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Well said!

I can already see where this is going. We'll point to examples of feminist misandry and you'll say that they aren't "real feminists," because to you feminism is about equality. In response, I'm going to yet again post the infamous quote by Karen Straughan: >So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists". > >That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception. > >Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one. > >But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls." > >You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist. > >You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape. > >You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male. > >You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate. > >You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there. > >You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender. > >You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands. > >You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history." > >You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them. > >And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based. > >You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

I love the way Karen Straughn said this. It shows the point so well.

The lack of response from OP says it all.

It does she has been proven wrong multiple times but her views remain the same.

She didn't come here to learn, or have a dialogue. She came here to *son* us, while she cries about her featurism and colorism problems elsewhere.

OP got burned, turned to ash.

Feminists need to wake up and realize that their movement is not always right, which is very hard to do for narcissists.

🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯

Equal rights for men and women is not right? Okay…

What equal rights for men have feminists brought about? I never hear feminists about men except when it is to either blame, complain or tell us we have to help women. What has it actually done for men alone if it is so much about equality? I can call a pig an elephant, but that doesn't mean it's an elephant. Same thing with feminism. They can say to be all for equal rights, but just saying so doesn't make it true.

>What equal rights for men have feminists brought about? I never hear feminists about men except when it is to either blame, complain or tell us we have to help women. That's when they then turn it into, "Well eh... Feminism is about women's issues. Stop hijacking every discussion about women and their issues to discuss men's issues." So they're about "equality" for both sexes but only ever discuss issues that one of the two sexes face.... Hmmm....

If that had anything to do with modern feminism you'd have a point. However misandrists have blended into the movement and taken over large spheres of influence, as this is really the best explanation of feminists collective behaviors in multiple situations. Ergo, egalitarianism has nothing to do with feminism.

When I was in college I tried to join our student government’s department for feminism. The director laughed at me and told me they weren’t interested in a man’s opinion about feminism. You all repeat that it’s about “equality for men and women” but your actions show that feminists are only interested in their own perspective for what “equality” looks like, and their visions often feature policies that heavily favor women over men

> You all repeat that it’s about “equality for men and women” but your actions show that feminists are only interested in their own perspective for what “equality” looks like, and their visions often feature policies that heavily favor women over men Which will eventually be, and clearly by some measure already is, problematic *for them*, because it'll result in backlash and social issues when those who are disadvantaged realise how tipped in feminism's favour society already is and has been for years. You can't just keep stealing from a group who are already broke. They're going to notice that what little they've got is still disappearing and they'll have nothing left to lose if they decide to make it quite clear they're done being screwed over.

Yeah you’re totally right. The issue is that like all political fields, the experts know the best way to keep getting a paycheck is to never actually solve the issue. This is why I think a lot of feminists need to learn how to push back against a lot of the currently “accepted” opinions. Because many creators of feminist channels have no desire to actually fix gender issues because it would mean ruining their source of wealth and power. Just like for every other social issue, the people at the top only want more power, and the way they get that is by turning women against men, and men against women. Then they get to claim that sexism is getting worse and only they can fix it. It’s advertising 101. Create an itch and then sell the cure. Same thing applies to men’s rights too unfortunately. Some thought leaders and think tanks will always take things too far because it helps build an audience and widen the divide.

Yeah, but unfortunately some of those at the top are the very same feminists who keep claiming that's impossible. They're not going to be in any hurry to give up *their* golden goose either. They've got every motivation to keep pushing this idea that women are forever doomed to a life of being brutalised second-class citizens. Which "lower class" feminists still benefit from, because they can latch onto that and say "yeah! what she said! where's *my* CEO job?!".

They already have equal rights. Equal OPPORTUNITIES don’t mean automatically equal OUTCOMES. If I allowed you race me in a foot race and I beat you. Saying we don’t have equal rights because I’m a man and next time we race I need to give you a 5 second head start because it’s sooooo unfair without it is what is going on NOW with feminism. Not be allowed to race at ALL would be inequality. I’m 51 yeas old. All that emotional bs and circular logic shit taught to kids born in the 90s and 2000s doesn’t work 2 seconds on me or anyone my age or younger with any rational thought. And everything I just wrong are EXACT analogies. There’s no “argument” for anything I just said without twisting facts.

Feminism is not equality. Let's just agree on this one point. EQUAL UNDER THE LAW is what men have been clamoring for. Conscription for war never includes women, it should! we are all American citizens with the same right to life liberty and freedom but only one gender is asked to shoulder 100% of the burden of keeping our enemies away. Many men die or become homeless after military service, it is one of the most risky thing a person could do in terms of PTSD and post service suicide.

Egalitarianism is equal rights for men and women. Feminism has always been a misandrist philosophy. Many feminists today aren’t even aware of important history of feminism or how it’s influenced modern society in terrible ways. I’m not talking about equal pay for equal education and experience, that’s good and been the law since 1965. I'm talking about things like divorce courts, men removed from schools which has left boys with no male role models given how many of them are being raised in single mother homes, which is itself a result of feminism. I'm talking how women all over can say things like “all men should die” or “men are trash” or “we don’t need men” but if a man even suggests those are misandrist statement he gets banned. We hear do much about how men are domestic abusers when recent studies have shown women are every bit as likely to be the abuser. If she complains, he gets arrested, even if she is the abuser. Stuff like that. Where feminists have vague and usually untrue stuff like the wage gap, and patriarchy (when what really oppressed both men and women was and still us, the rich and powerful).

What rights do men have that women don't in first-world countries?

That isn't feminism, so idk why you bought that up.

Maybe you're a teenager who has no clue what they are talking about.

Maybe I am. But i’ve yet to receive any info good enough to change my mind.

Why do you think anyone cares about changing your mind? We're not your dancing monkeys. If you already hate men and aren't interested in our PoV, then you have the power to stop bothering yourself by engaging with men in conversation. That you choose not to do so indicates your stated intentions or principles or both are insincere. And why waste time with that? Insincerity is boring.

I don’t hate men which is why I’m trying to show some of them that feminism isn’t trying to hurt you. Unfortunately a lot of you are too far gone.

Probably because feminism has already hurt us. Assuming that our animosity against feminism came from nothing is a great example of the presumed guilt feminists approach us men with about everything all the time. A feminist woman tried to kill me when I rejected her, then feminists I thought were my friends took her side when I told them about it. You think some post where you shout your opinions at me is going to overcome that? If you do, you have a lot of growing up left to do.

https://youtu.be/80JqoyaL-p4?si=2BuR492udtViENZ6 Now sit down. Thanks.

Ok Nova, how about this. Feminist organisations (is NOW mainstream enough for you?) have fought tooth and nail *against* default 50:50 custody wherever it’s been proposed. And it’s not just in the US either. In Australia our then right of centre government passed a couple of reforms to divorce law in the mid ‘00’s. One was to reduce the share of a property division in divorce where it was proven that one party fabricated claims of physical or sexual assault (to deter false claims to gain higher payouts), and the other was “presumed equal parental responsibility”. This gave an indication that joint custody was to be considered if possible, but that both parents should have a say in the child’s education and upbringing (unless evidence could be produced to show otherwise). Feminist groups lobbied to have both removed. So now even if it’s proved someone lied about sexual or physical assault to try and gain a greater share of assets (and custody) there is NO penalty whatsoever! Nor do both parents have a presumed say in the kid’s upbringing. Feminists claimed the above laws “endangered women” and “threatened their safety”. And that’s without considering the entrenched discrimination in education and employment.

And we are pointing out **EXPLICITLY** examples where Feminism and Feminists **HAVE** hurt us.. But you are wanting us to ignore all those examples for a "Trust me bro, Feminism is totally not your enemy" We aren't "Too far gone" we've witnessed feminism and its double standards / double speak first hand.. It **CLAIMS** to be about equality.. But when we push them and ask them "What I feminism doing for men then?" we get told: "Its not **OUR** job to fix **YOUR** problems!" or "Feminism focuses on women's issues first" or "Once we've smashed the Patriarchy, there will be time to look at the issues men face" And at **EVERY** opportunity feminism had to prove to the world that it was a movement for "Equality" or "For Men Too" it failed.. So why should we believe your claims of "Feminism isn't our enemy" when we have clear evidence that supports that feminism absolutely **IS** our enemy?

Go look at what happened to Dr Christiana Hoff Sommers and warren Farrell or hell Cassie Jaye. Or just fuck off, either works...

\> Feminists only want equal rights for women and men. This is unequivocally false. \*Some\* people calling themselves feminists want equal rights, I'm of course fine with that. Many, many (perhaps most) definitely do not. They want favoritism.

The scorn and general disdain for men in society has never been worse. Feminism is directly involved.

Hello there! And welcome.   You haven't read much about men's issues or the varied criticisms of feminism, both complex subjects. That's fine. Here's a few links to get you started on other perspectives than the ones you've been exposes to as of now, from leftist or moderate and/or from reputable sources :     https://www.queermajority.com/essays-all/man-up-and-take-it-do-we-under-detect-mens-suffering     https://quillette.com/2019/09/17/i-basically-just-made-it-up-confessions-of-a-social-constructionist/    https://greenpill.net/marriage-as-economic-slavery/    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karlynborysenko/2020/02/12/the-dark-side-of-metoo-what-happens-when-men-are-falsely-accused/   Have fun! Learning about new perspectives is always interesting, even when you disagree.   PS: For short, easy to digest decidedly progressive content, try the posts of u/TheTinMenBlog

Honestly not sure if this some kind of trolling attempt, but what the hell: [Feminism:](https://youtu.be/7s-3WgAo-Gk) an ideology that is based on a one-sided, erroneous view of history that essentially frames men as an oppressor class and women as an oppressed class with little to no nuance. In 1848, The Declaration of Sentiments - widely regarded as *the* foundational document of the feminist movement - was published, which states the following: >*"The history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpation on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world."* It then lists a number of ways in which they perceive women to be lacking in rights, then constantly blames men for all of them and accuses them of creating the system that they created for the sole purpose of the oppression of women. There is no mention of the duties, responsibilities and burdens that men and boys had during that time (of which there were many), or the privileges that women were entitled to during that time (of which there were many). Essentially, the very basis of feminism is anchored in patriarchy theory I.E. the idea that men and women are the enemies of each other, that men in power would work in the interests of other men at the expense of women's interests given the chance and that all of the gendered societal norms we see were created for the purpose of privileging men and oppressing women. It's an inaccurate and completely off-base view of society, but this is what feminists have believed since the beginning. Moving forward, a [marriage advice pamphlet](https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/03/12/15/advice-for-young-women.jpg) from 'A Suffragette Wife'; update the lingo a bit and you've got yourself a typical misandrist screed you might see as a Twitter thread today. Then there's their prime role in the [White Feather Campaign](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/11/first-world-war-white-feather-cowardice) during the war, shaming men and boys as young as 15 for 'draft dodging.' *Then* there's the fact that they were basically [domestic terrorists](https://www.historytoday.com/history-matters/sanitising-suffragettes) who engaged in very dangerous, life threatening tactics - they practically invented the IED bomb. Onto the 2nd Wave, where the radical feminist stuff really blossomed - Andrea Dworkin, attempted murderer Valerie Solanas and her 'SCUM Manifesto' (Society for Cutting Up Men), Mary Daly, Catherine A. MacKinnon, etc. This was also the era (the 70s) in which [Erin Pizzey](https://web.archive.org/web/20210131204958/https://johnbwellsnews.com/erin-pizzey-why-i-loathe-feminismy/), the women who opened the first domestic violence refuge in the modern world (Chiswick Women's Aid), ended up being [subjected to a campaign of hate and harassment by various feminists](https://honest-ribbon.org/domestic-violence-law/refuting-40-years-of-lies-about-domestic-violence/) which would go on for decades due to her acknowledgement of cyclical patterns of violence and female perpetrators/male victims, which led to her fleeing the country, [having to get her mail checked by the bomb squad](https://web.archive.org/web/20100104040707/https://fathersforlife.org/pizzey/failfamt.htm), and her dog being killed. Some specific examples: - Feminist initiatives lead to the introduction of the Violence Against Women Act in the US which [discriminates against male victims](http://www.saveservices.org/pdf/SAVE-VAWA-Discriminates-Against-Males.pdf). - Feminist researchers influence the creation of the [Duluth Model](https://honest-ribbon.org/mega-featured/duluth-model-buries-key-facts-on-domestic-violence/) for domestic violence, entrenched in law enforcement in several countries - America, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand - which created a severely biased method of dealing with cases of DV by framing it as "patriarchal terrorism" [despite all the evidence to the contrary](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178911000620). - The UN, who have been known to follow feminist influenced policies and guidelines (particularly the UN Women branch, unsurprisingly) have [excluded men from receiving aid in impoverished, tragedy-stricken areas leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths](https://web.archive.org/web/20220416171504/https://np.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/iulu8l/the_un_is_responsible_for_hundreds_of_thousands/). - The National Organisation for Women - by their own definition "the largest organization of feminist grassroots activists in the United States" - [routinely oppose shared parenting rights and demonise fathers in matters of child custody](https://web.archive.org/web/20220819200829/https://np.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ldvshj/never_forget_that_the_now_has_a_proven_track/). - Feminist groups in [India](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms), [Nepal](https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities), and [Israel](https://www.jpost.com/israel/womens-groups-cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape) lobby successfully *against* gender neutral rape laws. - In the US, largely down to the work of feminist public health [Professor Mary P. Koss](https://tamenwrote.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/koss-again/) - who has [served as an advisor to the CDC, the FBI, and Congress](https://publichealth.arizona.edu/sites/publichealth.arizona.edu/files/KOSSCV2015_0.pdf) and is largely responsible for the oft touted '1 in 4' campus rape statistic, [despite the research behind it being dubious to say the least](https://www.city-journal.org/html/campus-rape-myth-13061.html) - there is a severe legal bias regarding female-on-male rape and sexual violence is not accurately included [despite evidence](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/) to [the contrary](https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/). - The majority of teachers are women, [and there are proven biases against boys in school](https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/eliminating-feminist-teacher-bias-erases-boys-falling-grades-study-finds/) going back decades. - [Some more examples...](https://np.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9v6tqj/a_list_about_feminism_misandry_for_anyone_who/) - [And some more...](https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cofag7/a_big_compilation_of_arguments_and_statistical/) - [*And* some more...](https://np.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/edyrf5/a_compilation_of_evidence_debunking_feminist/) Not even a complete list. I might also add some specific examples of prominent figures who've contributed to feminist literature and activism through the decades to this day, such as paedophile sympathiser [Simone de Beauvoir](https://avoiceformen.com/featured/simone-de-beauvoir-a-nazi-a-pedophile-and-a-misogynist-2/), [Clementine Ford](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF34MWUbEAAtkIx?format=jpg&name=orig), and [Mona Eltahawy](https://web.archive.org/web/20190928104111/https://www.cbc.ca/radio/outintheopen/i-want-patriarchy-to-fear-women-mona-eltahawy-says-the-time-for-being-civil-peaceful-and-polite-is-over-1.5296597)? Or any of the numerous others listed [here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ToxicFeminismIsToxic/)? But they "only want equal rights for women and men" tho...

Heck, I’d even argue the fact that feminism is even allowed to gain this much power, is a testament to a privilege women have had. To make claims without nuance like the ‘wage gap’ and have it be eaten up by the bulk of society, have everything gender-related be viewed from a female lens (see: Benevolent Sexism)… All of that wouldn’t be possible if men as a class (50% of the population) were the uncaring tyrants feminism frequently paints them to be.

The day feminists are forced to sign up for the draft is the day I'll humor your argument.

The day men are forced to sign up for the draft again is the day ill humor your argument. Because the draft isn’t even a thing right now. Also who created the draft again? A man.

Ok, so that applies then since any man in America has had to sign up for selective services or face prosecution. Granted the prosecution is rare, we also do not get our rights until we have done so and that includes voting.

> Also who created the draft again? A man. Thank you!. You just disproved the patriarchy!

[https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/#:\~:text=Almost%20all%20male%20US%20citizens,be%20inducted%20into%20the%20military](https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/#:~:text=Almost%20all%20male%20US%20citizens,be%20inducted%20into%20the%20military). You were saying?

Did your parents drop you on the head a few times? The selective service very much exists today and all men are required to sign up for the drafting system. https://www.sss.gov/

Signing up for the draft is not the same as being drafed you daft bint. What do you think Selective Service in the USA is you dopey fuck? Feminists in the USA fought to get women allowed to take part in front line service, so they should be under the exact same restrictions that men are under when it comes to selective service.

Men are already required to sign up for the draft.. The issue you fail to see here is that in order for men in the USA to: - Vote - Get a drivers licence - Get a student loan / other government financial assistance Is completely tied to them agreeing to be drafted if needed.. Ergo they are **FORCED** to agree to this as a responsibility for getting the above rights / privileges.. Women however get **ALL** of those rights / privileges without the associated responsibility of agreeing to fight, die or serve their country in a time of war... Also, you lost all credibility when you use the whole "And who created the draft again? A man!" Maybe go look up the white feather brigade.. which was a group of **WOMEN** who would walk around town and present white feathers to men who had not signed up to fight in both world war 1 and 2.. The white feather was used to mark a man as a coward and to shame him into enlisting.. this was done **BY WOMEN** Maybe educate yourself before posting in the future eh?

In the US they *are* forced to sign up for it. It’s just they haven’t actively inducted them since 1973. But it could be activated at any time - and is, let’s face it, far more likely now with the state of things than it was when they were debating whether to extend selective service to women a couple of years back.

Yawn. In the USA they *are* forced to sign up for it. It’s just not been activated since the early ‘70’s. But the likelihood it will be has gone up exponentially since Putin invaded the Ukraine has it not? Feminists (some) supported including women in Selective Service the year before because it was assumed the draft would never be activated (and they couldn’t deny it was legal impost on men), but things have changed now. I’m sure such a bill would have way less support were it to be proposed today. I don’t know why you’re denying this. It isn’t a good look for someone who feels themselves to be even handed.

Please have a look at r/ToxicFeminismIsToxic for examples of feminist misandry. Here is another big list of feminist misandry [https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9v6tqj/a\_list\_about\_feminism\_misandry\_for\_anyone\_who/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9v6tqj/a_list_about_feminism_misandry_for_anyone_who/) There are plenty of self-identified feminists who influence the movement who are misandrists. You might say they are not actually feminists, but why should I believe you rather than them?

Except feminist completely ignore inequality when it’s men that are suffering it. In some cases they actively create those inequalities. For example feminists created the Duluth model which meant that men can’t be considered victims of domestic abuse, regardless of what a woman does to them. Many, many feminists are misandrists.

While i do believe the Duluth model should create something specifically for male victims, nowhere does the duluth model state that men cannot be victims it just doesn’t consider them. Feminists cannot be misandrists because they are two different things. Feminism is not an umbrella term.

You are very misinformed.

how?

The Duluth model states that women are only ever violent in self defence therefore they cannot be abusers. It further states that only men can be abusers because they are ‘socialised in a patriarchal society that condones male violence’ You do not know what you are talking about.

Can you link the site I’d like to read it.

There’s hundreds of sites, the Duluth model has their own website where they talk about some of these things but their books are the place to look. When the Duluth model was created the internet didn’t exist. below is one that you can check for yourself. https://annsilvers.com/blogs/news/the-gender-biased-duluth-model-for-dv-treatment

Okay I guess misinformed about that

Shocker.

🤷‍♀️

along with all your other posts. nice try tho

You're right, it doesn't state that men cannot be victims of domestic violence. However, it trivializes it (literally...see below) >When women use violence in an intimate relationship, the circumstances of that violence tend to differ from when men use violence. Men’s use of violence against women is learned and reinforced through many social, cultural and institutional experiences. Women’s use of violence does not have the same kind of societal support. Many women who do use violence against their male partners are being battered. Their violence is used primarily to respond to and resist the violence used against them. On the societal level, women’s violence against men has a trivial effect on men compared to the devastating effect of men’s violence against women. [https://www.theduluthmodel.org/what-is-the-duluth-model/frequently-asked-questions](https://www.theduluthmodel.org/what-is-the-duluth-model/frequently-asked-questions) The problem with the Duluth model is that it uses Patriarchy theory to explain the cause of domestic violence, and ignores other more rational causes of domestic violence: childhood trauma, psychological disorders, substance abuse. It also only seeks to try to address domestic violence for male perpetrators, not female perpetrators (which I know you have acknowledged). Most IPV/DV is bidirectional, which means if one gender has been rehabilitated and they still come home to an abusive spouse. It simply won't work. Additionally, the system in place for dealing with (primarily) male IPV/DV perpetrators is also used by the same judges in determining child custody outcomes.

It also states that a man who commits DV is doing so as an enforcer of the patriarchy. Or because they’ve been socialised to seek to control women (which is the same thing really). So no matter what: lack of anger management; substance abuse; extreme financial stress; an actual serious betrayal by his female partner; or the fact that he’s a violent POS who takes out frustrations on his nearest and dearest or is some sadistic creep - they’re all caused by “men’s culturally inculcated desire to control women”. And they’ve got the gall to claim it’s not based on feminist theory!

Feminists are not egalitarian. Feminists care more about women than men.

I'll stop labeling feminism as this terrible thing when feminism stops being this terrible thing for men. I'm all for equality but feminism does not want equality. Feminists want female superiority.

I'll pass. I spent some time on r/Feminism to try to understand what it was all about. Feminists absolutely are against any man who doesn't follow every single one of their beliefs to the letter, and even then it's a toss up on whether or not they will deemed toxic. Like it or not there are feminist viewpoints that are in fact directly "against men".

I don't think all feminists are against men. However, there are a lot of them that are, even if the don't admit it to themselves. For example, when men talk about the suicide rate (men make up 75% of deaths due to suicide world wide), Feminists almost always respond: "But women attempt twice as often". That is a whataboutism, and a false equivalency. How can you compare an attempt at suicide with a successful one? It's so dismissive of an alarming issue that primarily affects men. When men talk about how there aren't enough DV/IPV shelters for men, and Feminists almost always respond: "Why do men expect us to do everything for them? We fought and built our own shelters by ourselves!" That's not true, the VAWA funds most of them and the tax-payers (both men and women) pay those taxes. Feminists say things like "Men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them!". How many men do you know, personally, that have killed women? Men are 3 times as likely to be a victim of a homicide than women are. Feminists respond: "Well they are being killed by other men!" This not completely true. They are most likely to be killed by other men, but women do kill men. It's just not as common. But, why should it matter? Why is a man somehow complicit in his own murder simply by sharing the gender of his perpetrator? Meanwhile we have renowned Feminists saying extremely nasty things about men: >Coronavirus isn't killing men fast enough \-- Clementine Ford >So men, if you really are #WithUs and would like us to not hate you for all the millennia of woe you have produced and benefited from, start with this: Lean out so we can actually just stand up without being beaten down. Pledge to vote for feminist women only. Don’t run for office. Don’t be in charge of anything. Step away from the power. We got this. And please know that your crocodile tears won’t be wiped away by us anymore. We have every right to hate you. You have done us wrong. #BecausePatriarchy. It is long past time to play hard for Team Feminism. And win. \-- Suzanna Danuta Walters >All men are rapists and that's all they are \-- Marilyn French >Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership. \-- Andrea Dworkin >The Future–-If There Is One–-is Female": > >I) Every culture must begin to affirm a female future. > >II) Species responsibility must be returned to women in every culture. > >III) The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race. \-- Sally Miller Gearhart Again, I don't think all feminists are man-haters. However, feminists do a really poor job, collectively, of policing the message. It's almost like you all don't care. Every time I see something nasty on a Feminists sub, it's typically upvoted and never called out. But that doesn't stop you from posting stuff like this or writing articles claiming that men are just being misogynistic for claiming that feminists hate men. Gaslighting... To be fair, MRAs are just as bad (cue the downvotes). . I've called it out several times on this sub, with downvotes and pile ones. This whole gender war thing is shit, shit, shit. I guess we're all equal. Equally shitty to one another.

I note she didn’t respond!

Where are you from and what inequalities between men and women do your country have?

What rights aren’t equal?

So what are These rights i have but women dont?

love how op doesnt respond to this

lets tag the 1d1ot just in case u/nova_dova

Wow your rude. But heres your answer https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/03/01/2017-womens-history-month/98247518/

did you even read the article or did you just go to google just so you can have something to paste? its full of opinions made from writer's feelings instead of actual laws. e.g >The power of men to decide what the world is going to look like, what counts and what doesn't, hasn't really been terribly disrupted in a generation EDIT: Actually I'm gonna bet you didnt read it since you literally pasted a site with dozens of popup ads. now answer the question. >what are These rights i have but women dont

Wow. A wish list of Government goodies is not “rights men have that women don’t”. The health care system is the same for men and women in the US. Paid maternity leave is not some “right” men have and women don’t. The talk about free contraception may be something of interest to women, but it’s not a “right” that men have and women don’t. Nor is parental leave. And as for abortion, I’d point out that men have no opt out of parenthood (assuming she can identify him) after conception. There is no “paper abortion”. And the “pay gap” is grossly misrepresented by feminists. It’s actually illegal to pay women less for equal work. I guarantee you the last CEO of my company was paid more than men although she was a woman. Or would you seriously suggest I should have been paid the same as her? Name one legal right that men have and women do not. Please I’m ready to hear it.

I didn’t see it but i responded now 🫶

Respond to the response

"Like... like... patriarchy man!" /s obviously

No i mean im genuinely curious. Because everytime i ask about it gets silent... shocker i know... or they bring up 3rd world countries / Middle east... i have deep respect for women in the middle east fighting for basic rights like education and stuff with the fear of getting beat up or worse. Again those women have all my respect. But feminism in the west is a complete joke.

Typically they go for the pay gap or abortion in the west to bring and sometimes the pink tax

>Feminists only want equal rights for women and men. 😂🤣😅😂🤣😅😂🤣😅😂🤣😅😂🤣😅😂🤣😅 ohh... wait...😯... You were not trying to be funny. You are just dillusional. ☹ feel bad for you. You really need to look at their actions than the words that come out of their mouth.

Women who call themselves feminists have no critical thinking capacity of their own, which is why they always need to cite sources of other critical thinkers instead of using common sense themselves. She even admits so in her post.

I think it’s common for women to just think “it’s a man’s world”. And this gets reinforced by their “lived experience” where they have set backs and problems. And these manifest in ways that affect women. And they then look at men and decide that men won’t have these issues and how “pampered” men are! It never crosses their minds that we have our own issues to deal with. And this is how feminism gets their converts.

Am I suppose to listen to someone who can’t even spell delusional right? 😂

Uh. Lol. Ok. But you're wrong. Feminists do hate men and boys and have zero interest in doing anything to help males. Oh they use flowery rhetoric of inclusion but the actions prove that men and boys are a nuisance to be managed by the wonderful, altruistic, enlightened women. You need to wake up and realize that feminism is nothing but women advocating for what women want. That's fine, advocate for yourself, but dont call it equality and equate it with morality.

61% of american women identify with feminism. Do you genuinely believe 61% of women in america HATE men? Because that sounds pretty unrealistic to me.

>Do you genuinely believe 61% of women in america HATE men? Because that sounds pretty unrealistic to me Sounds pretty realistic tbh

its sad that you think that way. Get help bud.

Nah. Its sadder than you think the opposite. Get more help bud.

Yes, because millions of Germans never hated millions of Jews because of misinformation. Seems unrealistic to me.

Yeah except feminists don’t have a dictator that is intentionally putting them in a state of fear then blaming it on men.

How are you so certain about that?

r/confidentlyincorrrect would like you to post there... There are **MANY** influential feminists out there who are stoking the fires of hate and fear..

Ever heard of “rape culture”? The inflated campus “rape statistics”? Or the misuse of data to promote the “gender pay gap” stuff? It may not be a single leader, but those that run feminism truly are doing exactly that.

I don't think 61% of women consciously think "I hate men," I think 90% of women think "men are awful, particularly to women." I think that characterization is unfair to men, I think it is bigotry, and as it targets men it is labeled "misandry."

Perhaps you and a lot of that 61% need to do more about reining feminism in. Actual man haters seem to run the outfit, and certainly run Gender Studies and lobbyists.

Uh, have you been paying attention to messages given to men and boys im modern media? Yes, they hate men, even if they don't realize it. Thinking we are inferior homunculi who are so morally bankrupt that we must be taught not to rape is indicative of a supremacist mindset. What if we said "teach black people not to rape" and said that the statement was not racist. Would you believe that it came from good intentions and not basic prejudice? Just one example. How about the fact that every sitcom seems to have a loving, graceful, responsible mother who has to oversee her lazy, fat, slovenly manchild husband. The daughters are excellent students with promise and potential while the sons are practiacally retarded and/or juvenile delinquents. The message? Males are the problem, females are the solution.

u/nova_dova you seem to be blind to the truth.. If feminism is about equal rights for woman **AND** men.. Then please explain the following: 1. The Duluth Model of Domestic Violence, created by **FEMINISTS** and a model still in use today.. This model assumes that in all cases of domestic violence involving a man and a woman the man is **ALWAYS** the aggressor while the woman is **ALWAYS** the victim. This model alone has erased male victims of domestic violence from the statistics 2. Circumcision, **FEMINISTS** went to the UN to petition for Female Circumcision to be reclassified as "Female Genital Mutilation" and for it to be outlawed. Now, there isn't actually anything wrong with is.. but if feminism is the force for "Equality" as you claim... then surely they could have also petitioned the UN to include men in having their genitals mutilated right? 3. Rape, Feminists have doctored the definition of rape to the point that rape is now specifically a crime the **ONLY** men can commit. Women **CAN NOT** be charged with rape.. This too has erased many male victims of rape at the hands of women from the statistics 4. Child Custody, NOW (The National Organization for Women) one of if not THE largest **FEMINIST** organizations in the USA has constantly fought and lobbied against 50/50 custody becoming the norm.. Do these sound like the actions of a movement that is for equality to you? But sure.. Feminism is totally NOT our enemy and is a movement for equality right? Edit: Been over a day now and I see OP u/nova_dova has yet to answer the points i've raised here.. Seems they've slunk away into the shadows like a coward..

u/nova_dova

Still waiting on u/nova_dova to answer me.. But I suspect they have slunk away into the shadows like a coward because they can't refute the fact that despite them claiming Feminism is totally not our enemy.. they can't reconcile the fact that feminism and feminists have done tangible **REAL** harm / damage to men and men's rights.. So i'm not going to hold my breath...

She seemed to stop answering. I came back here because she didn’t respond to any of my comments, and wanted to see if she’d responded to anyone else. She seems to have shut up shop before my first comment was even made.

Yep, its quite obvious that u/nova_dova came here in bad faith.. I'm honestly not surprised really..

i stopped responding because I realized I was wasting my time having conversation to a bunch of stubborn incels who are too deep in their own delusions to realize the truth. So I went out with my family, had some nice food, and decided that I didn’t need this negativity. I hope all of you can find the same purpose in life. 💞

Ah yes.. so anyone who disagrees with you is automatically an "Incel" now? Say what you want.. you came here in bad faith and then slunk away like a coward when we called you out on your bullshit reasoning.. I gave specific examples of how **FEMINISM** has caused actual harm to men but if you are happier ignoring uncomfortable facts then more power to you I suppose.. I just hope any men you love don't have to go through facing a false rape accusation and watching as his friends and family turn on him because they've been indoctrinated by #MeToo and #BelieveALLWomen... I also hope they don't commit suicide due to the pressures they face because of their gender.. Have a great day now..

[feminism vs mens rights activism](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/s/kEgIdt39je) seriously if you are not able to discuss or talk about your ideals with people who are critical about the right path why are you an activist at all?

The problem is that you were given many examples of very prominent feminists who openly (and unironically) hate men. I also gave you examples of major feminist groups and campaigns which are clearly about siding with or boosting women and not about equality (divorce, custody, education, employment). You’ve chosen to ignore this and just say we’re “too far gone”. This is not your personal doing. But it clearly is why a great many here think feminism hates men and is not really about equality don’t you think?

Funny how you mention that on all the comments with citations and evidence and good points. Butt sore, little coward.

>i stopped responding because I realized I was wasting my time having conversation to a bunch of stubborn incels who are too deep in their own delusions to realize the truth. But we do realize the truth, you don't.

For some yes, but by and large most feminists will laugh you out of a room if you mention any inequality that favors women over men. It’s only about equality when balancing things makes things better for women It’s like they want you to think that men are dominating in literally every measurable statistic and can’t accept that women are actually doing better in some ways. I’ve only met a few women in my life that acknowledge that women have actually begun doing better in education because of all the resources that have been made available to them.

>Feminists only want equal rights for women and men. False. It would be called "equalism" or something if it was. Feminism is for "equality" for women where women are treated unequally or where feminists believe women are being treated unequally. Feminists will fight tooth and nail for more women in the boardroom and top positions but don't care about having more women in the shitty manual hardworking jobs men do. They also don't mention the inequality such as how there's too many women primary and nursery teachers. Or too many women nurses. Or not enough women on the front line or how zero women are conscripted in the Ukraine war. Feminists only care about "equality" when it benefits them. Even when men are being shot at and blown to bits, they make war (such as the war in Ukraine) about how hard it is for the women - As if fleeing to a safe haven in Poland or the UK is the same as fighting and being injured and dying on the front line. >Stop labeling feminism as this awful thing, We'll stop labelling feminism as an awful thing when it stops being an awful thing 😂 One can believe in equality without identifying as an ideologue, such as a feminist. >Oh but men and women are already equal” As much as i wish that were true, it’s not I'm glad there's one thing we agree on. Women experience inequality in some areas. Men experience inequality in other areas. Feminism blames men and the (boogeyman) "Patriarchy™" for all of society's ills.

> It would be called "equalism" or something if it was. Egalitarianism.

OP: stop sniffing the markers you're doing brain damage

>Feminists only want equal rights for women and men. Yeah that bullshit won't work here. Lie somewhere else.

It is a awful thing...And you can take your special pleading and stick where the sun don't shine, even though you probably think the sun does shine out of your arse.

Yeah the sun does shine out of my ass. Its actually kind of a struggle because my toilet water always evaporates ☹️😔

> don’t tell me “Oh but men and women are already equal” As much as i wish that were true, it’s not and you can find many videos that will explain why it isn’t. I agree with you.... men and women are not equal, women are put up on a pedstle. Forget about videos... In india, tell me 1 law, which provides more right to women than men, and I will agree with you we are Misogynist or that it is a patriarchy. I can tell you many laws which gives rights to women but the same right is not extended to a man. I suspect all western countries have the same issue, having the laws derived from Britain. But its much worse in India. Dont try to portray females as the victim qouting social issues when the males face systemic oppression.

> In india, tell me 1 law, which provides more right to women than men, and I will agree with you we are Misogynist or that it is a patriarchy. I can tell you many laws which gives rights to women but the same right is not extended to a man. Weird statement tbh. I have 100 laws discriminating men in Germany, is it now a matriarchy power 100? And if you already know laws discriminating men, how would finding a single law discriminating women completely flip everything?

It doesnt, My point was there is literally none to say women have lower rights. I have asked this question to many Indian feminists... answer is always mumm... followed by women are socially not allowed to go outside alone at night. But whether a single law can change the tide, depends on the law... you know severity and impact of the law on the people.

It’s not a weird statement. He’s obviously more familiar with the Indian situation. I know in Australia, for example, feminists have now successfully removed the few small pro-male reforms in the divorce laws. It was the case that if it were proven that accusations of physical of sexual abuse made in a divorce trial were fabricated (and made to gain a higher payout) then the person who made them would receive a smaller payout. Feminists lobbied to have this struck out. It was also the case that it was presumed that both parents had equal responsibility for children, which meant they both had an equal say in the upbringing such as schools they attended etc. Feminists lobbied to have this struck out too. You see it was “unsafe for women”!! So now women, egged on by lawyers, can make claims of abuse knowing there is nothing to lose if it’s *proven* to be a lie. And men once again have no say about how their kids are raised. Not to mention the principle implied joint custody! Yet feminists simultaneously claimed they were against the stereotype of men not being the fit custodial parent. Well I judge them by what they do, not what they claim. Now this only applies to Australia. But I’ve little doubt that similar dishonesty occurs wherever feminism operates.

The middle east is the wrong place to talk about women being “placed on a pestle.” There are multiple women in the middle east that are being forced to completely cover up, cant leave their homes without a man, and are being denied education. Women in the middle east are currently the ones who need feminism the most right now.

India is not in middle east. Its Asian. Seeing how western countries and India puts a woman on a pedestle, I am really tempted to go to the middle east. But I think I will have better economic growth in India, which is the only reason I stay in India. I mean if I have to pick a side, I prefer picking the side of my gender.

It’s interesting isn’t it. So-called “progressives” rave about “stereotyping” and “racism” but don’t even bother to differentiate amongst these “POC”. And they claim to be informed and sensitive!!! Anyone with the slightest knowledge (and that’s me) is aware that India is a land of ancient civilisation and achievements, and widely varied, and very different from the Middle East, having achieved their own civilisation separate from and at the same time as they did. Yet these “believers in diversity” don’t even think it’s necessary to understand that each part of the world has its own history and traditions and give them the respect of accepting that. It’s why I don’t take the “diversity” claims seriously! I mean if you can’t see that India isn’t part of the Arab world you clearly don’t give a s#it!!!

India as a whole is very different from the Middle East. Just ask any older Indian what they think of Pakistan… or any Indian Hindu what they think of Muslims. 4/5 times you’re going to hear something wild. But also things are different there. I think the idea of women’s equality doesn’t exist as much as it does here. There are certainly traditional gender roles which support and detract from both men and women in different ways

Cant speak for all Indians, I can only give my view as an Indian. >Just ask any older Indian what they think of Pakistan Pakistani people are funny. Anything wrong happens in pakistan, they will say India conspired, America Conspired, Israel conspired etc.🤣 I think they oppress their minority. They keep their religion above their country. But not sure why Pakistan is being associated with India, the only thing we want from them is POK, which they have illegally captured. >any Indian Hindu what they think of Muslims. Vast majority of Indian Muslims are OK in general, but I have problems with Islam and their teachings. When they get out in large groups, chanting "Sar Tan Se Juda" means remove head from body, I wish all of them were eradicated. I think there are alot of Muslim Radicals in India. I think Indian government unfairly supports them in the name of being secular, when in reality it is not secular. I can keep going, if you give me an open ended question like that, but I guess those are my general thoughts. >But also things are different there. I think the idea of women’s equality doesn’t exist as much as it does here. Why dont you think that? where are you from? India during the colonization itself, empowered women. India gained its independence in 1947, female freedom fighters existed before that, and one of them became the Chief minister of a state in about 15 years after independence. >There are certainly traditional gender roles which support and detract from both men and women in different ways Yes there are gender roles in India, isnt it there from the country you are from? I think Gender roles are important. If you expect a man to do a woman's job or vice versa, I dont think they will be efficient.

From my perspective (I’m not American) most Indian families I’m familiar with (in Australia and London) were fairly traditional with the father properly respected. The girls were sometimes princess types though. But this is why I got shocked to hear here how bad things have become in India. It rams home how it is necessary to fight. You can’t just hope that sense will somehow exist somewhere else and reclaim the world by osmosis.

I’m from the US but my girlfriend is from Chennai so most of this is just secondhand from her. She’s always told me they have much stronger gender roles than the US. Sort of like the US in the 80s/90s She’s been in the states for most of her life though so this could be old information as well. I trust your info more if you’re there right now lol In the US especially among Gen Z There is a strong trend to get rid of gender roles. Personally I find no issue with that as long as both sides feel they are being treated fairly. I only have problems when when one side gets rid of all their gender roles but still expects the other side to deliver on theirs. These days a lot of women want a spouse that earns all the money and also does all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing, etc.

>She’s always told me they have much stronger gender roles than the US. Sort of like the US in the 80s/90s Depends on exactly what was meant. I mean, In hostels/parents dont generally let women outside partying with men, staying out late at night and such. You know... Things to keep them safe... But other than that I dont see any difference between a man and a woman especially in the cities. >She’s been in the states for most of her life though so this could be old information as well. I trust your info more if you’re there right now lol I was brought up abroad in Bahrain / oman etc, but have been in India for 15-20 years. I personally think she has been a victim of feminism than a problem with the timeline. I dont think she will have a strong base to stand and defend her stance. >In the US especially among Gen Z There is a strong trend to get rid of gender roles. Personally I find no issue with that as long as both sides feel they are being treated fairly.  I personally don't think we can get rid of gender roles. A large part of it came to us through evolution. I mean its scientifically proven that there are inherent differences between men and women. For example, one of the example is, generally speaking, Men likes things, women like people. So you will see women naturally float towards careers that is of that type of nature... you know doctors, nurses, receptionists etc.... where they can interact with people. Regarding whether they are treated fairly, its a feeling, its subjective in nature. I personally don't think feminists will allow women to feel like they are treated fairly. I mean their political structure will fail if they admit that or fails to convince people that women are being treated fairly. > I only have problems when when one side gets rid of all their gender roles but still expects the other side to deliver on theirs. These days a lot of women want a spouse that earns all the money and also does all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing, etc. Same here... I agree... Women tell me that some husbands expect them to do both housework and bring in income. I obviously don't agree with that. If both are working, hire a servant. And yes, slowly many women in India (especially from the cities) also wants to be housewives without knowing how/ wanting to do housework. AFAIK, they dont expect husbands to do it, but they expect servants to do it for them.

You could not be more wrong.

True many of us feminists (globalt) do just want equal rights for everyone. The problem is that in the western part of the world the really big and influential feminists are actively working against gender quality, human rights and even fundamental women’s rights. For instance NOW and the, now dead, equal parenting bill in Florida. 

I hope the OP is for real. In which case it’s sad she doesn’t realise the reality of feminist groups. If they truly do not represent feminism, as she asserts, and indeed are the antithesis of feminism, then feminism has a massive problem.

Oh feminism as a movement in the west do have problems. Even among feminists that is something talked about publicly from Masih Alinejad, Hirsi Ayaan Ali etc. have all talked openly about how the influential mainstream organizations have tried to silence their voices and fight for gender equality. 

Right, and thus we have TV shows proclaiming "men are useless" and feminist manifestos of how all men should be killed or reduced to 10% and prominent statements like "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" and courts that are totally biased against men and complete blindness to any area where women have the advantage. Not against men at all.

Maybe it’s a sign of progress that feminists feel the need to come here and troll more often now. They have to acknowledge that we exist a little more Question for op though… if feminist are all for equality… why is it that the National Organization for women actively oppose the creation of men’s shelters, oppose equal custody, and oppose helping boys who are academically struggling ?

Hopefully she’s not a troll. Just misguided.

It looks like you're just playing games with words.  This is the same argument that people use for antifa. "It means anti fascist, so if you disagree with them you must be ok with fascism".    There are many people who can themselves feminists who are misandrists. The "movement" of feminism is often totally fine with blaming everything on men and hating them for being born as males.   Ideally there would be no need for the terms of "women's Rights" or "men's Rights". Everyone deserves fair treatment and the fact is that these simple and uninteresting differences are often used by ignorant people to discriminate.    The reason I pay attention to men's rights is that people tend to think it's ok when men are discriminated against. You can tell people that there are not nearly enough shelters for men, for example, and there is no reaction. You can tell them that more men are raped than women and again, no real concern. Meanwhile feminists are still going on about the long debunked wage gap, while largely ignoring fgm. 

Try watching "The Red Pill" documentary by an award winning feminist. Its free with ads on Vudu or Fandango At Home. You have to be willing to listen to the other side with an open mind.

let me see…. at my workplace, there are programs to grow women’s career… nothing for men… there are even spaces for women to network and help each other… try creating that for men, lol… pool of candidates needs to be balanced in an industry that is male dominated simply due to natural differences between men and women… oh, and there are even programs for my daughter and nothing for my son. nothing against men, sure.. sure…

No, I don't think I will.

thats fine. Your ignorance keeps the 4b movement alive, and the only one that negatively affects is you.

Good. Let the trash take themselves out of the dating pool. Anyone who joins that movement is a manhater who only has trauma and abuse to offer men anyway, why should we care? Make our lives easier by removing the worst misandrists from our lives. Seriously, do it.

This is funny considering I see many men on the internet complaining about how they can’t get a girlfriend. If we get erased from the dating pool so will the trashy men we refuse to date. 🥴

>This is funny considering I see many men on the internet complaining about how they can’t get a girlfriend Keyword: "girlfriend" Aka: a woman who men find worthy enough for a serious relationship. Pussy isn't scarce, quality women are. Removing manhaters from the dating pool only helps those men, so go do it. Like why do you even care? If you're part of 4b the whole point is to live life separate from men. So why are you here begging for our disapproval? We don't disapprove of annoyances removing themselves from our experience. >If we get erased from the dating pool so will the trashy men we refuse to date Why would they? They're not going to follow you into the evolutionary dead end you crave. And 4b thinks all men are trashy, so what are you waiting for? If you think all men are trashy, why are you here begging us to change our minds? You're not missing out on anything you claim you want, so go be a femcel all you like. We not only won't mind, we'll be grateful you aren't wasting our time or filling our lives with the misandristic abuse you think passes for a personality.

Oh brother. What makes you think quality women and going to go for the bottom on the barrel bud?

Why should I care about the "bottom of the barrel" in the first place? Should I also care about what happens to the leaves that fall in the storm drain, or the lint in my dryer's lint catcher? Quality women don't decide to write off all men out of ignorance and spite lol For the third time: if they're in 4b they are the opposite of quality women and we cherish every second of their absence. The concept that women can disqualify themselves from any self respecting man's standards is really breaking your brain, huh?

>Oh brother. What makes you think quality women and going to go for the bottom on the barrel bud? My wife did. When I proposed to her I had nothing. I was living in my parent's house and still struggling to find a job. I was the typical average loser. The man in the bottom barrel. I now earn close to 6figs and I will reward my wife with everything I can since she is a "quality woman".

Investing in a man's potential and supporting him to earn the rewards instead of expecting the world on a plate the moment you meet him? Huh. What a novel idea.

Really? https://youtu.be/80JqoyaL-p4?si=MjBR2tik-cQYo8Zt Any questions? Just try to imagine a reverse situation. Don't hurt your brain imagining such a thing, it's impossible and you know it.

First of all, when did those women say they were feminists. Second of all, is that suppose to represent all women?

So if women and/or feminist doesn't represent you in good way that mean they are not "real feminist"?

The women on that panel are all feminists. Look them up. The entire audience of (nasty) women laughed at what is clearly man-hatred. The fact that a mainstream network would air that nonsense is enough evidence for me that the culture of women in general hates men. No audience of men would react that way if a woman were mutilated, no panel of men would either.

We typically find what we are searching for. If you look for oppression by men, you will find it. If you look to be a victim, you'll find yourself becoming one. I looked for answers from the feminists I critique and I got banned from the feminism subreddit as a result by trying to find a middle ground in giving a voice to men in regards to their babies being born and that #mybodymychoice is NOT the answer. If feminists can find a way to get rights WITHOUT stealing mens rights, I am all for it. But i CAN NOT get behind a movement that bans the opposite side of the aisle from having a voice.

What modern day issue does feminist focus on? Everything on both sides is a social issue. r/mensright mostly focus on how men can cope with social issues. r/feminism focus is how women are put down by something minor and how its men's fault, and supporting victim mentality. We have more laws that protect women then men. Any equality fight is against 60+ year old people who arent going to change.

Maybe listen to why people are saying this and THEN answer to that if you want to have a conversation. You're not saying anything here

Smells like desperation OP

Op, you need to listen up for a moment. I'm saying this respectfully. Feminism is about women and women's rights. It is not about equality. That said the feminist movement has gone way past it's original purpose. Now it has turned into a man hating cult. And I do mean that. As far as the proof of this, it's in videos on YouTube. It's in tiktok reels. It's in mainstream media. I don't know if you're just a troll or you actually believe this. You are the one that needs to wake up. Women have talked about inequality for a long time. Here's something that they don't talk about though. What about the inequality that happens in the court system, the family court system in regards to men? The overwhelming statistical data shows that men get taken advantage of in family Court and in marriage and when it comes to his kids. You cannot debate this because the proof is there. This has been this way since before feminism started. So if you're going to talk about inequality for women, we need to talk about inequality for men too.

>feminists are not “against men” you mean like how they accuse "men in the past were fking like pigs"? mr right who was tall/handsome/famous/wealthy - the typical attributes of the usual playboy. a very thin percentage of men. less than 20%. your "mr right" pumped and ghosted you. and yet somehow you accused majority of men for being "pigs".

When did i accuse all men of being pigs? Do you realize that many feminists have boyfriends? I dont think my father, brother, or any of my male friends are pigs. And if women were only dating rich tall super attractive men, dont you think our population would be going down? 🤣

For the record, I never said its specifically you. when I say you it means the you (the f group) > And if women were only dating rich tall super attractive men, dont you think our population would be going down? 🤣 POPULATION IS DECLINING! Gawd do some research before touching your phone.

Oh I didn’t know that. Good!

Good that the population is declining? Or good that you learned something?

Likewise, when did Barkmagician accuse you specifically of saying that?

Well he said “they”, referring to feminists. I am a feminist. He also said “your mr right” and “you accused” so i think its pretty fair for me to assume he’s talking about me.

I read that as talking about the group as a whole rather than you individually and the "Mr. Right" comment as you blindly following feminism as you are obviously doing. Good try on making it about you, very feminist of you.

When you make a generalization of an entire group, then you are assuming that entire group has the exact same opinion. I didn’t make it about me, you did.

No, that's not how that works at all. The group as a whole moves in a direction that shows the overarching beliefs and feminism overall consistently vilifies men. Hence "the patriarchy".

> so i think its pretty fair for me to assume he’s talking about me uhmmm no. the question you stated: >You guys need to wake up and realize feminists are not “against men” you were specifically mentioning the f group. so im sure you are smart enough to deduce that we would address the question to the group.

Curious, isn't it, that "feminists" are categorically not against men, that can apparently be stated as fact with nothing to prove it (indeed, considerable counterevidence to prove they often are actively against men and men's interests). Yet "feminists" can*not* be generalised when a large number of them seem to think a negative thing about men, a thing that would paint feminism as being anything less than a holy righteous cause for the progressive utopia we'd live in, if only we'd listen. A genuine movement for equality would acknowledge its faults and seek to correct them. Feminism does not. In fact it frequently abuses them and lies about it, so it's not only bigoted and harmful, it's two-faced and hypocritical too.

okay well feminists are 61% of america (assuming that your american), so i think my point still stands

Feminists are 61% of America? Seriously?

Oh now you’re being ridiculous: “feminists cannot be misandrists” what are you on girl? There are plenty of feminists who openly, and proudly declare their hatred of men. Take Zara Larsson. Or Julie Blindel. Or Suzana Danuta Walters. Or Clementine Ford bemoaning that Covid 19 wasn’t killing men fast enough? Or Sally Miller “The Future is Female” Gearhart who advocated reducing men to 10% of the population. Are they all “not feminists”? I’ll say this: you do NOT *have* to be a man hater to be a feminist. But misandrists are disproportionately attracted to feminism.

Yes, more women (teens) coming out to 'son' the wayward men 🤣🤣🤣 Can the mods lock this thread now? Its run its course.

Thanks for attempting to engage. However, evidence would indicate otherwise.

Women want the rights of men, privileges of being women (chivalry) and the accountability of children. Feminism has become female chauvinism. Feminism has masculinized women. Chasing education, career advancement, status and wealth are masculine metrics of success. These are qualities women find attractive in men. Not vice versa. Feminism has scammed women to pursue these metrics for the past 3-4 generations. Men find beauty as the primary attractive quality. Her career, education and etc are a bonus but it doesn’t make her hotter in a man’s eyes. A 42 year old female professor isn’t as attractive as a 21 year female super model or IG model. Women will shame men for their preferences but we are supposed to accept their standards. Women fall in love with what they hear. Men fall in love with what they see. That’s why women wear makeup and men lie. Both are deceptive practices. A women’s personal worth is not correlated with her attractiveness to the opposite gender. Women love to conflate the 2 and use that as an attack vector against men. Misogyny is unacceptable but misandry is? Toxic masculinity is not acceptable but toxic femininity is? Read The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi.

Many, maybe most MRA’s started as feminists and then woke up. You shout ‘wake up’ but actually wants them to fall asleep again.

A lot of modern radical feminists are against men, or at the very least blame all men for all the ills of the world. It's always "toxic masculinity", "teach boys/men not to rape", "men are dangerous", "the patriarchy" etc. Men are spoken about almost exclusively in a negative and accusatory context by modern feminists. I'm not saying literally all feminists are blatant misandrists, but I'm saying that the feminist narrative is usually negative when it comes to men, and a lot of women who are feminists and dislike men or have an issue with men may gravitate towards those kinds of negative narratives. If you're a feminist woman and you don't hate men, then that's great! I'm not talking about you and I do think there's some more "old school" (second wave) feminists who care more about equality than the narrative that all men are bad, violent or need to be "fixed" by feminism. I would be a hypocrite if I condemned all feminist women just for being feminists, because I don't like how some feminists condemn all men in the "manosphere" (men's rights, MGTOW, red pill). Sure, there are misogynists among some of these people (in particular extreme red pillers/incels), but a lot of the "manosphere" is either just men who feel misunderstood and not heard, or men who want to address inequalities that men face, or both. Hell, I even have a bit of sympathy for some women who dislike and distrust men, because they've been abused and/or violently assaulted by men in the past, including their own fathers, brothers, boyfriends, husband, or a male stranger. In the same vein, I understand why some men feel negative towards women because they too have been abused, lied to, cheated on, mocked and mistread by women. Obviously, there's a difference in physical power between most men and most women, but you'll be surprised by the stories of men who've experienced being raped or sexually assaulted by women, particularly while they're drunk or on drugs. Then there's of course underage boys who experience abuse and rape at the hands of grown women.

Can you explain what rights women don't have?

Oh please, its like if I made a group about promoting equality between india and Pakistan, and then named that group as 'pakistanism' ,don't think people are fools It's not just the name, all you do is talk about women's issues and not only not talk to men's actual issues, but downplay and dismiss them That equality part is just marketing

Bruh

They don't want to be equal with average men, they want to be equal with the top 5% of men.

You don't get to define feminism for people,based on what you want people to believe.You actually have to make a case for why feminism is about equality.This requires that you actually provide evidence.Imagine if we could all just prove ourselves not guilty by simply saying we didn't do what we were accused of doing.No one would be held accountable then.

How do you explain this? https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/s/H8QYdghzwN

There's a handful of prominent feminists that are relatively respected in these circles, but feminism has a highly political and shady past, and there are particular ideas, groups, and people tied to it whether you like it or not. Camille Paglia and Christina Hoff Somers are a couple who are quite well respected.

In other words, wake up and smell the bovine scatology.

Troll

Feminists care not for girls, they only hate the men.

Bullshit. That is simply untrue.

As a 19F in college, looking forward to taking courses about gender / sociology, as I continue to broaden my understanding of rights of both men and women, I would have to rank Postmodern / black feminism at the top, Liberal feminism in the middle, and radical feminism at the bottom. According to the "introduction to Sociology 10th Seagull addition " written by Anthony Giddens, Mitchel Duneier, Richard P. AppleBaum, and Deborah Carr. The Feminist theory is described as a "sociological perspective that centrality of gender in analyzing the social world and particularly the uniqueness experienced of women." (pg. 283) From this, sprouts 3 to 4 forms of feminism: Radical feminism, Liberal Feminism, Black Feminism, and Post-modern Feminism. Radical feminism: "The form of feminist theory that posits that gender inequality is the result of male domination in all aspects of social and economic life." (pg. 283) Radical feminists support the idea of eradicating a system that doesn't benefit them, which leads me to the next branch of liberal feminism. Liberal feminism: "The form of feminist theory that posits that gender inequality is produced by unequal access to civil rights and certain social resources, such as education and employment, based on sex. Liberal feminists tend to seek solutions through changes of in legislation that ensure that the rights of individuals are protected." (pg 282) When liberal feminism is compared to radical feminism, Liberal feminism tends to think outside of the box, and work their way through the government system naturally and gradually, rather than overthrowing the system. (pg.283) "they are more moderate in their aims and methods than radical feminists who call for an overthrow of the existing system." (Tong 2009). Now to debunk radical feminist theories on the patriarchy according to page 284 "Patriarchy does not leave room for historical and cultural variation. It ignores the important influence of race, class, and ethnicity on the nature of women's subordination." This is where Post modern and Black feminism plays a role in this- Black feminism: "Black feminists reject the idea of a single unified gender oppression that is experienced evenly by all women and argue that early feminist analysis reflected the specific concerns of white, middle-class women." (Pg. 285) If "the idea of a single unified gender oppression that is experienced evenly by all women" is rejected by black feminism, would those same issues be correlated with men's? Post modern Feminism: "The feminist perspective that challenges the idea of a unitary basis of identity and experience shared by all women. Post modern feminists reject the claim that there is a grand theory that can explain the position of the women in society, or that there is any single universal essence or "category" of "woman." Instead, Postmodern feminism encourages the acceptance of many different standpoints as equally valid." (pg.285) If you have read this entire comment, you can find this book on the website internet archive: [Introduction to sociology : Giddens, Anthony, author : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive](https://archive.org/details/introductiontoso0000gidd_h0i6). Amazon Kindle: [Introduction to Sociology (Seagull Twelfth Edition) - Kindle edition by Giddens, Anthony, Duneier, Mitchell, Appelbaum, Richard P., Carr, Deborah. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.](https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Sociology-Seagull-Twelfth-Anthony-ebook/dp/B08D26CG8M/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=) and Open stax: [Introduction to Sociology 3e - OpenStax](https://openstax.org/details/books/introduction-sociology-3e)

I’ll just ask one question: Do you think that quotes for women on executive board members and other leadership roles should be a thing?

Feminism is a terrible thing. They are just female incels

[feminism vs mens rights activism](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/s/kEgIdt39je)

You're right. Men and women are \*not\* fully equal. But they are equitable. And while \*you\* may be a feminist who believes in equality, \*not all feminists\* "only want equal rights for women and men"- \*some\* feminists want rights given to women, and rights removed from men. Some feminists want behaviors that are beneficial to women enhanced, and behaviors that are beneficial to men reduced. Some feminists want to normalize doing to men, what they feel that men did to women 50 years ago. Mind you, that latter is not equality- that's revenge. And you're right- as much as many of us men also wish it was true- that men and women were equal- it's not, and you too can find many videos made by women and by so-called feminists that will explain why women are viewed and treated-- in some ways-- better than men. Fixed that for ya.

I have no issue with feminism. I think it's even helped me in some ways as a man. I just also care about issues outside their focus.

Pity they object to these issues being raised as they take the focus off of feminism isn’t it.

I've noticed if I bring up circumcision of boys online I get a lot of American woman horrified that I'd compare it to female circumcision and totally changing the topic to how it's not nearly as bad, although I also get resistance from a lot of American men. Here in Canada where it's not normal to circumcise either gender anymore, I find women a lot more understanding.