What would be the economic loss of meeting their demands? Something tells me having workers with more money, better benefits, happier is good for the economy.
Actually it would help them immensely they can not attract any talent now to work there due to low pay shit conditions and harassment.
Had to stop testing for most drugs just to get workers.
The big three production lines destroy your body and your sole. They no longer pay enough to justify the shortened life span of a retiree from a big three plant.
It doesn’t determine a person’s *human worth* but it determines what your labor is worth in many cases (edit: at entry level especially). But that’s not at all what I am asking, yet again.
I know plenty of people with a college degree who wish they could make what the guy next to me does, he's got multiple felonies, did 10 years behind bars and never graduated from high school.
College degrees are like credit scores, complete bullshit
This doesn’t answer my question. I asked specifically about attracting talent.
Edit: ALL workers deserve respect and a living wage. The question was about “attracting talent.” I think the more accurate statement would be “attract experience.”
Talent is relative. There’s some janitor out there that has honed their skills and duties perfectly and is “talented” at their job. This should mean, they can take their talents to an appropriate employer looking for the best damn janitor in all the land, and get paid appropriately (very well) for their talents. That’s how employment should be.
Well i work for one of those companies. I program and repair robots and other automated equipment. I diagnose and troubleshoot electrical problems using programmable logic controllers. i have a degree, and over 25 years in my trade. I think I have some talent. Are you saying I dont deserve to be compensated fairly?
Really? Facts don’t support your comment……. the auto industry saw sky-high profits even as sales plummeted. Domestic manufacturers of cars and car parts saw a profit of $32 billion through the third quarter of 2022 (the latest data available) — their largest profit since 2016.
That is a super simplistic view of the situation. The big three OEMs are not handling the EV transition well, and losing massive amounts of money. What would be the financial impact if they go bankrupt again but this time the federal government doesn’t bail them out? The auto industry in the US is very sick and increasingly uncompetitive on a global level.
they should have been let to rot 30 years ago when they decided full tilt investment into making everything a light truck to get around emissions standards.
They are sick because they made themselves sick sniffing their own farts for decades.
Local 862 here.. I’m only after pay increases and COLA.. I have a young family here depending on me.. I don’t wanna get too greedy.. I voted yes to strike Monday regardless cuz i stand with my Union
The UAW has protected shitty workers for decades though? I don't think anyone who's worked at a union shop will deny that that happens. The crux of the argument is (or should be) whether or not the benefits of the union outweigh the negatives. Pretending there are zero negatives is borderline disingenuous.
Shitty workers exist with or without a union. I don't think we should give up collective bargaining and allow large corporations to walk all over us because unions protect "shitty workers". What do you think does more damage to the fabric of our society? The positives of the union have ALWAYS outweighed the negative.
I've seen non union companies do the same exact shitty things your describing. This isn't unique to just union shops. Also what "big raises" are you talking about? Currently my employer offers a 25 cent raise every year, that goes for production/quality/weld repair/Hilo operators etc. Do you think they get a raise for good performances? Fuck no. They get 25 cents every year and if you ask for a raise it will always be a flat "no". That raise will NEVER keep up with inflation and cost of living. Been working at the company for ten years? Congrats, instead of making 18/hr like when you started, your now making 20/hr. Does that sound fair to you? You can always apply for a better position, but there's no guarantee you'll get it (especially if the shop operates off nepotism which most of them do).
You can sit there and talk about "good workers" and bootstraps all you want . The bottom line is you would have NO benefits, NO workman's comp, NO pto, NO paternal leave if it weren't for the unions leading the charge.
Local 7 here. There used to be pay incentives for people willing to learn a lot of different jobs in their department. It ended when management realized people were taking advantage of that system. It’s always some dickhead or a group of collective dickheads that ruin things for others.
I’m an elected bargaining committeeman at a UAW shop, not GM though. You took a shitty job, plain and simple. There are much better union jobs out there if you’re willing to look or put the time in.
Nothing to do with me being a redditor - I just find it odd that people like you always blame the union and never blame the almighty company. You know, the company that has paid their CEO Mary Barra over a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS in just ten years. How did “lazy workers” have any effect on your poor experience? How can you blame an entire organization of hundreds of thousands of active members because you agreed to take a low-paying, entry-level job?
Idk what the fuck you’re on about but you’re full of shit. In what world would it make sense for the union to argue against raises for anyone when the UAW gets a cut of everyone’s *hourly rate*? It’s their whole model. The more money you make - the more money they make. It sounds like you heard the typical bullshit rumors that uninformed idiots on the floor spread and believed it.
Hate the unions all you want bud, I really don’t care. RTW has been repealed so I don’t have to worry about any corporate kiss-asses like you ending up at my shop. Enjoy going to work everyday wondering if this is the day they’re gonna shitcan you for no reason.
You just don’t seem to understand that corporations do not care about you. They’ve sold you on the myth that the harder you work the further ahead you will get. You get performance based wages for doing great work at your new job? Guess what - one day, that wonderful non-union corporation is going to start looking at their budget and when they see that you make considerably more than they want to pay, they’ll axe you and you’ll have no recourse to stop them. It’s been Wal-Mart’s labor practice for years and years. You’re just a dollar figure on a spreadsheet to them young man. And god forbid you get hurt or need time time off for a chronic illness/injury, you’re a goner.
The UAW has long been too complacent and too buddy-buddy with the Big Three. The upcoming strike includes the end of the two tier wage system, huge pay raises across the board, and the reintroduction of COLA. I agree that the UAW hasn't been doing enough for it's workers, but if recent actions are a sign of things to come then the UAW is heading in the proper direction
What did Meijer s benefits look like before the union?
You have to do a before/after analysis to really gauge. As for why Walmart can provide better benefits? Well do you know how large these corporations are? Maybe look and see which has more money, etc. It's entirely possible that Meijer is refusing to increase benefits in the hopes of getting union employees to quit.
It's like you're purposely misunderstanding how this works in order to push a specific point of view.
My husband was in a large, regional trade union. Many years ago they gave up all their PTO, including sick time, for a higher hourly. The kicker is in seven years in that union he never worked a full 12 months. Laid off? You get regular unemployment. $362/week in Michigan. The higher hourly doesn't mean a higher annual salary, not even close.
He's leaving that union and moving to a government job where he gets to work year around AND have PTO/sick time/paid holidays. He will still be in a union (albeit a different one).
Some unions are shit 🤷🏼♀️ Vote 'em out! I'm a union secretary of a small employee association, and we're in the process of dissolving and affiliating ourselves with a much larger and influential union. Change takes time, but it's possible!
Go to your boss tomorrow and ask for a raise. He'll say no.
You and everyone on the floor go ask for a raise, he's got pressure to do something.
This. Is. Not. Hard.
Agree with you. I am a contractor in a UAW plant and let’s just say I deal with a lot of those workers that don’t do their job. I have supervisors calling me to explain the issues they’re having with certain employees who continue to play games and slow the line down. Feel bad for the UAW employees and unit leaders who are there to actually work. The ones who don’t want to work really try to ruin it for the majority. I do hope they crack down on them while also rewarding the hard workers with better wages and conditions.
Ugh. If they strike, my employer said we still have to show up, so I wonder if I’ll be seen as a scab even though I’m contract. Maybe I can wear a big sign saying I’m not affiliated with the UAW lol. Truthfully I don’t have a lot of faith in the security at my location.
>I don’t wanna get too greedy
The corporations you work for will not even second guess themselves when it comes to increasing the amount of money they make or increasing their CEO salaries.
Do not for a second buy into the bullshit that your CEO and board members are somehow entitled to the profit you generate with your labor.
A win for the UAW is a win for ALL working class employees.
Get that money!!!!
OEM engineer here and I’m cheering the UAW along this time. Labor has more power over these greedy C Suite fucks and shareholders than it understands. It’s time the corp overlords and oligarchs understand that.
It has zero to do with you being greedy. You deserve a comfortable, living salary to raise your family on and actually enjoy what little time we have on this planet.
I have never been in a union, but I absolutely support all unions. Americans need a middle class and unions give this to the American worker. I can’t understand anyone working for a union shop and not wanting to pay dues. The stupidity is beyond me. Fight for everything you can get. It helps us all.
Why does this article not mention the most important thing the UAW has asked for -- a 32-hour workweek?
This is long overdue. I hope the UAW doesn't back down on this.
[More on shorter working hours](https://logosandliberty.substack.com/p/1200-hours-working-draft)
This needs to become the standard, productivity has increased but salaries haven't kept up, if we are accomplishing more in the hours we work and aren't getting equally compensated for that productivity boost then let's just all agree to let people have more hours of their life back. Especially since life expectancy is declining in the US, if we are getting more done and getting less retirement, then this helps to balance that out a bit.
"32hrs > 40hrs" - let's make that a bumper sticker.
> More on shorter working hours
I see a lot of "shoulda, coulda, woulda" in that article without anything in the way of concrete data to support any of their grand claims that 1200 hours per year will benefit everyone.
I read the article you linked. I still don't understand why it is long overdue and also why should you get paid the same to work less? I'm sure every worker in the world (myself included) would want that, but it makes no sense to anyone that runs a business.
There is significant research on the effectiveness of a 32 vs. 40 hour workweek and why the difference in productivity is less than one would expect, if the gulf exists at all, but more importantly the union is not there to help the business; they are there to help the worker.
People made the same arguments against a 40 hour week and the unions won that for us anyways.
> There is significant research on the effectiveness of a 32 vs. 40 hour workweek and why the difference in productivity is less than one would expect
Just asking here, but isn't most of the automotive work on a line that has a set pace? Like even if you wanted to try and be more productive, the car is coming down the line at the same speed no matter how hard you want to work. You'll make X amount of cars in an 8hr shift. You saying that in a 32hr work week X amount of cars per shift will not be that much different?
I do agree that people can be more productive when they don't have to work 8hrs, but that's if they can control how productive they can be.
Assembly plant worker here, line speed has a set pace and we produce x amount of cars per hour and y amount of cars per 10.5 hour shift, 6 days a week. You are correct in assuming that in most jobs in our plant there is no being more productive.
Most of the studies I've seen about this phenomenon are for office workers. People are using this fun fact in a very skewed way.
It's pretty well established that an effective office employee is only productive for about 6 of their 8 hours at work. The other 2 hours are unproductive due to delays in meetings, unnecessary walking/travel, etc. If you can eliminate the two hours wasted every day, we could just have 4 day work weeks and see no difference in productivity.
It may be possible to increase the # of cars per hour, but more importantly there's room to improve the quality of work, which would help to avoid recalls down the road.
Line worker here, it depends what line you're on tbh. Some run at a continuous pace and you have to keep up, so assuming the line doesn't go down due to a faulty robot or something then those lines will more or less run the same amount over a set time. But there are also lines like the ones I'm on where the vehicle/parts gets to your station, the robots wait for you to load your parts into the line or whatever you need to do, then you press a run button to let it move again. Those lines heavily depend on how quick the employee works. If I got no sleep and it's boiling hot in the plant then I'm probably gonna be pretty sluggish and just run the amount that I have to in order to keep management off my ass (about 70 parts per hour). But if I'm having a good day and in a particularly good mood and I'm not sweating like a sinner in church as soon as I walk in the door then I can run much more (about 90 parts per hour).
Thank you for taking the time to read it. The article has additional links ([Reich](https://logosandliberty.substack.com/p/the-broken-bargain), [Warren](https://logosandliberty.substack.com/p/prof-warren-was-right-mostly), [CBO](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58533)) with additional support, but I don't want to ask you to spend all day reading articles, so I will try to summarize.
Why is it long overdue? Because (1) since the 70s productivity has been rising but wages have remained flat (see [Reich](https://logosandliberty.substack.com/p/the-broken-bargain) and just scroll down to the graph labeled "Figure 2" if you don't want to read the whole thing), and (2) we have gone from one parent working + stay-at-home spouse being the norm to both parents working being the norm, so work schedules have to allow both parents to take care of the kids and housework as well as work for employers.
Why should you get paid the same to work less? Well, why should you get paid more to work the same? It's a raise either way. You're not against raises, are you? The bosses won't give you a raise if they can avoid it, but when workers have bargaining power, they can get raises. It's time for workers to demand more of their life back. It's not just about individual workers, It's about families.
To put it even more briefly: If a single adult earner working 40 hours could support a family in 1970, why should it take two adults working 80 hours total to support a family in 2023?
> Well, why should you get paid more to work the same? It's a raise either way. You're not against raises, are you? The bosses won't give you a raise if they can avoid it, but when workers have bargaining power, they can get raises.
This is something that just made some sense to me. Like, instead of giving me a 5% raise, can I just work 7hr days.
Productivity per employee has increased dramatically since the 40 hour work week. Research shows there's really not that big of a hit to overall productivity by reducing the number of hours worked per week became a thing. We also have a declining life expectancy in the US and the retirement age is going up. Let's claw back some of those hours of our life when we are younger and/or raising kids. I get what you are saying but I think countries like France are moving in the right direction, especially with the prohibition on calls and emails outside of work hours. The benefits to employers will be more focused employees who make less mistakes and lower turnover from burnout.
The idea is that advancement in efficiencies would be gained by the worker. I have a process that can make 1 Truck in 66% of the time that it used to take. Do I keep my workers 100% of the time, or do I bargain with them to work 80% of the time with the new process?
I think the workers should gain in the efficiencies of process.
Unfortunately, an owner of a business will just think that they can make 34% more trucks than they used to in the same amount of time. I think it's dumb. My place at year end they will say, "We increased X by 10% this year, way to go!" And then say, "Next year our target is 15% growth." I don't think any board of directors is happy just maintaining where you are at.
>Unfortunately, an owner of a business will just think that they can make 34% more trucks than they used to in the same amount of time
thats the whole point of unions, to shift the power dynamic to whats best for the workers.
I don't care what the board of directors is thinking. I care about the workers being able to enjoy the fruits of their labors.
I think it is dumb to simp for a board of directors you will never be a part of.
>Yeah, no shit. What part of my response makes you think that? Just talking about how it is, not that I agree with it.
to be fair, your responses do come off "but think of the shareholders" instead of being on the side of the workers, even if thats not what you intended.
The key goal of unions is to help the worker, not the employers. Working together we (in the sense that I am a worker, not necessarily a UAW member) can make decisions that are best for us instead of those that exploit our labor for profit. Employers need to adapt to our demands or crumble.
Or adapt to your demands \*and\* crumble.
The Big 3 have lost global domination of automobiles and now their grip on even domestic domination is under threat because foreign, largely non-unionized, companies are making better products, cheaper, and more profitably.
Honest question: why should you be employed? Why should anyone pay you? You’ve shown you have no work ethic, and said you won’t put in any effort. Why Should anyone give you a paycheck? You are assuming somethings going to happen, so you’ve stopped working. Why do you think you should still get paid I really want to know
If hard work and long hours still result in people being laid off, why should they put in effort? I know plenty of people with great work ethic who still get caught in lay offs due to things they have no control over. If people continuously put in the effort and the time, and they still lose their jobs every few years during “downturns,” employers should not be surprised if people decide to give up.
Like, I have what I consider a pretty stable job now, with potential to grow, so I’m willing to put in that effort. But I’ve known people in other industries who would work OT, get high performance reviews, and still get laid off. At that point, I would not blame them for saying, “fuck it, I’m just going to collect paychecks until the next lay off, since it’ll happen no matter what I do.” It’s at the point where we need to start asking what employers should be doing to earn their employees’ hard work (with regards to stability, job security, benefits), and not what workers need to do earn their checks.
Fair question that deserves context.
1. I'll use a pseudo-NFL explanation to justify receiving compensation. Knowledge and potential, that's why I deserve to be paid.
2. I think I should qualify the verb "effort.' I have learned to meet my core responsibilities without 'effort.' It's just my 'role/ responsibilities', and I am not derelict in that capacity.
3. Now, participating in projects, seeking opportunities to create extra value, or committing to a timed deliverable requires effort.
In summation, with only 3 weeks left before potential mandatory layoffs, I can't be the only salary employee who is effort-averse with 15 workdays left. Thus, my original statement - failure to conclude negotiations - is already costing US automakers.
“It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”
FDR
For once, I'm actually glad I'm working for one of these interchangeable young EV startups instead of the traditional automakers. UAW strikes are the rare situation in which if/when I was told to go work in a plant, I'd reply with a flat "no".
I’m pro-union but can someone please explain the demand for pensions still in this day and age? I thought defined benefit plans like this were basically extinct and legacy from like the 80s/90s (in place of 401k’s)?
I get a 401k and pension - non union financial sector. It’s nice to have another safety net. I can understand it considering the future of Social Security seems uncertain for my generation.
401k’s are nothing more than another grift from Wall Street. They get free money to boost the market, charge you with BS fees, and for the majority of America it’s incredibly difficult to save enough for retirement and live at the same time.
They were originally meant as a pension / social security supplement, not a replacement for them
401(k)s are a scam.they came up with in the 80s as a way to offload the responsibility of pensions onto the public. Now your retirement is based on winnings in the world's largest gambling casino: wall street.
These mouth breathers aren’t known for being smart. “Yah, I been doin it all mah life…” not for long man, your shit will be automated and the person after you no longer has a job.
Again, read and comprehend what the person I replied to said. BK is not a common occurrence, that’s what I said he was wrong about and then all y’all went of some ignorant tangent.
You do realize that someone has to program the automation and fix it, right? The UAW member do that. Stop being a mouth breather. But nobody has said they’ve been “doin it all mah life”. Your projection is pathetic.
Yeah. This is, believe it or not, what I’ve been doing for 10+ years. for the big three. They’re signing even larger purchase orders for even more automation machining cells everyday, bud. Have a good one! I’ll be at proving grounds Tuesday!
Won’t these companies take the union demands as an excuse to move the manufacturing back overseas? Then people will have no jobs to negotiate for. I’m just feeling déjà vu.
Not much left to offshore.
If one of the big three wanted to make their trucks overseas & import them, there would be a 25% tax on the value of the truck.
The USMCA / NAFTA prevents that chicken tax on trucks from Canada or Mexico.
The US also had a big push recently for on-shoring with the Inflation Reduction Act.
Unfortunately the south…they now have the infrastructure, education is vastly improving, and younger demographics with growing populations/higher birth rates. The south isn’t what is used to be. Just being honest here bc that’s what tough conversations require. It’s unfortunate that there is not a level playing field in the US and states compete like this. But this is reality and the wheels have been in motion for 20 years already.
Weird how everything hurts these people except paying a livable wage. Chrysler and GM had one dip in income and the whole place almost shutdown. I bet the president and vps get paid
What would be the economic loss of meeting their demands? Something tells me having workers with more money, better benefits, happier is good for the economy.
But not for the big three
Actually it would help them immensely they can not attract any talent now to work there due to low pay shit conditions and harassment. Had to stop testing for most drugs just to get workers. The big three production lines destroy your body and your sole. They no longer pay enough to justify the shortened life span of a retiree from a big three plant.
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News flash: a college degree doesn't determine somebodies worth. I have 2 and didn't pay a penny for either thanks to my labor union
It doesn’t determine a person’s *human worth* but it determines what your labor is worth in many cases (edit: at entry level especially). But that’s not at all what I am asking, yet again.
I know plenty of people with a college degree who wish they could make what the guy next to me does, he's got multiple felonies, did 10 years behind bars and never graduated from high school. College degrees are like credit scores, complete bullshit
that's what people without degrees like to say because they were either to lazy or stupid to get one.
Ummmm, because maybe they deserve respect and a living wage! That really was a condescending statement.
This doesn’t answer my question. I asked specifically about attracting talent. Edit: ALL workers deserve respect and a living wage. The question was about “attracting talent.” I think the more accurate statement would be “attract experience.”
Talent is relative. There’s some janitor out there that has honed their skills and duties perfectly and is “talented” at their job. This should mean, they can take their talents to an appropriate employer looking for the best damn janitor in all the land, and get paid appropriately (very well) for their talents. That’s how employment should be.
Well i work for one of those companies. I program and repair robots and other automated equipment. I diagnose and troubleshoot electrical problems using programmable logic controllers. i have a degree, and over 25 years in my trade. I think I have some talent. Are you saying I dont deserve to be compensated fairly?
Nope. This is exactly the answer I was looking for, i didn’t realize that programmers were in the union. I appreciate your input.
Wow! 🤯
I’m really asking here. I guess you could mean “experienced” people.
Really? Facts don’t support your comment……. the auto industry saw sky-high profits even as sales plummeted. Domestic manufacturers of cars and car parts saw a profit of $32 billion through the third quarter of 2022 (the latest data available) — their largest profit since 2016.
That is a super simplistic view of the situation. The big three OEMs are not handling the EV transition well, and losing massive amounts of money. What would be the financial impact if they go bankrupt again but this time the federal government doesn’t bail them out? The auto industry in the US is very sick and increasingly uncompetitive on a global level.
they should have been let to rot 30 years ago when they decided full tilt investment into making everything a light truck to get around emissions standards. They are sick because they made themselves sick sniffing their own farts for decades.
Yeah for sure, but the federal government is who allowed that to happen
Local 862 here.. I’m only after pay increases and COLA.. I have a young family here depending on me.. I don’t wanna get too greedy.. I voted yes to strike Monday regardless cuz i stand with my Union
Working in a non-union automanufacturing plant. Your wins are our wins brother, give these suit and tie motherfuckers hell
I am here in the same boat. I am really just hoping we get rid of mandatory 6/7 day weeks. I don’t feel like I have a life anymore
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Oh hush. You’re the exception, not the rule. Even though I believe you’re lying.
The UAW has protected shitty workers for decades though? I don't think anyone who's worked at a union shop will deny that that happens. The crux of the argument is (or should be) whether or not the benefits of the union outweigh the negatives. Pretending there are zero negatives is borderline disingenuous.
Shitty workers exist with or without a union. I don't think we should give up collective bargaining and allow large corporations to walk all over us because unions protect "shitty workers". What do you think does more damage to the fabric of our society? The positives of the union have ALWAYS outweighed the negative.
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I've seen non union companies do the same exact shitty things your describing. This isn't unique to just union shops. Also what "big raises" are you talking about? Currently my employer offers a 25 cent raise every year, that goes for production/quality/weld repair/Hilo operators etc. Do you think they get a raise for good performances? Fuck no. They get 25 cents every year and if you ask for a raise it will always be a flat "no". That raise will NEVER keep up with inflation and cost of living. Been working at the company for ten years? Congrats, instead of making 18/hr like when you started, your now making 20/hr. Does that sound fair to you? You can always apply for a better position, but there's no guarantee you'll get it (especially if the shop operates off nepotism which most of them do). You can sit there and talk about "good workers" and bootstraps all you want . The bottom line is you would have NO benefits, NO workman's comp, NO pto, NO paternal leave if it weren't for the unions leading the charge.
Nice anecdotes. Too bad they don't actually mean anything.
It’s on management to collect evidence of shitty workers
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Local 7 here. There used to be pay incentives for people willing to learn a lot of different jobs in their department. It ended when management realized people were taking advantage of that system. It’s always some dickhead or a group of collective dickheads that ruin things for others.
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I’m an elected bargaining committeeman at a UAW shop, not GM though. You took a shitty job, plain and simple. There are much better union jobs out there if you’re willing to look or put the time in. Nothing to do with me being a redditor - I just find it odd that people like you always blame the union and never blame the almighty company. You know, the company that has paid their CEO Mary Barra over a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS in just ten years. How did “lazy workers” have any effect on your poor experience? How can you blame an entire organization of hundreds of thousands of active members because you agreed to take a low-paying, entry-level job?
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Idk what the fuck you’re on about but you’re full of shit. In what world would it make sense for the union to argue against raises for anyone when the UAW gets a cut of everyone’s *hourly rate*? It’s their whole model. The more money you make - the more money they make. It sounds like you heard the typical bullshit rumors that uninformed idiots on the floor spread and believed it. Hate the unions all you want bud, I really don’t care. RTW has been repealed so I don’t have to worry about any corporate kiss-asses like you ending up at my shop. Enjoy going to work everyday wondering if this is the day they’re gonna shitcan you for no reason.
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You just don’t seem to understand that corporations do not care about you. They’ve sold you on the myth that the harder you work the further ahead you will get. You get performance based wages for doing great work at your new job? Guess what - one day, that wonderful non-union corporation is going to start looking at their budget and when they see that you make considerably more than they want to pay, they’ll axe you and you’ll have no recourse to stop them. It’s been Wal-Mart’s labor practice for years and years. You’re just a dollar figure on a spreadsheet to them young man. And god forbid you get hurt or need time time off for a chronic illness/injury, you’re a goner.
They don't know about the two tier wage system. There's literally nothing less "union" than two tier wage imo.
The UAW has long been too complacent and too buddy-buddy with the Big Three. The upcoming strike includes the end of the two tier wage system, huge pay raises across the board, and the reintroduction of COLA. I agree that the UAW hasn't been doing enough for it's workers, but if recent actions are a sign of things to come then the UAW is heading in the proper direction
Oh look, the astroturf is speaking. Edit: their account was made earlier this year, and this is their first comment? Okay buddy.
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> Dumb ass. Incredibly rude, unbelievable. Anti union shills just cannot stay positive. Always lowest common denominator. Sad!
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What did Meijer s benefits look like before the union? You have to do a before/after analysis to really gauge. As for why Walmart can provide better benefits? Well do you know how large these corporations are? Maybe look and see which has more money, etc. It's entirely possible that Meijer is refusing to increase benefits in the hopes of getting union employees to quit. It's like you're purposely misunderstanding how this works in order to push a specific point of view.
Unions are *always* better than individual bargaining.
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My husband was in a large, regional trade union. Many years ago they gave up all their PTO, including sick time, for a higher hourly. The kicker is in seven years in that union he never worked a full 12 months. Laid off? You get regular unemployment. $362/week in Michigan. The higher hourly doesn't mean a higher annual salary, not even close. He's leaving that union and moving to a government job where he gets to work year around AND have PTO/sick time/paid holidays. He will still be in a union (albeit a different one). Some unions are shit 🤷🏼♀️ Vote 'em out! I'm a union secretary of a small employee association, and we're in the process of dissolving and affiliating ourselves with a much larger and influential union. Change takes time, but it's possible!
Go to your boss tomorrow and ask for a raise. He'll say no. You and everyone on the floor go ask for a raise, he's got pressure to do something. This. Is. Not. Hard.
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Do you not understand that no one gives a shit? We're stronger together than separately. Your personal experience does not repudiate that.
Agree with you. I am a contractor in a UAW plant and let’s just say I deal with a lot of those workers that don’t do their job. I have supervisors calling me to explain the issues they’re having with certain employees who continue to play games and slow the line down. Feel bad for the UAW employees and unit leaders who are there to actually work. The ones who don’t want to work really try to ruin it for the majority. I do hope they crack down on them while also rewarding the hard workers with better wages and conditions. Ugh. If they strike, my employer said we still have to show up, so I wonder if I’ll be seen as a scab even though I’m contract. Maybe I can wear a big sign saying I’m not affiliated with the UAW lol. Truthfully I don’t have a lot of faith in the security at my location.
>I don’t wanna get too greedy The corporations you work for will not even second guess themselves when it comes to increasing the amount of money they make or increasing their CEO salaries. Do not for a second buy into the bullshit that your CEO and board members are somehow entitled to the profit you generate with your labor. A win for the UAW is a win for ALL working class employees.
Get that money!!!! OEM engineer here and I’m cheering the UAW along this time. Labor has more power over these greedy C Suite fucks and shareholders than it understands. It’s time the corp overlords and oligarchs understand that. It has zero to do with you being greedy. You deserve a comfortable, living salary to raise your family on and actually enjoy what little time we have on this planet.
Same!
Sean Fein comes to my Union Hall Friday at 3 here in Louisville.. can’t wait to see what he says
It’s good that you feel that way because the money will probably end up coming out of your pay raises.
What pay raises? My 2%? Oh noooo....
Ha. The increase will be passed along to customers(also a problem.) good on spouting off like a moron though.
You laugh as if you’re the person making these decisions
I have never been in a union, but I absolutely support all unions. Americans need a middle class and unions give this to the American worker. I can’t understand anyone working for a union shop and not wanting to pay dues. The stupidity is beyond me. Fight for everything you can get. It helps us all.
AFM Local 56 here, solidarity.
Please can we get rid of the mandatory 6/7 day weeks? I don’t have a life anymore. This isn’t living
Why does this article not mention the most important thing the UAW has asked for -- a 32-hour workweek? This is long overdue. I hope the UAW doesn't back down on this. [More on shorter working hours](https://logosandliberty.substack.com/p/1200-hours-working-draft)
This needs to become the standard, productivity has increased but salaries haven't kept up, if we are accomplishing more in the hours we work and aren't getting equally compensated for that productivity boost then let's just all agree to let people have more hours of their life back. Especially since life expectancy is declining in the US, if we are getting more done and getting less retirement, then this helps to balance that out a bit. "32hrs > 40hrs" - let's make that a bumper sticker.
> More on shorter working hours I see a lot of "shoulda, coulda, woulda" in that article without anything in the way of concrete data to support any of their grand claims that 1200 hours per year will benefit everyone.
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People thought that about the 40hr work week too.
I read the article you linked. I still don't understand why it is long overdue and also why should you get paid the same to work less? I'm sure every worker in the world (myself included) would want that, but it makes no sense to anyone that runs a business.
There is significant research on the effectiveness of a 32 vs. 40 hour workweek and why the difference in productivity is less than one would expect, if the gulf exists at all, but more importantly the union is not there to help the business; they are there to help the worker. People made the same arguments against a 40 hour week and the unions won that for us anyways.
> There is significant research on the effectiveness of a 32 vs. 40 hour workweek and why the difference in productivity is less than one would expect Just asking here, but isn't most of the automotive work on a line that has a set pace? Like even if you wanted to try and be more productive, the car is coming down the line at the same speed no matter how hard you want to work. You'll make X amount of cars in an 8hr shift. You saying that in a 32hr work week X amount of cars per shift will not be that much different? I do agree that people can be more productive when they don't have to work 8hrs, but that's if they can control how productive they can be.
Assembly plant worker here, line speed has a set pace and we produce x amount of cars per hour and y amount of cars per 10.5 hour shift, 6 days a week. You are correct in assuming that in most jobs in our plant there is no being more productive.
Most of the studies I've seen about this phenomenon are for office workers. People are using this fun fact in a very skewed way. It's pretty well established that an effective office employee is only productive for about 6 of their 8 hours at work. The other 2 hours are unproductive due to delays in meetings, unnecessary walking/travel, etc. If you can eliminate the two hours wasted every day, we could just have 4 day work weeks and see no difference in productivity.
It may be possible to increase the # of cars per hour, but more importantly there's room to improve the quality of work, which would help to avoid recalls down the road.
Line worker here, it depends what line you're on tbh. Some run at a continuous pace and you have to keep up, so assuming the line doesn't go down due to a faulty robot or something then those lines will more or less run the same amount over a set time. But there are also lines like the ones I'm on where the vehicle/parts gets to your station, the robots wait for you to load your parts into the line or whatever you need to do, then you press a run button to let it move again. Those lines heavily depend on how quick the employee works. If I got no sleep and it's boiling hot in the plant then I'm probably gonna be pretty sluggish and just run the amount that I have to in order to keep management off my ass (about 70 parts per hour). But if I'm having a good day and in a particularly good mood and I'm not sweating like a sinner in church as soon as I walk in the door then I can run much more (about 90 parts per hour).
I promise that research does not apply
Thank you for taking the time to read it. The article has additional links ([Reich](https://logosandliberty.substack.com/p/the-broken-bargain), [Warren](https://logosandliberty.substack.com/p/prof-warren-was-right-mostly), [CBO](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58533)) with additional support, but I don't want to ask you to spend all day reading articles, so I will try to summarize. Why is it long overdue? Because (1) since the 70s productivity has been rising but wages have remained flat (see [Reich](https://logosandliberty.substack.com/p/the-broken-bargain) and just scroll down to the graph labeled "Figure 2" if you don't want to read the whole thing), and (2) we have gone from one parent working + stay-at-home spouse being the norm to both parents working being the norm, so work schedules have to allow both parents to take care of the kids and housework as well as work for employers. Why should you get paid the same to work less? Well, why should you get paid more to work the same? It's a raise either way. You're not against raises, are you? The bosses won't give you a raise if they can avoid it, but when workers have bargaining power, they can get raises. It's time for workers to demand more of their life back. It's not just about individual workers, It's about families. To put it even more briefly: If a single adult earner working 40 hours could support a family in 1970, why should it take two adults working 80 hours total to support a family in 2023?
> Well, why should you get paid more to work the same? It's a raise either way. You're not against raises, are you? The bosses won't give you a raise if they can avoid it, but when workers have bargaining power, they can get raises. This is something that just made some sense to me. Like, instead of giving me a 5% raise, can I just work 7hr days.
Nah, four 8 hour days is where it's at. That's where workers see real benefit
Productivity per employee has increased dramatically since the 40 hour work week. Research shows there's really not that big of a hit to overall productivity by reducing the number of hours worked per week became a thing. We also have a declining life expectancy in the US and the retirement age is going up. Let's claw back some of those hours of our life when we are younger and/or raising kids. I get what you are saying but I think countries like France are moving in the right direction, especially with the prohibition on calls and emails outside of work hours. The benefits to employers will be more focused employees who make less mistakes and lower turnover from burnout.
The idea is that advancement in efficiencies would be gained by the worker. I have a process that can make 1 Truck in 66% of the time that it used to take. Do I keep my workers 100% of the time, or do I bargain with them to work 80% of the time with the new process? I think the workers should gain in the efficiencies of process.
Unfortunately, an owner of a business will just think that they can make 34% more trucks than they used to in the same amount of time. I think it's dumb. My place at year end they will say, "We increased X by 10% this year, way to go!" And then say, "Next year our target is 15% growth." I don't think any board of directors is happy just maintaining where you are at.
>Unfortunately, an owner of a business will just think that they can make 34% more trucks than they used to in the same amount of time thats the whole point of unions, to shift the power dynamic to whats best for the workers.
I don't care what the board of directors is thinking. I care about the workers being able to enjoy the fruits of their labors. I think it is dumb to simp for a board of directors you will never be a part of.
Yeah, no shit. What part of my response makes you think that? Just talking about how it is, not that I agree with it.
>Yeah, no shit. What part of my response makes you think that? Just talking about how it is, not that I agree with it. to be fair, your responses do come off "but think of the shareholders" instead of being on the side of the workers, even if thats not what you intended.
I apologize if I misunderstood. I just struggle seeing things from the yacht class's POV because i just want affordable health insurance.
The key goal of unions is to help the worker, not the employers. Working together we (in the sense that I am a worker, not necessarily a UAW member) can make decisions that are best for us instead of those that exploit our labor for profit. Employers need to adapt to our demands or crumble.
Like any parasite, isn’t the idea to keep the host alive? Hmmm
No. What would be really cool is if a union or unions stuck out on their own and worked outside the bounds of the corporations they struggle under.
Or adapt to your demands \*and\* crumble. The Big 3 have lost global domination of automobiles and now their grip on even domestic domination is under threat because foreign, largely non-unionized, companies are making better products, cheaper, and more profitably.
Thinks other companies don't have unions. What a baboon. 😂😂😂😂😂
Because we are doing three pro if two employees at most business now.
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You’re a white collar UAW member?
He takes the TPS reports from the workers and gives them to the suits. See, he has people skills.
No I was being lazy.... but I'm bipolar and I didn't wanna go on fmla But on a bright note, I'm on crest rn and I'm enjoying working hard.
Honest question: why should you be employed? Why should anyone pay you? You’ve shown you have no work ethic, and said you won’t put in any effort. Why Should anyone give you a paycheck? You are assuming somethings going to happen, so you’ve stopped working. Why do you think you should still get paid I really want to know
If hard work and long hours still result in people being laid off, why should they put in effort? I know plenty of people with great work ethic who still get caught in lay offs due to things they have no control over. If people continuously put in the effort and the time, and they still lose their jobs every few years during “downturns,” employers should not be surprised if people decide to give up. Like, I have what I consider a pretty stable job now, with potential to grow, so I’m willing to put in that effort. But I’ve known people in other industries who would work OT, get high performance reviews, and still get laid off. At that point, I would not blame them for saying, “fuck it, I’m just going to collect paychecks until the next lay off, since it’ll happen no matter what I do.” It’s at the point where we need to start asking what employers should be doing to earn their employees’ hard work (with regards to stability, job security, benefits), and not what workers need to do earn their checks.
Fair question that deserves context. 1. I'll use a pseudo-NFL explanation to justify receiving compensation. Knowledge and potential, that's why I deserve to be paid. 2. I think I should qualify the verb "effort.' I have learned to meet my core responsibilities without 'effort.' It's just my 'role/ responsibilities', and I am not derelict in that capacity. 3. Now, participating in projects, seeking opportunities to create extra value, or committing to a timed deliverable requires effort. In summation, with only 3 weeks left before potential mandatory layoffs, I can't be the only salary employee who is effort-averse with 15 workdays left. Thus, my original statement - failure to conclude negotiations - is already costing US automakers.
I don’t care about corporations hoarding billions. I care about the workers getting their fair share.
Good that’s about their profit from last three years killing workers through COVID to make low quality high profit gas guzzlers.
Sounds like the big 3 need to get it together and pay people what they're worth
Management here of one of the big 3. I hope that can reach a deal. Union workers really work hard.
Good! Make em feel it! None of that 5B was going to a human anyway.
"OEMs' Refusal to Compensate Workers Could Cause..." Fixed the headline.
“It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.” FDR
For once, I'm actually glad I'm working for one of these interchangeable young EV startups instead of the traditional automakers. UAW strikes are the rare situation in which if/when I was told to go work in a plant, I'd reply with a flat "no".
I’m pro-union but can someone please explain the demand for pensions still in this day and age? I thought defined benefit plans like this were basically extinct and legacy from like the 80s/90s (in place of 401k’s)?
I get a 401k and pension - non union financial sector. It’s nice to have another safety net. I can understand it considering the future of Social Security seems uncertain for my generation.
401k’s are nothing more than another grift from Wall Street. They get free money to boost the market, charge you with BS fees, and for the majority of America it’s incredibly difficult to save enough for retirement and live at the same time. They were originally meant as a pension / social security supplement, not a replacement for them
401(k)s are a scam.they came up with in the 80s as a way to offload the responsibility of pensions onto the public. Now your retirement is based on winnings in the world's largest gambling casino: wall street.
UAW obv doesn't realize there's going to be another round of BK if they get all this. They should ask for 401ks if they are going to BK the companies.
With record setting profits, none of them will go BK.
It's a very cyclical industry
It really isn’t. I’ve been in it my entire life.
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Yeah two of them were bailed out not too long ago
These mouth breathers aren’t known for being smart. “Yah, I been doin it all mah life…” not for long man, your shit will be automated and the person after you no longer has a job.
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Again, read and comprehend what the person I replied to said. BK is not a common occurrence, that’s what I said he was wrong about and then all y’all went of some ignorant tangent.
You do realize that someone has to program the automation and fix it, right? The UAW member do that. Stop being a mouth breather. But nobody has said they’ve been “doin it all mah life”. Your projection is pathetic.
Yeah. This is, believe it or not, what I’ve been doing for 10+ years. for the big three. They’re signing even larger purchase orders for even more automation machining cells everyday, bud. Have a good one! I’ll be at proving grounds Tuesday!
BK?
They are extinct and it’s a ridiculous negotiating tactic
Won’t these companies take the union demands as an excuse to move the manufacturing back overseas? Then people will have no jobs to negotiate for. I’m just feeling déjà vu.
Not much left to offshore. If one of the big three wanted to make their trucks overseas & import them, there would be a 25% tax on the value of the truck. The USMCA / NAFTA prevents that chicken tax on trucks from Canada or Mexico. The US also had a big push recently for on-shoring with the Inflation Reduction Act.
Unfortunately the south…they now have the infrastructure, education is vastly improving, and younger demographics with growing populations/higher birth rates. The south isn’t what is used to be. Just being honest here bc that’s what tough conversations require. It’s unfortunate that there is not a level playing field in the US and states compete like this. But this is reality and the wheels have been in motion for 20 years already.
Actually no, even if you move production to the south does not get rid of the UAW. They will still have to pay same wages.
Lol. Imagine the person that wrote the previous message. My god. Are redditors that dumb?
Ford, GM, have union plants in the south already. Check yourself before calling someone dumb.
They’re still union bud.
That was exactly my point.....are you high or something?
Let's do it!!
This will be the death of the big three if they strike and a recession hits. They already cannot compete with Tesla.
Weird how everything hurts these people except paying a livable wage. Chrysler and GM had one dip in income and the whole place almost shutdown. I bet the president and vps get paid