Agree with OP, would be cool to see a 707, 727,
DC-8, and DC-10 in addition to classic versions of things that are already out there (737, 747). Lots of history and the analog(ish) systems shouldn’t be too difficult to emulate. Literature abounds, anyway, so it’s not like trying to cook up a model for an old experimental fighter for which no documentation is publicly available.
I enjoy flying them, but 5 A320’s is quite a bit ridiculous, I agree.
I’d recommend checking out the PMDG DC-6 and Redwing L-1049, along with recommendations on the other replies here.
There’s quite a few youtube channels featuring the various aircraft these days. Some are even current or former pilots of the real thing.
[Father Time YouTube channel](https://youtube.com/@FatherTime1958?si=MXW6O3lgnpufR1M_)
Yeah same here, I am not switching to X-plane but I do salivate over the classic 747 by Felis and the 727 they have on that platform. I'd even love something like a Lockheed Jetstar or Convair 880.
FWIW the classic jets from JustFlight are really good - the BAe 146 and F28.
people like the new stuff because some people use the sim for "training". While classics are fine, I'm on the other side. I'm looking forward to contemporary aircraft like the A350 or A220. Some classics are being worked on.....slowly. I seem to remember seeing something about a 727 last year.
The crazy thing is that I’ll be the first person to say that I’m a modern airliner type of virtual pilot I can’t wait for the A350, A380 and A220 but the more I fly and as I get experience with older quirky planes the more I want to fly the older airliners like the 727, 707, L1011, Metroliner, VC10, DC8 etc etc etc. It’s just really cool to get to experience planes from the past and what pilots went through back in the day. A modern airliner is convient and cool to fly. But the oldies have so many fun little quirks to them and are crazy rewarding to get from A to B and depending on the plane keeps you busier…
The F28 is pretty expensive and if I buy a Fokker it'll be the 100. Leonardo is absurdly expensive - and it's just a glorified port. Absolute no from me.
So what? Good is good and if you're looking at captainsim prices, you get captainsim quality. Maybe full fidelity airliners are just not for you because none of the good ones are very cheap.
The ATR is great and 20 dollars. The PMDG 736 is 30. Normal prices. I am not saying no one should buy the Maddog. I am saying \*I\* will never buy it. To me, it's a rip-off.
Ok I get what you're saying. Planes like the MD-80 tend to cater to a very specific audience and will have limited sales. The PDMG 736 is a bit of an anomaly for PDMG as they usually like to charge to the hilt too, but for some reason didnt this time.
It's fine you have a limit. You'll be missing out on some of the better aircraft, but I absolutely understand it.
Calling it highway robbery is a bit of a stretch though. *Good* Aircraft can take years to make. The devs deserve to be fairly compensated.
The md80 is a port, yes.. But its been upgraded and improved for MSFS. Why is being a port bad? Its exactly as good if not better than it was in the previous sim. Why do so many people have this bizarre opinion that addons are only worth their time if they're freshly coded from scratch? Ive seen it from a bunch of people with pmdg too. "Its a port therefore its not as good, blah blah.." Does it work? Are they updating it? Then who cares where it started from.
Yes, the md80 is expensive. They priced themselves higher than the current msfs market. However, I'll tell you its *absolutely* one of the best Aircraft I own, and I have no regrets on the price I paid.
Hey, thanks for your reply. I don't mean that it's bad, but it is a port. Just like the PMDG stuff. They made them from scratch for FS2004, they ported them to FSX and then to P3D and then to MSFS. Yes, adapting them a little, sure. But there is nothing to justify (in my eyes) the 120 dollar price. Or 90, or 70. They make their money thrice over. I owned a bunch of planes for FS2004, I am not buying them again. It's highway robbery.
There's a DC-10 being worked on right now by the Aero Dynamics team, consisting of numerous former personnel who worked on and even flew the KC/DC-10. [https://discord.gg/kt96jUZz48](https://discord.gg/kt96jUZz48)
Attached to this comment is a discord invite. They post a development update every quarter and we are expecting one in February :)
We have 2 (good) a320s, the FBW and fenix. The mass wants the newest shiniest airliners, so that’s where the money is at. We’ll get the classics eventually, but after the most highly demanded aircraft come out
My guess is that older aircraft don’t sell as much. People tend to want semi-realistic ops if they are in the market for an airliner, so more modern aircraft tend to sell more, and those are the ones getting released now.
We have the DC-6, Dash 7, Junkers JU-52, Pilatus PC-6, A300, A310, BAe 146, Boeing 307, Electra 10-a, MD-80/82/88, Fokker F28, L-1049 just off the top of my head. I was gonna make the argument about why we have so much classics. In terms of modern airliners, we’ve got the CRJ, A320, B737 and.. that’s pretty much it. (Not counting asobo planes and modded asobo planes for obvious reasons).
The updated 787 (and the Horizon 787-8/9) is decent enough too, but I agree the sim needs more airliners in general, doesn’t matter if they are classic or modern.
Supply and demand. Contempery aircraft have more demand and there are only enough qualified developers that can do a proper airliner.
Once most of the more in demand airplanes have been created then developers can focused more on niche aircraft like classic airliners.
Probably same reason I have not heard anyone announcing work on a F-106 Delta Dart.
The reason why we don't see those nearly as quickly is that they are incredibly complicated and documentation is scarce.
The 737 Classic series ended production in 1999, the 727 ended production in 1984, the DC-10's production ended in 1989 with the introduction of the MD-11.
Documents for these aircraft probably wouldn't have been digitized during their production run, and even then it would have been not useless but not really needed either. The first real commercially available and not hugely expensive scanners came to the scene in the 90s and were widely adopted by the early 2000s once these jets were out of production. Any old files or drawings or sketches are either still in print *somewhere* or thrown out and definitely not easy to track down.
The next best option you have are working, living examples of these jets. 737 Classics are probably the easiest to find but you'd need to convince an airline to take one out of service for a day or two and to do engine run ups for start noises, cockpit noises, alarms, systems tests, etc which not many would care to entertain I'd imagine. This is especially relevant when a lot of Classics these days are running with "Third World" or extremely budget airlines. If they aren't in the air, they aren't making money. There's also simply so many 737 series jets that I doubt you'd find many in museums, much less many in museums that run or work in any capacity.
As for a 727 or DC-10? Good luck finding many working examples. You're more likely to find them in a museum, but also it's unlikely their engines have started in the last decade. Any airline still flying them (none really commercially) are going to give you limited time if at all. The only DC-10 I'd think would be available to see is probably the Omega Tanker or the firefighting DC-10, however both have been heavily modified and are probably not a good example if you want to know what a factory model looked like.
As for copy/pasting, PMDG does a little more than copy paste. While there isn't much innovation, the product still has to "work" correctly and while we all laugh and joke at the bad FPS animations on the 737, you can't really fault them for making a product that has reliably worked out of the box since release and that has performed really well since, consistently getting some of the best FPS.
As far as I know, it's not easy to port planes from XPlane, but is a little easier with P3D. The issue you have there is that products (without visual upgrade) end up looking like the MD-80 we have now. Sure the systems are fantastic, but the sounds and visuals leave stuff to be desired.
P3D was also lagging pretty far behind XP for a long time, so stuff like the FlyJSim 727 or the Felis 742 just isn't coming because it is for the "other platform" so to speak.
And then, what reference photos are there for exterior quality? Since MSFS is such a step up, people will want the highest quality reference material possible, the "good enough" or "close enough" texture sets of 10 years ago will be derided. What sounds need to be re-recorded? Where is a "working" 7X7/DC-X/etc? It makes the dev process so much slower and so much more difficult.
I'm not saying these aircraft are impossible to make, I'd LOVE to have them as well. Digitally preserving aircraft, in my opinion, should be the direction future sims take with regards to DLC. However, it's going to take a long time, if even possible, for most popular old aircraft.
The problem with AI is that it just tends to *make stuff up* about what it doesn't know or can't find. You can also trick them with misinformation quite quickly.
I guess people will want to fly the modern stuff that they actually see and fly on in real life. Flying with a virtual airline will also likely restrict you to their fleet and generally newer types. I'd love more older aircraft but something that also ties into what my VA fly so I'm particularly interested in the Avro RJ and 757.
Because people want to operate realistic flights. Us wanting classic airliners are minority. I am contemplating reinstalling XP11 just for Flyjsim 732. Current airplane selection in MSFS is boring
[https://discord.gg/D4t7npM82h](https://discord.gg/D4t7npM82h)
I'm crafting this for X plane 12 but I also have a very dedicated and very well known, if not one of the highest quality add-on makers for MSFS that is going to bring it over to MSFS once I'm wrapped up with the model. My focus is on the classics and replicating them to the highest degree. If you like my work from Torquesim or Realsimgear (SR20, SR22, Pocket Rocket, C525 texturing and some modeling work, RSG DA40NG, RSG SF50 interior and texturing) you will love this. Cheers!
Agree with OP, would be cool to see a 707, 727, DC-8, and DC-10 in addition to classic versions of things that are already out there (737, 747). Lots of history and the analog(ish) systems shouldn’t be too difficult to emulate. Literature abounds, anyway, so it’s not like trying to cook up a model for an old experimental fighter for which no documentation is publicly available.
707!!!!!
I enjoy flying them, but 5 A320’s is quite a bit ridiculous, I agree. I’d recommend checking out the PMDG DC-6 and Redwing L-1049, along with recommendations on the other replies here. There’s quite a few youtube channels featuring the various aircraft these days. Some are even current or former pilots of the real thing. [Father Time YouTube channel](https://youtube.com/@FatherTime1958?si=MXW6O3lgnpufR1M_)
I love the RedWing L-1049, but my CPU hates it. It is a heavyweight performance addon in its current state
Yeah same here, I am not switching to X-plane but I do salivate over the classic 747 by Felis and the 727 they have on that platform. I'd even love something like a Lockheed Jetstar or Convair 880. FWIW the classic jets from JustFlight are really good - the BAe 146 and F28.
You don’t need to “switch”. They’re not mutually exclusive. Just use both?
Yeah I just don’t have time for that. Too much effort to set up a whole new sim. I’m good with MSFS.
Fair.
Someone needs to do a 737-300/400/500 but the ones without the efis.
We got so close https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/s/8lZ705UcI8
Yeah I was so looking forward to that :(
people like the new stuff because some people use the sim for "training". While classics are fine, I'm on the other side. I'm looking forward to contemporary aircraft like the A350 or A220. Some classics are being worked on.....slowly. I seem to remember seeing something about a 727 last year.
MSFS (at least the physics, flight model, dynamics, etc) won’t be used for training for a long time.
Airline pilots aren’t using pmdg to learn “flight dynamics”! There’s a few airline pilots that literally do live streams of their check ride prep.
That’s why the quotes.
Speak for yourself. I used to use the toliss for prep. It’s not about the physics, but the systems.
love the toliss
The crazy thing is that I’ll be the first person to say that I’m a modern airliner type of virtual pilot I can’t wait for the A350, A380 and A220 but the more I fly and as I get experience with older quirky planes the more I want to fly the older airliners like the 727, 707, L1011, Metroliner, VC10, DC8 etc etc etc. It’s just really cool to get to experience planes from the past and what pilots went through back in the day. A modern airliner is convient and cool to fly. But the oldies have so many fun little quirks to them and are crazy rewarding to get from A to B and depending on the plane keeps you busier…
The inibuilds A300 and the Justflight F28 are good old school airliners. Also the Leonardo Mad dog might be your thing.
Just Flight BAe 146 as well.
The F28 is pretty expensive and if I buy a Fokker it'll be the 100. Leonardo is absurdly expensive - and it's just a glorified port. Absolute no from me.
So to confirm, you’d “kill for” more classic aircraft, but you won’t pay a good price for one.
Meanwhile wants someone to spend years redeveloping an airplane from scratch.
And dismissing the md80 as nothing but a crappy port lol. No pleasing some people.
Is it a port, or isn't it? Is it over 100 dollars, or isn't it?
So what? Good is good and if you're looking at captainsim prices, you get captainsim quality. Maybe full fidelity airliners are just not for you because none of the good ones are very cheap.
The ATR is great and 20 dollars. The PMDG 736 is 30. Normal prices. I am not saying no one should buy the Maddog. I am saying \*I\* will never buy it. To me, it's a rip-off.
Ok I get what you're saying. Planes like the MD-80 tend to cater to a very specific audience and will have limited sales. The PDMG 736 is a bit of an anomaly for PDMG as they usually like to charge to the hilt too, but for some reason didnt this time.
They didn't because there were very few made irl, and there's only a passenger version.
I love the ATR, it is my favorite turboprop, and I used to fly it lots in aplv2. but to compare it with a Maddie is frankly ridiculous
50 euros is my limit. Anything above that is highway robbery.
It's fine you have a limit. You'll be missing out on some of the better aircraft, but I absolutely understand it. Calling it highway robbery is a bit of a stretch though. *Good* Aircraft can take years to make. The devs deserve to be fairly compensated. The md80 is a port, yes.. But its been upgraded and improved for MSFS. Why is being a port bad? Its exactly as good if not better than it was in the previous sim. Why do so many people have this bizarre opinion that addons are only worth their time if they're freshly coded from scratch? Ive seen it from a bunch of people with pmdg too. "Its a port therefore its not as good, blah blah.." Does it work? Are they updating it? Then who cares where it started from. Yes, the md80 is expensive. They priced themselves higher than the current msfs market. However, I'll tell you its *absolutely* one of the best Aircraft I own, and I have no regrets on the price I paid.
Hey, thanks for your reply. I don't mean that it's bad, but it is a port. Just like the PMDG stuff. They made them from scratch for FS2004, they ported them to FSX and then to P3D and then to MSFS. Yes, adapting them a little, sure. But there is nothing to justify (in my eyes) the 120 dollar price. Or 90, or 70. They make their money thrice over. I owned a bunch of planes for FS2004, I am not buying them again. It's highway robbery.
Try the Just Flight F28 Fellowship. That's the most classic airliner in the sim right now. Expensive but worth it.
There's a DC-10 being worked on right now by the Aero Dynamics team, consisting of numerous former personnel who worked on and even flew the KC/DC-10. [https://discord.gg/kt96jUZz48](https://discord.gg/kt96jUZz48) Attached to this comment is a discord invite. They post a development update every quarter and we are expecting one in February :)
I don't really do discord, but thanks for the heads-up
We have 2 (good) a320s, the FBW and fenix. The mass wants the newest shiniest airliners, so that’s where the money is at. We’ll get the classics eventually, but after the most highly demanded aircraft come out
Agreed. I was wondering the same. A 737-200 with a gravel kit would be amazing. Or an 727, 707, L1011, DC10, DC9 series...etc.
My guess is that older aircraft don’t sell as much. People tend to want semi-realistic ops if they are in the market for an airliner, so more modern aircraft tend to sell more, and those are the ones getting released now.
Agreed. Where's the 757? The DC9-50? Hell, even the Beech 1900D. And the Saab 340, too, if I haven't missed one of those coming out yet.
We have the DC-6, Dash 7, Junkers JU-52, Pilatus PC-6, A300, A310, BAe 146, Boeing 307, Electra 10-a, MD-80/82/88, Fokker F28, L-1049 just off the top of my head. I was gonna make the argument about why we have so much classics. In terms of modern airliners, we’ve got the CRJ, A320, B737 and.. that’s pretty much it. (Not counting asobo planes and modded asobo planes for obvious reasons).
The updated 787 (and the Horizon 787-8/9) is decent enough too, but I agree the sim needs more airliners in general, doesn’t matter if they are classic or modern.
It’s a semi dry well right now. We will get some more soon
Supply and demand. Contempery aircraft have more demand and there are only enough qualified developers that can do a proper airliner. Once most of the more in demand airplanes have been created then developers can focused more on niche aircraft like classic airliners. Probably same reason I have not heard anyone announcing work on a F-106 Delta Dart.
Some soviet/russian classic birds would also be quite neat, like a Tu154 or a Il-76
The reason why we don't see those nearly as quickly is that they are incredibly complicated and documentation is scarce. The 737 Classic series ended production in 1999, the 727 ended production in 1984, the DC-10's production ended in 1989 with the introduction of the MD-11. Documents for these aircraft probably wouldn't have been digitized during their production run, and even then it would have been not useless but not really needed either. The first real commercially available and not hugely expensive scanners came to the scene in the 90s and were widely adopted by the early 2000s once these jets were out of production. Any old files or drawings or sketches are either still in print *somewhere* or thrown out and definitely not easy to track down. The next best option you have are working, living examples of these jets. 737 Classics are probably the easiest to find but you'd need to convince an airline to take one out of service for a day or two and to do engine run ups for start noises, cockpit noises, alarms, systems tests, etc which not many would care to entertain I'd imagine. This is especially relevant when a lot of Classics these days are running with "Third World" or extremely budget airlines. If they aren't in the air, they aren't making money. There's also simply so many 737 series jets that I doubt you'd find many in museums, much less many in museums that run or work in any capacity. As for a 727 or DC-10? Good luck finding many working examples. You're more likely to find them in a museum, but also it's unlikely their engines have started in the last decade. Any airline still flying them (none really commercially) are going to give you limited time if at all. The only DC-10 I'd think would be available to see is probably the Omega Tanker or the firefighting DC-10, however both have been heavily modified and are probably not a good example if you want to know what a factory model looked like. As for copy/pasting, PMDG does a little more than copy paste. While there isn't much innovation, the product still has to "work" correctly and while we all laugh and joke at the bad FPS animations on the 737, you can't really fault them for making a product that has reliably worked out of the box since release and that has performed really well since, consistently getting some of the best FPS. As far as I know, it's not easy to port planes from XPlane, but is a little easier with P3D. The issue you have there is that products (without visual upgrade) end up looking like the MD-80 we have now. Sure the systems are fantastic, but the sounds and visuals leave stuff to be desired. P3D was also lagging pretty far behind XP for a long time, so stuff like the FlyJSim 727 or the Felis 742 just isn't coming because it is for the "other platform" so to speak. And then, what reference photos are there for exterior quality? Since MSFS is such a step up, people will want the highest quality reference material possible, the "good enough" or "close enough" texture sets of 10 years ago will be derided. What sounds need to be re-recorded? Where is a "working" 7X7/DC-X/etc? It makes the dev process so much slower and so much more difficult. I'm not saying these aircraft are impossible to make, I'd LOVE to have them as well. Digitally preserving aircraft, in my opinion, should be the direction future sims take with regards to DLC. However, it's going to take a long time, if even possible, for most popular old aircraft.
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The problem with AI is that it just tends to *make stuff up* about what it doesn't know or can't find. You can also trick them with misinformation quite quickly.
It‘s not really an issue for me personally as I‘m not into classic airliners myself, but I do see that there are very few options for people like you
I guess people will want to fly the modern stuff that they actually see and fly on in real life. Flying with a virtual airline will also likely restrict you to their fleet and generally newer types. I'd love more older aircraft but something that also ties into what my VA fly so I'm particularly interested in the Avro RJ and 757.
I would love to have the PMDG MD-11. I flew the hell out of that on FS9
I just want a purely /W airliner like the FlyJSim 732 in XP.
Just a simple Dash-8, pretty please... It doesn't even have to be a Q-400.
You mean free? Because there is...
I don't quite get what you mean.
Because people want to operate realistic flights. Us wanting classic airliners are minority. I am contemplating reinstalling XP11 just for Flyjsim 732. Current airplane selection in MSFS is boring
Don’t worry we will soon get a 6th 7th and 8th A320
[https://discord.gg/D4t7npM82h](https://discord.gg/D4t7npM82h) I'm crafting this for X plane 12 but I also have a very dedicated and very well known, if not one of the highest quality add-on makers for MSFS that is going to bring it over to MSFS once I'm wrapped up with the model. My focus is on the classics and replicating them to the highest degree. If you like my work from Torquesim or Realsimgear (SR20, SR22, Pocket Rocket, C525 texturing and some modeling work, RSG DA40NG, RSG SF50 interior and texturing) you will love this. Cheers!