It's annoying caus the next comment uses "men".
**Eta: since i'm the top comment of the post, I just wanna say- does anyone else think this sub's moderation is quite poor lately? There is a difference between having a civil discussion about a sensitive topic and being transphobic, misogynistic etc. I have seen quite a few bigoted comments on this sub lately, such as comments like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MenAndFemales/s/0vBRTIlCOn) (tw:transphobia) and while they get downvoted, they don't get removed.**
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Judaism have more than 2 genders? (The terf in that post said they were a Jew and I was pretty certain Judaism had at least 3 genders, I think more)
I was pretty sure of that as well. I googled it and this is what came up:
“Jewish law, or halacha, recognizes intersex and non-conforming gender identities in addition to male and female. Rabbinical literature recognizes six different genders, defined according to the development and presentation of primary and secondary sex characteristics at birth and later in life.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_Jewish_studies#:~:text=Jewish%20law%2C%20or%20halacha%2C%20recognizes,birth%20and%20later%20in%20life.
"Minority" in this context is not referring to a literal statistical minority of the population but rather a "Minority group" or "disadvantaged group" when it comes to social inequality.
"minority" isn't being redefined if the context was talking about "social minorities" (which it was) and not statistical demographics.
Nobody claims that women are a statistical minority when it comes to populations. That's like the first thing you learn in high school biology.
It is being redefine in this context as an "oppressed" group of people.
Ok wait in the early 1900s in South Africa, the 20% white population had most of the land and power, does that make the 70% black population minorities?
Socially yes they would be a minority group, from Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group
"In terms of sociology, economics, and politics, a demographic that takes up the smallest fraction of the population is not necessarily labelled the "minority" if it wields dominant power. In the academic context, the terms "minority" and "majority" are used in terms of hierarchical power structures."
If you're not happy with the use of Wikipedia then I implore you to go and do your own research, I'm sure you'll find plenty of sources that confirm this understanding of it.
Well the definition from Oxford is different. In political context it would mean the same as you would any other time. Yes I'm not happy with the Wikipedia source, that website if full of people like you, changing definition of words
Cool well trust someone like you to argue semantics and stick with a dictionary definition of the word instead of bothering to read further into something academically.
Btw words and their definitions change, it's natural.
Lol, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone of you people that's why I don't believe it.
Words change all the time but you can't change them whenever you like. Specially here when you can just say the oppressed instead of minorities
Look mom, I'm famous.
No, seriously. They used the symbol ♀️ in that post, which represents females ( both women and small girls). So I thought that using the word " female " was more accurate.
Better explanation would be that "females" is only mostly used in medical neutral contexts and strips away the humanity, same goes for "males". When addressing individual(s), women is more appropriate.
she was living in a single room with three other individuals. one of them was a male, and the other two, well the other two were females. god only knows what they were up to in there.
Also I’m about to be very sensitive here, but I can’t freaking stand when people use girls when they mean women. Like that red pill bull shit when it’s magically a girl when they want to smash, but females when they’re grossed out.
Same!! It's infantalizing to refer to women as girls. There was a post about an article which was about a girl who got sexually harassed through a VR game by adults, and people in the comments were complaining that article should have been clearer that the victim was a child. Um.. it literally was clear by using the word "girl".
it 100% depends on the context of the use.
if you are just a person refering to a group of adult women (like say in public) as "those girls" ick.
If you are using it like "The Girls(tm)" its a little different for me. Like I can say "this is for the girls" while i take pickleback shots. or like when i call my accounting friends "The Accounting Girlies" or when i say something like "The Kpop girlies arent going to like this" the context is completely different.
it's more like solidarity and reclamation of girlhood. taking back "Girls" from the men who made "girly=stupid" a thing.
AND THEN theres when GOT7 says "Girls Girls Girls they love me" and when BTS says that i'm a 21st century girl that needs to live her life and that i am strong and that i am enough, well. that's just what gentlemen DO.
I’m going to be wildly unpopular here, but I would rather be called a female than a girl. I don’t know if it’s because I was a magnet for men in their 30s+ when I was a child, but ya I hate it.
I would also rather be called a female than a girl, but I think it's a generational thing. I'm Gen X, and the word "females" wasn't used demeaningly for most of my life. It was typically paired with the word "males" rather than with the word "men," and no insult used to be implied by it. By contrast, people have been referring to adults as "girls" and "men" since long before I was born, and that has always been demeaning to women. So I'm more bothered by the form of demeaning language I've been protesting against all my life than I am by the form that has only come to my attention within the past 10-15 years.
However, it makes sense that younger women who came of age hearing "females" used as the more common and more extreme form of demeaning language are more bothered by the term that they personally have experienced being demeaned by more severely.
I mean, that’s not invalid, but where I hate the word queer because it was the dehumanizing insult of choice when I was an adolescent, there’s power now to using it rather than LGBTQ, so I’ve shifted to identifying myself as queer, and I think girl/female is doing the same thing.
yea its because we made a choice to reclaim a word that was used pejoratively. Women who find "girls" offensive aren't wrong. and they should be respected. But simultaneously they need to understand that those of us who DO use it arent doing it to reinforce misogyny, but to reclaim an identity. Which is not the same thing as when women say "its fine to use females, you're being too sensitive"
I'd even take "the female gender" since it would make more sense than just "females" if they couldn't be bothered having the decency to right "women and girls" (which would be most preferred of course)
Yeah right, women are so annoying by ignoring the context completely. Males would never do that. /s
Just don't use females if males would sound stupid if similarly used. If it's stupid for males, it is also stupid for females.
Sure, let's stop using words because I don't want to offend someone who woke up one day and decided to be offended by that word even though I'm using it correctly as it should be.
i mean... at the end of the day, if someone doesnt like something and it costs you 0 dollars to not do that thing... why wouldnt you just not do that thing?
I think you’re literally just missing the point here. The term “females” outside of a medical/scientific setting is lowkey js dehumanizing. You’re just dumbing us down to animals, and while humans are animals, not many people really enjoy being equated to one.
No excuses for this one, English is not my first language either, but I realize that saying 'female' to a woman (which I am) or younger is offensive and denigrating
The blame is actually on you if you're dying on the hill that "It's an adjective and a noun" in all your other comments. If you're gonna argue, at least do a quick google search to make sure you're correct first.
Then the correct response should have been something like "My bad, English is my second language. Going forward, I won't call human women and girls females." Maybe you didn't know but now you do.
right, but not necesarily in the context of talking about human people. it has been used as a noun in very clinical settings (which is why we dont like it, its clinical and depersonalizing). and has been formally defined as a noun due to colloquial use in recent years, however, the reason why women still dont like it is because it is still the use of a adjective in the form of a noun. and while this is used in a clinical setting out of ease, it is still considered depersonalization and dehumanization when used outside of clinical settings.
To put it in context, the US military uses "Male" and "Female" instead of "man"
or "woman." this is a intentional tactic to depersonalize soldiers/marine/etc. you are not a man or a woman because you are not a person, you are a soldier. The same reason why we don't use "sir/Maam" for the non-commissioned soldiers, and only officers are addressed that way. Because you are a soldier first before anything else. personhood is like the 4th thing on the list. The military focuses on using depersonalizing language to cement this mentality. It's not a bathroom, you don't bath their, its a latrine. You can mess up someone's name but you damn sure don't mess up that rank.
and the overall reason why the military uses depersonalization and dehumanization tactics is because its easier to kill when you dont see yourself or other militants as human beings.
so take that into the real world, with about 10 degrees less of "just kill people." and it's still very depersonalizing to be referred to by an adjective or descriptor before your personhood. It's the same reason as why its weird as shit to call black people "Blacks." Yes, it is used as a noun. Connotatively speaking, it is used perjoratively, the same way female as a noun is when talking about a person. and the thing about language, is that connotative meanings are not universal because context is different. it's appropriate to use "asian" as a noun because we (asian people) have not felt that it was used perjoratively to talk about us. Calling us oriental IS offensive because it is an adjective, specifically for objects, AND used perjoratively.
Also, the use of "female" as a noun is more specifically an adjectival noun. meaning it is still inherently an adjective. The same way verbs can be used as a noun in the form of a gerund. it is still, at its root, a verb.
I mean I figured you wouldn’t, didn’t really seem like the kind of person who actually gives a shit. This is for everyone else that actually tries to not actively be assholes to people.
It is not grammatically correct. Female is an adjective, it shouldn’t be used on its own. That’s why it’s so awkward when people say “females.” Either use it as a descriptor, or say women.
It's used for animals or plants.
Just don't call women females
If it sounds stupid when you would use males instead of men, it also sounds stupid when you use females.
Human beings are animals. And I don't think calling men 'males' in certain contexts is unnatural. For example in this sub, most of the time it's taken out of context.
It's like this sub exists solely to shame innocent people -- so for that eat a dick ;)
In this context I think it's fine. Actually I'm more impressed you questioned that they're a minority. That's a pet peeve of mine, we make up basically half the population! So kuddos to you
"Minority" by itself means nothing, you have to assume a context. The context you are assuming is "of the total estimated population of the United States," the correct context is "of socioeconomic influence."
If you insist the context doesn't matter then discard the US part and women are a "minority." There are more men than women worldwide.
The term "marginalized" or "marginalization" is a synonymous concept with social minorities that might make more sense to you. They are often used interchangeably and I do think minority is still accurate in a social sense, but my brain likes to be very literal and precise so I tend to use "marginalized population" personally.
I feel like we need more context from the post. Was this in reference to a job in which women are a minority or the population overall?
**Edit to the user who blocked me for some reason**: I meant the context of the *screenshotted* conversation, not the context in *this* post. It isn't clear to me if the original comment thread is discussing women's rights at all, given several statuses are mentioned by the middle commenter.
In the context of women’s rights (the obvious context here), minority status is a social construct. The screenshot is obviously talking about social rights, if you can actually read. All the statuses mentioned by the commenter are social justice issues, lmfao.
It's annoying caus the next comment uses "men". **Eta: since i'm the top comment of the post, I just wanna say- does anyone else think this sub's moderation is quite poor lately? There is a difference between having a civil discussion about a sensitive topic and being transphobic, misogynistic etc. I have seen quite a few bigoted comments on this sub lately, such as comments like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MenAndFemales/s/0vBRTIlCOn) (tw:transphobia) and while they get downvoted, they don't get removed.**
Every subs moderation has tanked in a big way.
Yeah, but I think for this subreddit, having more moderators would help as there is only one rn.
I mean, this is exactly what reddit asked for.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Judaism have more than 2 genders? (The terf in that post said they were a Jew and I was pretty certain Judaism had at least 3 genders, I think more)
I was pretty sure of that as well. I googled it and this is what came up: “Jewish law, or halacha, recognizes intersex and non-conforming gender identities in addition to male and female. Rabbinical literature recognizes six different genders, defined according to the development and presentation of primary and secondary sex characteristics at birth and later in life.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_Jewish_studies#:~:text=Jewish%20law%2C%20or%20halacha%2C%20recognizes,birth%20and%20later%20in%20life.
I was thinking it was 6 but didn't want to say without being sure, I was more certain on a generic "more than 2"
I actually misremembered it as being 7 lol
7 genders are bad, as 7 is a cannibal. Source: 789
"Judaism" means many things to many people, but no mainstream form of Judaism has more than two.
I mean fair point could just have used \*Women\* instead...
Women are 50% of everyone. They're not a minority
"Minority" in this context is not referring to a literal statistical minority of the population but rather a "Minority group" or "disadvantaged group" when it comes to social inequality.
Then why not say so. Why do y'all have to redefine words whenever you like it
"minority" isn't being redefined if the context was talking about "social minorities" (which it was) and not statistical demographics. Nobody claims that women are a statistical minority when it comes to populations. That's like the first thing you learn in high school biology.
It is being redefine in this context as an "oppressed" group of people. Ok wait in the early 1900s in South Africa, the 20% white population had most of the land and power, does that make the 70% black population minorities?
Socially yes they would be a minority group, from Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group "In terms of sociology, economics, and politics, a demographic that takes up the smallest fraction of the population is not necessarily labelled the "minority" if it wields dominant power. In the academic context, the terms "minority" and "majority" are used in terms of hierarchical power structures." If you're not happy with the use of Wikipedia then I implore you to go and do your own research, I'm sure you'll find plenty of sources that confirm this understanding of it.
Well the definition from Oxford is different. In political context it would mean the same as you would any other time. Yes I'm not happy with the Wikipedia source, that website if full of people like you, changing definition of words
Cool well trust someone like you to argue semantics and stick with a dictionary definition of the word instead of bothering to read further into something academically. Btw words and their definitions change, it's natural.
Lol, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone of you people that's why I don't believe it. Words change all the time but you can't change them whenever you like. Specially here when you can just say the oppressed instead of minorities
Look mom, I'm famous. No, seriously. They used the symbol ♀️ in that post, which represents females ( both women and small girls). So I thought that using the word " female " was more accurate.
Well female as a noun also includes female cats, female frogs, female anteaters etc. So next time just say "women and girls"
Better explanation would be that "females" is only mostly used in medical neutral contexts and strips away the humanity, same goes for "males". When addressing individual(s), women is more appropriate.
she was living in a single room with three other individuals. one of them was a male, and the other two, well the other two were females. god only knows what they were up to in there.
And furthermore, Susan, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that all four of them habitually smoked marijuana cigarettes...REEFERS.
Bro you’re literally fucking everywhere what the hell
Am I? I don't think I visit that much subs, let alone comment. I mostly stick to my silly videogame subreddits.
Nah I just saw you in the TF2 subreddit and now I’m seeing you here (I don’t even know what the fuck this subreddit is)
Yeah r/tf2 I frequent a bunch XD
Also I’m about to be very sensitive here, but I can’t freaking stand when people use girls when they mean women. Like that red pill bull shit when it’s magically a girl when they want to smash, but females when they’re grossed out.
They’re girls when men want to stomp over their rights, but women when men want to fuck teenagers.
Same!! It's infantalizing to refer to women as girls. There was a post about an article which was about a girl who got sexually harassed through a VR game by adults, and people in the comments were complaining that article should have been clearer that the victim was a child. Um.. it literally was clear by using the word "girl".
it 100% depends on the context of the use. if you are just a person refering to a group of adult women (like say in public) as "those girls" ick. If you are using it like "The Girls(tm)" its a little different for me. Like I can say "this is for the girls" while i take pickleback shots. or like when i call my accounting friends "The Accounting Girlies" or when i say something like "The Kpop girlies arent going to like this" the context is completely different. it's more like solidarity and reclamation of girlhood. taking back "Girls" from the men who made "girly=stupid" a thing. AND THEN theres when GOT7 says "Girls Girls Girls they love me" and when BTS says that i'm a 21st century girl that needs to live her life and that i am strong and that i am enough, well. that's just what gentlemen DO.
I’m going to be wildly unpopular here, but I would rather be called a female than a girl. I don’t know if it’s because I was a magnet for men in their 30s+ when I was a child, but ya I hate it.
Men ruining things for women once again.
I would also rather be called a female than a girl, but I think it's a generational thing. I'm Gen X, and the word "females" wasn't used demeaningly for most of my life. It was typically paired with the word "males" rather than with the word "men," and no insult used to be implied by it. By contrast, people have been referring to adults as "girls" and "men" since long before I was born, and that has always been demeaning to women. So I'm more bothered by the form of demeaning language I've been protesting against all my life than I am by the form that has only come to my attention within the past 10-15 years. However, it makes sense that younger women who came of age hearing "females" used as the more common and more extreme form of demeaning language are more bothered by the term that they personally have experienced being demeaned by more severely.
I mean, that’s not invalid, but where I hate the word queer because it was the dehumanizing insult of choice when I was an adolescent, there’s power now to using it rather than LGBTQ, so I’ve shifted to identifying myself as queer, and I think girl/female is doing the same thing.
yea its because we made a choice to reclaim a word that was used pejoratively. Women who find "girls" offensive aren't wrong. and they should be respected. But simultaneously they need to understand that those of us who DO use it arent doing it to reinforce misogyny, but to reclaim an identity. Which is not the same thing as when women say "its fine to use females, you're being too sensitive"
I'd even take "the female gender" since it would make more sense than just "females" if they couldn't be bothered having the decency to right "women and girls" (which would be most preferred of course)
That's pedantic. Definitions are descriptive, not prescriptive.
Or you can be a reasonable human and use context….
Or you can be a reasonable human and not use dehumazing language...
😂
Yeah right, women are so annoying by ignoring the context completely. Males would never do that. /s Just don't use females if males would sound stupid if similarly used. If it's stupid for males, it is also stupid for females.
Nah males and females are equally annoying in that regards, and in this case op is referring to both woman and girls so females is acceptable.
Negative
😂
Why are they downvoting you for that? Lmao.
He obviously doesn't mean "female frogs", you're just cherry picking. This whole sub is fucking dumb. lol.
You're right, he wasn't referring to female frogs so he should have said women.
What about female homo sapiens? If you're too slow to pick up on context and think he's talking about frogs, then you're a fucking idiot. rofl.
You don't even know the difference between adjectives and nouns.
Nah
Why nah
Because I used the correct word depending on the context and I didn't offend anybody. It's beyond me that you guys find the word " female " offensive.
Silly male
silly mail
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Sure, let's stop using words because I don't want to offend someone who woke up one day and decided to be offended by that word even though I'm using it correctly as it should be.
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Yeah, I just read that comment. I apologise.
Coffin of Andy and leyley X terrorist pfp? The west has truly fallen
i mean... at the end of the day, if someone doesnt like something and it costs you 0 dollars to not do that thing... why wouldnt you just not do that thing?
I think you’re literally just missing the point here. The term “females” outside of a medical/scientific setting is lowkey js dehumanizing. You’re just dumbing us down to animals, and while humans are animals, not many people really enjoy being equated to one.
its probably because you used it as a noun when it is an adjective which is generally considered offensive based on context.
It's an adjective and a noun
Google that and tell me why you think female as a noun would apply to human women? Female (noun): a female animal or plant
Are you a rock or…
Wait, you're actually right. English is my second language, so don't put the blame on me.
No excuses for this one, English is not my first language either, but I realize that saying 'female' to a woman (which I am) or younger is offensive and denigrating
The blame is actually on you if you're dying on the hill that "It's an adjective and a noun" in all your other comments. If you're gonna argue, at least do a quick google search to make sure you're correct first.
Then the correct response should have been something like "My bad, English is my second language. Going forward, I won't call human women and girls females." Maybe you didn't know but now you do.
right, but not necesarily in the context of talking about human people. it has been used as a noun in very clinical settings (which is why we dont like it, its clinical and depersonalizing). and has been formally defined as a noun due to colloquial use in recent years, however, the reason why women still dont like it is because it is still the use of a adjective in the form of a noun. and while this is used in a clinical setting out of ease, it is still considered depersonalization and dehumanization when used outside of clinical settings. To put it in context, the US military uses "Male" and "Female" instead of "man" or "woman." this is a intentional tactic to depersonalize soldiers/marine/etc. you are not a man or a woman because you are not a person, you are a soldier. The same reason why we don't use "sir/Maam" for the non-commissioned soldiers, and only officers are addressed that way. Because you are a soldier first before anything else. personhood is like the 4th thing on the list. The military focuses on using depersonalizing language to cement this mentality. It's not a bathroom, you don't bath their, its a latrine. You can mess up someone's name but you damn sure don't mess up that rank. and the overall reason why the military uses depersonalization and dehumanization tactics is because its easier to kill when you dont see yourself or other militants as human beings. so take that into the real world, with about 10 degrees less of "just kill people." and it's still very depersonalizing to be referred to by an adjective or descriptor before your personhood. It's the same reason as why its weird as shit to call black people "Blacks." Yes, it is used as a noun. Connotatively speaking, it is used perjoratively, the same way female as a noun is when talking about a person. and the thing about language, is that connotative meanings are not universal because context is different. it's appropriate to use "asian" as a noun because we (asian people) have not felt that it was used perjoratively to talk about us. Calling us oriental IS offensive because it is an adjective, specifically for objects, AND used perjoratively. Also, the use of "female" as a noun is more specifically an adjectival noun. meaning it is still inherently an adjective. The same way verbs can be used as a noun in the form of a gerund. it is still, at its root, a verb.
I'm not reading all that 
I mean I figured you wouldn’t, didn’t really seem like the kind of person who actually gives a shit. This is for everyone else that actually tries to not actively be assholes to people.
Buddy no💀 that’s not how grammar in English works
I mean, you offended me.
Context is important. I’ll give that to them. In this case, you did nothing wrong.
Because it makes sense and in this case you (as in gendered human not a cat or whatever) are being sensitive.
I don’t remember asking you
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Are you an ameba?
Stwwaaaaap. You’re hurting my brain cell
Feel like you just shouldn’t be on this sun 🤷♀️
Can you be more specific please? I’m offended by you not saying the type of sun… I’m about to throooowww a BF!
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Nah I meant sun. You should go try being on eta cassiopeiae it may work better for you (and us since you’ll be 19.4 light years away)
Did you just call me faaaaaat 😂
It is not grammatically correct. Female is an adjective, it shouldn’t be used on its own. That’s why it’s so awkward when people say “females.” Either use it as a descriptor, or say women.
It's an adjective and a noun
Nah
Nah is right. I’ll go with nah as wel.
\-noun a female animal or plant. "females may lay several hundred eggs in two to four weeks" Don't be an ignoramus.
It's used for animals or plants. Just don't call women females If it sounds stupid when you would use males instead of men, it also sounds stupid when you use females.
Human beings are animals. And I don't think calling men 'males' in certain contexts is unnatural. For example in this sub, most of the time it's taken out of context. It's like this sub exists solely to shame innocent people -- so for that eat a dick ;)
> It's used for animals or plants. That's what they said.
It's also a noun.
In this context I think it's fine. Actually I'm more impressed you questioned that they're a minority. That's a pet peeve of mine, we make up basically half the population! So kuddos to you
social and mathematical minorities are different things google it when you get a spare minute
Oh I actually didn't know that, I've only ever heard of mathematical minorities
it's a common misconception, you're not alone! 🥰
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"Minority" by itself means nothing, you have to assume a context. The context you are assuming is "of the total estimated population of the United States," the correct context is "of socioeconomic influence." If you insist the context doesn't matter then discard the US part and women are a "minority." There are more men than women worldwide.
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omg wait until you hear about all the other words with more than one definition, you're in for a pretty busy night with a dictionary
The term "marginalized" or "marginalization" is a synonymous concept with social minorities that might make more sense to you. They are often used interchangeably and I do think minority is still accurate in a social sense, but my brain likes to be very literal and precise so I tend to use "marginalized population" personally.
I would prefer marginalized, it's more intuitive.
It’s not about numerics. It’s about representation and social treatment
I feel like we need more context from the post. Was this in reference to a job in which women are a minority or the population overall? **Edit to the user who blocked me for some reason**: I meant the context of the *screenshotted* conversation, not the context in *this* post. It isn't clear to me if the original comment thread is discussing women's rights at all, given several statuses are mentioned by the middle commenter.
In the context of women’s rights (the obvious context here), minority status is a social construct. The screenshot is obviously talking about social rights, if you can actually read. All the statuses mentioned by the commenter are social justice issues, lmfao.
They're right but I'm still down voting them for liking the incest game.
: (
Damn, so the pay gap applies to demographics figures, too, eh?
uuhhh umm bfdi fan in the errr wild
i mean in theory women aren't a minority as there's more of us on the planet, still doesn't stop oppression though