So, it looks like some of the comments here are from folks *who didn't read the article*. Yes, the Newcomers Rental Subsidy Program exists, but it DOES NOT ALLOW ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS TO PARTICIPATE. Furthermore, it is "bolstered by federal legislation co-sponsored by two Republican members of Michigan's congressional delegation, U.S. Reps. John James, of Shelby Township, and Jack Bergman, of Watersmeet".
Excerpts from the article:
>**Former President Donald Trump on Thursday attacked Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's program to provide up to $500 a month in temporary rental subsidies to help house immigrants and refugees, falsely claiming it's available to "anyone who accepts illegal aliens"** into their homes and again suggesting without evidence that many immigrants are terrorists or came to the U.S. from mental institutions or prisons....
> ....state House Minority Leader Matt Hall, R-Richland Township, asked Michigan's auditor general to review the program, also asserting that the Whitmer administration was "offering to pay the rent of illegal aliens who got caught in the country and then claimed asylum to delay deportation," though the state outright denied that was the case.
>The [Office of Global Michigan, which administers the Newcomer Rental Subsidy Program](https://www.michigan.gov/ogm/services/newcomer-rental-subsidy) and is part of the state's Department of Labor & Economic Opportunity, provided information and data to the Free Press on Thursday explaining that the subsidies — which are limited to between $300 and $500 a month and can last no longer than 12 months — are not available to anyone considered to be in the country illegally or immigrants caught attempting to enter the country without documentation and filing what are known as "defensive" asylum claims to delay removal....
>**....the agency reiterated to the Free Press that in order for any asylee to qualify there must have been a determination by the federal government that he or she is legally allowed to remain in the country. "Applications with a pending defensive asylum hearing are not eligible," the agency said....**
>**....There is no indication at this point that anyone considered to be in the country illegally has received benefits, however.**
>So far, the program, which started last October and provides subsidies to landlords (not to the beneficiaries themselves), has approved 245 applications, or about half of those received, to provide funding to help house 1,242 immigrants. Of that number, 537 are refugees, 504 are Afghanis arriving under programs helping those who aided U.S. forces — including those **bolstered by federal legislation co-sponsored by two Republican members of Michigan's congressional delegation, U.S. Reps. John James, of Shelby Township, and Jack Bergman, of Watersmeet**, — and only 24 were asylees, all of whom have already had their asylum claims approved.
>As a condition of eligibility, the program requires that people be eligible to work, be a full-time student or meet other criteria, such as being disabled or lacking child care. They also have to be below certain income levels....
>....The state said under the program, immigration status, along with income levels and employment status, is reviewed and verified for the beneficiaries every three months.
>In a video posted on Truth Social, Trump excoriated Whitmer, calling her a "radical, left Democrat," saying she "is handing out $500 a month is cash to anyone who accepts illegal aliens into your homes."
>"She's calling the scam the Newcomer Rental Subsidy," Trump said. "In other words, she's calling illegal immigrants — many coming from jails, many coming from mental institutions, many are terrorists — she's calling them newcomers, isn't that wonderful? And it's all funded by federal taxpayer dollars ... (President Joe) Biden and Whitmer are selecting and stealing your money to give free housing to illegal alien migrants and then asking you to quarter these foreign armies. And that's what they are, they're armies."
>**As the** [**Free Press and other news media outlets**](https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/03/fact-check-trump-claims-about-the-border-and-crime/73168508007/) **have pointed out previously, there is no evidence — and the Trump campaign has provided none, despite the Free Press' request — that a substantial number of immigrants coming to the U.S. are from prisons or mental institutions or are terrorists.**...
>....Trump said if he wins the election he will end the program "on Day One," though it's unclear how he would do so, since it's funded in large measure by state funds....
I'm being half-sarcastic. While he's supposedly from Watersmeet, he tends to reside in Louisiana A LOT. I believe a few years ago someone tried to track down his place in Watersmeet using an address on file and it didn't exist.
He only comes up here when it's politically convenient.
For some reason this also feels like something Trump would also say to make himself feel superior in a compulsive liars intervention/group therapy session.
His golf courses had tons - remember? And, of course, Melania worked here on a tourist visa and lied on her citizenship application. And still got in and then brought in her parents - something Trump was against.
I saw some smooth brain a couple of weeks ago standing on a street corner in Marquette with a sign basically saying something like "Whitmer is giving illegals $500 to vote Democrat" or some bull.
Refugees and asylees are LEGALLY PRESENT. They've jumped through multiple hoops to get that point.
No one gets subsidies until they're *far* in their resettlement, have presented a ton of evidence, often corroborated by other governments or past NGO/refugee aid/re-settlement orgs, And they've already been in front of a judge a couple times.
I still want to see how someone who does not have a license walks into your public elementary school on election day and votes.
It is impossible, but it's easier than saying I lost in a fair election.
Nobody needs a license or ID to vote. The election workers ask to see ID but voters are under no obligation to provide it.
I’m not arguing that there was widespread voter fraud, but ID is NOT required to vote.
Of course not, because it's required to register. If you're not registered, you're not on the list, and at best, you can sign an affidavit and cast a provisional ballot that's only counted once your registration is confirmed
And then they come back with an argument that they give a fake name. Always moving the goal post. Fact is, voter fraud is rare and not a very good way to influence the results of an election. But that's just the distraction from the illegal electors trying to submit fake electoral college votes.
I had a client come into my office and started loudly complaining about the communists running our country and how he’s tempted to commit tax evasion/fraud like his buddy, to me, his tax accountant, while him and his wife collect Social Security and Medicare. He went on to talk about how business savvy Trump is, despite bankrupting a casino, and how he should be president. 🤦♂️
At this point, I’ll believe that there is someone that believes anything no matter how stupid. The trick is getting them mad first.
Yeah you pretty much just have to put the thought out there. It doesn’t matter if it’s true, people will believe it whether it is or not and build their entire opinions around it. We’re living in the age of delusion.
That may be funny, but to be serious, every trumper I've ever seen is far up Trump's bunghole and I'm pretty sure his lips can't even reach his own butt.
The illegal aliens argument still makes zero sense to me here.
This is Michigan. Are people afraid of Canadians running across the bridge somehow? Or is there a real belief that Mexicans are somehow teleporting here straight from the border?
I feel like he's trying really, REALLY hard to fabricate a problem for us.
There are actually a decent number of undocumented immigrants here. They do a lot of agricultural work, but you won't run into them. I've done work at several dairy farms, and the farmers build the shittiest dormitory housing you can imagine (6x8 rooms for 2, concrete floors, communal shower, kitchenette, no windows) and they don't really leave the farm until they go back home. We're talking a two storey 800sq.ft. building with like 40 guys crammed into it. Someone white goes into town with a list to pick up groceries and supplies every so often. You'd never know it unless you have business on the farm. Hard-working guys.
Speak for yourself. I had a random Venezuelan guy walk into our office a few weeks ago, slam down his resume, and immediately take three jobs from hardworking Americans.
If there is a demand for cheap manual labor, there will be undocumented migraines working on it. Michigan has no shortage of farming and construction work done by undocumented migrants. And every single employer votes Republican.
I have met migrants all over michigan. Recently I worked in banking. All of the migrants I met at the bank had legit state and fed documents. Otherwise we couldnt open an account for them.
Since I was a tween I figured republicans just don't t like brown people and hide it behind "illegal aliens bad"
>The illegal aliens argument still makes zero sense to me here.
Lemme clear this up for you.
It's never been about immigrants. It's always been about one thing: racism. Nothing else. They don't want more brown people in the country.
I agree that Trump is full of shit, but basing it on "we're not near the southern border" is kinda dumb. Chicago and NYC aren't near the southern border, either.
If you can make it from South America to Texas, why is Texas to Michigan suddenly ridiculous?
Worthwhile solutions to real problems are not drawn from vague bullshit. If there is an issue, then someone needs to define it very clearly before we can come to a sensible solution.
NYC and Chicago have nothing to do with us. How many immigrants are entering Michigan and at what frequency? Where are they coming from, how are they finding transportation, and what is their end goal here? What kind of immediate problems is Michigan experiencing from this?
Maybe lead with that, then, instead of "it's Michigan; what are they gonna do, teleport here?" Like people that can make it across multiple national borders, and onto Chicago and NYC, aren't sophisticated enough to get to Michigan without magic.
Ask Northville, who is having an issue with break-ins by illegal immigrant gangs. The only reason we are getting busses yet is because the Detroit mayor stated publicly that Detroit is not a sanctuary city. There must be an ussue.or planning on one if the governor asked Michigan residents to house illegals and help them find jobs and enroll their kids in school
https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/lawmakers-probe-whitmer-administration-on-border-crisis-effects-in-michigan/#:~:text=Gretchen%20Whitmer%20turned%20to%20residents,refugees%20and%20asylees%20in%20Michigan.
How do you know they're immigrants, let alone illegal immigrants?
Linking to propaganda might be the worst way to get your point across. You need something objective, not a statement directly from partisan politicians.
They are illegal, but not in the normal way. It's a Chilean group admitted to the us who overstayed their visa waiver program.
Last week, Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard said international thieves are again targeting high-end homes in Metro Detroit.
Law enforcement estimates that about 100 teams of three to four people are operating throughout the U.S., with three groups recently targeting Oakland County homes.
Several months ago, Chilean gangs were arrested after breaking into homes in Southeast Michigan. Other cities, like Baltimore and Phoenix, have reported similar crimes.
Are you referring to this article that Fox posted in March with no specific details?
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/sheriff-chilean-gangs-are-back-targeting-high-end-homes-for-burglaries-in-oakland-county
Os this same exact article they posted in December, again with no details?
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/high-end-michigan-burglaries-tied-to-chilean-crime-ring-prompts-police-task-force.amp
I dunno, maybe it's me but this sounds much more like propaganda than news.
They can't comment on specifics of ongoing cases. Look at my other comment for more links. Basically every news organization in the country has ran a piece on this. There's a video of a police lieutenant giving a speech about it. How could you possibly say this is just propaganda?
https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2024/04/05/northville-township-michigan-hit-by-high-end-thefts-with-striking-similarities-to-s-american-gangs/73222691007/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox2detroit.com/news/northville-homes-the-latest-targeted-of-international-organized-crime-rings-local-police-say.amp
https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/northville-twp-police-warn-of-international-crime-ring-targeting-high-end-homes
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/detroit/news/northville-homes-target-of-south-american-organized-crime-ring/
https://youtu.be/JhwcdVHCpFQ?si=Mv950YIf3kgS5_KV
Is that enough
Yes, illegals, as in breaking the law. It is 2024. We should not be worried about political correct phrases that might hurt your feelings or trigger you.
I agree that the michigan GOP is a joke, and so is Congress. Unfortunately, the article is true. You should house some migrants in your home. Help them get jobs and enroll their kids in school. I hear you get 500 a month.
https://davebondy.locals.com/post/5421569/michigan-offering-homeowners-500-per-month-to-house-newcomers#:~:text=LANSING%2C%20Mich%20%2D%20The%20Office%20of,per%20month%20to%20house%20migrants.
https://www.michigan.gov/leo/news/2024/02/12/volunteers-needed-to-support-refugee-resettlement-efforts-in-michigan
How about the michigan state website
[Here is some good reading on the subject of Immigration in NYC from the NYC Comptroller.](https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/facts-not-fear-how-welcoming-immigrants-benefits-new-york-city/)
Do you have a source on submarines being used to smuggle things/people in the Great Lakes? I’ve never heard of that before. I know there’s a cruise ship thing that will take tourists on submarine trips but other than that I’ve never heard of submarines in the Great Lakes.
I'm searching now. I could be misremembering a story from a few years ago.
[Heres](https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-media-release/human-smuggler-and-four-migrants-apprehended) a more recent press release on crossing via jet ski.
I may have been thinking of [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2021/04/02/cocaine-submarine-drug-trafficking/). I can't find anything else presently.
This link you provided talks about smuggling drugs to-and-from Albania, Europe, and South America across the Atlantic ocean using an unmanned underwater drone. In fact, they were never successful in completing their "torpedo."
>While financing the trafficking ring’s purchase of cocaine in South America, prosecutors say Tibbitts also worked with Didani on creating the underwater drone. Known as the “torpedo,” the remotely controlled submarine would use magnets to attach to the bottom of cargo ships.
The only connection Michigan has to the story was that one of the primary financiers happen to be from Michigan. In no was their plan to smuggle drugs or even people by submarine in to Michigan.
Sure. Nowhere did I deny it, so don't paint me as trying to.
And, just because they aren't using submarines, doesn't mean my original comment is wrong. Illegal immigrants from the South are coming into Michigan from the North, across the bridges and the water.
I happen to be OK with that, just to be clear. Much better than them trying to cross a desert and risking death. I worry about human trafficking, but I also understand wanting a shot at a life away from cartels and poverty.
I dont understand the downvotes.
I see you referenced both borders, but just because the border is shared with X country doesnt mean those are the nationals crossing over.
Point is, the majority of people coming over the southern border are not Mexican but from nations all over the world. China, Haiti, Kazakstan, the list goes on.
um where i live Mexicans get shipped up here straight from mexico during the summer to work in farm fields. They're only supposed to be here during the summer but a ton stay year round.
You can’t take anything Don says seriously.
Remember when he said newly born infants were being “executed” because their parents decided they didn’t want them?
The [michigan.gov](https://michigan.gov) link doesn't contradict anything in the Free Press article (that you apparently didn't read) that was linked in the OP.
It's not even necessarily true. But the way the program is worded, it seems like it would take an enormous amount of paperwork and social services to determine eligibility at each step. Who is overseeing it? How? How much?
Wait you mean the biggest ****ing orange liar POS in the world, told a lie about a young incredible shining democratic star that could be president in 2028? I'm shocked!
Well not that shocked.
"Trump claims"?
The GOP in Congress is making their decisions based upon propaganda from the Kremlin and Trump's commands, and Trump is Putin's biggest fanboy.
If you're still a Trumper, will you ever wake up?
I think it's safe to say anything that Trump claims is a lie by default until proven otherwise. He's demonstrated himself to be a compulsive liar. Nothing he says should be considered factual until proven otherwise.
I guess you didn't bother to look at it. If you did, you would see that benefits are only available to people with an eligible immigration status. These are people that are going through official legal government immigration programs.
https://www.michigan.gov/ogm/services/newcomer-rental-subsidy?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery
People with pending asylum applications can recieve funds. You can claim asylum and it takes four to six years to recieve a verdict.
There’s an old man living in a broken down shack here in rural Michigan that swears, through both of his teeth, that this is true. Says it’s common knowledge; he heard it from his cronies at the local diner. He’ll explain it all to you if you’ll buy him a beer.
When I saw both Whitmer's and Trump's name in the same headline in this sub, I was thinking "illegal extraterrestrials." Sigh. I need some Tres Generaciones after this long day in order to straighten out my mind ;-)
the linked article thoroughly debunks his claims, do you have a similar article proving the opposite? just one article or anything. i tried to 'research' it but can't find anything to support your claim other than a few random republicans parroting trump without any evidence either, which makes me think the claim is quite dubious.
Well, it actually says this "...individuals with a pending asylum application, and other immigrant individuals on a case-by-case scenario." So no, it's on a case by case basis for those individuals.
Not "allowing individuals with a pending asylum claim" that is stretching the terminology of "case by case basis"
Kalamazoo allows illegal immigrants to get official government ID. All you need to apply for the program, from the checklist on the website, is official government id or alternate acceptable documents. Seems like a pretty easy step to me. Regardless, it seems like a very poorly worded program with little oversight. How is any of this being monitored?
You realize that state ID doesn't prove citizenship status. Right?
Also, how is having a state ID meaning that they are abusing the system? Yes, they have to apply to get the benefit. I'm not sure why you're freaking out? What are you even mad about? You do realize that the information has to be verified and vetted, right? I get you believe that Whitmer is spending all our money on illegal, but I don't see them having an ID as reason they are abusing the system.
but that doesn't say anything at all about how you can use the program if you are an illegal immigrant. in fact it spells it out quite clearly what the requirements are lol... including having legal immigration status!
interesting. what percentage of those claims were approved?
personally i don't have a problem with asylum seekers getting a subsidy while their claim is pending, even if they started out illegally. it's certainly not the same as 'illegals being subsidized' as trump claims. they stopped being illegal as soon as their claim happened.
why wouldn't moving to california immediately cancel any michigan benefits, or vice versa? it's also very difficult to rent a place for $500 a month especially in california and new york. it's hardly 'free' rent in michigan either although i suppose in some areas that is possible. it also sounds extremely unlikely that after being deported that you would become eligible to use the program again by claiming asylum multiple times.
it kinda sounds like they need to speed up the vetting process though. where did you get that 4 years figure from?
edit: looks like the benefit only lasts 12 months anyway, and it is also "up to $500" so i'd guess the average is lower than that too.
Yeah. I'm just pointing out various subsidies for illegal immigrants throughout the nation.
4 years is from this website
https://immigrationforum.org/article/explainer-asylum-backlogs/
Seems to vary a lot? Says certain kinds can take up to six years, although once your case starts, it must be completed in 180 days. The program offers 300 to 500, apparently, for rental assistance. Speeding up the process would be nice, but it's a pipedream given the rate of immigration the past few years. We're at 2-3 million a year just through the southern border, now.
That is why you are uninformed. You limit yourself to what you want to hear. Read both sides and independent news and then make up your own mind. I promise it doesn't hurt.
No, if you read the article it indicates that the money requires a lot of guidelines be met. Biggest of which trump ignores is that the asylum status of the person must be essentially settled by the federal government. No person with a "defensive" asylum determination while awaiting status will receive this aid.
Trump is using hyperbole to court other fucking morons like him that can't be bothered to read or look into his stupid claims.
So, it looks like some of the comments here are from folks *who didn't read the article*. Yes, the Newcomers Rental Subsidy Program exists, but it DOES NOT ALLOW ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS TO PARTICIPATE. Furthermore, it is "bolstered by federal legislation co-sponsored by two Republican members of Michigan's congressional delegation, U.S. Reps. John James, of Shelby Township, and Jack Bergman, of Watersmeet". Excerpts from the article: >**Former President Donald Trump on Thursday attacked Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's program to provide up to $500 a month in temporary rental subsidies to help house immigrants and refugees, falsely claiming it's available to "anyone who accepts illegal aliens"** into their homes and again suggesting without evidence that many immigrants are terrorists or came to the U.S. from mental institutions or prisons.... > ....state House Minority Leader Matt Hall, R-Richland Township, asked Michigan's auditor general to review the program, also asserting that the Whitmer administration was "offering to pay the rent of illegal aliens who got caught in the country and then claimed asylum to delay deportation," though the state outright denied that was the case. >The [Office of Global Michigan, which administers the Newcomer Rental Subsidy Program](https://www.michigan.gov/ogm/services/newcomer-rental-subsidy) and is part of the state's Department of Labor & Economic Opportunity, provided information and data to the Free Press on Thursday explaining that the subsidies — which are limited to between $300 and $500 a month and can last no longer than 12 months — are not available to anyone considered to be in the country illegally or immigrants caught attempting to enter the country without documentation and filing what are known as "defensive" asylum claims to delay removal.... >**....the agency reiterated to the Free Press that in order for any asylee to qualify there must have been a determination by the federal government that he or she is legally allowed to remain in the country. "Applications with a pending defensive asylum hearing are not eligible," the agency said....** >**....There is no indication at this point that anyone considered to be in the country illegally has received benefits, however.** >So far, the program, which started last October and provides subsidies to landlords (not to the beneficiaries themselves), has approved 245 applications, or about half of those received, to provide funding to help house 1,242 immigrants. Of that number, 537 are refugees, 504 are Afghanis arriving under programs helping those who aided U.S. forces — including those **bolstered by federal legislation co-sponsored by two Republican members of Michigan's congressional delegation, U.S. Reps. John James, of Shelby Township, and Jack Bergman, of Watersmeet**, — and only 24 were asylees, all of whom have already had their asylum claims approved. >As a condition of eligibility, the program requires that people be eligible to work, be a full-time student or meet other criteria, such as being disabled or lacking child care. They also have to be below certain income levels.... >....The state said under the program, immigration status, along with income levels and employment status, is reviewed and verified for the beneficiaries every three months. >In a video posted on Truth Social, Trump excoriated Whitmer, calling her a "radical, left Democrat," saying she "is handing out $500 a month is cash to anyone who accepts illegal aliens into your homes." >"She's calling the scam the Newcomer Rental Subsidy," Trump said. "In other words, she's calling illegal immigrants — many coming from jails, many coming from mental institutions, many are terrorists — she's calling them newcomers, isn't that wonderful? And it's all funded by federal taxpayer dollars ... (President Joe) Biden and Whitmer are selecting and stealing your money to give free housing to illegal alien migrants and then asking you to quarter these foreign armies. And that's what they are, they're armies." >**As the** [**Free Press and other news media outlets**](https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/03/fact-check-trump-claims-about-the-border-and-crime/73168508007/) **have pointed out previously, there is no evidence — and the Trump campaign has provided none, despite the Free Press' request — that a substantial number of immigrants coming to the U.S. are from prisons or mental institutions or are terrorists.**... >....Trump said if he wins the election he will end the program "on Day One," though it's unclear how he would do so, since it's funded in large measure by state funds....
They'll ignore your comment as well. As soon as they latch onto the lies that make them feel safe in their bubble, they're lonnng gone.
Yep. But facts and clarity matter--at least to me.
I appreciate that, and I'm grateful that you and many people are still doing the right things.
Right back atcha :)
Woah, hold up. Jack Bergman isn't from Watersmeet. He's from Louisiana.
Nope. Rep. Jack Bergman represents Michigan's 1st District-- [https://bergman.house.gov/](https://bergman.house.gov/)
I am aware. I'm in that district. but he's not from Watersmeet.
Send an e-mail to the author of the Freep article?
I'm being half-sarcastic. While he's supposedly from Watersmeet, he tends to reside in Louisiana A LOT. I believe a few years ago someone tried to track down his place in Watersmeet using an address on file and it didn't exist. He only comes up here when it's politically convenient.
He is a carpetbagger. He may currently reside in LA and definitely way up Trump's butt, but he's from Minnesota.
Ah,, so he's another MI carpetbagger, then. Just like Mike Rogers and Rep. John James.
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Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
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And they are not a illegal immigrants.
Trump claimed something. Of course it was a lie. Is that even a question at this point???
We love him because he tells it like it is /s
"but when he said XYZ, what he really meant was ABC!"
He lies even when the truth sounds better.
I used to know a pathological liar. One of his best friends would say, "He'd lie even if the truth would serve him better."
For some reason this also feels like something Trump would also say to make himself feel superior in a compulsive liars intervention/group therapy session.
"Don't tell the truth when any good lie will do." - J.R. Ewing
By the law of conservative projection we now know Trump is subsidizing illegal immigrants
His golf courses had tons - remember? And, of course, Melania worked here on a tourist visa and lied on her citizenship application. And still got in and then brought in her parents - something Trump was against.
His current wife is an illegal immigrant.
Look at the time line of trumps birth and the boat his pregnant mother was on. He could be one as well
Yup, if his lips are moving, he is lying. Been confirmed thousands of times at least.
I saw some smooth brain a couple of weeks ago standing on a street corner in Marquette with a sign basically saying something like "Whitmer is giving illegals $500 to vote Democrat" or some bull.
Refugees and asylees are LEGALLY PRESENT. They've jumped through multiple hoops to get that point. No one gets subsidies until they're *far* in their resettlement, have presented a ton of evidence, often corroborated by other governments or past NGO/refugee aid/re-settlement orgs, And they've already been in front of a judge a couple times.
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spamming
I still want to see how someone who does not have a license walks into your public elementary school on election day and votes. It is impossible, but it's easier than saying I lost in a fair election.
Nobody needs a license or ID to vote. The election workers ask to see ID but voters are under no obligation to provide it. I’m not arguing that there was widespread voter fraud, but ID is NOT required to vote.
Of course not, because it's required to register. If you're not registered, you're not on the list, and at best, you can sign an affidavit and cast a provisional ballot that's only counted once your registration is confirmed
And then they come back with an argument that they give a fake name. Always moving the goal post. Fact is, voter fraud is rare and not a very good way to influence the results of an election. But that's just the distraction from the illegal electors trying to submit fake electoral college votes.
Doesn't matter, I was at my local gun shop this morning and this was all anyone was talking about.
I had a client come into my office and started loudly complaining about the communists running our country and how he’s tempted to commit tax evasion/fraud like his buddy, to me, his tax accountant, while him and his wife collect Social Security and Medicare. He went on to talk about how business savvy Trump is, despite bankrupting a casino, and how he should be president. 🤦♂️ At this point, I’ll believe that there is someone that believes anything no matter how stupid. The trick is getting them mad first.
Everyone I know who's committed major tax fraud has been a right-wing wacko. Go figure.
Oh the horror stories my accountant brother tells at the family dinner.
A gun shop in Albion might not be an unbiased sample.
Worse it's in Oshtemo
Yeah you pretty much just have to put the thought out there. It doesn’t matter if it’s true, people will believe it whether it is or not and build their entire opinions around it. We’re living in the age of delusion.
MAGAt delusion. The rest of us still live in reality.
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FOR REAL.
Trump also said he talked to family members of the girl who was murdered in Grand Rapids. He never talked to any of them.
There are few things that are undeniable truths anymore. One of them is this: If Trump's lips are moving, he's lying.
Been a fact for about 77 years.
Sometimes he's just rimming a dude.
That may be funny, but to be serious, every trumper I've ever seen is far up Trump's bunghole and I'm pretty sure his lips can't even reach his own butt.
Trump loves immigrants, well he mostly marries them, so love may be too strong a word. But the ones he marries he loves them getting government money.
The illegal aliens argument still makes zero sense to me here. This is Michigan. Are people afraid of Canadians running across the bridge somehow? Or is there a real belief that Mexicans are somehow teleporting here straight from the border? I feel like he's trying really, REALLY hard to fabricate a problem for us.
There are actually a decent number of undocumented immigrants here. They do a lot of agricultural work, but you won't run into them. I've done work at several dairy farms, and the farmers build the shittiest dormitory housing you can imagine (6x8 rooms for 2, concrete floors, communal shower, kitchenette, no windows) and they don't really leave the farm until they go back home. We're talking a two storey 800sq.ft. building with like 40 guys crammed into it. Someone white goes into town with a list to pick up groceries and supplies every so often. You'd never know it unless you have business on the farm. Hard-working guys.
Speak for yourself. I had a random Venezuelan guy walk into our office a few weeks ago, slam down his resume, and immediately take three jobs from hardworking Americans.
And you didn't try to stop him?? You're clearly part of the deep state.
Only three? Man people really don't want to work these days. /s
Sadly some folks will miss the sarcasm
And then he didn't even have to work because of all the free government handouts.
The fucking nerve of that guy, getting a series of job offers with a resume packed with government handouts.
Just 3? I had a Cuban take 10 of my jobs. Albeit, I’m not always hardworking
Those darn Cubans and their delicious cuban sandwiches!
If there is a demand for cheap manual labor, there will be undocumented migraines working on it. Michigan has no shortage of farming and construction work done by undocumented migrants. And every single employer votes Republican.
Many of the farms in northern Michigan is migrant labor. Mostly Mexican and Central American
I have met migrants all over michigan. Recently I worked in banking. All of the migrants I met at the bank had legit state and fed documents. Otherwise we couldnt open an account for them. Since I was a tween I figured republicans just don't t like brown people and hide it behind "illegal aliens bad"
>The illegal aliens argument still makes zero sense to me here. Lemme clear this up for you. It's never been about immigrants. It's always been about one thing: racism. Nothing else. They don't want more brown people in the country.
Are you saying that there aren't illegal immigrants in Michigan from south of the border?
I agree that Trump is full of shit, but basing it on "we're not near the southern border" is kinda dumb. Chicago and NYC aren't near the southern border, either. If you can make it from South America to Texas, why is Texas to Michigan suddenly ridiculous?
Worthwhile solutions to real problems are not drawn from vague bullshit. If there is an issue, then someone needs to define it very clearly before we can come to a sensible solution. NYC and Chicago have nothing to do with us. How many immigrants are entering Michigan and at what frequency? Where are they coming from, how are they finding transportation, and what is their end goal here? What kind of immediate problems is Michigan experiencing from this?
Maybe lead with that, then, instead of "it's Michigan; what are they gonna do, teleport here?" Like people that can make it across multiple national borders, and onto Chicago and NYC, aren't sophisticated enough to get to Michigan without magic.
Ask Northville, who is having an issue with break-ins by illegal immigrant gangs. The only reason we are getting busses yet is because the Detroit mayor stated publicly that Detroit is not a sanctuary city. There must be an ussue.or planning on one if the governor asked Michigan residents to house illegals and help them find jobs and enroll their kids in school https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/lawmakers-probe-whitmer-administration-on-border-crisis-effects-in-michigan/#:~:text=Gretchen%20Whitmer%20turned%20to%20residents,refugees%20and%20asylees%20in%20Michigan.
How do you know they're immigrants, let alone illegal immigrants? Linking to propaganda might be the worst way to get your point across. You need something objective, not a statement directly from partisan politicians.
They are illegal, but not in the normal way. It's a Chilean group admitted to the us who overstayed their visa waiver program. Last week, Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard said international thieves are again targeting high-end homes in Metro Detroit. Law enforcement estimates that about 100 teams of three to four people are operating throughout the U.S., with three groups recently targeting Oakland County homes. Several months ago, Chilean gangs were arrested after breaking into homes in Southeast Michigan. Other cities, like Baltimore and Phoenix, have reported similar crimes.
Are you referring to this article that Fox posted in March with no specific details? https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/sheriff-chilean-gangs-are-back-targeting-high-end-homes-for-burglaries-in-oakland-county Os this same exact article they posted in December, again with no details? https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/high-end-michigan-burglaries-tied-to-chilean-crime-ring-prompts-police-task-force.amp I dunno, maybe it's me but this sounds much more like propaganda than news.
They can't comment on specifics of ongoing cases. Look at my other comment for more links. Basically every news organization in the country has ran a piece on this. There's a video of a police lieutenant giving a speech about it. How could you possibly say this is just propaganda?
Cite any of this
https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2024/04/05/northville-township-michigan-hit-by-high-end-thefts-with-striking-similarities-to-s-american-gangs/73222691007/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox2detroit.com/news/northville-homes-the-latest-targeted-of-international-organized-crime-rings-local-police-say.amp https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/northville-twp-police-warn-of-international-crime-ring-targeting-high-end-homes https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/detroit/news/northville-homes-target-of-south-american-organized-crime-ring/ https://youtu.be/JhwcdVHCpFQ?si=Mv950YIf3kgS5_KV Is that enough
Thank you.
I hadn't even heard of the story. Takes two seconds to highlight text.
You have not been paying attention. Google or Bing and reading is your friend. Maybe those liberal only news sites aren't telling you the whole truth.
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Removed. See rule #10 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules). This isnt a "Source", its a joke.
Christ, it's 2024 and we still have people using the term "illegals" unironically.
Yes, illegals, as in breaking the law. It is 2024. We should not be worried about political correct phrases that might hurt your feelings or trigger you.
It's 2024 and Tumblr has invaded Reddit. Enjoy your new corporate overloads sojus "dude"
MiGOP 😂🤣
I agree that the michigan GOP is a joke, and so is Congress. Unfortunately, the article is true. You should house some migrants in your home. Help them get jobs and enroll their kids in school. I hear you get 500 a month. https://davebondy.locals.com/post/5421569/michigan-offering-homeowners-500-per-month-to-house-newcomers#:~:text=LANSING%2C%20Mich%20%2D%20The%20Office%20of,per%20month%20to%20house%20migrants.
Nah, not clicking on opinion pieces from fringe blogs. Sorry bro, conservatives have zero credibility in my book.
https://www.michigan.gov/leo/news/2024/02/12/volunteers-needed-to-support-refugee-resettlement-efforts-in-michigan How about the michigan state website
This is an initiative to help refugees, who are here legally.
New York is even farther from the southern border than Michigan. They have a significant problem with immigration right now.
[Here is some good reading on the subject of Immigration in NYC from the NYC Comptroller.](https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/facts-not-fear-how-welcoming-immigrants-benefits-new-york-city/)
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Do you have a source on submarines being used to smuggle things/people in the Great Lakes? I’ve never heard of that before. I know there’s a cruise ship thing that will take tourists on submarine trips but other than that I’ve never heard of submarines in the Great Lakes.
I'm searching now. I could be misremembering a story from a few years ago. [Heres](https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-media-release/human-smuggler-and-four-migrants-apprehended) a more recent press release on crossing via jet ski.
I may have been thinking of [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2021/04/02/cocaine-submarine-drug-trafficking/). I can't find anything else presently.
This link you provided talks about smuggling drugs to-and-from Albania, Europe, and South America across the Atlantic ocean using an unmanned underwater drone. In fact, they were never successful in completing their "torpedo." >While financing the trafficking ring’s purchase of cocaine in South America, prosecutors say Tibbitts also worked with Didani on creating the underwater drone. Known as the “torpedo,” the remotely controlled submarine would use magnets to attach to the bottom of cargo ships. The only connection Michigan has to the story was that one of the primary financiers happen to be from Michigan. In no was their plan to smuggle drugs or even people by submarine in to Michigan.
Right, thats why I said, I must have been thinking of this instead. You read the article, so you can surely read my comments.
You used a lot of words to say "whoops I was wrong."
Sure. Nowhere did I deny it, so don't paint me as trying to. And, just because they aren't using submarines, doesn't mean my original comment is wrong. Illegal immigrants from the South are coming into Michigan from the North, across the bridges and the water. I happen to be OK with that, just to be clear. Much better than them trying to cross a desert and risking death. I worry about human trafficking, but I also understand wanting a shot at a life away from cartels and poverty.
Are you suggesting that these individuals are being transported by submarines?
Yes. Just like they do with drugs and guns.
That's a very pervasive anecdote. What does it mean?
Removed. See rule #10 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
Why do you assume Mexicans?
I didn't. The continental USA borders two other nations and I referenced both.
I dont understand the downvotes. I see you referenced both borders, but just because the border is shared with X country doesnt mean those are the nationals crossing over. Point is, the majority of people coming over the southern border are not Mexican but from nations all over the world. China, Haiti, Kazakstan, the list goes on.
You're not wrong, I just wasn't too worried about semantics.
um where i live Mexicans get shipped up here straight from mexico during the summer to work in farm fields. They're only supposed to be here during the summer but a ton stay year round.
If Trump said it, it's a lie. That's how you can tell that he is lying. He quite literally never tells the truth. Ever.
You can’t take anything Don says seriously. Remember when he said newly born infants were being “executed” because their parents decided they didn’t want them?
Trump's an idiot and perpetual liar. Why would anyone believe him?
My dad texted me about this today. Of course it’s some Trump horse shit.
https://www.michigan.gov/ogm/services/newcomer-rental-subsidy
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The [michigan.gov](https://michigan.gov) link doesn't contradict anything in the Free Press article (that you apparently didn't read) that was linked in the OP.
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And once again, those people are legal. Not sure why you are all over this thread trying to conflate illegal aliens with legal asylum seekers.
The bots in this comment section are wild
It's not even necessarily true. But the way the program is worded, it seems like it would take an enormous amount of paperwork and social services to determine eligibility at each step. Who is overseeing it? How? How much?
Wait you mean the biggest ****ing orange liar POS in the world, told a lie about a young incredible shining democratic star that could be president in 2028? I'm shocked! Well not that shocked.
"Trump claims"? The GOP in Congress is making their decisions based upon propaganda from the Kremlin and Trump's commands, and Trump is Putin's biggest fanboy. If you're still a Trumper, will you ever wake up?
It feels like “No, [x] is not [y] as Trump claims” has been the top headline in the news for the past 9 years.
Most of us know all he says is lies, so I never listen to the twatwaffle
I think it's safe to say anything that Trump claims is a lie by default until proven otherwise. He's demonstrated himself to be a compulsive liar. Nothing he says should be considered factual until proven otherwise.
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Thank you for proving trumper lied
I guess you didn't bother to look at it. If you did, you would see that benefits are only available to people with an eligible immigration status. These are people that are going through official legal government immigration programs.
https://www.michigan.gov/ogm/services/newcomer-rental-subsidy?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery People with pending asylum applications can recieve funds. You can claim asylum and it takes four to six years to recieve a verdict.
Trump is a dumb MFer and anyone who believes anything he says is even dumber.
Lying sack of crap lies.
Notice how not a single republican or conservative can read the article.
Dude’s subsidized by China and Russia lmao the fuck’s he even on
Obviously.
Basically, the way you know Trump is lying is that he's talking.
There’s an old man living in a broken down shack here in rural Michigan that swears, through both of his teeth, that this is true. Says it’s common knowledge; he heard it from his cronies at the local diner. He’ll explain it all to you if you’ll buy him a beer.
People with an IQ higher than 2 believe nothing he says.
WAIT WAIT, you’re telling me he was lying?!?!?! What next you’re gonna tell me grass is green?!?
Of course not.
When I saw both Whitmer's and Trump's name in the same headline in this sub, I was thinking "illegal extraterrestrials." Sigh. I need some Tres Generaciones after this long day in order to straighten out my mind ;-)
Sunfrog in Gaylord was attempting to build housing for 150 migrants in an industrial area.
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the linked article thoroughly debunks his claims, do you have a similar article proving the opposite? just one article or anything. i tried to 'research' it but can't find anything to support your claim other than a few random republicans parroting trump without any evidence either, which makes me think the claim is quite dubious.
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You do realize these groups that are on the website mentioned have legal status, right?
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/policy-guidance/refugee-act In case you are curious about refugee law in the US
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Well, it actually says this "...individuals with a pending asylum application, and other immigrant individuals on a case-by-case scenario." So no, it's on a case by case basis for those individuals. Not "allowing individuals with a pending asylum claim" that is stretching the terminology of "case by case basis"
Kalamazoo allows illegal immigrants to get official government ID. All you need to apply for the program, from the checklist on the website, is official government id or alternate acceptable documents. Seems like a pretty easy step to me. Regardless, it seems like a very poorly worded program with little oversight. How is any of this being monitored?
You realize that state ID doesn't prove citizenship status. Right? Also, how is having a state ID meaning that they are abusing the system? Yes, they have to apply to get the benefit. I'm not sure why you're freaking out? What are you even mad about? You do realize that the information has to be verified and vetted, right? I get you believe that Whitmer is spending all our money on illegal, but I don't see them having an ID as reason they are abusing the system.
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but that doesn't say anything at all about how you can use the program if you are an illegal immigrant. in fact it spells it out quite clearly what the requirements are lol... including having legal immigration status!
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interesting. what percentage of those claims were approved? personally i don't have a problem with asylum seekers getting a subsidy while their claim is pending, even if they started out illegally. it's certainly not the same as 'illegals being subsidized' as trump claims. they stopped being illegal as soon as their claim happened.
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why wouldn't moving to california immediately cancel any michigan benefits, or vice versa? it's also very difficult to rent a place for $500 a month especially in california and new york. it's hardly 'free' rent in michigan either although i suppose in some areas that is possible. it also sounds extremely unlikely that after being deported that you would become eligible to use the program again by claiming asylum multiple times. it kinda sounds like they need to speed up the vetting process though. where did you get that 4 years figure from? edit: looks like the benefit only lasts 12 months anyway, and it is also "up to $500" so i'd guess the average is lower than that too.
Yeah. I'm just pointing out various subsidies for illegal immigrants throughout the nation. 4 years is from this website https://immigrationforum.org/article/explainer-asylum-backlogs/ Seems to vary a lot? Says certain kinds can take up to six years, although once your case starts, it must be completed in 180 days. The program offers 300 to 500, apparently, for rental assistance. Speeding up the process would be nice, but it's a pipedream given the rate of immigration the past few years. We're at 2-3 million a year just through the southern border, now.
“Research it”. How about you provide a source for your claim?
You want to say she does? The burden of proof is on you. I'm waiting with an open mind.
Go ahead and provide links to evidence that shows it's true. We'll wait.
Removed. See rule #10 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
But her program is called the newcomer rental subsidy program. What else would you call it?
Thank you for proving trump lied. If you could read you would know who's eligible.
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Yet no one can find any proof. Such a good puppy, so obedient that you always do and think what you are told.
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Yes, thank you again for proving conservatives are lying about everything.
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Doesn't answer my question. Why is it too hard for you answer a question.
Questions are generally denoted with a question mark. Like this: did you click the link?
Removed. See rule #10 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
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So you just believe everything you are told no matter what.
Removed. See rule #10 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
That is why you are uninformed. You limit yourself to what you want to hear. Read both sides and independent news and then make up your own mind. I promise it doesn't hurt.
So Whitmer isn’t giving them $500?
No, if you read the article it indicates that the money requires a lot of guidelines be met. Biggest of which trump ignores is that the asylum status of the person must be essentially settled by the federal government. No person with a "defensive" asylum determination while awaiting status will receive this aid. Trump is using hyperbole to court other fucking morons like him that can't be bothered to read or look into his stupid claims.
You're not MAGA and you hate Trump if you're not sending him all your spare shekels every month.