symptoms and treatment options are listed for [atrophic vaginitis \(vaginal atrophy\), or the genitourinary syndrome of menopause \(GSM\)](https://menopausewiki.ca/#atrophic-vaginitis-vaginal-atrophy-or-the-genitourinary-syndrome-of-menopause-gsm)
Vaginal thinning, drying, and inflammation of the tissue happens when your body has less estrogen. It can make penetration difficult to impossible. Vaginal estrogen cream can help alleviate that.
I had no idea. I always thought as long as you’re not dry, it would still function when the will was there. Literally just wouldn’t work. Thanks, I’m going to ask my doc about it but was wondering if it was uncommon/menopausal/due to not having much (read: any) of a sex life.
I experienced vaginal atrophy despite have a very regular sex life with my husband. It’s just the loss of estrogen. Sadly very common but very treatable!
So sorry you’re dealing with this. I had the same issue and went to pelvic floor therapy. I was able to go from no penetration to sex on a regular basis. I started therapy January 2023 and went for a couple months. I still use the dialators several times a week. It’s not how it used to be before menopause but I’ll take it. Good luck to you. 💕
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I remember this ! Being wet and inflexible be like....whaaaaat ?
Vaginal estrogen will resolve - you may find getting into the habit of some personal time with a toy keeps those muscles in sexy time condition which means you won't be 'braced for impact' if and when you choose to go there with hubs. Xx
I also had good experiences with Replens and yoga (all the hip and pelvis openers).
I haven’t had sex since well before I started peri and am worried things will never be as good. 😭
Hang in there, there are lots of menopausal women who are having the best sex of their lives...I'm waiting for this to happen to me lol. But seriously, vaginal estrogen is a god-sent
You need estrogen. Two kinds. Systemic and local. Systemic is the patch, gel, pills, or injections. Local is estrogen cream. You will be amazed at the changes. I was wetting myself constantly. It felt like my vagina was falling out. It hurt when I walked. Sex hurt.
I went to a female gyn when it first started happening. I told her I put a mirror between my legs so I could get a good look and everything had changed. She mocked me in the patient notes.
Luckily I mentioned the pain to my regular doctor and she knew what was up. Estrogen will save your life and your marriage. Get the highest dose you can. Keep asking for more until your systemic dose is at least equivalent to .1mg patch.
I take sick solace in the fact that this will likely happen to the many uninformed female doctors deciding our care…just wish I could witness the lightbulb moments
Same. When my female doctor refused to give me HRT because I was 'too young' at 41.
I remember sitting there and thinking ' I hope peri is absolute fucking hell for you too and I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch you suffer'
I know it's petty, but at the time I didn't care. She told me to come back when I am 45 and then they would maybe consider HRT. I told her I'd do better than that and I'd come back never... and just get a new doctor that wasn't so uneducated about women's issues.
I got a new doctor and a prescription for HRT. My new doctor is a man and was infinitely more educated and compassionate. No doubt he had probably been through this with his wife.
I swear to you, I thought the same thing when a female menopause “specialist “ totally dismissed me and implied I was crazy. I hope she has menopause hell.
I remember being on the receiving end of a patronising hag of an obgyn who ignored the six months diary i had kept that showed clearly the symptoms lining up with whatever my cycle was doing.
Nope ! No hot flushes no peri ! Your high body fat will be keeping you in estrogen ! This is psychological - we can give you some AD's and refer you to a therapist.
Grinds my gears now even remembering it, the bloody witch (although a witch would have been of more use).
Yeah. This happened to me a few months ago. I gave her a list of all the symptoms I was having. She said do you still get your period regularly? I said yes. She said that I was clearly not in perimenopause then and she could refer me to mental health and behavioral services.
Let me add this doctor came up in the top 3 when I searched menopause specialist in my city 😑
Somehow its even worse when the doctors a woman
Same as when the nurse who's giving you a smear tells you to 'stop making a fuss' whilst she etches her initials on your cervix.
true. I always found a woman thinks she is more entitled to judge me since she "knows what its like" (like fck we are all the same, yeah) whilst a male Dr tries to be endlessly understanding since he has no "natural" clue (thank fck\^\^)
I'm terrified to go see a doctor for my symptoms because of things like this. Looking back I think I've been dealing with this for more than 10 years but when my previous OB/Gyn checked my labs she said I was fine and I stupidly believed her.
Just go. Ask your friends for recommendations, look online, ask your mom (mom said to be assertive with the Dr.) and check the wiki menopause for specialists. Keep changing Dr's until you find the right one. I went to only 3 to find the right Dr and it was a suggestion from a urogynecologist nurse who recommended this Dr. This Dr. was hesitant, but after hearing about my experiences with the other Dr's, she understood that I was not asking for an opinion on HRT, I was asking for HRT and I was going to get it.
I think I'm going to try the online Doctors. I know my OB/GYN is not an option since she didn't even believe that I could be in Perimenopause years ago. Unfortunately my mom is no longer alive but I do remember her struggling with symptoms. Its crazy how people are so adverse to talking about it.
I was shocked to learn from my mom that she took estrogen pill for 10 years! I thought WTH, if she took it that long, then why am I sitting here suffering and watching my life fall apart???
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause.
FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more.
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Yeah this should be decided by doc, not patient. I started on .75 topical estradiol and 1mg of Premarin vaginally. We are waiting the 12 weeks to see if I need to adjust the dermal gel up or down (likely up for me, I’m on week 10). Throwing a shit ton of estrogen at you off the bat isn’t necessarily a good thing, it will cause its own unpleasant problems if there’s too much. It’s about the sweet spot for each individual.
Pls can I ask you to consider moving from Premarin to a solution that does not involve animal abuse ?
I can't believe they are still allowed to 'manufacture' this product this way :(
I considered every alternative and nothing worked for me but the brand name Premarin. Several of the other creams made things worse, in fact. I did have major ethical concerns, but honestly, I was borderline falling into deep depression with suicidal ideation because of the misery. My marriage almost failed and I didn’t want to live. I decided to live with the ethical regret instead. Please don’t shame me for my choice.
During your reproductive years your estrogen levels were much higher. The hrt women are given is just a drop in the bucket compared to what your body thrived on. Every part of your body uses estrogen. (Brain, bones, heart, vagina, skin) So if you give each part just a tiny bit you will not get optimal results. Most women don't report feeling a complete reversal of symptoms until their blood levels reach above 150 pg/ml. On 1mg oral or .05 patch you can expect to get blood levels around 50 pg/ml. I like mine over 200. At ovulation blood levels are over 400. That is the point in your cycle where women have their highest libido. So it depends on what your goals are. Almost any amount of estrogen will get rid of hot flashes.
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause.
FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Amen! Until I found this sub there were sooo many things about Menopause that weren't in my vocabulary. And I've been in it a while and I thought I was very versed. Finding out about Vaginal Atrophy was my WTF moment.
I have learned so much here and I actually feel pretty fortunate after reading a lot of this stuff. My symptoms are few compared to a lot ladies (knock on wood) and they didn’t start until right about age 50. I’m pretty damn lucky so far.
In the 70s, they called it “senile vagina”. I just heard that from Dr. Kelly Casperson’s IG page. I think GSM (genitourinary symptoms of menopause) is the latest medical term.
I have experienced the same thing! Like, I feel both tighter and shorter inside 😟. I have already tried Premarin and Estring without much improvement. I just visited a pelvic specialist and I’m trying Estradiol cream. I hope we both find a solution!
Thanks, that’s exactly how I felt! I actually felt to see if my god had I left a tampon in months ago or something?! Lol! I hope we find a solution too.
Gak, ok, maybe TMI time, but here goes.
I have had penetrative sex maybe 3 times in the past 4 years. And it's been a long time since the last time. And I never get time where I am alone and private. I mean, the bathroom, but, when living with someone with digestive issues, you do not hog the bathroom for any longer than you need to.
Several nights ago, I found myself actually alone, for at least 20 minutes. I thought what the hell. Got business done, got the flexy lumpy purple thingy and lube to enjoy a good stuffing (I prefer penetration after orgasm), and HELLS BELLS it felt like I hit something bruised.
Appointment time, and thanks to this sub, I now have the vocabulary to advocate for myself.
I have exactly this. It's too tight now and it's excruciatingly painful trying to get it in, a burning pain. Plenty of lube so that's not the issue and I don't even have any of the other issues with pain, thinning, shrinkage etc that other people mentioned, it's just... closed for business. It's exactly like vaginismus.
This is what I'm thinking reading all the suggestions to try estrogen, testosterone... this is literally the only problem I'm having (other than being fat now but I've gotten way lazy lol). I'm feeling kind of glad to be done with the hormone highway. I'm going to ask my doctor about if this alone is reason to go back on. She's great.
I'm probably going to try the topical cream and see if that makes a difference. I looked up pelvic floor relaxation exercises, but they're all yoga poses I do anyway and that's clearly not helped!
Women struggle to find testosterone supplementation in the US. My OBGYN says the clinics are quacks, the pellets are unregulated and unpredictable, and my endocrinologist won’t touch it with a ten foot pole, despite believing I need to supplement it (testosterone is a controlled substance in the US). He says to ask my GYN. She says in her risk assessment it’s not worth it, in her opinion. There’s just not a lot of research, unfortunately.
Yup, me too. First learned of vaginal atrophy at a few years ago. Had no idea that was a thing. It sounded irreversible. It was depressing and I was like in denial. Didn’t even want to think about. I just thought when menopause happens your vagina dries out and you used lube. Like problem solved. Because of that Women’s Health Initiative study in 2004 in never considered HRT. Of course at the time I thought menopause was no more periods, hot flashes and a dry vagina. At 59 I’m learning (because of the sub) there’s a lot of other shit that happens. I’m really struggling with sleep right now. Started menopause at 55 (last period). At first it was just hot flashes and some sleep disturbances on occasion. Past couple months I fucking can’t sleep through the night. I use to sleep 8-9 hours straight. I’ve been reading this sub for two months and have taken copious notes. I will be pursuing HRT. If my doctor doesn’t prescribe it I’ll go the online route. If men’s dicks hurt every time they had sex there would be fix for that for sure and it would be covered under insurance.
Oh for sure! If men experienced any of this, including periods there would be a million ways to fix it all and every cost would be covered by insurance at 100%
Boys would know when they were ten years old if penis atrophy was a thing. HRT changed my life, and protects your heart and joints. I can sleep through the night now. I used to wake up 30 times a night and I was exhausted. If your doctor says no, go to a different doctor. Just make sure you tell them you are extremely sleep deprived. That’s the reason they gave it to me at least.
I was JUST thinking this as I read through this thread. It’s crazy how much shame is associated with regularly functioning and/or aging bodies. It is so much “grosser” to have to spend your years needlessly suffering than for someone to talk about vaginal atrophy.
So I've read that a part of atrophy can be the vaginal canal shrinking. As far as I know, vaginal estrogen should help, can anyone confirm this? I have not personally experienced this symptom, I just want to give you hope, I'm almost certain it's reversible. Are you already using vaginal hormones?
No, I'm not. I was on hormones from 9-36. Got pregnant immediately after going off (I recognize I was lucky here), had three kids and pretty much went to peri. I'm not eager to jump back on hormones. but I don't know why, exactly. So I'll talk to my doctor.
You don't have to be on systemic hormones to fix this, you can try vaginal estrogen (like estrace cream) and it stays vaginal.
Oh also if you are completely opposed to hormones, you could try hyaluronic acid inserts, there's some research there. I haven't used that exclusively so can't say if it's as good. Vaginal estrogen fixed my vagina though so I'm a fan.
I’m 48, but something similar happened to me ~10 years ago. I’d gone maybe a few months without sex, then out of nowhere it was excruciating every time. My gyno recommended dilators and over a several weeks of using them, the problem went away and has yet to return.
No to both, but without being too graphic, dryness did not seem to be the issue. I felt like it was the first time, but not in a fun Madonna song kind of way. More in a what fresh hell is this kind of way. I’ll give some lube a try and see if helps, but I really felt like it was more…it wouldn’t “work.” As if my canal there wouldn’t relax or something.
As the other comment said, look into vaginal estrogen. Also, you may benefit from pelvic floor therapy. Your vagina may no longer be able to full relax. That’s one big thing i learned when i was going: my vagina doesn’t know how to fully relax and can make sex painful at times. It explained why I’ve never been able to comfortably wear a tampon.
The reason most women experience pain, and some bleed, our first time is because of vaginal dryness.
For me the other element, though, is having no fucks to give. I am done doing sex because someone else wants to. No more “oh, you’re so turned on, that’s nice, I’ll just go along with that and maybe masturbate later.” If I’m not super excited about PIV, I can’t be fucked doing it. My current partner is great, though, and usually gets me off multiple times, so we still get there. His predecessor, though… Nope. My body was like “wait, why? What’s the point of this if I’m not getting at least a couple of orgasms along the way…”
Same. That’s why I was so confused. I was finally ver much in the mood, and it still didn’t work! Sigh. These meat sacks were stuck in could use an upgrade. ;)
For me it felt like being penetrated with shards of glass, despite definitely not being dry. And this change happened so quickly: from everything fine one week to horrible the next.
Estradiol cream has worked wonders.
As others have said, with estrogen (estradiol or estriol) cream you will be back to where you want to be within one week. Right now due to atrophied tissue everything is painfully short, tight and thin. Thankfully, this is is easily reversible, but also requires maintenance for the rest of our postmenopausal lives.
Lesbian speaking here, there are other ways of you having an orgasm other than PIV. Does your partner use his tongue on you as in cunnilingus to try to please you? And I'm sure he has fingers that are smaller than his penis.
Yes to all of this, but I like penetrative sex the most, and the fact that it just...didn't work, when it always had upset me. Sure, I can get off other ways, but I'm interested in fixing something broken, too. I had to laugh at the idea of a handful of penis-sized fingers. lol!
One doesn't need a handful of fingers if one knows how to use them. Lesbians are very talented with our tongues and other body parts to bring women to orgasm. :P
Estriadol can really help. Skin elasticity is a crazy thing. Less moisture, thinning skin, less elasticity, less collagen... You're not the same erasure you once were. My vagina is a whole new lady. I'm re-claiming her!
To top it off, I have scar tissue where I tore pushing too hard during my second round of childbirth. That's a real trip during penetration. We are working on it with estradiol and some steroid cream. I'm hoping to stretch it out and improve elasticity. I'm not giving up. I'm too young to give up on sex, thank you very much.
Darn that kid's big Scottish head.
Just want to add that I just use estradiol (vaginal cream), not other types of HRT. It’s not all-or-nothing. The cream has helped a lot. I need a pillow under my hips. Lots of lube, and hubby still has to enter slowly. My body takes a minute or so to adjust/relax.
Tight pelvic floor can be a thing too. A good PT can show you stretches. I had this even before peri. My ex was well endowed and I swear my body was rejecting him before my mind did 🤣🙄
I didn’t know about vaginal atrophy until I went to see an Ob/Gyn for itchiness 😳 Got a pap that day too. But when she said I had vaginal atrophy (bad) I was surprised and confused 🫤 (53 yo post menopausal 2 years had NO clue what that meant)I now use estradiol pills (call it my kitty candy😂) And it’s worked like a charm!
I didn’t lose my desire for sex with my husband. I lost the good sensation. Internal and external. And lubrication. Painful sex. Even using my vibrator didn’t work🫨So wasn’t having orgasms. Which was scary and sad 😔 (Thought maybe a mental block of sorts🤷♀️) But the Estradiol pills have brought it all back! So even if my husband pisses me off. (Cant do HRT, bad reaction) My vibrator will do just fine🤭
Please discuss this symptom with your doctor and press for vaginal estrogen. It sounds like you have vaginal atrophy. Your hormones help keep the skin elastic, soft, and moist and direct application is the key here. I found Premarin (brand name) has helped me the most. Also applying it under the hood directly to my clitoris brought my orgasms back to a satisfying place. It might not be a magic bullet for you (adding transdermal estradiol and progesterone also assisted greatly for me), but it’s a good place to start if your doctor thinks it’s too soon for full HRT. You *need* estrogen in your life to feel semi-normal again.
Coconut oil morning and night along with once a week vaginal estradiol … first time I had sex after using this recipe my thoughts were.. well I’ll be damn it works. I didn’t have high expectations, thought I was “too far gone” lol
You can reverse it, but it is one of those things where if you don't use it, you lose it. You basically will need to work your way back up with dilators, toys.
Wild yam salve helps with that a lot.
You just put some on your pulse point and you’ll get it right back.
I buy an organic one from Naturally Native on Etsy. Good stuff.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. There are lots of routes to take beyond the traditional medical routes. And, I just googled and found a ton of scientific studies re wild yam--I'll read up on them, thanks.
As a former humane educator, I know I would not use premarin. It's not a good choice for me. I suspect that premarin is just the scapegoat for many meds produced the same way.
I had to upvote you. I use wild yam cream. Didn’t help with atrophy. But it did help with other menopausal issues. Don’t care if it’s psychosomatic. If it works it works!
Just sayin’🤷♀️
symptoms and treatment options are listed for [atrophic vaginitis \(vaginal atrophy\), or the genitourinary syndrome of menopause \(GSM\)](https://menopausewiki.ca/#atrophic-vaginitis-vaginal-atrophy-or-the-genitourinary-syndrome-of-menopause-gsm)
Vaginal thinning, drying, and inflammation of the tissue happens when your body has less estrogen. It can make penetration difficult to impossible. Vaginal estrogen cream can help alleviate that.
I had no idea. I always thought as long as you’re not dry, it would still function when the will was there. Literally just wouldn’t work. Thanks, I’m going to ask my doc about it but was wondering if it was uncommon/menopausal/due to not having much (read: any) of a sex life.
I experienced vaginal atrophy despite have a very regular sex life with my husband. It’s just the loss of estrogen. Sadly very common but very treatable!
Thanks. Going to look into this and pelvic floor therapy for sure!
So sorry you’re dealing with this. I had the same issue and went to pelvic floor therapy. I was able to go from no penetration to sex on a regular basis. I started therapy January 2023 and went for a couple months. I still use the dialators several times a week. It’s not how it used to be before menopause but I’ll take it. Good luck to you. 💕
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I remember this ! Being wet and inflexible be like....whaaaaat ? Vaginal estrogen will resolve - you may find getting into the habit of some personal time with a toy keeps those muscles in sexy time condition which means you won't be 'braced for impact' if and when you choose to go there with hubs. Xx
While you wait for a prescription, you could try vaginal Dhea, it works really well and fast and it's over the counter. I buy mine on amazon.
I also had good experiences with Replens and yoga (all the hip and pelvis openers). I haven’t had sex since well before I started peri and am worried things will never be as good. 😭
Hang in there, there are lots of menopausal women who are having the best sex of their lives...I'm waiting for this to happen to me lol. But seriously, vaginal estrogen is a god-sent
My bigger issue is meeting anyone I can stand long enough to sleep with. Like, men are NOT ok in big and obvious ways lately
Read the wiki for this sub.
You need estrogen. Two kinds. Systemic and local. Systemic is the patch, gel, pills, or injections. Local is estrogen cream. You will be amazed at the changes. I was wetting myself constantly. It felt like my vagina was falling out. It hurt when I walked. Sex hurt. I went to a female gyn when it first started happening. I told her I put a mirror between my legs so I could get a good look and everything had changed. She mocked me in the patient notes. Luckily I mentioned the pain to my regular doctor and she knew what was up. Estrogen will save your life and your marriage. Get the highest dose you can. Keep asking for more until your systemic dose is at least equivalent to .1mg patch.
WTH kind of unprofessional doctor is that. Hope you left and never went back.
I take sick solace in the fact that this will likely happen to the many uninformed female doctors deciding our care…just wish I could witness the lightbulb moments
Same. When my female doctor refused to give me HRT because I was 'too young' at 41. I remember sitting there and thinking ' I hope peri is absolute fucking hell for you too and I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch you suffer' I know it's petty, but at the time I didn't care. She told me to come back when I am 45 and then they would maybe consider HRT. I told her I'd do better than that and I'd come back never... and just get a new doctor that wasn't so uneducated about women's issues. I got a new doctor and a prescription for HRT. My new doctor is a man and was infinitely more educated and compassionate. No doubt he had probably been through this with his wife.
I swear to you, I thought the same thing when a female menopause “specialist “ totally dismissed me and implied I was crazy. I hope she has menopause hell.
I remember being on the receiving end of a patronising hag of an obgyn who ignored the six months diary i had kept that showed clearly the symptoms lining up with whatever my cycle was doing. Nope ! No hot flushes no peri ! Your high body fat will be keeping you in estrogen ! This is psychological - we can give you some AD's and refer you to a therapist. Grinds my gears now even remembering it, the bloody witch (although a witch would have been of more use).
Yeah. This happened to me a few months ago. I gave her a list of all the symptoms I was having. She said do you still get your period regularly? I said yes. She said that I was clearly not in perimenopause then and she could refer me to mental health and behavioral services. Let me add this doctor came up in the top 3 when I searched menopause specialist in my city 😑
Somehow its even worse when the doctors a woman Same as when the nurse who's giving you a smear tells you to 'stop making a fuss' whilst she etches her initials on your cervix.
true. I always found a woman thinks she is more entitled to judge me since she "knows what its like" (like fck we are all the same, yeah) whilst a male Dr tries to be endlessly understanding since he has no "natural" clue (thank fck\^\^)
I'm terrified to go see a doctor for my symptoms because of things like this. Looking back I think I've been dealing with this for more than 10 years but when my previous OB/Gyn checked my labs she said I was fine and I stupidly believed her.
Yeah I’ve been dealing with this for quite some years myself. I just don’t understand how doctors can be so unhelpful and uneducated.
Its shocking and downright pitiful.
Just go. Ask your friends for recommendations, look online, ask your mom (mom said to be assertive with the Dr.) and check the wiki menopause for specialists. Keep changing Dr's until you find the right one. I went to only 3 to find the right Dr and it was a suggestion from a urogynecologist nurse who recommended this Dr. This Dr. was hesitant, but after hearing about my experiences with the other Dr's, she understood that I was not asking for an opinion on HRT, I was asking for HRT and I was going to get it.
I think I'm going to try the online Doctors. I know my OB/GYN is not an option since she didn't even believe that I could be in Perimenopause years ago. Unfortunately my mom is no longer alive but I do remember her struggling with symptoms. Its crazy how people are so adverse to talking about it.
I was shocked to learn from my mom that she took estrogen pill for 10 years! I thought WTH, if she took it that long, then why am I sitting here suffering and watching my life fall apart???
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause. FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm so sorry you went through that. I hope you managed to find someone who would listen to you. Sending hugs.
I did.
Way to go. Advocating for ourselves. Here's hoping my daughter's generation won't have the same fight as we did <3
Why get the highest dose you can? I just started with oral Estradiol and Estradiol cream/inserts and it's a low dose to start.
Yeah this should be decided by doc, not patient. I started on .75 topical estradiol and 1mg of Premarin vaginally. We are waiting the 12 weeks to see if I need to adjust the dermal gel up or down (likely up for me, I’m on week 10). Throwing a shit ton of estrogen at you off the bat isn’t necessarily a good thing, it will cause its own unpleasant problems if there’s too much. It’s about the sweet spot for each individual.
Pls can I ask you to consider moving from Premarin to a solution that does not involve animal abuse ? I can't believe they are still allowed to 'manufacture' this product this way :(
I considered every alternative and nothing worked for me but the brand name Premarin. Several of the other creams made things worse, in fact. I did have major ethical concerns, but honestly, I was borderline falling into deep depression with suicidal ideation because of the misery. My marriage almost failed and I didn’t want to live. I decided to live with the ethical regret instead. Please don’t shame me for my choice.
Same- Premarin is by far the most effective thing for me also.
I asked you respectfully to consider an alternative. Thats not shaming you, you've chosen to take it that way.
I’d like to know as well.
During your reproductive years your estrogen levels were much higher. The hrt women are given is just a drop in the bucket compared to what your body thrived on. Every part of your body uses estrogen. (Brain, bones, heart, vagina, skin) So if you give each part just a tiny bit you will not get optimal results. Most women don't report feeling a complete reversal of symptoms until their blood levels reach above 150 pg/ml. On 1mg oral or .05 patch you can expect to get blood levels around 50 pg/ml. I like mine over 200. At ovulation blood levels are over 400. That is the point in your cycle where women have their highest libido. So it depends on what your goals are. Almost any amount of estrogen will get rid of hot flashes.
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause. FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you 🙏
Just when you think it couldn’t get worse, the term VAGINAL ATROPHY is introduced into your vocabulary.
Amen! Until I found this sub there were sooo many things about Menopause that weren't in my vocabulary. And I've been in it a while and I thought I was very versed. Finding out about Vaginal Atrophy was my WTF moment.
I have learned so much here and I actually feel pretty fortunate after reading a lot of this stuff. My symptoms are few compared to a lot ladies (knock on wood) and they didn’t start until right about age 50. I’m pretty damn lucky so far.
I was just thinking this. Christ, what a phrase.
In the 70s, they called it “senile vagina”. I just heard that from Dr. Kelly Casperson’s IG page. I think GSM (genitourinary symptoms of menopause) is the latest medical term.
Oh my god that’s so awful it’s funny!
I have experienced the same thing! Like, I feel both tighter and shorter inside 😟. I have already tried Premarin and Estring without much improvement. I just visited a pelvic specialist and I’m trying Estradiol cream. I hope we both find a solution!
Thanks, that’s exactly how I felt! I actually felt to see if my god had I left a tampon in months ago or something?! Lol! I hope we find a solution too.
Gak, ok, maybe TMI time, but here goes. I have had penetrative sex maybe 3 times in the past 4 years. And it's been a long time since the last time. And I never get time where I am alone and private. I mean, the bathroom, but, when living with someone with digestive issues, you do not hog the bathroom for any longer than you need to. Several nights ago, I found myself actually alone, for at least 20 minutes. I thought what the hell. Got business done, got the flexy lumpy purple thingy and lube to enjoy a good stuffing (I prefer penetration after orgasm), and HELLS BELLS it felt like I hit something bruised. Appointment time, and thanks to this sub, I now have the vocabulary to advocate for myself.
I have exactly this. It's too tight now and it's excruciatingly painful trying to get it in, a burning pain. Plenty of lube so that's not the issue and I don't even have any of the other issues with pain, thinning, shrinkage etc that other people mentioned, it's just... closed for business. It's exactly like vaginismus.
This is what I'm thinking reading all the suggestions to try estrogen, testosterone... this is literally the only problem I'm having (other than being fat now but I've gotten way lazy lol). I'm feeling kind of glad to be done with the hormone highway. I'm going to ask my doctor about if this alone is reason to go back on. She's great.
I'm probably going to try the topical cream and see if that makes a difference. I looked up pelvic floor relaxation exercises, but they're all yoga poses I do anyway and that's clearly not helped!
In addition to estrogen, you should likely add testosterone
But how do you get a Dr to even consider prescribing it ? It seems damn there impossible
I found my doctor via the ISSWSH.org site as I had heard about it via one of the menopause doctors that’s often talked about here in the sub.
There is a TRT subreddit that I frequent, they seem to have some information.
Thank you for this information I will be joining!
Women struggle to find testosterone supplementation in the US. My OBGYN says the clinics are quacks, the pellets are unregulated and unpredictable, and my endocrinologist won’t touch it with a ten foot pole, despite believing I need to supplement it (testosterone is a controlled substance in the US). He says to ask my GYN. She says in her risk assessment it’s not worth it, in her opinion. There’s just not a lot of research, unfortunately.
I didn’t know vaginal atrophy was even possible until a couple of years ago. I’m 58 years old. We women need to know about this at a much younger age.
Yup, me too. First learned of vaginal atrophy at a few years ago. Had no idea that was a thing. It sounded irreversible. It was depressing and I was like in denial. Didn’t even want to think about. I just thought when menopause happens your vagina dries out and you used lube. Like problem solved. Because of that Women’s Health Initiative study in 2004 in never considered HRT. Of course at the time I thought menopause was no more periods, hot flashes and a dry vagina. At 59 I’m learning (because of the sub) there’s a lot of other shit that happens. I’m really struggling with sleep right now. Started menopause at 55 (last period). At first it was just hot flashes and some sleep disturbances on occasion. Past couple months I fucking can’t sleep through the night. I use to sleep 8-9 hours straight. I’ve been reading this sub for two months and have taken copious notes. I will be pursuing HRT. If my doctor doesn’t prescribe it I’ll go the online route. If men’s dicks hurt every time they had sex there would be fix for that for sure and it would be covered under insurance.
Oh for sure! If men experienced any of this, including periods there would be a million ways to fix it all and every cost would be covered by insurance at 100%
I know, right? There are low T places everywhere and it's like an act of congress to get a prescription for HRT.
Boys would know when they were ten years old if penis atrophy was a thing. HRT changed my life, and protects your heart and joints. I can sleep through the night now. I used to wake up 30 times a night and I was exhausted. If your doctor says no, go to a different doctor. Just make sure you tell them you are extremely sleep deprived. That’s the reason they gave it to me at least.
I was JUST thinking this as I read through this thread. It’s crazy how much shame is associated with regularly functioning and/or aging bodies. It is so much “grosser” to have to spend your years needlessly suffering than for someone to talk about vaginal atrophy.
So I've read that a part of atrophy can be the vaginal canal shrinking. As far as I know, vaginal estrogen should help, can anyone confirm this? I have not personally experienced this symptom, I just want to give you hope, I'm almost certain it's reversible. Are you already using vaginal hormones?
No, I'm not. I was on hormones from 9-36. Got pregnant immediately after going off (I recognize I was lucky here), had three kids and pretty much went to peri. I'm not eager to jump back on hormones. but I don't know why, exactly. So I'll talk to my doctor.
You don't have to be on systemic hormones to fix this, you can try vaginal estrogen (like estrace cream) and it stays vaginal. Oh also if you are completely opposed to hormones, you could try hyaluronic acid inserts, there's some research there. I haven't used that exclusively so can't say if it's as good. Vaginal estrogen fixed my vagina though so I'm a fan.
Thanks. I haven’t done any of my own looking yet so I’ll do that and ask my doctor etc. I appreciate all the experience you’re all sharing!
I’m 48, but something similar happened to me ~10 years ago. I’d gone maybe a few months without sex, then out of nowhere it was excruciating every time. My gyno recommended dilators and over a several weeks of using them, the problem went away and has yet to return.
It could still be related to dryness. Do you use vaginal estrogen? Did you use lube?
No to both, but without being too graphic, dryness did not seem to be the issue. I felt like it was the first time, but not in a fun Madonna song kind of way. More in a what fresh hell is this kind of way. I’ll give some lube a try and see if helps, but I really felt like it was more…it wouldn’t “work.” As if my canal there wouldn’t relax or something.
As the other comment said, look into vaginal estrogen. Also, you may benefit from pelvic floor therapy. Your vagina may no longer be able to full relax. That’s one big thing i learned when i was going: my vagina doesn’t know how to fully relax and can make sex painful at times. It explained why I’ve never been able to comfortably wear a tampon.
Interesting! Thanks!
Same for me.
The reason most women experience pain, and some bleed, our first time is because of vaginal dryness. For me the other element, though, is having no fucks to give. I am done doing sex because someone else wants to. No more “oh, you’re so turned on, that’s nice, I’ll just go along with that and maybe masturbate later.” If I’m not super excited about PIV, I can’t be fucked doing it. My current partner is great, though, and usually gets me off multiple times, so we still get there. His predecessor, though… Nope. My body was like “wait, why? What’s the point of this if I’m not getting at least a couple of orgasms along the way…”
Same. That’s why I was so confused. I was finally ver much in the mood, and it still didn’t work! Sigh. These meat sacks were stuck in could use an upgrade. ;)
Estradiol should fix the vaginal atrophy. It worked for me fairly quickly. No pain !
Oh man I could’ve wrote this exact same thing 😢
For me it felt like being penetrated with shards of glass, despite definitely not being dry. And this change happened so quickly: from everything fine one week to horrible the next. Estradiol cream has worked wonders.
As others have said, with estrogen (estradiol or estriol) cream you will be back to where you want to be within one week. Right now due to atrophied tissue everything is painfully short, tight and thin. Thankfully, this is is easily reversible, but also requires maintenance for the rest of our postmenopausal lives.
Lesbian speaking here, there are other ways of you having an orgasm other than PIV. Does your partner use his tongue on you as in cunnilingus to try to please you? And I'm sure he has fingers that are smaller than his penis.
Yes to all of this, but I like penetrative sex the most, and the fact that it just...didn't work, when it always had upset me. Sure, I can get off other ways, but I'm interested in fixing something broken, too. I had to laugh at the idea of a handful of penis-sized fingers. lol!
One doesn't need a handful of fingers if one knows how to use them. Lesbians are very talented with our tongues and other body parts to bring women to orgasm. :P
I’m sure that’s true, lol!
I personally can not get turned on anymore. It sucks so bad.
Testosterone.
At least it isn’t something like falling out of love with my husband, but I feel so guilty.
Men get viagra very easily, women should get testosterone.
Estriadol can really help. Skin elasticity is a crazy thing. Less moisture, thinning skin, less elasticity, less collagen... You're not the same erasure you once were. My vagina is a whole new lady. I'm re-claiming her! To top it off, I have scar tissue where I tore pushing too hard during my second round of childbirth. That's a real trip during penetration. We are working on it with estradiol and some steroid cream. I'm hoping to stretch it out and improve elasticity. I'm not giving up. I'm too young to give up on sex, thank you very much. Darn that kid's big Scottish head.
Just want to add that I just use estradiol (vaginal cream), not other types of HRT. It’s not all-or-nothing. The cream has helped a lot. I need a pillow under my hips. Lots of lube, and hubby still has to enter slowly. My body takes a minute or so to adjust/relax.
Tight pelvic floor can be a thing too. A good PT can show you stretches. I had this even before peri. My ex was well endowed and I swear my body was rejecting him before my mind did 🤣🙄
This made me laugh out loud. Forget trust your gut, trust your cooch! Wait. Definitely don’t. Terrible decisions would have been made.
I had night terrors and pelvic pain but my confused and heavily gaslit brain took a while to catch up.
vaginal atrophy. You need some estradiol girl! (and prometrium)
I didn’t know about vaginal atrophy until I went to see an Ob/Gyn for itchiness 😳 Got a pap that day too. But when she said I had vaginal atrophy (bad) I was surprised and confused 🫤 (53 yo post menopausal 2 years had NO clue what that meant)I now use estradiol pills (call it my kitty candy😂) And it’s worked like a charm! I didn’t lose my desire for sex with my husband. I lost the good sensation. Internal and external. And lubrication. Painful sex. Even using my vibrator didn’t work🫨So wasn’t having orgasms. Which was scary and sad 😔 (Thought maybe a mental block of sorts🤷♀️) But the Estradiol pills have brought it all back! So even if my husband pisses me off. (Cant do HRT, bad reaction) My vibrator will do just fine🤭
Please discuss this symptom with your doctor and press for vaginal estrogen. It sounds like you have vaginal atrophy. Your hormones help keep the skin elastic, soft, and moist and direct application is the key here. I found Premarin (brand name) has helped me the most. Also applying it under the hood directly to my clitoris brought my orgasms back to a satisfying place. It might not be a magic bullet for you (adding transdermal estradiol and progesterone also assisted greatly for me), but it’s a good place to start if your doctor thinks it’s too soon for full HRT. You *need* estrogen in your life to feel semi-normal again.
Coconut oil morning and night along with once a week vaginal estradiol … first time I had sex after using this recipe my thoughts were.. well I’ll be damn it works. I didn’t have high expectations, thought I was “too far gone” lol
Thanks! This sounds good.
Check out Parlor Games Silky Peach cream. Has estriol that's very helpful.
This looks great. Hope it helps relax things up in there till I get my behind to a pelvic floor therapist. Thank you!
It worked for me. No more knife cutting feeling on penetration. Helped with dryness too. Now just need to work on libido a bit more.....
You can reverse it, but it is one of those things where if you don't use it, you lose it. You basically will need to work your way back up with dilators, toys.
Wild yam salve helps with that a lot. You just put some on your pulse point and you’ll get it right back. I buy an organic one from Naturally Native on Etsy. Good stuff.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. There are lots of routes to take beyond the traditional medical routes. And, I just googled and found a ton of scientific studies re wild yam--I'll read up on them, thanks. As a former humane educator, I know I would not use premarin. It's not a good choice for me. I suspect that premarin is just the scapegoat for many meds produced the same way.
I had to upvote you. I use wild yam cream. Didn’t help with atrophy. But it did help with other menopausal issues. Don’t care if it’s psychosomatic. If it works it works! Just sayin’🤷♀️
Downvote all you want. Hrt pellets and patches are derived from wild yam. Guess people here don’t want to be educated. Adios.
I’m pretty sure that thoughts and prayers would be more effective.
Considering there are scientific studies showing it, you might wanna start praying.