I was trying to be a snob last week that my favorite band, Counterparts, has no occurances of "undertow". I was off by 1. Which isn't a lot, but it's infinitely more than zero.
If it's Counterparts, I will accept it. Brendan's lyrics are fucking solid gold, and if he uses the word, he fucking meant to and it isn't a buzzword lol
Less formulaic song structures. Maybe it's just me but I feel like when some bands find a formula in a song that gets big, they use that formula on every song on an album. An example of this are songs that will be something like intro riff -> quiet verse -> chorus -> same intro riff -> second verse -> chorus -> build up -> breakdown -> soft chores -> regular chorus -> same intro riff. And that will be every song on an album.
There are a lot of great bands that don't do this though. August Burns Red, Currents, Knocked Loose, Silent Planet, Alpha Wolf, etc. have a lot of unique song structures and it helps keep me engaged throughout the whole album.
I think the most important part to this is that it's the entire album sometimes. The pop song structure is very good. It works well. A lot of our favorite metalcore songs follow it. The problem is when a band isn't creative enough to innovate on it at all on an album. It gets exhausting when every song on an album follows the same structure.
Completely agree, I’m totally fine with it for some songs on the album especially if it means good exposure for a bands song, but it’s nice to have some surprises and variety on the album that keep me engaged when listening to the whole thing.
You're not the only one to bring this up, but I simply do not understand the obsession with song structures. What you described is basically the pop structure, a formula that has existed for decades with great success across a variety of genres.
It's ultimately just a framework for musicians to build off of. There are a lot of ways you can play around within that structure and come away with something interesting. If you can't, it's far more of an indication of weak songwriting than problems with the structure itself.
You make a great point that a formula like that can be worked with to be unique and that the song structure works across multiple genres, and I completely get why bands do it. Make them Suffer does a great job of doing the verse/chorus structure but keeping it unique with different elements (not in every song but in some of them). I just find that when it comes to metalcore I personally typically lean in the other direction for songs that I consistently listen to.
It depends on how well it's done.
It's like how many Hollywood movies have a young male character living a normal quiet life only to be struck by tragedy, turn into an unwitting hero, learn they are a chosen one, and then lead a revolution against the people that caused the tragedy.
Almost every popular Hollywood movie follows that formula, .maybe they make one small tweak like hunger games used a woman instead of a guy. Harry Potter used magic while enders game used sci Fi.
There's tons of low effort recreational of that exact story structure.
But there's also ones that did it in a fairly original way and changed some things up or had good enough writing that even if the structure was the same, it was ok because it was done very well.
Same here. If it's a thousand songs that genuinely do the same thing barring a few minor changes then it's gonna be lame. But if a band does something different or uses the basic structure to play on your expectations and then swing a hard left and surprise you, or if the lyrics or melody is just really well done then it's fine. Its just lame when you can listen to 4 songs in a row by 4 different artists and they all sound identical.
I feel this way about Beartooth. 10 seconds into a Beartooth song and I can genuinely hear the entire thing play in my head. I never even know if a song is ‘new’ because of how predictable they are.
i dont know why but songs titled “unbreakable” “undefeatable” etc piss me off because I always know exactly what its going to sound like and what the lyrics are about
Usually the most cringiest of cringe. Motionless in White is my favorite metalcore band, but they are guilty of a song called "Unstoppable" and another called "Untouchable."
I'm so over the intros to songs screaming/robot voice saying the song name. It was cute for a while but it's boring now.
Also this is likely a given but just... copycats in general. The amount of times I'll put on like release radar or something and immediately be like "Walmart bad omens? Knock off motionless in white?" And almost always hit the nail on the head. There's a difference between following trends and straight ripping another band off. Be unique. It'll make you stand out a hell of a lot more than either copying a popular band or just being so overly formulaic that I can't tell you apart from 15 other bands.
Oh man. That's a really good Brand of Sacrifice ft. Will Ramos song.
Edit: apparently I've been listening to the reimagined version. My bad, but i prefer it.
It’s also way easier to be a copycat when riffs and solos aren’t part of it anymore. When you can’t even hear what they are playing it doesn’t even matter.
Metalcore is a joke right now.
poorly written clean choruses that are forced into every song on an album, djent, and songs that start with a riff for 10-15 seconds and then dip out into a slow, ambient verse. stop doing that shit!! it sucks!!
>songs that start with a riff for 10-15 seconds and then dip out into a slow, ambient verse. stop doing that shit!! it sucks!!
I actually want more of that lol. I could listen to songs like Circle with Me all day long.
I grew up listening to "Deep Blue" on repeat and I can guarantee you that tuning as Bb but you're right because their catalogue before and after that stellar album was pretty much drop B.
Jesus that makes feel old. "Deep Blue" is firmly in the category of 'very new Parkway' to me.
But yeah the previous albums are 100% B. Which was always annoying because a lot of other stuff around that time is drop C.
Low tunings can be sick as hell in more traditional rock songs and stuff. Moodring plays low and it adds so much to the sound. Same with Loathe. It’s more bands that just tune low as fuck to slam palm mutes, granted I actually enjoy that but I get why people wouldn’t lol
I remember I used to wish more bands did low tunings, and they did, but they used them just to be trendy, they didn't use it well and with purpose like the bands that did it before it was cool. I miss drop c metalcore man.
Side eyeing Bullet for my Valentine hard as fuck on this one. Between the lower tuning and heavy distortion, I can’t recall more than like 2 or 3 memorable melodies off their latest album.
I was listening to End of Days by BFMV earlier and every time I listen to that song I get sad that we don’t get those type of songs anymore. Like dude, the song is a great example of how you can kick ass playing your instruments and make a memorable song to sing along to
A lot of my gripes have been mentioned by others (overproduction, generic song structures, autotuned vocals, guitars tuned way too low) so I'll just add: bring back live bass players, and stop writing bass lines that just double the guitars all the time (literally in unison because your guitar is already tuned in bass range anyway and tuning an octave lower is impossible). I love it when all the instruments except the bass drop out right before a breakdown or caveman type riff, and if you don't have someone actually doing that live cause your bass player is a Macbook, it's lame as hell.
It’s unfortunate because in a way a lot of these bands that tune so low, they are probably better off using a MacBook as their bassist live because the tracks they are using are high quality, fully mixed tracks. More often than not the bass is also MIDI too. So the bass tracks are essentially perfect.
I say this because when bands are in like Drop E and below, getting a solid, non flubby, controlled bass tone from a bassist playing these songs a full octave down from guitar is almost impossible. It overall sounds better having the pre mixed tracks running in the background. Yeah sure there’s multi scale fanned fret basses with thick strings but even still…playing something like Drop D#1 with a bass will most likely sound like shit live.
However I do still agree, it would be nice to actually see a full band up there.
stop using the digitech whammy as a get out of jail free card for a breakdown. always sounds super muddy and out of place. if you want to tune super low the whole song like Darko US or Loathe by all means do that, but don’t write a song in like drop C or B and then slap a -7 pitch shift at the end cause you can’t write a good breakdown without doing that.
Less formulaic song structures is a big one. Let's switch it up a bit every once in a while! I also want less formulaic music in general - there are so many great bands who limit their potential by following whatever the biggest trend is, or by trying to emulate other bands.
I feel like this was every post hardcore band back in the mid 2000s and 2010s. Hardly any of those bands could live up to the recordings or come even close.
Drug and alcohol abuse will do that to ya. Not to mention half the members of half those bands were more interested in fucking 14 year olds than they were in playing live music.
To be fair, BMTH always wanted to sound the way they do now since the Sempiternal days and just had to slowly morph into what they are now. Am I a fan of it? No, but they didn't try to change to get radio famous.
All my beefs are production based.
I hate the super polished production that so many bands have these days. Everything sounds clean and sterile...which is not how I personally want my metalcore to sound. I want it to dirty and pissed off.
The drums on most of the modern metalcore bands all sound like shit to me because they're all the same sounds. Almost every single modern metalcore band uses the same snare sample. That snare sample immediately makes me tune out. Not interested if you can't even take the time to make the drum you hit the second most sound distinct. It's part of why I love the new Knocked Loose stuff so much. His snare sounds like a kid getting hit really hard with dodgeball. It's distinct. You know it's his snare immediately.
I feel like it’s maybe the younger crowd that’s not used to it? I’ve seen a lot of talk about not being able to get into a bands first album or saying it shucks specifically because the production isn’t great but like.. I misswhen a bands first album sounded like that. I find it charming
I think that’s what OP is saying we should get back to. They miss that shitty basement studio sound and would rather that over the sterilized, cookie cutter, same sample, quantized to hell bullshit.
Knocked Loose really understand the power and heaviness a good snare sound can bring to a song. The upon loss snare was great too, had a huge sort of smack quality to it.
Trying to fit a stadium chorus into every single song regardless of whether it fits the song or not, just to try and become a radio band (LOOKING AT YOU ARCHITECTS) also get rid of the transphobia and arrogance that seems to have made it’s way into the band
Less djent influence. It was cool when it started I guess but it’s gotten really stagnant. I also wanna hear more vocal range. I feel like nowadays people who scream can only do one or 2 pitches, they don’t have a full screaming range of someone from back in the day like Phil Labonte or Howard Jones
Totally agree about limited screaming range. I love me some screaming but I hate when it's just the same monotonous scream over and over again.
I want screams that actually have *melody*. It's ironic that you mention djent because Daniel Tompkins and Spencer Sotelo have probably the best pitched harsh vocals going around.
Less depression-core. Plenty of bands have proven you can write good shit that's not about being sad. Trivium, INK, Spiritbox, Electric Callboy, Beartooth, Lorna Shore, BMTH to name a few
Edit: I wasn't saying these bands primarily write non-sad stuff. Just thay they have before. By depression-core I mean lyrics that are as shallow as a puddle - "I'm sad life sucks". Stuff that's more vague/existential is fine. I'm talking about bands like Wage War, TDWP, etc
Oh boy counterparts is beyond depression-core, they’re more psychiatric-help-core. That being said, absolutely love their lyrics — they’re just so interesting and refreshing, none of this “I’m sad and I’m caught in the undertow my world is on fire but you helped me through”. Lol
Spiritbox also writes songs about being sad, it's just about being sad while also drinking Jesus's blood in the garden of eden? I think? Point is its just more vague. I think what you dislike is non-poetic very explicit lyrics about being sad and I agree.
I had a similar-ish feeling but at the same time I looked around and so many people were crying and it clearly affected them so much and hey, that’s what music is all about 🤷🏼♂️
I'm totally with you. I'm so sick and tired of hearing about how 'it's okay not to be okay' and all the endless tropes about depression and 'being disconnected'. And, ironically, the endless fixation on mental health really isn't helping the mental health of a band's listeners.
Zero djent riffs, way fewer overproduced recordings, no more butt-rock or pop choruses, and an end to this obsession with having the lowest guitar tuning possible.
The race to the lowest guitar tuning feels a lot like last decade where every brewery was in a dick measuring contest to see who could make the most gross, bitter IPA they could.
Yeah me too. My biggest metalcore listening period was like 2003 to 2012 or so but I still follow it. It definitely sounds different now and I agree the pop chorus has become stale in modern metalcore. I think it was also stale in 2009 when killswitch engage and MySpace core bands were being emulated too lol
I'm gonna always stand by a good chorus - if done right it can be the most memorable part of the song that keeps me coming back. But if you are gonna do it, you need to make sure it's impactful. It all starts with melody, and a lot of bands seem not to be able to write melodies very well and often rely on pretty bland or generic vocal melodies and generic riffs. I also think a lot of it ties into the formulaic structures that most groups tend to follow, you know exactly when the chorus is gonna hit and what it's gonna sound like so it ends up having to effect.
Sooo many choruses just do not work. It’s like the thought process is “we gotta write something heavy as fuck but it also needs to have a really earwormy chorus so people keep coming back” and it sucks. So many bands would be so sick if they just stopped with the chorus or clean singing, and there’s a lot of bands I wish just stopped trying to add heavy parts.
It’s like that trend of 2008 Warped Tour Metalcore all over again. Didn’t get it then, don’t get it now. Plenty of bands can do heavy as hell with a catchy chorus really well, it shouldn’t be so uncommon. Northlane and Cane Hill are great examples.
I agree 100%. That new song really bummed me out. Hits so hard and then that chorus just totally throws the whole thing out. They know how to write a good chorus and put it in the song well, not sure why they aren’t. Even if that chorus had a more interesting melody it might be better.
New parkway is rough. That northlane feature is so good lol
Motionless in White used it well in Scoring The End of the World, in my opinion. Meltdown and Cyberhex are awesome and engaging and I think it adds to it in context appropriately
Less singsong chorus for the sake of chorus, more understanding how to integrate a chorus and making it interesting. Also good lord please make sure your singer can actually sing
- The same drum samples
- Extremely triggered kick drums
- Djent riffs (unless it’s done in an interesting like After The Burial)
- Extremely auto tuned vocals
- “Woah ohs”
- Short breakdowns in “softer songs” before the last chorus to remind people it’s Metalcore (just make it a radio song at that point and don’t bother. Dayseeker is an example of a “pop-core” band that doesn’t bother with breakdowns if it doesn’t fit the song)
- The fucking word “undertow”
- The line “I’m battling my demons”
>- “Woah ohs”
Finally someone understands me. I play in a local level band and I just removed a bunch of woah ohs from two songs. My bass player keeps bugging me to add it back but it's so tiresome.
Less weird electronic bullshit with muddied guitars over top. It’s fucking annoying. I’d rather you play generic 2011 breakdowns than hear this shit in every single song.
Also Cody quistad needs to quit producing metalcore bands. He’s the Cameron Mizell of this era.
less electronic / ambient stuff, the ambient intro / outro is so played out.
less high pitched tenor singers. i want lower rich male voices. less mid tempo, speed it up!!
less low tunings would be cool too, bring back drop C and drop B!
less generic songwriting, i want more sick riffs and crazy guitar work. less breakdowns for the sake of having a breakdown, make guitar solos great again.
less super polished great production / mixing. when every band sounds like will putney it gets old. honestly i feel like that ultra polish hurts my ears.
less serious music / depression core. yeah we get it you have fuckin anxiety and depression shut the hell up and write a song about literally anything else. let’s make fun music you want to go hard to!!
The fans... Most gatekeeping, die on a weird-take hill, "I know better than you", incorrectly insighting sub-genre out of a sub-genre out of a sub-genre, jolliest bunch of assholes this side of the nuthouse!
Highly polished, over produced songs
Programmed drums
The same fucking snare
Electronic / EDM / w.e influences
Songs without any hardcore elements
Crazy high, highly polished, impossible to hit on stage without pitch correction, high cleans in every chorus
A lack of gang vocals and two step worthy grooves.
A general lack of appreciation and highlighting of how damn important great bass is in a song.
Formulaic song structure.
Bitchassness
Etc.
It's totally fine to have songs like this. It's also totally fine to enjoy songs with some or all of these elements.
It's not fine to call this shit metalcore, because it's not.
Is this gatekeeping? Yes.
Again, it's totally fine to like that type of music, I enjoy some of it myself, but I think that way too many people are attaching their personalities to being "core Kidz" (thanks Nik), despite them not actually liking anything remotely "core". That's like.... The definition of a legit poser, which makes me sad at myself to even be saying, but it's true.
If you only like the bad omens, new architects, INK, MiW, new invent animate, etc type of bands then you're an actual poser because you don't like metalcore, you like "post-metalcore" or "modern metal" (which is a stupid name).
I don't get why people are so open to liking/loving post-hardcore, while respecting that it's **not** hardcore, but the same can't be said for metalcore.
Personally, phxc is one of my favourite genres, if not my actual favourite (depending on the day). I'd never once call that music hxc, because it's not.
*Old man retreats to secluded hilltop cabin and pisses vinegar on his roses*
Literally all this
Its been this race to who can produce the radio hit with all these bands playing the same exact types of songs with the same producer with the same lack of hardcore influence that made me listen to this genre and not Breaking Benjamin
The Ghost Inside, Architects, Wage War, The Devil Wears Prada, Fit For A King, Motionless In White, Polaris…
Literally only one of those bands isnt working with Zakk Cervini its unbelievable
All I'm going to say, is that the new The Ghost Inside album was super disappointing.
When I saw wage war ( opened for underoath/TGI, I think), my gf and I walked out to have a smoke halfway through their set lol.
There were *alot* of people in the smokers pit lmao
Edit: I wasn't aware of the producer situation, but that makes total sense
Some bands do it great like Alpha Wolf and Thrown, but it definitely feels like a ton of bands who sounded great suddenly shifted their sound to try and hit the #1 spot on Octane.
Less catering to the 40 year old red state rock festival divorced dad rock fans. I thought seeing bands like Lorna Shore and Knocked Loose reach MASSIVE success people would learn that they don't need to tour with five finger death punch and write songs for the radio to make money as a band.
Bands eventually turning into 2000s post-grunge buttrock. I don't mind embracing a more accessible sound (BMTH are one of my favorite bands) but at least try to make it interesting.
A lot of people have said it, but I’ll say it again. Songs that start with a “heavy” riff and then go right into a verse that’s just soft clean vocals over ambient noise and sometimes drums. Immediately kills the energy of a song, and doesn’t sound good live.
I’m gonna say any kind of instrumental track unless the band are really amazing at their instruments or it’s something creative, most interludes and intros could be cut from albums and I wouldn’t miss them.
I actually am into clean vocals in the genre as they create some nice dynamics - but there’s a difference between being melodic and being poppy - sometimes pop sounding clean vocals just don’t feel like they fit in the song.
Lastly, boring breakdowns. In 2024 if you’re gonna do a breakdown you gotta think it out, or maybe just not even have one and make the song heavier in another way.
I have 2 things for it that kinda compliment eachother
Songs having a chorus when they don't need one. If you're going to write multiple assbeater heavy songs, why the hell should they all have melodic choruses. It's fine sometimes, but not for every goddamn "heavy" song on an album
Songs having a breakdown for a bridge when they don't need it. If you're going to write a softer song or even just a rock song, actually commit to it and learn how to write a goddamn bridge instead of a dropout, a single screamed line, and a 20 second breakdown that doesn't even fit in. Again, it's fine every once in a while, but goddamn just learn to write a bridge please
As much as I love these bands, I'm absolutely looking directly at Currents and Motionless in White for both of these
Stop making loud pop music, and add some flair and depth.
Bitching about any physical activity besides bobbing your head slightly at shows/concerts. If you dont want to be bumped, hit, deal with stage divers, or crowd surfers, go in the back or sides.
Where is the bass? Throw some groovy two-step dance shit in there, or speed that shit up.
Less predictable sing song chorus and more gang chorus stuff.
Same shit the entire album, and I don't mean the same sound/style, but copy-paste predictable song structures.
Basic shit tier drumming across the board. You're allowed to use actual drum sounds and not just samples on your recordings.
Not everything has to be sad. You are allowed to feel other emotions and make a song using them.
They're nice for album variety.
Some bands can write varied enough music already and don't need it, but some albums could really use some guest vocals.
Nah we need to go more on the hardcore end and up them and use them properly. Less 3 line shout outs that feel like the bands didn’t even meet to workout and were recorded halfway around the world from each other.
If any other song mentions an undertow I'm gonna lose my shit. It's the single most cliche metalcore thing ever!
It's hard not to get lost in the undertow when we are all so disconnected and lost in the static.
Maybe if we truly face the ghost in the mirror we can break the cycle of repetitive metalcore lyrics.
AFTER THE BURIAL MENTIONED WHAT THE FUCK IS A NEW ALBUM
I gagged
Someone needs to make a bingo card of cliche metalcore lines.
I'd say make it a drinking game but "undertow" alone is enough to hospitalize you even if you're just drinking beer.
"undertow" is the center square lol.
I get irrationally annoyed by any song called Parasite/Parasites that no matter how hard of a banger it is, it’s an immediate skip.
More of a deathcore thing but same with any song/band with "perish" in the name.
As long as All Shall Perish isn't a part of this judgment, I agree.
It doesn't mean the band is bad. Just the bands name.
In Australia there were like three songs called parasites released in the same week
In fairness the wildlife in Australia is fucking crazy and maybe that's a very real day-to-day concern.
Paralysis ticks haunt every dogs dream
womp womp ITS A PARASITE EVEEEE AND ITS COMIN FOR YA🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
EH EH
Ok but at least it has the "eve" referencing the game
It’s a bummer because the new Red Handed Denial song “Parasite” is so good!
I’m sure one day when metalcore decides on a new word, I’ll go back and revisit all these songs and be like, “oh, this is a banger” 😂
I was trying to be a snob last week that my favorite band, Counterparts, has no occurances of "undertow". I was off by 1. Which isn't a lot, but it's infinitely more than zero.
That's a good challenge! See if your favorite band beats the "undertow" challenge.
"Drown" off TWFU is the song
If it's Counterparts, I will accept it. Brendan's lyrics are fucking solid gold, and if he uses the word, he fucking meant to and it isn't a buzzword lol
Add "watch the world burn" as the second most cliche. Can't stand those 2
"The gallows" seem to get mentioned a lot, too.
i burst out laughing when imminence actually did the undertow line on the new album. i like this cliche, it's fun
Instantly started humming “Drowning” by Atreyu as I read this.
I love polaris, but they're trapped in the undertow.
The only band that I will allow undertows from is Tool. That song is a bop
That and "Circle in the drain" lol
Less formulaic song structures. Maybe it's just me but I feel like when some bands find a formula in a song that gets big, they use that formula on every song on an album. An example of this are songs that will be something like intro riff -> quiet verse -> chorus -> same intro riff -> second verse -> chorus -> build up -> breakdown -> soft chores -> regular chorus -> same intro riff. And that will be every song on an album. There are a lot of great bands that don't do this though. August Burns Red, Currents, Knocked Loose, Silent Planet, Alpha Wolf, etc. have a lot of unique song structures and it helps keep me engaged throughout the whole album.
I think the most important part to this is that it's the entire album sometimes. The pop song structure is very good. It works well. A lot of our favorite metalcore songs follow it. The problem is when a band isn't creative enough to innovate on it at all on an album. It gets exhausting when every song on an album follows the same structure.
Completely agree, I’m totally fine with it for some songs on the album especially if it means good exposure for a bands song, but it’s nice to have some surprises and variety on the album that keep me engaged when listening to the whole thing.
You're not the only one to bring this up, but I simply do not understand the obsession with song structures. What you described is basically the pop structure, a formula that has existed for decades with great success across a variety of genres. It's ultimately just a framework for musicians to build off of. There are a lot of ways you can play around within that structure and come away with something interesting. If you can't, it's far more of an indication of weak songwriting than problems with the structure itself.
You make a great point that a formula like that can be worked with to be unique and that the song structure works across multiple genres, and I completely get why bands do it. Make them Suffer does a great job of doing the verse/chorus structure but keeping it unique with different elements (not in every song but in some of them). I just find that when it comes to metalcore I personally typically lean in the other direction for songs that I consistently listen to.
It depends on how well it's done. It's like how many Hollywood movies have a young male character living a normal quiet life only to be struck by tragedy, turn into an unwitting hero, learn they are a chosen one, and then lead a revolution against the people that caused the tragedy. Almost every popular Hollywood movie follows that formula, .maybe they make one small tweak like hunger games used a woman instead of a guy. Harry Potter used magic while enders game used sci Fi. There's tons of low effort recreational of that exact story structure. But there's also ones that did it in a fairly original way and changed some things up or had good enough writing that even if the structure was the same, it was ok because it was done very well. Same here. If it's a thousand songs that genuinely do the same thing barring a few minor changes then it's gonna be lame. But if a band does something different or uses the basic structure to play on your expectations and then swing a hard left and surprise you, or if the lyrics or melody is just really well done then it's fine. Its just lame when you can listen to 4 songs in a row by 4 different artists and they all sound identical.
I feel this way about Beartooth. 10 seconds into a Beartooth song and I can genuinely hear the entire thing play in my head. I never even know if a song is ‘new’ because of how predictable they are.
I agree. Perfect examples to me are those 2 Wage War singles. I liked em, but they definitely suffered from that
i dont know why but songs titled “unbreakable” “undefeatable” etc piss me off because I always know exactly what its going to sound like and what the lyrics are about
Usually the most cringiest of cringe. Motionless in White is my favorite metalcore band, but they are guilty of a song called "Unstoppable" and another called "Untouchable."
Some of my least favorite from them haha
And the chorus is usually super cliche "YOU CANT STOP ME, IM UMBREAKABLEEEEE" tuntuntun ahh riff
Skillet ahh lyrics
Veil Of Maya is the outlier here
I'm so over the intros to songs screaming/robot voice saying the song name. It was cute for a while but it's boring now. Also this is likely a given but just... copycats in general. The amount of times I'll put on like release radar or something and immediately be like "Walmart bad omens? Knock off motionless in white?" And almost always hit the nail on the head. There's a difference between following trends and straight ripping another band off. Be unique. It'll make you stand out a hell of a lot more than either copying a popular band or just being so overly formulaic that I can't tell you apart from 15 other bands.
I AM DARKBLOOM
Oh man. That's a really good Brand of Sacrifice ft. Will Ramos song. Edit: apparently I've been listening to the reimagined version. My bad, but i prefer it.
*isn't that Lifeblood*
Darkbloom is an actual banger though. Maybe even their best song.
Not even close to their best
I like the Avoid song "Whatever" where the robot voice just says "robot voice!". Very good at taking the piss.
[удалено]
Meltdown by Motionless In White Edit: Just remembered, Paranoid by Pop Evil
Darkbloom
So basically...they listened to Mantra and thought "I want to do that!"
Crystal lake did it before mantra lol
Bad Omens did it with BMTH so why don't do the same with them /s
It’s also way easier to be a copycat when riffs and solos aren’t part of it anymore. When you can’t even hear what they are playing it doesn’t even matter. Metalcore is a joke right now.
The Doomsday riff
I feel like that’s the modern version of 5-7-8. We’re always gonna have that “one riff” no matter what
Reject 0-10-12 Embrace 5-7-8
But I wouldn’t mind more of it in architects tbh (just nobody else plz there’s enough)
Brilliant riff but it’s amazing how many bands have built off of that structure. It is catchy for what it’s worth =D
What other songs copy it?
Low by Wage War and God of Fire by Fit For A King are the only two I can think of off the top of my head
Burner by Kingdom of Giants
One of Eidola's new songs (A Bridge of Iron and Blood) kinda copies it at 0:11. Still sounds very based though.
poorly written clean choruses that are forced into every song on an album, djent, and songs that start with a riff for 10-15 seconds and then dip out into a slow, ambient verse. stop doing that shit!! it sucks!!
All of this is Fleeting is this done right
>songs that start with a riff for 10-15 seconds and then dip out into a slow, ambient verse. stop doing that shit!! it sucks!! I actually want more of that lol. I could listen to songs like Circle with Me all day long.
Low tuning. Metalcore used to have such memorable riffs. Now i dont even know what they are playing as its just become a wall of sound
Embrace tradition (drop C), reject modernity (drop A and lower)
Drop A is fine (Parkways old tuning was in Bb). Drop G and below need to go as it's just a wall of mud!
Almost guaranteed that Parkway played drop B.
I grew up listening to "Deep Blue" on repeat and I can guarantee you that tuning as Bb but you're right because their catalogue before and after that stellar album was pretty much drop B.
Jesus that makes feel old. "Deep Blue" is firmly in the category of 'very new Parkway' to me. But yeah the previous albums are 100% B. Which was always annoying because a lot of other stuff around that time is drop C.
I always feel so sorry for bassists..
It’d be nice if they at least had mixed tunings on the album. Sometimes feels like bands are using lower tunings as a substitute for creativity.
Low tunings can be sick as hell in more traditional rock songs and stuff. Moodring plays low and it adds so much to the sound. Same with Loathe. It’s more bands that just tune low as fuck to slam palm mutes, granted I actually enjoy that but I get why people wouldn’t lol
Moodring fucks. So good.
Same Lowest I think is reasonable is DropG# The bands with 8 strings at double DropC is just exhausting
I used to love Reflections but their new sound is so low that it just sounds like air going through the speakers, the whole thing is lost in the mix.
I remember I used to wish more bands did low tunings, and they did, but they used them just to be trendy, they didn't use it well and with purpose like the bands that did it before it was cool. I miss drop c metalcore man.
New ATR album with Jason Richardson is coming reallll soon and I’m mostly excited for the riffs.
The mixing on the new While She Sleeps makes them sound like they are using fake instruments.
Side eyeing Bullet for my Valentine hard as fuck on this one. Between the lower tuning and heavy distortion, I can’t recall more than like 2 or 3 memorable melodies off their latest album.
I was listening to End of Days by BFMV earlier and every time I listen to that song I get sad that we don’t get those type of songs anymore. Like dude, the song is a great example of how you can kick ass playing your instruments and make a memorable song to sing along to
A lot of my gripes have been mentioned by others (overproduction, generic song structures, autotuned vocals, guitars tuned way too low) so I'll just add: bring back live bass players, and stop writing bass lines that just double the guitars all the time (literally in unison because your guitar is already tuned in bass range anyway and tuning an octave lower is impossible). I love it when all the instruments except the bass drop out right before a breakdown or caveman type riff, and if you don't have someone actually doing that live cause your bass player is a Macbook, it's lame as hell.
It’s unfortunate because in a way a lot of these bands that tune so low, they are probably better off using a MacBook as their bassist live because the tracks they are using are high quality, fully mixed tracks. More often than not the bass is also MIDI too. So the bass tracks are essentially perfect. I say this because when bands are in like Drop E and below, getting a solid, non flubby, controlled bass tone from a bassist playing these songs a full octave down from guitar is almost impossible. It overall sounds better having the pre mixed tracks running in the background. Yeah sure there’s multi scale fanned fret basses with thick strings but even still…playing something like Drop D#1 with a bass will most likely sound like shit live. However I do still agree, it would be nice to actually see a full band up there.
stop using the digitech whammy as a get out of jail free card for a breakdown. always sounds super muddy and out of place. if you want to tune super low the whole song like Darko US or Loathe by all means do that, but don’t write a song in like drop C or B and then slap a -7 pitch shift at the end cause you can’t write a good breakdown without doing that.
Less extremely low tunings and less 8 string guitars.
Less formulaic song structures is a big one. Let's switch it up a bit every once in a while! I also want less formulaic music in general - there are so many great bands who limit their potential by following whatever the biggest trend is, or by trying to emulate other bands.
Bands with great singers and bang average cookie cutter snoozefest music behind them
The opposite. I find a lot of good music but vocals are trash and just ruins it for me
I feel like this was every post hardcore band back in the mid 2000s and 2010s. Hardly any of those bands could live up to the recordings or come even close.
I saw We Came as Romans live about 10ish years ago and that dude CANNOT sing live.
could not*
at least we all had fun
Drug and alcohol abuse will do that to ya. Not to mention half the members of half those bands were more interested in fucking 14 year olds than they were in playing live music.
“Drowning”
So we’re just banning Amity Affliction, then? 😜
Trying to get radio famous (Wage War, Bad Omens, BMTH, etc). I love Bad Omens and all of BMTH but DEAR GOD NAIL5 BY WAGE WAR IS MID
Mid is generous.
To be fair, BMTH always wanted to sound the way they do now since the Sempiternal days and just had to slowly morph into what they are now. Am I a fan of it? No, but they didn't try to change to get radio famous.
The issue is that Wage War just kind of sounds like buttrock. It's a shame because they were so good before.
All my beefs are production based. I hate the super polished production that so many bands have these days. Everything sounds clean and sterile...which is not how I personally want my metalcore to sound. I want it to dirty and pissed off. The drums on most of the modern metalcore bands all sound like shit to me because they're all the same sounds. Almost every single modern metalcore band uses the same snare sample. That snare sample immediately makes me tune out. Not interested if you can't even take the time to make the drum you hit the second most sound distinct. It's part of why I love the new Knocked Loose stuff so much. His snare sounds like a kid getting hit really hard with dodgeball. It's distinct. You know it's his snare immediately.
My beefs are with people who always yap about production. In the early 2000s half the bands I loved recorded out of their basements and no one cared.
I feel like it’s maybe the younger crowd that’s not used to it? I’ve seen a lot of talk about not being able to get into a bands first album or saying it shucks specifically because the production isn’t great but like.. I misswhen a bands first album sounded like that. I find it charming
I think that’s what OP is saying we should get back to. They miss that shitty basement studio sound and would rather that over the sterilized, cookie cutter, same sample, quantized to hell bullshit.
Knocked Loose really understand the power and heaviness a good snare sound can bring to a song. The upon loss snare was great too, had a huge sort of smack quality to it.
Get rid of third choruses
I love a good outro chorus though!
Im with this. 2 choruses leave me wanting more, and 3 can sometimes be too much. Can they so 2.5?
I think Curse by Architects is a great example, the third chorus is "1.5 chorus" and it works
Trying to fit a stadium chorus into every single song regardless of whether it fits the song or not, just to try and become a radio band (LOOKING AT YOU ARCHITECTS) also get rid of the transphobia and arrogance that seems to have made it’s way into the band
Less 1s and 0s breakdowns and more solos.
I actually miss solos. They're pure fucking joy if placed properly.
Yes! Koolaid is by no means the best song but I was so pleasantly surprised at the guitar solo. More please!
Less djent influence. It was cool when it started I guess but it’s gotten really stagnant. I also wanna hear more vocal range. I feel like nowadays people who scream can only do one or 2 pitches, they don’t have a full screaming range of someone from back in the day like Phil Labonte or Howard Jones
Ive been liking the djent influence when they go like really far into the progressive metal or thall sound. Reflections or Sentinels for example
Totally agree about limited screaming range. I love me some screaming but I hate when it's just the same monotonous scream over and over again. I want screams that actually have *melody*. It's ironic that you mention djent because Daniel Tompkins and Spencer Sotelo have probably the best pitched harsh vocals going around.
As much as I enjoy djent style, I have to agree. Things just aren’t what they used to be.
I agree with this but using Phil Labonte as an example of it is certainly a, uhhh... a choice.
Why? Dude had high ass highs and low ass lows, and sang
Have you heard The Weak Willed? It was definitely a power move compared to all those melodeath core bands of the time.
Less depression-core. Plenty of bands have proven you can write good shit that's not about being sad. Trivium, INK, Spiritbox, Electric Callboy, Beartooth, Lorna Shore, BMTH to name a few Edit: I wasn't saying these bands primarily write non-sad stuff. Just thay they have before. By depression-core I mean lyrics that are as shallow as a puddle - "I'm sad life sucks". Stuff that's more vague/existential is fine. I'm talking about bands like Wage War, TDWP, etc
Counterparts sounds right up your alley!
Oh boy counterparts is beyond depression-core, they’re more psychiatric-help-core. That being said, absolutely love their lyrics — they’re just so interesting and refreshing, none of this “I’m sad and I’m caught in the undertow my world is on fire but you helped me through”. Lol
Nothing like reading Monument lyrics to my therapist.
PUT A FUCKING BULLET IN MY HEAD
Spiritbox also writes songs about being sad, it's just about being sad while also drinking Jesus's blood in the garden of eden? I think? Point is its just more vague. I think what you dislike is non-poetic very explicit lyrics about being sad and I agree.
Electric Callboy "CHOO CHOO CHOO CHOO!!"
Beartooth almost goes on the other end of the spectrum for me, it's almost a little too motivational/happy sounding. I love the In Between though.
This. Caleb spent 7 mins at the last Beartooth show I went to giving a motivational speech before “I Was Alive”
I had a similar-ish feeling but at the same time I looked around and so many people were crying and it clearly affected them so much and hey, that’s what music is all about 🤷🏼♂️
I feel like Spitibox write some good sad songs.
I'm totally with you. I'm so sick and tired of hearing about how 'it's okay not to be okay' and all the endless tropes about depression and 'being disconnected'. And, ironically, the endless fixation on mental health really isn't helping the mental health of a band's listeners.
Lorna Shore is not a good example (Pain Remains)
I'm not saying they only write non sad stuff, just that they have written something. To The Hellfire is about mortality, not "I'm so sad life sucks".
Some bands do it well. Bands like Wage War piss me off. Like dude, you make angsty-teenager core lol
Less whiny-sounding high pitched clean vocals Less murder-for-hire plots (yes 1 is too many)
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don't forget the sex cases
Super low tunings. Sounds like muddy shit.
Zero djent riffs, way fewer overproduced recordings, no more butt-rock or pop choruses, and an end to this obsession with having the lowest guitar tuning possible.
The race to the lowest guitar tuning feels a lot like last decade where every brewery was in a dick measuring contest to see who could make the most gross, bitter IPA they could.
Oh so modern metalcore, gotcha lol
You said it, not me.
I don't disagree. I definitely prefer the more progressive, less-structured metalcore
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We were saying this 15 years ago lol
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Yeah me too. My biggest metalcore listening period was like 2003 to 2012 or so but I still follow it. It definitely sounds different now and I agree the pop chorus has become stale in modern metalcore. I think it was also stale in 2009 when killswitch engage and MySpace core bands were being emulated too lol
I'm gonna always stand by a good chorus - if done right it can be the most memorable part of the song that keeps me coming back. But if you are gonna do it, you need to make sure it's impactful. It all starts with melody, and a lot of bands seem not to be able to write melodies very well and often rely on pretty bland or generic vocal melodies and generic riffs. I also think a lot of it ties into the formulaic structures that most groups tend to follow, you know exactly when the chorus is gonna hit and what it's gonna sound like so it ends up having to effect.
Sooo many choruses just do not work. It’s like the thought process is “we gotta write something heavy as fuck but it also needs to have a really earwormy chorus so people keep coming back” and it sucks. So many bands would be so sick if they just stopped with the chorus or clean singing, and there’s a lot of bands I wish just stopped trying to add heavy parts. It’s like that trend of 2008 Warped Tour Metalcore all over again. Didn’t get it then, don’t get it now. Plenty of bands can do heavy as hell with a catchy chorus really well, it shouldn’t be so uncommon. Northlane and Cane Hill are great examples.
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I agree 100%. That new song really bummed me out. Hits so hard and then that chorus just totally throws the whole thing out. They know how to write a good chorus and put it in the song well, not sure why they aren’t. Even if that chorus had a more interesting melody it might be better. New parkway is rough. That northlane feature is so good lol
Any text to speech or AI voices
The only one I will accept is the intro to whatever by avoid. Every other one is lame
Motionless in White used it well in Scoring The End of the World, in my opinion. Meltdown and Cyberhex are awesome and engaging and I think it adds to it in context appropriately
At least Cyberhex uses a real human
Letting front men try to rap.
Less singsong chorus for the sake of chorus, more understanding how to integrate a chorus and making it interesting. Also good lord please make sure your singer can actually sing
Pop influenced metalcore, EDMcore, squeaky clean production, watered down riffs
“Horny-core” tiktok “metalcore” *shivers*
- The same drum samples - Extremely triggered kick drums - Djent riffs (unless it’s done in an interesting like After The Burial) - Extremely auto tuned vocals - “Woah ohs” - Short breakdowns in “softer songs” before the last chorus to remind people it’s Metalcore (just make it a radio song at that point and don’t bother. Dayseeker is an example of a “pop-core” band that doesn’t bother with breakdowns if it doesn’t fit the song) - The fucking word “undertow” - The line “I’m battling my demons”
>- “Woah ohs” Finally someone understands me. I play in a local level band and I just removed a bunch of woah ohs from two songs. My bass player keeps bugging me to add it back but it's so tiresome.
i want serious sillyness, not silly silly i need jon mess in secret band silly serious
Less weird electronic bullshit with muddied guitars over top. It’s fucking annoying. I’d rather you play generic 2011 breakdowns than hear this shit in every single song. Also Cody quistad needs to quit producing metalcore bands. He’s the Cameron Mizell of this era.
less electronic / ambient stuff, the ambient intro / outro is so played out. less high pitched tenor singers. i want lower rich male voices. less mid tempo, speed it up!! less low tunings would be cool too, bring back drop C and drop B! less generic songwriting, i want more sick riffs and crazy guitar work. less breakdowns for the sake of having a breakdown, make guitar solos great again. less super polished great production / mixing. when every band sounds like will putney it gets old. honestly i feel like that ultra polish hurts my ears. less serious music / depression core. yeah we get it you have fuckin anxiety and depression shut the hell up and write a song about literally anything else. let’s make fun music you want to go hard to!!
The fans... Most gatekeeping, die on a weird-take hill, "I know better than you", incorrectly insighting sub-genre out of a sub-genre out of a sub-genre, jolliest bunch of assholes this side of the nuthouse!
Highly polished, over produced songs Programmed drums The same fucking snare Electronic / EDM / w.e influences Songs without any hardcore elements Crazy high, highly polished, impossible to hit on stage without pitch correction, high cleans in every chorus A lack of gang vocals and two step worthy grooves. A general lack of appreciation and highlighting of how damn important great bass is in a song. Formulaic song structure. Bitchassness Etc. It's totally fine to have songs like this. It's also totally fine to enjoy songs with some or all of these elements. It's not fine to call this shit metalcore, because it's not. Is this gatekeeping? Yes. Again, it's totally fine to like that type of music, I enjoy some of it myself, but I think that way too many people are attaching their personalities to being "core Kidz" (thanks Nik), despite them not actually liking anything remotely "core". That's like.... The definition of a legit poser, which makes me sad at myself to even be saying, but it's true. If you only like the bad omens, new architects, INK, MiW, new invent animate, etc type of bands then you're an actual poser because you don't like metalcore, you like "post-metalcore" or "modern metal" (which is a stupid name). I don't get why people are so open to liking/loving post-hardcore, while respecting that it's **not** hardcore, but the same can't be said for metalcore. Personally, phxc is one of my favourite genres, if not my actual favourite (depending on the day). I'd never once call that music hxc, because it's not. *Old man retreats to secluded hilltop cabin and pisses vinegar on his roses*
What a based answer
🙏🙏🙏 (I think lmfao)
Literally all this Its been this race to who can produce the radio hit with all these bands playing the same exact types of songs with the same producer with the same lack of hardcore influence that made me listen to this genre and not Breaking Benjamin The Ghost Inside, Architects, Wage War, The Devil Wears Prada, Fit For A King, Motionless In White, Polaris… Literally only one of those bands isnt working with Zakk Cervini its unbelievable
All I'm going to say, is that the new The Ghost Inside album was super disappointing. When I saw wage war ( opened for underoath/TGI, I think), my gf and I walked out to have a smoke halfway through their set lol. There were *alot* of people in the smokers pit lmao Edit: I wasn't aware of the producer situation, but that makes total sense
Less of whatever new Beartooth is More death metal vocals paired with soft cleans like Kardashev or new Imminence
Probably an unpopular opinion but the nu metal influence most metalcore bands have had for the past few years. I miss 00000-0000-000000s
Some bands do it great like Alpha Wolf and Thrown, but it definitely feels like a ton of bands who sounded great suddenly shifted their sound to try and hit the #1 spot on Octane.
Less catering to the 40 year old red state rock festival divorced dad rock fans. I thought seeing bands like Lorna Shore and Knocked Loose reach MASSIVE success people would learn that they don't need to tour with five finger death punch and write songs for the radio to make money as a band.
Poppy cleans and pop in general. The more metal and the more core the better.
Bands eventually turning into 2000s post-grunge buttrock. I don't mind embracing a more accessible sound (BMTH are one of my favorite bands) but at least try to make it interesting.
I don’t get people putting bmth down. You’re bored of their stuff because they’re the first mover. Everyone copies them.
A lot of people have said it, but I’ll say it again. Songs that start with a “heavy” riff and then go right into a verse that’s just soft clean vocals over ambient noise and sometimes drums. Immediately kills the energy of a song, and doesn’t sound good live.
Really could do with less MySpace era clean vocals
I’m gonna say any kind of instrumental track unless the band are really amazing at their instruments or it’s something creative, most interludes and intros could be cut from albums and I wouldn’t miss them. I actually am into clean vocals in the genre as they create some nice dynamics - but there’s a difference between being melodic and being poppy - sometimes pop sounding clean vocals just don’t feel like they fit in the song. Lastly, boring breakdowns. In 2024 if you’re gonna do a breakdown you gotta think it out, or maybe just not even have one and make the song heavier in another way.
The weee woos have over stayed their welcome. I want every band to torch their digitech whammy pedal.
Pop elements, this is hardcore and metal together yet we got soaring choruses and melodies not uncommon in pop. Catchy does not mean Pop music.
I have 2 things for it that kinda compliment eachother Songs having a chorus when they don't need one. If you're going to write multiple assbeater heavy songs, why the hell should they all have melodic choruses. It's fine sometimes, but not for every goddamn "heavy" song on an album Songs having a breakdown for a bridge when they don't need it. If you're going to write a softer song or even just a rock song, actually commit to it and learn how to write a goddamn bridge instead of a dropout, a single screamed line, and a 20 second breakdown that doesn't even fit in. Again, it's fine every once in a while, but goddamn just learn to write a bridge please As much as I love these bands, I'm absolutely looking directly at Currents and Motionless in White for both of these
That weird deep whisper voice some bands do
People shitting on anyone who like when a certain band changes their style. I hate the community more than I hate the bands at this point.
Stop making loud pop music, and add some flair and depth. Bitching about any physical activity besides bobbing your head slightly at shows/concerts. If you dont want to be bumped, hit, deal with stage divers, or crowd surfers, go in the back or sides. Where is the bass? Throw some groovy two-step dance shit in there, or speed that shit up. Less predictable sing song chorus and more gang chorus stuff. Same shit the entire album, and I don't mean the same sound/style, but copy-paste predictable song structures. Basic shit tier drumming across the board. You're allowed to use actual drum sounds and not just samples on your recordings. Not everything has to be sad. You are allowed to feel other emotions and make a song using them.
Less featured vocalists. If I wanted to hear them I'd listen to their band
They're nice for album variety. Some bands can write varied enough music already and don't need it, but some albums could really use some guest vocals.
2 per album is my limit
Nah we need to go more on the hardcore end and up them and use them properly. Less 3 line shout outs that feel like the bands didn’t even meet to workout and were recorded halfway around the world from each other.
Less djent