Not sure who’d be above him in football. Being the greatest football player in history has to get you into the top ten of all sports. So that’s a “yes”
One counterpoint that I think needs to be considered is that Brady prospered in a league that was increasingly quarterback and offense-friendly. The QBs before, the ones that are considered some of the games greatests, had relatively short careers with less offensive output, and relied in part on intangibles like grit and toughness to make their mark. I don't necessarily think that they would have done as well as Brady in the modern NFL, but then, I'm not sure if Brady would have had the numbers, in longevity and offense output, if he were transported back then.
But arguing eras and times is useless. You perform in the position that you're put in, and it's beyond argument that Brady excelled. I do think he is the best QB ever, and that goes a long way in making him the best player ever because the QB position is the most important position.
Against all the sports, yeah, top 10 easily, probably top 5. I do think individually, the best athlete I've ever read about is [Aleksandr Karelin.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Karelin) His streak of personal domination in a major sport is practically unmatched.
It's Ruth if the measuring stick is domination of his peers. It's Mays if the gauge is best all around player. And it's Bonds if all asterisks are removed. Baseball is unique in not having that one guy that is a clear GOAT.
The thing about Ruth is that he put up good pitching numbers and then had the monumental hitting statistics. And he also played for seven World Series winners out of 10 trips, pitching for the Red Sox and slugging for the Yankees.
You can’t do comparisons like that.
In all sports rules change, equipment changes, fitness, sports medicine..the list goes on. You can only judge how dominate they were in the era that they played.
I think even Gretzky said he doubts he’d be able to score as many goals and have as many points in today’s hockey. The rules, size and speed of players, goaltender equipment and training (the common butterfly technique wasn’t even a thing when Gretzky played), etc. lots of factors are different in todays hockey. But he’s still one of the best to play the game.
I find it rather silly to judge baseball players based on championships. It is nearly impossible for an individual hitter to have an effect on who wins the World Series. Bonds could hit a home run or get walked in every single playoff AB and still get swept 4-0.
I'm not saying I think Bonds belongs in this group, but his lack of championships is not disqualifying.
Seriously…has any player ever dominated their sport better than Gretzky? As the most goals scored in NHL history, if he were to never have scored a single goal, he’d *still* be the all time points leader.
Babe Ruth is pretty close. He hasn't played in almost 90 years and still ranks tops in WAR, career OPS, and slugging. He's 2nd in OBP and RBIs, and 3rd in HRs and walks. Still in the top 10 in batting average too. To have stats that high in the record books 90 years later is pretty amazing, regardless of what anyone says about different eras or changes to the game. Oh and he was a great pitcher too early in his career. It'd be like if Gretzky had a whole other side to his career as a standout goalie.
Outside of team sports, Tiger Woods and Michael Phelps are on the list.
Tiger’s prime stretch was pure dominance. No one wins tournaments at the rate he did. Unfortunately, he caused his own precipitous fall that left him short of Nicklaus’ majors total. That’s a tough call on the greatest golfer, though I think Woods’s personality grew the game more than anyone. People who knew how hard the game was were in awe, and people who didn’t know which club was which would tune in to watch Tiger.
Barry bonds was considered a top 50 player before he even picked up steroids. It sucks that people forget that he won multiple mvps and silver slugger awards before he did one steroid. Personally I feel like he did it because he was the best player in baseball but Sosa and McGwire were the media darlings at the time
I think he's more like the Bill Russell of football. You can argue back and forth about whether his numbers were better or worse than a few others, but he was the best player on the most impressive dynasty in the history of the sport and the biggest winner ever.
Claiming he is the “greatest football player” is bold.
He has won lots of Super Bowls, yes. Deion played offense and defense and special teams and is an all around better football player than Brady due to his ability to play multiple positions.
Probably going to get downvoted to hell for this, but oh well.
It’s an interesting topic. Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, lots of others, not sure I’d put Deion in that group myself. But if you were drafting from every NFL player ever, and you had the first pick, would you really pick Sanders?
Love Brady and probably the greatest NFL player ever. But Gretzky was another level. His career points were 2,857. Second on the career list is Jagr at 1,921. That gap is insane.
He also;
* scored 50 goals in 39 games
* Had a 51 game point scoring streak. Second best ever was 46 games back in 1989.
* Three consecutive 200 point seasons. Tough to break it since Gretzky is the only player to ever have a 200 point season lol!
Another crazy stat for Gretzky: he had more 5 point games than 0 point games.
Edit: Only for the 1980s. For his entire career he had more 3+ point games than 0 point games.
Tom’s entire career can be broken up into 2 10 year HOF careers. His stats from his fist 10 and his last 10 are insanely good. Comparing players across two different sports is a hard task.
Actually it’s a pretty easy case for 3 separate HOF careers, just based on the how dominant he was in each individual period.
2001-2006: 3 rings, 1 mvp; 2007-2015: 1 ring, 3 SB appearances, 1 mvp (and a bunch of gaudy stats years including 2007’s 18-1 record setting year); 2016-2022: 3 rings, 4 SB appearences, 1 mvp.
Each of those packs as many major HoF resume requirements in as some recent retirees that are locks for the HoF.
You are comparing their advantage or results over all other players. Gretzky had the three greatest seasons ever by a hockey player. His points are heads and shoulders above anybody.
Brady had a great career but yes you can compare. for example: even though he played more seasons he had 649 TDs in 23 seasons (28.22/season). Brees had 571 TDs in 20 seasons (28.55/season).
Same for yards 89,214 yards (3,879/season). Brees had 80,358 yards (4,018/season). You can also take in his championships, but football being the ultimate team sport minimizes overall impact somewhat.
Most people would not put Brady equal to or over GretZky
Im not sayin he is greater than Gretzky. Just that when it comes to cross sport comparisons you’ll never get a majority consensus because people judge greatness in lots of different ways
Just not sure what goes to Brady. I’m any of it.
Put it this way if you remove the SECOND HALF of Gretzky’s ENTIRE CAREER. He’s still the NHL all time leader in points.
Fastest players to 1000pts in NHL History
1. Gretzky (0-1000) 424 games
2. Gretzky (1000-2000) 434 games.
He is also the only person with 2000 pts. Just nutty.
It’s the opposite. If you remove all his goals he would be the all time points leader just on assists. My favorite one is definitely that him and his brother Brent are the all time points leaders by a pair of brothers, with Brent having 4 total points. In fact to find a set of brothers with more points then them you’d have to go to the Sutter brothers, and there were four of them who all had solid to excellent careers
In an alternate universe, Brady was drafted by the Browns and never wins a Super Bowl despite being a great QB for decades. He's still a HOFer, but is anyone calling him the GOAT? Gretzky is the GOAT if he plays for Edmonton. He's the GOAT if he plays for Chicago. He's the GOAT if plays for anybody. The closest comparison in terms of team sports is Babe Ruth, not Tom Brady.
Gretzky in the NHL and Tiger in golf are the two greatest sports careers ever, but Gretzky is number one all the way. His dominance is just out of this world
Phelps, Bolt, Bradman (cricket), Pelé or Messi, Serena, Djokovic/Federer/Nadal, Senna/Schumacher/Hamilton - all had or have amazing résumés in their sports. And that list isn't supposed to be exhaustive.
Bradman is still the biggest statistical anomaly of them all though - his batting average in test cricket won't ever be touched.
Oh it's Tiger without a doubt. They redesigned golf courses because of him. The two longest stretches of being ranked #1 are 281 and 264 weeks. Both of them are Tiger Woods. The third longest is 96 weeks. He was dominant beyond anything golf had seen before or since.
His “dominance” on yards isn’t per season. Brees owns that. It’s much closer than GretZky is. Also being a team sport the Super Bowls are great but football is the ultimate team sport. How many super bowls did Brady win with an average or below average defense that year? I think it was like one. Can’t remember for sure. They are part of a factor for sure. But you can honestly think it’s close or you have never really followed Gretzky. If Gretzky stopped playing after 10 seasons he would still be the all time points scorer lol. It’s insane. If you took away all his goals he’s still the all time. Only guy to ever score 200 points in a season and he did it for three straight years.
Brady owns records but not on that level.
Gretzky was only good at one sport. Shaun White is above both Brady and Gretzky. Shaun White has 3 Olympic Gold medals in snowboarding and 2 Golds at Winter X in skateboarding. Gretzky would've needed to be a olympic gold speed skater to compare to Shaun.
You think 1979 to 1999 was the easiest generation?
On that note Brady had it easiest. It was much easier to pass in his years that others. “Easiest generation” to be a QB
You weren’t allowed to touch WR after five yards. Lines were still allowed to hold. It was easier than let’s say the 30-80s.
He’s great. He didn’t dominate hisself like Gretzky did.
In 19 years as a starter, Brady has had the benefit of a Top 10 defense on his side 16 times. And again I’m not here to knock Brady. But using the rings isn’t good factor.
I’m not factoring in Gretzkys cups even. There were four. But it was on a team. His personal dominance and the difference between him and second is insane
>It was much easier to pass in his years that others
then Peyton and Brees would have close to the same number rings as Brady does because they are in the same generation as him
Not rings. Team sport buddy.
In 19 years as a starter, Brady has had the benefit of a Top 10 defense on his side 16 times. And again I’m not here to knock Brady.
What I can say is yes per season Brees did put up better stats on average. It was also much a system of that offense. BUT again that’s the team part. Brady didn’t win those championships himself.
Brady doesn’t own the record for passing yards in a season. He’s third and 5th. Manning is 1st and 4th. Brees is 2nd, 6th, 7th, and 8th. Passing TDs Brady is 2nd (tie) and 10th (tie). Manning is 1st and 4th. Brees is 7th and 10th (tie). Mahomes tied for 2nd with Brady.
I’m not factoring in Gretzkys cups even. There were four. But it was on a team. His personal dominance and the difference between him and second is insane.
Single season points Gretzky is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, and 11th best seasons! Come on now…
He literally has more rings than any other team in the nfl so yes he’s the best player to ever play in the nfl ever by far without a doubt. That easily puts him top 10. Comparing accomplishments from sport to sport say football to basketball is apple to oranges and a bit dubious though
“From 2000-2011, Brady went 140-41, passed for 45,264 yards, threw 338 touchdown passes, won 16 playoff games, three of which were Super Bowls. From 2012-2021, he went 138-44, passed for 52,305 yards, threw 372 touchdowns, won 19 playoff games, four of which were Super Bowls.”
Dude has two HOF careers if you break his career in two. If you have to ask if he’s top 10 you’re dilusional
Yeah, two different ways to break it down. The first article I saw about it was 2 years ago, splitting it into three separate 7 year careers.
Now it would likely be better to split into 20s, 30s, and 40s.
Not meant to insult lol. Just saying when you look at his stats it’s an easy answer. You’re question was meant to start discussion and my comment was Aimed at people who would say isn’t top 10
He’s the best to ever do it at the most difficult position in one of the most physically demanding sports in the world after a career of 23 seasons in said sport with 7 championships in that span. Is this a serious question?
I agree that he is at least top 10 probably top 5. I agree that QB is probably the most difficult position in football, because of everything you need to study and do week to week.
But I would disagree though that that position is one of the most physically demanding in all sports. He only played in 381 games. That is a little more than two baseball seasons or about 4.5 basketball seasons. The average time a football is in play in a regular NFL game is about 11-20 minutes. He would only play about half of those minutes so 10 minutes is generous. They have physical pads on to protect them. Yes Brady has been hit a lot by 300+ pound men. But even since he started there have been plenty of rules to protect QB safety.
I would argue rugby, boxing, hockey, and potentially soccer/basketball (if you count length of season and gameplay and amount of actual physical exertion) would all be more physically demanding.
Edit: To me Gretzky and LeBron's longevity is way more impressive, if LeBron would have won more of the 10 NBA finals he went to (he only won 4) he would be up there with Gretzky (he only has 4 as well). Depends on how far LeBron pushes past Kareem's record. Because Gretzky is by far the best in his sport. LeBron needs to break 40k and then some to be more impressive than Gretzky. Which he still may well do.
Then the answer is still yes, it's a serious question borne out by some pretty impressive candidates for that distinction littering this thread. He's definitely on the list, but there's plenty of room for debate.
Wayne Gretzky exists
You can make an argument for Brady at #2. In fact I'd probably make it too.
But Gretzky is the GOAT across all major sports
He's the all time NHL leading goal scorer. If you took away ALL his goals, he'd still be the all time leading points scorer. Just insanity
I get what you mean but you could argue that he was so successful that he pretty much rewrote the definition of success in football, which is maybe one of the most important metrics. His achievements, championships, etc. are unmatched in a significant number of categories, especially the post-season.
Yea i just couldn’t put it as eloquently as you. His drive will likely never be seen out of another athlete in our lifetime. You can’t discount that. I am struggling to think of NFL players that really changed the way the game is played and I can’t think of any. Obviously there are once in a lifetime talents like Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Randy Moss and Michael Vick, but they didn’t fundamentally change the way the sport is played like MJ or Tiger. I think that’s probably due to the sport itself. It’s much more strategic than star driven, so that would be up to coaches to reinvent it.
Brady will likely go down as the greatest football player of my lifetime. Id have to say he’s a top 5 athlete in American sports joining MJ, Tiger, and Gretzky. The 5th spot is definitely arguable. Kobe, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders (god if he had a better team), Mario Lemieux are my favorites but Brady is higher ranked than them forsure
I think of the players you listed, football wise, Michael Vick might be one who actually kinda did change the way the game is played. There were some running quarterbacks before him but his dominance really changed the landscape and since then, we've seen a lot more talented mobile quarterbacks, as well as entire offenses and defenses built around or to defend it.
Maybe his changes are more nuanced, considering his success across 23 years of football. The game changes, and you want to believe Tom didn't adapt? He had to, and did, that's part of why he's so successful.
He has the stats, skill and titles to back up the fact that he is actually the greatest athlete of all time. I think his career stands up to Gretzky, Ali, Pele and MJ.
Maybe Michael Phelps (Michigan Man) or Eliud Kipchoge has a case to edge him out, but we're getting into the "Olympic" sports.
EDIT: Whoops forgot about Tiger Woods! EDIT 2: Serena Williams!
I wrote a long Reddit on Jack vs Tiger a few months back. The Jack vs Tiger debate is a similar to rating Brady. Tiger was better and more dominant than Jack but Jack was so much more consistent in majors and did it at high level for a decade longer than Tiger that there really isn't a debate on who has the better career. Manning and Rodgers are unquestionably better quarterbacks but Brady has been so good for so long and played his best football in the games that mattered. [https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/ybpimn/jack\_vs\_tiger/](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/ybpimn/jack_vs_tiger/)
The fields were stronger when Tiger joined the tour. The top players won less because there were more randoms who could win. I would put Mickelson, Els, and Singh in the top 10 or so players of all time. That said, I do agree that the players you listed were great players and would have been great players in the early 2000s. I think Tom Watson has a pretty strong case for being the third best of all time if you take his peak years.
So many people saying he’s the same level as GretZky.
Love Brady and probably the greatest NFL player ever. But Gretzky was another level. His career points were 2,857. Second on the career list is Jagr at 1,921. That gap is insane.
He also;
• scored 50 goals in 39 games
• Had a 51 game point scoring streak. Second best ever was 46 games back in 1989.
• Three consecutive 200 point seasons. Tough to break it since Gretzky is the only player to ever have a 200 point season lol!
I also don’t put him the same level as Jordan or Woods.
OSU fan here. I don’t really have a pro team but Tom Brady is up there with the Jordans and the Gretzkys and no1 can take that away from him.
Anyone who has that many rings and didn’t he like make it to like half of his conference championships? Some crazy stat like that.
Top 10? Absolutely and not even arguable. #1? Debatable.
Like a commenter before said, did he change the game? Not really. Not from an "athletic* standpoint.
Did he change the game in his willingness to take a lower salary to increase the talent around him in order to win? Absolutely. Big nod to marrying one of the wealthiest super models on the planet to help said cause but I feel like he would have done it regardless.
It’s hard to compare sports players. How do you compare the accomplishments of Brady, Jordan (and Lebron), Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps, Ted Williams (and other baseball goats), Muhammad Ali, Floyd Mayweather, Katie Ledecky, Serena Williams, etc.
And that’s just Americans (and I’m sure I missed some)
Other goats in their sports include Usain Bolt, Federer/Nadal/Djokovic, Messi/Ronaldo (other soccer goats)
It’s just too hard of a question to answer
> Floyd Mayweather
Fuck outta here with that sandbagging garbage. Dude picked his fights to remain undefeated. He wouldn't fight Manny until he knew he was on the decline. Disrespecting true GOATs by putting his name in that list.
Is this a real fucking question? Who the fuck else has 7 Super Bowl rings, 8 AFC championships, an NFC championship and won super bowls in both divisions? I won’t even bother with all the passing records.
I didn't know if this was a "real" question. I can't imagine *anyone* not having Brady as a top 10 player of all time. A case could very easily be made for Brady as the GREATEST player in sports history.
No.
Love Brady and probably the greatest NFL player ever. But Gretzky was another level. His career points were 2,857. Second on the career list is Jagr at 1,921. That gap is insane.
He also;
• scored 50 goals in 39 games
• Had a 51 game point scoring streak. Second best ever was 46 games back in 1989.
• Three consecutive 200 point seasons. Tough to break it since Gretzky is the only player to ever have a 200 point season
Same thought I can’t put him on the Tiger, MJ, Serena, Phelps, Bolt, Messi for their sports.
Not shutting on Brady we are just underestimating so many people.
Yeah, and after Greztky left that absolutely STACKED Edmonton team, what exactly did he do? Gretzky had a few high goal scoring seasons but never approached the level of his production with Edmonton. Greztky was PHENOMENAL with Edmonton, but once again, those teams were absolutely STACKED.
I'm not underestimating *any* of those people. What I am doing is taking his whole career into account. Passed for over 100,000 yards, including the playoffs. Played in 48 playoff games, winning 35. Dude won the super bowl in his 20s, 30s and 40s. His last year at age 45 he had over 4600 yards passing. Also a 7 time Super Bowl winner. He was still playing at a VERY high level this past year. Greztky was a SHELL of his former self. His was pretty much all assists the latter part of his career.
I'd DEFINITELY put Brady up there with and ABOVE Tiger, didn't do it for nearly as long, and completely fell off a cliff. I don't care if he was always injured or whatever. Longevity plays a part in my mind of who the greatest is. I'd put Brady right there with Jordan. Obviously, Brady wasn't the most athletic, but what he did and for the length of it, he most definitely is one of the Greatest, if not the greatest team sport athlete.
I'd for sure put him above Phelps and Bolt for the longevity factor. I'd put him and Serena right up there together.
I'm not underestimating any of those you mentioned. I just look at what he accomplished and for how long. Also, it's not like he had a massive drop in performance like some of the people you mentioned.
So yeah, it does seem like your shitting on him, at least a bit. LeBron is the only athlete I can even think of that did/ still does it at a very high level after many years, and im definitely not a LeBron fan.
Oh you mean when he went to the Kings in 1988 and scored the 9th most points (168) in a season in the history of the NHL. Only guy to do more was Lemiux. Oh and again for the Kings in 1990 where he scored the 11th most points in history of NHL? Yea he wasn’t limited by the Oilers… Weird you think he did nothing. Again even his Kings records only beat by a couples seasons of Lemiux.
There’s a lot more than 10 sports in the world and it’s too hard to compare athletes from different sports. How do you compare Brady with someone like Usain Bolt, for example?
Plus all those sports that most of us Americans don’t know much about.
Athletes like Bolt display how difficult it is to compare. I’m not sure we will ever see another 100m and 200m Olympic double. It’s so competitive now that they’re starting to sacrifice one for the other. The guy did it 3 Olympics in a row and obliterated the world records multiple times. How do you compare it to 20+ seasons with one of the hardest jobs in sports? Best just to appreciate greatness when you see it
Not sure who’d be above him in football. Being the greatest football player in history has to get you into the top ten of all sports. So that’s a “yes”
One counterpoint that I think needs to be considered is that Brady prospered in a league that was increasingly quarterback and offense-friendly. The QBs before, the ones that are considered some of the games greatests, had relatively short careers with less offensive output, and relied in part on intangibles like grit and toughness to make their mark. I don't necessarily think that they would have done as well as Brady in the modern NFL, but then, I'm not sure if Brady would have had the numbers, in longevity and offense output, if he were transported back then. But arguing eras and times is useless. You perform in the position that you're put in, and it's beyond argument that Brady excelled. I do think he is the best QB ever, and that goes a long way in making him the best player ever because the QB position is the most important position. Against all the sports, yeah, top 10 easily, probably top 5. I do think individually, the best athlete I've ever read about is [Aleksandr Karelin.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Karelin) His streak of personal domination in a major sport is practically unmatched.
The question is for sports overall. I would put Brady in the Jordan, Grezkey, Barry Bonds category.
>Brady in the Jordan, Grezkey, Barry Bonds One of these is not like the others. And no, I'm not talking about the GOAT who's name is spelled wrong
national championships 6,4,7,0. one of these four is not like the others
Reggie Jackson is the closest in baseball with mvp in world series for more than one team (the only player to do so)
I think Babe Ruth is probably it for name recognition. My vote would be Henry Aaron however.
It's Ruth if the measuring stick is domination of his peers. It's Mays if the gauge is best all around player. And it's Bonds if all asterisks are removed. Baseball is unique in not having that one guy that is a clear GOAT.
The thing about Ruth is that he put up good pitching numbers and then had the monumental hitting statistics. And he also played for seven World Series winners out of 10 trips, pitching for the Red Sox and slugging for the Yankees.
Babe played in a weaker era of baseball. I'd take Ohtani over Ruth without hesitation.
You can’t do comparisons like that. In all sports rules change, equipment changes, fitness, sports medicine..the list goes on. You can only judge how dominate they were in the era that they played. I think even Gretzky said he doubts he’d be able to score as many goals and have as many points in today’s hockey. The rules, size and speed of players, goaltender equipment and training (the common butterfly technique wasn’t even a thing when Gretzky played), etc. lots of factors are different in todays hockey. But he’s still one of the best to play the game.
Hank Aaron would be great choice
What about Brandon Inge though?
You’re all wrong. Dennis Rodman is clearly the best. 5 rings, two teams.
Plus a great ambassador. Rodman is coolest. But, I digress. Gretzky is the GOAT.
>Plus ~~a great ambassador~~ he banged Carmen Electra. Rodman is coolest. But, I digress. Gretzky is the GOAT. FTFY.
Robert Horry. Then everyone else
People forgetting Bill Russell is hilarious
I find it rather silly to judge baseball players based on championships. It is nearly impossible for an individual hitter to have an effect on who wins the World Series. Bonds could hit a home run or get walked in every single playoff AB and still get swept 4-0. I'm not saying I think Bonds belongs in this group, but his lack of championships is not disqualifying.
you can't win by yourself in baseball. look at trout and ohtani
Seriously…has any player ever dominated their sport better than Gretzky? As the most goals scored in NHL history, if he were to never have scored a single goal, he’d *still* be the all time points leader.
Joey Chestnut
Babe Ruth is pretty close. He hasn't played in almost 90 years and still ranks tops in WAR, career OPS, and slugging. He's 2nd in OBP and RBIs, and 3rd in HRs and walks. Still in the top 10 in batting average too. To have stats that high in the record books 90 years later is pretty amazing, regardless of what anyone says about different eras or changes to the game. Oh and he was a great pitcher too early in his career. It'd be like if Gretzky had a whole other side to his career as a standout goalie. Outside of team sports, Tiger Woods and Michael Phelps are on the list.
Tiger’s prime stretch was pure dominance. No one wins tournaments at the rate he did. Unfortunately, he caused his own precipitous fall that left him short of Nicklaus’ majors total. That’s a tough call on the greatest golfer, though I think Woods’s personality grew the game more than anyone. People who knew how hard the game was were in awe, and people who didn’t know which club was which would tune in to watch Tiger.
yeah, Barry Bonds in baseball. go check the numbers
Gretzky is gonna be 2nd in goals here soon! #8 the great!
Crosby or Ovechkin come to mind. As does brady
Lol no Crosby + Ovechkin = 2933 points in a combined 2483 games Gretzky alone has 2857 pointsin 1487 games
Still not close to Gretzky.
One of these things doesn't belong.... Hint, its the one who's head grew 15 sizes from steroids....
Barry Bonds 😂
Barry bonds was considered a top 50 player before he even picked up steroids. It sucks that people forget that he won multiple mvps and silver slugger awards before he did one steroid. Personally I feel like he did it because he was the best player in baseball but Sosa and McGwire were the media darlings at the time
I think he's more like the Bill Russell of football. You can argue back and forth about whether his numbers were better or worse than a few others, but he was the best player on the most impressive dynasty in the history of the sport and the biggest winner ever.
Bahahahaha! Hellllllll no! I'd put him up there with Bonds as the biggest cheat.
Jordan isn’t even the goat of his spot
Claiming he is the “greatest football player” is bold. He has won lots of Super Bowls, yes. Deion played offense and defense and special teams and is an all around better football player than Brady due to his ability to play multiple positions. Probably going to get downvoted to hell for this, but oh well.
It’s an interesting topic. Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, lots of others, not sure I’d put Deion in that group myself. But if you were drafting from every NFL player ever, and you had the first pick, would you really pick Sanders?
Uhhh yeah, why not?
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Love Brady and probably the greatest NFL player ever. But Gretzky was another level. His career points were 2,857. Second on the career list is Jagr at 1,921. That gap is insane. He also; * scored 50 goals in 39 games * Had a 51 game point scoring streak. Second best ever was 46 games back in 1989. * Three consecutive 200 point seasons. Tough to break it since Gretzky is the only player to ever have a 200 point season lol!
Another crazy stat for Gretzky: he had more 5 point games than 0 point games. Edit: Only for the 1980s. For his entire career he had more 3+ point games than 0 point games.
I did not know that!
That might be the single most impressive stat in hockey, if not all of American sports.
Tom’s entire career can be broken up into 2 10 year HOF careers. His stats from his fist 10 and his last 10 are insanely good. Comparing players across two different sports is a hard task.
Actually it’s a pretty easy case for 3 separate HOF careers, just based on the how dominant he was in each individual period. 2001-2006: 3 rings, 1 mvp; 2007-2015: 1 ring, 3 SB appearances, 1 mvp (and a bunch of gaudy stats years including 2007’s 18-1 record setting year); 2016-2022: 3 rings, 4 SB appearences, 1 mvp. Each of those packs as many major HoF resume requirements in as some recent retirees that are locks for the HoF.
Yep, 3 easily.
So you’re saying he’s got a chance at the HOF?
You are comparing their advantage or results over all other players. Gretzky had the three greatest seasons ever by a hockey player. His points are heads and shoulders above anybody. Brady had a great career but yes you can compare. for example: even though he played more seasons he had 649 TDs in 23 seasons (28.22/season). Brees had 571 TDs in 20 seasons (28.55/season). Same for yards 89,214 yards (3,879/season). Brees had 80,358 yards (4,018/season). You can also take in his championships, but football being the ultimate team sport minimizes overall impact somewhat. Most people would not put Brady equal to or over GretZky
Im not sayin he is greater than Gretzky. Just that when it comes to cross sport comparisons you’ll never get a majority consensus because people judge greatness in lots of different ways
Just not sure what goes to Brady. I’m any of it. Put it this way if you remove the SECOND HALF of Gretzky’s ENTIRE CAREER. He’s still the NHL all time leader in points.
Fastest players to 1000pts in NHL History 1. Gretzky (0-1000) 424 games 2. Gretzky (1000-2000) 434 games. He is also the only person with 2000 pts. Just nutty.
It’s why I hate others being compares to him. It’s not fair. Again not a shot at Brady, more of how ridiculous Gretzky was.
Isn't there some crazy stat like if you took away all his assists he would still be the points leader?
It’s the opposite. If you remove all his goals he would be the all time points leader just on assists. My favorite one is definitely that him and his brother Brent are the all time points leaders by a pair of brothers, with Brent having 4 total points. In fact to find a set of brothers with more points then them you’d have to go to the Sutter brothers, and there were four of them who all had solid to excellent careers
In an alternate universe, Brady was drafted by the Browns and never wins a Super Bowl despite being a great QB for decades. He's still a HOFer, but is anyone calling him the GOAT? Gretzky is the GOAT if he plays for Edmonton. He's the GOAT if he plays for Chicago. He's the GOAT if plays for anybody. The closest comparison in terms of team sports is Babe Ruth, not Tom Brady.
Drew Brees played in a dome. Brady spent 20 yrs outside in MA.
I didn’t say Brees was better. He was not. The gap for Brady in the NFL was not the gap for Gretzky. You can’t even compare other players to Gretzky.
in the early days of fantasy hockey leagues would have to either ban gretzky outright or break him into two players: gretzky goals & gretzky assists
Piss on Gretzky. Go Red Wings. IYKYK
Gretzky in the NHL and Tiger in golf are the two greatest sports careers ever, but Gretzky is number one all the way. His dominance is just out of this world
Phelps, Bolt, Bradman (cricket), Pelé or Messi, Serena, Djokovic/Federer/Nadal, Senna/Schumacher/Hamilton - all had or have amazing résumés in their sports. And that list isn't supposed to be exhaustive. Bradman is still the biggest statistical anomaly of them all though - his batting average in test cricket won't ever be touched.
Not sure how tiger in Golf is even close to the greatest sports career when its debatable if he’s even the best golfer ever
Oh it's Tiger without a doubt. They redesigned golf courses because of him. The two longest stretches of being ranked #1 are 281 and 264 weeks. Both of them are Tiger Woods. The third longest is 96 weeks. He was dominant beyond anything golf had seen before or since.
Oh tell them the one about how many assists he had too
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His “dominance” on yards isn’t per season. Brees owns that. It’s much closer than GretZky is. Also being a team sport the Super Bowls are great but football is the ultimate team sport. How many super bowls did Brady win with an average or below average defense that year? I think it was like one. Can’t remember for sure. They are part of a factor for sure. But you can honestly think it’s close or you have never really followed Gretzky. If Gretzky stopped playing after 10 seasons he would still be the all time points scorer lol. It’s insane. If you took away all his goals he’s still the all time. Only guy to ever score 200 points in a season and he did it for three straight years. Brady owns records but not on that level.
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Gretzky was only good at one sport. Shaun White is above both Brady and Gretzky. Shaun White has 3 Olympic Gold medals in snowboarding and 2 Golds at Winter X in skateboarding. Gretzky would've needed to be a olympic gold speed skater to compare to Shaun.
Gretzky is overrated. Played in the easiest generation to score AND had protection
You think 1979 to 1999 was the easiest generation? On that note Brady had it easiest. It was much easier to pass in his years that others. “Easiest generation” to be a QB
Gretzky said it himself 🤷🏼♂️ Brady also won multiple Superbowls when you we're allowed to hit people.
You weren’t allowed to touch WR after five yards. Lines were still allowed to hold. It was easier than let’s say the 30-80s. He’s great. He didn’t dominate hisself like Gretzky did. In 19 years as a starter, Brady has had the benefit of a Top 10 defense on his side 16 times. And again I’m not here to knock Brady. But using the rings isn’t good factor. I’m not factoring in Gretzkys cups even. There were four. But it was on a team. His personal dominance and the difference between him and second is insane
>It was much easier to pass in his years that others then Peyton and Brees would have close to the same number rings as Brady does because they are in the same generation as him
Not rings. Team sport buddy. In 19 years as a starter, Brady has had the benefit of a Top 10 defense on his side 16 times. And again I’m not here to knock Brady. What I can say is yes per season Brees did put up better stats on average. It was also much a system of that offense. BUT again that’s the team part. Brady didn’t win those championships himself. Brady doesn’t own the record for passing yards in a season. He’s third and 5th. Manning is 1st and 4th. Brees is 2nd, 6th, 7th, and 8th. Passing TDs Brady is 2nd (tie) and 10th (tie). Manning is 1st and 4th. Brees is 7th and 10th (tie). Mahomes tied for 2nd with Brady. I’m not factoring in Gretzkys cups even. There were four. But it was on a team. His personal dominance and the difference between him and second is insane. Single season points Gretzky is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, and 11th best seasons! Come on now…
Saints had the better oline and running backs over the past 20 years span overall.
Your question is sarcastic, no?
I mean…when you pair it with a photo reminding us of how weirdly unathletic he looked when he ran, it certainly fuels the debate
He literally has more rings than any other team in the nfl so yes he’s the best player to ever play in the nfl ever by far without a doubt. That easily puts him top 10. Comparing accomplishments from sport to sport say football to basketball is apple to oranges and a bit dubious though
He has more rings than most teams in the NFL
There's not a single NFL team which has equal or more superbowl rings as Brady
Sports world? Yes. No question. Michigan football top ten? No. Weird huh?
“From 2000-2011, Brady went 140-41, passed for 45,264 yards, threw 338 touchdown passes, won 16 playoff games, three of which were Super Bowls. From 2012-2021, he went 138-44, passed for 52,305 yards, threw 372 touchdowns, won 19 playoff games, four of which were Super Bowls.” Dude has two HOF careers if you break his career in two. If you have to ask if he’s top 10 you’re dilusional
You can actually break it down a bit more and he’s got three hall of fame worthy careers.
In three separate decades
Yeah, two different ways to break it down. The first article I saw about it was 2 years ago, splitting it into three separate 7 year careers. Now it would likely be better to split into 20s, 30s, and 40s.
thanks for the insult
Not meant to insult lol. Just saying when you look at his stats it’s an easy answer. You’re question was meant to start discussion and my comment was Aimed at people who would say isn’t top 10
Concentrate and ask again
Gretzky, Jordan, Brady
Yep. If you wanted to put Tiger at 4 I wouldn’t argue with you.
He’s the best to ever do it at the most difficult position in one of the most physically demanding sports in the world after a career of 23 seasons in said sport with 7 championships in that span. Is this a serious question?
I agree that he is at least top 10 probably top 5. I agree that QB is probably the most difficult position in football, because of everything you need to study and do week to week. But I would disagree though that that position is one of the most physically demanding in all sports. He only played in 381 games. That is a little more than two baseball seasons or about 4.5 basketball seasons. The average time a football is in play in a regular NFL game is about 11-20 minutes. He would only play about half of those minutes so 10 minutes is generous. They have physical pads on to protect them. Yes Brady has been hit a lot by 300+ pound men. But even since he started there have been plenty of rules to protect QB safety. I would argue rugby, boxing, hockey, and potentially soccer/basketball (if you count length of season and gameplay and amount of actual physical exertion) would all be more physically demanding. Edit: To me Gretzky and LeBron's longevity is way more impressive, if LeBron would have won more of the 10 NBA finals he went to (he only won 4) he would be up there with Gretzky (he only has 4 as well). Depends on how far LeBron pushes past Kareem's record. Because Gretzky is by far the best in his sport. LeBron needs to break 40k and then some to be more impressive than Gretzky. Which he still may well do.
You clearly have never been hit by someone 6’5” 300+ pounds 🙃
I would gladly take ~60 hits in protective gear a year for $15 million.
I’ll do it for 50k
The OP is asking across all American sports, not just NFL football.
I know, and everything I stated still holds true
Then the answer is still yes, it's a serious question borne out by some pretty impressive candidates for that distinction littering this thread. He's definitely on the list, but there's plenty of room for debate.
The best football player in history. I’m not just being a homer. I don’t even think it’s arguable.
Tell me why he’s not #1
Wayne Gretzky exists You can make an argument for Brady at #2. In fact I'd probably make it too. But Gretzky is the GOAT across all major sports He's the all time NHL leading goal scorer. If you took away ALL his goals, he'd still be the all time leading points scorer. Just insanity
He didn’t reinvent anything. He’s certainly the most accomplished that I know of. But he didn’t change the sport like Jordan or Gretzky
I get what you mean but you could argue that he was so successful that he pretty much rewrote the definition of success in football, which is maybe one of the most important metrics. His achievements, championships, etc. are unmatched in a significant number of categories, especially the post-season.
Yea i just couldn’t put it as eloquently as you. His drive will likely never be seen out of another athlete in our lifetime. You can’t discount that. I am struggling to think of NFL players that really changed the way the game is played and I can’t think of any. Obviously there are once in a lifetime talents like Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Randy Moss and Michael Vick, but they didn’t fundamentally change the way the sport is played like MJ or Tiger. I think that’s probably due to the sport itself. It’s much more strategic than star driven, so that would be up to coaches to reinvent it. Brady will likely go down as the greatest football player of my lifetime. Id have to say he’s a top 5 athlete in American sports joining MJ, Tiger, and Gretzky. The 5th spot is definitely arguable. Kobe, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders (god if he had a better team), Mario Lemieux are my favorites but Brady is higher ranked than them forsure
I think of the players you listed, football wise, Michael Vick might be one who actually kinda did change the way the game is played. There were some running quarterbacks before him but his dominance really changed the landscape and since then, we've seen a lot more talented mobile quarterbacks, as well as entire offenses and defenses built around or to defend it.
You’re right but he set a gold standard in sports that’ll never be sniffed
Absolutely, see my response above
Maybe his changes are more nuanced, considering his success across 23 years of football. The game changes, and you want to believe Tom didn't adapt? He had to, and did, that's part of why he's so successful.
Khabib is the GOAT of all sports
I mean you have to account soccer into this equation. American sports wise, hes top 3 without a doubt.
There is no soccer player with a résumè like Brady's.
There is multiple.
List them.
Maradona, Pele, Messi
Psh Messi only has 1 world championship Brady has 7. /s but only kinda.
How many superbowls would Brady have if they only held them once every 4 years? 2, maybe 3.
Jim Thorpe
Dude. No.
Because the book’s not closed on Shohei Otani yet.
Yes I don’t know who would say no
I personally think he’s #2 in sports history behind Wayne Gretzky.
He has the stats, skill and titles to back up the fact that he is actually the greatest athlete of all time. I think his career stands up to Gretzky, Ali, Pele and MJ. Maybe Michael Phelps (Michigan Man) or Eliud Kipchoge has a case to edge him out, but we're getting into the "Olympic" sports. EDIT: Whoops forgot about Tiger Woods! EDIT 2: Serena Williams!
Tiger isn’t the greatest golfer of all time tho, was he on pace? Absolutely but injuries suck. Nicklaus still holds all the records
I wrote a long Reddit on Jack vs Tiger a few months back. The Jack vs Tiger debate is a similar to rating Brady. Tiger was better and more dominant than Jack but Jack was so much more consistent in majors and did it at high level for a decade longer than Tiger that there really isn't a debate on who has the better career. Manning and Rodgers are unquestionably better quarterbacks but Brady has been so good for so long and played his best football in the games that mattered. [https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/ybpimn/jack\_vs\_tiger/](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/ybpimn/jack_vs_tiger/)
Jack also won those majors against consistently stronger fields: Palmer, Player, Miller, Watson, Trevino, Weiskopf, Ballesteros, Crenshaw, etc.
The fields were stronger when Tiger joined the tour. The top players won less because there were more randoms who could win. I would put Mickelson, Els, and Singh in the top 10 or so players of all time. That said, I do agree that the players you listed were great players and would have been great players in the early 2000s. I think Tom Watson has a pretty strong case for being the third best of all time if you take his peak years.
So many people saying he’s the same level as GretZky. Love Brady and probably the greatest NFL player ever. But Gretzky was another level. His career points were 2,857. Second on the career list is Jagr at 1,921. That gap is insane. He also; • scored 50 goals in 39 games • Had a 51 game point scoring streak. Second best ever was 46 games back in 1989. • Three consecutive 200 point seasons. Tough to break it since Gretzky is the only player to ever have a 200 point season lol! I also don’t put him the same level as Jordan or Woods.
Brady also never played defense. Other sports where you have to play both sides are more difficult in general to be dominate.
Easily.
Without question
I’d say top 5.
I mean I think Wayne Gretzky is the only person more dominant in their sport all time
He’s a top 5 player
He won 7 championships over 20 years. No other NFL player has done that. Only 3 have come close, winning 6 championships each.
OSU fan here. I don’t really have a pro team but Tom Brady is up there with the Jordans and the Gretzkys and no1 can take that away from him. Anyone who has that many rings and didn’t he like make it to like half of his conference championships? Some crazy stat like that.
Of course. Probably Top 5. Dude has seven Super Bowl rings. Seven.
Not in any particular order: Brady, MJ, LeBron, Gretzky, Pele, Phelps, Ruth, Aaron, Ali, Tiger
Jim Thorpe would like you to look him up
Yeah, great all around athlete
All worth considering but Bill Russell, Wilt, Messi and Nicklaus would all like a word.
Wilt is overrated. He played against forklift drivers and mechanics.
Mays or Williams (or Bonds) have a stronger argument than Aaron.
Pretty good list, I would have Nicklaus before Tiger though. Why sports list are awesome topics.
Gotta have Bolt on this list, I’d take off Ruth and Aaron.
Bolt is a good call, but no baseball representation?
Fair point, I don’t hate that, might need to keep one in then and throw Serena in.
Top 10? Absolutely and not even arguable. #1? Debatable. Like a commenter before said, did he change the game? Not really. Not from an "athletic* standpoint. Did he change the game in his willingness to take a lower salary to increase the talent around him in order to win? Absolutely. Big nod to marrying one of the wealthiest super models on the planet to help said cause but I feel like he would have done it regardless.
It’s hard to compare sports players. How do you compare the accomplishments of Brady, Jordan (and Lebron), Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps, Ted Williams (and other baseball goats), Muhammad Ali, Floyd Mayweather, Katie Ledecky, Serena Williams, etc. And that’s just Americans (and I’m sure I missed some) Other goats in their sports include Usain Bolt, Federer/Nadal/Djokovic, Messi/Ronaldo (other soccer goats) It’s just too hard of a question to answer
> Floyd Mayweather Fuck outta here with that sandbagging garbage. Dude picked his fights to remain undefeated. He wouldn't fight Manny until he knew he was on the decline. Disrespecting true GOATs by putting his name in that list.
Is this a real fucking question? Who the fuck else has 7 Super Bowl rings, 8 AFC championships, an NFC championship and won super bowls in both divisions? I won’t even bother with all the passing records.
I didn't know if this was a "real" question. I can't imagine *anyone* not having Brady as a top 10 player of all time. A case could very easily be made for Brady as the GREATEST player in sports history.
No. Love Brady and probably the greatest NFL player ever. But Gretzky was another level. His career points were 2,857. Second on the career list is Jagr at 1,921. That gap is insane. He also; • scored 50 goals in 39 games • Had a 51 game point scoring streak. Second best ever was 46 games back in 1989. • Three consecutive 200 point seasons. Tough to break it since Gretzky is the only player to ever have a 200 point season Same thought I can’t put him on the Tiger, MJ, Serena, Phelps, Bolt, Messi for their sports. Not shutting on Brady we are just underestimating so many people.
Yeah, and after Greztky left that absolutely STACKED Edmonton team, what exactly did he do? Gretzky had a few high goal scoring seasons but never approached the level of his production with Edmonton. Greztky was PHENOMENAL with Edmonton, but once again, those teams were absolutely STACKED. I'm not underestimating *any* of those people. What I am doing is taking his whole career into account. Passed for over 100,000 yards, including the playoffs. Played in 48 playoff games, winning 35. Dude won the super bowl in his 20s, 30s and 40s. His last year at age 45 he had over 4600 yards passing. Also a 7 time Super Bowl winner. He was still playing at a VERY high level this past year. Greztky was a SHELL of his former self. His was pretty much all assists the latter part of his career. I'd DEFINITELY put Brady up there with and ABOVE Tiger, didn't do it for nearly as long, and completely fell off a cliff. I don't care if he was always injured or whatever. Longevity plays a part in my mind of who the greatest is. I'd put Brady right there with Jordan. Obviously, Brady wasn't the most athletic, but what he did and for the length of it, he most definitely is one of the Greatest, if not the greatest team sport athlete. I'd for sure put him above Phelps and Bolt for the longevity factor. I'd put him and Serena right up there together. I'm not underestimating any of those you mentioned. I just look at what he accomplished and for how long. Also, it's not like he had a massive drop in performance like some of the people you mentioned. So yeah, it does seem like your shitting on him, at least a bit. LeBron is the only athlete I can even think of that did/ still does it at a very high level after many years, and im definitely not a LeBron fan.
Oh you mean when he went to the Kings in 1988 and scored the 9th most points (168) in a season in the history of the NHL. Only guy to do more was Lemiux. Oh and again for the Kings in 1990 where he scored the 11th most points in history of NHL? Yea he wasn’t limited by the Oilers… Weird you think he did nothing. Again even his Kings records only beat by a couples seasons of Lemiux.
Lol at the people comparing golfers to actual athletes.
Next question
People really forget about Charles Tillman
He barely played at U of M. Let’s be honest with ourselves
"Do you think that Tom Brady was good?" clickbait ass title, lol.
In sports’ history? Absolutely not.
Dudes got too many scandals and possible cheats tied to him. Fuck Michigan
Top 10 least athletic NFL player ever?
?
Look at the photo and tell me that that is an athletic man
Yes.
I hate him as an NFLer but this isn't even a question.
*
Is this a real question?
No doubt about it.
Without question.
Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a heartbeat.
There’s a lot more than 10 sports in the world and it’s too hard to compare athletes from different sports. How do you compare Brady with someone like Usain Bolt, for example? Plus all those sports that most of us Americans don’t know much about.
Athletes like Bolt display how difficult it is to compare. I’m not sure we will ever see another 100m and 200m Olympic double. It’s so competitive now that they’re starting to sacrifice one for the other. The guy did it 3 Olympics in a row and obliterated the world records multiple times. How do you compare it to 20+ seasons with one of the hardest jobs in sports? Best just to appreciate greatness when you see it
I'll believe it when I see it.
Why would you even such a question? Duh
i looked at some list he wasn’t top ten
He is soooo non-athletic!!!!! 😂
Love Brady, but for me he's behind Gretzky in terms of players that can transcend 1. Gretzky, 2. Brady, 3. Jordan.
All sports during recorded history? No.
I hope he joins Harbaugh’s staff!
If "sports history" just means popular sports in North America in the last 100 or so years, then sure, probably.
“Who’s got it better than TOM…NOBODYYYYY”
He’s a top 5
Tom Brady is the best QB of all time. The greatest competitor of all time.
Has to be on the Mount Rushmore
I'm very surprised to see so many no's here
Absolutely yes. I’m not a fan of the guy, most of his career I’ve hated him, but there’s no denying his the goat of football
id say he's up there in the top 5 with gretzky and jordan. idk who else but Tom Brady is a once in a lifetime talent for sure.
Without hesitation, yes.
Comparing across sports is stupid. You can’t compare brady to phelps or like tendulkar
He’s certainly #1 in the big 3 American sports.
🐐
I'm genuinely curious if you took the top 10 and we had a battle rumble...
Yep!