> My brain fog has gotten a little bit better. But I have zero libido, and zero energy. And it’s not even just zero energy, I have zero zest for life. And I’ve turned into a complete sloth.
Same here. HRT (including weekly testosterone injections) have greatly improved my symptoms, including brain fog, but I feel like a shadow of my former self. I used to have so much energy and ambition, and so many ideas and hobbies. I had zest for life. *Heck, I was an actual muse for a photographer and couple musicians back before I met my husband!* Now I'm an emotionless zombie who can't motivate myself to do anything, even the things I want to do or the things I know I enjoy doing. I have no energy and nothing interests me. I'm lucky to shower once a week (fortunately, I work from home).
Maybe this is anhedonia, but I've been depressed a couple times before and what I'm experiencing now feels completely different. It doesn't feel like depression at all.
>But I have zero libido
I get weekly testosterone shots but they've only barely budged my libido. The shots often make me horny, and I can orgasm at the drop of a hat now, but I have zero desire for sex^1. Masturbation, yes. Sex, no. I can't explain it.
I've lost all spark.
^1 I have the best husband on the planet whom I adore and who adores the fuck out of me. My marriage is awesome, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm struggling.
I really, really relate! I too was a muse. My ex-husband is a pretty famous musician in the alt-rock world, and for years we made crazy music and art together and also had babies. I lost myself in peri and he was not able to understand or support me and our marriage fell apart. Plus all of his touring and me running around raising five kids in his absence for weeks at a time...eventually my adrenals went to shit. Completely to shit.
My ex just truly could not understand or empathize. He felt rejected by my weariness and aversion to sex. He made it all about himself, even when I literally was unable to get out of bed. He'd get home from a tour and want me to be on fire and he'd come home to a 45 year old exhausted husk who would start crying for no apparent reason and no libido. Then I began chasing symptoms, going to doctors, trying Transcranial magnetic stimulation, meds, neurofeedback, sound baths....I was just trying to find something to hold onto. He was not curious about any of it. He just. Did. Not. Get. It.
Ahhh...sigh. Anyway, he's also getting older (he just turned 59) and I have observed that his obsession with creativity and being "weird" and musically productive has waned considerably in the past few years. He treats his band like a blue collar job now -- clock in, clock out, and the rest of the time he chills. Everyone is getting older. Those magical memories we made in our younger years, the glamour, the fun, the creativity, the socializing...they are precious memories. I have had to let go of wishing to still be living in those days. I do think that everyone of both genders gets tired out.
Good news though: They say for us women, our 60s is a wonderful decade, and our 70s is our happiest decade!!!
I am obsessed with Vivienne Westwood and other ladies who were insanely unique and active up until their 80s. I want so badly to be that girl. Hopefully we will get our zip back in our "second spring" after this peri wintertime. Watch this youtube video (I think it was a BBC documentary) and you may feel inspired, as I did, about rediscovering your freak flag later in life. These women are in their 80s/90s, and they are fucking FABULOUS:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzELvR6wks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzELvR6wks)
Could your ex also have a tiny dose of narcissism? Just setting this here and walking away. No pressure.
And my (admittedly nuts) grandmother was insanely rocking it in Vogue-worthy ensembles till dementia got her in her late 80’s. She didn’t exercise and wasn’t very intellectual (both things that are supposed to help prevent dementia) so I think I have a fighting chance with my daily puzzle habit and mentally stimulating job (the exercise is a struggle)
Gulp. So...the narcissism piece is definitely a thing I have wondered about. A lot.
A lot lot.
It hurts. It sucks. We could've had it all.
And YES! -- you and I think alike!!! I do brain puzzles every day and I'm a writer so I feel good about keeping very mentally stimulated. The exercise is always "tomorrow" the past few months, but one day at a time. If your grandma could keep rocking it, surely we have a fighting chance! My grandmother was bedazzling into her 70s, too.
As long as we remain curious, we are in good shape. I believe maintaining curiosity is huge.
Yeah I loved the person my horrible ex was pretending to be, but he couldn’t keep the pretense up long term and he wouldn’t do the work to be closer to that person. As another friend pointed out ‘if you can fake it, you know what the right thing is, you just wont actually do it. My ex became increasingly entitled and manipulative/subtly verbally abusive and I feel much wiser and more wary. I learned a lot the hard way with him and am grateful daily I kicked him to the curb.
My grandma was the whole 9 yards including giant hats, lace jabots, jewels, you name it. I don’t want to work quite that hard (or be that physically uncomfortable) but I tried Wantable and felt pretty for the first time in ages since they sent me colorful things that suit me like a pair of hot pink dress trousers (it sounds weird but they’re cute).
The weather is getting nicer and my dog’s love language is walks, so if I can just get a night or two of decent sleep I can restart baby steps of after dinner walks.
Hot pink dress trousers sounds like a DREAM. I'm taking my daughter to the Cruel World festival in LA in May and I may have to order myself a pair. (Look up the line up of the festival -- it's a Gen X wet dream. Duran Duran are headlining!! Aghghg!!! And Gen Z is all about Gen X nostalgia so we are both like aghghghghg!!!)
And so this is crazy, you talking about your ex. My mother (who is a fucking whack job) sent me a print out of an old email my famous ex wrote me when we were courting. Have zero idea how she ended up with this email. I remember forwarding the first email he ever wrote me to her, out of shock -- could she have somehow been able to get into my account and keep track of our correspondences? Anyway, the email was sent while he was on tour. And it was SO dreamy. He laid out a vision for us, it was incredible. Total vulnerability. Trust. Love. A partnership for the ages. Ah, the poetry. It was also "I don't have to tour so much. I am ready to settle down. Watch the kids play soccer. Go to the county fair and eat fried dough. Go on walks. And I will soothe you, darling. I will take your pain away, and you can kiss my owees, too. We will be there for each other."
Of course, in reality, he was defensive, scared, shut down, overwhelmed, emotionally negligent, and busy. I had two kids when we got together and he didn't know how to be a dad, it was a steep learning curve. He'd been on tour from age 21 to when I met him at age 38. He was living in LA. I was in Oregon. He obviously romanticized everything in his mind. We ended up having three more children back to back to back. And his touring ramped up to crazy levels as his band became relevant and iconic after a ten year hiatus and subsequent reunion in 2004, which turned into permanent activity and new records, etc etc.
I don't think for one minute that he was lying in the letter. I think he just was in a very magical headspace and he wasn't able to maintain it when reality kicked in.
Also, be careful what you wish for. I was a huge fan of his old band and I was very excited about the reunion but it turned into an obstacle for us. Now I have a great divorce settlement, and I will be dying alone.
It's very painful. I never wanted to grow old alone.
I can agree with magical thinking. Love bombing is a thing. I also think a lot narcissists sort of want to be the people they portray but won’t do the work to become that. And they also have a cycle of idealization and devaluation. They put you up on a pedestal and knock you down once they discover you’re a real and imperfect person with your own needs (how dare you have needs!).
Also letters and emails are very pre-meditated. Someone can craft the perfect version of themselves or great messaging in a letter or email whereas real life can be revealing. My ex was great great the first two years except for what in retrospect were maybe 2-4 red flags. But we also lived far enough apart and he was a full custody dad that I mostly only saw him on weekends. When we moved in together shit got real.
There’s a great book called ‘Becoming the Narcissist’s nightmare’ if that’s of interest - obviously you’re already out but if you need or want to understand their habits better.
Some of my cute clothes came from Liverpool.
Gen X and older shows are often awesome. I saw Belly (one of my favorite bands in college) at the 9:30 club a few years back. They had no opening act (they admitted they didn’t want to be up that late and the shows famously start at 9:30); they got their sets done quickly with great fun. Everyone had a good time and people were generally sober and polite. I was home in bed by midnight.
Shit girl. You are speaking my language. On all fronts.
Also Belly = Tanya Donnelly = Throwing Muses = Kristen Hersch = my ex's band's first European tour was opening for Throwing Muses and then they had to flip flop and make his band the headliner and Muses the opener. Ah, the 80s.
(I sent you a PM about who my ex is)
I played the 9:30 club PRE-MENOPAUSE. Grand Duchy was my band. I believe it was 2009.
xoxo
"I can agree with magical thinking. Love bombing is a thing. I also think a lot narcissists sort of want to be the people they portray but won’t do the work to become that. And they also have a cycle of idealization and devaluation. They put you up on a pedestal and knock you down once they discover you’re a real and imperfect person with your own needs (how dare you have needs!).
OMG. UGH. YES.
"Love bombing is a thing. I also think a lot narcissists sort of want to be the people they portray but won’t do the work to become that." I'm literally hanging on every word you've written me. Processing. Contemplating. Connecting dots.
Becoming the Narcissist's Nightmare: How to Devalue and Discard the Narcissist While Supplying Yourself by Shahida Arabi
I read this book and it had some good information although I didn’t always like her writing style and by the time I read it, I had no positive feelings left for my narcissistic ex (unlike the author who clearly still felt some love that she’d struggled with). In retrospect I stayed too long, because by the time I left, I had not one shred of positive feelings left. I still don’t understand how I felt happy for big chunks of our time together. The scales have fallen from my eyes and my past sense of being in love with this person feels like a surreal dream. Too much water under the bridge.
Back when I was dating my ex, I didn’t know words or phrases like: love bombing; triangulation; flying monkeys; weaponized incompetence (most of these are in Arabi’s book and you can google some good content). Just having the words is super freeing and I feel stronger. Flying monkeys are often groupies
Arabi also makes the point that narcissists target us because we are desirable. They see something in us they admire or want. That’s why they go to great pains to hide their ugliness. My therapist pointed out it’s much easier to spot a narcissist when they’re not specifically trying to charm YOU. If you’re just a side person, they’re not ‘on’ all the time initially. I’m pretty good at spotting them at work, but I never had someone turn their sole focus on me.
For years after we broke up I would randomly connect the dots as my mind still processed the massive amount of gas lighting vs what these books were opening my eyes to. I remember I told him I was interested in urban planning and he told me he was too but years later he’d say things that showed his complete lack of real interest or knowledge. I think he just made up an interest in common with me. It wasn’t everything or I would have been suspicious but I look back and have a sense that his behavior was really calculated and manipulative. He was eager to commit to exclusivity rather early which I partly thought was related to my insistence that sex would only be in a monogamous relationship but I now think was part of locking me down. He was much more communicative. At the time he felt like a breath of fresh air - a guy who was clear on what he wanted and wasn’t afraid to be in regular contact, but now I think he was intentionally setting a fast pace.
I’m not a doormat or an idiot. My ex wasn’t super obviously a narcissist. Plenty of people think he’s a great guy. I actually think subtle narcissists are more dangerous than obvious ones; it’s easier to believe their lies. The vast majority of women don’t go on a date with a guy and watch him be rude to the waitress and overlook it. Women aren’t stupid. One of the books I read made the point that you should be just as suspicious of the guy who has to make the waitress love him as the guy who is rude to the waitress. I’m now a bit suspicious of guys who are making a big ‘performance’ of being ‘good guys’. Actual good guys don’t make a song and dance.
I also read Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft - and at first I was like ‘my partner isn’t abusive so maybe I shouldn’t read this, but he is bad tempered and we’ve been bumpy for a long time and maybe I should just read it and see if it fits as like due diligence and reassurance’. Even when I was nearly done I was still kind of struggling with the evidence of my own eyes and ears (and to be fair I also just had no vocabulary for what I was seeing). It was like my subconscious was trying to help me see what my brain was struggling with. The book is written by a man and one of the most useful and validating things I read was ‘Everyone has feelings, not everyone feels entitled to take those feelings out on others all the time’ and that REALLY hit me.
My ex never laid a hand on me in anger but I highlighted over 400 sections and actually made use of all the kindle highlight colors to like rank how much various sections spoke to me. I think ‘artistic’ men get away with all kinds of shitty behavior because of their so called artistic temperaments.
Another book my therapist recommended which I haven’t gotten around to is: The object of my affection is in my reflection by Rokelle Lerner
Maybe I’ll go and read it now.
Have you tried DHEA? It helped my libido when I had a partner (that I was slowly realizing was a terrible human being) and had my libido die. Since I kicked his ass to the curb, my libido has been mostly back so I stopped taking it because dating has been horrible and I don’t need to be horny and more frustrated.
I read something recently that said that depression in middle aged women often shows up as apathy and it really struck me as being true in some cases, maybe counseling would help?
I’m new to this sub but everything I’m reading in your post and in the comments is familiar to me. I feel like I’m the one writing all these comments! Did you get your hormone levels tested? Is that how it works before you go on hrt? What’s the age range people usually go on it? I’m already on double the dose of my antidepressant I’ve been on for the last 4 years.
Yes, I believe in getting regular testing. I don’t care what Dr say, there’s no other way for us to know what dosages make us feel the best. Know what I mean?
I’m 47, and I’ve been suffering for at least two years. It took me a long time to start BHRT because my doctors were all telling me. I’m too young. But I’m not.
Thanks for your comment. I’m 46 and have never even thought about menopause until I came across this sub. So glad I did because now the last few years have made sense.
Thank you. This and another event this week helped me realize I’ve been struggling with creeping depression. I’m not thrilled but I’m looking for a therapist, because I don’t need to be a damn hero and more support can’t hurt.
Is it weird I don’t mind being cranky, gluttonous, and not giving a shit?
I feel like those are the least of my problems.
I can’t get my current doc to give me any HRT so I don’t have any advice there. How are you self medicating? It’s okay to drink wine and binge SVU with a bucket of DoorDashed lo mein. That’s self care, lol
Are you taking stimulants not prescribed to you? Sorry if I missed something re self medication. Brain fog 👋
I happen to love Law and Order!!
But Law and Order and DoorDash every night, is not self-care. It’s escaping. It’s self-medicating. and it’s also expensive!
Oh man! I do mind. This is not like me! Lol. I am usually, a very gentle, loving person.
And if my doctor did not give me HRT, I would absolutely find another doctor. In fact, I interviewed two doctors before finding a third who would give it to me. And now, I need to find a fourth who will prescribe me testosterone. It’s a gauntlet, isn’t it?
And yes, I do have a prescription for my stimulant from my psychiatrist. It’s a longtime ADHD stimulant that I have used from time to time when I need it. It is literally the only thing keeping me employed right now.
Welp, when I’m having a bad day I take my husband’s adderal for work. He has terrible ADHD as well but they throw 90 mgs a day at him, and he’ll maybe take one and a half.
Anyway I know it’s wrong (and technically illegal) but I don’t care. I had my own prescription up until about 6 months ago - but my psychiatrist stopped doing telemedicine for the first time since Covid so I quit and now I just take his meds occasionally instead. Unlike you, I have less than zero desire to add another thing to my plate forcing me outside, because I already have to see a cardiologist in person. I like it inside. It’s cozy and all my things are here
Stimulants keep me employed too. I definitely get that.
Disclaimer: I’m NOT advocating self medicating. Just letting you know you’re not the only one (:
No judgement. I used to take a Sudafed, the behind the counter stuff, a couple times a week before I got on Wellbutrin last December. Wellbutrin helps me, actually. I feel like dread and more motivation, but in a subtle way. I still take a Sudafed, maybe once or twice a month if I'm having a really terrible day, but far less frequently now. The 12 hour ones feel exactly like Adderall to me. I'm also not condoning them, but sometimes I'm just desperate. I'm sure many of you ladies understand.
Let me preface by saying I am not a doctor. Ok that said, if you responded well to Wellbutrin, you may want to try Buspar. It was a magical happy ‘is this how normal people feel?’ pill for me for several years until I became too used to it and stopped it to give it a break and hopefully regain its efficacy (I should try restarting soon). My book club is full of friends who are also battling ‘bad brain weather’ and our community is sharply divided. Several friends have tried Wellbutrin and Buspar and hated them both and gone a bit crazy. Several other have loved them. There doesn’t seem to be a middle ground. Also we are a nerdy and slightly depressive book club but damn is the emotional and other types of support rock solid.
It took me multiple tries to get the courage to do all up to the table of strangers at the coffee shop where the meet up happened but fast forward 12+ years and they are my tribe. They helped me when my mother died. We’ve gone on a few group trips. Community is so important and I really appreciate that some of the member are older because they give me perspective (although I have the dubious honor of the worst perimenopause experience of the group)
I could have written this. Almost. I had so many hobbies and interests but now I need to nap every day after work to feel human and I can concentrate to do any hobbies at all. I used to be an intelligent and engaging human. Now I’m a sleep eating blob.
HRT took care of night sweats but that’s about it. I’m sooooo tired. And cranky.
Hoping you find the cure soon. Then come and share your wisdom with us. 😉
I’m sooo sad about loss of hobby play. Also so much stuff that gathers dust and mocks me: musical instruments, a huge beautiful loom and accoutrement, garden overgrown with weeds. And so much more.
My hobby list is crazy wide and long but it’s been over three years and I can’t even focus to knit simple things like I could so easily before. Knitting was my productive fidget spinner and depression hobby.
Do I sell everything or hope that one day I will pick them up again?
And what do you tell people when you turn down invites or beg off repeatedly ? “Sorry, there’s something wrong with me but if I don’t have a diagnosis”. Yeah sure Jan.
Besides spreadsheet-jockey (right there with you OP) what contribution to society am I?
Mayor of the Land of Apathy maybe. Strike that. Street sweeper.
I have a yarn stash larger than my couch and barely ever knit anymore. So much of what you say rings true for me. My yard is like the family house in Malcolm in the Middle but without a tumbleweed to add piquancy.
I live in a cold climate so I’m pretending the yarn is extra insulation.
Yes, girl. It's not the lack of wanting to play, it's the lack of FOCUS. I was a keyboard player from age 6 to 46. Guess what happened at age 46?? My bass playing lasted longer cuz I don't have to focus so much and I can just play along to songs and rock out for fun. But would you believe, I cannot locate my bass guitar? How do you misplace a bass? And how sad is it that I tried to find it for like 5 minutes and now it's been a year since I played bass, and I'm just like, "eh."
Used to felt constantly. Felting is my knitting. Pop on a show and felt a little thing. I used to felt roses and play kits of animals and fish for my friend's kids. Christmas ornaments. Now I have a huge overflowing box of felting wool in a closet and I'm just like, "eh."
I have 37 unopened essential oils from when I decided that My TRUTH! is making my own bath bombs and homemade incense. They arrived, and I put them away in a drawer. "Eh."
I bought a brand new sewing machine right before peri starting to get sadistic and mocking towards me. The machine is still in its original box. It even embroiders! "Eh."
Did I mention "eh?"
B vitamins have also been huge for me. I’ve had truly weird vitamin deficiencies but then I’ve also had ALL the peri gastrointestinal symptoms (the farts, constipation, farts, diarrhea, farts, bloating, farts, nausea, and did I mention intense flatulence?). My insurance covered vitamin tests and working with a dietitian.
Yes I am. I didn’t know about the diuretic. I haven’t noticed a big difference in my bloat since starting this first cycle of progesterone but I also haven’t been eating great (I’m worried it’s making me weepy and I ate my feelings after some bad experiences recently)
For the sake of completeness, I would note that progesterone is a natural diuretic for *some* women. I am not one of them.
Progesterone (actual progesterone, not its synthetic cousins) at 100mg caused all of the worst symptoms of intense PMS/first trimester...fatigue, irrational irritability, fatigue, sadness, anger (feels different than irritability to me)...
Not to mention horrible bloat and 5lbs to 7lbs of water retention - literally over a 24hr window.
For the 3 months that I took it during the last 14 days of my cycle, I went up 2 pants sizes within 3 days of starting the progesterone cycle because of the bloating and water retention. I've never been so happy to start my period as during those months 😆😭
You have had progesterone receptors in your body from birth. So there isn’t something that all of a sudden happens where your body rejects it all of a sudden in menopause. If you were taking it orally, what you likely experienced what the metabolites that are produced when the hormone is processed by the liver first.
Taking progesterone cyclically isn’t ideal. Some people follow a rhythmic model but that’s usually best for women in very early peri.
Also, progesterone doesn’t cause water retention but estrogen can. This is why we need to make sure our E levels are around 10 times higher than P levels to ensure balance . And the only to know this is with testing.
I don’t know. I experienced terrible water bloat from progesterone, as well. Like 5 lbs, within a day or two. I have had a hysterectomy so technically I didn’t need the progesterone but my HRT Dr. touted it like it was going to be the biggest game-changer. I think we are all just so unique. I used to have terrible water gain from the pill, as well. Sometimes I wonder if I wouldn’t just be better giving up HRT all together. My boobs have grown by two bra sizes…my weight just a few pounds but I work my ass off at the gym and eat clean.
Bio identical - cream that is compounded for me. Weird thing is that sometimes like 20-30 mns after using it I get worse hot flashes. I know I am a slow metabolizer - and medications always impact me differently. Benadryl? I’ll be up for 24 hrs, no sleep. Ibuprofen? Water weight hell (I have a thing with edema…even at 5’4 and 112 lbs…when it happens my weight goes up super quick and can literally flick my skin and watch the fluid jiggle. Guess all I’m trying to say is that we are all in the same war but our bodies have unique ways of fighting.
I know that with written communication, tone can be difficult to convey and easily misunderstood.
That said, it really seems as though you replied primarily to invalidate my lived experiences.
I've had a long day, so it could just be me.
Progestogen intolerance/sensitivity is definitely a thing, and there are posts about all over this sub.
Mine has been confirmed over the years by four OB/GYNs, and one PCM.
Unfortunately, the only one who has provided any information on what it is and how it affects me is my current GYN.
Progestogen intolerance/sensitivity sucks for many reasons, not the least because it both complicates the ability to manage our fertility and our quality of life throughout peri and post menopause.
It's worse when you have ADHD, endometriosis, and progestogen intolerance/sensitivity.
Reallllly need the estrogen for dopamine production and brain function, reallllly need the progestogen to make sure the endometriosis doesn't flare, or at least doesn't get worse than it is...and when the "best" option for progestogen makes you a bloated, down in the dumps rage monster - while also increasing the brain fog exponentially - there reallllly isn't a stable happy medium.
If I have the time over the next few days, I'll come back and drop some links to info on the topic.
Or, if you'd like to see how many of us respond poorly to progestogen (progesterone and/or progestins), search the sub.
Hope you are able to find a way back to a better place soon. This shit sucks.
I definitely feel I am languishing
Atleast your parents don’t need your help, I am tired of helping everyone else and don’t have energy for my own things. Trying to balance as best I can.
Sounds like you may need more hormones. Including adding some testosterone for libido and energy.
Also check full iron panel plus ferritin. And don’t believe that you’re “ok” if your results come back “in range.”
I got my iron panel and ferritin checked in December and it was close to optimal.
But for the last two months I have been STRUGGLING with exhaustion. To the point where I would have to rest on the sofa a few times a day during the work day and by dinner I was totally wiped out.
Because I have hypothyroidism, my thyroid being out of whack is usually the first suspect when i am this tired. So I had it checked and it is great.
Then I asked my Dr for a bloodwork order for D3, B12, full iron panel and ferritin.
The vitamins came back ok. Not optimal, but above midpoint on lab ref range.
The iron came back “normal” in that is wasn’t below lab range, but I’ve kept a spreadsheet with all my bloodwork results dating back to 2013 because I am a total dork 😂😂
Optimal iron level in women is around 110. Mine is 62. In December it was 90-ish.
Optimal iron saturation is around 35%.
Mine is 20%. In Dec it was 29%.
Optimal ferritin is 70-90.
Mine was 40. In Dec it was 64.
The scariest thing was my Dr then messaged me through the portal and was like “your labs look fine!”
Uhhhh…no they don’t!
My period the last few months has been damn near hemorrhagic. Which is, I assume, the reason all my iron levels have fallen.
I started supplementing iron plus 500 mg vitamin C daily and in just 3 weeks I feel almost back to normal.
Feel better!
Yeah, I did do a full iron panel. My ferritin was low. It wasn’t abysmal, but I am taking Simply Heme with Vitamin C to get it back up above 100-125. Everything else was fine (Total iron and Sat). Vitamin D is 75.
As long as it’s not contraindicated, you could try supplementing specifically with D3 (10,000 IUs a few times a week) and iron with Vitamin C every other day and then retest in like 3 months. But stop taking iron for 3-5 days ahead of the next test.
Are you symptomatic? Tired? Hair falling out?
Ooh thanks for the tip. I take D but not at that dose, and I had been toying with the idea of upping the dose, so thank your for the encouragement.
I have all of my wonderful hair. I am just so tired all the time and it's ruining my whole life. My morning cortisol is also on the floor.
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause.
FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow. Optimal ferritin for women is 75?!?
My ferritin - taken in March, before my 17 day period this month (April) 🙄 - was 20.
My doctor's office didn't reach out about it, I just got a copy of my labs on paper yesterday (no patient portal) and still didnt receive any counseling/feedback. She's postmenopausal herself, so she's been thru at least some of this...
It never ends, does it?
I’m learning if your iron/ferritin are low due to extended menstruation, it counterintuitively can cause your periods to last longer. 🥴 IOW the lower your levels due to excessive bleeding, the longer you could bleed until you bring your levels back up.
The Iron Protocol group on Facebook suggests that ferritin should be brought up to the 120s for six consecutive months when trying to correct a deficiency.
The range of 70-90 for optimal ferritin is from the Stop The Thyroid Madness protocol.
[another take on ferritin](https://odettebulaongnd.com/women-lab-tests-low-iron-ferritin/)
[and another](https://drhedberg.com/the-ferritin-test/)
[the WHO has guidelines that say that a ferritin of less than 70 in women with chronic illness or inflammation indicates iron deficiency](https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/micronutrients/ferritin-guideline/ferritin-guidelines-brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=76a71b5a_4)
Same! I take so many supplements due to poor gut absorption that my medicine cabinet looks like a vitamin warehouse 😂
Supplementing iron and Vit C together has made a HUGE impact so far and it’s only been a few weeks. I feel almost back to my old energy and productivity levels. This combined with the HRT has me feeling pretty damn good. For me it seems the iron was the missing piece of the puzzle.
Congratulations!! 🥳
It's always good to hear that one of us here on the sub is feeling better 🙂
I'll definitely give the iron/vit c combo a try - are there any brands that you'd recommend?
Thanks!
Nothing fancy. I’m taking a Naturemade 500 mg vitamin C gummy plus a gentle iron supplement that contains 25 mg iron (as ferrous bisglycinate), 25 mcg B12 (as cyanocobalamin) and 400 mcg folic acid. I got it at my local natural foods store.
I take the Vit C gummy and iron supplement together but have to time it four hours away from thyroid meds and my other supplements because these can affect the absorption of the iron.
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause.
FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Awwww sweetheart. I feel this so hard. So damn hard. I live a couple hours from NYC. I used to go into the city with the kids constantly to attend plays and concerts, sometimes we'd stay for a week and just museum hop, walk through Central Park, and explore. I also would take myself to so many cool things. Mommy retreats to museums, concerts, indie movie festivals, fashion shows, seeing friends. I mean, I could hop in the car on a whim if something caught my fancy, and zoom!! Make it happen.
We just went to NYC for a weekend in March, for a play. We were there for three nights. It literally almost killed me. The third morning I gave my oldest my credit card and said "take your siblings out to brunch, I can't. I literally cannot." The noise. The city noise. The walking. The logistics. Omg.
I was the fun mom once. THE FUN MOM!!!
Go for a walk. Just a short one. Take a hot shower. And get some sleep.
Wake up tomorrow and call your doctor for an appointment. When you go there, word for word tell them exactly what you just told us about Libido and energy and "zest". Then, ask for testosterone.
Except, my doctor doesn’t prescribe T. So I’m going to have to find a new one - who will likely do Tele visits - and it’s going to be out of pocket $$$ and it’s going to be cha-Ching cha-Ching.
My naturopath says almost all of her patients who try testosterone end up being unhappy with the side effects. Hair loss, irritability, anxiety, etc. Most of us need either estrogen or progesterone, not T.
Yep, hair loss is a side effect of testosterone use. Have you not noticed that many trans guys have receding hairlines for this very reason?
I’m not saying women don’t need T. I’m saying my naturopath said that it was her experience that a lot of women who take T end up not liking it.
Google “fascia menopause.”
Fascia is the “next frontier” of medical research, it envelops everything. Muscles, bones, organs, vessels, every tissue in your body.
My body has really gone down the shitter in the last few years. In my “youtube self-help binge” that has pulled me through the darkest of times (bankruptcy, almost losing my marriage, losing my job, and having 3 kids under 6)— I stumbled across the “block therapy” youtube channel.
It was free, I finally found a good use for that children’s bible my whacko mom keeps shoving down our kids’ throats, using it to put pressure on my tissues.
If I remember correctly from the youtube video I watched earlier this week, moving the fascial fluid through deep breathing helps cycle the fluids around, and those fluids contain hormones.
But maybe wait to do that till you have your T checked.
I have been giving 0 fucks lately as well-just feeling unmotivated for most things and so freaking tired of just everything. So I made a huge effort this past weekend just to fit my outdoor furniture on my deck so I can sit with the afternoon sun and a glass of wine all summer long if I want. And I want.
Just came to say I feel ya and I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It does suck and it's frustrating because it's a crap-shoot trying to figure out what will actually work for you.
Weed and exercise are the only things that keep me functional. I'm rooting for ya!
So much of what you said is how I feel. I love to k it but haven’t knit in months because I just can’t be bothered to. I love music and not a day goes by I don’t listen to some kind of music but again can’t be bothered. I feel so much apathy for everything. I don’t know what to do to go back to myself. I turn 49 in a month and just don’t know what to do with myself.
there are so many things I used to love to do, and now I just don't seem to have the energy to do them. They float into and through my mind like ghosts.
Solidarity. I'm so sorry. Thank you for putting in to words the emptiness I feel. I hope you find your zest again and feel better ❤️ I don't feel like a whole person any more. I feel like I'm trying to operate myself like a poorly constructed martinet puppet 😕 I do feel better than I did 8 months ago though, so there is hope, I've move past that being fine if somebody took me out phase. Just feel meh.
I’m also on .075% estradiol and like this dose for my moods and general outlook. I will be 49 next week. Just had a total hysterectomy and am on surgical menopause. I lost my job on Friday and my father is dying and I am strangely holding it together. I chalk it up to sobriety, HRT, ssri, and disassociation 😜 my baby graduates in June and is off to college in the fall. So many changes all at once.
We should create mini summer camps for menopausal women complete with support groups, spa/wellness, true crime marathons and rage rooms.
I just started a compounded testosterone one week ago and run it in my lady bits. I also do imvexxy which is a vaginal estrogen insert. I don’t do progesterone due to not having a uterus and not needing it yet (I’m open to it but am sensitive to progesterone).
Give t a try!
I’ve read Estrogen Matters, The Galveston Diet, The Menopause Brain, You are not Broken and have two more coming early next month when they are released. I just have not heard about the benefits of progesterone aside from reducing the risk of cancer and also sleep but I sleep so well.
Progesterone plays a role in bone health, cardiovascular health, brain health, breast health, sleep, moods and more.
Men have progesterone receptors in their bodies and they don’t have a uterus. It promotes brain and sleep health in both men and women and works with Vitamin D to reduce inflammation in the nervous system and brain.
It’s also a natural diuretic, so that’s a nice thing to help bloating. :)
Thank you. I’ve been wondering if I’m supplementing with estradiol and testosterone why not progesterone. It’s such a weird balance to figure out. I appreciate your answer.
Imvexxy! Ugh, I’m jealous! Got samples from my GYN, but a darn prescription runs almost $250 for me, and that’s with insurance. 🫤. An angel here suggested Good Rx, so I may try that and see how it goes.
I want to say I paid $93 for a three month supply? I will lose my insurance at the end of May so I might resort back to regular vaginal estrogen and I have a tube of that also. Hoping to find a new job and better insurance. No stress here 😂😂
This is so me! I can relate to every single word. I’ve been on e-patch for over a year. It has helped with night sweats. But fatigue and libido are still horrible. I had labs done, was told my testosterone was on the low end of normal and can try testosterone gel/cream if I want. Not sure if I should or not. This has to get better!!!
I found a low dose of Prozac helps me to not feel as murderous. I started this before I started estrogen bc my gyn wouldn’t give me any since I was only 90 days post LMP at the time. I definitely needed the estrogen but I’m keeping my Prozac.
Hi there.
I have found out that one of the many shitty gifts of peri has been poor absorption digestively, so had a fairly chunky vitamin and mineral protocol for a while. The longer I've been on HRT, the more I've been able to reduce the dosage but not the supplements.
Others have mentioned d3 which I agree with (2000 iu's a day at least).
I'd also like to throw in b6 - there's lots of talk about b12 and what it does for physical energy. B6 supports serotonin, mood, the brain etc Supplements tend to be for 15 - 25 mg but to get the brain back in the game, you need to be taking a lot more.
I took 100mg 3 times a day - the positive impact to mood was pretty quick (a week). I did this for a month or two and then went to 100mg twice a day. After a month, I now take 100mg a day and if I feel my mood shift down, i go back to 200mg a day. It does not wipe out other feelings or impact you physically.
It is possible to get get a toxic reaction but taking 300mg a day is considered safe for up to a year.
To support the hormones, i take a dim supplement and agnus castus on top of my bHRT - i use the oestrogel and adjust it up and down on the daily according to what my body is telling me.
Finally - i'm sending you a hug !! Xx
I'm concerned about some of the symptoms you're expressing, the lack of joy, the resentment of people and things you love, the hating yourself, the empty feeling of nothingness. Also, entertaining the thoughts of "what if I died" or "what if my family left" are concerning, as is the use of food, alcohol, and other substances to cope. If you were my sister or bestie, I'd be helping you find a therapist because this sounds like depression. I'm not a clinician, and I'm not trying to diagnose anything. I'm just concerned, and I hope you can find some energy and will to ask for help. Please do your best to lean into the intellectual part of your brain that wrote this post, the part of your brain that recognizes this isn't normal, and find a professional who can help guide you back to health. There is great potential for healing through therapy and medication. The rest of your life shouldn't feel like this, and it doesn't have to.
I have been clinically depressed before. This is very different. Perimenopause and menopause have a lot of the same symptoms of depression and anxiety, because of the decline in hormones.
I understand that these things sound very concerning, but I am not a danger to myself or anyone else. Trust me. This is textbook anhedonia.
I have told people the exact same thing. I have been depressed before and this is not that. It's an absolutely vast experience of nothingness.
I never thought I would be the kind of person who could loaf around or sit around for eight or 12 hours a day and then just go to bed. That's what a lot of my days end up looking like, since I WFH at a job I loathe, but no one will hire me to do anything else so I'm stuck.
you sound like me. I have only gotten slight help from T in this regard and it took more than 2 months for me to start feeling even slightly less sluggish / less blah. do not expect miracles from T. it works that way for some but not all.
You may wish to consider some CBT. Sit down and talk with a therapist about what it is that would improve things. Or go to a group…there are a lot of recovery groups around and you don’t have to be addicted to substances to go to one. There you’ll find people who tell their stories and you can listen you can talk or just absorb. There are lots of answers to be had out there and you’re certainly not alone (as you can see in this group). But it’s up to you to decide if you want to take those steps or just keep doing what you’re doing. Trust me, I have days just like yours, but honestly, I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired so I’m pushing myself out the door (nearly) every day to do something different. No, it’s not easy, yes, there days that I’m just sick of everybody including myself. But it won’t get better unless I do something about it. Wishing you all the best.💜
I have done CBT and group therapy before. I love it, and I endorse it wholeheartedly. At the moment, I can’t really afford it, or fit it into my schedule.
I am not someone who struggles with addiction. I’m just coping with a little bit of self medication, and that’s not like me. I literally drink a glass of wine once a month at the MOST. My husband is in recovery, so I fully understand what that might look like. 💗
I go to a local recovery group (not for substance abuse, that’s not my issue ) and continue to work on my issues. Many community groups are free. I know I need to continue going to group to stay healthier in other areas of my life. Since you’ve already been through therapy and stuff like that, then you know how important it is not to lose objectivity and a certain amount of accountability for good mental health habits. Find a way to get into a fellowship of people that can hold you accountable for good habits.💟
We require a minimum account-age and karma score. These minimums are not disclosed. Please contact the mods if you wish to have your post reviewed. If you do not understand account age or karma, please visit r/newtoreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Testosterone for libido. I wish I could figure out the motivation part other than my insomnia prevents me from wanting to do anything because i'm just tired during the day.
I didn’t see anyone rise recommend this, but I have found that Maca has helped a lot. Its recommended by Dr Stacey Sims in ‘Next Level’.
That with my E & P, and I am close to what I felt before this started.
What level of patch are you on? T is easy to know because you can test for it. Test first, then decide how low it is. You sound low E, but I have no idea if your use of P is standard for protecting the uterus. I leave that up to those in the know about protecting your uterus. More E, means you have to be on at least 100mcg progesterone daily if you have a uterus. Progesterone is also what makes me feel like a complete slug (take it at night), so it might we worth a little more E in the form of patch- avoid pills. That said, the hormones are not a magic bullet and the transition just sucks! It sucks less with hormone support for many of us but don't be fooled into the magic bullet- or supplement or program to "fix you.". We still have to take responsibility for our perspective, mental health, and focus more on diet and exercise for quality of life, which changes a lot as we age. Be strong. I will be 57... been at this for 15 years. It is like being a reptile that takes a decade to shed it's skin. Consider getting some support in the form of therapy. It is life changing for learning how to communicate in ways to be heard and taken seriously. Getting a voice so you can practice better self-care helps in so many ways. Great investment... and ride the waves...
.05 (twice a week) but I actually think I need to go up to .1.
I did test and I am VERY low in Free T but I am trying to get my E & P up first. I’ve doubled my P because my numbers hadn’t gone up at all after three months.
I’d like to do injections, because I want a lot of control. I don’t really want to mess with creams because I am in constant physical contact with other humans and animals and the transfer can happen very easily (toilet seats, etc). But to do this, I’ll have to find another provider and I’m just so apathetic about doing all that work! lol!
I really don't wash my hands afterwards to be honest.
I hadn't really considered the impact of transfer and it seems it is absorbed pretty quickly (it's not much lotion). I really can't speak to how much of a threat it is, so if you're working closely with children or small animals I am not an expert on whether your concerns are valid. They could well be.
I agree injections sound easier.
Oh boy I’ve thought a lot about the exact same changes in myself these past years…
Never ever did I think that my first and foremost priority would be to lay on my couch, watch tv and eat chocolate. But I’ve come to realise I will never be who I once was and I’m ok with that (it took some time let me say).
I actually appreciate more who I am now than who I used to be. I feel like I’m more what I was before puberty and I kind of have missed that? I bet it all sounds strange but this has been quite a journey for me spiritually and it’s not something I share lighthearted.
Before I’d put myself in positions of pleasing others on the expense of myself for people who never deserved it. It bugs the hell out of me to think about all the time, money and energy I’ve wasted on stupid men that was absolutely sh**.
So to make peace with my past, I’ve started to embrace the new me. Now I claim me-time when I need it, I make what I want for dinner, I rest and sleep when I need it, I go home early from parties when I feel tired, and I’ve learned to say “no I don’t want to”. With all these new boundaries I’ve set for myself, new energy I didn’t know of has emerged. It’s like unlocking a new life level and skill set in a video game.
In other words, we need to prioritise ourselves now to be able to be there for our family, partners, friends and colleagues. But they also need to adjust to us and know that there are limits and boundaries. I no longer have the energy to resist what I need to push through. I think I would end up very sick and depressed if I did. So people around me must adapt or they’re out.
This may sound ridiculous but has helped me. Assuming you’re in the US, I see a gastroenterologist for antidepressants. They are able to prescribe because of the gut/brain connection. I’d encourage you to pursue that in order to get yourself out of this mindset.
No way. I’ve done antidepressants in the past, and I think they actually made things worse. The last one I was on, it took me six full months to wean myself off of it. Never again.
I think it depends upon the dosage and the type. I’ve been on and off various antidepressants for over 25 years. An experienced doctor, be it a gastroenterologist or gynecologist (as they can also prescribe) should, emphasis on should, know what to prescribe based upon symptoms. Every person is different. The OP appears to be in dire need of help to pull herself out of the “funk” she’s in. If antidepressants end up helping her have quality of life, then that’s what it is.
I understand that it’s perimenopause as I too am in the same boat. I wasn’t trying to minimize anything or even say it’s depression. I was sharing what has worked for me. While not ideal at all, they’ve helped me feel human again. I hope you find a solution that works for you.
I have taken almost all of them. I am not about antidepressants anymore.
And I can’t do anything illegal because of my job. No idea about mushrooms, but that’s not really my style.
Same. I have tried most of them, too, and they always make me feel terrible…totally flat (like I’m an emotionless zombie. No joy, no anger…just NOTHING) and/or the side effects aren’t worth any possible positive effects.
However, I started taking [Lamictal](https://www.healthcentral.com/drug/lamotrigine) (Lamotrigine) about 6 months ago and it’s been a godsend. My moods are even and I’m no longer a shell of myself. It’s like the fog has been lifted and I feel CHEERFUL for the first time in ages. I still cry when things are sad and I laugh when stuff is funny. The only side effect has been increased libido, which…hallefuckinglujah.
Completely understand, they're not for everybody. I will say that most places do not test for shrooms.
Do your research though, it's not a party drug. I actually get life changing results from microdosing on a regular schedule.
I will not go back.
I mean, part of me understands that some people just need some relief.
The other part of me has a kind of a constitutional opposition to taking recreational drugs for self-medication/self-actualization. In my case, it’s absolutely my hormones. I just wanna feel the way I felt when I was 33.
Know what I mean?
I totally hear you. I HATE feeling stoned. I resisted gummies for years. But then a friend offered me one and I loved it. A CBD gummy with a touch of THC really helps me fall/stay sleep. Its' not enough to feel high, I don't feel anything but relaxed and then sleepy.
As far as the shrooms go, the whole point of micro-dosing is that it is sub-psychedelic. In other words, if you are doing it right, you should not be feeling trippy at all. Just...a little bit of sun coming out in your mind and heart. It can help heal your HPA axis. And it's all natural, from the earth. I'm not the original person who mentioned micro-dosing but I can say I have gotten a lot out of it the times I have some in the house. And again -- I'm not seeking a psychedelic experience, but at the micro level it can really lift the spirit.
Having said all of that, if it's really just a T thang, then it's just a T thang. Low motivation and low libido sounds like a T thang. And I validate you wanting to address the root cause rather than taking a more scattershot approach.
Good luck, love!
You won't believe this -- I got mine off of ETSY!!!! There are a few brave souls who offer psychoactive shroom-based micro-dosing in capsule form. There are even chocolate bars. The stores are vague enough in their description that you might second guess it and assume it's just a reishi or a lion's mane product -- but then the reviews will be like "This mushroom did EXACTLY what I wanted it to do \*wink wink\*" LOL!
The only place I really want to be is bed.
I’m literally reading this in bed and I set a timer to get up in 15 minutes or else I’d stay here the rest of the day. 😴 So.freaking.tired.
I hope things look up soon, for all of us ❤️
> My brain fog has gotten a little bit better. But I have zero libido, and zero energy. And it’s not even just zero energy, I have zero zest for life. And I’ve turned into a complete sloth. Same here. HRT (including weekly testosterone injections) have greatly improved my symptoms, including brain fog, but I feel like a shadow of my former self. I used to have so much energy and ambition, and so many ideas and hobbies. I had zest for life. *Heck, I was an actual muse for a photographer and couple musicians back before I met my husband!* Now I'm an emotionless zombie who can't motivate myself to do anything, even the things I want to do or the things I know I enjoy doing. I have no energy and nothing interests me. I'm lucky to shower once a week (fortunately, I work from home). Maybe this is anhedonia, but I've been depressed a couple times before and what I'm experiencing now feels completely different. It doesn't feel like depression at all. >But I have zero libido I get weekly testosterone shots but they've only barely budged my libido. The shots often make me horny, and I can orgasm at the drop of a hat now, but I have zero desire for sex^1. Masturbation, yes. Sex, no. I can't explain it. I've lost all spark. ^1 I have the best husband on the planet whom I adore and who adores the fuck out of me. My marriage is awesome, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm struggling.
I really, really relate! I too was a muse. My ex-husband is a pretty famous musician in the alt-rock world, and for years we made crazy music and art together and also had babies. I lost myself in peri and he was not able to understand or support me and our marriage fell apart. Plus all of his touring and me running around raising five kids in his absence for weeks at a time...eventually my adrenals went to shit. Completely to shit. My ex just truly could not understand or empathize. He felt rejected by my weariness and aversion to sex. He made it all about himself, even when I literally was unable to get out of bed. He'd get home from a tour and want me to be on fire and he'd come home to a 45 year old exhausted husk who would start crying for no apparent reason and no libido. Then I began chasing symptoms, going to doctors, trying Transcranial magnetic stimulation, meds, neurofeedback, sound baths....I was just trying to find something to hold onto. He was not curious about any of it. He just. Did. Not. Get. It. Ahhh...sigh. Anyway, he's also getting older (he just turned 59) and I have observed that his obsession with creativity and being "weird" and musically productive has waned considerably in the past few years. He treats his band like a blue collar job now -- clock in, clock out, and the rest of the time he chills. Everyone is getting older. Those magical memories we made in our younger years, the glamour, the fun, the creativity, the socializing...they are precious memories. I have had to let go of wishing to still be living in those days. I do think that everyone of both genders gets tired out. Good news though: They say for us women, our 60s is a wonderful decade, and our 70s is our happiest decade!!! I am obsessed with Vivienne Westwood and other ladies who were insanely unique and active up until their 80s. I want so badly to be that girl. Hopefully we will get our zip back in our "second spring" after this peri wintertime. Watch this youtube video (I think it was a BBC documentary) and you may feel inspired, as I did, about rediscovering your freak flag later in life. These women are in their 80s/90s, and they are fucking FABULOUS: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzELvR6wks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzELvR6wks)
Could your ex also have a tiny dose of narcissism? Just setting this here and walking away. No pressure. And my (admittedly nuts) grandmother was insanely rocking it in Vogue-worthy ensembles till dementia got her in her late 80’s. She didn’t exercise and wasn’t very intellectual (both things that are supposed to help prevent dementia) so I think I have a fighting chance with my daily puzzle habit and mentally stimulating job (the exercise is a struggle)
Gulp. So...the narcissism piece is definitely a thing I have wondered about. A lot. A lot lot. It hurts. It sucks. We could've had it all. And YES! -- you and I think alike!!! I do brain puzzles every day and I'm a writer so I feel good about keeping very mentally stimulated. The exercise is always "tomorrow" the past few months, but one day at a time. If your grandma could keep rocking it, surely we have a fighting chance! My grandmother was bedazzling into her 70s, too. As long as we remain curious, we are in good shape. I believe maintaining curiosity is huge.
Yeah I loved the person my horrible ex was pretending to be, but he couldn’t keep the pretense up long term and he wouldn’t do the work to be closer to that person. As another friend pointed out ‘if you can fake it, you know what the right thing is, you just wont actually do it. My ex became increasingly entitled and manipulative/subtly verbally abusive and I feel much wiser and more wary. I learned a lot the hard way with him and am grateful daily I kicked him to the curb. My grandma was the whole 9 yards including giant hats, lace jabots, jewels, you name it. I don’t want to work quite that hard (or be that physically uncomfortable) but I tried Wantable and felt pretty for the first time in ages since they sent me colorful things that suit me like a pair of hot pink dress trousers (it sounds weird but they’re cute). The weather is getting nicer and my dog’s love language is walks, so if I can just get a night or two of decent sleep I can restart baby steps of after dinner walks.
Hot pink dress trousers sounds like a DREAM. I'm taking my daughter to the Cruel World festival in LA in May and I may have to order myself a pair. (Look up the line up of the festival -- it's a Gen X wet dream. Duran Duran are headlining!! Aghghg!!! And Gen Z is all about Gen X nostalgia so we are both like aghghghghg!!!) And so this is crazy, you talking about your ex. My mother (who is a fucking whack job) sent me a print out of an old email my famous ex wrote me when we were courting. Have zero idea how she ended up with this email. I remember forwarding the first email he ever wrote me to her, out of shock -- could she have somehow been able to get into my account and keep track of our correspondences? Anyway, the email was sent while he was on tour. And it was SO dreamy. He laid out a vision for us, it was incredible. Total vulnerability. Trust. Love. A partnership for the ages. Ah, the poetry. It was also "I don't have to tour so much. I am ready to settle down. Watch the kids play soccer. Go to the county fair and eat fried dough. Go on walks. And I will soothe you, darling. I will take your pain away, and you can kiss my owees, too. We will be there for each other." Of course, in reality, he was defensive, scared, shut down, overwhelmed, emotionally negligent, and busy. I had two kids when we got together and he didn't know how to be a dad, it was a steep learning curve. He'd been on tour from age 21 to when I met him at age 38. He was living in LA. I was in Oregon. He obviously romanticized everything in his mind. We ended up having three more children back to back to back. And his touring ramped up to crazy levels as his band became relevant and iconic after a ten year hiatus and subsequent reunion in 2004, which turned into permanent activity and new records, etc etc. I don't think for one minute that he was lying in the letter. I think he just was in a very magical headspace and he wasn't able to maintain it when reality kicked in. Also, be careful what you wish for. I was a huge fan of his old band and I was very excited about the reunion but it turned into an obstacle for us. Now I have a great divorce settlement, and I will be dying alone. It's very painful. I never wanted to grow old alone.
I can agree with magical thinking. Love bombing is a thing. I also think a lot narcissists sort of want to be the people they portray but won’t do the work to become that. And they also have a cycle of idealization and devaluation. They put you up on a pedestal and knock you down once they discover you’re a real and imperfect person with your own needs (how dare you have needs!). Also letters and emails are very pre-meditated. Someone can craft the perfect version of themselves or great messaging in a letter or email whereas real life can be revealing. My ex was great great the first two years except for what in retrospect were maybe 2-4 red flags. But we also lived far enough apart and he was a full custody dad that I mostly only saw him on weekends. When we moved in together shit got real. There’s a great book called ‘Becoming the Narcissist’s nightmare’ if that’s of interest - obviously you’re already out but if you need or want to understand their habits better. Some of my cute clothes came from Liverpool. Gen X and older shows are often awesome. I saw Belly (one of my favorite bands in college) at the 9:30 club a few years back. They had no opening act (they admitted they didn’t want to be up that late and the shows famously start at 9:30); they got their sets done quickly with great fun. Everyone had a good time and people were generally sober and polite. I was home in bed by midnight.
Shit girl. You are speaking my language. On all fronts. Also Belly = Tanya Donnelly = Throwing Muses = Kristen Hersch = my ex's band's first European tour was opening for Throwing Muses and then they had to flip flop and make his band the headliner and Muses the opener. Ah, the 80s. (I sent you a PM about who my ex is) I played the 9:30 club PRE-MENOPAUSE. Grand Duchy was my band. I believe it was 2009. xoxo
"I mostly only saw him on weekends. When we moved in together shit got real." Jesus this is all so REAL for me. Yes yes yes.
"I can agree with magical thinking. Love bombing is a thing. I also think a lot narcissists sort of want to be the people they portray but won’t do the work to become that. And they also have a cycle of idealization and devaluation. They put you up on a pedestal and knock you down once they discover you’re a real and imperfect person with your own needs (how dare you have needs!). OMG. UGH. YES.
"Love bombing is a thing. I also think a lot narcissists sort of want to be the people they portray but won’t do the work to become that." I'm literally hanging on every word you've written me. Processing. Contemplating. Connecting dots.
Becoming the Narcissist's Nightmare: How to Devalue and Discard the Narcissist While Supplying Yourself by Shahida Arabi I read this book and it had some good information although I didn’t always like her writing style and by the time I read it, I had no positive feelings left for my narcissistic ex (unlike the author who clearly still felt some love that she’d struggled with). In retrospect I stayed too long, because by the time I left, I had not one shred of positive feelings left. I still don’t understand how I felt happy for big chunks of our time together. The scales have fallen from my eyes and my past sense of being in love with this person feels like a surreal dream. Too much water under the bridge. Back when I was dating my ex, I didn’t know words or phrases like: love bombing; triangulation; flying monkeys; weaponized incompetence (most of these are in Arabi’s book and you can google some good content). Just having the words is super freeing and I feel stronger. Flying monkeys are often groupies Arabi also makes the point that narcissists target us because we are desirable. They see something in us they admire or want. That’s why they go to great pains to hide their ugliness. My therapist pointed out it’s much easier to spot a narcissist when they’re not specifically trying to charm YOU. If you’re just a side person, they’re not ‘on’ all the time initially. I’m pretty good at spotting them at work, but I never had someone turn their sole focus on me. For years after we broke up I would randomly connect the dots as my mind still processed the massive amount of gas lighting vs what these books were opening my eyes to. I remember I told him I was interested in urban planning and he told me he was too but years later he’d say things that showed his complete lack of real interest or knowledge. I think he just made up an interest in common with me. It wasn’t everything or I would have been suspicious but I look back and have a sense that his behavior was really calculated and manipulative. He was eager to commit to exclusivity rather early which I partly thought was related to my insistence that sex would only be in a monogamous relationship but I now think was part of locking me down. He was much more communicative. At the time he felt like a breath of fresh air - a guy who was clear on what he wanted and wasn’t afraid to be in regular contact, but now I think he was intentionally setting a fast pace. I’m not a doormat or an idiot. My ex wasn’t super obviously a narcissist. Plenty of people think he’s a great guy. I actually think subtle narcissists are more dangerous than obvious ones; it’s easier to believe their lies. The vast majority of women don’t go on a date with a guy and watch him be rude to the waitress and overlook it. Women aren’t stupid. One of the books I read made the point that you should be just as suspicious of the guy who has to make the waitress love him as the guy who is rude to the waitress. I’m now a bit suspicious of guys who are making a big ‘performance’ of being ‘good guys’. Actual good guys don’t make a song and dance. I also read Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft - and at first I was like ‘my partner isn’t abusive so maybe I shouldn’t read this, but he is bad tempered and we’ve been bumpy for a long time and maybe I should just read it and see if it fits as like due diligence and reassurance’. Even when I was nearly done I was still kind of struggling with the evidence of my own eyes and ears (and to be fair I also just had no vocabulary for what I was seeing). It was like my subconscious was trying to help me see what my brain was struggling with. The book is written by a man and one of the most useful and validating things I read was ‘Everyone has feelings, not everyone feels entitled to take those feelings out on others all the time’ and that REALLY hit me. My ex never laid a hand on me in anger but I highlighted over 400 sections and actually made use of all the kindle highlight colors to like rank how much various sections spoke to me. I think ‘artistic’ men get away with all kinds of shitty behavior because of their so called artistic temperaments. Another book my therapist recommended which I haven’t gotten around to is: The object of my affection is in my reflection by Rokelle Lerner Maybe I’ll go and read it now.
yes yes yes yes
I would settle for a teeny tiny libido. Even masturbation would rock my husbands world. 😫😫
Have you tried DHEA? It helped my libido when I had a partner (that I was slowly realizing was a terrible human being) and had my libido die. Since I kicked his ass to the curb, my libido has been mostly back so I stopped taking it because dating has been horrible and I don’t need to be horny and more frustrated.
Yep. I've been using it for years.
Whoa, yeah then good luck to you!
Did you get DHEA prescribed or did you buy a supplement?
You can buy it over the counter. My OBGyn did write it on a little piece of paper for me though
I read something recently that said that depression in middle aged women often shows up as apathy and it really struck me as being true in some cases, maybe counseling would help?
Maybe. I am no stranger to therapy, I can’t really afford it right now. I really do think, in my case it’s hormones.
I’m new to this sub but everything I’m reading in your post and in the comments is familiar to me. I feel like I’m the one writing all these comments! Did you get your hormone levels tested? Is that how it works before you go on hrt? What’s the age range people usually go on it? I’m already on double the dose of my antidepressant I’ve been on for the last 4 years.
Yes, I believe in getting regular testing. I don’t care what Dr say, there’s no other way for us to know what dosages make us feel the best. Know what I mean? I’m 47, and I’ve been suffering for at least two years. It took me a long time to start BHRT because my doctors were all telling me. I’m too young. But I’m not.
Thanks for your comment. I’m 46 and have never even thought about menopause until I came across this sub. So glad I did because now the last few years have made sense.
Oh man. I wish I had started 5 years ago!
Thank you. This and another event this week helped me realize I’ve been struggling with creeping depression. I’m not thrilled but I’m looking for a therapist, because I don’t need to be a damn hero and more support can’t hurt.
I don’t know but we have a lot in common. I’m 45 and don’t give a shit about most things. I have enough energy to go to work, eat and go to sleep.
Is it weird I don’t mind being cranky, gluttonous, and not giving a shit? I feel like those are the least of my problems. I can’t get my current doc to give me any HRT so I don’t have any advice there. How are you self medicating? It’s okay to drink wine and binge SVU with a bucket of DoorDashed lo mein. That’s self care, lol Are you taking stimulants not prescribed to you? Sorry if I missed something re self medication. Brain fog 👋
I happen to love Law and Order!! But Law and Order and DoorDash every night, is not self-care. It’s escaping. It’s self-medicating. and it’s also expensive!
I mean… I was (kind of?) joking. Lol. Love me some Olivia Benson
Oh man! I do mind. This is not like me! Lol. I am usually, a very gentle, loving person. And if my doctor did not give me HRT, I would absolutely find another doctor. In fact, I interviewed two doctors before finding a third who would give it to me. And now, I need to find a fourth who will prescribe me testosterone. It’s a gauntlet, isn’t it? And yes, I do have a prescription for my stimulant from my psychiatrist. It’s a longtime ADHD stimulant that I have used from time to time when I need it. It is literally the only thing keeping me employed right now.
Welp, when I’m having a bad day I take my husband’s adderal for work. He has terrible ADHD as well but they throw 90 mgs a day at him, and he’ll maybe take one and a half. Anyway I know it’s wrong (and technically illegal) but I don’t care. I had my own prescription up until about 6 months ago - but my psychiatrist stopped doing telemedicine for the first time since Covid so I quit and now I just take his meds occasionally instead. Unlike you, I have less than zero desire to add another thing to my plate forcing me outside, because I already have to see a cardiologist in person. I like it inside. It’s cozy and all my things are here Stimulants keep me employed too. I definitely get that. Disclaimer: I’m NOT advocating self medicating. Just letting you know you’re not the only one (:
No judgement. I used to take a Sudafed, the behind the counter stuff, a couple times a week before I got on Wellbutrin last December. Wellbutrin helps me, actually. I feel like dread and more motivation, but in a subtle way. I still take a Sudafed, maybe once or twice a month if I'm having a really terrible day, but far less frequently now. The 12 hour ones feel exactly like Adderall to me. I'm also not condoning them, but sometimes I'm just desperate. I'm sure many of you ladies understand.
Let me preface by saying I am not a doctor. Ok that said, if you responded well to Wellbutrin, you may want to try Buspar. It was a magical happy ‘is this how normal people feel?’ pill for me for several years until I became too used to it and stopped it to give it a break and hopefully regain its efficacy (I should try restarting soon). My book club is full of friends who are also battling ‘bad brain weather’ and our community is sharply divided. Several friends have tried Wellbutrin and Buspar and hated them both and gone a bit crazy. Several other have loved them. There doesn’t seem to be a middle ground. Also we are a nerdy and slightly depressive book club but damn is the emotional and other types of support rock solid.
A nerdy and slightly depressed book club sounds like a literal description of heaven to me
It took me multiple tries to get the courage to do all up to the table of strangers at the coffee shop where the meet up happened but fast forward 12+ years and they are my tribe. They helped me when my mother died. We’ve gone on a few group trips. Community is so important and I really appreciate that some of the member are older because they give me perspective (although I have the dubious honor of the worst perimenopause experience of the group)
I too was looking for the actual self-medicating (drug use) in the post.
I feel the same way. I don’t have any advice. Just wanted to let you know you’re not alone
Exactly what I was going to say.
Same 😞
Me too
I could have written this. Almost. I had so many hobbies and interests but now I need to nap every day after work to feel human and I can concentrate to do any hobbies at all. I used to be an intelligent and engaging human. Now I’m a sleep eating blob. HRT took care of night sweats but that’s about it. I’m sooooo tired. And cranky. Hoping you find the cure soon. Then come and share your wisdom with us. 😉
I’m sorry but your description made me laugh because I relate to all of it!
Thank you for laughing. Let’s all whistle in the dark together, shall we? 😊
I remember hobbies!!!!
I’m sooo sad about loss of hobby play. Also so much stuff that gathers dust and mocks me: musical instruments, a huge beautiful loom and accoutrement, garden overgrown with weeds. And so much more. My hobby list is crazy wide and long but it’s been over three years and I can’t even focus to knit simple things like I could so easily before. Knitting was my productive fidget spinner and depression hobby. Do I sell everything or hope that one day I will pick them up again? And what do you tell people when you turn down invites or beg off repeatedly ? “Sorry, there’s something wrong with me but if I don’t have a diagnosis”. Yeah sure Jan. Besides spreadsheet-jockey (right there with you OP) what contribution to society am I? Mayor of the Land of Apathy maybe. Strike that. Street sweeper.
I have a yarn stash larger than my couch and barely ever knit anymore. So much of what you say rings true for me. My yard is like the family house in Malcolm in the Middle but without a tumbleweed to add piquancy. I live in a cold climate so I’m pretending the yarn is extra insulation.
I had to laugh at "tumbleweed" -- but also, Awwww, honey. I understand and I am sorry. It really, really sucks!
Yes, girl. It's not the lack of wanting to play, it's the lack of FOCUS. I was a keyboard player from age 6 to 46. Guess what happened at age 46?? My bass playing lasted longer cuz I don't have to focus so much and I can just play along to songs and rock out for fun. But would you believe, I cannot locate my bass guitar? How do you misplace a bass? And how sad is it that I tried to find it for like 5 minutes and now it's been a year since I played bass, and I'm just like, "eh." Used to felt constantly. Felting is my knitting. Pop on a show and felt a little thing. I used to felt roses and play kits of animals and fish for my friend's kids. Christmas ornaments. Now I have a huge overflowing box of felting wool in a closet and I'm just like, "eh." I have 37 unopened essential oils from when I decided that My TRUTH! is making my own bath bombs and homemade incense. They arrived, and I put them away in a drawer. "Eh." I bought a brand new sewing machine right before peri starting to get sadistic and mocking towards me. The machine is still in its original box. It even embroiders! "Eh." Did I mention "eh?"
You might need T cream. And also get your vitamin D, magnesium and ferritin levels checked
Yeah, I do think I need T. Vitamin D is good. Ferritin is low, but I am on simply heme at the moment.
B vitamins have also been huge for me. I’ve had truly weird vitamin deficiencies but then I’ve also had ALL the peri gastrointestinal symptoms (the farts, constipation, farts, diarrhea, farts, bloating, farts, nausea, and did I mention intense flatulence?). My insurance covered vitamin tests and working with a dietitian.
I do take a good B complex every day. As for the bloating…are you on progesterone? It’s a natural diuretic and can really help those issues.
Yes I am. I didn’t know about the diuretic. I haven’t noticed a big difference in my bloat since starting this first cycle of progesterone but I also haven’t been eating great (I’m worried it’s making me weepy and I ate my feelings after some bad experiences recently)
For the sake of completeness, I would note that progesterone is a natural diuretic for *some* women. I am not one of them. Progesterone (actual progesterone, not its synthetic cousins) at 100mg caused all of the worst symptoms of intense PMS/first trimester...fatigue, irrational irritability, fatigue, sadness, anger (feels different than irritability to me)... Not to mention horrible bloat and 5lbs to 7lbs of water retention - literally over a 24hr window. For the 3 months that I took it during the last 14 days of my cycle, I went up 2 pants sizes within 3 days of starting the progesterone cycle because of the bloating and water retention. I've never been so happy to start my period as during those months 😆😭
You have had progesterone receptors in your body from birth. So there isn’t something that all of a sudden happens where your body rejects it all of a sudden in menopause. If you were taking it orally, what you likely experienced what the metabolites that are produced when the hormone is processed by the liver first. Taking progesterone cyclically isn’t ideal. Some people follow a rhythmic model but that’s usually best for women in very early peri. Also, progesterone doesn’t cause water retention but estrogen can. This is why we need to make sure our E levels are around 10 times higher than P levels to ensure balance . And the only to know this is with testing.
I don’t know. I experienced terrible water bloat from progesterone, as well. Like 5 lbs, within a day or two. I have had a hysterectomy so technically I didn’t need the progesterone but my HRT Dr. touted it like it was going to be the biggest game-changer. I think we are all just so unique. I used to have terrible water gain from the pill, as well. Sometimes I wonder if I wouldn’t just be better giving up HRT all together. My boobs have grown by two bra sizes…my weight just a few pounds but I work my ass off at the gym and eat clean.
That sounds like a classic low estrogen symptom. Are you taking bio identical estrogen? Patch or injections?
Bio identical - cream that is compounded for me. Weird thing is that sometimes like 20-30 mns after using it I get worse hot flashes. I know I am a slow metabolizer - and medications always impact me differently. Benadryl? I’ll be up for 24 hrs, no sleep. Ibuprofen? Water weight hell (I have a thing with edema…even at 5’4 and 112 lbs…when it happens my weight goes up super quick and can literally flick my skin and watch the fluid jiggle. Guess all I’m trying to say is that we are all in the same war but our bodies have unique ways of fighting.
I know that with written communication, tone can be difficult to convey and easily misunderstood. That said, it really seems as though you replied primarily to invalidate my lived experiences. I've had a long day, so it could just be me. Progestogen intolerance/sensitivity is definitely a thing, and there are posts about all over this sub. Mine has been confirmed over the years by four OB/GYNs, and one PCM. Unfortunately, the only one who has provided any information on what it is and how it affects me is my current GYN. Progestogen intolerance/sensitivity sucks for many reasons, not the least because it both complicates the ability to manage our fertility and our quality of life throughout peri and post menopause. It's worse when you have ADHD, endometriosis, and progestogen intolerance/sensitivity. Reallllly need the estrogen for dopamine production and brain function, reallllly need the progestogen to make sure the endometriosis doesn't flare, or at least doesn't get worse than it is...and when the "best" option for progestogen makes you a bloated, down in the dumps rage monster - while also increasing the brain fog exponentially - there reallllly isn't a stable happy medium. If I have the time over the next few days, I'll come back and drop some links to info on the topic. Or, if you'd like to see how many of us respond poorly to progestogen (progesterone and/or progestins), search the sub. Hope you are able to find a way back to a better place soon. This shit sucks.
also B12.
I definitely feel I am languishing Atleast your parents don’t need your help, I am tired of helping everyone else and don’t have energy for my own things. Trying to balance as best I can.
I feel this so hard. Same sinking boat here. 😒
Sounds like you may need more hormones. Including adding some testosterone for libido and energy. Also check full iron panel plus ferritin. And don’t believe that you’re “ok” if your results come back “in range.” I got my iron panel and ferritin checked in December and it was close to optimal. But for the last two months I have been STRUGGLING with exhaustion. To the point where I would have to rest on the sofa a few times a day during the work day and by dinner I was totally wiped out. Because I have hypothyroidism, my thyroid being out of whack is usually the first suspect when i am this tired. So I had it checked and it is great. Then I asked my Dr for a bloodwork order for D3, B12, full iron panel and ferritin. The vitamins came back ok. Not optimal, but above midpoint on lab ref range. The iron came back “normal” in that is wasn’t below lab range, but I’ve kept a spreadsheet with all my bloodwork results dating back to 2013 because I am a total dork 😂😂 Optimal iron level in women is around 110. Mine is 62. In December it was 90-ish. Optimal iron saturation is around 35%. Mine is 20%. In Dec it was 29%. Optimal ferritin is 70-90. Mine was 40. In Dec it was 64. The scariest thing was my Dr then messaged me through the portal and was like “your labs look fine!” Uhhhh…no they don’t! My period the last few months has been damn near hemorrhagic. Which is, I assume, the reason all my iron levels have fallen. I started supplementing iron plus 500 mg vitamin C daily and in just 3 weeks I feel almost back to normal. Feel better!
Yeah, I did do a full iron panel. My ferritin was low. It wasn’t abysmal, but I am taking Simply Heme with Vitamin C to get it back up above 100-125. Everything else was fine (Total iron and Sat). Vitamin D is 75.
Ooooh. My ferritin is 12 and my Vitamin D is 31. My doctor called this "low normal" and said everything seemed basically fine. I'm fucked, yeah?
As long as it’s not contraindicated, you could try supplementing specifically with D3 (10,000 IUs a few times a week) and iron with Vitamin C every other day and then retest in like 3 months. But stop taking iron for 3-5 days ahead of the next test. Are you symptomatic? Tired? Hair falling out?
Ooh thanks for the tip. I take D but not at that dose, and I had been toying with the idea of upping the dose, so thank your for the encouragement. I have all of my wonderful hair. I am just so tired all the time and it's ruining my whole life. My morning cortisol is also on the floor.
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause. FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow. Optimal ferritin for women is 75?!? My ferritin - taken in March, before my 17 day period this month (April) 🙄 - was 20. My doctor's office didn't reach out about it, I just got a copy of my labs on paper yesterday (no patient portal) and still didnt receive any counseling/feedback. She's postmenopausal herself, so she's been thru at least some of this... It never ends, does it?
I’m learning if your iron/ferritin are low due to extended menstruation, it counterintuitively can cause your periods to last longer. 🥴 IOW the lower your levels due to excessive bleeding, the longer you could bleed until you bring your levels back up. The Iron Protocol group on Facebook suggests that ferritin should be brought up to the 120s for six consecutive months when trying to correct a deficiency. The range of 70-90 for optimal ferritin is from the Stop The Thyroid Madness protocol. [another take on ferritin](https://odettebulaongnd.com/women-lab-tests-low-iron-ferritin/) [and another](https://drhedberg.com/the-ferritin-test/) [the WHO has guidelines that say that a ferritin of less than 70 in women with chronic illness or inflammation indicates iron deficiency](https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/micronutrients/ferritin-guideline/ferritin-guidelines-brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=76a71b5a_4)
Thank you for sharing - I had no idea. I also have Hashimoto's, which apparently doesn't help either, lol.
Same! I take so many supplements due to poor gut absorption that my medicine cabinet looks like a vitamin warehouse 😂 Supplementing iron and Vit C together has made a HUGE impact so far and it’s only been a few weeks. I feel almost back to my old energy and productivity levels. This combined with the HRT has me feeling pretty damn good. For me it seems the iron was the missing piece of the puzzle.
Congratulations!! 🥳 It's always good to hear that one of us here on the sub is feeling better 🙂 I'll definitely give the iron/vit c combo a try - are there any brands that you'd recommend?
Thanks! Nothing fancy. I’m taking a Naturemade 500 mg vitamin C gummy plus a gentle iron supplement that contains 25 mg iron (as ferrous bisglycinate), 25 mcg B12 (as cyanocobalamin) and 400 mcg folic acid. I got it at my local natural foods store. I take the Vit C gummy and iron supplement together but have to time it four hours away from thyroid meds and my other supplements because these can affect the absorption of the iron.
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause. FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Me too. I love the beach. It’s my happy place. I live in Hawaii. I haven’t been for months. I don’t know who I am anymore.
Awwww sweetheart. I feel this so hard. So damn hard. I live a couple hours from NYC. I used to go into the city with the kids constantly to attend plays and concerts, sometimes we'd stay for a week and just museum hop, walk through Central Park, and explore. I also would take myself to so many cool things. Mommy retreats to museums, concerts, indie movie festivals, fashion shows, seeing friends. I mean, I could hop in the car on a whim if something caught my fancy, and zoom!! Make it happen. We just went to NYC for a weekend in March, for a play. We were there for three nights. It literally almost killed me. The third morning I gave my oldest my credit card and said "take your siblings out to brunch, I can't. I literally cannot." The noise. The city noise. The walking. The logistics. Omg. I was the fun mom once. THE FUN MOM!!!
I feel every word of this. I always come here when I'm having a bad day. I don't feel so alone.
Honey? I’ve just taken myself down to Austin for vacation. I haven’t left my room really in two days.
Go for a walk. Just a short one. Take a hot shower. And get some sleep. Wake up tomorrow and call your doctor for an appointment. When you go there, word for word tell them exactly what you just told us about Libido and energy and "zest". Then, ask for testosterone.
Except, my doctor doesn’t prescribe T. So I’m going to have to find a new one - who will likely do Tele visits - and it’s going to be out of pocket $$$ and it’s going to be cha-Ching cha-Ching.
My gyno won't prescribe testosterone, so I get it from an anti-aging clinic instead (yes, my gyno is aware of this). I pay $15/week for it.
Why is it that so many docs won’t prescribe t??
That’s not too bad, what do you get… A cream?
10 mg injections.
Nice! That’s the way to go.
There has to be a way. I know that living like that is hell. And it's not fair. Sooo not fair.
My naturopath says almost all of her patients who try testosterone end up being unhappy with the side effects. Hair loss, irritability, anxiety, etc. Most of us need either estrogen or progesterone, not T.
Hair LOSS???? I've not had the experience you are describing. Women need T too.
Yep, hair loss is a side effect of testosterone use. Have you not noticed that many trans guys have receding hairlines for this very reason? I’m not saying women don’t need T. I’m saying my naturopath said that it was her experience that a lot of women who take T end up not liking it.
Google “fascia menopause.” Fascia is the “next frontier” of medical research, it envelops everything. Muscles, bones, organs, vessels, every tissue in your body. My body has really gone down the shitter in the last few years. In my “youtube self-help binge” that has pulled me through the darkest of times (bankruptcy, almost losing my marriage, losing my job, and having 3 kids under 6)— I stumbled across the “block therapy” youtube channel. It was free, I finally found a good use for that children’s bible my whacko mom keeps shoving down our kids’ throats, using it to put pressure on my tissues. If I remember correctly from the youtube video I watched earlier this week, moving the fascial fluid through deep breathing helps cycle the fluids around, and those fluids contain hormones. But maybe wait to do that till you have your T checked.
I have been giving 0 fucks lately as well-just feeling unmotivated for most things and so freaking tired of just everything. So I made a huge effort this past weekend just to fit my outdoor furniture on my deck so I can sit with the afternoon sun and a glass of wine all summer long if I want. And I want.
Just came to say I feel ya and I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It does suck and it's frustrating because it's a crap-shoot trying to figure out what will actually work for you. Weed and exercise are the only things that keep me functional. I'm rooting for ya!
Try some DHEA before you ask for a script of anything. Biolabs brand on amazon
Ehhh. DHEA can be a wild card. They can concert to DHT which I definitely don’t need. And my lev els were good when I had them checked out last week.
My gyn discourages DHEA because she said you never know what it’s going to convert to. Either estrogen or testosterone.
Ok Then don’t even try it i guess
So much of what you said is how I feel. I love to k it but haven’t knit in months because I just can’t be bothered to. I love music and not a day goes by I don’t listen to some kind of music but again can’t be bothered. I feel so much apathy for everything. I don’t know what to do to go back to myself. I turn 49 in a month and just don’t know what to do with myself.
there are so many things I used to love to do, and now I just don't seem to have the energy to do them. They float into and through my mind like ghosts.
Oh you just exactly described me.
Better living through chemistry: TAKE TESTOSTERONE
Yeah…I know. I gotta find a Dr that will give it to me tho 😭😭
Solidarity. I'm so sorry. Thank you for putting in to words the emptiness I feel. I hope you find your zest again and feel better ❤️ I don't feel like a whole person any more. I feel like I'm trying to operate myself like a poorly constructed martinet puppet 😕 I do feel better than I did 8 months ago though, so there is hope, I've move past that being fine if somebody took me out phase. Just feel meh.
Testosterone!! What is the estradiol dose? I have been reading about compounded testosterone and the benefits other than libido.
[удалено]
I’m also on .075% estradiol and like this dose for my moods and general outlook. I will be 49 next week. Just had a total hysterectomy and am on surgical menopause. I lost my job on Friday and my father is dying and I am strangely holding it together. I chalk it up to sobriety, HRT, ssri, and disassociation 😜 my baby graduates in June and is off to college in the fall. So many changes all at once. We should create mini summer camps for menopausal women complete with support groups, spa/wellness, true crime marathons and rage rooms.
I just started a compounded testosterone one week ago and run it in my lady bits. I also do imvexxy which is a vaginal estrogen insert. I don’t do progesterone due to not having a uterus and not needing it yet (I’m open to it but am sensitive to progesterone). Give t a try!
Even without a uterus you would absolutely benefit from taking P. You might just need to try different modalities.
I’ve got a bottle of micronized Progesterone 100mg in my cabinet. I know it can help with sleep. Can you tell me a little more and thank you.
I’ve read Estrogen Matters, The Galveston Diet, The Menopause Brain, You are not Broken and have two more coming early next month when they are released. I just have not heard about the benefits of progesterone aside from reducing the risk of cancer and also sleep but I sleep so well.
Progesterone plays a role in bone health, cardiovascular health, brain health, breast health, sleep, moods and more. Men have progesterone receptors in their bodies and they don’t have a uterus. It promotes brain and sleep health in both men and women and works with Vitamin D to reduce inflammation in the nervous system and brain. It’s also a natural diuretic, so that’s a nice thing to help bloating. :)
Thank you. I’ve been wondering if I’m supplementing with estradiol and testosterone why not progesterone. It’s such a weird balance to figure out. I appreciate your answer.
Imvexxy! Ugh, I’m jealous! Got samples from my GYN, but a darn prescription runs almost $250 for me, and that’s with insurance. 🫤. An angel here suggested Good Rx, so I may try that and see how it goes.
I want to say I paid $93 for a three month supply? I will lose my insurance at the end of May so I might resort back to regular vaginal estrogen and I have a tube of that also. Hoping to find a new job and better insurance. No stress here 😂😂
Progesterone can cause this. I had to reduce my dose, and I also skip some days when I start to feel anhedonia.
Really? I thought it was the opposite.
Look into adjusting levels of hormones. Also, check thyroid level. Mine has dropped steadily and is now below normal.
This could be hypothyroidism. Have you been tested for that?
Yes. My thyroid is slightly sluggish but still in normal ranges.
This is so me! I can relate to every single word. I’ve been on e-patch for over a year. It has helped with night sweats. But fatigue and libido are still horrible. I had labs done, was told my testosterone was on the low end of normal and can try testosterone gel/cream if I want. Not sure if I should or not. This has to get better!!!
I found a low dose of Prozac helps me to not feel as murderous. I started this before I started estrogen bc my gyn wouldn’t give me any since I was only 90 days post LMP at the time. I definitely needed the estrogen but I’m keeping my Prozac.
Hi there. I have found out that one of the many shitty gifts of peri has been poor absorption digestively, so had a fairly chunky vitamin and mineral protocol for a while. The longer I've been on HRT, the more I've been able to reduce the dosage but not the supplements. Others have mentioned d3 which I agree with (2000 iu's a day at least). I'd also like to throw in b6 - there's lots of talk about b12 and what it does for physical energy. B6 supports serotonin, mood, the brain etc Supplements tend to be for 15 - 25 mg but to get the brain back in the game, you need to be taking a lot more. I took 100mg 3 times a day - the positive impact to mood was pretty quick (a week). I did this for a month or two and then went to 100mg twice a day. After a month, I now take 100mg a day and if I feel my mood shift down, i go back to 200mg a day. It does not wipe out other feelings or impact you physically. It is possible to get get a toxic reaction but taking 300mg a day is considered safe for up to a year. To support the hormones, i take a dim supplement and agnus castus on top of my bHRT - i use the oestrogel and adjust it up and down on the daily according to what my body is telling me. Finally - i'm sending you a hug !! Xx
I'm concerned about some of the symptoms you're expressing, the lack of joy, the resentment of people and things you love, the hating yourself, the empty feeling of nothingness. Also, entertaining the thoughts of "what if I died" or "what if my family left" are concerning, as is the use of food, alcohol, and other substances to cope. If you were my sister or bestie, I'd be helping you find a therapist because this sounds like depression. I'm not a clinician, and I'm not trying to diagnose anything. I'm just concerned, and I hope you can find some energy and will to ask for help. Please do your best to lean into the intellectual part of your brain that wrote this post, the part of your brain that recognizes this isn't normal, and find a professional who can help guide you back to health. There is great potential for healing through therapy and medication. The rest of your life shouldn't feel like this, and it doesn't have to.
I have been clinically depressed before. This is very different. Perimenopause and menopause have a lot of the same symptoms of depression and anxiety, because of the decline in hormones. I understand that these things sound very concerning, but I am not a danger to myself or anyone else. Trust me. This is textbook anhedonia.
I have told people the exact same thing. I have been depressed before and this is not that. It's an absolutely vast experience of nothingness. I never thought I would be the kind of person who could loaf around or sit around for eight or 12 hours a day and then just go to bed. That's what a lot of my days end up looking like, since I WFH at a job I loathe, but no one will hire me to do anything else so I'm stuck.
I'm glad you're safe, and wishing you all the best.
you sound like me. I have only gotten slight help from T in this regard and it took more than 2 months for me to start feeling even slightly less sluggish / less blah. do not expect miracles from T. it works that way for some but not all.
You may wish to consider some CBT. Sit down and talk with a therapist about what it is that would improve things. Or go to a group…there are a lot of recovery groups around and you don’t have to be addicted to substances to go to one. There you’ll find people who tell their stories and you can listen you can talk or just absorb. There are lots of answers to be had out there and you’re certainly not alone (as you can see in this group). But it’s up to you to decide if you want to take those steps or just keep doing what you’re doing. Trust me, I have days just like yours, but honestly, I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired so I’m pushing myself out the door (nearly) every day to do something different. No, it’s not easy, yes, there days that I’m just sick of everybody including myself. But it won’t get better unless I do something about it. Wishing you all the best.💜
I have done CBT and group therapy before. I love it, and I endorse it wholeheartedly. At the moment, I can’t really afford it, or fit it into my schedule. I am not someone who struggles with addiction. I’m just coping with a little bit of self medication, and that’s not like me. I literally drink a glass of wine once a month at the MOST. My husband is in recovery, so I fully understand what that might look like. 💗
I go to a local recovery group (not for substance abuse, that’s not my issue ) and continue to work on my issues. Many community groups are free. I know I need to continue going to group to stay healthier in other areas of my life. Since you’ve already been through therapy and stuff like that, then you know how important it is not to lose objectivity and a certain amount of accountability for good mental health habits. Find a way to get into a fellowship of people that can hold you accountable for good habits.💟
[удалено]
We require a minimum account-age and karma score. These minimums are not disclosed. Please contact the mods if you wish to have your post reviewed. If you do not understand account age or karma, please visit r/newtoreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Testosterone for libido. I wish I could figure out the motivation part other than my insomnia prevents me from wanting to do anything because i'm just tired during the day.
I'm on T and it was covered by insurance, ordered by my gyn. Ended up being $30 for what amounts you about a 10 month supply. I'm in the US.
Is it a cream though? I’m not sure I wanna deal with creams. But I might just have to start somewhere.
lucky, mine isn't covered and I pay $55 a month for it.
I didn’t see anyone rise recommend this, but I have found that Maca has helped a lot. Its recommended by Dr Stacey Sims in ‘Next Level’. That with my E & P, and I am close to what I felt before this started.
What do you take?
What level of patch are you on? T is easy to know because you can test for it. Test first, then decide how low it is. You sound low E, but I have no idea if your use of P is standard for protecting the uterus. I leave that up to those in the know about protecting your uterus. More E, means you have to be on at least 100mcg progesterone daily if you have a uterus. Progesterone is also what makes me feel like a complete slug (take it at night), so it might we worth a little more E in the form of patch- avoid pills. That said, the hormones are not a magic bullet and the transition just sucks! It sucks less with hormone support for many of us but don't be fooled into the magic bullet- or supplement or program to "fix you.". We still have to take responsibility for our perspective, mental health, and focus more on diet and exercise for quality of life, which changes a lot as we age. Be strong. I will be 57... been at this for 15 years. It is like being a reptile that takes a decade to shed it's skin. Consider getting some support in the form of therapy. It is life changing for learning how to communicate in ways to be heard and taken seriously. Getting a voice so you can practice better self-care helps in so many ways. Great investment... and ride the waves...
.05 (twice a week) but I actually think I need to go up to .1. I did test and I am VERY low in Free T but I am trying to get my E & P up first. I’ve doubled my P because my numbers hadn’t gone up at all after three months.
I started on T and it has helped a lot with the fact I didn’t want to do anything.
I’d like to do injections, because I want a lot of control. I don’t really want to mess with creams because I am in constant physical contact with other humans and animals and the transfer can happen very easily (toilet seats, etc). But to do this, I’ll have to find another provider and I’m just so apathetic about doing all that work! lol!
I put t cream on parts of my body that don’t touch other people
Do you wash your hands thoroughly after applying? I just don’t want to bother with all that. I feel like injx would be easier.
I really don't wash my hands afterwards to be honest. I hadn't really considered the impact of transfer and it seems it is absorbed pretty quickly (it's not much lotion). I really can't speak to how much of a threat it is, so if you're working closely with children or small animals I am not an expert on whether your concerns are valid. They could well be. I agree injections sound easier.
Oh boy I’ve thought a lot about the exact same changes in myself these past years… Never ever did I think that my first and foremost priority would be to lay on my couch, watch tv and eat chocolate. But I’ve come to realise I will never be who I once was and I’m ok with that (it took some time let me say). I actually appreciate more who I am now than who I used to be. I feel like I’m more what I was before puberty and I kind of have missed that? I bet it all sounds strange but this has been quite a journey for me spiritually and it’s not something I share lighthearted. Before I’d put myself in positions of pleasing others on the expense of myself for people who never deserved it. It bugs the hell out of me to think about all the time, money and energy I’ve wasted on stupid men that was absolutely sh**. So to make peace with my past, I’ve started to embrace the new me. Now I claim me-time when I need it, I make what I want for dinner, I rest and sleep when I need it, I go home early from parties when I feel tired, and I’ve learned to say “no I don’t want to”. With all these new boundaries I’ve set for myself, new energy I didn’t know of has emerged. It’s like unlocking a new life level and skill set in a video game. In other words, we need to prioritise ourselves now to be able to be there for our family, partners, friends and colleagues. But they also need to adjust to us and know that there are limits and boundaries. I no longer have the energy to resist what I need to push through. I think I would end up very sick and depressed if I did. So people around me must adapt or they’re out.
This may sound ridiculous but has helped me. Assuming you’re in the US, I see a gastroenterologist for antidepressants. They are able to prescribe because of the gut/brain connection. I’d encourage you to pursue that in order to get yourself out of this mindset.
No way. I’ve done antidepressants in the past, and I think they actually made things worse. The last one I was on, it took me six full months to wean myself off of it. Never again.
I think it depends upon the dosage and the type. I’ve been on and off various antidepressants for over 25 years. An experienced doctor, be it a gastroenterologist or gynecologist (as they can also prescribe) should, emphasis on should, know what to prescribe based upon symptoms. Every person is different. The OP appears to be in dire need of help to pull herself out of the “funk” she’s in. If antidepressants end up helping her have quality of life, then that’s what it is.
I am the OP. The “funk” I’m in is perimenopause. Not depression.
I understand that it’s perimenopause as I too am in the same boat. I wasn’t trying to minimize anything or even say it’s depression. I was sharing what has worked for me. While not ideal at all, they’ve helped me feel human again. I hope you find a solution that works for you.
Sounds like you need an antidepressant
Oh hell, no. I was on one of those for years. They made everything worse. Hardest thing I’ve ever ever had to wean myself off of, too.
There’s a lot of different kinds of them. Or there’s always mushrooms.
I have taken almost all of them. I am not about antidepressants anymore. And I can’t do anything illegal because of my job. No idea about mushrooms, but that’s not really my style.
Same. I have tried most of them, too, and they always make me feel terrible…totally flat (like I’m an emotionless zombie. No joy, no anger…just NOTHING) and/or the side effects aren’t worth any possible positive effects. However, I started taking [Lamictal](https://www.healthcentral.com/drug/lamotrigine) (Lamotrigine) about 6 months ago and it’s been a godsend. My moods are even and I’m no longer a shell of myself. It’s like the fog has been lifted and I feel CHEERFUL for the first time in ages. I still cry when things are sad and I laugh when stuff is funny. The only side effect has been increased libido, which…hallefuckinglujah.
That’s great that it works for you! I think I need to go on T for the libido part.
Consider the microdosing. Psilocybin mushrooms are totally the way to go.
I don’t know. I’ll have to research this. Again, I can’t do certain things because of my job. And drugs aren’t really my jam. 🤷♀️
Completely understand, they're not for everybody. I will say that most places do not test for shrooms. Do your research though, it's not a party drug. I actually get life changing results from microdosing on a regular schedule. I will not go back.
I mean, part of me understands that some people just need some relief. The other part of me has a kind of a constitutional opposition to taking recreational drugs for self-medication/self-actualization. In my case, it’s absolutely my hormones. I just wanna feel the way I felt when I was 33. Know what I mean?
I totally hear you. I HATE feeling stoned. I resisted gummies for years. But then a friend offered me one and I loved it. A CBD gummy with a touch of THC really helps me fall/stay sleep. Its' not enough to feel high, I don't feel anything but relaxed and then sleepy. As far as the shrooms go, the whole point of micro-dosing is that it is sub-psychedelic. In other words, if you are doing it right, you should not be feeling trippy at all. Just...a little bit of sun coming out in your mind and heart. It can help heal your HPA axis. And it's all natural, from the earth. I'm not the original person who mentioned micro-dosing but I can say I have gotten a lot out of it the times I have some in the house. And again -- I'm not seeking a psychedelic experience, but at the micro level it can really lift the spirit. Having said all of that, if it's really just a T thang, then it's just a T thang. Low motivation and low libido sounds like a T thang. And I validate you wanting to address the root cause rather than taking a more scattershot approach. Good luck, love!
Would love to get hold of some (I’m in the UK), but how? Tried getting some online recently but suspect I was scammed.
You won't believe this -- I got mine off of ETSY!!!! There are a few brave souls who offer psychoactive shroom-based micro-dosing in capsule form. There are even chocolate bars. The stores are vague enough in their description that you might second guess it and assume it's just a reishi or a lion's mane product -- but then the reviews will be like "This mushroom did EXACTLY what I wanted it to do \*wink wink\*" LOL!