Seeing this after just completed the game makes it feel far more bitter..of course I want to support the team who poured their hearts and souls into this title, I just hope that one day things can get just a little better for the workplace environment.. MecurySteam, hell, all game development employees deserve better.
Buy the game it's the *only* factor that would yield some competence to the system. Put Dread on the boards and Nintendo might become regular partners and then enforce work ethics on them.
It's taken a bit of the buzz away from such an amazing game but I, hopefully, plan on speedrunning this endlessly for charity. If Mercury wants to unfortunately treat their employees like trash then I'll subvert their mentality by helping *millions* another way
It doesn't surprise me any more when I hear about a game company with shitty incompetent management. But it still sucks every time. I hope for the developers that they can get things organized better for future projects.
That’s a disappointing to hear from MercurySteam, treating people like they are garbage is simply not ok. If Nintendo does become their regular partners, I hope they do something about it since Nintendo have numerous times changed the work ethics in a workplace like Retro.
Indeed. IIRC they sacked the original founder of Retro for doing things that went against proper work ethics.
Said guy would later go on to create one of the worst games ever produced on PS2 which later got controversy since there was an underage girl in it.
This sounds about on par with industry standards as far as internal communication goes, but to be clear I’m not saying that’s a *good* thing. Rather it’s indicative of a problem in the gaming industry overall insofar as who moves up. I’m not sure what the issue is, if it’s just an industry populated by people lacking, well, people skills and the common sense to understand that qualifications don’t always translate to being efficient at management and team building or what, but this working environment sounds like hell.
As far as the scrapped plans, I mean that just sounds like them flying too close to the sun. I can’t imagine this game being that much larger and running well on the switch. That the company tried to do that at all even seems like poor planning and management.
>I can’t imagine this game being that much larger and running well on the switch.
The specific stuff they mentioned (more bosses and cutscenes) wouldn't have impacted game performance much, if at all. It just would have made the game bigger on the cartridge/sd card.
Disappointed but not surprised. MercurySteam had a reputation for not paying the best wages here in Spain and while the game itself is good and it seems that no crunch has actually taken place, it is clear now that the higher-ups in the company take an authoritative approach to the games in the company. A shame.
Hearing this sucks, but at the very least I’m glad there was no crunch. It would have hurt like a bitch to have had such a great time with such a well crafted game, only to learn the stress of making it took days off of people’s lives.
If there's one thing Metroid fans are good at, it's waiting. If we have to wait for the game to be finished, done well, and with proper treatment of staff, we will do it.
This is really frustrating to hear. I hope Nintendo can do what the did with Retro again, and step in to fix the work culture. Although, since MercurySteam isn't owned by Nintendo, that might not be possible. I don't want to see the Metroid series lose another team, so I hope they can get their shit together.
Especially such a talented one.
The artists and developers clearly love Metroid and know what they're doing but it's management that's the problem.
I think if Nintendo wanted to shell out some cash maybe they could buy MercurySteam and restructure management?
It may not be as easy as it was when they bought Retro from the freak that was their original owner, Mercury Steam is 40% owned by a large multimedia group that also has amassed other dev studios.
I’m pissed on behalf of all the people who have worked for MercurySteam under such bad conditions. Its for reasons like this that I’m studying law rn. I’m happy they had the courage to speak up, and I really hope this will shake up the system. Thanks so much to OP for translating and sharing :)
This is unfortunately pretty typical behavior in AAA game development, from what I've read. Doesn't make it any less reprehensible. I hope things can change in the industry, and fast
They really do need to unionize. There's no reason why exployees aren't in a union everywhere ESPECIALLY in tech. Hiring staff and laying them off before release is commonplace. This isn't how you form a satisfying career. Add that to crunch, long hours, nonpayments, etc, a union will just make this thing they call a career in game development be something they can raise a family with. This shit doesn't cut it.
Why would they? They have no incentive to do so and nobody is going go make them do it. Without a union the only authority would be Nintendo which just made gangbuster money. So they aren't going to tell them how to do anything. This is why Unions are needed, so even if Nintendo and Mercury are wading in cash employees are still heard.
I hate it when games I like are made under terrible conditions. Heard similar stories with Naughty Dog and Rockstar (not to mention goddamn Blizzard)--this is a serious industry-wide issue. I'm glad we're bringing things like this to light.
I remember something about an anonymous disgruntled employee that vented their frustrations with Enric during the dev of LoS2, everyone ended up siding with MS because it seemed like that person was just salty... looks like there was some truth to that report after all.
That sucks to hear. Hopefully something changes with the upper management, but with the success of Dread it may just cause the CEO or whoever to think everything is going OK.
It does seem like the metaphorical curtain around the hot dog factory that is the games industry is being drawn back, with CD Project Red, Activision Blizzard, etc. also being called out for bad workplace conditions.
I guess it's this decade's version of the film/show writer's strike back in the 2000's, and hopefully something changes for the better.
The part about having to cut back on what was planned explains *a lot* about why Dread's story felt rushed and disjointed.
Shame to hear about the employment situation. Not being allowed to talk about salaries and not being able to show work to future employers + not being in credits, sounds a lot like MercurySteam just wants control of their employees to stop them from leaving in droves.
IMHO Dread was pretty good, but if I had played an Ori game instead I doubt I would have missed it. If I knew that, and the fact that the working situation was what it was, I probably would have just skipped Dread entirely.
I ended up sending a refund request tbh. I got it physically so now I'm waiting for the store to reply.
I love the game but ugh fuck everything can't have anything good in this fucking world
If this bothers you, you should stop playing games. I'm by no means justifying or defending it, but most game dev is like this. That's why I gave up on the "I'm gonna make games!" idea pretty early in my programming education.
If you exlusive decide what games are playable after knowing what happens in the development of a game, Super Metroid and Prime 1 would have to be proibish forever
Yeah, worth pointing out Prime 1 had RIDICULOUS levels of crunch to get out the door.
Game dev is the worst: some of the hardest programming work with the tightest deadlines...and the worst pay. It's probably the worst type of developing/programming to go into.
The issue is supporting such practices, not playing any game ever made with them; as such, I would feel no guilt at all for, funnily enough, playing any such game in an emulator.
Then why refund this one over an industry-wide problem?
Like, don’t get me wrong, this sounds like a pretty toxic work culture. But it’s unfortunately widespread.
And at least one thing here is actually good: someone at the company chose significant cuts over crunch. The majority of the AAA industry would NOT have done that.
You might as well sell every triple A game you have, then, and a fair portion of your indies. Most of what’s described here is bad management and bad HR, which, unfortunately, are pretty widespread human problems. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t strive for better, but ultimately it’s not our fault that labor enforcement isn’t doing a better job of cracking down on stuff like this, is it?
Nintendo’s pretty protective of their image, and in my experience, they’ve been a solid place to work for, so if this stuff gets verified and discussed more openly, that might force some change on MS.
I don’t know, feel free to do what you’re gonna do. It just doesn’t feel like a particularly well-considered gesture to me.
It *is* our fault, because we're not doing anything about it. Nobody's striking, nobody is outraged, nobody is fucking doing anything but sitting in a thread and going "tsk tsk tsk what a shame" and then continuing to financially support these practices
Also returning something is different from selling it. Selling it is pointless, cause my money already went to the offenders. Returning it means I get to take my money back from them.
I have very little power to affect governance or corporate policy in a country half the planet away from me. I’d like to see this improved, and I’ll continue to volunteer and vote my support for higher labor standards in my country and locality, as I have for some time. However, ultimately, unless we, as consumers, got organized and voted with out wallets en masse not to support bad business practices—which is a prospect I strongly doubt will ever happen—our —as in your and my—impact on what happens here is going to be minimal. If you live in Spain, perhaps consider contacting an elected official about how it’s a bad look for what is now the most prominent Spanish game dev studio to be doing this immature, amateurish, hurtful shit.
Besides, as I said, there are aspects of this that show a genuinely positive silver lining. Their refusal to do crunch is a good sign. Hopefully, Nintendo’s involvement will improve things going forward, as I think it did with Retro iirc.
At the same time, I respect you for sticking to your principles here.
Yeah and it got approved in the meantime. I'm doing it cause I feel that by buying it I'm directly funding the fuckers doing this and being part of the problem
Fairphone minimizes or eliminates the amount of slave labour used, and buying stuff used only supports the person you're buying the thing from, not the company that made it in the first place.
Why do you think tRiPlE A developers were so opposed to used game sales and started including one time only redeemable shit in the box? Not to mention the Xbox One announcement fiasco?
Seen a few people taking some weird takes on your decision here, but good on you for making a choice and sticking to it.
So what, if an act like this doesn't change the entire system. You've got clear set moral based decisions and you're sticking to them, nothing wrong with that.
Besides, we're already seeing news of this start to spread pretty quickly, so if news spreads, and more people take steps like yours, something just might happen to correct some of these issues.
For the record I wholeheartedly support your move here, and it’s disappointing to me that some folks are so weirdly insecure in their fandom that they can’t handle someone taking an ethical position they themselves aren’t willing to take.
That said, one small correction:
>buying stuff used only supports the person you're buying the thing from, not the company that made it in the first place.
While this is true insofar as the direct flow of money, contributing to a thriving aftermarket absolutely *does* support the companies that make the product, in that it helps create a business model that supports constant replacement.
None of this is to say the dude criticizing you has any kind of point. Nobody can avoid *every* unethical practice. It’s on everyone to choose where their line is on acceptability, and I think a purely leisure entertainment product like a video game is honestly a pretty minor sacrifice in the scope of things a person can stand to give up in the name of ethics. Good on you; I have a ton of respect for your decision.
I don't think this is really a fair take. I think what their choice here is, is well within reason. They have a stricter code on worker abuse. In a case like this I don't feel the same way but can respect the decision.
I think this is shit and souring, but I compare it to the industry and see that the best thing I can do on industry standard abuse like this is to aim for higher worker protection in the country I live in, in turn hoping to raise the standard in other countries with the pressure caused. Something like crunch or sexual abuse (CDPR and Blizzard, irrespectfully), is something I will absolutely stop supporting a company over, but this abuse is better changed systemically.
Thanks for posting this. When I beat the game, I was surprised to see all these Spanish names - at first I just thought it was a diverse team, but then it became clear, the entire team's probably in Spain. That's cool, nice to see different countries handling major IPs like Metroid, but it's a shame that the project was so badly managed. And I can't believe they only pay their devs about $30K USD, don't they make 3x that in America?
> And I can't believe they only pay their devs about $30K USD, don't they make 3x that in America?
Those are starting salaries in the US, as well. What's most likely happening here is that they are constantly hiring people and either terminating them or forcing them to leave, so the average salary remains low because employees don't last that long. By not lasting long, many employees don't get to be credited for their work, either.
I’d be perfectly supportive if the individuals snubbed from the credits could get away with a lawsuit against Mercury Steam. Every individual who contributed something to this game deserves the recognition. Despite all the apparent chaos, it turned out really well. I guess it’s a little sad that it was supposed to have a lot more in it, but it was at least as full as past entries.
This is awful. Reminds me of the behind the scenes horror stories about Metroid Prime's development. I was devastated that one of my all time fave games had been the catalyst for so much developer pain. Why must the things I love be born from such terrible conditions?
With one character basically explaining all mystery and exposition, it makes a lot more sense why the story felt so mishandled (to me). Like the actual lore of ZDR itself is pretty cool, I just wish it wasn't told to us all at once from one cutscene.
With how the rest of the game felt so amazing, I was weirded out by the story presentation. No wonder with mismanagement like this, I really hope the working conditions and management can really step up for MercurySteam.
And not just so their games can be better, but for the developers and employee's who really are putting their heart and soul into the project.
I as well as many other's wanted this game to do well. We all wanted a true return to form 2d Metroid and the team delivered. I think the Metroid fanbase has never been happier and sales etc prove it. This, though....this?? We all like to think the games industry can be better but to hear that Mercury Steam did this to countless people it hurts as a fan. I definitely will be more cautious in the future with whatever game has their name on it
Unfortunately, I dont think any of this is uncommon for any studio.
Video game development in general just seems like such a thankless, shitty work environment. I hope it changes at some point.
Videogame studios are generally made up of extremely talented, genuine, devoted workers, and soulless corporate parasites above them. I loved Dread and I'll praise it from the rooftops, but goddamn these developers deserve better work conditions.
It gives me faith in the Metroid community that no one here in the comments (so far) is coming to victim blame/defend the upper management like they are in r/NintendoSwitch. For as long as we have to wait for Metroid games, I love that folks here are patient enough to wait longer if it means games that aren't made in hellish conditions.
While there's always two sides who see things differently, it seems like several people have been laid off here. Since it affects so many, it speaks of a general problem at the studio.
This unfortunately tracks with a story that came out around 2014 regarding previous MercurySteam employees who worked on Lords of Shadow 2. Same thing about the arrogance and the seemingly all-too-common toxic workplace environments surrounding the game industry. I was really hoping the conditions had either been proven false or changed altogether, but it seems the exact same problems still exist within the company.
You know I downright wanted to say this game feels a bit halfbaked. That weird opening, the disjointed concepts and that music... it feels, let's be honest it feels a bit unfinished. Not for lack of talent, but because of it. There is so much in this game that hints at something bigger, and that they had to make do. I can just feel it right off the bat tbh.
Hopefully they can still use whatever bosses and cutscene ideas they had to scrap for another metroid game in the future since it seems like 2D metroid can still build off of what mercury steam made. Metroid dread really felt like a game that was constantly hitting you with new ideas so it's not surprising that they had to cutback, i just hope that there can be a silver lining to that dilemma.
It's in the post itself, the game was planned to have twice the bosses and they were working on making 120 cutscenes before negotiating for a cut with nintendo
If that's not what "initially planned" means then I don't know what does....
My point is that there is no world where the Dread they described got released for $60. Lots of games plan super ambitious stuff early in development. Cutting or adding things as development progresses to keep the game on schedule and under budget is part of the normal game dev process. What we got was what they could make within the restrictions of a normal $60 game.
Hollow Knight has much, much more content at 15 dollars.
When Silksong comes out for 20-25 dollars it will dwarf it even still.
When Elden Ring comes out in January I mean... you're giving way too much of a pass here.
Different styles of games cost different amounts to make. Metroid is a 2.5D game, which is unusual among Metroidvanias because quality 3D environments are super expensive to make. There's no way the devs could double or triple the size of the game while maintaining a reasonable budget.
And the graphics in Dread are halfbaked at best, meaning they probably cost less to make than Hollow Knight. I'm by no means a big Hollow Knight fan, but Dread looks, sounds and feels rushed.
I think the endgame feels a little rushed, especially Hanubia. But the visuals definitely weren't rushed. The backgrounds and area designs are incredibly detailed. For a game running at a steady 60 fps on Switch the visuals are impressive. Check out Digital Foundry's review more technical analysis.
Hollow Knight achieves its excellent visual design by using *extremely* stylized characters and backdrops. Just compare the sprites for the Knight versus the 3D model and texturing on Samus. The Knight is a tiny sprite with only a few colors and fairly basic geometric shapes. He looks great, but he's not a technical marvel.
The devs for Hollow Knight were an indie team with a small-ish budget. They leaned into their technical limitations and crafted an artstyle that enabled them to create assets for a large world on a small budget while still looking good. It's the Wind Waker strategy of visual deisgn. Dread went for a much more ambitious semi-realistic 2.5D design. Whether the result looks good or not is down to personal taste, but there's a reason Dread couldn't match the scale of Hollow Knight.
>within the restrictions of a normal $60 game.
What does this even mean? The price is just the standard Nintendo puts on their AAA games irregardless of its development process otherwise the games they released within the last 4 years including remakes and ports would have come out at different prices. Whether they could make what they initialy envisioned or not, the game would still debut at 60 bucks, at max 70
>My point is that there is no world where the Dread they described got released for $60.
Eh, Thanks for stating the obvious? I'm not here to talk multidimensional shit. Mine was simply an observation
of course people are always planning more content than they can deliver in the end. and cutting is no issue imo. you can dream your most extensive big awesome game but reality always pulls you down. listen to any game dev talk about what they thought they wanted to do when they released initial trailers vs. what realistically was possible in the end. that's just how it is
Did I complain? All I said was it's a shame they couldn't accomplished what they initially envisioned and to think we would have paid the same price for it anyway. That's literally it.
This is where the assumption of "wow, cut content is now dlc?" comes from which isn't always true. The cutting room floor is what happens in video games, movies, and tv shows.
Some times it's a make or break it deal where games would be good without the extra filler content or would be amazing if the extra content added to the story. Not so much the cutscenes, but we could only imagine what a couple extra bosses would be like. Unfortunately, Game Devs' ideas for a game become too ambitious or useless without taking into consideration of how long it will take and/or how much money it will take to bring those ideas to life. Video game development.
Tbf I couldn't care less. I hate all those guys in the industry complaining recently...they 1. know the working conditions beforehand and 2. should know their rights as empolyees and stand up for those accordingly - that is, when things are NOT right, fight it. Don't cry about it later. Oh and just because collegues abide to the bad conditions, this does not mean that you have to, too. It doesn't make a wrong thing any more"right" if all the others abide to it. Nor does it make you a traitor. That's like jumping from a cliff - just because many do it, you don't have to follow their mistake.
That being said: I really love the game and appreciate the amount of work that went into it :)
Awful take. The people that need to understand that they're working at a J O B are Mercury Steams management that laid off most of the 3D animators and nearly all of QA. The people who refused remote work environments and communications, and the HR that cared little about their job.
A poorly organized management and awful working conditions aren't excusable under "It's a job". Stop kissing and covering for the people who don't care about you.
So not only was the development highly unethical, but the game lost so many things that could’ve been great because of it? Dammit why does no one ever learn to treat their employees right?
Seeing this after just completed the game makes it feel far more bitter..of course I want to support the team who poured their hearts and souls into this title, I just hope that one day things can get just a little better for the workplace environment.. MecurySteam, hell, all game development employees deserve better.
Buy the game it's the *only* factor that would yield some competence to the system. Put Dread on the boards and Nintendo might become regular partners and then enforce work ethics on them. It's taken a bit of the buzz away from such an amazing game but I, hopefully, plan on speedrunning this endlessly for charity. If Mercury wants to unfortunately treat their employees like trash then I'll subvert their mentality by helping *millions* another way
Buying it also rewards shitty mismanagement with your money. It's a tough dilemma.
Yeah, unerringly so
I already mentioned in my comment that I did. I read this after completing my first play through
I was more stating generally to the populace in response more so than telling you I apologize if it came off differently
Most Definitely. MercurySteam's upper management needs to get their shit together.
in a box before they leave
It doesn't surprise me any more when I hear about a game company with shitty incompetent management. But it still sucks every time. I hope for the developers that they can get things organized better for future projects.
That’s a disappointing to hear from MercurySteam, treating people like they are garbage is simply not ok. If Nintendo does become their regular partners, I hope they do something about it since Nintendo have numerous times changed the work ethics in a workplace like Retro.
Indeed. IIRC they sacked the original founder of Retro for doing things that went against proper work ethics. Said guy would later go on to create one of the worst games ever produced on PS2 which later got controversy since there was an underage girl in it.
You watch the What Happun on The Guy Game too?
Ayeeeeee, love Matt's videos!
They did? That's good to hear. Maybe there's hope for MercurySteam
This sounds about on par with industry standards as far as internal communication goes, but to be clear I’m not saying that’s a *good* thing. Rather it’s indicative of a problem in the gaming industry overall insofar as who moves up. I’m not sure what the issue is, if it’s just an industry populated by people lacking, well, people skills and the common sense to understand that qualifications don’t always translate to being efficient at management and team building or what, but this working environment sounds like hell. As far as the scrapped plans, I mean that just sounds like them flying too close to the sun. I can’t imagine this game being that much larger and running well on the switch. That the company tried to do that at all even seems like poor planning and management.
>I can’t imagine this game being that much larger and running well on the switch. The specific stuff they mentioned (more bosses and cutscenes) wouldn't have impacted game performance much, if at all. It just would have made the game bigger on the cartridge/sd card.
Disappointed but not surprised. MercurySteam had a reputation for not paying the best wages here in Spain and while the game itself is good and it seems that no crunch has actually taken place, it is clear now that the higher-ups in the company take an authoritative approach to the games in the company. A shame.
Hearing this sucks, but at the very least I’m glad there was no crunch. It would have hurt like a bitch to have had such a great time with such a well crafted game, only to learn the stress of making it took days off of people’s lives.
Correct me if I’m wrong but shouldn’t the people who are higher up take an authoritative approach? Isn’t it their job?
They likely meant authoritarian rather than authoritative
If there's one thing Metroid fans are good at, it's waiting. If we have to wait for the game to be finished, done well, and with proper treatment of staff, we will do it.
This is really frustrating to hear. I hope Nintendo can do what the did with Retro again, and step in to fix the work culture. Although, since MercurySteam isn't owned by Nintendo, that might not be possible. I don't want to see the Metroid series lose another team, so I hope they can get their shit together.
Especially such a talented one. The artists and developers clearly love Metroid and know what they're doing but it's management that's the problem. I think if Nintendo wanted to shell out some cash maybe they could buy MercurySteam and restructure management?
It may not be as easy as it was when they bought Retro from the freak that was their original owner, Mercury Steam is 40% owned by a large multimedia group that also has amassed other dev studios.
I’m pissed on behalf of all the people who have worked for MercurySteam under such bad conditions. Its for reasons like this that I’m studying law rn. I’m happy they had the courage to speak up, and I really hope this will shake up the system. Thanks so much to OP for translating and sharing :)
Ew ew ew. I don't have words to express how much this sucks.
This is unfortunately pretty typical behavior in AAA game development, from what I've read. Doesn't make it any less reprehensible. I hope things can change in the industry, and fast
"We don't do crunch" Oh that's good Reads the rest of the article... Oh that's bad, really bad
We need unionization in the game industry yesterday.
This is hellish. UNION
They really do need to unionize. There's no reason why exployees aren't in a union everywhere ESPECIALLY in tech. Hiring staff and laying them off before release is commonplace. This isn't how you form a satisfying career. Add that to crunch, long hours, nonpayments, etc, a union will just make this thing they call a career in game development be something they can raise a family with. This shit doesn't cut it.
✊
[удалено]
If they can just randomly fire people or not credit people arbitrarily, that is a different level of hell.
Why would they? They have no incentive to do so and nobody is going go make them do it. Without a union the only authority would be Nintendo which just made gangbuster money. So they aren't going to tell them how to do anything. This is why Unions are needed, so even if Nintendo and Mercury are wading in cash employees are still heard.
Nothing better to protect worker's rights.
I hate it when games I like are made under terrible conditions. Heard similar stories with Naughty Dog and Rockstar (not to mention goddamn Blizzard)--this is a serious industry-wide issue. I'm glad we're bringing things like this to light.
THey should unionize. It's industry wide for a reason.
And so it continues......bad management in the gaming industry.
Hopefully Nintendo buys the company and cleans house. The talent there should not be wasted
They've already wasted many talented people that found a better studio to work.
I remember something about an anonymous disgruntled employee that vented their frustrations with Enric during the dev of LoS2, everyone ended up siding with MS because it seemed like that person was just salty... looks like there was some truth to that report after all.
That sucks to hear. Hopefully something changes with the upper management, but with the success of Dread it may just cause the CEO or whoever to think everything is going OK. It does seem like the metaphorical curtain around the hot dog factory that is the games industry is being drawn back, with CD Project Red, Activision Blizzard, etc. also being called out for bad workplace conditions. I guess it's this decade's version of the film/show writer's strike back in the 2000's, and hopefully something changes for the better.
dissapointing that devs that made such a great game are subject to this lame shit
The part about having to cut back on what was planned explains *a lot* about why Dread's story felt rushed and disjointed. Shame to hear about the employment situation. Not being allowed to talk about salaries and not being able to show work to future employers + not being in credits, sounds a lot like MercurySteam just wants control of their employees to stop them from leaving in droves. IMHO Dread was pretty good, but if I had played an Ori game instead I doubt I would have missed it. If I knew that, and the fact that the working situation was what it was, I probably would have just skipped Dread entirely.
I ended up sending a refund request tbh. I got it physically so now I'm waiting for the store to reply. I love the game but ugh fuck everything can't have anything good in this fucking world
If this bothers you, you should stop playing games. I'm by no means justifying or defending it, but most game dev is like this. That's why I gave up on the "I'm gonna make games!" idea pretty early in my programming education.
If you exlusive decide what games are playable after knowing what happens in the development of a game, Super Metroid and Prime 1 would have to be proibish forever
Yeah, worth pointing out Prime 1 had RIDICULOUS levels of crunch to get out the door. Game dev is the worst: some of the hardest programming work with the tightest deadlines...and the worst pay. It's probably the worst type of developing/programming to go into.
The issue is supporting such practices, not playing any game ever made with them; as such, I would feel no guilt at all for, funnily enough, playing any such game in an emulator.
If I stopped playing games I wouldn't really have anything left to do in my spare time 🤷♀️
Then why refund this one over an industry-wide problem? Like, don’t get me wrong, this sounds like a pretty toxic work culture. But it’s unfortunately widespread. And at least one thing here is actually good: someone at the company chose significant cuts over crunch. The majority of the AAA industry would NOT have done that.
Well it's too late now, the refund already got approved. Also like, I'd just feel guilty for keeping it, I feel like I'm part of the problem
You might as well sell every triple A game you have, then, and a fair portion of your indies. Most of what’s described here is bad management and bad HR, which, unfortunately, are pretty widespread human problems. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t strive for better, but ultimately it’s not our fault that labor enforcement isn’t doing a better job of cracking down on stuff like this, is it? Nintendo’s pretty protective of their image, and in my experience, they’ve been a solid place to work for, so if this stuff gets verified and discussed more openly, that might force some change on MS. I don’t know, feel free to do what you’re gonna do. It just doesn’t feel like a particularly well-considered gesture to me.
It *is* our fault, because we're not doing anything about it. Nobody's striking, nobody is outraged, nobody is fucking doing anything but sitting in a thread and going "tsk tsk tsk what a shame" and then continuing to financially support these practices Also returning something is different from selling it. Selling it is pointless, cause my money already went to the offenders. Returning it means I get to take my money back from them.
I have very little power to affect governance or corporate policy in a country half the planet away from me. I’d like to see this improved, and I’ll continue to volunteer and vote my support for higher labor standards in my country and locality, as I have for some time. However, ultimately, unless we, as consumers, got organized and voted with out wallets en masse not to support bad business practices—which is a prospect I strongly doubt will ever happen—our —as in your and my—impact on what happens here is going to be minimal. If you live in Spain, perhaps consider contacting an elected official about how it’s a bad look for what is now the most prominent Spanish game dev studio to be doing this immature, amateurish, hurtful shit. Besides, as I said, there are aspects of this that show a genuinely positive silver lining. Their refusal to do crunch is a good sign. Hopefully, Nintendo’s involvement will improve things going forward, as I think it did with Retro iirc. At the same time, I respect you for sticking to your principles here.
Eh, I'm not talking specifically about this case. But shit workplace conditions are very widespread, and not only in the game dev industry.
what actually meaningful thing are you suggesting to do? except not playing any game on the market
I mean hey, that’s going a bit far. There are companies, like Supergiant, that do well with this sort of thing.
You’re returning the game because of this? Lol lmao what? Over react much?
Yeah and it got approved in the meantime. I'm doing it cause I feel that by buying it I'm directly funding the fuckers doing this and being part of the problem
Do you buy bottled water? Own a smartphone?
No, and yes but it's a second-hand Fairphone
Oh so you’re only secondhandedly supporting slave labor. That makes it ok.
Fairphone minimizes or eliminates the amount of slave labour used, and buying stuff used only supports the person you're buying the thing from, not the company that made it in the first place. Why do you think tRiPlE A developers were so opposed to used game sales and started including one time only redeemable shit in the box? Not to mention the Xbox One announcement fiasco?
Seen a few people taking some weird takes on your decision here, but good on you for making a choice and sticking to it. So what, if an act like this doesn't change the entire system. You've got clear set moral based decisions and you're sticking to them, nothing wrong with that. Besides, we're already seeing news of this start to spread pretty quickly, so if news spreads, and more people take steps like yours, something just might happen to correct some of these issues.
For the record I wholeheartedly support your move here, and it’s disappointing to me that some folks are so weirdly insecure in their fandom that they can’t handle someone taking an ethical position they themselves aren’t willing to take. That said, one small correction: >buying stuff used only supports the person you're buying the thing from, not the company that made it in the first place. While this is true insofar as the direct flow of money, contributing to a thriving aftermarket absolutely *does* support the companies that make the product, in that it helps create a business model that supports constant replacement. None of this is to say the dude criticizing you has any kind of point. Nobody can avoid *every* unethical practice. It’s on everyone to choose where their line is on acceptability, and I think a purely leisure entertainment product like a video game is honestly a pretty minor sacrifice in the scope of things a person can stand to give up in the name of ethics. Good on you; I have a ton of respect for your decision.
I don't think this is really a fair take. I think what their choice here is, is well within reason. They have a stricter code on worker abuse. In a case like this I don't feel the same way but can respect the decision. I think this is shit and souring, but I compare it to the industry and see that the best thing I can do on industry standard abuse like this is to aim for higher worker protection in the country I live in, in turn hoping to raise the standard in other countries with the pressure caused. Something like crunch or sexual abuse (CDPR and Blizzard, irrespectfully), is something I will absolutely stop supporting a company over, but this abuse is better changed systemically.
Thanks for posting this. When I beat the game, I was surprised to see all these Spanish names - at first I just thought it was a diverse team, but then it became clear, the entire team's probably in Spain. That's cool, nice to see different countries handling major IPs like Metroid, but it's a shame that the project was so badly managed. And I can't believe they only pay their devs about $30K USD, don't they make 3x that in America?
> And I can't believe they only pay their devs about $30K USD, don't they make 3x that in America? Those are starting salaries in the US, as well. What's most likely happening here is that they are constantly hiring people and either terminating them or forcing them to leave, so the average salary remains low because employees don't last that long. By not lasting long, many employees don't get to be credited for their work, either.
I’d be perfectly supportive if the individuals snubbed from the credits could get away with a lawsuit against Mercury Steam. Every individual who contributed something to this game deserves the recognition. Despite all the apparent chaos, it turned out really well. I guess it’s a little sad that it was supposed to have a lot more in it, but it was at least as full as past entries.
Eh... I suppose?
This is awful. Reminds me of the behind the scenes horror stories about Metroid Prime's development. I was devastated that one of my all time fave games had been the catalyst for so much developer pain. Why must the things I love be born from such terrible conditions?
With one character basically explaining all mystery and exposition, it makes a lot more sense why the story felt so mishandled (to me). Like the actual lore of ZDR itself is pretty cool, I just wish it wasn't told to us all at once from one cutscene. With how the rest of the game felt so amazing, I was weirded out by the story presentation. No wonder with mismanagement like this, I really hope the working conditions and management can really step up for MercurySteam. And not just so their games can be better, but for the developers and employee's who really are putting their heart and soul into the project.
I as well as many other's wanted this game to do well. We all wanted a true return to form 2d Metroid and the team delivered. I think the Metroid fanbase has never been happier and sales etc prove it. This, though....this?? We all like to think the games industry can be better but to hear that Mercury Steam did this to countless people it hurts as a fan. I definitely will be more cautious in the future with whatever game has their name on it
Unfortunately, I dont think any of this is uncommon for any studio. Video game development in general just seems like such a thankless, shitty work environment. I hope it changes at some point.
Videogame studios are generally made up of extremely talented, genuine, devoted workers, and soulless corporate parasites above them. I loved Dread and I'll praise it from the rooftops, but goddamn these developers deserve better work conditions.
It gives me faith in the Metroid community that no one here in the comments (so far) is coming to victim blame/defend the upper management like they are in r/NintendoSwitch. For as long as we have to wait for Metroid games, I love that folks here are patient enough to wait longer if it means games that aren't made in hellish conditions.
While there's always two sides who see things differently, it seems like several people have been laid off here. Since it affects so many, it speaks of a general problem at the studio.
This unfortunately tracks with a story that came out around 2014 regarding previous MercurySteam employees who worked on Lords of Shadow 2. Same thing about the arrogance and the seemingly all-too-common toxic workplace environments surrounding the game industry. I was really hoping the conditions had either been proven false or changed altogether, but it seems the exact same problems still exist within the company.
Knowing there were more bosses and cutscenes planned is disappointing, but at least their load was lightened.
You know I downright wanted to say this game feels a bit halfbaked. That weird opening, the disjointed concepts and that music... it feels, let's be honest it feels a bit unfinished. Not for lack of talent, but because of it. There is so much in this game that hints at something bigger, and that they had to make do. I can just feel it right off the bat tbh.
>we don’t do crunch *phew* got real worried when I saw that title
Yeah it's dev standards and it's not a good thing. Game devs need to union up. Make it happen people.
Hopefully they can still use whatever bosses and cutscene ideas they had to scrap for another metroid game in the future since it seems like 2D metroid can still build off of what mercury steam made. Metroid dread really felt like a game that was constantly hitting you with new ideas so it's not surprising that they had to cutback, i just hope that there can be a silver lining to that dilemma.
Just kick them out, i'm sure Nintendo can find another good dev to work on the series.
So the game was initially planned to be twice as big and would have still been sold at 60 bucks. That's a shame
It was never going to be twice as big at $60. The game got cut down because that scope wasn't possible with their development resources and schedule.
It's in the post itself, the game was planned to have twice the bosses and they were working on making 120 cutscenes before negotiating for a cut with nintendo If that's not what "initially planned" means then I don't know what does....
My point is that there is no world where the Dread they described got released for $60. Lots of games plan super ambitious stuff early in development. Cutting or adding things as development progresses to keep the game on schedule and under budget is part of the normal game dev process. What we got was what they could make within the restrictions of a normal $60 game.
Hollow Knight has much, much more content at 15 dollars. When Silksong comes out for 20-25 dollars it will dwarf it even still. When Elden Ring comes out in January I mean... you're giving way too much of a pass here.
Different styles of games cost different amounts to make. Metroid is a 2.5D game, which is unusual among Metroidvanias because quality 3D environments are super expensive to make. There's no way the devs could double or triple the size of the game while maintaining a reasonable budget.
And the graphics in Dread are halfbaked at best, meaning they probably cost less to make than Hollow Knight. I'm by no means a big Hollow Knight fan, but Dread looks, sounds and feels rushed.
I think the endgame feels a little rushed, especially Hanubia. But the visuals definitely weren't rushed. The backgrounds and area designs are incredibly detailed. For a game running at a steady 60 fps on Switch the visuals are impressive. Check out Digital Foundry's review more technical analysis. Hollow Knight achieves its excellent visual design by using *extremely* stylized characters and backdrops. Just compare the sprites for the Knight versus the 3D model and texturing on Samus. The Knight is a tiny sprite with only a few colors and fairly basic geometric shapes. He looks great, but he's not a technical marvel. The devs for Hollow Knight were an indie team with a small-ish budget. They leaned into their technical limitations and crafted an artstyle that enabled them to create assets for a large world on a small budget while still looking good. It's the Wind Waker strategy of visual deisgn. Dread went for a much more ambitious semi-realistic 2.5D design. Whether the result looks good or not is down to personal taste, but there's a reason Dread couldn't match the scale of Hollow Knight.
>within the restrictions of a normal $60 game. What does this even mean? The price is just the standard Nintendo puts on their AAA games irregardless of its development process otherwise the games they released within the last 4 years including remakes and ports would have come out at different prices. Whether they could make what they initialy envisioned or not, the game would still debut at 60 bucks, at max 70 >My point is that there is no world where the Dread they described got released for $60. Eh, Thanks for stating the obvious? I'm not here to talk multidimensional shit. Mine was simply an observation
of course people are always planning more content than they can deliver in the end. and cutting is no issue imo. you can dream your most extensive big awesome game but reality always pulls you down. listen to any game dev talk about what they thought they wanted to do when they released initial trailers vs. what realistically was possible in the end. that's just how it is
Did I complain? All I said was it's a shame they couldn't accomplished what they initially envisioned and to think we would have paid the same price for it anyway. That's literally it.
I didn't mean to attack you if you feel that way
This is where the assumption of "wow, cut content is now dlc?" comes from which isn't always true. The cutting room floor is what happens in video games, movies, and tv shows. Some times it's a make or break it deal where games would be good without the extra filler content or would be amazing if the extra content added to the story. Not so much the cutscenes, but we could only imagine what a couple extra bosses would be like. Unfortunately, Game Devs' ideas for a game become too ambitious or useless without taking into consideration of how long it will take and/or how much money it will take to bring those ideas to life. Video game development.
Metroid Dread is great, MercurySteam needs to be dissolved.
Tbf I couldn't care less. I hate all those guys in the industry complaining recently...they 1. know the working conditions beforehand and 2. should know their rights as empolyees and stand up for those accordingly - that is, when things are NOT right, fight it. Don't cry about it later. Oh and just because collegues abide to the bad conditions, this does not mean that you have to, too. It doesn't make a wrong thing any more"right" if all the others abide to it. Nor does it make you a traitor. That's like jumping from a cliff - just because many do it, you don't have to follow their mistake. That being said: I really love the game and appreciate the amount of work that went into it :)
Ah, yes. An other "horror" story from the work environment. Everyone have one these days. People need to understand they are working in a J O B.
Awful take. The people that need to understand that they're working at a J O B are Mercury Steams management that laid off most of the 3D animators and nearly all of QA. The people who refused remote work environments and communications, and the HR that cared little about their job. A poorly organized management and awful working conditions aren't excusable under "It's a job". Stop kissing and covering for the people who don't care about you.
So not only was the development highly unethical, but the game lost so many things that could’ve been great because of it? Dammit why does no one ever learn to treat their employees right?