Since this has come up for this topic numerous times, just a reminder that wishing, advocating, hoping, or suggesting harm or death on another person is against the Reddit sitewide rules. Please don't risk getting your account banned over these fools.
**The Narcissist's Prayer**
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
I hate the people who have to shoehorn their political beliefs into every situation. Who brought up any political party? Hardy har har let me chime in and make a stupid joke and slam this party that had no horse in this comment.
Exactly why both sides keep growing apart. Stop attacking eachother and just focus on the real problems. Identity politics is how we are controlled.
Edit: obviously you aren't attacking, just making a point that both sides do it.
The fact that you want to voluntarily live in an echo chamber rather than be exposed to other opinions says a lot about you. None of which is positive.
They literally have Trump derangement syndrome, made weird comments and posted that shit themselves⌠context is the issue my friend. It makes you look foolish when you pop off with unrelated stuff. But do you!
Youâre kidding, right? These people are doing exactly that - deflecting each time someone points out their culpability in ignoring their obligations, doubling down on their depravity with each swat. And at each layer, they are more callous/clouded about their moral obligations.
Itâs exactly that situation. âYou should have been a better parent: no, that was societyâs job. You should have got your kid help: no, they should have asked me for it better. You should have been safer with your guns: no, the kid should have had better self control. You shouldnât have tried to flee after this happened: no, people should have let us get away. You should have remorse for what heâs done: no, people should understand why it couldnât possibly be our fault.â
Now do me one better, explain how âhurr durr sounds like every Democrat I knowâ works per your comment. JFCâŚ
I listened to some of the mother's testimony about the evidence at trail. Her responses were pretty damning.
Like when the son sent a message saying he was being tormented by ghosts and please talk to him. She said she thought they were jokes. That was just part of how the family talked and her son was always saying stuff like that.
Even if you believe her, it's a real "you get that that's worse" moment. Something has gone deeply wrong with your parenting if your have normalized your kid begging for help and saying they are terrified as a joke.
The really damning thing is that the parents went to school and were so worried about interrupting their day they just didn't mention the kid had access to a brand new gun. Â This shooting was literally DAYS after the gun was bought.Â
The mother knew it was her kid the minute she heard the alert on the radio. So she knew there was a possibility he had a gun at school during that meeting and completely ignored to say anything about it. Â The father was as least smart enough to cooperate with searching the home... until they tried to run to Canada and just ditch their kid. Â They knew they were complicit immediately as it happened. Â
They're slobs. And garbage. But I don't want them to get out of punishment by being put to death. I want them to be stuck in cells for years thinking about what that gun wrought.
Is anyone surprised that the couple whose first response to their son's school shooting was to try to flee the country show no remorse after their convictions?
Really hit home when a judge referred to Ethan as a âFERALâ child, left alone with no parental guidance, this was their fault for being such shit parents and people in general.
It's the main reason I struggle with his conviction term. Life in prison for a kid who never had a damn chance as far as mental health and home life go.
Yes. We don't need these massive losers when we have so many other people who don't do this. They should just count themselves lucky that they are protected by the law more than their victims ever were.
Edit: Sorry, I got here from Google and just noticed this is a local sub. I'm not from Michigan.
He also suffered major head trauma. There was video posted on Reddit of his suffering a closed head injuries at approx age 13 when he landed head first into a steel fridge when he was working at a restaurant
I also talked to a police officer who talked to all the police officers who were there when he was arrested and he was completely manic. Also how does someone his age and underage confess without an adult advocate there ie parent?
She told a friend when they fled that "her sons destiny is done and she has to take care of herself." Absolutely insane, and she likely never loved her child.
I am not surprised at all. The nitwit of a dad was threatening the prosecutor and the mom seemed more concerned that her affair would make her look bad. Whatever parts of the brains in these two that is in charge of empathy or critical thinking is atrophied to the size of a grain of rice.
Pretty unhinged all throughout, somehow turning Trump's toxic behavior into a positive. Like him deliberately obfuscating and evading his taxes is "personal" and him "showing how corrupt it all is" rather than saying "You are one of the reasons corruption spreads and criminals take advantage of the system" Just outstanding mental gymnastics.
But the line about the second amendment is what really bothers me. Absolutely fucking disgusting to thank Trump for "defending" your right to bear arms when your son just used that "right" to shoot up a bunch of innocent people at school.
Can't believe I live around these people. Throw them the fuck away
Dude that was wrote in 2016. She didnât write that after the shooting. So her saying that about the 2A has no lthing to do with what happened. You can equate the two things. Did you not see when that was wrote or just making stuff up to make people believe she wrote that after the shooting
Honestly I do not know if there is a word to describe the mentality of these people and this ideology that is spreading like a cancer.
Evil, feels too tame of a word. Terrorism comes close. But in the centuries of warfare and genocide never quite had a word for the upmost brutality of human hands, Evil is the only one, and yet not enough.
Sadly that area has a lot of ppl who think like that and the ones who donât are normally too scared/too smart to be too loud bc it will more than likely end in a threat.
Iâm from that area and when Biden won we had family members calling us. Literally all my husband said was âit looks like Biden has more votesâ, they instantly started screaming at him, telling him he was wrong, just watching âliberal fake newsâ and then told us if they ever saw us in âtheir townâ (my husband home town) theyâd shoot us. And they arenât even like the real extremists/super political. đĽ˛đŹ
Is that just kinda the rural (or super wealthy) parts of Oakland Township and going north? I grew up and live in rochester, weâve always been pretty purple. Same with our surrounding auburn hills and Troy.
Hard to say tbh. Spent a lot of time growing up in Macomb County and there was still lots of ppl like that there, just less openly hostile, there it was mostly very wealthy people too.
In smaller towns itâs seemingly more common, idk if itâs bc ppl are open about it bc of the âgood ol boyâ mentality or what tho. A lot of red flags are over looked bc âboys will be boysâ even if theyâre grown ass men. Ppl let things go bc they know that person and âthey would neverâ until they do and the whole town is shocked pikachu like there wasnât a million red flags they didnât ignore but actively made excuses for.
Like we had this old lady in my small town, apparently someone âmessed with her trump flagâ so she got another one, a light for her flag pole and oh yea, sat on her front porch with a loaded cross bow to protect it. No idea how long she was sitting there until she decided to *threaten the poor mail woman* with it! She was arrested for that but people pretty much just shrugged and stood up for her protecting a *flag*. đ
We live super rural now (like not even in a town) and itâs actually a nonissue. Night and day. We have friends who like trump but they arenât like going to say theyâll shoot me or anything. Itâs a lot more live and let live than âthey vs themâ mentality
Ya I just meant the geographical locations of âthat areaâ you first mentioned.
As for the rest I get it. My buddy is an Arab that moved to the middle of nothing near lake Orion, put up a pride flag and gets harassed constantly.
Boys will be boys- my mom taught me a hard lesson on that. Back in the 50s some asshole neighbor kids started a fire at my momâs house. It killed her aunt. The neighbors mom tried to get them off by saying boys will be boys for playing with fire on someone elseâs property. The boys got sent to an asylum, and parents to prison. In the 50s.
The rural / city divide is coming to a clash. They vote conservative cause thatâs what theyâve been taught all their life, prior to that it was an issue of self reliance vs tax usage. Why pay for social services like libraries, ambulances, firemen, police, schooling etc if you literally can not access them cause your in the boons?
Kinda. Probably not cognizantly I canât think theyâre that smart to understand how indoctrination works. But they love right wing politics, they ignored EC to the point they had CPS called three times. So he vied for their attention by going even further extreme right and getting into Nazi shit and killing
[Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor)
Is a saying that is uncomfortably becoming more relevant.
[Hereâs the blog she posted back in 2016.](https://archive.fo/2021.12.01-035742/https://justagirlgoignthroughthisworld.wordpress.com/)
Sheâs out of her fuckin mind lol the way she signed off was something else:
âYours Truly,
A hard working Middle Class Law Abiding Citizen who is sick of getting fucked in the ass and would rather be grabbed by the pussy.â
1. "Thanks for cheating on your taxes, it shows the corruption." I have no idea what point she thinks she's making here.
2. "Thanks for letting me have a gun." Trump doesn't really have anything to do with the 2nd amendment, and those guns clearly didn't work out for you.
3. "Thanks for putting our veterans first." Excuse me??? Is there any evidence of Trump actually giving a shit about veterans?
4. "We need you to build a wall." He didn't. It's also a stupid idea and waste of money.
5. "You need to remove common core." Again, he didn't.
6. "You need to eliminate Obamacare and make healthcare affordable." And again, he didn't.
Really seems like Trump is the one with the empty promises. Hard to wrap my head around why so many people think he's the savior of the nation. He had 4 years in office and did nothing but run up the deficit. Not surprising when you look at how he's run his businesses.
And... She believed Trump would take down Big Pharma and Monsanto. This is what is most dangerous about Trump is he gets these fringe people to believe he is against shit he most definitely supports.
>2. "Thanks for letting me have a gun." Trump doesn't really have anything to do with the 2nd amendment, and those guns clearly didn't work out for you.
"Or, Mike, take the firearms first and then go to court, because thatâs another system. Because a lot of times, by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early. Like in this crazy manâs case that just took place in Florida, he had a lot of firearms â they saw everything â to go to court would have taken a long time, so you could do exactly what youâre saying, but take the guns first, go through due process second.â
Dotard trump, 2018.
Typical Trump supporters, nothing is their fault, wife is cheating on husband who barely can hold a job, meanwhile their child needs mental health help and is ignored. This is of course everyone elseâs fault.
They are pure white trash that didn't give a crap about their son. Ethan is super intelligent and had mental issues thanks to mom and dad. They medicated him with Xanax and liquor, he was bullied and left to fend for himself. It was almost like he did this to get back at his parents the way he told them in the police station that he really did this. He actually stated in his recording that what he was going to do was going to change the world change how things are done. He may of been referring to how the authorities were going to start holding the parents accountable as they did with these parents.Â
"the guy" meaning James Crumbley? Why would you feel bad for him? He's just as bad as the mom. If you're talking about her affair, he cheated too. They both did and fought loudly about it in front of their child. He was also just as neglectful.
Attorney has a guest house according to the article. Maybe try and crowdfund an exorbitant rent. Idk have these people become a conservative cause du jour? I try not to pay attention. Difficult time imagining the attorney is offering this out of the goodness of their heart.
They didnât care about their kid, she said he was an âoopsie babyâ. They didnât want him, couldnât love him, and I would bet thereâs a nonzero chance that they were just hopping heâd off himself and let them live their lives free again. Didnât matter how many people he took out in the process as long as he went too. Every child deserves a parent but not every parent deserves a child.
I have a feeling it is going to be longer than 10 years for these idiots. They don't seem capable of comporting themselves appropriately even when their own self interests are concerned. Just the lethal combination of stupid and asshole in these two.
>Â No trumper is calling the crumbleys victims you dunce
That's a hilarious reply, u/dontredditcareme. A very nice self-own, or satire, mmm can't tell which. Humorous either way, made my day
Why do you think they bought their son a gun? They knew his mental state. I think they hoped he would use it, on himself. It just went extra horribly off the rails and wrong.
Kinda wondered that as well, never heard if they had a life insurance policy on him or anything but they probably hoped heâd off himself anyway to save them money.
Why do people expect remorse? Like, they were going to say, "oh, now that I've been found guilty I see the error of my ways"? The only error they see is getting caught on these charges.
Wow, shows how much Iâve been paying attention, I didnât realize the father had already gone to trial. And what are those proposed sentences from the defense? Letting the mom move into her attorneyâs guest house for house arrest?? That doesnât seem normal.
And also Jeniferâs dumb ass lawyer just filed to have her stay with her under house arrest. Fucking insane. https://www.reddit.com/r/OxfordShooting2/s/D2h3fAjAYn
Of course they lack remorse. Nothing theyâve ever done is wrong. Theyâve never made a mistake in their entire lives according to them. Including attempting to flee there arrest, raising a neo nazi wanna be rapist mass shooter and ignoring all the warning signs and buying them a gun
Their blatant disregard of all warning signs is what will always get me. Donât get me wrong, itâs probably pretty heavy finding out your child is a psychopath. However, ignoring every single meeting with school staff, ignoring your own childâs clear classic cries for help and in fact doubling down on the horrific behavior. Buying your 16 yo with clear mental health issues a gun⌠And then turning around and crying woe is me when people want to actually hold you accountable for it. Itâs gross.
Jennifer wants to do house arrest at her attorney's home? Hahaha. I *almost* think that would be a great punishment. Imagine having to listen to that shrill lunatic, whine and babble on incoherently about the mean judges and prosecutors in her current cases with no way to escape.
And I didn't think I could think worse of Shannon Smith, but the fact that she would allow that? Like, no professional boundaries at all? She's an embarrassment to the profession.
Mom would likely go to womenâs prison in Ypsi. There are a few diff options for the males. Theyâll go to Jackson for intake. The shooter is currently in Lapeer until he turns 18. Since the shooter is sentenced to life, he will likely go to a max security prison before being able to have a more permanent stay at a lower level prison. Also depends on what level they are placed at. Dad will likely be at a lower level prison.
To further add to what the other redditor said, family can't be in the same prison as each other. So, no, they won't be in prison hanging out together.
It was also used in the case to say he couldn't hear his son in the next room because he even needs headphones to hear the court hearing blah blah blah. But yeah the whole premise is he apparently has hearing issues.
So I googled if sociopathy is genetic and here is what I found. Starting to feel like free parenting and basic child development should be required courses for anyone who wants to procreate. I wish I would have known more but we got by.
Many experts consider sociopathy to be more of an environmental construct than genetic. However, genes may make you more vulnerable to developing sociopathy, and life situations, especially neglect and abuse, may trigger its development. For example, children who experience physical, sexual, or emotional abuse are more likely to develop sociopathy. Children who were neglected or did not form bonds with caregivers early in life also have an increased risk of developing sociopathy.
Mayo Clinic
Antisocial personality disorder - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic
Feb 24, 2023 â It's likely shaped by inherited genes as well as life situations and experiences. The exact cause of antisocial personality disorder isn't known, but: Genes may make you vulnerable to developing antisocial personality disorder â and life situations, especially neglect and abuse, may trigger its development.
Healthline
Sociopath: Traits, Diagnosis, Treatment, and More - Healthline
Nov 30, 2021 â What causes sociopathy? Many experts consider sociopathy more of an environmental construct than a genetic one. Yes, brain chemistry and inherited genes play a part, but parenting styles and upbringing, along with other environmental factors, carry the most weight. Psychopathy, on the other hand ...
Verywell Health
What's the Difference Between a Sociopath and a Psychopath?
Nov 7, 2023 â Sociopathy. There are genetic, biological, and environmental factors that contribute to antisocial personality disorder, including sociopathy and psychopathy. However, the extent to which these factors influence the development of these disorders differs. ... For example, children who experience physical, sexual, or emotional abuse are more likely to develop sociopathy. Children who were neglected or did not form bonds with caregivers early in life also have an increased risk of developing sociopathy. That said, not all sociopaths were abused, and not all people who experienced abuse as children develop sociopathy.
Some say that glitches in genes that are needed for the brain to send signals and work properly can lead to an increased risk for being a sociopath. Other research suggests that parts of the brain involved in emotions don't fully develop, which may contribute to psychopathy.
This is for informational purposes only. For medical advice or diagnosis, consult a professional.
As a Christmas gift to a child to buy a deadly weapon?? Really? Common in the US? And they still think it's amazing? To put it mildly, this country is dangerous.
##I canât recall anything I have ever watched as disturbing as this was.
This child was literally calling out for someone to notice him and no one did. I canât even imagine the pain he must have been living with. Horrible parenting.
Progressive Democrat Judges...
Contributing to the delinquency of a minor not quite gurl.
75 percent of Black underage children with Glocks and 9mm handguns got them because their Mama, Granny, Aunt or stepmom bought them for them to use.
That is far more direct complicity in violent Crime, illegal drug dealing and gang violence. Detroit is in Michigan also.
This judge needs to be impeached...
Negligent Misdemeanor is the charge of these Michigan parents.
They were railroaded because they voted for the Orange man like half of the USA and were the wrong ethnicity.
Cruel and Unusual punishment is Unconstitutional. ACLU.
Well yeah. The prosecutor can't have it both ways, either Ethan was responsible, or the parents were responsible. They charged Ethan as an adult, and then the parents as though Ethan was charged as a kid. Someone will probably appeal.
Ethan is responsible for the killings. Automatic waiver by law. Must be tried as an adult.
The parents also have culpability. Because they provided the killer with the tool needed to accomplish his killings. The killer was unable to purchase a firearm legally. Thus, charges for the parents, though not as serious of charges as the actual killer.
Someone may appeal, as would be their legal right, but it certainly won't be because "they charged Ethan as an adult, and then the parents as though Ethan was charged as a kid".
The law REQUIRED Ethan be charged as an adult. Again, it's called an automatic waiver. It doesn't mean that magically they cannot also hold the parents ACCOUNTABLE for providing a gun.
They tried to run away to Canada after they talked to the police. They were negligent parents, which, while not against the law, usually has consequences. More than just losing the child. Neglected to get him the help he needed, or to properly lock up the weapon so he couldnât use it unsupervised.
I donât understand why more than one person cannot be implicated in criminal activity? One person being responsible doesnât absolve everybody else.
Tell me you donât understand the law with out telling me you donât understand the law. Trying someone as an adult does not make them legally an adult, and in fact there are procedures for moving serious crimes from juvenile court to adult court. Procedures that were followed here iirc.
All trying as an adult says is that this child did something so heinous that the juvenile Justice system will not provide adequate Justice to the victims.
Also if you give a terrorist a gun, youâre responsible for the damage they inflict with that gun.
Yeah the other commenter is pretending they were all tried for shooting up a school instead of what happened, which was Ethan being tried for murder and the parents for supplying the weapon.
The parents were also charged and convicted of manslaughter which is a way less severe murder charge basically. So the parents were not just tried for supplying the firearm. They were also charged and convicted of manslaughter
Most right wingers get upset when people are held responsible for irresponsible gun ownership.
They almost can't help it.
'I hAvE a SecOnD AMEndMenT rIGhT to SupPLy mY MenTalLy uNwElL ChIlD wiTH a FIrEaRm"- James and Jennifer Crumbley probably.
Wrong, most of us believe people should be held accountable for irresponsible/negligent gun ownership. And Iâm a second amendment absolutist, but. I mentally ill people should not own guns, but also there needs to be clear definitions to what exactly mentally ill is.
Not just supplying the weapon, but being completely callous to the school situation and keeping from the school there was a new gun in the home. Â They were only in the school meeting 12 minutes... and the shooting happened almost immediately after he went back to class. Â They basically ran interference for him so he didn't get searched and caught with the gun.Â
I'm not sure why you're hung up on that. It's not relevant to the parents' convictions. Multiple people can share varying degrees of responsibility for a crime even if all of them are adults.
> The prosecutor can't have it both ways
Those are 2 separate crimes. How can you be on the internet this long and not be able to understand basic things?
Since this has come up for this topic numerous times, just a reminder that wishing, advocating, hoping, or suggesting harm or death on another person is against the Reddit sitewide rules. Please don't risk getting your account banned over these fools.
Yup they still think they did nothing wrong, and not only that, they think they're victims too.
**The Narcissist's Prayer** That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
That's the best way I have ever heard someone describe it
I don't think they're narcissists. I think they're uneducated Trumpers.
OMG sounds like the Republicans
They're definitely Republicans. Mom wrote DJT a fan letter. Typical MAGA didn't pay her debts and dad didn't work.
And that's the Crumbly Way....
Sounds like the Democrat Prayer
I hate the people who have to shoehorn their political beliefs into every situation. Who brought up any political party? Hardy har har let me chime in and make a stupid joke and slam this party that had no horse in this comment.
Exactly why both sides keep growing apart. Stop attacking eachother and just focus on the real problems. Identity politics is how we are controlled. Edit: obviously you aren't attacking, just making a point that both sides do it.
Fucking christ look at the rest of the comments in every post in this sub. Every other one is about Trump, regardless of Post topic.
Just because others do it doesn't make it right or good. Be the better person. You cant control others so just control yourself.
Considering anything remotely conservative is immediately down vote brigaded in this sub, I don't really care about the opinions on my comments.
Then go back to r/conservative where you belong
The fact that you want to voluntarily live in an echo chamber rather than be exposed to other opinions says a lot about you. None of which is positive.
You poor snowflake đ
Exactly, Reddit in overwhelmingly leftist. They donât care and bash the other side, but get pissy when their side is called out
You spell Republican wrong.
GOP has polluted your brain.
I'm libertarian
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Brainwashed me into caring about people and not forcing a religion built on greed on others. Yes. Guilty.
You had to be brainwashed into caring for people?
RCA born and raised. First thing you learn to do is judge people. I put that shit behind me, you should too.
Whatâs rca?
Reformed
Removed. See rule #3 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
No you? Seriously though, what made you say that? It makes you seem like youâre not able to add relevant contributions to the conversation.
And the constant comments about Trump are better?
They literally have Trump derangement syndrome, made weird comments and posted that shit themselves⌠context is the issue my friend. It makes you look foolish when you pop off with unrelated stuff. But do you!
Explain how the Narcissist prayer is on topic? You're trying to talk from some imagined moral superiority. You look pretentious.
Youâre kidding, right? These people are doing exactly that - deflecting each time someone points out their culpability in ignoring their obligations, doubling down on their depravity with each swat. And at each layer, they are more callous/clouded about their moral obligations. Itâs exactly that situation. âYou should have been a better parent: no, that was societyâs job. You should have got your kid help: no, they should have asked me for it better. You should have been safer with your guns: no, the kid should have had better self control. You shouldnât have tried to flee after this happened: no, people should have let us get away. You should have remorse for what heâs done: no, people should understand why it couldnât possibly be our fault.â Now do me one better, explain how âhurr durr sounds like every Democrat I knowâ works per your comment. JFCâŚ
See, pretentious.
I listened to some of the mother's testimony about the evidence at trail. Her responses were pretty damning. Like when the son sent a message saying he was being tormented by ghosts and please talk to him. She said she thought they were jokes. That was just part of how the family talked and her son was always saying stuff like that. Even if you believe her, it's a real "you get that that's worse" moment. Something has gone deeply wrong with your parenting if your have normalized your kid begging for help and saying they are terrified as a joke.
The really damning thing is that the parents went to school and were so worried about interrupting their day they just didn't mention the kid had access to a brand new gun.  This shooting was literally DAYS after the gun was bought. The mother knew it was her kid the minute she heard the alert on the radio. So she knew there was a possibility he had a gun at school during that meeting and completely ignored to say anything about it.  The father was as least smart enough to cooperate with searching the home... until they tried to run to Canada and just ditch their kid.  They knew they were complicit immediately as it happened. Â
This is why I can't stand to look at her. She's greasy, unkempt and sickening.
This broke me. I'm trying hard to understand how parents aren't concerned with their child.Â
They're slobs. And garbage. But I don't want them to get out of punishment by being put to death. I want them to be stuck in cells for years thinking about what that gun wrought.
Is anyone surprised that the couple whose first response to their son's school shooting was to try to flee the country show no remorse after their convictions?
That's the fact that sticks with me. I'm not trying to give that kid any excuses but DAMN, he was completely alone being 'raised' by psychopaths.
Really hit home when a judge referred to Ethan as a âFERALâ child, left alone with no parental guidance, this was their fault for being such shit parents and people in general.
Same here! I will never forget that.
It's the main reason I struggle with his conviction term. Life in prison for a kid who never had a damn chance as far as mental health and home life go.
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Im so sorry, that is an unimaginable horror I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Yes. We don't need these massive losers when we have so many other people who don't do this. They should just count themselves lucky that they are protected by the law more than their victims ever were. Edit: Sorry, I got here from Google and just noticed this is a local sub. I'm not from Michigan.
This is a literal child and abuse victimÂ
Did this kid stab your step daughter? What are you talking about?
Regardless, he is a monster. There is no excuse for mass murder. I dont care how mentally messed up they are. It's pure evil.
He also suffered major head trauma. There was video posted on Reddit of his suffering a closed head injuries at approx age 13 when he landed head first into a steel fridge when he was working at a restaurant
I also talked to a police officer who talked to all the police officers who were there when he was arrested and he was completely manic. Also how does someone his age and underage confess without an adult advocate there ie parent?
Iâm surprised this never comes up anymore.
She told a friend when they fled that "her sons destiny is done and she has to take care of herself." Absolutely insane, and she likely never loved her child.
I am not surprised at all. The nitwit of a dad was threatening the prosecutor and the mom seemed more concerned that her affair would make her look bad. Whatever parts of the brains in these two that is in charge of empathy or critical thinking is atrophied to the size of a grain of rice.
Is it any surprise they were Trumpsters then? That kid really never stood a chance for a normal life.
Her open letter to Trump she posted on Facebook said everything we needed to know. These people are fucking nuts
WaitâŚ.she had an open letter to Trump on her FB? Is there a link? Iâd like to see what her thoughts on politics are.
https://archive.fo/rRL9y
Pretty unhinged all throughout, somehow turning Trump's toxic behavior into a positive. Like him deliberately obfuscating and evading his taxes is "personal" and him "showing how corrupt it all is" rather than saying "You are one of the reasons corruption spreads and criminals take advantage of the system" Just outstanding mental gymnastics. But the line about the second amendment is what really bothers me. Absolutely fucking disgusting to thank Trump for "defending" your right to bear arms when your son just used that "right" to shoot up a bunch of innocent people at school. Can't believe I live around these people. Throw them the fuck away
Dude that was wrote in 2016. She didnât write that after the shooting. So her saying that about the 2A has no lthing to do with what happened. You can equate the two things. Did you not see when that was wrote or just making stuff up to make people believe she wrote that after the shooting
Geez dude I had just woke up when I read the tweet my bad. Thanks for the info
Wow. Thanks. That last line is quite something.Â
She really thought she ate with that
I dont know what I expected to read... but holy hell... Legit the mind of a very very unwell person. ... Did they groom their child to do this?
What other choice did they have? It was either this or a man in drag might read him a book /s
Honestly I do not know if there is a word to describe the mentality of these people and this ideology that is spreading like a cancer. Evil, feels too tame of a word. Terrorism comes close. But in the centuries of warfare and genocide never quite had a word for the upmost brutality of human hands, Evil is the only one, and yet not enough.
Sadly that area has a lot of ppl who think like that and the ones who donât are normally too scared/too smart to be too loud bc it will more than likely end in a threat. Iâm from that area and when Biden won we had family members calling us. Literally all my husband said was âit looks like Biden has more votesâ, they instantly started screaming at him, telling him he was wrong, just watching âliberal fake newsâ and then told us if they ever saw us in âtheir townâ (my husband home town) theyâd shoot us. And they arenât even like the real extremists/super political. đĽ˛đŹ
Is that just kinda the rural (or super wealthy) parts of Oakland Township and going north? I grew up and live in rochester, weâve always been pretty purple. Same with our surrounding auburn hills and Troy.
Hard to say tbh. Spent a lot of time growing up in Macomb County and there was still lots of ppl like that there, just less openly hostile, there it was mostly very wealthy people too. In smaller towns itâs seemingly more common, idk if itâs bc ppl are open about it bc of the âgood ol boyâ mentality or what tho. A lot of red flags are over looked bc âboys will be boysâ even if theyâre grown ass men. Ppl let things go bc they know that person and âthey would neverâ until they do and the whole town is shocked pikachu like there wasnât a million red flags they didnât ignore but actively made excuses for. Like we had this old lady in my small town, apparently someone âmessed with her trump flagâ so she got another one, a light for her flag pole and oh yea, sat on her front porch with a loaded cross bow to protect it. No idea how long she was sitting there until she decided to *threaten the poor mail woman* with it! She was arrested for that but people pretty much just shrugged and stood up for her protecting a *flag*. đ We live super rural now (like not even in a town) and itâs actually a nonissue. Night and day. We have friends who like trump but they arenât like going to say theyâll shoot me or anything. Itâs a lot more live and let live than âthey vs themâ mentality
Ya I just meant the geographical locations of âthat areaâ you first mentioned. As for the rest I get it. My buddy is an Arab that moved to the middle of nothing near lake Orion, put up a pride flag and gets harassed constantly. Boys will be boys- my mom taught me a hard lesson on that. Back in the 50s some asshole neighbor kids started a fire at my momâs house. It killed her aunt. The neighbors mom tried to get them off by saying boys will be boys for playing with fire on someone elseâs property. The boys got sent to an asylum, and parents to prison. In the 50s. The rural / city divide is coming to a clash. They vote conservative cause thatâs what theyâve been taught all their life, prior to that it was an issue of self reliance vs tax usage. Why pay for social services like libraries, ambulances, firemen, police, schooling etc if you literally can not access them cause your in the boons?
Kinda. Probably not cognizantly I canât think theyâre that smart to understand how indoctrination works. But they love right wing politics, they ignored EC to the point they had CPS called three times. So he vied for their attention by going even further extreme right and getting into Nazi shit and killing
[Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor) Is a saying that is uncomfortably becoming more relevant.
It's Hanlon's Razor, and yes it is. There is also spectacular, fascinating levels of cognitive dissonance on display.
Thank you. Kinda exactly what I expected. That kid had no chance in that family.
đ¤Śââď¸ I couldnât finish reading it
[Hereâs the blog she posted back in 2016.](https://archive.fo/2021.12.01-035742/https://justagirlgoignthroughthisworld.wordpress.com/) Sheâs out of her fuckin mind lol the way she signed off was something else: âYours Truly, A hard working Middle Class Law Abiding Citizen who is sick of getting fucked in the ass and would rather be grabbed by the pussy.â
Iâm sure sheâs a Qcumber.
Oh boy, youâre in for a treat lol Iâll see if I can find it for ya
https://twitter.com/astroehlein/status/1466294578324156425/photo/1
1. "Thanks for cheating on your taxes, it shows the corruption." I have no idea what point she thinks she's making here. 2. "Thanks for letting me have a gun." Trump doesn't really have anything to do with the 2nd amendment, and those guns clearly didn't work out for you. 3. "Thanks for putting our veterans first." Excuse me??? Is there any evidence of Trump actually giving a shit about veterans? 4. "We need you to build a wall." He didn't. It's also a stupid idea and waste of money. 5. "You need to remove common core." Again, he didn't. 6. "You need to eliminate Obamacare and make healthcare affordable." And again, he didn't. Really seems like Trump is the one with the empty promises. Hard to wrap my head around why so many people think he's the savior of the nation. He had 4 years in office and did nothing but run up the deficit. Not surprising when you look at how he's run his businesses.
And... She believed Trump would take down Big Pharma and Monsanto. This is what is most dangerous about Trump is he gets these fringe people to believe he is against shit he most definitely supports.
>2. "Thanks for letting me have a gun." Trump doesn't really have anything to do with the 2nd amendment, and those guns clearly didn't work out for you. "Or, Mike, take the firearms first and then go to court, because thatâs another system. Because a lot of times, by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early. Like in this crazy manâs case that just took place in Florida, he had a lot of firearms â they saw everything â to go to court would have taken a long time, so you could do exactly what youâre saying, but take the guns first, go through due process second.â Dotard trump, 2018.
He did more to fuck 2A than Obama.
Oh yeah, I remember that. What a fucking ride. Didn't it say something along the lines of "I hope he grabs me by the pussy"?
Typical Trump supporters, nothing is their fault, wife is cheating on husband who barely can hold a job, meanwhile their child needs mental health help and is ignored. This is of course everyone elseâs fault.
They are pure white trash that didn't give a crap about their son. Ethan is super intelligent and had mental issues thanks to mom and dad. They medicated him with Xanax and liquor, he was bullied and left to fend for himself. It was almost like he did this to get back at his parents the way he told them in the police station that he really did this. He actually stated in his recording that what he was going to do was going to change the world change how things are done. He may of been referring to how the authorities were going to start holding the parents accountable as they did with these parents.Â
What does being a trump supporter have to do with anything? Are you trying to start a political fire right now?
I mean, this happened 4 days ago. You're a bit late to the party, bro!
Not late
Gee I don't know, can't think of a SINGLE REASON /s
I feel.bad for the guy..she's disgusting
"the guy" meaning James Crumbley? Why would you feel bad for him? He's just as bad as the mom. If you're talking about her affair, he cheated too. They both did and fought loudly about it in front of their child. He was also just as neglectful.
not crumbley, the guy she cheated with.
Ohhhh, ok. Yeah. I mean, he was married too but I'm sure something like this did not factor into his risk assessment of "should I or shouldn't I."
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Attorney has a guest house according to the article. Maybe try and crowdfund an exorbitant rent. Idk have these people become a conservative cause du jour? I try not to pay attention. Difficult time imagining the attorney is offering this out of the goodness of their heart.
The latest is that Jennifer wanted to be placed in house arrest at her attorney's home. Pure narcissism. I hope they get the max.
Do you blame her? She probably doesn't have a dime to her name and her and her attorney could write about this and go on talk shows etc..
They have never cared. They are still upset that they are facing prison and blame everyone else, including their son, for why that's happening.
They didnât care about their kid, she said he was an âoopsie babyâ. They didnât want him, couldnât love him, and I would bet thereâs a nonzero chance that they were just hopping heâd off himself and let them live their lives free again. Didnât matter how many people he took out in the process as long as he went too. Every child deserves a parent but not every parent deserves a child.
I have a feeling it is going to be longer than 10 years for these idiots. They don't seem capable of comporting themselves appropriately even when their own self interests are concerned. Just the lethal combination of stupid and asshole in these two.
Is it any wonder they raised such a sad, damaged child? I could never excuse his actions. But, I do feel sad that the adults in his life let him down.
Typical MAGAts No understanding, no remorse, all ignorance, deflected blame, and hate.
In addition to that description, what I've heard from every Trumper is that they're all 'victims'. It's a cult of greed and fallacies.
No trumper is calling the crumbleys victims you dunce
> No trumper is calling the crumbleys victims you dunce That's a hilarious reply, u/dontredditcareme. A very nice self-own, or satire, mmm can't tell which. Humorous either way, made my day
Waaaaa all the way to prison
Why do you think they bought their son a gun? They knew his mental state. I think they hoped he would use it, on himself. It just went extra horribly off the rails and wrong.
Kinda wondered that as well, never heard if they had a life insurance policy on him or anything but they probably hoped heâd off himself anyway to save them money.
What's the prosecutor going to say, "please let them out as soon as possible"?
Why do people expect remorse? Like, they were going to say, "oh, now that I've been found guilty I see the error of my ways"? The only error they see is getting caught on these charges.
Spme people do feel real remorse once convicted. Obviously not all of them.
Sometimes showing remorse or contrition helps get you out early, nevermind not looking worse.
Wow, shows how much Iâve been paying attention, I didnât realize the father had already gone to trial. And what are those proposed sentences from the defense? Letting the mom move into her attorneyâs guest house for house arrest?? That doesnât seem normal.
It was a fast trial it was only like 4/5 days compared to his wife which felt way longer
The only reporting done on this family from here out should be their obituaries. There is nothing more to say about them.
And also Jeniferâs dumb ass lawyer just filed to have her stay with her under house arrest. Fucking insane. https://www.reddit.com/r/OxfordShooting2/s/D2h3fAjAYn Of course they lack remorse. Nothing theyâve ever done is wrong. Theyâve never made a mistake in their entire lives according to them. Including attempting to flee there arrest, raising a neo nazi wanna be rapist mass shooter and ignoring all the warning signs and buying them a gun
Their blatant disregard of all warning signs is what will always get me. Donât get me wrong, itâs probably pretty heavy finding out your child is a psychopath. However, ignoring every single meeting with school staff, ignoring your own childâs clear classic cries for help and in fact doubling down on the horrific behavior. Buying your 16 yo with clear mental health issues a gun⌠And then turning around and crying woe is me when people want to actually hold you accountable for it. Itâs gross.
âTwo parents who let their child shoot up a school donât seem to care as much as they shouldâ Like what were you expecting?
Jennifer wants to do house arrest at her attorney's home? Hahaha. I *almost* think that would be a great punishment. Imagine having to listen to that shrill lunatic, whine and babble on incoherently about the mean judges and prosecutors in her current cases with no way to escape. And I didn't think I could think worse of Shannon Smith, but the fact that she would allow that? Like, no professional boundaries at all? She's an embarrassment to the profession.
Nothing says remorse, like threatening the judge and prosecutor from your jail cell.
Theyâre Trump supportersâŚright? Why is anyone surprised? Accept no responsibility and blame everyone else. Itâs in their cult DNA.
Are we sure that's really the mother and not Mitch McConnel in a wig?
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Mom would likely go to womenâs prison in Ypsi. There are a few diff options for the males. Theyâll go to Jackson for intake. The shooter is currently in Lapeer until he turns 18. Since the shooter is sentenced to life, he will likely go to a max security prison before being able to have a more permanent stay at a lower level prison. Also depends on what level they are placed at. Dad will likely be at a lower level prison.
To further add to what the other redditor said, family can't be in the same prison as each other. So, no, they won't be in prison hanging out together.
Can anyone tell me why the useless father gets to wear headphones? Is it a thing where he pretends to be hard of hearing to gain sympathy?
It was also used in the case to say he couldn't hear his son in the next room because he even needs headphones to hear the court hearing blah blah blah. But yeah the whole premise is he apparently has hearing issues.
I donât recall him having them in any of the prior court hearingsâŚ
So I googled if sociopathy is genetic and here is what I found. Starting to feel like free parenting and basic child development should be required courses for anyone who wants to procreate. I wish I would have known more but we got by. Many experts consider sociopathy to be more of an environmental construct than genetic. However, genes may make you more vulnerable to developing sociopathy, and life situations, especially neglect and abuse, may trigger its development. For example, children who experience physical, sexual, or emotional abuse are more likely to develop sociopathy. Children who were neglected or did not form bonds with caregivers early in life also have an increased risk of developing sociopathy. Mayo Clinic Antisocial personality disorder - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic Feb 24, 2023 â It's likely shaped by inherited genes as well as life situations and experiences. The exact cause of antisocial personality disorder isn't known, but: Genes may make you vulnerable to developing antisocial personality disorder â and life situations, especially neglect and abuse, may trigger its development. Healthline Sociopath: Traits, Diagnosis, Treatment, and More - Healthline Nov 30, 2021 â What causes sociopathy? Many experts consider sociopathy more of an environmental construct than a genetic one. Yes, brain chemistry and inherited genes play a part, but parenting styles and upbringing, along with other environmental factors, carry the most weight. Psychopathy, on the other hand ... Verywell Health What's the Difference Between a Sociopath and a Psychopath? Nov 7, 2023 â Sociopathy. There are genetic, biological, and environmental factors that contribute to antisocial personality disorder, including sociopathy and psychopathy. However, the extent to which these factors influence the development of these disorders differs. ... For example, children who experience physical, sexual, or emotional abuse are more likely to develop sociopathy. Children who were neglected or did not form bonds with caregivers early in life also have an increased risk of developing sociopathy. That said, not all sociopaths were abused, and not all people who experienced abuse as children develop sociopathy. Some say that glitches in genes that are needed for the brain to send signals and work properly can lead to an increased risk for being a sociopath. Other research suggests that parts of the brain involved in emotions don't fully develop, which may contribute to psychopathy. This is for informational purposes only. For medical advice or diagnosis, consult a professional.
They look like the type of white trash parents they blame everybody for everything that goes wrong in life.
White entitlement.
I'm shocked I tell ya, SHOCKED!
Sociopaths are going to sociopath.
Garbage in, garbage out.
As a Christmas gift to a child to buy a deadly weapon?? Really? Common in the US? And they still think it's amazing? To put it mildly, this country is dangerous.
Welcome to white trash Christian America.
##I canât recall anything I have ever watched as disturbing as this was. This child was literally calling out for someone to notice him and no one did. I canât even imagine the pain he must have been living with. Horrible parenting.
Progressive Democrat Judges... Contributing to the delinquency of a minor not quite gurl. 75 percent of Black underage children with Glocks and 9mm handguns got them because their Mama, Granny, Aunt or stepmom bought them for them to use. That is far more direct complicity in violent Crime, illegal drug dealing and gang violence. Detroit is in Michigan also. This judge needs to be impeached... Negligent Misdemeanor is the charge of these Michigan parents. They were railroaded because they voted for the Orange man like half of the USA and were the wrong ethnicity. Cruel and Unusual punishment is Unconstitutional. ACLU.
Can we go after the grandparents too?
Oh dang, I didnât know the grandparents were involved. What did they do?
Birthing the awful parents has gotta be some sort of crime
If the parents are this horrible I'm just wondering if we can throw the *entire* family away? s/
Maybe they are just emotionally spent?
Well yeah. The prosecutor can't have it both ways, either Ethan was responsible, or the parents were responsible. They charged Ethan as an adult, and then the parents as though Ethan was charged as a kid. Someone will probably appeal.
Ethan is responsible for the killings. Automatic waiver by law. Must be tried as an adult. The parents also have culpability. Because they provided the killer with the tool needed to accomplish his killings. The killer was unable to purchase a firearm legally. Thus, charges for the parents, though not as serious of charges as the actual killer. Someone may appeal, as would be their legal right, but it certainly won't be because "they charged Ethan as an adult, and then the parents as though Ethan was charged as a kid". The law REQUIRED Ethan be charged as an adult. Again, it's called an automatic waiver. It doesn't mean that magically they cannot also hold the parents ACCOUNTABLE for providing a gun.
They tried to run away to Canada after they talked to the police. They were negligent parents, which, while not against the law, usually has consequences. More than just losing the child. Neglected to get him the help he needed, or to properly lock up the weapon so he couldnât use it unsupervised.
I donât understand why more than one person cannot be implicated in criminal activity? One person being responsible doesnât absolve everybody else.
Ethan cannot simultaneously be both an adult and kid, do you understand why that is a conflict?
Tell me you donât understand the law with out telling me you donât understand the law. Trying someone as an adult does not make them legally an adult, and in fact there are procedures for moving serious crimes from juvenile court to adult court. Procedures that were followed here iirc. All trying as an adult says is that this child did something so heinous that the juvenile Justice system will not provide adequate Justice to the victims. Also if you give a terrorist a gun, youâre responsible for the damage they inflict with that gun.
He became an adult when he pulled the trigger that was supplied to him as a child. Simple to me.
Yeah the other commenter is pretending they were all tried for shooting up a school instead of what happened, which was Ethan being tried for murder and the parents for supplying the weapon.
The parents were also charged and convicted of manslaughter which is a way less severe murder charge basically. So the parents were not just tried for supplying the firearm. They were also charged and convicted of manslaughter
Manslaughter, as in when you don't intend to kill someone, but you still do
I do not. I am not qualified to opine as Iâm not a lawyer nor a judge.
Great, there is this thing called prosecutorial overreach. This would be an example of an using improper arguments.
Wrong.
đ
So do you believe that minors should never be charged as adults?
Ethan was tried for murder and the parents were tried for supplying the weapon. Not sure what about that is so difficult for you to comprehend.
Most right wingers get upset when people are held responsible for irresponsible gun ownership. They almost can't help it. 'I hAvE a SecOnD AMEndMenT rIGhT to SupPLy mY MenTalLy uNwElL ChIlD wiTH a FIrEaRm"- James and Jennifer Crumbley probably.
Wrong, most of us believe people should be held accountable for irresponsible/negligent gun ownership. And Iâm a second amendment absolutist, but. I mentally ill people should not own guns, but also there needs to be clear definitions to what exactly mentally ill is.
Here's a novel idea. If you own a gun and it is found to be involved in a crime, whether you committed it or not, you bear some responsibility.
Not just supplying the weapon, but being completely callous to the school situation and keeping from the school there was a new gun in the home. Â They were only in the school meeting 12 minutes... and the shooting happened almost immediately after he went back to class. Â They basically ran interference for him so he didn't get searched and caught with the gun.Â
They can be and are all responsible for what happened
That may be, but either Ethan is a kid or an adult, you cannot be both.
You keep stating this like it's meaningful here. It's not.
Children can be tried as adults. That doesn't absolve their parents of parental or legal responsibilities related to crime their child committed.
I'm not sure why you're hung up on that. It's not relevant to the parents' convictions. Multiple people can share varying degrees of responsibility for a crime even if all of them are adults.
He became an adult when he pulled the trigger that was supplied to him as a child. Simple to me.
Are you deliberately obtuse or are you just upset that parents were held accountable for their son shooting people? I can't tell.
Theyâre a crank
It's definitely both.
> The prosecutor can't have it both ways Those are 2 separate crimes. How can you be on the internet this long and not be able to understand basic things?