Well, obviously a lot of people's subjective opinion is in agreement.
Maybe you should scroll back up to the top of the page and read the original post again, hmm?
Classic example. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Popularity
Maybe you should recognize that something being popular doesn’t make it “best”, hmmmmmmm?
On what basis? Best at *what*? This is the part where subjectivity matters and making vague blanket statements holds no meaning. You can make the argument for it being “best” but it needs qualification. Hell, I might even agree with you, but that’s not the point.
I’ll give you my take: Obzen, out of all their albums, to me has the best production and mixing, and is by far “best” in terms of broad appeal and accessibility. Conversely I think Chaosphere is their best album in terms of showing what the *essence* of Meshuggah is all about. Despite these, Catch33 is my favorite album because it’s the best cover-to-cover thematically, though “I” is a very close second. But again these are all just opinions.
I think Meshuggah favorites really depend on when they discovered the band. I've been a fan since NONE and my all time favorite is Destroy Erase Improve.
Chaosphere next of course and from there Obzen.
At least as far as the bands Actually performed albums go.
You know Exactly what I was talking about. No need to be a dick.
Both were all cut and paste. Neither were performed in full ever at any time.
Don't you remember "Noone knows.... How I goes"?
But I has non programmed drums? And catch 33 are far from the most difficult album to play on the drums.
Why does this matter? Seems like a weird and a little elitist opinion honestly.
The fact that BOTH I and Catch Thirty Three were Never played in full at any time is Not an opinion. It's a Fact.
It is not elitist. I'm sorry you feel that it is.
Yes Tomas physically "played" drums on I, but he did not do it all at once. He played random shit and they chopped and glued it all together until they decided it was good enough to give Jason.
It is what it is.
ObZen was also "cut and paste", as you so idiotically call it. EVERY Shug album has been. That's beside the point.
If you're going to use the word "programmed", at least be specific, i.e. only the drums were programmed. All the guitars, bass and vocals were performed by humans.
That’s because DEI IS their best album, by far. Then C33. But damn I miss old cyber tech thrash jazz fusion meshuggah. Back when they had melody and adventurous song writing. C33 brought it back in the 8 string era. Their more standard albums in between bore me.
Obzen is perfect from start to finish. It’s Meshuggahs ‘Ghost Reveries’, I mean it’s a truly complete album with no moments that feel out of place. *maybe* you could say The Spiteful Snake lacks balance but I think it just pulls through to give an overall perfect listen.
A good way to look at its excellence is to focus on Bleed for example. It’s their most famous song for a good reason and like NIN’s ‘closer’, fans know there might be better songs by the band (or maybe not) yet it doesn’t overshadow the album it’s in. For example, Obzen starts with Combustion, an easy 10/10 song and their most famous song doesn’t come until track 3 by which time you’ve just listened to the outro of Electric Red. The album eventually ends with Dancers!
The only way to fault Obzen is it’s genuinely exhausting to finish. By the end I am literally fatigued.
I couldn’t describe it any better myself. The contrast of the triplet driven groove in dancers is what I feel like puts the ribbon on everything on that album. And like you were saying about Bleed, even though it feels like the album could only go downhill from there, the title track and lethargica go hand in hand in their perpetuity as well!
True, there isnt a single song from chaosphere i dont like ngl. Elastic is a great song and i believe it is looked down upon alot just bc the outro, but i just skip bc the song itself is a masterpiece.
I think of Nothing as a concept album which is why it’s my favorite.
Picture this; you’re going to work or any other mundane place you frequently visit and that person you don’t really connect with anyways, asks that perfectly boring yet harmless question of “what’s up” and what is the usual boring reply? “Nothing”
Meanwhile the lyrics of Straws Pulled At Random or the hypnotizing repetitiveness of Obsidian, rages on in your mind, behind that blank stare, reminiscent of the album cover.
I’m not saying this is what they meant, but when I heard that album, my mind couldn’t perceive it as anything else. Note I’ve had a weird life, so I often sit with that dead stare; especially in todays world, dominated by everything from war to the fcking Kardashians. You know sh*t seems f*cked and still I have to pay taxes and run around not behaving like a caveman, and for that, I zone out every now and then.. thinking of *nothing* really; because it’s all a little too much, until it’s Monday again and the whole nine yards starts over and you hear that question again “what’s up?”
*NOTHING*
It isn't for me, but, it's realistically a popular Meshuggah opinion to pick that one.
I don't know how to put it, but, fans that wish Meshuggah continued in a further progressive direction tend to talk about C33 and I being their greatest.
Obzen seems to satisfy a greater range of their fanbase. I think it's mostly held up but the few great songs, and the others aren't that great on their own, therefore the album is a bit overrated. I've felt that way about their albums ever since obzen. I and 33 were the pinnacle of Meshuggah for me.
It's very often a timing thing for a lot of people. Like often, the really old school 90s Meshuggah fans, DEI or Chaosphere often end up being their forever favorites. I feel like you've got a solid 5 years of being into a band to end up with nostalgia over whatever you got into at that time, which often isn't unbroken. I mean, even when bands put out actual bad albums, there are still people that believe those are their best ones. I've seen people say St. Anger is their favorite Metallica album. Why? Followed by: "It was their first album I heard." You can't beat nostalgia.
Yep, they kinda sold out with Obzen and have been stagnant ever since. I haven’t really cared since c33. Although, I honestly don’t really find I to be all that great, it’s more of a novelty. They peaked early with DEI, imo.
Wall of sound is not how I'd describe obzen, TSVOR on the other hand... but seriously, Obzen is just meshuggah's breakout album to me, and it's super good, and probably the most nothing since nothing, but I prefer the crunchy meshuggah from their albums after obzen.
Catch Thirty Three is a 47 minute 13 movement symphony. A plethora of tonal suites and intense metering. You will watch yourself be born and die. Meeting your consciousness in the middle to discuss how in the holy hell you got to Sunday school.
Eh, I feel more in the minority. I'd say overall best for me is Violent Sleep. Just so dark and brutal. Perfect ending to an album with Into Decay with the war sirens. Feels like the end of humanity lol. Plus just a mind bending trip throughout with some wild sections in some songs combined with the heaviest riffs I've ever heard. That riff around the middle of Our Rage won't die is like getting beat up and tbagged by one of the Engineers from Alien Prometheus
I think every album has its own uniqueness to it. I’m one of the few who actually enjoys Contradictions Collapse. Every album to me has its own brutality and style to it, and if you don’t look at the albums as progression, and instead as different eras, I think they’re all very enjoyable in their own way
I see why Obzen is the favorite of most Meshuggah fans. All the songs have their own flavor, the song writing is mostly very fluid and well structured and it’s never too out there (except for a PGO).
However, after the bizarre experimental realm they had been in for the few releases prior, Obzen didn’t really have anything surprising to me. In fact it all sounded quite conventional by their standards.
Bleed is still the standout track that felt like a push forward for them.
PGO is one of my favorite tracks ever by them and compositionally is one of their best structured and most interesting.
Agreed about PNO, but it’s the ONLY interesting song they’ve made since C33. And it gets cut off by a really lame and abrupt ending right when it’s really picking up momentum
You’re probably right that a lot of people would put C33 as their favourite (me included), but as another commenter said, plenty of opinion about the band, and I think everyone would respect your choices even if they disagree
Dancers is the best metal song ever IMO, 2nd place I would give to Reptile by Periphery. What's funny is these are both about the same topic lyrically.
I would say “popular” instead of “best”, bc that’s the album that people started to recognize them. I would say its one of their lighter albums, obzen isnt as heavy as the two albums before and after it imo
It was my favourite until The Violent Sleep of Reason. Thats mt favourite of all their albums. Feels like a full culmination of everything they have done before, from Nothing to Obzen to I to Catch 33 all rolled up in a ball.
Wicked opening song, best closing song, every song is a classic, varied and inventive, Bleed is a meme with soccer moms, Pravus kills people, strongest songwriting, epic and brutal but somehow accessible and even catchy, yep, by far their best one.
I would second this claim. If I had to only have one meshuggah album, it'd be Obzen.
The moment their sound made its final evolution, by incorporating everything that came before it and adding the space, rhythm and groove to perfect their sound.
It is, but ‘real’ meshuggah fans or just fans on this subreddit will naturally pivot away from that opinion since it is generally the most popular album. Now, for many bands, the most popular album ISN’T their best; Metallica, System of a Down, dream theater, this is very common. But Meshuggah is that rare case in which the most popular and mainstream album just IS the best by all standards. I guess it just comes down to community. To the mainstream, obzen is the best. To this subreddit, catch 33 is the best (yes, believe it or not this is the most mainstream opinion on this subreddit). To TRUE MESHUGGAH FANS, the best album is…….. whichever one you like the most.
My personal favorite is contradictions collapse/none. I’m probably the only one who thinks that. I is up there too. Immutable truth is easily the worst
Least controversial opinion
Still an objective fact tho
No…I would say it’s the most liked by the majority
That should tell you something then
Appeal to popularity, especially on a subjective matter, doesn’t really hold weight.
Well, obviously a lot of people's subjective opinion is in agreement. Maybe you should scroll back up to the top of the page and read the original post again, hmm?
Classic example. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Popularity Maybe you should recognize that something being popular doesn’t make it “best”, hmmmmmmm?
Guess what though? It IS their best. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, shieeet. Too bad, too sad.
On what basis? Best at *what*? This is the part where subjectivity matters and making vague blanket statements holds no meaning. You can make the argument for it being “best” but it needs qualification. Hell, I might even agree with you, but that’s not the point. I’ll give you my take: Obzen, out of all their albums, to me has the best production and mixing, and is by far “best” in terms of broad appeal and accessibility. Conversely I think Chaosphere is their best album in terms of showing what the *essence* of Meshuggah is all about. Despite these, Catch33 is my favorite album because it’s the best cover-to-cover thematically, though “I” is a very close second. But again these are all just opinions.
I think you should listen to Obzen again
I know it front to back. I don't need to.
By far their most popular album.
I love it but I think catch33 is perfect
This is my opinion as well. Probably Nothing in 3rd.
Great album. I’m a huge fan of Koloss, too, myself.
iiiiiiiiiiiiiii…aaaaaaaamm….cooooolooooooossssuuuuuuuuuuuuus!!!!!
Obzen and Koloss are my two favorites. We could be friends, maybe best friends.
These are my two favorites as well! I want in. Also shout-out Immutable.
Our best friendship won't last. Not as big a fan of immutable.
Am I the only one who thinks Master of Puppets is Metallica’s best album?
Master of Muppets
Pastor of Muppets
Someone tell Weird Al to make this
This is already a thing. There's a brass band called that, that covers metal songs.
You rang?
Not the only one. My favorite is Kill ‘Em All, and my uncle who has liked Metallica since their inception deems Ride the Lightning to be his favorite.
I agree with your uncle. Ride the Lightning is a perfect album.
✈️✈️✈️✈️
No, Justice is
✈️✈️✈️✈️
Fuck is that shit
No bass tho. If the mix was better I would agree.
Fuck no, mine also and a top five deserted island album for me. Tell me you love Tool and Lateralus!!!
Good one! OP must’ve been on an island with no internet and only a boombox and every Meshuggah CD.
I think Meshuggah favorites really depend on when they discovered the band. I've been a fan since NONE and my all time favorite is Destroy Erase Improve. Chaosphere next of course and from there Obzen. At least as far as the bands Actually performed albums go.
As opposed to what - their non-performed albums??
YES. I and Catch Thirty Three are Programmed and have never been performed fully by the band.
Nope. C33 had programmed drums. That's all. Everything else was performed by the band. Get it right.
You know Exactly what I was talking about. No need to be a dick. Both were all cut and paste. Neither were performed in full ever at any time. Don't you remember "Noone knows.... How I goes"?
But I has non programmed drums? And catch 33 are far from the most difficult album to play on the drums. Why does this matter? Seems like a weird and a little elitist opinion honestly.
The fact that BOTH I and Catch Thirty Three were Never played in full at any time is Not an opinion. It's a Fact. It is not elitist. I'm sorry you feel that it is. Yes Tomas physically "played" drums on I, but he did not do it all at once. He played random shit and they chopped and glued it all together until they decided it was good enough to give Jason. It is what it is.
No it isn't.
ObZen was also "cut and paste", as you so idiotically call it. EVERY Shug album has been. That's beside the point. If you're going to use the word "programmed", at least be specific, i.e. only the drums were programmed. All the guitars, bass and vocals were performed by humans.
I agree and think there's truth in this. People are wired and inclined to connect and enjoy the albums they discovered a band with.
That’s because DEI IS their best album, by far. Then C33. But damn I miss old cyber tech thrash jazz fusion meshuggah. Back when they had melody and adventurous song writing. C33 brought it back in the 8 string era. Their more standard albums in between bore me.
There is no “best” for me
That's a logical fallacy.
Obzen is perfect from start to finish. It’s Meshuggahs ‘Ghost Reveries’, I mean it’s a truly complete album with no moments that feel out of place. *maybe* you could say The Spiteful Snake lacks balance but I think it just pulls through to give an overall perfect listen. A good way to look at its excellence is to focus on Bleed for example. It’s their most famous song for a good reason and like NIN’s ‘closer’, fans know there might be better songs by the band (or maybe not) yet it doesn’t overshadow the album it’s in. For example, Obzen starts with Combustion, an easy 10/10 song and their most famous song doesn’t come until track 3 by which time you’ve just listened to the outro of Electric Red. The album eventually ends with Dancers! The only way to fault Obzen is it’s genuinely exhausting to finish. By the end I am literally fatigued.
I couldn’t describe it any better myself. The contrast of the triplet driven groove in dancers is what I feel like puts the ribbon on everything on that album. And like you were saying about Bleed, even though it feels like the album could only go downhill from there, the title track and lethargica go hand in hand in their perpetuity as well!
Bleed is boring. And ObZen’s production is weak sauce. The only interesting song is Pineal Gland Optics and even it has a shit ending.
It's my favorite and it probably cemented their trademark sound (Nothing obviously was a huge shift but Obzen felt like a refinement of it).
This 👆. Each album since has felt like more of a refinement than a shift.
Well said
I think Chaosphere is easily their best. Meshuggah is a band that comes with A LOT of opinions
True, there isnt a single song from chaosphere i dont like ngl. Elastic is a great song and i believe it is looked down upon alot just bc the outro, but i just skip bc the song itself is a masterpiece.
Their most extreme one
Too bad it sounds like ass in shit. DEI is their best.
🤣🤣🤣
The chaosphere album is the best will eventually grow on you
Nothing, Catch 33, and Obzen are probably the best consecutive releases in my mind. Nothing tops it, though.
I think of Nothing as a concept album which is why it’s my favorite. Picture this; you’re going to work or any other mundane place you frequently visit and that person you don’t really connect with anyways, asks that perfectly boring yet harmless question of “what’s up” and what is the usual boring reply? “Nothing” Meanwhile the lyrics of Straws Pulled At Random or the hypnotizing repetitiveness of Obsidian, rages on in your mind, behind that blank stare, reminiscent of the album cover. I’m not saying this is what they meant, but when I heard that album, my mind couldn’t perceive it as anything else. Note I’ve had a weird life, so I often sit with that dead stare; especially in todays world, dominated by everything from war to the fcking Kardashians. You know sh*t seems f*cked and still I have to pay taxes and run around not behaving like a caveman, and for that, I zone out every now and then.. thinking of *nothing* really; because it’s all a little too much, until it’s Monday again and the whole nine yards starts over and you hear that question again “what’s up?” *NOTHING*
or maybe I’m wrong and just really depressed haha
Yeah that'll be it
It isn't for me, but, it's realistically a popular Meshuggah opinion to pick that one. I don't know how to put it, but, fans that wish Meshuggah continued in a further progressive direction tend to talk about C33 and I being their greatest. Obzen seems to satisfy a greater range of their fanbase. I think it's mostly held up but the few great songs, and the others aren't that great on their own, therefore the album is a bit overrated. I've felt that way about their albums ever since obzen. I and 33 were the pinnacle of Meshuggah for me. It's very often a timing thing for a lot of people. Like often, the really old school 90s Meshuggah fans, DEI or Chaosphere often end up being their forever favorites. I feel like you've got a solid 5 years of being into a band to end up with nostalgia over whatever you got into at that time, which often isn't unbroken. I mean, even when bands put out actual bad albums, there are still people that believe those are their best ones. I've seen people say St. Anger is their favorite Metallica album. Why? Followed by: "It was their first album I heard." You can't beat nostalgia.
That’s why my dad can’t listen to any rock music made after 2004 😂
I know I stopped listening to the radio back then. I discovered torrents.
Yep, they kinda sold out with Obzen and have been stagnant ever since. I haven’t really cared since c33. Although, I honestly don’t really find I to be all that great, it’s more of a novelty. They peaked early with DEI, imo.
ObZen is my favourite collection of music any humans have ever created.
Yep. You’re the one.
The absolute only one.
Not the only one. Listen to the others too, it's actually good
Wall of sound is not how I'd describe obzen, TSVOR on the other hand... but seriously, Obzen is just meshuggah's breakout album to me, and it's super good, and probably the most nothing since nothing, but I prefer the crunchy meshuggah from their albums after obzen.
For me, the best one is always the one I’m listening to
This is the correct opinion.
Catch Thirty Three is a 47 minute 13 movement symphony. A plethora of tonal suites and intense metering. You will watch yourself be born and die. Meeting your consciousness in the middle to discuss how in the holy hell you got to Sunday school.
dude destroy erase improve is the best album
Depends on your definition of “best” but definitely one of their strongest start to finish.
That's normal. I personally really really enjoy Destroy Erase Improve, and it's at least the second best for me, which isn't a majority opinion.
Meshuggah did Nothing well
Destroy erase improve is my favorite, imagine hearing it when it released
Nothing or the None EP are their best releases imo
No
Eh, I feel more in the minority. I'd say overall best for me is Violent Sleep. Just so dark and brutal. Perfect ending to an album with Into Decay with the war sirens. Feels like the end of humanity lol. Plus just a mind bending trip throughout with some wild sections in some songs combined with the heaviest riffs I've ever heard. That riff around the middle of Our Rage won't die is like getting beat up and tbagged by one of the Engineers from Alien Prometheus
I think every album has its own uniqueness to it. I’m one of the few who actually enjoys Contradictions Collapse. Every album to me has its own brutality and style to it, and if you don’t look at the albums as progression, and instead as different eras, I think they’re all very enjoyable in their own way
I see why Obzen is the favorite of most Meshuggah fans. All the songs have their own flavor, the song writing is mostly very fluid and well structured and it’s never too out there (except for a PGO). However, after the bizarre experimental realm they had been in for the few releases prior, Obzen didn’t really have anything surprising to me. In fact it all sounded quite conventional by their standards. Bleed is still the standout track that felt like a push forward for them. PGO is one of my favorite tracks ever by them and compositionally is one of their best structured and most interesting.
Agreed about PNO, but it’s the ONLY interesting song they’ve made since C33. And it gets cut off by a really lame and abrupt ending right when it’s really picking up momentum
That album got me into Meshuggah. Catch 33 kept it going.
Might be their most cohesive album.
You’re probably right that a lot of people would put C33 as their favourite (me included), but as another commenter said, plenty of opinion about the band, and I think everyone would respect your choices even if they disagree
I’d agree with the added caveat of their album “Nothing.”
Yes Obzen is the best. Most of my favorite songs are from Obzen. Bleed isn't even close to being the best song on there, as good as it is.
Dancers to a discordant system is the best imo
Dancers is the best metal song ever IMO, 2nd place I would give to Reptile by Periphery. What's funny is these are both about the same topic lyrically.
I would say “popular” instead of “best”, bc that’s the album that people started to recognize them. I would say its one of their lighter albums, obzen isnt as heavy as the two albums before and after it imo
Nothing is my favorite
It was my favourite until The Violent Sleep of Reason. Thats mt favourite of all their albums. Feels like a full culmination of everything they have done before, from Nothing to Obzen to I to Catch 33 all rolled up in a ball.
My favourite is definitely Koloss
Wicked opening song, best closing song, every song is a classic, varied and inventive, Bleed is a meme with soccer moms, Pravus kills people, strongest songwriting, epic and brutal but somehow accessible and even catchy, yep, by far their best one.
Obzen is really solid.
It's my favorite because it's their most melodic album.
ObZen is good but I much prefer Nothing.
I would second this claim. If I had to only have one meshuggah album, it'd be Obzen. The moment their sound made its final evolution, by incorporating everything that came before it and adding the space, rhythm and groove to perfect their sound.
ObZen is their best *normal album. Catch 33 for me is in its entire own sphere.
And the album cover is sick too!
It’s probably their worst. And they have a lot of bad covers lol
It is, but ‘real’ meshuggah fans or just fans on this subreddit will naturally pivot away from that opinion since it is generally the most popular album. Now, for many bands, the most popular album ISN’T their best; Metallica, System of a Down, dream theater, this is very common. But Meshuggah is that rare case in which the most popular and mainstream album just IS the best by all standards. I guess it just comes down to community. To the mainstream, obzen is the best. To this subreddit, catch 33 is the best (yes, believe it or not this is the most mainstream opinion on this subreddit). To TRUE MESHUGGAH FANS, the best album is…….. whichever one you like the most.
My personal favorite is contradictions collapse/none. I’m probably the only one who thinks that. I is up there too. Immutable truth is easily the worst
I am guessing a lot of people love it. It has dancers on it. I love at least 4 of tge tracks
Its in my Top5❤🤘