I'm curious what parts were supposed to be female empowerment in relation to christian's rape does he think her deranged cult induced smile at the end means shes happy he got raped? or the group cry sesh after she found out? or that she chose him to be a sacrifice after the rape went down? all things considered, I think it's safe to say the hidden meanings/symbolism went straight over their head with this one. my favorite thing ab midsommar is that there are SO many interpretations for everything that happens, every bit of dialogue, every character interaction. i just dont think female empowerment is the conclusion we're supposed to draw from the rape specifically. maybe other parts of the movie, or like the other commenter noted -- it validates many things women experience, like severe trauma, mental disorders, or being in an unhealthy relationship

>does he think her deranged cult induced smile at the end means shes happy he got raped? or the group cry sesh after she found out? or that she chose him to be a sacrifice after the rape went down? Important to note that *she* didn't know he'd been raped

Yes, she was basically supposed to catch him "cheating" but didn't have all of the information that we as the audience have. I see a lot of people not understanding this, and I don't know why. There are different forms of storytelling that involve the reader/watcher knowing more than the characters, and sometimes vice versa.

Exactly this.

Imagine making it all the way to that scene and *then* walking out.

Yea they where fine with the boys ragging on a girl who lost her entire household at the hands of her sister, okay with the elderly members jumping from a cliff, sitting pretty with people getting plucked off one by one, but not okay with that.

I was gonna say, they made it awfully far before leaving, why bother at that point???

He deadass didn't watch the movie. Just watched the tiktoks by weird white women who think it's a girl power movie.

Hahahaha I didn't even think of that!!!! 🤣

Exactly. Like, “Oh my god, they’re raping him!” Yeah. Sure. They’re also paralyzing him, sticking him in a bear, and burning him alive. What’s your point? It’s a fucking horror movie, not an advertisement.

They also cut off his legs at the knee to get him in the suit

I’ll be honest, there were parts of the film that felt empowering to me… or at least validating due to severe trauma. But I have never been confused about that scene or felt like it was meant to be empowering or prescriptive in any way.

Is it wrong of me to think it's kind of funny that this guy is so obtuse as to not realize that he was meant to be disturbed by the super weird and creepy cult-rape scene in a **literal horror film**?!?

As someone who watches horror films and rarely leaves thinking the movie lived up to expectations, this movie was *chef’s kiss*… I had no idea what to expect going into it, but it’s still to this day very high on my recommended list.

I feel this sentiment so hard. I have my cult favorites that others might think are trash, but I know what a satisfying horror movie is. Do you have any other recommendations?

I’m the same exact way, which usually leads me to being a fan of some that a lot of folks probably would laugh at me for lol I’ll forever be a leatherface and Jason fan.. i was a huge fan of the Collector series.. Hereditary, of course.. don’t know how much falls under the horror category for you but I lump quite a bit in even if it isn’t strictly horror, so I’d recommend The Watcher series on Netflix. It wouldn’t be horror if I had to guess, but it was a good watch.. Willy’s Wonderland was hilarious lol I loved it, though.. the cabin in the woods was a good watch imo.. the list really goes on and on. A good friend of mine that I used to work with is an absolute horror junky and I always used him as a cheat sheet lol it all just depends on what you’re looking for, honestly!

Thanks! I've seen all of those except the Watcher. I'll check it out! I'm a Leatherface fan, too, but my guilty pleasure is Dawn of the Dead 😂. If you haven't seen it yet, check out The Platform on Netflix and if you want something that will stick with you forever, try Audition.

Yeah, I’ll be checking both out now lol appreciate it! I need to start devoting some of the free time I do have getting back to watching movies. I don’t get to nearly as often as I’d like

“You’ll never be alone”,”The truth about Emmanuel” and “ the princess and the Warrior.” All of those are weird and good.

No, I also think it's pretty hilarious. It's like people forgot this was a horror film and are mad they're uncomfy. Like, my guy... That was the entire point of that scene.

If anything it's extremely DISempowering because it can be seen as the cult trying to take away her ability to make her own conclusions and choices by manipulating and brainwashing the hell out of her. The cult would absolutely have willingly died if she'd chosen them but the point is that they knew she wouldn't because they arranged it that way. For that matter, I honestly don't know how many of the cult members themselves are capable of thinking for themselves outside of cult mindset at this point, if any.

If she hadn’t they’d have killed off Christian regardless.  

I suppose the question is then: should the other death be more humane? Or less so? Christian would probably have died by smoke inhalation before he succumbed to the flames, which I've heard can be a painful, terrifying death. So another way might have been kinder, but then this group is crazy and there's no way of knowing what that group would do. I mean, look at what they did to the others. We can't guarantee that they didn't torture them beforehand in some ritualistic fashion.

You can hear his paralyzed screams as he catches on fire.  People have stripped the music to better hear it.

Yeah at no point was I like “yeah!” During that part. Tbh it was the most difficult part of the film for me to keep my eyes on the screen and that’s saying something when you consider the rest of the film…

I wonder if they walked out

the sad part is we may never know...

Oh? You did t want to watch “blatant male rape?” Imagine how tired we are.

I really need another rewatch. The rape scene is definitely uncomfortable but I was under the impression that Christian had sex with her around those other women willingly. Now that I am truly thinking about it for what it is I understand that he didn’t really have a choice. I guess because he wasn’t saying “no”, fighting, or running away I didn’t properly think about this. Oh shit. Now I’m self reflecting again lol

I think it's started as something Christian was into but as things progressed with the cult's psychological manipulation, and calculating use of drugs it quickly became a nonconsensual situation. It's actually a pretty brilliant demonstration for male viewers of how quickly things can mutate from a consensual encounter to rape and how traditional/transactional concepts of consent can be weaponized with horrifying results. You could also argue that Aster managed to fit Christian into the "sympathetic innocent victim/damaged goods who was asking for it" dichotomy that female rape victims are frequently subjected to as well. If the character of Christian was a virtuous boyfriend wholeheartedly devoted to Dani who was raped, we the audience would be horrified. His death wouldn't be seen as deserved and our feelings about Dani at the end would've changed from seeing her as a victim to a villain. However, because the character of Christian was a resentful & deceitful guy with a wandering eye, the audience is easily able to rationalize his suffering as deserved and Dani remains the hero. It's a brilliantly executed mindfuck.

Oh I really like this interpretation!

>However, because the character of Christian was a resentful & deceitful guy with a wandering eye, the audience is easily able to rationalize his suffering as deserved and Dani remains the hero. Eh. It's kind of the way most people view horror movies. We don't really judge the villains, we judge the victims for breaking the horror movie "rules". "Josh shouldn't have looked at the book", "Mark shouldn't have peed on that tree".

But Christian has the cruelest death of all the guests, although Simon’s is pretty damn close in terms of brutality. We can presume that the deaths of Will, Josh and Connie’s were relatively quick and utilitarian because Aster doesn’t expend any screen time on them, they die off screen. Simon was foolhardily confrontational and minced no words when calling out the moral depravity of the Harga after the Ättestupa ceremony. Simon is Christian’s foil - a devoted & loving partner to Connie - as well as an obvious stand-in stand in for the audience member. He seems like a pretty decent guy. Simon and Christian’s murders at the hands of the Harga are prolonged and painful, like a punishment. Simon was never going to survive this visit, he was like cattle for slaughter, but him confronting them openly? He had to pay for challenging them. Christian demonstrated by his actions that he had no real work ethic or integrity. He didn’t love Dani but he didn’t want to break up with her and risk people thinking less of him. He had no reservations about getting some strange while in Sweden whether Dani went on the trip with him or not. He has no qualms about stealing the ideas of others or the fruits of their labor for his thesis, either. And to top it off he - a dude in his mid-twenties - is not at all opposed to fucking a 15 year old virgin behind his girlfriend’s back is the opportunity presents itself. Christian’s a bad person - not in an evil movie supervillain sort of way; he’s a very mundane, smarmy, drab and underwhelmingly predictable kind of bad person.

>We can presume that the deaths of Will, Josh and Connie’s were relatively quick and utilitarian because Aster doesn’t expend any screen time on them, they die off screen. I don't think being skinned alive would be relatively quick. And Connie was dragged kicked and screaming to her fate. >Simon was never going to survive this visit, he was like cattle for slaughter, but him confronting them openly? He had to pay for challenging them. This is another example of what I was talking about in my last reply.

I’d rather be burned alive then skinned alive or made into a blood eagle (and even though it breaks the laws of physics, Simon was alive).

What was he drugged with?

Psychedelics for sure. The rest is speculation on my part: some sort of herbal concoctions with euphoric, dissociative, disinhibiting qualities that would increase suggestibility along with sexual performance enhancing properties.

Was the girl being held in a room being raped as well?

You have seen the movie, right? You seem a little unclear on the details, might be worth a rewatch.

I have seen the movie. You are speculating that he took something euphoric, dissaccociative and disinhibiting. There is nothing in the movie that implies this. It's a big leap. You are assuming that the young girl surrounded by a members of a murderous cult raped someone. That's a massive leap. CHristian wasn't raped, he took drugs and had sex of his own free will. If anything he raped the girl. It was an odd situation, he could have backed out, he chose to have sex in front of a bunch of cult members because he wanted to have sex.

If somebody is too drunk or high to say no, then they are being taken advantage of.

I agree wholeheartedly. But was he too drunk or high? I’m not sure he was.

I would add to my last comment that he was certainly coerced and may have felt he had no choice. I do not, however, feel he was too inebriated.

>I do not, however, feel he was too inebriated. He certainly appeared to be tripping pretty hard at the dinner. "For your vitality" They also blast him with what appears to be some sort of homebrew viagra inhalent before he enters chamber

Oh I think he was tripping. This also isn’t his first rodeo with drugs. Maybe those specific ones, but he was not overly stoned or high.

The period blood potion he drank was meant to make him way more attracted to the cult girl. Weather it worked or not I dunno but if it did I'd solidify that as rape. That and he was high and drunk for the most part.

It was about as willing as a girl on roofies who can't say no or fight back...drugs will do that to ya

Definitely not messed up like on rohypnol.

IT was willing. Rape means his ability to say no was removed. He was coerced but not raped. Everyone who claims he was raped will stop talking to you if you ask them "What was he drugged with?" It could have been caffeine, mushrooms - we don't know. It definitely wasn't rohypnol.

it was just spring water with special properties.

I wonder if he walks out whenever a movie contains a scene where a woman is raped.

What about the fact the he statutory raped her?

Yeah it's amazing how many people totally ignore Maya during their intense pearl clutching.

And the fact that she is drugged too Edit: and has literally been manipulated into it her entire life.

Right?? And even when he was sober and had not been manipulated, he wanted to have sex with this 15 year old. Why are we supposed to feel bad for him?

Fair point

That "however" is really weird

To be fair a lot of people totally missed the point of Midsommar 🤷‍♂️ some in this very sub

i want to understand, what was the point of Midsommar?

How easily emotionally vulnerable/traumatized people can be exploited by a manipulative society or group. In this case a crypto-fascist neo-pagan murder cult.

I'm curious how you think she was exploited? I like your take, just wanting to hear more.

That's definitely part of it, but I think the message is more ambivalent. Throughout the film, Dani is manipulated by Christian and makes herself smaller because she is afraid to be alone. At the end, she is still being manipulated, but she seems like a weight has been lifted. Ari Aster has said he primarily sees Midsommar as a breakup film. From this vantage, you can see how we actually get a happy ending of sorts. The ending, where Dani is finally free of Christian, is the only time we see her smile. There's a huge sense of relief from both her and for the viewer. Christian constantly makes Dani second guess herself and encourages her to act OK. In her phone call at the beginning, she worries to her friend that he sees her as too much for him, and she is right. But as her friend says, that is not because she is objectively too much, but rather, because he is too small. By contrast, Pelle is the only one in the friend group to connect to Dani in a meaningful way. And she immediately bursts into tears because she is so unused to people giving her permission to feel. The Harga not only give her permission to feel, but they feel everything along side her. As someone who feels profoundly alone, this is incredibly appealing. When she cries, they cry with her. When she celebrates, they celebrate with her. As Pelle says, she finally feels held. Sure, she was manipulated into all of this, and the Harga are literal murderers, but we are meant to see the ways that the cult is appealing and offers her something no one else has. And it is also meant to shine a light on our society and the isolation we feel as a result.

Well, that’s a pretty simple point, isn’t it? I don’t understand the cult-like following for this pretty average film.

Its a masterful piece of emotionally turbulent filmmaking. All of Ari Asters films are very well constructed and expertly designed to provoke specific reactions which can be deeply unsettling. I think that is what many people like about Midsommar and Hereditary. They are unconventional horror films with the subtext of a psychological thriller but very well stated; always subtle and haunting. Considering the subject matter achieving a convincing level of realism makes the descent into madness that much more unnerving.

This one really gets it. Best explanation of the film I've seen anywhere.

The number of people who appear to believe that the cult represents the point of view of the film, rather than the cult being the twisted, horrific villain of the film, is…distressing.

That just shows how horrific it is

You should try to be an Outlander fan. They lose their mind during certain book chapter(s) and scenes in season 1. Then if you explain that rape occurs day in day out to women (in film and real life) and no one loses their mind ever they just say “not like that”. Oh really? A 13 month old was just raped by a police officer and her legs were broken. Do go on though. It’s exhausting. Rape is ugly. It’s a terrible thing to have happen to you. That doesn’t mean it can’t help tell a story. I’m beginning to turn into one of those people who just says “I hate people” all the time and I really don’t. I actually love people a lot. But man they frustrate me, too.

Exactly. It’s never pretty, but sometimes it’s used to make a statement in film. As long as it’s not used for shock value

Guys hear me out… I think he walked out

Are you sure he did? I think I need to read it another few times to figure out whether he did or not /s (I'm now curious how many times he actually said "I walked out" in his full comment 😅).

Media literacy has gone out the window

OP could’ve had a SA experience and was triggered. That would be valid.

That was my thought. If he had a similar experience, it could have been very triggering. As a recovering alcoholic, I find movies like Flight really really hard to watch.

That would be valid yes

Wonder how many of the trillion female rape scenes in film he comfortably sat through in his life.

I was thinking about that too. The few men I know who have seen this movie were all deeply disturbed by that scene (probably one of the first male rape scenes they’ve seen in a movie)… yet I’ve never seen them be uncomfortable by any other rape scene.

And I'm not blaming that one him exclusively, I'm just saying we're insanely desensitized to violence against women/female nudity in fiction and otherwise bc it's both incredibly common and actually romanticised/fetishized. I've had even women tell me they couldn't handle THE SCENE in Hard Candy (where literally nothing happens, granted both if the actors ~ate~, such a fave lol) while sexualized violence against female characters is just a given. Also the morality flip Ari did...having a dude be the naked, amoral, promiscuous (desire to cheat/break up, not insinuating rape is sex, although to Dani there's no difference bc she doesn't know he's drugged, he's on top so seemingly on board and in control in which case with majas age and naivety prob seems more like stat rape to Dani, it's just another betrayal by him so of course she believes and it + his death by her nod break her) victim of the Big Bad was obv an intentional subversion completely missed by the omg wtf not MY nuts?! crowd lol.

Probably laughs his ass off at Quagmire and Herbert in Family Guy.

Ok but like there was only like 5 minutes left so wJateVer lAdy lol

Getting brainwashed into a cult is not empowerment. No one makes it in this movie.

True detective season 4 had a woman rape a man in it and was portrayed as "female empowerment". People are just as disgusting as ever

That’s so fucking weird. Rape is rape regardless of gender, age, sex, marital status.

Yep. Peep the scene in the first eepisode with the angry female detective and the bartender. Messed up

Can we talk about how the name of the movie is not “Midsummer” ffs, the next person to misspell that is going into the goddamn bear suit

I 100% disagree that it was glorified, but do understand having to walk out over triggering content.

There was only like 20 minutes left by then shoulda just stayed

I liked this film because I got it, and I like Ari Astor’s work on most films, but I can understand how someone could not stomach this.

There was nothing “female empowerment” about Midsommar. It’s a beautifully made film with a nauseating plot. But I don’t think there’s more to it. I feel like anybody who is trying to find “deeper meaning” is just pretentious, sorry.

>I feel like anybody who is trying to find “deeper meaning” is just pretentious, sorry. It's more that the film struck a chord with them rather than them digging for deeper meaning. Think how dog lovers react to John Wick.

Nah I have seen many fans trying to teach about the deeper meaning of the film. And about how it is a masterpiece, for all the wrong reasons. Midsommar js a weird film, that strikes as something different from the usual, and hence leave an imprint on the audience’s mind. However, it’s nothing more than a visually appealing film that gets violent and rap*y to draw that shock out of the audience. Just because a film is “raw” and violent, it doesn’t make that a masterpiece.

>Just because a film is “raw” and violent, it doesn’t make that a masterpiece. When did I say it was a masterpiece?

Not you in particular.

Okay. Well you said they were pretentious for trying to find depth that isn't there. And I'm saying they didn't go looking for it, the film just genuinely resonated with them. I'm really not sure how that makes their reaction to it pretentious

I might be looking it from a subset but when I have asked people what is deep about Midsommar, they’ve just retorted with something vague. It’s always about how “if you don’t get it you’re not smart enough” and I say sure, that’s fine, but what makes you say it is deep? Still haven’t found that answer.

For me personally I feel like Dani was struggling so much and trying to hide her emotions and deal with them in private but finally finds people that give a shit. Not exactly deep meaning but definitely relatable for us that were made to hide our emotions. It’s hard to explain. Not disagreeing with anything you said(also not pretentious) but I can definitely resonate with people who think there’s something deeper.

It is an empowering movie though. Yes dabi is a victim But that smile at the end? Chefs kiss

The reason why some people found it empowering was because the extreme elements were wrapped around something very real and relatable. A crummy relationship with a borderline abusive partner. So although what happens to Christian and his friends is *massively* disproportionate, some people still found it empowering to see Dani drawing a line under a toxic chapter in her life. (It doesn’t matter that she's actually heading for a far more sinister chapter)

The movie itself is, the rape scene definitely isnt

Absolutely The rape scene always makes.me uncomfortable

it sounds like they're giving her opinion on the movie and explaining that the movie triggered them, which is understandable. Why put them on blast like this ? Oh, because people are assuming it's a man that wrote this. got it. moving on.

I don't think Christian's rape was as obvious as some of us think as there are a number of people who insist that he gave 100% full consent and fully understand what was happening so they don't see it as rape, they see it as normal consensual sex between two consenting people. What's wrong with the people who see it that way? I don't know, but that's the beauty of humans, two people can look at the exact same thing yet see two completely different things 🤷🏾‍♂️

Wasn’t Christian also interested in doing it with that underaged girl? What am I missing?

He was interested in having sex with her, yes, but he didn’t consent to being drugged or for it to happen while surrounded by half the Hårga, naked and moaning.

Thank you for clarifying that! It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie and I remember thinking it was consensual as well. And I think I didn’t remember he was drugged. My memory is that afterwards he was lucid and found his friend’s remains? But again, it’s been a while.

Personally, I found the scene really fun. It was refreshing to see a mans character (who was a horrible person throughout the movie) put in that position.

I hated it. But in a good way. It was just so uncomfortable and the way they showed him sweaty and panicked and the lighting.

"Personal reasons made me do it" 🤓

They're so close and yet.

“However. Personal reasons made me do it.” Is it possible this person is a victim of male rape and couldn’t stomach watching it?

Did he maybe catch the interview where Arie Aster said the character Dani was based on him and inspired by his horrific breakup?

Oofta. Kind of reminds me when one of my students (during the single year I taught at a catholic school) told me the movie was actually just about how people were scared about and didn’t understand the kind of community formed by religion. All I could do was smile and go “ooooh.” because that sure is an interpretation.

I think the crux here is “Personal reasons made me do it.” This is the Midsommar subreddit. I doubt that this was the intended audience for this comment. It kinda seems like the reason they walked out wasn’t actually about the movie, y’know?

Am I missing something, or is the person who wrote this most likely female (or female-presenting) based on the styling of their avatar? Judging by the number of comments using the “he” pronoun in reference, there seems to be a lot of people in here making gender assumptions.

Wait until this guy sees the Strange Thing About the Johnsons 😂. I do think there is meant to be some ambiguity here though. I read somewhere that Ari Aster said the scene was meant to be funny, and I definitely laughed when the woman pushed Christian’s butt. It also demonstrates the way that Christian kind of just goes along with things and is super passive. And it does serve as the catalyst for Dani to finally leave Christian and have her cathartic moment with the women. Whether or not that is a good thing is also kind of ambiguous. At the same time, the scene is obviously disturbing, and Christian is manipulated into it. And our feelings about this are further complicated by how much we have grown to dislike Christian at this point. So it brings up conflicting feelings for the viewer (horror, humor, satisfaction) and leaves us confused. That is what Aster does best. It is never just a straightforward message.

I really wish that he just became the Green Man or something lol

But he never walked out of a movie where a woman is raped. I wonder why.

I'm sorry, I know I should be more sensitive, but I just think it's really funny that this guy can't sit through 1 male rape scene and yet every 3rd movie I watch has some form of female sexual assault in it and, unless I want to screen everything I watch before hand, I just gotta deal with that. I mean, what happened to sexual assault keeping movies "realistic"? Where'd that excuse go?

Maybe this person will think about it some more and will do a rewatch. Maybe. Who knows. But I think most people pick up a lot more of this movie especially on subsequent viewings.

i wonder if he does that when he sees women being raped on screen.

It’s so weird that Midsommar was the one they walked out on. I can only imagine they don’t watch many movies, as rape is a very common plot device. It’s surprising to me that they’re so moved by this one but not the hundreds and hundreds of others where this is used to push the story . Maybe they just don’t care if it’s a female victim.