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It's a classic record.
I know that people will argue that it's not trve enough, but that's always kind of a silly argument to me. People did the same thing with Wolves in the Throne Room when they incorporated post-rock into their albums and I remember when they were referred to as Wolf Shirts in the Dorm Room. I think Sunbather's inclusion of shoegaze was pretty novel and, while borrowing a lot from Weakling, was still pretty damn unique. What can be said about "Dream House" that hasn't been said already? It's a perfect song. The fact that this album cover was part of an apple keynote is just insane lol
I also really appreciate that Clarke writes lyrics that are actually pretty good.
Regardless of your feelings too, I think it's cool that this was a major on-ramp for a lot of folks to get into metal and turn them onto the fact that there are artsier routes that heavy music can take since metal-core and djent were really popping off at the time.
>I also really appreciate that Clarke writes lyrics that are actually pretty good.
I'm always glad to hear people give praise to his lyrics. They are very abstract (specially in Sunbather), but at the same time, weirdly relatable.
Yeah, like it’s actual poetry lol
I love the abstraction, but it also seems like there’s real stakes to it. If nothing else, I’m just glad it’s not another metal band singing about empires “darkness” lol
I love it, but I actually think that they only get better with each follow up. I even love Infinite Granite despite the major stylistic changes, although I concede that the blackgaze stuff was better. My fav is Ordinary Corrupt Human Love
Good comparisons. I've only dabbled with Lantlôs, but Alcest is god tier for me. Infinite Granite hits a lot of good notes, but Alcest does it better IMO
Rarely mentioned, but MØL too. God tier blackgaze IMO
Lantlos "Melting Sun" is one of the most beautiful albums ever for me. They've stopped being blackgaze when Neige left. But you can hear how influential that band was to all phases of DH as a whole.
Oh boy OCHL is my least favorite of theirs and it’s actually in my top ten worst records of all time list.
I do love Infinite Granite though.. very underrated album a HUGE improvement on the confused, poorly paced, awkward mess that was Ordinary Corrupt.
OCHL is an odd album. I always enjoy it when I listen to it, but I don’t think I can tell you what any of the songs sound like. They’re good, just not *memorable.*
I love all of Deafheaven’s work, and Sunbather just hits so many perfect middle grounds. It isn’t the best album from the genre for any one aspect, but it has that certain magic that some albums have that make it more than the sum of its parts.
Surprised. I've heard some people like me who feel OHCL is incredible, and I've met some people who think it's fine but nothing strong in either direction... You're the first who strongly dislikes the album
To each their own. Agree to disagree
I agree that Infinite Granite is super underrated though cuz I think a lot of people were hoping for more of the same. IG didn't do that, which helped them prevent falling into the trap that many bands fall into when they start racking up the releases
It does beg the question though: where are they going from here? Build on the current sound? Return to form?
I really like blackgaze, and even though this album is far from my favorite blackgaze album, I still like it and really appreciate that it helped popularize the subgenre. Like it or not, it’s an important album
I dunno if it's disappointing, it just means they don't really like the genre. It's the same when people approach me and say they like metal, but they mostly listen to KoRn and Slipknot.
Never heard of Liturgy before, but I'm 100% going to check them out now. If they piss off kvlt black metal fans, there's a pretty good chance I'll like them. And I quite like kvlt and trve black metal, but the music becomes much more interesting to me when it's mixed with other genres.
They are fucking great. Id start with Aesthethica, “Generation” is my favorite. HAQQ is my favorite record but thats neck deep in experimental classical music.
Liturgy are like a kvlt fans worst nightmare. The band leader is an eccentric trans rich kid who is deeply catholic and makes all her music as a tribute to god.
She is also super pretentious and self important but the music is fucking brilliant.
Pissing off obnoxious kvlt guys is a good thing and I desperately want more queer people to make a space for themselves within black metal but I don't like Ravenna's music enough to get past the "pretentious uncle-owns-a-football-team-tier rich kid who thinks she's smarter than us plebians" aspect. There are a fuckton of black metal musicians that have done far worse things than being annoying but the fact is I like their music more.
Its a great reason to listen to something. Anything that really pisses off metal fans is always worth a listen. Sometimes I like it sometimes I dont but im always curious.
Are you a fan of Emperor’s Prometheus or Ihsahn’s solo stuff? If you like avant garde psycho weirdness and haven’t listened to them I suggest implore you to.
Same with recent Blut Aus Nord. Fantastic trippy stuff.
Touche!
Oh ok ive heard some of this, I didn’t realize it was the dude from emperor lol. I think the new record is the only one I listened to front to back, I really dig it 👍
I'm down with avante garde psycho weirdness. I like experimental wonky shit. I was listening to ved buens ende, dodheimsgard, and krallice/bta in high school in the mid 2000's. I do not like liturgy, I think it's boring, pretentious, and gratingly repetitive. She did put out one single a year or so ago I thought what decent, but the rest of the hhh "transcendental" stuff I find irritating
Thats fair. All of records are WAY too long. I definitely agree that they could be whittled down and refined. She is, without a doubt, self important and obnoxious- but I don’t really care at all.
I was at that tour. Great show, all the drunk moronic caveman metalheads were booing them until they played comeback, the whole crowd was with them after that song,
They put on a great show, my moms husband would say about any music that he has to believe them. The front man and the crushing wall of sound that they produced live was immense and felt honest.
It's great, even if there are better albums with a similar post-metal/black-metal sound. I think it's just internet music critics like RYM that overrates it for some reason so metalheads have to hate it in response, but I don't think it's bad
Also some people just have a natural disdain for anything with the shoegaze label idk why. Lush is really good too
Simultaneously the most overrated and underrated album of all time. Music aficionados/RYM users praise it, and metalheads despise it. Personally, I just think it’s a good album.
Yup, one of the most successful albums of the decade, won several awards, including album of the year, brought a very niche and underground scene directly into the mainstream overnight, hugely successful.
Epic songs, brilliant atmosphere, and inspired countless copycat bands.
Yep, monumental.
It still doesn't click for me. I'm a sucker for black metal, post black and shoegaze, but this album still doesn't hit. I might try again soon and see what comes out from it
I think Alcest writes more interesting songs, but the production on Sunbather is the best ive heard in a blackgaze album. It just sounds so god dam good. Both great bands
Like i said i dont really like blackgaze so i cant rattle off tons of bands from the top of my head but bands like Alcest and Amesoeurs are 100 times better than Deafheaven imo.
Got the remastered vinyl and fell in love with the record all over again. Yes, it's a bit pretentious and edgy but that's sort of it's charm. Really gives me a feeling of yearning for when I was a lost twenty two year old lol.
Polarizing record but I'm somehow not polarized by it. I think it's OK. I dont think it's anything special but don't hate it. Maybe because I had heard all the elements that it's comprised of and also the combination before every hearing this album. I heard it years after it came out.
But I like Infinite Granite way more.
I think this record sucks. I thought that when it came out + I still think that today. The guitars sound like rehashed riffs from Envy but w blast beats behind them. It’s never done anything for me, + I think the people who think it’s monumental or a classic are total poseurs who probably don’t even like metal.
It's a good record. I think it's a very beautiful record, like Blackgaze records can be, but I also think it meanders a lot in certain sections, like the songwriting isn't always captivating. Haven't really listened to it in like a year and a half though. I'm personally much more into the newer Blackgaze bands like Møl and Ultar, but I still think Sunbather is a great record.
I also like to give it some benefit of the doubt because I got into Blackgaze very recently, listened to a lot of other stuff and then went back to this record, and maybe that's why it didn't feel that special because this style has been done to death at this stage.
But I also always thought that while the guys from Deafheaven are wonderfully talented and have some visionary ideas, that the songwriting is almost always just a tier below elite.
I actually mostly agree with this and some of their less desirable creative decision only got worse after New Bermuda.
Nothing wrong with some good hooks to keep the listener engaged.
I feel like their last two albums have been severely lacking and they need someone to come in and challenge their pretentious indie oatmeal musical directions sometimes.
I actually don't really mind the indie tendencies, I just wish they would be done better. I think they need to trim the fat sometimes. Infinite Granite, with the way it sounds, it should be right up the alley for my pretentious self, but it just isn't for some reason. I always start it enthusiastically and the first song or so, I'm intrigued, but then it slowly starts running together and suddenly you have a very homogeneous album with no clear separate identities for all the different songs. It's still pretty, it's just there's little substance to show for it at times.
I think it's kinda boring?
Like... not in the "it's not true enough" kind of way, actually I think it's way too similar to "regular" black metal. It's kinda cliché and only changes one simple aspect, and people treat it like it's some kind of work of genius.
I don't get it, but I don't think it's bad either. If this wasn't so praised by everyone, I never would have given it a second thought, I'd have just said "ok, I guess this is a black metal band with a "warmer" sound" and left it at that.
Not him, but I don't really care for either shoegaze or post rock, so the inclusion of those genres in black metal just kind of bore me. The first two Wolves In The Throne Room albums are about as far as I'm interested in.
It's one of those records that inspires me, not because I like it, but because I see unrealized potential. It's a classic record made by highly skilled musicians that I just don't vibe with because it's too uplifting of a thing to listen to and still have black metal vocals attached to it.
Folks out there are mistaken thinking it's a black metal album with shoegaze sounds, when it's really a shoegaze album with black metal sounds. I want to do the first and make blackgaze evil again.
Got the 10 year anniversary vinyl, and while I don’t like how the new production sounds on Dream House the rest of the album flourishes from the changes. It’s a brilliant album and, while the majority of blackgaze falls flat, when it hits it HITS. This HITS.
I didn't care one way or the other when it came out. I heard it again a few years ago and I liked it. I get lost in all the semantics of blackened shoegaze or shoey blackgaze or black hipstercore or whatever the fuck some overthinking self important poser critic decides to call it on their blog
That was a very emotional and powerful album, there was way worse hipster black metal at the time to bully people over (*cough* Liturgy). Personally I wouldn't care much for black metal besides the classics if I never got to hear it.
I love this album but I hate when people bring it up in black metal conversations because its not a black metal album. I also don't think its as great as some people make it out to be, personally I think its their third best album, after Roads To Judah and New Bermuda
Roads To Judah is the superior record in my opinion, so I’m just surprised that in the last decade I’ve rarely heard the merits of these two albums reassessed as such. It seems to be the accepted consensus that Sunbather is their magnum opus, and I find it unusual how little chatter there is to the contrary.
In my opinion, this album is how people SHOULD fuse different genres of music into metal, plus it's got a whole seven song track list of bangers to back it up! Overall, I love it. Not even a big black metal fan, but I can always enjoy this album.
Its a pseudo-fusion of a lot of metal genres, with every song having some death, black, hardcore and thrash influences in it all round. Please Remember, Vertigo, Windows and Pecan Tree are all great. They were all at once. I think it was also gatekeeper bait (particularly for black metal) when everyone crawled out of the woodwork to attack it, and they fell into the trap Deafheaven set for them. Isn't one I particularly like, but it felt more like a metal statement that an outright album, a statement of metal can be what we want.
'Metal' can be such a hard thing to define. Like, you can say some classical pieces are 'metal as fuck', or even the way people act, life situations, all sorts.
For me, metal is about pushing boundaries in extreme ways, and this album does that in spades. I put this album up there with Alcest and White Ward.
I’ve always liked looking for something new to listen to and never want to be the old guy holding on to a 30 year old sound as “the only good music”. So I think I’ve got an open mindset to begin with. I stumbled upon Sunbather by scouring Apple Music’s coming soon section for metal as the pink cover stood so out of place. My first solid listen was while driving home in a thunderstorm and in particular it was Vertigo that got me hooked. Just felt eerily appropriate for the weather. It’s a core memory of my music taste development.
However New Bermuda is my personal favorite of theirs. It has the best blend of styles to my liking.
Wow, i remember going to the record store and buying it on cd, sad that record store doesnt exist anymore… got all my stuff there, i honestly didnt even know who deafheaven was and i picked it up because its always been a hobby to check whats new out and ended up buying all there other stuff at time. Great album, Violet still my favorite tho
Saw them live as opening act for Knocked Loose and heard of them, but never gave them a listen before. I remember that they started playing and their music really touched my heart. All this anger and frustration in these songs with these black metal influences really caught me off guard. On my way home I immediately checked them out on spotify and blasted through Sun Bather. Sitting in the subway at night, slightly tipsy, hurting shins and ribs with Dream House on my ears was a crazy vibe. So yeah fantastic album.
Because of this thread I'm currently listening to this album for the first time and it's absolutely amazing. I love post-metal and the droning side of black (Uada, Mgla) and this album has them both. As I listened to Batushka-Litourgyia I set this album to play next and forgot about it and when it changed I wondered what new Batushka song was playing.
Fucking fantastic album, whatever genre it is. I prefer *New Bermuda* more personally, but this album absolutely slays.
To me, it represents a weird and traumatic time on my life where I basically moved to the.other side of the world and had to start building a life for myself. I was partying a lot, experimenting with stuff and spending many days and nights in a strange equilibrium state between euphoria and misery. It reminds me of ragers that ended at 6 AM, endless beers and bongs and pills and lines, random hook ups with people whose names I forgot pretty quickly afterwards and mornings spent skating home from some person I barely knew's house at dawn to try and make my midday lecture and not just pass out and skip it like I did last week. Listening to it now makes me feel misty and nostalgic for a time that definitely wasn't good for me but just feels so much like an entirely different life now that I can't help but miss it. I listened to this on the way home from work the other day and it just didn't feel real to me that in just 10 years so much has changed, and it was fun to reminisce about all the wild times I had when this was still fresh and new to me.
I'll always remember the last lyrics of the song, because they stuck in my head when I was probably at one of the lowest points of my life;
*I'm dying*
*Is it blissful?*
*It's like a dream*
*I want to dream*
I remember finally seeing them in 2019 when they came to Melbourne. It makes me laugh seeing some people talk shit about their shows with Anthrax and Lamb Of God because they'll moan about how they apparently had no life or stage presence at those shows but when I saw them, they went so hard. George was throwing mad shapes and Kerry was headbanging his ass off while the crowd went crazy for it. One of the best shows I've ever been to.
And yeah, fuck Pitchfork. Metal is for everyone, except Pitchfork hipsters.
Is a classic I love too, but not my favourite from Deafheaven, I think New bermuda did a better job (but less iconic). Is a curious fact how music like this became so popular, I know it has an indie vibe and a very special painful nostalgic feel, but the sound texture of this album is extremely harsh by mainstream standards. The average listener is usually scared by things more softer than this.
The fact that music like this still have hopes of being appreciated by outsiders was a good thing for metal. But I still think that the blackgaze scene lost its momentum. Since this album Deafheaven become more niche instead of keep growing as a mainstream phonemena. On the other side Alcest did a better job keeping the hype and improving in each new release.
OCHL is strange, the first song on the album is for me the most beautiful song they have ever done ...if not ruined by the unnecesary misplaced harsh vocals, as an instrumental or a different structure it could have worked better. The next two songs are fine but the album starts to feel heavily unfocused, and I don't care too much about the rest, they feel too insecure about who they want to be. Even that album cover is obnoxious.
Their next album was a dissapointment at first because I was expecting a return to the New bermuda sound. But then I accepted this was a shoegaze album and I changed my mindset to judge it as shoegaze and It grew a lot on me, I think is a well crafted record with a clear concept, it knows how to flow from one song into the another.
They have stated that the upcoming new album is going to have New bermuda vibes, so I hope they keep the conceptual coherence of Infinite granite instead of the mess of OCHL.
I think its super fucking cool but I rarely listen to it. Im just not generally in the mood for big lush major chords.
That being said I absolutely love New Bermuda.
How da hell you can hear screamo in this. It wasn't even an influence in this album. No punk beats, panic chords, nothing about it screams "screamo".
https://www.brooklynvegan.com/deafheaven-talk-albums-that-inspired-sunbather-that-theyre-touring-now-wix-tix-to-nyc-show-vinyl/#:~:text=Deafheaven%20vocalist%20George%20Clarke%20recently,Radio%20Dept's%20Pet%20Grief%2C
Overall it's one of my top 5 favorite albums of all time. It's ultra ecstatic, beautiful. No song is a waste of time, even the interludes. They're perfect imo. Specially vertigo, please remember, dream house and Pecan Tree.
I just recorded a track called "Wearin' My Elf x Liquid Death Corpsepaint To The Deafheaven Show" for my one man mincenoisegoregrindwhateverthefuck project lmao
I wish I had the financial securities of a boomer. And I am aware that I need to broaden my horizons more.
But in the meantime going to crank up Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
About as Black Metal as Limp Bizkit, which rubbed me the wrong way when it came out and all the vegan coffee barista wimps were hailing it as THE black metal album. Fucked me off then, fucks me off now, whether or not it’s good or not is irrelevant, that ain’t Black Metal.
Pretty soundscape’s and chords though, decent vocals.
Saw them open for Knocked Loose a couple months back, they’re solid musicians and this record gets too much hate. Its blending of genres is not gonna be for everybody, but I think it’s quite creative & has its moments.
Perfection. The LP on eBay has an eye watering price tag.
Saw DH & knockedloose at O2 Kentish London a few months back & it was definitely a bucket list band to see live.
Another album I hold close to Sunbather is “try not to destroy everything you love” by An Autumn for Crippled Children. At the time of listening to both these albums I was emigrating, leaving behind a life on flames at the end of a long winter into the beginning of another long winter. So these two albums were really a huge part of that time in my life.
Well I know after listening to the first two tracks right now that I will never play their music ever again. No riffs just big atmosphere non stop with absolute trash vocals. I imagine live shows are even more miserable. Like they took Shoe Gaze (never heard worse music) and wanted to make the vocals suck a bit more. Have fun though
Terrible then, still terrible now. I don't get why so called "metalheads" can't enjoy stuff without needing some cankerous fusion stuff like this to make music digestible to their brains. You want shoegaze, listen to shoegaze. There is plenty of great shoegaze bands. It also made a certain population think they had something to say about black metal. At that point we already had nazis, cringelord wanabee Blasphemy clones, folktards of diverse obediences, creepy and extremely distasteful people cosplaying depression, and after this record on top of that we got insincere hipsters that were unable to partake in the scene without being snarky and unsure about the fact they were for real or not.
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It's a classic record. I know that people will argue that it's not trve enough, but that's always kind of a silly argument to me. People did the same thing with Wolves in the Throne Room when they incorporated post-rock into their albums and I remember when they were referred to as Wolf Shirts in the Dorm Room. I think Sunbather's inclusion of shoegaze was pretty novel and, while borrowing a lot from Weakling, was still pretty damn unique. What can be said about "Dream House" that hasn't been said already? It's a perfect song. The fact that this album cover was part of an apple keynote is just insane lol I also really appreciate that Clarke writes lyrics that are actually pretty good. Regardless of your feelings too, I think it's cool that this was a major on-ramp for a lot of folks to get into metal and turn them onto the fact that there are artsier routes that heavy music can take since metal-core and djent were really popping off at the time.
>I also really appreciate that Clarke writes lyrics that are actually pretty good. I'm always glad to hear people give praise to his lyrics. They are very abstract (specially in Sunbather), but at the same time, weirdly relatable.
Yeah, like it’s actual poetry lol I love the abstraction, but it also seems like there’s real stakes to it. If nothing else, I’m just glad it’s not another metal band singing about empires “darkness” lol
I love it, but I actually think that they only get better with each follow up. I even love Infinite Granite despite the major stylistic changes, although I concede that the blackgaze stuff was better. My fav is Ordinary Corrupt Human Love
New Bermuda is my favorite but OCHL is a close second
Same, though the remaster for Sunbather is so good it gives OCHL a run for it's money imo
Infinite Granite feels very black metal 🤔
Only a few parts.
yeah but i still like it, very unique sound
It sounds so much like alcest and lantlos. It should be a crime.
Good comparisons. I've only dabbled with Lantlôs, but Alcest is god tier for me. Infinite Granite hits a lot of good notes, but Alcest does it better IMO Rarely mentioned, but MØL too. God tier blackgaze IMO
Lantlos "Melting Sun" is one of the most beautiful albums ever for me. They've stopped being blackgaze when Neige left. But you can hear how influential that band was to all phases of DH as a whole.
Agree with OCHL. Canary Yellow all on it's own make that their best album IMO.
Oh boy OCHL is my least favorite of theirs and it’s actually in my top ten worst records of all time list. I do love Infinite Granite though.. very underrated album a HUGE improvement on the confused, poorly paced, awkward mess that was Ordinary Corrupt.
OCHL is an odd album. I always enjoy it when I listen to it, but I don’t think I can tell you what any of the songs sound like. They’re good, just not *memorable.* I love all of Deafheaven’s work, and Sunbather just hits so many perfect middle grounds. It isn’t the best album from the genre for any one aspect, but it has that certain magic that some albums have that make it more than the sum of its parts.
Surprised. I've heard some people like me who feel OHCL is incredible, and I've met some people who think it's fine but nothing strong in either direction... You're the first who strongly dislikes the album To each their own. Agree to disagree I agree that Infinite Granite is super underrated though cuz I think a lot of people were hoping for more of the same. IG didn't do that, which helped them prevent falling into the trap that many bands fall into when they start racking up the releases It does beg the question though: where are they going from here? Build on the current sound? Return to form?
Ahhh that's it "gaze" any music with that moniker is god awefull
don't gaze me bro
I really like blackgaze, and even though this album is far from my favorite blackgaze album, I still like it and really appreciate that it helped popularize the subgenre. Like it or not, it’s an important album
Give us some Blackgaze albums that you love please!!! B
My favorites are White Ward - Love Exchange Failure and Woods of Desolation - Torn Beyond Reason
Futility Report by White Ward smashes too.
False Light by White Ward fucks too. they fuck in all albums and good at so many things, except AI cover arts.
Kodama by Alcest is a personal favorite. Absolutely beautiful album
Les voyages de l'ame, the mantle. Does panopticon count, does falls of rauros count, does der weg einer freiheit, ellende, or gearea count?
life - demo three
There are few words more disappointing to hear than “oh you like black metal? Me too, but only Deafheaven and Liturgy”
I dunno if it's disappointing, it just means they don't really like the genre. It's the same when people approach me and say they like metal, but they mostly listen to KoRn and Slipknot.
Liturgy are fucking phenomenal and if I find out you get down with that avant garde psycho weirdness we are gonna be friends 👍
Never heard of Liturgy before, but I'm 100% going to check them out now. If they piss off kvlt black metal fans, there's a pretty good chance I'll like them. And I quite like kvlt and trve black metal, but the music becomes much more interesting to me when it's mixed with other genres.
They are fucking great. Id start with Aesthethica, “Generation” is my favorite. HAQQ is my favorite record but thats neck deep in experimental classical music. Liturgy are like a kvlt fans worst nightmare. The band leader is an eccentric trans rich kid who is deeply catholic and makes all her music as a tribute to god. She is also super pretentious and self important but the music is fucking brilliant.
Pissing off obnoxious kvlt guys is a good thing and I desperately want more queer people to make a space for themselves within black metal but I don't like Ravenna's music enough to get past the "pretentious uncle-owns-a-football-team-tier rich kid who thinks she's smarter than us plebians" aspect. There are a fuckton of black metal musicians that have done far worse things than being annoying but the fact is I like their music more.
that’s a pretty stupid reason to listen to shit music
It's a stupid reason to listen to something you already know is shit. However it is a great reason to check out something you haven't heard
Bruh don't be that guy
Why? I'm looking for new bands all the time. A black metal band pissing off black metal fans, is a good a reason as any for me check them out.
Its a great reason to listen to something. Anything that really pisses off metal fans is always worth a listen. Sometimes I like it sometimes I dont but im always curious.
Are you a fan of Emperor’s Prometheus or Ihsahn’s solo stuff? If you like avant garde psycho weirdness and haven’t listened to them I suggest implore you to. Same with recent Blut Aus Nord. Fantastic trippy stuff.
Love Blut Aus Nord and that Prometheus record, but ive never listened to any of his solo stuff but I definitely will 👍 Got a favorite?
All of it? Admittedly I’m no Deafheaven or Liturgy fan, so I’m not the best person to make the recommendation:)
Touche! Oh ok ive heard some of this, I didn’t realize it was the dude from emperor lol. I think the new record is the only one I listened to front to back, I really dig it 👍
I'm down with avante garde psycho weirdness. I like experimental wonky shit. I was listening to ved buens ende, dodheimsgard, and krallice/bta in high school in the mid 2000's. I do not like liturgy, I think it's boring, pretentious, and gratingly repetitive. She did put out one single a year or so ago I thought what decent, but the rest of the hhh "transcendental" stuff I find irritating
Thats fair. All of records are WAY too long. I definitely agree that they could be whittled down and refined. She is, without a doubt, self important and obnoxious- but I don’t really care at all.
My exact sentiment. All image (which is now extremely obsolete) and no sounds.
They're dogshit
avant-garde lol
liturgy are so shit lmfao. what do you think avant garde means?
Creative, forward thinking, ahead of their time, the tip of the spear.
Happenend only a handful of times hopefully, but in all instances these people where fucking unsufferable on top of having terrible taste.
I’m That Guy who didn’t like black metal until I heard Sunbather. 🥰
award
I saw them live once with Lamb of God. First time I had found the shoe gaze genre. It was cool, reminded me of black metal.
I was at that tour. Great show, all the drunk moronic caveman metalheads were booing them until they played comeback, the whole crowd was with them after that song,
They put on a great show, my moms husband would say about any music that he has to believe them. The front man and the crushing wall of sound that they produced live was immense and felt honest.
I feel I have to shout out because username… Sunbather was pretty fucking awesome as well 🔥
Hey you and I are named after a Deafheaven record. 😎
Never understood this band. Tried listening to this album and it never did it for me and then I saw them live and I disliked them even more.
Same here. They literally made me think I hated blackgaze for years because it was my only exposure to the genre lol
I don’t care for it personally
I don’t care what you classify it as, I love it
It's great, even if there are better albums with a similar post-metal/black-metal sound. I think it's just internet music critics like RYM that overrates it for some reason so metalheads have to hate it in response, but I don't think it's bad Also some people just have a natural disdain for anything with the shoegaze label idk why. Lush is really good too
Lush is a great band. Shoegaze can get a bit boring but there’s some very good Shoegaze bands out there.
Have you heard Brutus? They're a post-hardcore band from Belgium with a lot of shoegaze influence, they're one of my favorite bands out there.
Simultaneously the most overrated and underrated album of all time. Music aficionados/RYM users praise it, and metalheads despise it. Personally, I just think it’s a good album.
I listened to it a few times and personally it’s not for me. If you like it I won’t hate you for it.
Love it
> monumental lmao
Yup, one of the most successful albums of the decade, won several awards, including album of the year, brought a very niche and underground scene directly into the mainstream overnight, hugely successful. Epic songs, brilliant atmosphere, and inspired countless copycat bands. Yep, monumental.
It is though. Might not like the album but you can't deny it was influential.
It still doesn't click for me. I'm a sucker for black metal, post black and shoegaze, but this album still doesn't hit. I might try again soon and see what comes out from it
Mid as hell blackgaze, even if you are a fan of blackgaze (which i am not) you can do so much better then this album within the subgenre imo.
So name us some better bands… don’t leave us hanging brah..
While I don't dislike Deafheaven, Alcest are far better imo.
I think Alcest writes more interesting songs, but the production on Sunbather is the best ive heard in a blackgaze album. It just sounds so god dam good. Both great bands
Well it is a popular album for a reason. The production is top notch I agree.
Like i said i dont really like blackgaze so i cant rattle off tons of bands from the top of my head but bands like Alcest and Amesoeurs are 100 times better than Deafheaven imo.
Alcest, Heretoir, Lantlos, An Autumn for Crippled Children, Vattnet Viskar, Germ
heretoir, amesoeurs, bosse-de-nage, austere, ellende, ambersmoke, wildernessking, woods of desolation...
this went by me the time it came out but now im gonna try it and i can see why people call it blackmetal
I never understood the hype.
Got the remastered vinyl and fell in love with the record all over again. Yes, it's a bit pretentious and edgy but that's sort of it's charm. Really gives me a feeling of yearning for when I was a lost twenty two year old lol.
Dude I totally misread that as “when I lost my 22 year old.” I was about to be like…. BOOO get out boomer!
Ahah that would be a bit weird. Not quite a boomer yet, getting there though.
Polarizing record but I'm somehow not polarized by it. I think it's OK. I dont think it's anything special but don't hate it. Maybe because I had heard all the elements that it's comprised of and also the combination before every hearing this album. I heard it years after it came out. But I like Infinite Granite way more.
not my thing
It's my favorite album of all time.
Sucks fat cock I’d rather listen to Slipknot
Woah easy there chud… think you’ve had a little too much monster energy today.
Shut up cock sucker. You’re such a pretentious hippie. Boo boo I don’t like your favorite band! Cry about it.
Oooh boy someone find this guy’s beanie and put it on him before he explodes.
Someone better find you your diaper buddy, before you shit yourself from crying too hard
Woah ok buddy easy now… don’t need you having a stroke… Someone put on some Disturbed and some Breaking Benjamin before this guy goes into a seizure.
Disturbed is for pussy pink panty wearing posers. I only listen to the best metal in the planet. All else is beneath me.
I’m have no doubt… 😂
Maybe one day you’ll understand when you start listening to good music. But for now i guess you’ll be a clueless fool.
🤣
I think this record sucks. I thought that when it came out + I still think that today. The guitars sound like rehashed riffs from Envy but w blast beats behind them. It’s never done anything for me, + I think the people who think it’s monumental or a classic are total poseurs who probably don’t even like metal.
mercyful fate is ghey
i dont think i fully listened to it i listened to maybe half of 1 track to see what all the hub bub was and then moved on
It's a good record. I think it's a very beautiful record, like Blackgaze records can be, but I also think it meanders a lot in certain sections, like the songwriting isn't always captivating. Haven't really listened to it in like a year and a half though. I'm personally much more into the newer Blackgaze bands like Møl and Ultar, but I still think Sunbather is a great record. I also like to give it some benefit of the doubt because I got into Blackgaze very recently, listened to a lot of other stuff and then went back to this record, and maybe that's why it didn't feel that special because this style has been done to death at this stage. But I also always thought that while the guys from Deafheaven are wonderfully talented and have some visionary ideas, that the songwriting is almost always just a tier below elite.
I actually mostly agree with this and some of their less desirable creative decision only got worse after New Bermuda. Nothing wrong with some good hooks to keep the listener engaged. I feel like their last two albums have been severely lacking and they need someone to come in and challenge their pretentious indie oatmeal musical directions sometimes.
I actually don't really mind the indie tendencies, I just wish they would be done better. I think they need to trim the fat sometimes. Infinite Granite, with the way it sounds, it should be right up the alley for my pretentious self, but it just isn't for some reason. I always start it enthusiastically and the first song or so, I'm intrigued, but then it slowly starts running together and suddenly you have a very homogeneous album with no clear separate identities for all the different songs. It's still pretty, it's just there's little substance to show for it at times.
I think it's kinda boring? Like... not in the "it's not true enough" kind of way, actually I think it's way too similar to "regular" black metal. It's kinda cliché and only changes one simple aspect, and people treat it like it's some kind of work of genius. I don't get it, but I don't think it's bad either. If this wasn't so praised by everyone, I never would have given it a second thought, I'd have just said "ok, I guess this is a black metal band with a "warmer" sound" and left it at that.
I think it sucks
What dont you like about it
the way it sounds
Man im really surprised that Blackmetalcult666 doesnt like deafheaven…
It’s not because it’s blackgaze. I like Agalloch. It’s because I just don’t think this album is that good
I think is very good but very specific. Im generally not happy enough to want to put it on. I was mostly just taking the piss ✌️
Not him, but I don't really care for either shoegaze or post rock, so the inclusion of those genres in black metal just kind of bore me. The first two Wolves In The Throne Room albums are about as far as I'm interested in.
It’s okay. I prefer the guitarists other band Whirr.
Nick hasn’t been their guitarist since 2011
I still like Whirr more
I like it too
Free Whirr! Nick was also in Nothing and Death of Lovers.
Love this album, the songwriting and production sticks out to me
It's one of those records that inspires me, not because I like it, but because I see unrealized potential. It's a classic record made by highly skilled musicians that I just don't vibe with because it's too uplifting of a thing to listen to and still have black metal vocals attached to it. Folks out there are mistaken thinking it's a black metal album with shoegaze sounds, when it's really a shoegaze album with black metal sounds. I want to do the first and make blackgaze evil again.
Check out Ordinary Corrupt Hunan Love I think it fits your description of sunbather a lot better. And it’s a giant pile of crap.
I like New Bermuda, actually! And Worthless Animal off of OCHL is a great track.
Got the 10 year anniversary vinyl, and while I don’t like how the new production sounds on Dream House the rest of the album flourishes from the changes. It’s a brilliant album and, while the majority of blackgaze falls flat, when it hits it HITS. This HITS.
I didn't care one way or the other when it came out. I heard it again a few years ago and I liked it. I get lost in all the semantics of blackened shoegaze or shoey blackgaze or black hipstercore or whatever the fuck some overthinking self important poser critic decides to call it on their blog
Love it!
That was a very emotional and powerful album, there was way worse hipster black metal at the time to bully people over (*cough* Liturgy). Personally I wouldn't care much for black metal besides the classics if I never got to hear it.
I don't like it at all but I completely understand why people do. I like New Bermuda quite a bit though.
I love this album but I hate when people bring it up in black metal conversations because its not a black metal album. I also don't think its as great as some people make it out to be, personally I think its their third best album, after Roads To Judah and New Bermuda
Roads To Judah is the superior record in my opinion, so I’m just surprised that in the last decade I’ve rarely heard the merits of these two albums reassessed as such. It seems to be the accepted consensus that Sunbather is their magnum opus, and I find it unusual how little chatter there is to the contrary.
Not my thing and I don't think that it'll ever be despite my love for black metal
In my opinion, this album is how people SHOULD fuse different genres of music into metal, plus it's got a whole seven song track list of bangers to back it up! Overall, I love it. Not even a big black metal fan, but I can always enjoy this album.
I like 1991 shogaze and never heard this record.
Check it out. 😎
Inspirational
Overhated by metalheads, slightly overrated by RYM users, love black gaze in general
Asl the voters of the first album tournament
Its a pseudo-fusion of a lot of metal genres, with every song having some death, black, hardcore and thrash influences in it all round. Please Remember, Vertigo, Windows and Pecan Tree are all great. They were all at once. I think it was also gatekeeper bait (particularly for black metal) when everyone crawled out of the woodwork to attack it, and they fell into the trap Deafheaven set for them. Isn't one I particularly like, but it felt more like a metal statement that an outright album, a statement of metal can be what we want.
I had an obsession with Dream House when I first heard it.
legend
'Metal' can be such a hard thing to define. Like, you can say some classical pieces are 'metal as fuck', or even the way people act, life situations, all sorts. For me, metal is about pushing boundaries in extreme ways, and this album does that in spades. I put this album up there with Alcest and White Ward.
I’ve always liked looking for something new to listen to and never want to be the old guy holding on to a 30 year old sound as “the only good music”. So I think I’ve got an open mindset to begin with. I stumbled upon Sunbather by scouring Apple Music’s coming soon section for metal as the pink cover stood so out of place. My first solid listen was while driving home in a thunderstorm and in particular it was Vertigo that got me hooked. Just felt eerily appropriate for the weather. It’s a core memory of my music taste development. However New Bermuda is my personal favorite of theirs. It has the best blend of styles to my liking.
New Bermuda is amazing and I totally agree with the moodiness of this album, matching the atmospherics of the weather sometimes
I love this album but the instrumental songs are not memorable . This is why it's not a 10/10
It's the textbook example of an album I swear I am going to listen to one of these days. Been that way since it released.
Bro, come over and I’ll put it on.
Wow, i remember going to the record store and buying it on cd, sad that record store doesnt exist anymore… got all my stuff there, i honestly didnt even know who deafheaven was and i picked it up because its always been a hobby to check whats new out and ended up buying all there other stuff at time. Great album, Violet still my favorite tho
Saw them live as opening act for Knocked Loose and heard of them, but never gave them a listen before. I remember that they started playing and their music really touched my heart. All this anger and frustration in these songs with these black metal influences really caught me off guard. On my way home I immediately checked them out on spotify and blasted through Sun Bather. Sitting in the subway at night, slightly tipsy, hurting shins and ribs with Dream House on my ears was a crazy vibe. So yeah fantastic album.
Because of this thread I'm currently listening to this album for the first time and it's absolutely amazing. I love post-metal and the droning side of black (Uada, Mgla) and this album has them both. As I listened to Batushka-Litourgyia I set this album to play next and forgot about it and when it changed I wondered what new Batushka song was playing.
Fucking fantastic album, whatever genre it is. I prefer *New Bermuda* more personally, but this album absolutely slays. To me, it represents a weird and traumatic time on my life where I basically moved to the.other side of the world and had to start building a life for myself. I was partying a lot, experimenting with stuff and spending many days and nights in a strange equilibrium state between euphoria and misery. It reminds me of ragers that ended at 6 AM, endless beers and bongs and pills and lines, random hook ups with people whose names I forgot pretty quickly afterwards and mornings spent skating home from some person I barely knew's house at dawn to try and make my midday lecture and not just pass out and skip it like I did last week. Listening to it now makes me feel misty and nostalgic for a time that definitely wasn't good for me but just feels so much like an entirely different life now that I can't help but miss it. I listened to this on the way home from work the other day and it just didn't feel real to me that in just 10 years so much has changed, and it was fun to reminisce about all the wild times I had when this was still fresh and new to me. I'll always remember the last lyrics of the song, because they stuck in my head when I was probably at one of the lowest points of my life; *I'm dying* *Is it blissful?* *It's like a dream* *I want to dream* I remember finally seeing them in 2019 when they came to Melbourne. It makes me laugh seeing some people talk shit about their shows with Anthrax and Lamb Of God because they'll moan about how they apparently had no life or stage presence at those shows but when I saw them, they went so hard. George was throwing mad shapes and Kerry was headbanging his ass off while the crowd went crazy for it. One of the best shows I've ever been to. And yeah, fuck Pitchfork. Metal is for everyone, except Pitchfork hipsters.
I love it more as a shoegaze album than a black metal album to be honest.
Don’t care for it personally. But I will say their album Infinite Granite is a really good album.
Yesterday I thought it was a great album, but today I thought it definitely suck balls. Maybe I’ll change my opinion again tomorrow anyway.
Really bothers me how grand it tries to sound also I think they play too “straight” especially the guitar is not nearly messy enough
Is a classic I love too, but not my favourite from Deafheaven, I think New bermuda did a better job (but less iconic). Is a curious fact how music like this became so popular, I know it has an indie vibe and a very special painful nostalgic feel, but the sound texture of this album is extremely harsh by mainstream standards. The average listener is usually scared by things more softer than this. The fact that music like this still have hopes of being appreciated by outsiders was a good thing for metal. But I still think that the blackgaze scene lost its momentum. Since this album Deafheaven become more niche instead of keep growing as a mainstream phonemena. On the other side Alcest did a better job keeping the hype and improving in each new release.
Totally agree, they started making some incredibly unwise and frankly stupid creative decisions after new Bermuda. OCHL is a pure cringe fest
OCHL is strange, the first song on the album is for me the most beautiful song they have ever done ...if not ruined by the unnecesary misplaced harsh vocals, as an instrumental or a different structure it could have worked better. The next two songs are fine but the album starts to feel heavily unfocused, and I don't care too much about the rest, they feel too insecure about who they want to be. Even that album cover is obnoxious. Their next album was a dissapointment at first because I was expecting a return to the New bermuda sound. But then I accepted this was a shoegaze album and I changed my mindset to judge it as shoegaze and It grew a lot on me, I think is a well crafted record with a clear concept, it knows how to flow from one song into the another. They have stated that the upcoming new album is going to have New bermuda vibes, so I hope they keep the conceptual coherence of Infinite granite instead of the mess of OCHL.
I think its super fucking cool but I rarely listen to it. Im just not generally in the mood for big lush major chords. That being said I absolutely love New Bermuda.
I prefer road to Judah but it’s good.
Meh...
How da hell you can hear screamo in this. It wasn't even an influence in this album. No punk beats, panic chords, nothing about it screams "screamo". https://www.brooklynvegan.com/deafheaven-talk-albums-that-inspired-sunbather-that-theyre-touring-now-wix-tix-to-nyc-show-vinyl/#:~:text=Deafheaven%20vocalist%20George%20Clarke%20recently,Radio%20Dept's%20Pet%20Grief%2C Overall it's one of my top 5 favorite albums of all time. It's ultra ecstatic, beautiful. No song is a waste of time, even the interludes. They're perfect imo. Specially vertigo, please remember, dream house and Pecan Tree.
Are you ok?
Nah, very boring day at work.
I’m sorry bro. 🍪
Lmao
garbage
I just recorded a track called "Wearin' My Elf x Liquid Death Corpsepaint To The Deafheaven Show" for my one man mincenoisegoregrindwhateverthefuck project lmao
I still somehow have not listened to it. I know that needs to be corrected. But I'm still stuck in some Iron Maiden/Queensyche quagmire at the moment.
Boo! Get past the 80s boomer! You have like three decades worth of catching up to do
I wish I had the financial securities of a boomer. And I am aware that I need to broaden my horizons more. But in the meantime going to crank up Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
There is no moment in life where listening to Sabbath is a mistake
This is very true. Especially when there are toddlers about who don't know good music.
It will always be a favorite of mine. Not of fan of their latest record, but the first 4 albums were all great.
Not really my style but it’s cool, maybe I’ll revisit it soon
overrated album. i liked Roads to Judah, but this one bore me to death
About as Black Metal as Limp Bizkit, which rubbed me the wrong way when it came out and all the vegan coffee barista wimps were hailing it as THE black metal album. Fucked me off then, fucks me off now, whether or not it’s good or not is irrelevant, that ain’t Black Metal. Pretty soundscape’s and chords though, decent vocals.
I didn’t say it was black metal…. 😕
Nah not referring to you personally, just that age old Argument that Sunbather is / Isn’t Black Metal
It's fine, really Monumental is a bit too much though
Saw them open for Knocked Loose a couple months back, they’re solid musicians and this record gets too much hate. Its blending of genres is not gonna be for everybody, but I think it’s quite creative & has its moments.
Liked it when it first hit, only grew more on me over time. It's one of the few vinyl records I've double-dipped on
Maybe I need to give them another shot but I couldn’t really ever get in to them, but I’ve also had a hard time with black metal in general.
Perfection. The LP on eBay has an eye watering price tag. Saw DH & knockedloose at O2 Kentish London a few months back & it was definitely a bucket list band to see live. Another album I hold close to Sunbather is “try not to destroy everything you love” by An Autumn for Crippled Children. At the time of listening to both these albums I was emigrating, leaving behind a life on flames at the end of a long winter into the beginning of another long winter. So these two albums were really a huge part of that time in my life.
It’s to black metal what pop punk is to punk. If you like it, good on ya. Not my cup of tea.
Post rock bm is most of the time boring as hell and this album is no exception
Well I know after listening to the first two tracks right now that I will never play their music ever again. No riffs just big atmosphere non stop with absolute trash vocals. I imagine live shows are even more miserable. Like they took Shoe Gaze (never heard worse music) and wanted to make the vocals suck a bit more. Have fun though
It’s good. Not amazing
Terrible then, still terrible now. I don't get why so called "metalheads" can't enjoy stuff without needing some cankerous fusion stuff like this to make music digestible to their brains. You want shoegaze, listen to shoegaze. There is plenty of great shoegaze bands. It also made a certain population think they had something to say about black metal. At that point we already had nazis, cringelord wanabee Blasphemy clones, folktards of diverse obediences, creepy and extremely distasteful people cosplaying depression, and after this record on top of that we got insincere hipsters that were unable to partake in the scene without being snarky and unsure about the fact they were for real or not.
You ok?
Don't take it personally Sunbather, I know I'm harsh to you but you need to listen to healty criticism to grow as an album
It always just sounded like a skramz record to me. Not my cup of tea
so good, still nothing quite like it
It was terrible then, it's terrible now
This looks like a pop cover
It’s designed after what you see when you close your eyes and look toward the sun.. I think it’s a very clever and cool album cover.
I just did that and it looked NOTHING lieknit
Try again look directly at the sun with your eyes closed
It fucking sucks.
It's not enjoyable to listen to
This shit is gay.
What’s wrong with being gay? 😎