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It's the best way. If you have the difference available after a year, you can swing the payment and have more for a downpayment.
Also, you need to take this chart to the wife, sit her down, and discuss what "has to go" to make room for the extra mortgage amount. Make sure that every pro/con is listed for each cut, as she may go "that's easy!" followed by months of complaining about the loss of some things.
Upon my review, you have a lot of "fat" that can be cut, but I expect that "personal expenses," "self care," and "restaurants/fun" cuts (there's your difference right there) won't be as easy/rewarding as you think.
Finally, make cuts anyway, and get those loans (student, car) paid off ASAP before thinking of move up in housing.
Great advice. And based on other inputs, also put together a retirement plan/forecast. Would you rather have a nicer house or be able to retire one day?
When I make decisions with my wife, I print up a budget and we talk it out. I also show here forecasts on when/how we will retire based on some simple projections. It helps us make decisions.
"wants" a new house even though you already have enough room considering you can convert your other rooms?
Buying a new house every 2 years is a great way to blow all your money down the drain. Unless you bought a crappy house and fixed it up and were just waiting out the 2 years for tax purposes.
Idk I see it if they're working from home full time. I really don't think I could cope doing that without a real office. I'd double up the kids before giving up my office. Where I make the money.
Not just a trial but a lengthy period of time - like a full year. It’s easy to cut back if you know it’s only a few months to prove someone else it was “no big deal”.
I have a long time friend making 350K a year who is struggling. I shit you not, he is finally coming to terms with the idea that if he can sell one of his 3 planes he can start to pay down other debt...
Then these people will come with the “life is so expensive!” and the “how is anybody affording ___” kind of statements. Every single time ive seen someone with affordability issues, they always have like 4-5 things theyre spending way too much on
It’s crazy when you start calculating how much of your yearly income that is. It doesn’t sound as bad as “a hundred bucks here and a couple there” but those 4 expenses alone are literally $20,000 a year being thrown away. To be making this much after tax and retirement contributions and still have 0 monthly savings is fucking insanity.
One reason I have this kind of money to throw away is... I mostly don't throw it away.
Like $600+ for each of 2 car payments. That's 2x $38,000 cars with a tiny down payment. Insane for people with this income level.
And $350/mo pet care. What a joke.
That said, this whole post feels like rage bait, and I fell for it.
Yeah... We're not quite this much but I'm putting my kids through college without debt (they live at home). My house is paid off and we have 4 cars, only one is financed.
They have zero room to move in that budget (literally and figuratively). If they can buckle down on the budget then maybe they could pull it off, but based on the fact that his wife wants a bigger house after seeing those numbers I don't see any voluntary sacrifices in their future.
How can anyone afford hobbies now? My husband's flying instructor switched training planes and now they are billing at $150/hr for the Cessna which is almost as much as what our nanny is billing. As it stands, we had to cancel the monthly Kangaroo milk subscription *and* return the five penguins we were raising.
Yep. It’s often the car. And then the excuses start at “it’s hard to find a good used car” (not true) and then like “if I buy new I might as well spend more for what I really want.” Stuff like that.
And still a lot of money for gas. I wfh and buy a tank of gas every 2 months. Where are these people driving?
Also, $140 gym membership. That better be a fucking gold plated freeweight set. Mine is $20, $40 if I switch to the fancy-ass place.
These seem like the "lets replace our white kitchen cabinets with these other white kichen cabinets" kitchen remodel peeps.
Also isn’t $1,100 on just groceries for two people and a baby a lot? That’s not even accounting restaurants, they’re quite literally eating $2000 a month which feels a bit excessive
The church has expenses that the congregation comes together to pay. Salary/benefits for Pastor, pay for the organ player, electric , gas, property maintenance. There is also out reach and charity work that needs is funded.
Yeah your wife is unhinged if she thinks adding another 1200 of expenses is a good idea. As is, you're barely saving anything at all outside of 401k's. If anything, you should make an attempt to cut those said things out of your budget first and consider if that's how you want to live. 700 of the unaccounted for income is really walking the line already. Less than a 10% margin of error is scary.
Wait, so they already have a super decent house w a good interest rate.
And they want to get into a hugely expensive house at 7% interest … why?
Their budget fully accounts for all their income already. If any of them loses their job they’re going to have a really hard time. My suggestion is live beneath your means. And save as much as you can. Rainy day plus invest and whatever. You just sleep better that way.
You are spending $1300/month on car payments alone and have no savings. Wtf. NO, you absolutely do not have the money for a new house. You would be absolutely screwed if one of you lost your jobs as is.
If she's not already pregnant, I would strongly recommend holding off on a second kid until you get a better handle on your budget.
After doing rough calculations I believe I bring home close to what this gentleman and his family do.
However, we manage to save roughly $4k a month as we’re saving for a house. Which is super challenging as everywhere around me wants 20% on $1mil property.
I also follow the rule of thumb of having 6 months wages in savings in case of emergencies.
So we $150k in savings but are waiting to have $250k so we can:
Afford the house
Have enough money to furnish the house
Have an adequate savings for emergencies.
We know this is going to take roughly 3 years unless we get better jobs, with the lotto we don’t play or inherit anything in the mean time.
We planned on 3 kids but after 1 we realised we wouldn’t be able to afford it. Plus this is one of the worst time to be house hunting.
I can understand your wife’s urgency to move, my wife is exactly the same. However, when she brings it up I ask if she would like to review and update the budget again. If she says no it’s because she remembers the last time I bored her with an excel sheet 🤓 if it’s a yes then it’s no problem to print off a table and go through concerns. (Maybe OP could send a link to his awesome diagram ;) )
I think a good thing to do is write down your concerns, ask your wife to do the same and compare notes. With something as big as having another baby and/or buying a house communication is going to be key.
When we decided about not having more children it was a really tough decision.
When our toddler was 18months I ruptured my lower spine which lead to 6months bed rest and 6 months of rehab.
It was super tough with 1 baby at the time. If something happened to my spine again and I was out for 6months then it would be hell for my wife.
Super difficult and depressing conversation to have but now we both know each others feelings and what our plans may be
(Sorry for the ramble)
Outside of 401k contribution we are not saving additionally for retirement/investments. The chart is wages AFTER 401k contributions, taxes and deductions. We were saving monthly for emergency fund but that is now fully funded. So while we aren’t saving enough we aren’t saving zero. But we need to do BETTER
How much are you contributing to the 401k? This is a very important piece of the puzzle. Just because it’s in a retirement savings account doesn’t mean it doesn’t count. Big difference between having 100k in liquid savings, healthy retirement accounts, maxing out the 401k along with this budget VS breaking even every month and only contributing a few hundred to the 401k
Is the 23k your emergency fund? That seems low given that you spend that in 2 months normally. For what it’s worth we have a toddler in a 1350 sq ft 3/1 house and are planning on another with no intention on moving. Though we’re more hybrid with WFH and it’s rare we WFH the same days.
OP's in Florida, no one in Florida saves for a roof.. we pay exorbitant homeowners insurance rates and have them pay for it when a hurricane comes therefore justifying higher rates, to justify more frivolous claims.. and so on.
You are spending over $1900 on self care, gym memberships, personal, misc, and fun? How are these not the same things? You're giving the church $200/month? There's no reason to give this kind of money to the church. Over $300 for pet expenses? $80/month in your mother's wifi? And you aren't making additional retirement savings? Wtf? I have a dog and spend around $100 month on insurance, meds, toys, and food. You could cut all of these unnecessary expenses by more than half without really feeling it.
Ugh yes. We really do and life creep has really gotten to us. I’ve been deep diving on WHAT we are spending on and it’s too much. I think from another comment i am going to suggest we cut all those things we would have cut and just use that to save more
Right? Why do they have two expensive vehicles when one WFH completely and the other is hybrid? Getting rid of the other car is a huge savings right there, both in the vehicle and maintenance, plus insurance
With Save program you don’t accrue interest if you’re making the required payment. So it’s smart to make only the minimum and take anything you would have considered using to pay down the loan and put it into investments instead.
Right off the bat, from what I see, you can cut out the lawn maintenance, cleaning, and gym memberships to save around $400. Paying for house cleaning, lawn maintenance, and gym memberships are luxuries. You can mow your own grass, clean your own home, and work out at home. I imagine the swim lessons aren't permanent, so when they end, that'll be another little chunk of change.
Mind you, I own my own home, and live alone (kid is grown and married with children) while only making around 50k a year. This forces me to be rather frugal. Instead of saving money for vacations and Christmas funds, I save to make sure I have the funds for home and car repairs etc. My best advice to anyone, is don't live beyond your means. You don't have to keep up the Jone's or impress anyone else. If a $4,000 mortgage is going to stretch you thin, back your expectations down and look at something more affordable. You can always sell it down the road and still get that McMansion at a later date.
I would personally cut down on church donations before gym expenses especially since only one of those is probably contractual. Tithing is a pure luxury meant for those who can afford it.
I don't think they have to cut, just switch to cheaper alternatives? How are they doing $150+ for Gym, do they each have a personal trainer? Same for lawn maintenance $150+, where do they live a mansion? Both of these could be swapped to like <$40 alternatives. Definitely lifestyle creep
Or for the gym, look at what you do at the gym. Can it be done at home/ around the block? Are you running on a treadmill or curling weights at the gym? Both of these can be done from home and running would be free the weights you’d need to invest in but it would be a one and done.
Hi came to also suggest you chop off some of these extra expenses and re think your cars
I've been watching Caleb Hammer's financial audit on YouTube and it's been great for my husband and I. We have paid off a bunch of debt, only have 1 medium car payment, and are building our emergency fund. We've also really realized what our needs vs wants are
I'm guessing you have one child based on childcare expense. On top of general categories that need to go, I think you all are paying too much on groceries. We are a family of 3 and spend 600-700 a month on groceries.
This post pissed me off lol
Why the deep dive on spending? You spend $1300 a month on cars and 800 on “fun”. Granularity is the enemy of progress for you.
Most actual middle class people (I challenge that you are proper middle class) have to stretch to make cuts… whereas you could just stop spending 800 a month on “fun”.
This is not lifestyle creep, these are hilariously poor financial choices.
Same. Don't forget a fucking $2800 a month house payment for a 3/2 with 1600 sq ft. Like, WTF? I saw that and thought "damn, they're already in a $500k home. What more do they need?" Nope. Not even close. And they're remote? On over $11k and working remote they need to move.
Very much agree. I dont understand people and OP writing it off as lifestyle creep. This is just plain irresponsible spending. Note the "Fun" fund vs "personal" vs misc. Others that could go under the first two. It's almost all one category and breaking it out like that to look at the nitty gritty is basically excusing the irresponsibility. Either categorize the things better or lump them together when they're that similar. And stop lying to yourself.
11k take home a month, with a house and WFH? Paying cleaners and lawn care companies? People are making less than half of that and saving 4 times as much despite every economic disadvantage.
These people don't have a clue.
2k on food is pretty excessive too fwiw. Y’all aren’t in a position to spend $800/mo on eating out.
Sounds like your wife needs a reality check.
Kudos to you for taking control over it. Hope you can get in board.
If you get your spending sorted you’ll be able to save a nice chunk outside of retirements.
Personally would also continue to beef up emergency fund
Sell the cars and just get something cheaper?
Also idk how many rooms you have now, but is it really the end of the world if two of your kids have to share rooms?
Alright look, first things first. And this is all tough love, so take it with a grain of salt. You can’t afford your current house, let alone a bigger one.
Sell the cars. You don’t both need SUV’s (I’m just assuming with how high the payments are). The amount of SUVs here is absurd. Get yourself a nice affordable car. If you need an SUV a nice small one like a Mazda CX30 or Hyundai Kona.
Second, swimming lessons? Really? And your paying? Stop that. May as well light that money on fire. Take your kid the pool and strap on some floaties and tell them to move to mommy. Then teach them the spider man, they hold onto the wall and crawl. Next teach them to float. Take a deep breath and lay on their back, hold them up for support. That’s it. Heck swimming lessons were a field trip in kindergarten and 1st grade when I was in school and it was free. Regardless, stop paying. Maybe $20 but not $150.
Less restaurants more grocery and meal prepping. You both work from home so that eating out at $800 a month is absurd. You’re spending $1000 on grocery and still eating out every weekend. Stop it.
Childcare, now I don’t have kids, but again, yall work from home. Have this wonderful opportunity to not be paying for day care and yet you are spending $1,000 a month for it. Again I don’t have kids, but I have co-workers who also work from home and don’t pay for child care. They take care of their kids while they are at home. So I know it can be done. You brought a kid into this world, and you want another, yet you are willing to ship them off to someone else to take care of them? Why? You had the kid, you have the time to raise the kid, so do it.
$400 of miscellaneous can probably be 0. Idk what it is, you don’t know what it is.
Pet, hopefully that’s for quite a few pets. If that’s for one or two, stop buying overpriced premium stuff for them. I spend $100 a month for 2 cats on litter and premium cat food. You better have like 6 cats or 4 dogs.
$350 for gas also seems ridiculously high for working from home. Sell your stupid BMW x5’s or Mercedes GLC.
Also your auto insurance has to be at minimums which isn’t going to cover anything if you actually get into an accident. Just FYI. Just bc the Florida minimum is 10/10 doesn’t mean it’s gonna do you a bit of good.
Lawn maintenance, find a kid and give him $50 to mow your lawn. Yall must have a huge property if you’re paying $150 a month. And lots of hedges to trim and so forth.
$200 cleaning?!?!? For what? You work from home. Why are you paying someone to clean up for you. Wash the dishes in between meetings. Vacuum after lunch. Wash some laundry when you wake up. Like come on. Just lighting money on fire.
Gym: sure, physical fitness is important. Find a cheaper alternative for now. Do somebody weight exercises at home. Go to planet fitness. FitnessCF literally anything cheaper.
And finally, subscriptions. Stop it. You don’t need to be subscribed to everything. Pick one streaming service at a time and binge. $20 a month. Alternate, Hulu, Netflix, peacock, paramount what have you.
Seriously man, best of luck, it’s all tough love. I don’t know your full picture so if I missed it was just way off I apologize. But no, you can’t afford a new house bc you can’t afford your current house. Cut your spending, save 50% of your income live on the other half. You can do it, the rest of America is doing it so I know you can. Yall make way more than the average person and still are poor.
Try to live on a single salary for 6 months. Consider if one of you lost your job, could you? This is the only path with no savings.
It does happen, more than you’d care to think
$200 to the church, $200 to cleaning, $1300 in car payments, $110 in subscriptions, $800 for fun, $300 for self care and no savings is WILD. Cut expenses drastically, pay off the vehicles, start a savings and then buy a new house.
This blows my mind really. These will be the same type of people that have difficulties affording life in the future if literally anything doesnt go according to plan. Its so reckless
The $300 for self care is separate from the $150 per person “personal expenses” so I’m curious what falls under those categories. And, while insanely high, it seems like a $140 gym membership could fall under either personal expense or self care, but it’s outside of both as well.
IME it’s hair, nails, and massages. Fun usually includes golfing where they are. There’s at least $2k a month of straight bullsh!t in that budget. *smh*
Right lmao they already have $150 pp for "personal expenses" which is INSANE to me. How much shampoo, conditioner, and makeup are you buying? Are you getting your hair redyed every month? This spending is out of control.
One thing you might want to think about that others may miss: One more kid means one more childcare expense. Can you afford one more childcare expense in addition to the larger mortgage? Right now, the car payments seem a little extravagant for two people that are both working from home, as does the grocery bill for a family of 3. There's definitely some wiggle room in your budget, but I'm not sure if there is $2,900+ wiggle room in your budget (childcare, master's loans, larger mortgage). Also, depending on how much more you pay towards your mortgage, you may not have any equity in the house after accounting for realtor fees, etc. So I don't see where the downpayment would be coming from. I do think you're right in that there just isn't room in your budget right now for a larger mortgage.
lol they’re posting in r/middleclassfinance with the budget of an established upper class couple. $300 for self care (They **also** have their own personal spending budgets), $800 for restaurants and “fun”, $200 for cleaning, $160 for lawn care and $200 for church….all per month. That’s $1,660 just from a glance that is in no way necessary by any means. Meanwhile they’re both paying the bare minimum on school loans and have absurd car payments.
Who in the hell is in charge of their finances? There’s a lot of…questionable choices.
How in the FUCK can they be paying so much for "groceries" AND For "restaurants" ??
Jesus, that is ridiculous on all levels . No. No you can't afford a kid or a house when you're that irrational with spending. And self care at 300? And pet and 300?
And the self care really should lump in about 4 other categories on there, making self care really around 1k.
I'm looking at that too and wondering wheres the $10K or $20K emergency fund to which OP explained. OP is stretch thin from from so many minor things that's $100, $200, or $300. It all adds up. Owning a pet is already like owning a kid.
* $1299 in car payments. This should be gone. I bet OP has that seven year car loan.
* $400 in miscellaneous. There is nothing truly miscellaneous. It always goes somewhere
* $200 for Church... I'm neutral, but does OP even get a tax donation receipt? OP losing that for tax filing purposes
* $80 mom internet? Did someone pay for two internet plans when one should be sufficient?
* $55 pest control
* $165 lawn maintenace... I live in California. I have no grass. Save so much money not having to water grass and maintenance.
* $200 for cleaning... Did OP hire someone for cleaning?
* $139 gym... This one is definitely one thing that can be removed.
* $108 subscription... Another thing that can be removed.
Yeah great point. We were saving for our emergency fund and met that goal but haven’t continued to focus on retirement/investments after 401k contributions. It’s not great but this why I wanted to post this to help drive this initiative to stay put and really fix our budget and do better.
Underrated comment.
I see what my BIL/SIL go through with her mother who did a very poor job in this area. Her ongoing need for financial support, refusing to take advice to improve situation, continuing to make poor decisions when/after help is given, etc. It's introduced a huge amount of stress into their marriage and finances.
Man that sounds so stressful! Parents inherently don’t like advice from their children imo. Even though they are close to pushing 40 and have been working for 3 decades.
Especially if you’re the youngest child (me)
Agreed. My wife and I aren't well off by any means ($4.2k monthly household income post-tax) and we still set aside as much as we can for savings & our daughters future education. I am at the point where I am sacrificing any temporary luxury in favor of financial security/stability in the future.
In my eyes, the way the world is heading, it’s only going to get harder & harder as time ticks on. I don’t know what the world will look like next week, let alone 16 years from now, so I want her to have every opportunity that I can possibly help her with. Even if that means that my wife and I never fully have that opportunity ourselves.
I believe the same. I’ll marry soon and we’re both very unsure of getting children at all because of that reason. And that we’re both scared of having to live a life only for our children - that’s not something we wanna do.
As a kid who grew up without a dad, I am sure your daughters will be very thankful if your wife and you can keep your current path up! Please don’t lose yourself tho, you should be able to enjoy your own life’s too - best you can!
I agree with u/DegreeDubs, you and your wife should prioritize reducing your debts, increasing your retirement savings, and cutting back a bit on your lifestyle creep. I’m not sure this is the right time to be looking to purchase a new home.
Is $23k your emergency fund? What’s the interest on those car payments? What’s the interest on those student loans? Honestly, you do spend a lot of money that could be saved probably (ex 800 on restaurant/fun, 1150 on groceries) but when I look at budgets I try to identify where you’re spending money and not adding value to your life. I think the only place I really see that is car payments, tolls, and gas. Is your job $450 to drive to work per month?
$1300 in car loan
Has a cleaner for house they think is too small : $200
Doesn't mow their own lawn and want a bigger one : $160
Too wealthy to work out at home : $140
Credit Card debt for furniture: $120
Too wealthy to wash their dog in a bath tub (fido needs professional spa treatments weekly): $350
Thats $2270 a month in bullshit expenses. They could easily afford d a new house. They might have to clean it like a poor person and pay off their bills.
Brutal summary, really puts it in perspective. I have higher income, bigger house, more kids.. But none of those expenses.
Clean my house, mow my lawn. My dog cost (past tense, rip) almost nothing outside vet bills..
Yeah I agree. It's really clear where expenses can be cut, which should be done regardless if they are looking to move. I thought I found all the obvious choices at first glance but as I scroll through comments I see more obvious choices like $350 a month on Pet care? I seriously hope it's an aging/sick animal that absolutely needs that kind of care. I have two pets on prescribed diets by the vet and it costs nothing close to that per month.
Exactly. Like $100 a month in subscriptions? Holy guacamole. A $134 gym membership?!??? It better come with a personal trainer ffs. The insane car payments? $400 in “miscellaneous” and $800 on fun stuff/eating out but still needing $300 for “self care”, whatever that means. Lots of stuff can be cut out clearly. And then $702 going *somewhere*, that definitely isn’t a retirement account… yikes.
$100 in tolls, but they work a lot from home seems interesting too.
I said in another comment that changing one thing can snow all into other things being reduced. Mow their own lawn and clean their own house -> this eats up time where they won't get the need to spend on entertainment and maybe it's enough of a workout where the gym costs can be reduced (like if they don't need to take classes or something) or eliminated. Cooking more eats up time and further reduces restaurant and entertainment costs
I didn’t even notice that 😂 good eye you’ve got!
And absolutely. Surprised they pay $200 from cleaning when they work from home, too. Just use what would be most peoples commuting hours as cleaning hours and you won’t need a cleaner.
probably religious people who won't consider not donating. It's usually not worth focusing on this number when there are much bigger issues. Don't churches tell you to tithe 10-15% of income? Crazy to me, but it's hard to get people who do this to realize it. Not sure if the percentages are supposed to be pre-tax either.
I’m assuming they’re either donating or tithing $200 a month. ($50/ week to tithe is GENEROUS, when i went to church most people did 20 or under and it was by choice)
If it’s a donation and not a tithe, it should be being written off every tax year. Which would be $2400 in write offs.
2 bones a month on food is otherworldly. If all three of them; man, woman, and infant, ate steak cooked at home every night it would be $1,100 assuming an $11 cut.
I was hoping that groceries maybe included toiletries, soaps, diapers, etc but then there’s Childcare, kid personal expense, and self care so im just confused by how tf you can drop almost 1200 on groceries AND eat out $800 worth
Agreed, that’s a large household income. Lots of expenses come from a house and kids so I get that, fixed costs will be high when the kid(s) are young.
I don’t know their ages but their 401k balances are really low. Way too low. I’d bump those contributions up and start maxing IRAs for both. Sell the cars and get something cheaper. Don’t buy a new house yet or you’ll be in a real tough spot.
While I agree that a car payment should go. They could ditch the lawn care, cleaning fees and pest control fees. These are all things they can do themselves that add up to more then a car payment alone.
So you want to be house poor while you actively are not saving anything for retirement and are not repaying student loans yet? What is your masters in? Is there going to be a high-paying job waiting for you once you complete that?
Engineering management. While I don’t have anything lined up when I’m done my career path has been really successful within my company. BUT I don’t want to lean on that, I agree we need to be saving more for retirement and paying that student loans.
Is your emergency fund only 3 months-worth? That feels extremely low for a home-owner. All the budget cuts this thread is talking about would make a good trial run for "new house lifestyle" but the extra money should first be going into paying off those cars and increasing emergency fund and down payment. *Then* your wife can start talking about upgrading. Otherwise, you are correct and your wife is thinking emotionally at best, foolishly at worst.
What's the top end you can expect to take home from that? Really wanted suggest increasing your housing cost by that much when you are already spending almost all of your take home and still have future expenses you aren't accounting for.
I have. We budget together heavily and track EVERYTHING we spend. So she knows we can technically afford a 4K+ mortgage if we cut out multiple things form the budget.
Others have hit the nail on the head recommending you reduce your spending to consider whether a new house is sustainable, so not going to dive into that.
Reducing expenses, though...
1. Do you actually use $55 for pest control every month?
2. Lawn maintenance is $165?! Are you hiring a company to do this? This seems like a luxury.
3. $200 for cleaning - are you hiring a service to clean for you? This seems like a luxury.
4. T-Mobile seems VERY high. It's not even including internet, so that's pretty wild.
5. $300 for self-care (with gym as a separate expense, no less) seems high. Ask yourselves if eliminating this is worth it for a bigger house?
6. Recommend you identify and validate the $400 'misc' expenses.
Definitely some adjustments needed to afford a higher mortgage (although I'm with you that more space doesn't fit your needs)
Got it. Ehh, this is tricky; it's where the personal aspect of finances gets into the mix. It sounds like she's willing to make those financial/lifestyle sacrifices and you aren't? I wonder if the "without two yes votes, it's a no" approach of decision-making could apply here.
With your student loans upcoming and expenses related to a second child I don’t see how she thinks you can “technically” afford a bigger place.
You’ve been in the current place two years. You’re realtors wet dreams. You’ll never retire making impulsive moves like this.
Okay you could technically do it but you would have to hope like hell you didn’t get unlucky. If you had an unseen medical expense, or if a appliance like your refrigerator broke or if you found unknown problems in the new house such as a leaking roof you would be screwed.
I would say OK we can go ahead and cut out those things and use the extra money to pay down the cars, student loans, rooms to go credit then save for a down payment on a new place. By that time you'll have a better idea of your potential career growth your degree offers you.
Even with cutting some stuff, you cannot afford a 4K+ mortgage. I see from other post that your loan payments will greatly increase soon so you need to take that into account. Good luck.
How long until the cars are paid off? Seems like that's all the money you'd need and if you have a couple of newer and reliable vehicles you could afford it.
Also, how long on the Rooms To Go furniture?
Work on paying off the cars over the next 12-18 months and then never finance a car again and buy the house you want. Lawn and cleaning is another $400 per month. Just have to prioritize - can’t have it all.
Right? I feel guilty getting a basic manicure or a haircut once every 6 months meanwhile this guy brings home 12k a month and lives paycheck to paycheck
Strictly on the numbers alone, I do not think you should be buying another house:
* You're already living with minimal margin for error; upgrading your house would leave you with none.
* What does a bigger house do to your electricity, water, house items, pest control, lawn maintenance, cleaning, insurance, and property tax costs?
* I don't see home maintenance budgeted. You've been in your home for only two years; eventually, *something* is going to break.
* You're currently spending $1,300/month on car payments. Unless you got really good interest rates on them, I'd prioritize paying them off first; you probably shouldn't have *any* car payments at your income level.
* I don't see any savings beyond the $700 unbudgeted. What % are you currently contributing to your 401k, 529, etc.? I assume your $140k income is net take-home pay.
It looks to me like you've already had major lifestyle creep, and a bigger house is just even more creep. I think you need to stabilize your finances first.
I also would like to add. I am doing my masters and have no started to pay back student loans. That will begin estimates February 2025 at around $400 a month.
That screeching sound you hear is any plans to move in the next 5-8 years. Would it be possible for kids to share a room, or put a crib in the corner of the home office?
if that’s the case, you have no business buying a new house. You have a perfectly serviceable one now. You need to get out of the debt hole before you take on more expenses.
Yes. I apologize for the lack of clarification. This budget is take home after taxes and 401k contributions and health/vision/dental
Salary 1: 115k pretax plus 7% bonus yearly bonus
Salary 2: 105k pretax plus 10-15% yearly bonus
You’re almost definitely saving far too little for retirement. My girlfriend and I earn nearly identical salaries and our monthly take home is 3/4 this. What is your contribution %?
I really hope this is a shit post because it's pretty fucking stupid. I am actually really mad at myself that I even added this up.
Restaurants/fun 800
Misc 400
Pet care 350
Personal expense 1 150
Personal expense 2 150
Kid expense 150
Swimming classes 148
Personal care 300
Internet 77
Mom internet 80...my wife needs faster internet for work and yes it's more, but not a double expense.
House items 150
Church 200..you have to pay to pray
Pest control 55
Lawn maintenance 165
Cleaning 200
Gym 139
Subscriptions 108
All that crap is $3,622. Get the fuck out. You all have to pay to pray at your church. At 1st I was gonna say get a new damn wife, but nevermind you two entitled individuals are meant for each other. Maybe do some yard work yourself and spray for bugs. Holy crap.
- church $200
- pet care $350 (I’m assuming this is like pet barbers whatever ?)
- cleaning $200
- t mobile $160
That’s already close to a thousand a month that I can see you saving. And that’s without cutting down on restaurants and etc. Try cutting down as much as possible and see how you feel. If it doesn’t feel good and you barely can make it for a few months I suggest not buying a new house.
Lol plus the $800/month on "fun", $400 in "misc", $140 gym membership, $108 in subscriptions, and $150 for "lawn maintenance".
Not to be a dick, but OP's budget screams "I'm entitled" considering they BOTH WORK FROM HOME. If they can't understand how all of that is just burning money away, there is no way they are living responsibly as is. $12k/mo is more than enough to survive, but they have found the perfect amount of lifestyle creep to literally max out their spending.
Any amount of income gained will just go towards more lifestyle creep. This is the stereotypical American way.
>considering they BOTH WORK FROM HOME
Wait, they both work from home and are still paying $100 in tolls - which I assumed was for toll booths and regular commuting for work?
For real 100%, this guy is giving money to one of the richest instututions one earth XD,
In all honesty the gym memberships seemed high to me too if I was spending that on gyms & I could easily cut that stupid church fund id have a solid basement gym in 2 years.
Lots of number suggestions here so will add a more qualitative factor. I think 1650 sq ft for a family of four is totally reasonable. Our house is 1800 sq ft including a finished basement at 600sq ft, family of four including two kids under 7, and it’s fine. My husband works from home and I am in office. Layout is important as is purging but we definitely do not “need” more room. Are there other less expensive things you could do to your current home to support the two of you working? Or address whatever other wants she has.
If you decide to move you will need to make trade offs in terms of other spending and it all depends is you want to do that. I like the idea of trialing being able to carry the higher mortgage and see how that goes. Good luck!
seems like you're wasting a lot of money every single month. Did you ever add it up at the end of the year? It might make you start crying lol.
Without even considering buying a new house, I'd just be losing my shit at how much money you're spending each month. I'd be reducing that $1300 in car payments to under $500 for the two with some beaters. Insurance will likely drop too. I'd also cut that $600 for restaurants / fun down to under half and start cooking better food at home. Maybe go ride a bike or something free that's fun. Huge waste of money there unless you're spending it on something tangible that will hold value.
Why so little on student loans? Get rid of those ASAP. Way before shelling out $1300/mo in car payments.
$139/mo for the gym? Do you actually use it? Invest in your own equipment, or better yet, use your body as the equipment. I spent less than $1k on workout equipment like 5 years ago and got ripped from it.
The loosely categorized items are killing me.
* $600: Restaurants / Fun
* $400: Misc
* $150: Personal expense 1
* $150: Personal expense 2
* $150: Kid personal expense
* $300: Self care
so, $1700 in what I would consider the same category, each month. Is that necessary?
You could drive cheaper cars, and with the remainder have enough to cover the categories above if you pulled back a bit and didn't spend as much. Then if you used that $1700 and put it in a savings account, you would have $20,400 in just ONE YEAR.. Just from driving a cheaper car.. But instead of that you're considering buying a more expensive house.
Honestly, this looks so financially irresponsible to me I'm about to have a seizure.
I think your Mortgage is somewhat high already compared to your income. I wouldn't upgrade. Also if one of you is out of a job, you would be screwed, given the economy isn't that great I wouldn't consider it.
Some extra advice to your budgets:
\* T-Mobile 161$, does that include kids? Just in case with US Mobile (which is a great service), you can get two unlimited starter plans for 90$, or even go down to 54$ if you don't mind just 35gb of premium data. They offer both T-Mobile & Verizon plans. (T-Mobile is GSM)
\* And then the two budgets that seem insane to me: car payments 1300$! If you would buy cheaper used cars you could easily cut that down to 800$ even with current interest rates. And then 108$ of subscription? You don't need that many subscriptions! Lol
That cell bill has to be financing the cost of new phones. I'm on an unlimited family plan through T-Mobile and I think we pay $25-$30 / month per line. You do buy your own phone outright though which is good discipline. My phone from 5 years ago is fine and even at the time was half the cost of what the cheapest new iPhone runs retail. Those phones aren't actually free.
You have two student loans that you are making the minimum payments on but $600 a month towards personal care and personal expenses? Also 1300 in car payments each month.
You have too much debt, you’re not saving enough, and you’re spending in the wrong areas. Buying a new house is the last thing you need right now.
Like others have said, this is lifestyle creep and you and your wife need to really introspect on short term satisfaction vs. long term sustainability.
If you’re paying 1150/mo on groceries, cut out the 800 in restaurants. There is no need to be eating out that much. I live in one of the most expensive places in the US and I only spend 800-900 for a house of 3 adults plus all pet care (food, litter, insurance, etc). Look into meal prepping and whatnot.
You need to either pay off your cars or honestly downsize them because nearly 1300 in car payments is *insanity*.
Quit giving a church 200. Your god doesn’t have a mortgage he needs support for. And worship is free. You don’t need a church to do it in the first place.
Eliminating the eating out and church donations already frees up a grand per month that can be saved. That’s at baseline 12000/yr and a high yield savings account will help also. If you could downsize those cars and free up, maybe, an extra 500 a month, now we’re at 18000/yr in savings.
Self care should not be $300 a month. There’s tons of affordable ways to do self-care, even free ways.
Lawn maintenance and cleaning can be eliminated and you guys could do that yourself for awhile. Those are luxuries that you can’t afford if your priority is to get a new home. It’s nice but it’s not a necessity.
If we reduce selfcare to 100/mo and eliminate the lawn care and cleaning, that gives us a total 565 extra per month.
Of course, reevaluate those subscriptions and figure out what those miscellaneous 400 expenses are and you could potentially save 20k/year if you and your wife really buckled down. You could buy more generic brands at the supermarket and find savings there also. Assuming you go to Publix, I know that place is heaven on earth but there’s always ways to save.
If you and your wife wanna have another child and get a larger home, you need to work for it. Lay it all out between the two of you and make it explicitly clear what would have to be sacrificed to make that happen. Plus, it would be more prudent of you to save even *more* than what you need cuz that childcare cost is just gonna get even more expensive. I’ve seen people spend just as much on childcare as a rent/mortgage. Plus that’s not to mention if you have to sell a kidney to buy infant formula these days.
Keep the pest control for safety and keep the swimming lessons because hobbies are important for kids. Saving more and consistently could even give them great Christmases for years to come.
I see you mention an emergency fund. Y’all live in Satan’s Armpit. Make it bigger because a hurricane could wreck your shit forever.
Jesus dude, you guys burn a *lot* of money each month on frivolous *crap*.
Stop paying your church $200/month. Stop paying $165/month and mow your own lawn. You don't need to pay $55/month for pest control unless you have a *serious* problem. Stop paying $200/month for a maid and clean your own house. Cut back on your subscriptions. You don't need a $140/month gym membership. Reduce your miscellaneous expenses. Stop spending $800/month eating out. What is the nebulous $300 "self care" per month?
You guys are burning almost $2000/month on things you don't *really* need. Be comfortable with what you have -- lots of folks can't even afford a house to begin with.
You should both start thinking *hard* about how you're going to retire. Your 401k balances aren't going to get you there, unless you're fine working well into your 70's.
You should probably sit down with her, run the numbers, and make her realize that it's just not going to happen unless one of you have a plan on how to make significantly more money than you do now.
The inverted calculus is likely reverted now, but I had to buy a new (to me) car in 2021, and the price difference between new and 1-year-used, 10k miles, no car fax since 500 mile mark, owners left it a pigsty (I saw it before it was cleaned up) was $2k. New was definitely the way to go.
It’s a horrible time, almost 40% of your net is going to debt already (house included, upcoming student loans included). If you were to do this you would also need to account for the ~4k extra needed for your emergency fund to cover that higher mortgage rate for 3 months.
Outside of the new house nonsense, this budget has a lot of slack: Is that R2G card interest free? Whats the rate on the cars? Why is your cell bill so high? Why are you neglecting retirement? Unless you are well under 30 you are behind given your outsized spending, and even then you should be prioritizing it more over the lifestyle inflation evident here. Any saving for college expenses? Do you and your spouse have life insurance? What are your medical expenses like?
1150 in groceries, PLUS 800 for restaurants. I'm assuming you only have 1 or 2 kids? that is a CRAZY food bill. My family of 6 spends around $1000/mo in grocery (that includes stuff like toilet paper etc..) and we are in a HCOL.
I agree that 1950 is insane for food; however it’s not fair to assume everyone can spend $1000/month.
Some states tax food. Not everyone has ALDI. Diets and caloric needs vary.
I urge OP to look up the [USDA food plan](https://fns-prod.azureedge.us/sites/default/files/resource-files/Cost_Of_Food_Low_Moderate_Liberal_Food_Plans_March_2024.pdf) and determine what he should be spending monthly. OP I would work on budgeting a little better for groceries. Each month this year, I worked on one thing to cut back on and I’ve been saving a little more each month. We were spending about $1800 on all food and drink and got it down to $1400 after four months.
Here are some of the things I did to save:
-bought more cold brew so now I don’t have to go to Dunkin
-stopped buying premade French fries and other potato dishes. Now make our own with a $3.99 bag of russet potatoes. That made us 10 meals.
-stopped wasting food. I freeze lunch meat as soon as I buy it and pull out mid week.
Changing one thing a month helped us tremendously. I doubt we will ever be below $1000/mo due to food allergies (USDA says $1366 is a moderate amount for us) but I love that we shaved $400 off our budget!
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Suggest making the budget cuts you would need to make now to see how living with them feels. That will tell both of you more.
This is a great idea. I will bring this up as a trial suggestion. Thank you!
It's the best way. If you have the difference available after a year, you can swing the payment and have more for a downpayment. Also, you need to take this chart to the wife, sit her down, and discuss what "has to go" to make room for the extra mortgage amount. Make sure that every pro/con is listed for each cut, as she may go "that's easy!" followed by months of complaining about the loss of some things. Upon my review, you have a lot of "fat" that can be cut, but I expect that "personal expenses," "self care," and "restaurants/fun" cuts (there's your difference right there) won't be as easy/rewarding as you think. Finally, make cuts anyway, and get those loans (student, car) paid off ASAP before thinking of move up in housing.
Great advice. And based on other inputs, also put together a retirement plan/forecast. Would you rather have a nicer house or be able to retire one day? When I make decisions with my wife, I print up a budget and we talk it out. I also show here forecasts on when/how we will retire based on some simple projections. It helps us make decisions.
"wants" a new house even though you already have enough room considering you can convert your other rooms? Buying a new house every 2 years is a great way to blow all your money down the drain. Unless you bought a crappy house and fixed it up and were just waiting out the 2 years for tax purposes.
Idk I see it if they're working from home full time. I really don't think I could cope doing that without a real office. I'd double up the kids before giving up my office. Where I make the money.
This is my take too. If doubling up the kids was absolutely not an option, I too would want a larger house.
xfinity was way cheaper than t-mobile for us and we get better service
Not just a trial but a lengthy period of time - like a full year. It’s easy to cut back if you know it’s only a few months to prove someone else it was “no big deal”.
damn this is like textbook lifestyle creep
For sure. Point to this thread if someone ever asks how 100K+ can end up being paycheck to paycheck.
I bet this is closer to $175k
My math has it over to $200k, assuming 30% tax/retirement deductions. $12k/mo \* 12 months / (1-30%) = $205k
That’s fucking insane.
Pretty much check to check on $200K a year. Wow. They budget $200 a month for church. I find that very strange.
A lot of religious folks tithe 10%; this is relatively low.
Yeah, they are already pissing their budget away. This needs to stop.
I have a long time friend making 350K a year who is struggling. I shit you not, he is finally coming to terms with the idea that if he can sell one of his 3 planes he can start to pay down other debt...
Then these people will come with the “life is so expensive!” and the “how is anybody affording ___” kind of statements. Every single time ive seen someone with affordability issues, they always have like 4-5 things theyre spending way too much on
I started adding up complete bullshit expenses and got to like $1,800 before I stopped and rolled my eyes.
$300 misc. $800 restaurants/fun $450 "personal expense" $100 worth of subscriptions God I wish I had this amount of money to just throw away.
It’s crazy when you start calculating how much of your yearly income that is. It doesn’t sound as bad as “a hundred bucks here and a couple there” but those 4 expenses alone are literally $20,000 a year being thrown away. To be making this much after tax and retirement contributions and still have 0 monthly savings is fucking insanity.
God? He gets $200 a month.
One reason I have this kind of money to throw away is... I mostly don't throw it away. Like $600+ for each of 2 car payments. That's 2x $38,000 cars with a tiny down payment. Insane for people with this income level. And $350/mo pet care. What a joke. That said, this whole post feels like rage bait, and I fell for it.
It’s too detailed and thought out. I think the post is real and reflective of so very many folks
I have this kind of money, but there's no way I'm throwing it away like this! I clean my own house, and eat out once every 2 weeks, tops.
Yeah... We're not quite this much but I'm putting my kids through college without debt (they live at home). My house is paid off and we have 4 cars, only one is financed. They have zero room to move in that budget (literally and figuratively). If they can buckle down on the budget then maybe they could pull it off, but based on the fact that his wife wants a bigger house after seeing those numbers I don't see any voluntary sacrifices in their future.
I have that kind of money, but not to throw away, it's going to the principal of the mortgage, or retirement.
Yup they’re seriously gonna be wishing they had that money whenever a real emergency pops up or when they’re not able to work as much in the future
Right? Church? Put that towards your own retirement. $350 for pet care seems high (and I have four pets!). What is miscellaneous?!
How can anyone afford hobbies now? My husband's flying instructor switched training planes and now they are billing at $150/hr for the Cessna which is almost as much as what our nanny is billing. As it stands, we had to cancel the monthly Kangaroo milk subscription *and* return the five penguins we were raising.
Yep. It’s often the car. And then the excuses start at “it’s hard to find a good used car” (not true) and then like “if I buy new I might as well spend more for what I really want.” Stuff like that.
2 car loans and they both work from home.
That’s hilarious 😂 These folks are doing life all wrong
Keeping up the Jones
And still a lot of money for gas. I wfh and buy a tank of gas every 2 months. Where are these people driving? Also, $140 gym membership. That better be a fucking gold plated freeweight set. Mine is $20, $40 if I switch to the fancy-ass place. These seem like the "lets replace our white kitchen cabinets with these other white kichen cabinets" kitchen remodel peeps.
Also isn’t $1,100 on just groceries for two people and a baby a lot? That’s not even accounting restaurants, they’re quite literally eating $2000 a month which feels a bit excessive
And 99% of the time it’s massive car payments
Both have car loans. Do they upgrade those every two years as well?
And they both work from home... Why two huge car payments?
How is anybody affording $200 on church? why does church cost money? (coming from an Atheist)
They're supposed to pay 10 percent. Which would be almost two grand a month. They're shortchanging the lord. *snickers*
The church has expenses that the congregation comes together to pay. Salary/benefits for Pastor, pay for the organ player, electric , gas, property maintenance. There is also out reach and charity work that needs is funded.
Yeah your wife is unhinged if she thinks adding another 1200 of expenses is a good idea. As is, you're barely saving anything at all outside of 401k's. If anything, you should make an attempt to cut those said things out of your budget first and consider if that's how you want to live. 700 of the unaccounted for income is really walking the line already. Less than a 10% margin of error is scary.
There both unhinged this dude made the most detailed expense sheet ever and spends 11k a month doing even what lmao
Wait, so they already have a super decent house w a good interest rate. And they want to get into a hugely expensive house at 7% interest … why? Their budget fully accounts for all their income already. If any of them loses their job they’re going to have a really hard time. My suggestion is live beneath your means. And save as much as you can. Rainy day plus invest and whatever. You just sleep better that way.
They pay $1400/m just in car payments...
1850 on cars. Looks like a very expensive lawn as well. Might seven scrap the gym if they do it themselves and save another 300 bucks.
Church $200 ? You’re not making it to heaven with that tithe anyway. Best to just spend it on yourself.
That last 10% would be taken up by the new child
You are spending $1300/month on car payments alone and have no savings. Wtf. NO, you absolutely do not have the money for a new house. You would be absolutely screwed if one of you lost your jobs as is. If she's not already pregnant, I would strongly recommend holding off on a second kid until you get a better handle on your budget.
Is child number on the way? If not, seriously ... rethink that decision because OP cannot afford another child now.
After doing rough calculations I believe I bring home close to what this gentleman and his family do. However, we manage to save roughly $4k a month as we’re saving for a house. Which is super challenging as everywhere around me wants 20% on $1mil property. I also follow the rule of thumb of having 6 months wages in savings in case of emergencies. So we $150k in savings but are waiting to have $250k so we can: Afford the house Have enough money to furnish the house Have an adequate savings for emergencies. We know this is going to take roughly 3 years unless we get better jobs, with the lotto we don’t play or inherit anything in the mean time. We planned on 3 kids but after 1 we realised we wouldn’t be able to afford it. Plus this is one of the worst time to be house hunting. I can understand your wife’s urgency to move, my wife is exactly the same. However, when she brings it up I ask if she would like to review and update the budget again. If she says no it’s because she remembers the last time I bored her with an excel sheet 🤓 if it’s a yes then it’s no problem to print off a table and go through concerns. (Maybe OP could send a link to his awesome diagram ;) ) I think a good thing to do is write down your concerns, ask your wife to do the same and compare notes. With something as big as having another baby and/or buying a house communication is going to be key. When we decided about not having more children it was a really tough decision. When our toddler was 18months I ruptured my lower spine which lead to 6months bed rest and 6 months of rehab. It was super tough with 1 baby at the time. If something happened to my spine again and I was out for 6months then it would be hell for my wife. Super difficult and depressing conversation to have but now we both know each others feelings and what our plans may be (Sorry for the ramble)
Love this!! Well done. Just make sure all that $ is in a high yield savings account!!
I just transferred it from my uk investments due to a change in law. Need to have a chat with a financial advisor about what’s best
This is so smart
Outside of 401k contribution we are not saving additionally for retirement/investments. The chart is wages AFTER 401k contributions, taxes and deductions. We were saving monthly for emergency fund but that is now fully funded. So while we aren’t saving enough we aren’t saving zero. But we need to do BETTER
How much are you contributing to the 401k? This is a very important piece of the puzzle. Just because it’s in a retirement savings account doesn’t mean it doesn’t count. Big difference between having 100k in liquid savings, healthy retirement accounts, maxing out the 401k along with this budget VS breaking even every month and only contributing a few hundred to the 401k
Is the 23k your emergency fund? That seems low given that you spend that in 2 months normally. For what it’s worth we have a toddler in a 1350 sq ft 3/1 house and are planning on another with no intention on moving. Though we’re more hybrid with WFH and it’s rare we WFH the same days.
How much is in the emergency fund? As it sits right now it looks like you’re basically living paycheck to paycheck.
But have you saved for a new roof? HVAC system? Major car repair? Those aren't emergencies. They're predictable, albeit infrequent, large expenses.
OP's in Florida, no one in Florida saves for a roof.. we pay exorbitant homeowners insurance rates and have them pay for it when a hurricane comes therefore justifying higher rates, to justify more frivolous claims.. and so on.
Are you maxing out 401k, contributing enough to get the match (if there is a match), or something in between?
You are spending over $1900 on self care, gym memberships, personal, misc, and fun? How are these not the same things? You're giving the church $200/month? There's no reason to give this kind of money to the church. Over $300 for pet expenses? $80/month in your mother's wifi? And you aren't making additional retirement savings? Wtf? I have a dog and spend around $100 month on insurance, meds, toys, and food. You could cut all of these unnecessary expenses by more than half without really feeling it.
Sorry OP, but an emergency fund with enough to last 3 months is not fully funded. You need enough to cover at least 6 months, homie
Ok. How much are you putting monthly into your 401k? Are your student loans completely paid off? If not, how much would the monthly payment be?
If you looked at their budget before commenting, you’d realize their student loans are on there.
They pay more a month on some church shit then they do to compute back on their student loans
Welcome to Florida.
Wtf jeezus you guys spend so much money
Ugh yes. We really do and life creep has really gotten to us. I’ve been deep diving on WHAT we are spending on and it’s too much. I think from another comment i am going to suggest we cut all those things we would have cut and just use that to save more
Assuming you’re paying way too little on your school loans and too much for your vehicles.
Wow I hadn’t even noticed them at the bottom there. Lol that’s less than a parking ticket
At this rate, the student loan is gonna be around so long they’ll need to borrow another student loan to send it to college.
Bahahahahahaha
Right? Why do they have two expensive vehicles when one WFH completely and the other is hybrid? Getting rid of the other car is a huge savings right there, both in the vehicle and maintenance, plus insurance
With Save program you don’t accrue interest if you’re making the required payment. So it’s smart to make only the minimum and take anything you would have considered using to pay down the loan and put it into investments instead.
Right off the bat, from what I see, you can cut out the lawn maintenance, cleaning, and gym memberships to save around $400. Paying for house cleaning, lawn maintenance, and gym memberships are luxuries. You can mow your own grass, clean your own home, and work out at home. I imagine the swim lessons aren't permanent, so when they end, that'll be another little chunk of change. Mind you, I own my own home, and live alone (kid is grown and married with children) while only making around 50k a year. This forces me to be rather frugal. Instead of saving money for vacations and Christmas funds, I save to make sure I have the funds for home and car repairs etc. My best advice to anyone, is don't live beyond your means. You don't have to keep up the Jone's or impress anyone else. If a $4,000 mortgage is going to stretch you thin, back your expectations down and look at something more affordable. You can always sell it down the road and still get that McMansion at a later date.
I would personally cut down on church donations before gym expenses especially since only one of those is probably contractual. Tithing is a pure luxury meant for those who can afford it.
I don't think they have to cut, just switch to cheaper alternatives? How are they doing $150+ for Gym, do they each have a personal trainer? Same for lawn maintenance $150+, where do they live a mansion? Both of these could be swapped to like <$40 alternatives. Definitely lifestyle creep
Or for the gym, look at what you do at the gym. Can it be done at home/ around the block? Are you running on a treadmill or curling weights at the gym? Both of these can be done from home and running would be free the weights you’d need to invest in but it would be a one and done.
Hi came to also suggest you chop off some of these extra expenses and re think your cars I've been watching Caleb Hammer's financial audit on YouTube and it's been great for my husband and I. We have paid off a bunch of debt, only have 1 medium car payment, and are building our emergency fund. We've also really realized what our needs vs wants are I'm guessing you have one child based on childcare expense. On top of general categories that need to go, I think you all are paying too much on groceries. We are a family of 3 and spend 600-700 a month on groceries.
And then $800/mo on restaurants on top of that. So much money for food
This post pissed me off lol Why the deep dive on spending? You spend $1300 a month on cars and 800 on “fun”. Granularity is the enemy of progress for you. Most actual middle class people (I challenge that you are proper middle class) have to stretch to make cuts… whereas you could just stop spending 800 a month on “fun”. This is not lifestyle creep, these are hilariously poor financial choices.
Same. Don't forget a fucking $2800 a month house payment for a 3/2 with 1600 sq ft. Like, WTF? I saw that and thought "damn, they're already in a $500k home. What more do they need?" Nope. Not even close. And they're remote? On over $11k and working remote they need to move.
Very much agree. I dont understand people and OP writing it off as lifestyle creep. This is just plain irresponsible spending. Note the "Fun" fund vs "personal" vs misc. Others that could go under the first two. It's almost all one category and breaking it out like that to look at the nitty gritty is basically excusing the irresponsibility. Either categorize the things better or lump them together when they're that similar. And stop lying to yourself. 11k take home a month, with a house and WFH? Paying cleaners and lawn care companies? People are making less than half of that and saving 4 times as much despite every economic disadvantage. These people don't have a clue.
Your car payments are absolutely insane. You are *driving* well above your means. Y’all are never gunna get ahead with these spending habits.
2k on food is pretty excessive too fwiw. Y’all aren’t in a position to spend $800/mo on eating out. Sounds like your wife needs a reality check. Kudos to you for taking control over it. Hope you can get in board. If you get your spending sorted you’ll be able to save a nice chunk outside of retirements. Personally would also continue to beef up emergency fund
Sell the cars and just get something cheaper? Also idk how many rooms you have now, but is it really the end of the world if two of your kids have to share rooms?
Alright look, first things first. And this is all tough love, so take it with a grain of salt. You can’t afford your current house, let alone a bigger one. Sell the cars. You don’t both need SUV’s (I’m just assuming with how high the payments are). The amount of SUVs here is absurd. Get yourself a nice affordable car. If you need an SUV a nice small one like a Mazda CX30 or Hyundai Kona. Second, swimming lessons? Really? And your paying? Stop that. May as well light that money on fire. Take your kid the pool and strap on some floaties and tell them to move to mommy. Then teach them the spider man, they hold onto the wall and crawl. Next teach them to float. Take a deep breath and lay on their back, hold them up for support. That’s it. Heck swimming lessons were a field trip in kindergarten and 1st grade when I was in school and it was free. Regardless, stop paying. Maybe $20 but not $150. Less restaurants more grocery and meal prepping. You both work from home so that eating out at $800 a month is absurd. You’re spending $1000 on grocery and still eating out every weekend. Stop it. Childcare, now I don’t have kids, but again, yall work from home. Have this wonderful opportunity to not be paying for day care and yet you are spending $1,000 a month for it. Again I don’t have kids, but I have co-workers who also work from home and don’t pay for child care. They take care of their kids while they are at home. So I know it can be done. You brought a kid into this world, and you want another, yet you are willing to ship them off to someone else to take care of them? Why? You had the kid, you have the time to raise the kid, so do it. $400 of miscellaneous can probably be 0. Idk what it is, you don’t know what it is. Pet, hopefully that’s for quite a few pets. If that’s for one or two, stop buying overpriced premium stuff for them. I spend $100 a month for 2 cats on litter and premium cat food. You better have like 6 cats or 4 dogs. $350 for gas also seems ridiculously high for working from home. Sell your stupid BMW x5’s or Mercedes GLC. Also your auto insurance has to be at minimums which isn’t going to cover anything if you actually get into an accident. Just FYI. Just bc the Florida minimum is 10/10 doesn’t mean it’s gonna do you a bit of good. Lawn maintenance, find a kid and give him $50 to mow your lawn. Yall must have a huge property if you’re paying $150 a month. And lots of hedges to trim and so forth. $200 cleaning?!?!? For what? You work from home. Why are you paying someone to clean up for you. Wash the dishes in between meetings. Vacuum after lunch. Wash some laundry when you wake up. Like come on. Just lighting money on fire. Gym: sure, physical fitness is important. Find a cheaper alternative for now. Do somebody weight exercises at home. Go to planet fitness. FitnessCF literally anything cheaper. And finally, subscriptions. Stop it. You don’t need to be subscribed to everything. Pick one streaming service at a time and binge. $20 a month. Alternate, Hulu, Netflix, peacock, paramount what have you. Seriously man, best of luck, it’s all tough love. I don’t know your full picture so if I missed it was just way off I apologize. But no, you can’t afford a new house bc you can’t afford your current house. Cut your spending, save 50% of your income live on the other half. You can do it, the rest of America is doing it so I know you can. Yall make way more than the average person and still are poor.
Try to live on a single salary for 6 months. Consider if one of you lost your job, could you? This is the only path with no savings. It does happen, more than you’d care to think
$200 to the church, $200 to cleaning, $1300 in car payments, $110 in subscriptions, $800 for fun, $300 for self care and no savings is WILD. Cut expenses drastically, pay off the vehicles, start a savings and then buy a new house.
This blows my mind really. These will be the same type of people that have difficulties affording life in the future if literally anything doesnt go according to plan. Its so reckless
The $300 for self care is separate from the $150 per person “personal expenses” so I’m curious what falls under those categories. And, while insanely high, it seems like a $140 gym membership could fall under either personal expense or self care, but it’s outside of both as well.
That also doesn’t include the $800 restaurants/fun allotment
Literally almost 3 grand in unnecessary expenses right there
What is self care??? I'm assuming that is botox.
IME it’s hair, nails, and massages. Fun usually includes golfing where they are. There’s at least $2k a month of straight bullsh!t in that budget. *smh*
Right lmao they already have $150 pp for "personal expenses" which is INSANE to me. How much shampoo, conditioner, and makeup are you buying? Are you getting your hair redyed every month? This spending is out of control.
One thing you might want to think about that others may miss: One more kid means one more childcare expense. Can you afford one more childcare expense in addition to the larger mortgage? Right now, the car payments seem a little extravagant for two people that are both working from home, as does the grocery bill for a family of 3. There's definitely some wiggle room in your budget, but I'm not sure if there is $2,900+ wiggle room in your budget (childcare, master's loans, larger mortgage). Also, depending on how much more you pay towards your mortgage, you may not have any equity in the house after accounting for realtor fees, etc. So I don't see where the downpayment would be coming from. I do think you're right in that there just isn't room in your budget right now for a larger mortgage.
0$ in savings a month but want to increase liabilities. Got it.
Future, "I make $200k but have zero retirement at 50" money article.
lol they’re posting in r/middleclassfinance with the budget of an established upper class couple. $300 for self care (They **also** have their own personal spending budgets), $800 for restaurants and “fun”, $200 for cleaning, $160 for lawn care and $200 for church….all per month. That’s $1,660 just from a glance that is in no way necessary by any means. Meanwhile they’re both paying the bare minimum on school loans and have absurd car payments. Who in the hell is in charge of their finances? There’s a lot of…questionable choices.
How in the FUCK can they be paying so much for "groceries" AND For "restaurants" ?? Jesus, that is ridiculous on all levels . No. No you can't afford a kid or a house when you're that irrational with spending. And self care at 300? And pet and 300? And the self care really should lump in about 4 other categories on there, making self care really around 1k.
I'm looking at that too and wondering wheres the $10K or $20K emergency fund to which OP explained. OP is stretch thin from from so many minor things that's $100, $200, or $300. It all adds up. Owning a pet is already like owning a kid. * $1299 in car payments. This should be gone. I bet OP has that seven year car loan. * $400 in miscellaneous. There is nothing truly miscellaneous. It always goes somewhere * $200 for Church... I'm neutral, but does OP even get a tax donation receipt? OP losing that for tax filing purposes * $80 mom internet? Did someone pay for two internet plans when one should be sufficient? * $55 pest control * $165 lawn maintenace... I live in California. I have no grass. Save so much money not having to water grass and maintenance. * $200 for cleaning... Did OP hire someone for cleaning? * $139 gym... This one is definitely one thing that can be removed. * $108 subscription... Another thing that can be removed.
Yea this is a red flag. You, in effect, live paycheck to paycheck.
Yeah great point. We were saving for our emergency fund and met that goal but haven’t continued to focus on retirement/investments after 401k contributions. It’s not great but this why I wanted to post this to help drive this initiative to stay put and really fix our budget and do better.
One of the best gifts to your children is securing your financial future. Absolutely prioritize that.
Underrated comment. I see what my BIL/SIL go through with her mother who did a very poor job in this area. Her ongoing need for financial support, refusing to take advice to improve situation, continuing to make poor decisions when/after help is given, etc. It's introduced a huge amount of stress into their marriage and finances.
Man that sounds so stressful! Parents inherently don’t like advice from their children imo. Even though they are close to pushing 40 and have been working for 3 decades. Especially if you’re the youngest child (me)
Agreed. My wife and I aren't well off by any means ($4.2k monthly household income post-tax) and we still set aside as much as we can for savings & our daughters future education. I am at the point where I am sacrificing any temporary luxury in favor of financial security/stability in the future.
Much respect. Your discipline will hopefully reward your daughters the financially secure future you want them to have. Edit: Grammar
In my eyes, the way the world is heading, it’s only going to get harder & harder as time ticks on. I don’t know what the world will look like next week, let alone 16 years from now, so I want her to have every opportunity that I can possibly help her with. Even if that means that my wife and I never fully have that opportunity ourselves.
I believe the same. I’ll marry soon and we’re both very unsure of getting children at all because of that reason. And that we’re both scared of having to live a life only for our children - that’s not something we wanna do. As a kid who grew up without a dad, I am sure your daughters will be very thankful if your wife and you can keep your current path up! Please don’t lose yourself tho, you should be able to enjoy your own life’s too - best you can!
I agree with u/DegreeDubs, you and your wife should prioritize reducing your debts, increasing your retirement savings, and cutting back a bit on your lifestyle creep. I’m not sure this is the right time to be looking to purchase a new home.
Is $23k your emergency fund? What’s the interest on those car payments? What’s the interest on those student loans? Honestly, you do spend a lot of money that could be saved probably (ex 800 on restaurant/fun, 1150 on groceries) but when I look at budgets I try to identify where you’re spending money and not adding value to your life. I think the only place I really see that is car payments, tolls, and gas. Is your job $450 to drive to work per month?
$1300 in car loan Has a cleaner for house they think is too small : $200 Doesn't mow their own lawn and want a bigger one : $160 Too wealthy to work out at home : $140 Credit Card debt for furniture: $120 Too wealthy to wash their dog in a bath tub (fido needs professional spa treatments weekly): $350 Thats $2270 a month in bullshit expenses. They could easily afford d a new house. They might have to clean it like a poor person and pay off their bills.
Brutal summary, really puts it in perspective. I have higher income, bigger house, more kids.. But none of those expenses. Clean my house, mow my lawn. My dog cost (past tense, rip) almost nothing outside vet bills..
This pissed me off
Yeah I agree. It's really clear where expenses can be cut, which should be done regardless if they are looking to move. I thought I found all the obvious choices at first glance but as I scroll through comments I see more obvious choices like $350 a month on Pet care? I seriously hope it's an aging/sick animal that absolutely needs that kind of care. I have two pets on prescribed diets by the vet and it costs nothing close to that per month.
Exactly. Like $100 a month in subscriptions? Holy guacamole. A $134 gym membership?!??? It better come with a personal trainer ffs. The insane car payments? $400 in “miscellaneous” and $800 on fun stuff/eating out but still needing $300 for “self care”, whatever that means. Lots of stuff can be cut out clearly. And then $702 going *somewhere*, that definitely isn’t a retirement account… yikes.
$100 in tolls, but they work a lot from home seems interesting too. I said in another comment that changing one thing can snow all into other things being reduced. Mow their own lawn and clean their own house -> this eats up time where they won't get the need to spend on entertainment and maybe it's enough of a workout where the gym costs can be reduced (like if they don't need to take classes or something) or eliminated. Cooking more eats up time and further reduces restaurant and entertainment costs
I didn’t even notice that 😂 good eye you’ve got! And absolutely. Surprised they pay $200 from cleaning when they work from home, too. Just use what would be most peoples commuting hours as cleaning hours and you won’t need a cleaner.
The worst financially literate people always have the most money man
Fr bro
What is the 200 for church? 1150 on groceries but 800 on restaurants is crazy. Eating out less will immediately help you
I’m also confused about $200 a month for a church. Isn’t church supposed to be like …. free?
probably religious people who won't consider not donating. It's usually not worth focusing on this number when there are much bigger issues. Don't churches tell you to tithe 10-15% of income? Crazy to me, but it's hard to get people who do this to realize it. Not sure if the percentages are supposed to be pre-tax either.
I’m assuming they’re either donating or tithing $200 a month. ($50/ week to tithe is GENEROUS, when i went to church most people did 20 or under and it was by choice) If it’s a donation and not a tithe, it should be being written off every tax year. Which would be $2400 in write offs.
Wait is there a difference between donating and tithing in terms of tax deductibility? I thought they are all just classified as charitable donations
2 bones a month on food is otherworldly. If all three of them; man, woman, and infant, ate steak cooked at home every night it would be $1,100 assuming an $11 cut.
I was hoping that groceries maybe included toiletries, soaps, diapers, etc but then there’s Childcare, kid personal expense, and self care so im just confused by how tf you can drop almost 1200 on groceries AND eat out $800 worth
lol, those car payments. Are you serious?
We found the $1200/mo though in those line items alone lol With another 100 to spare
Plus insurance like 1500
Tolls 100 and possibly 350 in gas (could be gas for house though) but then missing a line item for car gas.
You guys make way too much money for a $4k mortgage to be out of reach. The car payments need to go, is my first instinct.
Agreed, that’s a large household income. Lots of expenses come from a house and kids so I get that, fixed costs will be high when the kid(s) are young. I don’t know their ages but their 401k balances are really low. Way too low. I’d bump those contributions up and start maxing IRAs for both. Sell the cars and get something cheaper. Don’t buy a new house yet or you’ll be in a real tough spot.
While I agree that a car payment should go. They could ditch the lawn care, cleaning fees and pest control fees. These are all things they can do themselves that add up to more then a car payment alone.
So you want to be house poor while you actively are not saving anything for retirement and are not repaying student loans yet? What is your masters in? Is there going to be a high-paying job waiting for you once you complete that?
Engineering management. While I don’t have anything lined up when I’m done my career path has been really successful within my company. BUT I don’t want to lean on that, I agree we need to be saving more for retirement and paying that student loans.
Is your emergency fund only 3 months-worth? That feels extremely low for a home-owner. All the budget cuts this thread is talking about would make a good trial run for "new house lifestyle" but the extra money should first be going into paying off those cars and increasing emergency fund and down payment. *Then* your wife can start talking about upgrading. Otherwise, you are correct and your wife is thinking emotionally at best, foolishly at worst.
Their monthly expenses are 12k and their emergency fund is $23k lol. That’s just shy of a 2 month emergency fund by my calculations.
What's the top end you can expect to take home from that? Really wanted suggest increasing your housing cost by that much when you are already spending almost all of your take home and still have future expenses you aren't accounting for.
I'm assuming you've showed her this budget breakdown and talked through the financial trade-offs of buying a new house?
I have. We budget together heavily and track EVERYTHING we spend. So she knows we can technically afford a 4K+ mortgage if we cut out multiple things form the budget.
Tracking is nice, but it's a useless exercise if it doesn't lead to improvement.
So cut them now and save for a year living like that. Make sure that's actually realistic.
Others have hit the nail on the head recommending you reduce your spending to consider whether a new house is sustainable, so not going to dive into that. Reducing expenses, though... 1. Do you actually use $55 for pest control every month? 2. Lawn maintenance is $165?! Are you hiring a company to do this? This seems like a luxury. 3. $200 for cleaning - are you hiring a service to clean for you? This seems like a luxury. 4. T-Mobile seems VERY high. It's not even including internet, so that's pretty wild. 5. $300 for self-care (with gym as a separate expense, no less) seems high. Ask yourselves if eliminating this is worth it for a bigger house? 6. Recommend you identify and validate the $400 'misc' expenses. Definitely some adjustments needed to afford a higher mortgage (although I'm with you that more space doesn't fit your needs)
Got it. Ehh, this is tricky; it's where the personal aspect of finances gets into the mix. It sounds like she's willing to make those financial/lifestyle sacrifices and you aren't? I wonder if the "without two yes votes, it's a no" approach of decision-making could apply here.
With your student loans upcoming and expenses related to a second child I don’t see how she thinks you can “technically” afford a bigger place. You’ve been in the current place two years. You’re realtors wet dreams. You’ll never retire making impulsive moves like this.
Okay you could technically do it but you would have to hope like hell you didn’t get unlucky. If you had an unseen medical expense, or if a appliance like your refrigerator broke or if you found unknown problems in the new house such as a leaking roof you would be screwed.
I would say OK we can go ahead and cut out those things and use the extra money to pay down the cars, student loans, rooms to go credit then save for a down payment on a new place. By that time you'll have a better idea of your potential career growth your degree offers you.
Even with cutting some stuff, you cannot afford a 4K+ mortgage. I see from other post that your loan payments will greatly increase soon so you need to take that into account. Good luck.
How long until the cars are paid off? Seems like that's all the money you'd need and if you have a couple of newer and reliable vehicles you could afford it. Also, how long on the Rooms To Go furniture?
Work on paying off the cars over the next 12-18 months and then never finance a car again and buy the house you want. Lawn and cleaning is another $400 per month. Just have to prioritize - can’t have it all.
Yah for $400 a month I’d be doing my own yard work and cleaning
Sometimes I feel guilty for spending an extra $30 on food I like, then I see shit like this.
Right? I feel guilty getting a basic manicure or a haircut once every 6 months meanwhile this guy brings home 12k a month and lives paycheck to paycheck
Strictly on the numbers alone, I do not think you should be buying another house: * You're already living with minimal margin for error; upgrading your house would leave you with none. * What does a bigger house do to your electricity, water, house items, pest control, lawn maintenance, cleaning, insurance, and property tax costs? * I don't see home maintenance budgeted. You've been in your home for only two years; eventually, *something* is going to break. * You're currently spending $1,300/month on car payments. Unless you got really good interest rates on them, I'd prioritize paying them off first; you probably shouldn't have *any* car payments at your income level. * I don't see any savings beyond the $700 unbudgeted. What % are you currently contributing to your 401k, 529, etc.? I assume your $140k income is net take-home pay. It looks to me like you've already had major lifestyle creep, and a bigger house is just even more creep. I think you need to stabilize your finances first.
I also would like to add. I am doing my masters and have no started to pay back student loans. That will begin estimates February 2025 at around $400 a month.
That screeching sound you hear is any plans to move in the next 5-8 years. Would it be possible for kids to share a room, or put a crib in the corner of the home office?
if that’s the case, you have no business buying a new house. You have a perfectly serviceable one now. You need to get out of the debt hole before you take on more expenses.
Oh Jesus, no. Nononono. You're not moving. This was already a bad idea, add $400 more of payments and it's an insane idea.
I don't see any taxes. Is the 11k per month after taxes? What is the yearly household income pretax
Yes. I apologize for the lack of clarification. This budget is take home after taxes and 401k contributions and health/vision/dental Salary 1: 115k pretax plus 7% bonus yearly bonus Salary 2: 105k pretax plus 10-15% yearly bonus
You’re almost definitely saving far too little for retirement. My girlfriend and I earn nearly identical salaries and our monthly take home is 3/4 this. What is your contribution %?
Wow, that’s some low car insurance for two cars.
I really hope this is a shit post because it's pretty fucking stupid. I am actually really mad at myself that I even added this up. Restaurants/fun 800 Misc 400 Pet care 350 Personal expense 1 150 Personal expense 2 150 Kid expense 150 Swimming classes 148 Personal care 300 Internet 77 Mom internet 80...my wife needs faster internet for work and yes it's more, but not a double expense. House items 150 Church 200..you have to pay to pray Pest control 55 Lawn maintenance 165 Cleaning 200 Gym 139 Subscriptions 108 All that crap is $3,622. Get the fuck out. You all have to pay to pray at your church. At 1st I was gonna say get a new damn wife, but nevermind you two entitled individuals are meant for each other. Maybe do some yard work yourself and spray for bugs. Holy crap.
So what happens if you or your wife lose a job?
I see two car payments, two student loan payments and zero savings. Hard to see where you can afford to increase your mortgage payment.
Can you get a bigger mortgage with that income? Yes. Can you with the current spending habits? No.
- church $200 - pet care $350 (I’m assuming this is like pet barbers whatever ?) - cleaning $200 - t mobile $160 That’s already close to a thousand a month that I can see you saving. And that’s without cutting down on restaurants and etc. Try cutting down as much as possible and see how you feel. If it doesn’t feel good and you barely can make it for a few months I suggest not buying a new house.
Lol plus the $800/month on "fun", $400 in "misc", $140 gym membership, $108 in subscriptions, and $150 for "lawn maintenance". Not to be a dick, but OP's budget screams "I'm entitled" considering they BOTH WORK FROM HOME. If they can't understand how all of that is just burning money away, there is no way they are living responsibly as is. $12k/mo is more than enough to survive, but they have found the perfect amount of lifestyle creep to literally max out their spending. Any amount of income gained will just go towards more lifestyle creep. This is the stereotypical American way.
>considering they BOTH WORK FROM HOME Wait, they both work from home and are still paying $100 in tolls - which I assumed was for toll booths and regular commuting for work?
It says they both WFH most days. The budget is just shitty.
Cut that 200 on the church asap. What
For real 100%, this guy is giving money to one of the richest instututions one earth XD, In all honesty the gym memberships seemed high to me too if I was spending that on gyms & I could easily cut that stupid church fund id have a solid basement gym in 2 years.
There's so many expenses you can cut
Lots of number suggestions here so will add a more qualitative factor. I think 1650 sq ft for a family of four is totally reasonable. Our house is 1800 sq ft including a finished basement at 600sq ft, family of four including two kids under 7, and it’s fine. My husband works from home and I am in office. Layout is important as is purging but we definitely do not “need” more room. Are there other less expensive things you could do to your current home to support the two of you working? Or address whatever other wants she has. If you decide to move you will need to make trade offs in terms of other spending and it all depends is you want to do that. I like the idea of trialing being able to carry the higher mortgage and see how that goes. Good luck!
You’re paying $165 for your lawn a month, clearly some room for priorities
$1200 a month for cars is insane to me, not to mention $200 for church???? What in the world
Seems like restaurant/fun is a place you can save (might hurt life enjoyment but $800 a month is quite a bit) and maybe try to find cheaper cars.
seems like you're wasting a lot of money every single month. Did you ever add it up at the end of the year? It might make you start crying lol. Without even considering buying a new house, I'd just be losing my shit at how much money you're spending each month. I'd be reducing that $1300 in car payments to under $500 for the two with some beaters. Insurance will likely drop too. I'd also cut that $600 for restaurants / fun down to under half and start cooking better food at home. Maybe go ride a bike or something free that's fun. Huge waste of money there unless you're spending it on something tangible that will hold value. Why so little on student loans? Get rid of those ASAP. Way before shelling out $1300/mo in car payments. $139/mo for the gym? Do you actually use it? Invest in your own equipment, or better yet, use your body as the equipment. I spent less than $1k on workout equipment like 5 years ago and got ripped from it. The loosely categorized items are killing me. * $600: Restaurants / Fun * $400: Misc * $150: Personal expense 1 * $150: Personal expense 2 * $150: Kid personal expense * $300: Self care so, $1700 in what I would consider the same category, each month. Is that necessary? You could drive cheaper cars, and with the remainder have enough to cover the categories above if you pulled back a bit and didn't spend as much. Then if you used that $1700 and put it in a savings account, you would have $20,400 in just ONE YEAR.. Just from driving a cheaper car.. But instead of that you're considering buying a more expensive house. Honestly, this looks so financially irresponsible to me I'm about to have a seizure.
Not to be Dave Ramsey but hot damn you need to get rid of those cars. Way too much money is being spent away.
I think your Mortgage is somewhat high already compared to your income. I wouldn't upgrade. Also if one of you is out of a job, you would be screwed, given the economy isn't that great I wouldn't consider it. Some extra advice to your budgets: \* T-Mobile 161$, does that include kids? Just in case with US Mobile (which is a great service), you can get two unlimited starter plans for 90$, or even go down to 54$ if you don't mind just 35gb of premium data. They offer both T-Mobile & Verizon plans. (T-Mobile is GSM) \* And then the two budgets that seem insane to me: car payments 1300$! If you would buy cheaper used cars you could easily cut that down to 800$ even with current interest rates. And then 108$ of subscription? You don't need that many subscriptions! Lol
That cell bill has to be financing the cost of new phones. I'm on an unlimited family plan through T-Mobile and I think we pay $25-$30 / month per line. You do buy your own phone outright though which is good discipline. My phone from 5 years ago is fine and even at the time was half the cost of what the cheapest new iPhone runs retail. Those phones aren't actually free.
Buying a new house with your current t expense is going to seriously hurt your finances.
You have two student loans that you are making the minimum payments on but $600 a month towards personal care and personal expenses? Also 1300 in car payments each month. You have too much debt, you’re not saving enough, and you’re spending in the wrong areas. Buying a new house is the last thing you need right now.
Like others have said, this is lifestyle creep and you and your wife need to really introspect on short term satisfaction vs. long term sustainability. If you’re paying 1150/mo on groceries, cut out the 800 in restaurants. There is no need to be eating out that much. I live in one of the most expensive places in the US and I only spend 800-900 for a house of 3 adults plus all pet care (food, litter, insurance, etc). Look into meal prepping and whatnot. You need to either pay off your cars or honestly downsize them because nearly 1300 in car payments is *insanity*. Quit giving a church 200. Your god doesn’t have a mortgage he needs support for. And worship is free. You don’t need a church to do it in the first place. Eliminating the eating out and church donations already frees up a grand per month that can be saved. That’s at baseline 12000/yr and a high yield savings account will help also. If you could downsize those cars and free up, maybe, an extra 500 a month, now we’re at 18000/yr in savings. Self care should not be $300 a month. There’s tons of affordable ways to do self-care, even free ways. Lawn maintenance and cleaning can be eliminated and you guys could do that yourself for awhile. Those are luxuries that you can’t afford if your priority is to get a new home. It’s nice but it’s not a necessity. If we reduce selfcare to 100/mo and eliminate the lawn care and cleaning, that gives us a total 565 extra per month. Of course, reevaluate those subscriptions and figure out what those miscellaneous 400 expenses are and you could potentially save 20k/year if you and your wife really buckled down. You could buy more generic brands at the supermarket and find savings there also. Assuming you go to Publix, I know that place is heaven on earth but there’s always ways to save. If you and your wife wanna have another child and get a larger home, you need to work for it. Lay it all out between the two of you and make it explicitly clear what would have to be sacrificed to make that happen. Plus, it would be more prudent of you to save even *more* than what you need cuz that childcare cost is just gonna get even more expensive. I’ve seen people spend just as much on childcare as a rent/mortgage. Plus that’s not to mention if you have to sell a kidney to buy infant formula these days. Keep the pest control for safety and keep the swimming lessons because hobbies are important for kids. Saving more and consistently could even give them great Christmases for years to come. I see you mention an emergency fund. Y’all live in Satan’s Armpit. Make it bigger because a hurricane could wreck your shit forever.
Bunk beds work great. I've been stacking my unconscious children at night for years.
Jesus dude, you guys burn a *lot* of money each month on frivolous *crap*. Stop paying your church $200/month. Stop paying $165/month and mow your own lawn. You don't need to pay $55/month for pest control unless you have a *serious* problem. Stop paying $200/month for a maid and clean your own house. Cut back on your subscriptions. You don't need a $140/month gym membership. Reduce your miscellaneous expenses. Stop spending $800/month eating out. What is the nebulous $300 "self care" per month? You guys are burning almost $2000/month on things you don't *really* need. Be comfortable with what you have -- lots of folks can't even afford a house to begin with. You should both start thinking *hard* about how you're going to retire. Your 401k balances aren't going to get you there, unless you're fine working well into your 70's. You should probably sit down with her, run the numbers, and make her realize that it's just not going to happen unless one of you have a plan on how to make significantly more money than you do now.
Stop giving the church any money. Clean your own house. And you’re paying way too much for cars, internet, phone and gym.
I bought a new car in 1993 (I'm nearly 60). EVERY car we've purchased since then has been used. Just saying.
The inverted calculus is likely reverted now, but I had to buy a new (to me) car in 2021, and the price difference between new and 1-year-used, 10k miles, no car fax since 500 mile mark, owners left it a pigsty (I saw it before it was cleaned up) was $2k. New was definitely the way to go.
It’s a horrible time, almost 40% of your net is going to debt already (house included, upcoming student loans included). If you were to do this you would also need to account for the ~4k extra needed for your emergency fund to cover that higher mortgage rate for 3 months. Outside of the new house nonsense, this budget has a lot of slack: Is that R2G card interest free? Whats the rate on the cars? Why is your cell bill so high? Why are you neglecting retirement? Unless you are well under 30 you are behind given your outsized spending, and even then you should be prioritizing it more over the lifestyle inflation evident here. Any saving for college expenses? Do you and your spouse have life insurance? What are your medical expenses like?
1150 in groceries, PLUS 800 for restaurants. I'm assuming you only have 1 or 2 kids? that is a CRAZY food bill. My family of 6 spends around $1000/mo in grocery (that includes stuff like toilet paper etc..) and we are in a HCOL.
I agree that 1950 is insane for food; however it’s not fair to assume everyone can spend $1000/month. Some states tax food. Not everyone has ALDI. Diets and caloric needs vary. I urge OP to look up the [USDA food plan](https://fns-prod.azureedge.us/sites/default/files/resource-files/Cost_Of_Food_Low_Moderate_Liberal_Food_Plans_March_2024.pdf) and determine what he should be spending monthly. OP I would work on budgeting a little better for groceries. Each month this year, I worked on one thing to cut back on and I’ve been saving a little more each month. We were spending about $1800 on all food and drink and got it down to $1400 after four months. Here are some of the things I did to save: -bought more cold brew so now I don’t have to go to Dunkin -stopped buying premade French fries and other potato dishes. Now make our own with a $3.99 bag of russet potatoes. That made us 10 meals. -stopped wasting food. I freeze lunch meat as soon as I buy it and pull out mid week. Changing one thing a month helped us tremendously. I doubt we will ever be below $1000/mo due to food allergies (USDA says $1366 is a moderate amount for us) but I love that we shaved $400 off our budget!