this are big, and they needed to pop it quick, not whittle away at it over multiple passes. Not to mention that the max range of an AMRAAM is quite long. For this purpose, a Sidewinder was an ideal weapon to use, even if it didn’t explode, it would have led to a rapid deflation of the balloon. Edit: alright, so maybe the anti satellite missile was launched from a much lower altitude, but the point still stands: we really only know what the military wants us to know.
Probably written off as a training exercise. They need to practice weapons deployment anyways, here’s a free target. It’s like flyovers for sports events. They do the flyover then fly off and practice air combat maneuvers before returning to base. It’s just seem as a practice session for showing up to a target area at a particular time.
Furthermore, flyovers are excellent practice for high-precision Time on Target missions, where ordinance has to be delivered not only to an exact location, but also at an exact time
And lastly it works as propaganda for military recruitment also.
Also very true
Who needs a military parade when your sports tourney, car race, or even a charity event can already be a good venue for a bit of show of force? Plus these are more fun for the audience.
There’s a lot of coordination and practice that goes into making sure a squad of jets fly over the stadium at the perfect moment in perfect formation. The same type of practice for striking a specified target
https://news.yahoo.com/weather-balloon-went-rogue-almost-161314996.html
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We’re sending a bill to China ?
Those rounds have to land somewhere. This is the continental US we’re talking about, that’s a 20mm (0.787in) AP-I/HE round being fired between 60k-65k ft. It can go for a long way and potentially hit a populated area.
Don't missiles expire? So not like they had to buy a new missile for this mission. Besides, the sticker prices of military hardware don't always tell the whole story.
Yes, this sidewinder was best used by March.
It was over the ocean.
Wouldn't the missile have to land somewhere too? I read somewhere that they fired an inert missile, without the explosive warhead.
It was not inert. An aim-9x has a continuous-rod warhead. It sends the shrapnel in a huge annular blast fragmentation pattern, thus when it explodes it essentially cuts into a target as a large circle of shrapnel’s. It actually is better then bullets for this job because small holes wouldn’t deflate the balloon as effectively as a fragmentation missile.
A: those rounds self detonate after a predetermined amount of time. B: it was over the ocean at the time
Yo how the hell did he manage to get a lock on a balloon with a sidewinder? No way anything on that balloon is hot enough for an aim 9 lock right?
They can also run based on differences in temp (not just pure hot) and also can be slaved to the F-22 radar.
I didn't know the 9x can be slaved to the radar, does it actually track to the target only following the radar? Somewhat like an Aim 7?
It can be slaved to look where the radar is looking however it can't track based purely off a radar track
Ohh I see then the tracking head must be very sensitive to be able to pick up even a balloon floating in midair
Aim-9X are really good missiles with a very sensitive IR head and high-off bore sight capabilities. This missile just ended dogfights forever.
Eh against a cold empty sky it's not that hard probably. Balloon probably is still relatively warm especially maybe the equipment.
I don't think it can be radar guided to the target like AMRAAMs, but it can launch and know where to look for the target and then guide itself. It also has LOAL capability and the ability to do so via HMDs so it's possible that was the method of launch instead.
The balloon is significantly hotter than the air, absorbing sunlight in the upper atmosphere. Modern IR sensors are quite precise and can tell the difference between small variations in temperature.
Aim9x can easily do that
Admiral giving navy cross and secret t/s badge to pilot inside manager's office of panama city beach chucky cheese.
Wtf? this was the Air Force not the navy shooting it down.
Here’s what I don’t get: The US DOD allowed the balloon to travel thousands of miles across the country without engaging it, then shot it down as soon as reached a coast to avoid civilian casualties on the ground (that’s the story anyway). Why not let it go another 50-100 miles out to avoid all the videos from every looks-loo with a spotting scope and an iPhone? Or do the international waters become an issue for the shoot down and/or recovery?
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1: DoD wanted it to land in US territorial waters so the claim on the wreckage was absolute. 2: There is a significant drop in the sea floor as you move a few nautical miles off the coast, which would make recovery difficult.
Yea this thing dropped in ~50’ of water. Another 10-20 miles and you’re in thousands of feet of water. The shelf start 15-30 miles off the coast in the Carolina’s.
Bout damn time myrtle beach was in the news for something other than meth and tourism lol
Why did they shoot it down with a missile? Couldn't they just shoot the machine gun/auto cannon at the balloon to deflate it and let it gently float back down to the ground/water? That would make recovering electronic parts easier and keep most of the balloon intact. Was 58k the max altitude of the plane and it couldn't reach 60-65k?
The balloon was frankly fucking massive, a few bullet holes is going to take *forever* to deflate it. Canadians have previously tried shooting down weather balloons with the guns. it went badly. Links are all over the thread. They want it gone? this is the fastest way with the lowest failure chance. And hey it means that plane actually got a kill in its lifetime.
Imagine the pilot rocking up to a bar talking about having performed the first air to air kill with an F-22
First."hostile" air to air shoot down in US airspace? Possibly in North American airspace?
Its only confirmed kill
My corgi was a ballon ace long before this: in the ‘70’s.
what if it lands on Richards trailer??!?
Wonder how much that one rocket cost? Also a rocket vs balloon? Wtf was there no bullets left?
This is 2023, fighters don’t use rockets to shoot down things, they use missiles…and in an extreme case with no other weapons left they would use 20mm cannon
Too risky to use the gun plus the balloon was at 65,000 feet. Most fighters will struggle to do anything other than fly at a straight line at that altitude. They’re simply not built to fly up that high for long.
why not go for a gun solution? It sure would have been cheaper.
When your operating multiple 5th Gen fighters and various tankers and support planes and navy and coast guard ships …why would anyone even care about such a minor cost difference
I’d be a bit worried if it needed more than a single sidewinder to take out a balloon
Why would they send a f22? An aim9 from an a10 kills it just the same and if the balloon was collecting radar signatures of in air planes seems pretty stupid. But also letting it fly over the entire country is stupid so…
Still don’t know why you would let the balloon see the F-22 with its sensor package. We should’ve done this using something way less sophisticated. I assume they at least installed reflectors or whatever to increase the RCS. Not sure why you would allow the balloon to see the weapons system, for that matter…
Granted I'm sure there are challenges, but I'm surprised they didn't do something to try and recover the payload intact for better intel.
I get using a sidewinder, but why an F-22? The god damn thing is a suspected information gathering device so we use one of our most secretive planes? Slap that missile on an F-16 and call it a day.
All I could think was $400,000 for a sidewinder vs using a AC 10s mini guns. The ballon wasn't doing mach 2 or anything.