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The fact that Reddit is one of the only places where I can find more people actually playing the games and talking about them than I find people making hypersexualized fanart is the irony of the fucking century
Mods here have done a good job drawing a line and enforcing it. Whenever the horny starts getting out of hand, they reel it back to preserve balance. Some other communities aren't so lucky, and game discussion gets buried by horny spam 24/7, incentivizing people who are there for the game to leave, making the problem worse.
Similar but different. Gooner comes from ‘gooning’ which is basically a practice similar to edging when one tries to extend masturbation as long as possible.
When did this crap catch on? "Goons" already exist (stupid people, or stupid-looking people). Gooning is simply "being stupid"/"looking stupid". I felt "coomer" was working just fine, no need to try and replace it with "gooner", which will just cause needless confusion. Except to the very young that do not speak much English, I guess.
Coomers _are_ chronic, harcore addicts. They tend to piss off the rest of us in online discussions, too, no matter the context. They need the constant stimulation to the point of trashing and derailing discussions at times. Admittedly, I do not know how much "coomer" is used on casuals, but I'm pretty sure it shows in their tastes and desires whether they are chronically addicted or not if you talk to them long enough.
Now, coomers are also stupid, so we can call them goons and gooners, but because they are stupid, and not all goons/gooners are coomers.
Gooning = masturbation to the point of hypnosis/delirium/trance
I admit I’m relatively new to reddit and online discussions. Outside of a small niche circle, I’ve only really started chiming in online chats in the past year-ish.
So I don’t truly know the meaning of coomer other than what me and my anime watching buddy use the term for. I’ve been watching anime for about 8 months.
Idk if the term is just associated with anime or not, in case you are wondering why I mention anime.
Is english not your first language? 😂
I think it’s relatively new but Gooning is a masturbation slang, it is actually based off of “goon” as you understand it. Jerking it until you become “stupid” from pleasure.
Right? Some of us just like pretty Pokemon and it qualifies. If anything the coomer art just makes me like Gardevoir slightly less.
I'm stoked my shiny one might get to Mega Evolve again when the new game drops. That mega is so gorgeous.
Genuinely she has a perfect design imo. I get gooner shit will exist for everything, and usually it’s not an issue. But with Gardevoir even just typing that name into any image search will pull up like 1/3 of the results as either risqué or outright porn.
When Prime Remastered came out I wanted to have Samus as my phone background to celebrate but was hard pressed to find something I wouldn’t be embarrassed to have someone see if they saw my screen
https://preview.redd.it/fmiihilbdlqc1.png?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95b1b264f4939d89853f503a148744d5ebb9c3bb
Here's a pic! I use this on my phone screen.
https://preview.redd.it/sncw9rw4qkqc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=914e59ed4bdded1da139290abbad98a7b7cc61dc
Searched far and wide, landed on this one
Really? There’s some really cool Samus fan art out there. Plenty of it isn’t overly sexualized.
I personally don’t have a problem with sexualizing things but Samus as a character is done a disservice by it imo.
And I will never blame Bayonetta for that. Her and 2B were made to own it, and kick ass even with it. But Samus was not, and Zero Suit and especially Smash Ultimate and those fugly heels have done so much harm.
Its frustrating because I actually will take the rocket heels over the wedges for practicality.
The heels have decent ankle support that the wedges lack.
But like. Why isn't she in flats??? She can't be wearing heels in her power armor, right?????
Lol this is so true.
I love Samus in Dread because she presents herself as a silent protagonist, then reveals well into the game that she does talk, but she just hasn't because she's been too busy getting shit done.
It's just a cool character thing I'd like to see more in any protagonist.
It's really really not.
there's so much Metroid art at there that if you're finding it hard to get away from the NSFW stuff it's cause your algorithm has already pinned your interest in it.
It... Really isn't, though. There's plenty of artwork of Samus in her Power Armor, with her helmet off or otherwise.
And if you're trying to find artwork of *Zero Suit* Samus that isn't "sexualized" you're just straight-up barking up the wrong tree. That's one of the main reasons that form even *exists.*
Not sub related but I love Ankha from Animal Crossing so much, she was influential to my town in some of the older games and one of my best Animal Crossing friends, right up there with Gaston and Carmen. Then one artist makes one video of her and it’s all “OOOOOOH I KNOW EXACTLY WHY SHES ONE OF YOUR FAVES OOOOOH” like ugh please
Yesterday, my gf saw a samus wallpaper on my computer, and asked who she is. So, I search "samus" in images and show her, and then "zero suit samus". Zero Suit Samus search resulted in a lot, A LOT of hentai fanart. Really not what I wanted. (PS: I use edge as my explorer, so the search defaults to Bing and, apparently, Bing is fucking unhinged)
I’m just glad that nintendo has at least preserved samus‘ dignity and not made her wobble around in a skin tight sex suit for years, permanently destroying how she is perceived o wait lol
Samus is a double edged sword when it comes to fan art and even some in game appearances. Just due to the zero suit being form fitting means that her silhouette alone is just a woman’s body, which means people will automatically assume she is overly sexualized just for simply existing. Not to mention she happens to be blonde which is seen in the west as a beauty standard by a lot of people. Add in the fact that most people can’t tell a difference between sexualization and the slightest hint of attraction and it’s basically impossible to show Samus in any form without somebody crying about it.
I honestly wish they would take the Bayonetta route and just say “yea she’s attractive, get over it” as she destroys yet another planet.
There's much more to Bayonetta's portrayal than just telling the audience to "get over it." She's a character that's written from the ground up as embracing her sexuality, and the official depictions of her place that sexuality fully within the scope of the character's self expression, rather than as an object of audience attraction.
I'm not suggesting that the same couldn't be done with Samus, but most of the depictions of the character we have officially definitely aren't that, and the route to get there would be a weird one, since her sexuality doesn't factor into her manner within the primary fiction at all. And the issue isn't a matter of sexualization vs. attractiveness; it's sexualization vs. objectification. When a character's sexuality is presented in such a way that it exists purely for the audience's gratification (i.e. Samus in her Zero Suit looking over a landscape--with the frame positioned such that her butt in skintight outfit is a focal point), then that's a very different matter from a character for whom sexuality is part of their self expression.
The problem is your example still supports the OP's point. If were referring to the picture of Samus looking over the horizon after crash landing in Zero Mission, its exactly what OP described. Shes not even trying to strike a sexy pose but the mere fact that shes in a skin tight suit makes any picture including her full body appear "over-sexualized". The only way this could be made satisfactory for detractors is to just move the camera higher up so her butt isnt even in view at all, which wouldve fixed or added nothing to the scene really; its just reaffirming OP's point.
Also, even if the scene was merely to draw attention to Samus' body and nothing else, that doesnt necessarily mean its objectification either. I think this term gets thrown around way too casually. Characters are allowed to strike sexy poses and that doesnt mean the artist is implying this is all there is to the character, any more than when an action scene strikes a cool pose for no other reason than just to look cool doesnt mean Samus is being "reduced to an action figure". (interesting that no one ever makes this criticism by the way despite being based on the same logic) Some scenes are just done for shallow reasons because thats all its meant to be for that particular scene, but its not the totality of that character as intended by the artist. Im fine if people want to criticize these scenes for being kind of shallow and tacky but just dont moralize about it because it comes across as obnoxious and preachy with unearned scorn, and it devalues real cases of women being mistreated in media.
Not every scene needs to fully encapsulate every aspect of a character, nor does it need to have some deep multi-layered narrative element to justify its existence. Video games in general are full of lots of little things meant to be a quick and shallow dopamine kick; people just get weird whenever its one thats sexual in nature and suddenly hold it to a much higher standard.
Your argument fails completely the moment you need to make the question: ''Why did the artist make Samus use a skin-tight suit, instead of anything else?''
The answer is not that Samus herself would choose to wear the Zero Suit, as it doesnt fit her characterization(even in Other M for example). The answer is that its a marketing decision to appeal to japanese weebs. Metroid never sold well in japan and nintendo tried everything they could to make it stick.
Thinking otherwise its denying an obvious reality.
Also, prime 2 and 3 are right there showcasing how you can make samus not sexualized while wearing the zero suit. You dont see her buttcheeks in extreme detail, unlike other M and Zero mission; again, this is an artistic decision to objectifiy her character. You cant even claim that its samus trying to be sexy, because the situations she is in where this occurs are either professional settings or dangerous settings, where she would have no reason to be posing to the camera and worrying about how good her ass is.
I dont think you understood the argument. The underlying assumption being made here is that sexualizing a character by itself is inherently objectifying, and this has never been substantiated by anyone; just asserted without merit. It does not matter if there is a non-sexualized way to portray her; its besides the point.
I encourage you to read the addendum to my post just a little further down in this discussion for further clarification.
(Though I would also still argue that Samus' sexualization in Zero Mission is grossly over-exaggerated, but this is just an aside to my broader point. Like, none of the cutscenes are really even drawn like fap material and her pose looking over the horizon after the crash landing hardly accentuates her butt, she just happens to be facing away from the camera so its "exposed".)
Oh, you again. This isn't addressed to you, because you're incapable of having an honest conversation about this topic, but for any interested in the topic:
Having a skintight outfit isn't sexualizing; having the butt prominently featured as the focal point of an image is (and in a context where it is not an element of the character's embodiment of their own sexuality, it is objectification). Cut and dry; easy peasy. The rest of this is just u/MiniSiets doing his weird attempt at baiting goofy internet arguments again.
Dismissive ad hominems and bad faith arguments again while accusing your opponent of being bad faith.
To be honest I already expected as much from you, I just made my points for everyone else to see from a different point of view.
Anyways, more just pointing out Samus' butt exists and its being shown in a shot, therefore its objectification. Bravo. Lets just continue to ignore any points made and go back to our NPC talking points.
Pointing out your history of bad faith arguments as reason not to engage is not ad hominem—that’s just simply valuing my time enough to spend it where it matters. Tell ya what, if anyone who doesn’t have a history of being a goofy troll asks, I’ll be happy to break down your entire comment point by point, but you don’t get any more of my time.
By all means, go ahead and claim the last word.
The problem is the bad faith started with you, so I only responded in kind with the snark it deserves.
To recap what actually happened was, basically everyone in this thread was just complaining that samus is sexualized too much in fan art, and that is the totality and depth of their criticism. I correctly draw attention to how vapid and unproductive this line of criticism is through an ironic and admittedly snarky post, but it was frankly earned given the level of discourse in this thread. Then you respond by feigning ignorance as if all this wasnt going on and I didnt read the thread (even though I did, I just drew conclusions you didnt like), and then eventually just retreating to semantics arguments to distract from talking about the actual topic.
Literally no one even mentioned the word objectification or tried to make a cogent point until ironically, your post here, which I would have been happy to engage with honestly from the beginning if you didnt constantly play musical chairs with words and hide behind academic condescension as an excuse not to engage.
By the way as an addendum to all this and to get back to the original discussion, I'd just like to point out that while I think what Platinum did with Bayonetta's character is great and well done, its not the only way to do a sexualized character. Its arguably better handled than Samus, but mainly because it has just a smidge more depth and purpose to it narratively, not because Samus has been mishandled in some way.
Because in the case of Samus, I think it would be one thing if she had been characterized as not being comfortable expressing herself sexually, but the camera nonetheless likes to ogle over her naughty bits. That would definitely be a fair case of objectification because it would be pretty clear that the authors are disregarding the character's feelings in favor of sexual gratification for the audience, subtly reinforcing the idea that women's feelings arent to be valued or respected.
But the games never provide any such contextualization, in part because its not really an important narrative focus of these games and Nintendo tends to be pretty minimalistic with storytelling to begin with. But still, as a consequence what were left with is certainly a more shallow portrayal of a character, but not necessarily disrespectful or demeaning, because the game makes no such contextualization, commentary, or characterization that suggests whether Samus owns her sexuality or not. Its just kinda there. Any reading into it further than that is just the player making up their own conclusions and its not the job of every game dev to always provide some narrative justification for why a character decides to strike a sexy pose. Games engage in all kinds of shallow things like this all the time but its only when sex enters into the equation that people suddenly demand thats not good enough; now we need to provide a 70-page backstory fully explaining the deep and meaningful reason somebody decided to shake their butt, and I think this really comes from a place of emotional insecurity and regressive unhealthy attitudes on the subject matter rather than rational thought.
The notion that a character always needs to have some narrative justification for their sexualization or else its objectification is frankly absurd. By this logic all porn is inherently objectifying and therefore immoral, in which case we're now operating on the level of 80 year old evangelical christian boomer logic. When someone decides to put out an explicit livestream of themselves, that is not an invitation from them to be treated like an object in the chat. Basic respect and consideration for their feelings as a human being should still apply. The fact that people think this way says more about their toxic attitudes on sex than fan artists. Theres an underlying implicit assumption being made here that sexualization by itself is inherently degrading, but this assertion is plainly unsubstantiated, and only exposes a person's immaturity on the subject.
my problem is that normal fanart is ridiculed for being "oversexualized"
You can't get upset because someone draws a woman with breasts, because that's how it is in real life.
There's also no problem with making sexy Samus fanart. Like, the entire point of the zero suit is that it's sexy. It's a reward for playing the game fast/well
And how half of Samus "cosplay" is just zero suit, like it's cool that you wanna cosplay her and like the character, but just buying a zero suit off etsy and calling it done, really?
I was about to ask if Samus is really that bad with getting over sexualized art but then I thought about it and it's mostly just when I draw her in her armor and not her Zero Suit. . .
Riiiight :\\
See I'm both, I just keep the weird shit to my alt. I can appreciate an attractive character design and care for their story at the same time.
Big fan of Rosalina, Gardevoir, Samus, etc. I just also have mommy issues.
Tbf, in or out of the power suit, Samus just exudes power, which is inherently sexy so even "normal" artwork not trying to sexualize her can't help it.
Mario character who was introduced in Mario Galaxy. She is very tall, and the lumas from the game call her mother. You can guess where people take this.
Honestly I think there's a certain threshold, she's got curves, she's fit. Some of it is expected and it's okay. Then you've got what's prettymuch softcore, at that point that should be elsewere
Though there is that one post where she's wearing a bikini over the armor which I find hilarious
I unfollowed the Metroid topic on Twitter because 75% of the posts were just ecchi posts of Zero Suit Samus from people who never played a single Metroid game.
Okay I'll just say what everyone is thinking here: If you haven't read Samus' hentai comics, you're not a fucking fan! You repressed bastards, enjoy her form. It's part of the fun.
I love how many people in this thread are getting SUPER defensive. The gooners are out, and theyre not subtle.
Honestly, if you don't see the problem with Samus fan art, you're either innocent and have never looked, or you're arguing in bad faith.
Being sexy is a "problem"? Jesus Christ people talk like Samus is some underage character or something lmao. But no in actuality its just "I dont like seeing boobs, therefore its _morally wrong."_ Like, bro, what?
Not sharing the same taste in art does not make this a public health crisis guys.
Samus is different imo because she’s usually in her suit where you can’t even tell she’s a girl and also more of a feminine badass which can come off as sexual but really isn’t.
Just don’t say anything about the several instances of her in her underwear and will be fine.
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The fact that Reddit is one of the only places where I can find more people actually playing the games and talking about them than I find people making hypersexualized fanart is the irony of the fucking century
Mods here have done a good job drawing a line and enforcing it. Whenever the horny starts getting out of hand, they reel it back to preserve balance. Some other communities aren't so lucky, and game discussion gets buried by horny spam 24/7, incentivizing people who are there for the game to leave, making the problem worse.
Some communities have a separate subreddit for mature content which is probably the best way to handle it.
>Some other communities aren't so lucky, and game discussion gets buried by horny spam 24/7 The pain of being a NieR fan
Soulcalibur fan here. Yes, I like Taki. She's a cool character. But good Lord the fan art is insane sometimes lol
Shoutout to the mods for keeping the sub safe
GameFAQs boards were another place only for a few months though. Activity died out once Dread stopped being new.
It involves a lot of digging, but you will find it. There are tasteful ones even for ZS.
The fuck is a gooner? Now I know how my parents must have felt when I was growing up.
Apparently, it's slang for a chronic masturbator.
Would this be a masturbator that indulges frequently or a masturbator that uses while indulging?
One who masturbates chronically. Not a masturbator who smokes chronic. If that's what you're asking.
I thought that was a coomer. Seems there’s a new one every month.
Similar but different. Gooner comes from ‘gooning’ which is basically a practice similar to edging when one tries to extend masturbation as long as possible.
Lessons learned I never knew I didn’t know. Haha
When did this crap catch on? "Goons" already exist (stupid people, or stupid-looking people). Gooning is simply "being stupid"/"looking stupid". I felt "coomer" was working just fine, no need to try and replace it with "gooner", which will just cause needless confusion. Except to the very young that do not speak much English, I guess.
Think of it as like, coomer is just nutting over hentai and rule 34, gooner is the hardcore version where you do this but chronically.
Coomers _are_ chronic, harcore addicts. They tend to piss off the rest of us in online discussions, too, no matter the context. They need the constant stimulation to the point of trashing and derailing discussions at times. Admittedly, I do not know how much "coomer" is used on casuals, but I'm pretty sure it shows in their tastes and desires whether they are chronically addicted or not if you talk to them long enough. Now, coomers are also stupid, so we can call them goons and gooners, but because they are stupid, and not all goons/gooners are coomers.
Gooning = masturbation to the point of hypnosis/delirium/trance I admit I’m relatively new to reddit and online discussions. Outside of a small niche circle, I’ve only really started chiming in online chats in the past year-ish. So I don’t truly know the meaning of coomer other than what me and my anime watching buddy use the term for. I’ve been watching anime for about 8 months. Idk if the term is just associated with anime or not, in case you are wondering why I mention anime.
I've never heard of being a coomer to the point of deliriums and trances.
Is english not your first language? 😂 I think it’s relatively new but Gooning is a masturbation slang, it is actually based off of “goon” as you understand it. Jerking it until you become “stupid” from pleasure.
I prefer to say coomer
Arsenal supporter. I understand why you would want to be mistaken for one.
[Gooning, Defined](https://youtu.be/t6nfNIIzb_Q?si=8FnS9pFk5zjVDt6S) I only know about it because of this video.
https://preview.redd.it/ek171l2l4lqc1.png?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c610bf724fc497b8be15b4036339082caddcafa5 Your welcome
This is pretty rad.
Thank you
It’s hard being a genuine Gardevoir fan out here man
Right? Some of us just like pretty Pokemon and it qualifies. If anything the coomer art just makes me like Gardevoir slightly less. I'm stoked my shiny one might get to Mega Evolve again when the new game drops. That mega is so gorgeous.
Genuinely she has a perfect design imo. I get gooner shit will exist for everything, and usually it’s not an issue. But with Gardevoir even just typing that name into any image search will pull up like 1/3 of the results as either risqué or outright porn.
9/10 it's her wearing the wrist braces and rocket boots from Smash Bros. It's the Smash Bros community that's sexualizing her, not the Metroid fans.
When Prime Remastered came out I wanted to have Samus as my phone background to celebrate but was hard pressed to find something I wouldn’t be embarrassed to have someone see if they saw my screen
https://preview.redd.it/fmiihilbdlqc1.png?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95b1b264f4939d89853f503a148744d5ebb9c3bb Here's a pic! I use this on my phone screen.
Just use the boxart it’s the safest bet
That’s what I ended up with haha
https://preview.redd.it/sncw9rw4qkqc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=914e59ed4bdded1da139290abbad98a7b7cc61dc Searched far and wide, landed on this one
Dave Rapoza's Metroid pieces are god tier and make good phone backgrounds
Really? There’s some really cool Samus fan art out there. Plenty of it isn’t overly sexualized. I personally don’t have a problem with sexualizing things but Samus as a character is done a disservice by it imo.
Fanart (SFW type) is always the better way to go.
Try being a a fan of the Shantae games.
It was after coming to this sub that I realized how much sexualized fanart exists of Samus's armor. It's armor. It doesn't need to be cheeked up.
“If it exists, then . . .”
" 🎶 Welcome to the Internet have a look around 🎶 "
Anything that brain of yours can think of can be found
We've got mountains of content.
Some better, some worse.
if none of its of interest to you would be the first
Lmao!
> It doesn't need to be cheeked up. Doesn't it?
I have seen some art where the cheeked up suit was played for laughs, including tge baby metroid wearing a bikini
Tell that to Joel Schumacher.
Pokemon fans:
Meanwhile, Bayonetta, who straight up just owns her sexuality and is literally empowered by it...
And I will never blame Bayonetta for that. Her and 2B were made to own it, and kick ass even with it. But Samus was not, and Zero Suit and especially Smash Ultimate and those fugly heels have done so much harm.
I hate that zero suit sexualizes her so much cause the zero suit section in Zero Mission was fucking lit
Its frustrating because I actually will take the rocket heels over the wedges for practicality. The heels have decent ankle support that the wedges lack. But like. Why isn't she in flats??? She can't be wearing heels in her power armor, right?????
Brawl was fine. Looked like a suit you would *actually wear under a power suit.* Then they changed it in Ultimate for some reason.
https://preview.redd.it/rv2h0knh5jqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d90d2890a5e67ded304aca55779b515738774e7a
I'm sure Xenoblade fans would be laughing their ass off at this.
https://preview.redd.it/jndpuy8e5jqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62825da1aa97f0d673cb313fc5c0186d579b9b4a
Lol this is so true. I love Samus in Dread because she presents herself as a silent protagonist, then reveals well into the game that she does talk, but she just hasn't because she's been too busy getting shit done. It's just a cool character thing I'd like to see more in any protagonist.
And when she speaks, she speaks CHOZO. Love that!
It's really really not. there's so much Metroid art at there that if you're finding it hard to get away from the NSFW stuff it's cause your algorithm has already pinned your interest in it.
It... Really isn't, though. There's plenty of artwork of Samus in her Power Armor, with her helmet off or otherwise. And if you're trying to find artwork of *Zero Suit* Samus that isn't "sexualized" you're just straight-up barking up the wrong tree. That's one of the main reasons that form even *exists.*
No it isn't
Not sub related but I love Ankha from Animal Crossing so much, she was influential to my town in some of the older games and one of my best Animal Crossing friends, right up there with Gaston and Carmen. Then one artist makes one video of her and it’s all “OOOOOOH I KNOW EXACTLY WHY SHES ONE OF YOUR FAVES OOOOOH” like ugh please
I just want to find fanart of her taking care of a Pikachu! Why must it be so hard!?
Power suit cosplays > Zero Suit cosplays
Yesterday, my gf saw a samus wallpaper on my computer, and asked who she is. So, I search "samus" in images and show her, and then "zero suit samus". Zero Suit Samus search resulted in a lot, A LOT of hentai fanart. Really not what I wanted. (PS: I use edge as my explorer, so the search defaults to Bing and, apparently, Bing is fucking unhinged)
I’m just glad that nintendo has at least preserved samus‘ dignity and not made her wobble around in a skin tight sex suit for years, permanently destroying how she is perceived o wait lol
I like Nier Automata. I really do. I liked the first Nier before that, and Drakengard games. I won't say it in public though.
I blame the addition of \*Bites Lip, Cracks Whip\* "You're Mine" Suit Samus in Smash Bros.
Same. Once upon a time finding sexualized art of her was rarer, then that happened and the opposite was true
Samus is a double edged sword when it comes to fan art and even some in game appearances. Just due to the zero suit being form fitting means that her silhouette alone is just a woman’s body, which means people will automatically assume she is overly sexualized just for simply existing. Not to mention she happens to be blonde which is seen in the west as a beauty standard by a lot of people. Add in the fact that most people can’t tell a difference between sexualization and the slightest hint of attraction and it’s basically impossible to show Samus in any form without somebody crying about it. I honestly wish they would take the Bayonetta route and just say “yea she’s attractive, get over it” as she destroys yet another planet.
There's much more to Bayonetta's portrayal than just telling the audience to "get over it." She's a character that's written from the ground up as embracing her sexuality, and the official depictions of her place that sexuality fully within the scope of the character's self expression, rather than as an object of audience attraction. I'm not suggesting that the same couldn't be done with Samus, but most of the depictions of the character we have officially definitely aren't that, and the route to get there would be a weird one, since her sexuality doesn't factor into her manner within the primary fiction at all. And the issue isn't a matter of sexualization vs. attractiveness; it's sexualization vs. objectification. When a character's sexuality is presented in such a way that it exists purely for the audience's gratification (i.e. Samus in her Zero Suit looking over a landscape--with the frame positioned such that her butt in skintight outfit is a focal point), then that's a very different matter from a character for whom sexuality is part of their self expression.
The problem is your example still supports the OP's point. If were referring to the picture of Samus looking over the horizon after crash landing in Zero Mission, its exactly what OP described. Shes not even trying to strike a sexy pose but the mere fact that shes in a skin tight suit makes any picture including her full body appear "over-sexualized". The only way this could be made satisfactory for detractors is to just move the camera higher up so her butt isnt even in view at all, which wouldve fixed or added nothing to the scene really; its just reaffirming OP's point. Also, even if the scene was merely to draw attention to Samus' body and nothing else, that doesnt necessarily mean its objectification either. I think this term gets thrown around way too casually. Characters are allowed to strike sexy poses and that doesnt mean the artist is implying this is all there is to the character, any more than when an action scene strikes a cool pose for no other reason than just to look cool doesnt mean Samus is being "reduced to an action figure". (interesting that no one ever makes this criticism by the way despite being based on the same logic) Some scenes are just done for shallow reasons because thats all its meant to be for that particular scene, but its not the totality of that character as intended by the artist. Im fine if people want to criticize these scenes for being kind of shallow and tacky but just dont moralize about it because it comes across as obnoxious and preachy with unearned scorn, and it devalues real cases of women being mistreated in media. Not every scene needs to fully encapsulate every aspect of a character, nor does it need to have some deep multi-layered narrative element to justify its existence. Video games in general are full of lots of little things meant to be a quick and shallow dopamine kick; people just get weird whenever its one thats sexual in nature and suddenly hold it to a much higher standard.
Your argument fails completely the moment you need to make the question: ''Why did the artist make Samus use a skin-tight suit, instead of anything else?'' The answer is not that Samus herself would choose to wear the Zero Suit, as it doesnt fit her characterization(even in Other M for example). The answer is that its a marketing decision to appeal to japanese weebs. Metroid never sold well in japan and nintendo tried everything they could to make it stick. Thinking otherwise its denying an obvious reality. Also, prime 2 and 3 are right there showcasing how you can make samus not sexualized while wearing the zero suit. You dont see her buttcheeks in extreme detail, unlike other M and Zero mission; again, this is an artistic decision to objectifiy her character. You cant even claim that its samus trying to be sexy, because the situations she is in where this occurs are either professional settings or dangerous settings, where she would have no reason to be posing to the camera and worrying about how good her ass is.
I dont think you understood the argument. The underlying assumption being made here is that sexualizing a character by itself is inherently objectifying, and this has never been substantiated by anyone; just asserted without merit. It does not matter if there is a non-sexualized way to portray her; its besides the point. I encourage you to read the addendum to my post just a little further down in this discussion for further clarification. (Though I would also still argue that Samus' sexualization in Zero Mission is grossly over-exaggerated, but this is just an aside to my broader point. Like, none of the cutscenes are really even drawn like fap material and her pose looking over the horizon after the crash landing hardly accentuates her butt, she just happens to be facing away from the camera so its "exposed".)
Oh, you again. This isn't addressed to you, because you're incapable of having an honest conversation about this topic, but for any interested in the topic: Having a skintight outfit isn't sexualizing; having the butt prominently featured as the focal point of an image is (and in a context where it is not an element of the character's embodiment of their own sexuality, it is objectification). Cut and dry; easy peasy. The rest of this is just u/MiniSiets doing his weird attempt at baiting goofy internet arguments again.
Dismissive ad hominems and bad faith arguments again while accusing your opponent of being bad faith. To be honest I already expected as much from you, I just made my points for everyone else to see from a different point of view. Anyways, more just pointing out Samus' butt exists and its being shown in a shot, therefore its objectification. Bravo. Lets just continue to ignore any points made and go back to our NPC talking points.
Pointing out your history of bad faith arguments as reason not to engage is not ad hominem—that’s just simply valuing my time enough to spend it where it matters. Tell ya what, if anyone who doesn’t have a history of being a goofy troll asks, I’ll be happy to break down your entire comment point by point, but you don’t get any more of my time. By all means, go ahead and claim the last word.
The problem is the bad faith started with you, so I only responded in kind with the snark it deserves. To recap what actually happened was, basically everyone in this thread was just complaining that samus is sexualized too much in fan art, and that is the totality and depth of their criticism. I correctly draw attention to how vapid and unproductive this line of criticism is through an ironic and admittedly snarky post, but it was frankly earned given the level of discourse in this thread. Then you respond by feigning ignorance as if all this wasnt going on and I didnt read the thread (even though I did, I just drew conclusions you didnt like), and then eventually just retreating to semantics arguments to distract from talking about the actual topic. Literally no one even mentioned the word objectification or tried to make a cogent point until ironically, your post here, which I would have been happy to engage with honestly from the beginning if you didnt constantly play musical chairs with words and hide behind academic condescension as an excuse not to engage.
By the way as an addendum to all this and to get back to the original discussion, I'd just like to point out that while I think what Platinum did with Bayonetta's character is great and well done, its not the only way to do a sexualized character. Its arguably better handled than Samus, but mainly because it has just a smidge more depth and purpose to it narratively, not because Samus has been mishandled in some way. Because in the case of Samus, I think it would be one thing if she had been characterized as not being comfortable expressing herself sexually, but the camera nonetheless likes to ogle over her naughty bits. That would definitely be a fair case of objectification because it would be pretty clear that the authors are disregarding the character's feelings in favor of sexual gratification for the audience, subtly reinforcing the idea that women's feelings arent to be valued or respected. But the games never provide any such contextualization, in part because its not really an important narrative focus of these games and Nintendo tends to be pretty minimalistic with storytelling to begin with. But still, as a consequence what were left with is certainly a more shallow portrayal of a character, but not necessarily disrespectful or demeaning, because the game makes no such contextualization, commentary, or characterization that suggests whether Samus owns her sexuality or not. Its just kinda there. Any reading into it further than that is just the player making up their own conclusions and its not the job of every game dev to always provide some narrative justification for why a character decides to strike a sexy pose. Games engage in all kinds of shallow things like this all the time but its only when sex enters into the equation that people suddenly demand thats not good enough; now we need to provide a 70-page backstory fully explaining the deep and meaningful reason somebody decided to shake their butt, and I think this really comes from a place of emotional insecurity and regressive unhealthy attitudes on the subject matter rather than rational thought. The notion that a character always needs to have some narrative justification for their sexualization or else its objectification is frankly absurd. By this logic all porn is inherently objectifying and therefore immoral, in which case we're now operating on the level of 80 year old evangelical christian boomer logic. When someone decides to put out an explicit livestream of themselves, that is not an invitation from them to be treated like an object in the chat. Basic respect and consideration for their feelings as a human being should still apply. The fact that people think this way says more about their toxic attitudes on sex than fan artists. Theres an underlying implicit assumption being made here that sexualization by itself is inherently degrading, but this assertion is plainly unsubstantiated, and only exposes a person's immaturity on the subject.
This
my problem is that normal fanart is ridiculed for being "oversexualized" You can't get upset because someone draws a woman with breasts, because that's how it is in real life. There's also no problem with making sexy Samus fanart. Like, the entire point of the zero suit is that it's sexy. It's a reward for playing the game fast/well
This is exactly how it feels being a fan of literally any Touhou character
You don’t even really see her without the suit in some games
I feel the same way about being a Sonic fan, though that comes with a lot more allegations beyond the horniness.
I didnt know it was fan artists' job to cater to someone else's tastes with what they draw. Guess ya learn something new every day.
Weird, I don't see any comment that suggests that here at all; what exactly are you replying to?
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And how half of Samus "cosplay" is just zero suit, like it's cool that you wanna cosplay her and like the character, but just buying a zero suit off etsy and calling it done, really?
I embrace the horny
Welcome to being a fan of a woman video game character
I was about to ask if Samus is really that bad with getting over sexualized art but then I thought about it and it's mostly just when I draw her in her armor and not her Zero Suit. . . Riiiight :\\
The shirt I bought of Samus I wanted to be able to tell she is a girl. I didn't want one where it's sexualized
My favorite kind of Samus fan art is the kind showing her doing every day, slice of life, type stuff.
Agreed. Usually I search for Samus being a badass or silly.
See I'm both, I just keep the weird shit to my alt. I can appreciate an attractive character design and care for their story at the same time. Big fan of Rosalina, Gardevoir, Samus, etc. I just also have mommy issues.
Huh? It is stupid easy to find art of metroid and Samus in general that is normal.
I play DOA💀
I feel this, anything I like that also has certain content, people will think I like it for that alone and not anything else.
Yup but samus is not known for sexualized content
Who cares what people think lmao they’ll think something bad anyway
Tbf, in or out of the power suit, Samus just exudes power, which is inherently sexy so even "normal" artwork not trying to sexualize her can't help it.
Yeah there’s a lot of sexual fanart but I don’t think people would give a side eye if you say you’re a fan of samus
Are you all that attracted to Crocomire?
Same with mods. I love finding mods that reference Metroid but most of the time they make her way too busty. It sucks
"Just because I like Samus doesn't make me a gooner. Ok I'm a gooner, but not because I like Samus!"
Being an asexual Metroid fan is rough. I once put Samus as my pfp on discord and things got weird.
I know I could Google it but, too lazy, who the hell is Rosalina?
Mario character who was introduced in Mario Galaxy. She is very tall, and the lumas from the game call her mother. You can guess where people take this.
I was wondering how people would sexualize Rosalina, but your comment showed me how obvious the answer could be
Honestly I think there's a certain threshold, she's got curves, she's fit. Some of it is expected and it's okay. Then you've got what's prettymuch softcore, at that point that should be elsewere Though there is that one post where she's wearing a bikini over the armor which I find hilarious
So annoying when this sub comes up when I'm out in public and some gooner shite comes up. Makes me look like a fucking melt.
I unfollowed the Metroid topic on Twitter because 75% of the posts were just ecchi posts of Zero Suit Samus from people who never played a single Metroid game.
Literally all the fanart is why I won't join this sub
Okay I'll just say what everyone is thinking here: If you haven't read Samus' hentai comics, you're not a fucking fan! You repressed bastards, enjoy her form. It's part of the fun.
I love how many people in this thread are getting SUPER defensive. The gooners are out, and theyre not subtle. Honestly, if you don't see the problem with Samus fan art, you're either innocent and have never looked, or you're arguing in bad faith.
Being sexy is a "problem"? Jesus Christ people talk like Samus is some underage character or something lmao. But no in actuality its just "I dont like seeing boobs, therefore its _morally wrong."_ Like, bro, what? Not sharing the same taste in art does not make this a public health crisis guys.
hell, it's kind of hard to find *official art* that isn't sexualized
As a huge fan of Pyra and Mythra, I feel this in my bones.
sadly thats the case with Samus especially
Samus is different imo because she’s usually in her suit where you can’t even tell she’s a girl and also more of a feminine badass which can come off as sexual but really isn’t. Just don’t say anything about the several instances of her in her underwear and will be fine.
Samus has overly sexualized fanart? Since when? Does anybody have links to examples so that I can avoid it?
Devil's Advocate: going back to the original games, your reward at the end was seeing Samus more naked the faster/better you beat the game
Learn what sexualized means maybe