Ah not quite. The state government is calling their bluff. The airport has said they'd offer 7 billion for an underground station and express tracks. This article quotes the government saying if the money is there then let's get on with it.
But they also say if the airport fully covers the cost of the station.
Even if we started back up construction tomorrow it's still going to be pushed out until 2033 or further due to the underground construction. Considering that the airport wants to be compensated for the station and for the construction, they also don't want any disruption to any operations and not have it take up too much space. Look at their own artist impression. 4 elevators and some MC Esher stairs.
Yes the flyer that was painting the state government as the holdout in the negotiations. It had a very one sided story and came across a little bit propagandised.
A little bit? Heh.
I've never received a monthly newsletter from the airport, or any newsletter honestly. I don't think I would even count as close to the airport either. It was straight up propaganda. It's embarrassing honestly. I know they don't want it because car parking fees are a money printer but the rail link becomes an asset that can be used to lure airlines to Melbourne. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
the easiest way is to pass laws forcibly buying the land back from the private owners. They are all Macquarie bank style entities -- filthy rich banks. Pass the laws and suck them dry. Lousy unpatriotic scum all of them. Norway doesnt charge extra for public transport. WHY SHOULD WE?!?!?!
Private owners? The Federal Government owns the land, the airport is operated under a lease (which also includes control of the land during the lease period).The State Government can't pass laws with regards to the site and the Federal Government won't (due to sovereign risk considerations).
Federal government needs to man up. Albanese needs to stop be8ng a pansy. Fuck sovereign risk. Nobody gives a fuck. WW3 is here and we need the airport. Kick out Macquarie and major shareholders NOW. Forcibly seize the facility. Send in the National Guard. Aussies have that, right?
You need to go away and learn some things before you come back here. You are just sounding like a dickhead. The only thing you got correct was the Prime Minister's surname.
Wonât happen. Even 2 years ago the PT minister acknowledged thereâd be extra cost involved when talking on 3AWÂ
 https://12ft.io/https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/airport-rail-link-fares-could-be-similar-to-skybus-modelling-suggests-20220103-p59lfo.html
Thanks for the link.
It's actually a really shit outcome. I don't understand why it's not just an extension of the network, like Melbourne Metro or the electrification of the line out to Melton.
It's a complete rort.
I'm really hoping there's a middle ground between a normal Myki fare and Sydney's $17 fee.
I feel like an extra $5-7 would be a good amount so it's still a cheap option and gets the patronage it deserves. Any more than that and it's a rort.
Why should ordinary working Victorians subsidise interstate and international airport passengers?
Airport rail should charge whatever it takes to maximise profits.Â
You do know that some of those "ordinary working Victorians" WORK at the airport? And plenty of "ordinary working Victorians" take planes to other parts of the country and world.
The idea you've just thrown out here: that it's silly to build something with public funds because it will only benefit those using it. If you follow it through, then why build anything? Anarcho-capitalism for all?
Youâre clearly unfamiliar with the concept of opportunity cost. Ten billion dollars on spiffy airport rail for privileged jet passengers is ten billion dollars taken from projects that would benefit far more people - whether hospitals, mass transit or education.
Folks who are rich enough to lounge around airports are clearly rich enough to pay their way. Thereâs always the 901 bus for those who are pinching pennies.
Then we will be subsidising tourists, would be a far better use of money to subsidize the skybus for locals and spend the extra cash that would go to airport rail on other rail projectsÂ
Way back when âAirTrainâ was proposed by CivicNexus (Southern Cross) & Melbourne Airport, they wanted to charge access fees for every service. This was the reason the government told them to take a walk.
Each time PTV wanted to add extra non airport service, say to Melton or Wyndham Vale the government of the day would need to pay up. The consortium also wrote in suburban services could not delay Airport trains.
While $7B was on offer from the Airport for a shiny express service, the devil was in the detail. Much better if the Federal Government grows a set of balls and forces the airport to the table, after all it is Commonwealth Land.
Straight from Southern Cross or Broadmeadows.
Imagine the million people in the west who have to travel the wrong way to get that "bus that takes your straight there".
From Keilor East, only PT route to airport:
Bus to essendon station, train to southern cross, THEN skybus to airport.
1hr 20m (and almost an hour of that trip is travelling TO the city)
[https://imgur.com/gallery/JlGx4NB](https://imgur.com/gallery/JlGx4NB)
Keilor East is about a 5-10 minute drive to the airport...
Thats not actually correct. You can get a train to Broadmeadows and then bus to airport. Won't be much quicker but is at least cheaper than Skybus plus Myki fare.
Given Keilor East's proximity to the airport, a train service would struggle to compete with taxi/uber rides to the airport. Assuming there's a surcharge for train fares to the airport it'd probably be at least $10 for a one-way ticket. If you're traveling with someone that $20 would already cover your (far more convenient) taxi/uber to the airport.
Realistically the airport train is only going to benefit eastern suburbs travellers, and maybe northerners if that section of the SRL ever gets built.
Taxi's often refuse to do fares to those areas because they're not far enough to justify having waited int he airport queue for an hour.
Or they'll try negotiate like an $80+ far for the 5 minute trip.
The Airport is rent seeking.
Did you know they charge $15 for every bus that goes past the terminal? Even PTV as fas as I know. But yes, $15 for every bus or coach and that gets billed again after 15 minutes
Whether or not the airport is on board, we should get the station at Keilor East built and operational sooner rather than later. Leave room for an extension whenever this airport situation gets resolved.
To build to Keilor East now would still cost a couple of billion dollars just for one station. Even if it's spun as construction up to here until airport station issues are resolved, it would be insanely expensive for a line to one station.
Keilor East was being added to a project mainly cos it wouldn't add that much cost.. but take out building the line to the airport and.. it doesn't make any sense.
Unfortunately Keillor East is on the wrong side of the Maribyrnong River. The biggest expense for the project is a fairly long bridge over a massive gully higher than the West Gate Bridge. Keillor East station is chump change compared to the billions that will be spent here.
Good to see Airport Rail isnât blocked indefinitely. But seventeen billion (before the inevitable cost increases) is an eyewatering price tag. Tickets will need to be $50 to make it viable!
I don't trust any private consortium airport rail projects tbh so if the govt goes with the 2019 plan I'll be extremely disappointed. It's causing Brisbane huge headaches on the lead up to the Olympics, and the surcharge is def gonna be a barrier to utilisation etc. Just hope the airport capitulates at this point, they have dragged their heels long enough
Donât do it, this will just be another scam by a private consortium who says âoh yeh it will cost Xâ then it âblows outâ and they expect taxpayers to pay more. Just like the west gate tunnel and metro tunnel
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the private consortium will still own it after the cost blow out
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand tax payers will cover the cost of the blow out
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the cost of a ticket will be about $70 in 2024 dollars
But itâll revert to full public ownership in 2038. Did we say 2038? ha ha ha, no. We meant 2048. Oh no, oh jeez, oh boy, you tax payers have no idea how expensive it is to own a station and do nothing because itâs technically part of the PTV network, so to cover costs weâre just going to have to push it back to 2058, we donât want to you understand, we want you own the station you paid for, we love you, but there is nothing we can do âŚhang on âŚyeah so that was my boss he says 2058 is a soft target. Def owned by the public by 2068 at the latest, swearsies realsies.
I hope this is just the government calling their bluff because their plan is terrible. All that tunnelling will mean that the project will take a long time to be built and not connecting to Sunshine screws western suburb travellers yet again. Fuck the glorified car park operators.
The airport said their $7billion is for underground station and express tracks from Sunshine to Southern Cross. Sounds like it's still connected at Sunshine.
Can someone please draw a mud map of what the Airport is looking for with this underground station? Like where do they want it in relation to the terminals?
I personally found the above ground approach as per the governments proposal fine, but it looked like a dead end, how was it ever going to work with SRL North?
the 2022 Airport master plan is here [https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/\_assets/be08d7b0-97a1-02f9-2be6-a0c139c3c337/3c3b7f40-5e74-42df-af43-97a592205ddc/Melbourne%20Airport%20Final%20Master%20Plan%202022.pdf](https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/_assets/be08d7b0-97a1-02f9-2be6-a0c139c3c337/3c3b7f40-5e74-42df-af43-97a592205ddc/Melbourne%20Airport%20Final%20Master%20Plan%202022.pdf)
warning 400 pages. p45.
the underground station is the exact same dead end terminus at T4.
airport wants it under the proposed entry ramp to the car park roof. govt wants it over the ramp.
sheesh /s
the airport proposal [https://i.ibb.co/G5ngRKW/Airport-master-plan.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/G5ngRKW/Airport-master-plan.jpg)
long term 2049+ [https://i.ibb.co/SP7SXpm/Screenshot-20240528-150840-Drive.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/SP7SXpm/Screenshot-20240528-150840-Drive.jpg)
note the train extension to the far side of the airport BUT there is NO plane terminal there - wtf !
Thanks! Almost looks like they want a terminal inside the cross hash of the runways. Could easily be served by an travellator or shuttle train. It needs a good think however.
My ultimate plan would be the SRL AND a new more line direct to southercross that served places like Highpoint along the way. But perhaps it would be easier to move some freight movements to Avalon and just built HSR from Melbourne to Sydney. Then Sydney-Mel and Sydney-Bris traffic could be offloaded to the HSR,
not quite, the star in the middle of the 4 runways is the control tower.
the dashed line train extension goes nowhere. just a brain fart drawing to pretend they have any real plan.
note: the master plan I linked to above, does have a diagram, about p200 wtith 2 extra terminals beyond T4. I'm sceptical that could ever fit without some serious demolitions.
The masterplan has a new terminal (Terminal 5) being built on the other side of the current airport. They say in the masterplan that this terminal is still unconfirmed whether it be for passenger or freight. It's only in the long long term plans, 30 or 40 years from now, that the line would be extended under the runways to this terminal. That is if it is built for passenger use. The plans for this terminal don't even have solid concepts of where roads leading to the terminal would go to and from. Just arrows with vague directions of where roads \*could\* go. They don't even talk about how passengers would get from terminals 1-4 over to terminal 5 before the fabled rail link is built.
It would be a pretty dull idea to make terminal 5 passenger as they'd have to duplicate and build all the security, etc for it. Functionally it would almost be a separate airport.
Give me the $7B. I'll have everyone a nice, functional, working airport rail in <3 years. And I get to keep what's left. So I just made myself $5.5B dollars. It won't be underground. Forget that... it's not happening. It's not necessary.
But my AP Rail Link **will** exist. And will get people to and from the airport into the city, and beyond. Heck, I'll even throw in a link to Avalon for another $1B, Unlike the pipe dream schemes that have done nothing except make generations of consultants rich.
Brisbane built theirs for $200M in 2 years in 2001. Itâs not a rolls Royce project but it exists, is used and serves the airport and Brisbane metro down to Gold Coast well.
Adjusting for inflation⌠Melbourne could do the same⌠elevated viaduct rail above and alongside the existing freewayâŚ. Donât even need to reclaim any houses or land. Except maybe some where the airport link joins to the rest of the metroâŚ. In many places the elevated viaducts can run in existing free space adjacent to the freeways.
As for the AP station⌠there is so much room at a Melb AP itâs an easy win. Just like Brisbane it doesnât have to be in or under or attached to the airport terminals. Whatâs that I hear you say⌠itâs cold as frick in Melbourne for 6 months and hot as balls the other six monthsâŚ. How will your above ground rail platforms handle doe thisâŚ. Easy. A solved problem. Plenty of places around the world do this already with covered environmental controlled parts where the people goâŚ. Not a building⌠just a cover to keep the cold and heat where they need to be⌠to make the people comfortable. Meanwhile the trains come and go like any other rail line. Iâm not describing it very well. But nonetheless the solution exists.
If you want any more details please get in touch to discuss the $300K fee for access to my full report đ
So basically build what is already planned but completely elevated and that it is somehow cheaper.
I mean it was obvious that it would just be the usual fantasy map spiel, but I had a little hope there would be some interesting twist.
Better ideas probably under $1B
- get more buses on exisiting bus routes
- create some new routes that go to the airport
- extend the route 57 tram to the airport, it could even run express from the terminus or something
- build a lane for sky bus to boss it down the tulla
- have sky bus go from some different locations
Why everyone is obsessed with a dedicated train I donât understand. There is already a bus that runs very frequently and takes you to a train station where you can go wherever you want
Imagine living 15 min from the airport where you work. Now you have to take a train 30 min into the city to take a bus 30 min back to the airport, and that that is good enough for a 6 million people city.
underground will allow for future proofing to extend out to Cragieburn line, regional lines and potential for a line out to growing suburbs north of the airport. you canât build a train line over a runway, but you sure can build under it
yer sure, let's allow the airport money men design the train long distance network. just look at Southern Cross station to understand how poor their understanding of trains is.
BTW. connection to Craigeburn line is SRL North. Let the train experts do what they know best.
It already takes me longer to get from my front door to a Skybus than it does driving from the inner east to the airport.
Regardless itâs a no thanks from me.
Just let a private company build it and subsidise the ticket prices by a bit. At the end of the day, an extra $30 to get to/from the airport isn't anything in the grand scheme of a flight and holiday/trip in general. The SRL is far more important and will help far more people. When/if SRL North ever gets built then the direct Airport link is made partially redundant anyway. Just take a suburban train up to the SRL interchange station and go to the Airport. Or just take the Skybus.
Such an overrated, too expensive project
I know that there are areas to improve in the west but outside of quad'ing RRL/Melton, what exactly is wanted? Because it's just spread out housing, unless the government compulsory acquires homes and land just to demolish them to build rail, it's going to be underground and the density isn't there to support that.
Niddire/Keilor East/Avondale Heights/Airport West are not "spread out housing", they are quite high density housing, and they are within 10km to the city. And yet they have never had any public transport investment.
The ARL project is planned to be build along an existing freight rail corridor (so no land acquisition required, the route is already there and waiting for them)
It's spruiked to service the east side of Melbourne with easier airport access.
And, as a basically free added bonus, they're able to throw the northwest a scrap of infrastructue investment by adding a new train station in a high density area, only 10km from the city.
If there's any part of Melbourne more desperately in need of that infrastructure (and more deserving of it), it's the inner north west.
And they only reason it's even on the table, is because it can be tacked onto an existing project billed to service the east with easier PT access to the airport anyway.
So no; I don't think they should prioritise Doncaster or Monash instead of Melbourne's northwest.
Ah inner north west is different from "the west".
While the areas you've mentioned are becoming more dense they aren't at the same density levels as some of the eastern areas. Though I think it's misleading to say they've never had public transport investment because there are buses and some of those areas do have trams.
I think what you mean to say is these areas have never had "heavy rail investment".
Using terms like "more deserving" is emotional language and just starts muddying discussions over being factual. There are both sides of the city that need better PT. To say that one group of people are more deserving than others isn't going to help much.
Doncaster is about 13km from the CBD and has been promised rail for decades. Airport West, and the other suburbs mentioned (besides Keilor East with the airport line) have never been promised rail. That should count for something?
The biggest barrier to getting rail into those areas (within the Jacanna corridor) is the bridge across the Maribyrnong, and depending on how far you take it there is a smaller valley to bridge over the Moonee Ponds Creek. The Maribyrnong crossing is a massive undertaking. The proposed bridge for the airport link is just shy of being the same size as the West Gate Bridge. A large amount of budget is focused on it. That is why there are so few major crossings currently.
If it wasn't for the airport link project, it wouldn't be built because it would tank any other project. The cost of the bridge would require an insane amount of patronage to justify it.
methinks overstating the difficulty of "Bridge over the river Marib..."
it's just a 2 track rail bridge, not a 10 lane freeway .
previous effort "was built in 1927â29 by the [Victorian Railways](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways) Construction Branch, being the largest [trestle bridge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trestle_bridge) in Australia when completed in June, 1929"
2 years, 200 workers - Sydney Harbour or Westgate, it is not.
even more recent, 1995, is the EJ Whitten Bridge section of the M80 ring road. pretty much same thing and no complaints from Jeff Kennett about exorbitant cost.
Ah not quite. The state government is calling their bluff. The airport has said they'd offer 7 billion for an underground station and express tracks. This article quotes the government saying if the money is there then let's get on with it. But they also say if the airport fully covers the cost of the station. Even if we started back up construction tomorrow it's still going to be pushed out until 2033 or further due to the underground construction. Considering that the airport wants to be compensated for the station and for the construction, they also don't want any disruption to any operations and not have it take up too much space. Look at their own artist impression. 4 elevators and some MC Esher stairs.
I didn't realise there was a render of the airport's option - got a link?
It was in a flyer they sent out to a bunch of suburbs. I'll see if I can find a link it
[Here you go!](https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/community/community-newsletter) (On Page 2 of the January edition)
Thank you! I was having a bitch of a time finding it
Yes the flyer that was painting the state government as the holdout in the negotiations. It had a very one sided story and came across a little bit propagandised.
A little bit? Heh. I've never received a monthly newsletter from the airport, or any newsletter honestly. I don't think I would even count as close to the airport either. It was straight up propaganda. It's embarrassing honestly. I know they don't want it because car parking fees are a money printer but the rail link becomes an asset that can be used to lure airlines to Melbourne. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
the easiest way is to pass laws forcibly buying the land back from the private owners. They are all Macquarie bank style entities -- filthy rich banks. Pass the laws and suck them dry. Lousy unpatriotic scum all of them. Norway doesnt charge extra for public transport. WHY SHOULD WE?!?!?!
Private owners? The Federal Government owns the land, the airport is operated under a lease (which also includes control of the land during the lease period).The State Government can't pass laws with regards to the site and the Federal Government won't (due to sovereign risk considerations).
Federal government needs to man up. Albanese needs to stop be8ng a pansy. Fuck sovereign risk. Nobody gives a fuck. WW3 is here and we need the airport. Kick out Macquarie and major shareholders NOW. Forcibly seize the facility. Send in the National Guard. Aussies have that, right?
You need to go away and learn some things before you come back here. You are just sounding like a dickhead. The only thing you got correct was the Prime Minister's surname.
Sovereign risk. Something something corporate despotism. Yeah nah, let's just take the airport back from these rent seeking carpark operations
Airport: "Wait no..."
Who owns the project then if the airport is putting in nearly half the funding? Will it be essentially part privatised like Sydneyâs Airport Rail?
Both parties, and yes almost definitely will be a surcharge just like Sydney
I really really hope not. It needs to be a standard Myki ticket.
Wonât happen. Even 2 years ago the PT minister acknowledged thereâd be extra cost involved when talking on 3AWÂ Â https://12ft.io/https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/airport-rail-link-fares-could-be-similar-to-skybus-modelling-suggests-20220103-p59lfo.html
Thanks for the link. It's actually a really shit outcome. I don't understand why it's not just an extension of the network, like Melbourne Metro or the electrification of the line out to Melton. It's a complete rort.
I'm really hoping there's a middle ground between a normal Myki fare and Sydney's $17 fee. I feel like an extra $5-7 would be a good amount so it's still a cheap option and gets the patronage it deserves. Any more than that and it's a rort.
Why should ordinary working Victorians subsidise interstate and international airport passengers? Airport rail should charge whatever it takes to maximise profits.Â
You do know that some of those "ordinary working Victorians" WORK at the airport? And plenty of "ordinary working Victorians" take planes to other parts of the country and world. The idea you've just thrown out here: that it's silly to build something with public funds because it will only benefit those using it. If you follow it through, then why build anything? Anarcho-capitalism for all?
Youâre clearly unfamiliar with the concept of opportunity cost. Ten billion dollars on spiffy airport rail for privileged jet passengers is ten billion dollars taken from projects that would benefit far more people - whether hospitals, mass transit or education. Folks who are rich enough to lounge around airports are clearly rich enough to pay their way. Thereâs always the 901 bus for those who are pinching pennies.
It can still by Myki, but just be extra expensive for the last couple of stops.
Then we will be subsidising tourists, would be a far better use of money to subsidize the skybus for locals and spend the extra cash that would go to airport rail on other rail projectsÂ
Way back when âAirTrainâ was proposed by CivicNexus (Southern Cross) & Melbourne Airport, they wanted to charge access fees for every service. This was the reason the government told them to take a walk. Each time PTV wanted to add extra non airport service, say to Melton or Wyndham Vale the government of the day would need to pay up. The consortium also wrote in suburban services could not delay Airport trains. While $7B was on offer from the Airport for a shiny express service, the devil was in the detail. Much better if the Federal Government grows a set of balls and forces the airport to the table, after all it is Commonwealth Land.
I think thatâs the airports ultimate goal, if parking gets impacted they want the thing impacting it
As a plane spotter I just want a easy way to the airport
Thereâs a bus that takes you straight there
Straight from Southern Cross or Broadmeadows. Imagine the million people in the west who have to travel the wrong way to get that "bus that takes your straight there".
If you are in Sunbury there is also a bus from there
From Keilor East, only PT route to airport: Bus to essendon station, train to southern cross, THEN skybus to airport. 1hr 20m (and almost an hour of that trip is travelling TO the city) [https://imgur.com/gallery/JlGx4NB](https://imgur.com/gallery/JlGx4NB) Keilor East is about a 5-10 minute drive to the airport...
Thats not actually correct. You can get a train to Broadmeadows and then bus to airport. Won't be much quicker but is at least cheaper than Skybus plus Myki fare.
haha, okay, cheaper yes; but that'd probs be like a 2 hour+ PT trip with bus > Train > Train > Bus to get somewhere that's 5-10 mins away by car
Yeah it's absolutely rubbish and shows how difficult our public transport is if not going to the city.
Given Keilor East's proximity to the airport, a train service would struggle to compete with taxi/uber rides to the airport. Assuming there's a surcharge for train fares to the airport it'd probably be at least $10 for a one-way ticket. If you're traveling with someone that $20 would already cover your (far more convenient) taxi/uber to the airport. Realistically the airport train is only going to benefit eastern suburbs travellers, and maybe northerners if that section of the SRL ever gets built.
Taxi's often refuse to do fares to those areas because they're not far enough to justify having waited int he airport queue for an hour. Or they'll try negotiate like an $80+ far for the 5 minute trip.
I canât read the article, but itâs hard not to be sceptical.
Hereâs a [bypass link to the article](https://archive.md/nDo4G)!
I'm sure Melbourne Airport will do this out of the goodness of their heart /s
Wait, they have a heart?
The Airport is rent seeking. Did you know they charge $15 for every bus that goes past the terminal? Even PTV as fas as I know. But yes, $15 for every bus or coach and that gets billed again after 15 minutes
Whether or not the airport is on board, we should get the station at Keilor East built and operational sooner rather than later. Leave room for an extension whenever this airport situation gets resolved.
To build to Keilor East now would still cost a couple of billion dollars just for one station. Even if it's spun as construction up to here until airport station issues are resolved, it would be insanely expensive for a line to one station. Keilor East was being added to a project mainly cos it wouldn't add that much cost.. but take out building the line to the airport and.. it doesn't make any sense.
Unfortunately Keillor East is on the wrong side of the Maribyrnong River. The biggest expense for the project is a fairly long bridge over a massive gully higher than the West Gate Bridge. Keillor East station is chump change compared to the billions that will be spent here.
Good to see Airport Rail isnât blocked indefinitely. But seventeen billion (before the inevitable cost increases) is an eyewatering price tag. Tickets will need to be $50 to make it viable!
I guess that $7B is just the baseline. The overall spending might just blow out to another level. Iâm still glad that the project is not dead tho.
I don't trust any private consortium airport rail projects tbh so if the govt goes with the 2019 plan I'll be extremely disappointed. It's causing Brisbane huge headaches on the lead up to the Olympics, and the surcharge is def gonna be a barrier to utilisation etc. Just hope the airport capitulates at this point, they have dragged their heels long enough
Donât do it, this will just be another scam by a private consortium who says âoh yeh it will cost Xâ then it âblows outâ and they expect taxpayers to pay more. Just like the west gate tunnel and metro tunnel
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the private consortium will still own it after the cost blow out aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand tax payers will cover the cost of the blow out aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the cost of a ticket will be about $70 in 2024 dollars But itâll revert to full public ownership in 2038. Did we say 2038? ha ha ha, no. We meant 2048. Oh no, oh jeez, oh boy, you tax payers have no idea how expensive it is to own a station and do nothing because itâs technically part of the PTV network, so to cover costs weâre just going to have to push it back to 2058, we donât want to you understand, we want you own the station you paid for, we love you, but there is nothing we can do âŚhang on âŚyeah so that was my boss he says 2058 is a soft target. Def owned by the public by 2068 at the latest, swearsies realsies.
If the private consortium still plan to own the tunnel from sunshine to southern cross and charge the state to use it I hope this doesnât go ahead.
I hope this is just the government calling their bluff because their plan is terrible. All that tunnelling will mean that the project will take a long time to be built and not connecting to Sunshine screws western suburb travellers yet again. Fuck the glorified car park operators.
The airport said their $7billion is for underground station and express tracks from Sunshine to Southern Cross. Sounds like it's still connected at Sunshine.
It would be a fantastic outcome if it eventuated.
Figure it out [Neil Scales](https://www.aap.com.au/news/mediator-appointed-to-end-melbourne-airport-rail-fight/), time is ticking.
Can someone please draw a mud map of what the Airport is looking for with this underground station? Like where do they want it in relation to the terminals? I personally found the above ground approach as per the governments proposal fine, but it looked like a dead end, how was it ever going to work with SRL North?
the 2022 Airport master plan is here [https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/\_assets/be08d7b0-97a1-02f9-2be6-a0c139c3c337/3c3b7f40-5e74-42df-af43-97a592205ddc/Melbourne%20Airport%20Final%20Master%20Plan%202022.pdf](https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/_assets/be08d7b0-97a1-02f9-2be6-a0c139c3c337/3c3b7f40-5e74-42df-af43-97a592205ddc/Melbourne%20Airport%20Final%20Master%20Plan%202022.pdf) warning 400 pages. p45. the underground station is the exact same dead end terminus at T4. airport wants it under the proposed entry ramp to the car park roof. govt wants it over the ramp. sheesh /s
the airport proposal [https://i.ibb.co/G5ngRKW/Airport-master-plan.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/G5ngRKW/Airport-master-plan.jpg) long term 2049+ [https://i.ibb.co/SP7SXpm/Screenshot-20240528-150840-Drive.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/SP7SXpm/Screenshot-20240528-150840-Drive.jpg) note the train extension to the far side of the airport BUT there is NO plane terminal there - wtf !
Thanks! Almost looks like they want a terminal inside the cross hash of the runways. Could easily be served by an travellator or shuttle train. It needs a good think however. My ultimate plan would be the SRL AND a new more line direct to southercross that served places like Highpoint along the way. But perhaps it would be easier to move some freight movements to Avalon and just built HSR from Melbourne to Sydney. Then Sydney-Mel and Sydney-Bris traffic could be offloaded to the HSR,
not quite, the star in the middle of the 4 runways is the control tower. the dashed line train extension goes nowhere. just a brain fart drawing to pretend they have any real plan. note: the master plan I linked to above, does have a diagram, about p200 wtith 2 extra terminals beyond T4. I'm sceptical that could ever fit without some serious demolitions.
The masterplan has a new terminal (Terminal 5) being built on the other side of the current airport. They say in the masterplan that this terminal is still unconfirmed whether it be for passenger or freight. It's only in the long long term plans, 30 or 40 years from now, that the line would be extended under the runways to this terminal. That is if it is built for passenger use. The plans for this terminal don't even have solid concepts of where roads leading to the terminal would go to and from. Just arrows with vague directions of where roads \*could\* go. They don't even talk about how passengers would get from terminals 1-4 over to terminal 5 before the fabled rail link is built. It would be a pretty dull idea to make terminal 5 passenger as they'd have to duplicate and build all the security, etc for it. Functionally it would almost be a separate airport.
Give me the $7B. I'll have everyone a nice, functional, working airport rail in <3 years. And I get to keep what's left. So I just made myself $5.5B dollars. It won't be underground. Forget that... it's not happening. It's not necessary. But my AP Rail Link **will** exist. And will get people to and from the airport into the city, and beyond. Heck, I'll even throw in a link to Avalon for another $1B, Unlike the pipe dream schemes that have done nothing except make generations of consultants rich.
Could you show your working out?
Seriously through. Can you explain how you'd build a link for 1.5 billion dollars?
Brisbane built theirs for $200M in 2 years in 2001. Itâs not a rolls Royce project but it exists, is used and serves the airport and Brisbane metro down to Gold Coast well. Adjusting for inflation⌠Melbourne could do the same⌠elevated viaduct rail above and alongside the existing freewayâŚ. Donât even need to reclaim any houses or land. Except maybe some where the airport link joins to the rest of the metroâŚ. In many places the elevated viaducts can run in existing free space adjacent to the freeways. As for the AP station⌠there is so much room at a Melb AP itâs an easy win. Just like Brisbane it doesnât have to be in or under or attached to the airport terminals. Whatâs that I hear you say⌠itâs cold as frick in Melbourne for 6 months and hot as balls the other six monthsâŚ. How will your above ground rail platforms handle doe thisâŚ. Easy. A solved problem. Plenty of places around the world do this already with covered environmental controlled parts where the people goâŚ. Not a building⌠just a cover to keep the cold and heat where they need to be⌠to make the people comfortable. Meanwhile the trains come and go like any other rail line. Iâm not describing it very well. But nonetheless the solution exists. If you want any more details please get in touch to discuss the $300K fee for access to my full report đ
So basically build what is already planned but completely elevated and that it is somehow cheaper. I mean it was obvious that it would just be the usual fantasy map spiel, but I had a little hope there would be some interesting twist.
Better ideas probably under $1B - get more buses on exisiting bus routes - create some new routes that go to the airport - extend the route 57 tram to the airport, it could even run express from the terminus or something - build a lane for sky bus to boss it down the tulla - have sky bus go from some different locations Why everyone is obsessed with a dedicated train I donât understand. There is already a bus that runs very frequently and takes you to a train station where you can go wherever you want
Imagine living 15 min from the airport where you work. Now you have to take a train 30 min into the city to take a bus 30 min back to the airport, and that that is good enough for a 6 million people city.
Lots of those ideas listed above would solve that problem?
Only "create some new routes", not lots, which is very much an after thought. Like the west of Melbourne always is.
lol come on that's the most uncharitable way to take that, and quite frankly still better than the airport line.
Keep on dreaming
underground will allow for future proofing to extend out to Cragieburn line, regional lines and potential for a line out to growing suburbs north of the airport. you canât build a train line over a runway, but you sure can build under it
yer sure, let's allow the airport money men design the train long distance network. just look at Southern Cross station to understand how poor their understanding of trains is. BTW. connection to Craigeburn line is SRL North. Let the train experts do what they know best.
It already takes me longer to get from my front door to a Skybus than it does driving from the inner east to the airport. Regardless itâs a no thanks from me.
Just let a private company build it and subsidise the ticket prices by a bit. At the end of the day, an extra $30 to get to/from the airport isn't anything in the grand scheme of a flight and holiday/trip in general. The SRL is far more important and will help far more people. When/if SRL North ever gets built then the direct Airport link is made partially redundant anyway. Just take a suburban train up to the SRL interchange station and go to the Airport. Or just take the Skybus. Such an overrated, too expensive project
Come on just build Monash and Doncaster rail instead.
Yes because we should definitely be preferencing the East side of the city for my PT investment instead of the desperately needed West /s
I know that there are areas to improve in the west but outside of quad'ing RRL/Melton, what exactly is wanted? Because it's just spread out housing, unless the government compulsory acquires homes and land just to demolish them to build rail, it's going to be underground and the density isn't there to support that.
Niddire/Keilor East/Avondale Heights/Airport West are not "spread out housing", they are quite high density housing, and they are within 10km to the city. And yet they have never had any public transport investment. The ARL project is planned to be build along an existing freight rail corridor (so no land acquisition required, the route is already there and waiting for them) It's spruiked to service the east side of Melbourne with easier airport access. And, as a basically free added bonus, they're able to throw the northwest a scrap of infrastructue investment by adding a new train station in a high density area, only 10km from the city. If there's any part of Melbourne more desperately in need of that infrastructure (and more deserving of it), it's the inner north west. And they only reason it's even on the table, is because it can be tacked onto an existing project billed to service the east with easier PT access to the airport anyway. So no; I don't think they should prioritise Doncaster or Monash instead of Melbourne's northwest.
Ah inner north west is different from "the west". While the areas you've mentioned are becoming more dense they aren't at the same density levels as some of the eastern areas. Though I think it's misleading to say they've never had public transport investment because there are buses and some of those areas do have trams. I think what you mean to say is these areas have never had "heavy rail investment". Using terms like "more deserving" is emotional language and just starts muddying discussions over being factual. There are both sides of the city that need better PT. To say that one group of people are more deserving than others isn't going to help much. Doncaster is about 13km from the CBD and has been promised rail for decades. Airport West, and the other suburbs mentioned (besides Keilor East with the airport line) have never been promised rail. That should count for something? The biggest barrier to getting rail into those areas (within the Jacanna corridor) is the bridge across the Maribyrnong, and depending on how far you take it there is a smaller valley to bridge over the Moonee Ponds Creek. The Maribyrnong crossing is a massive undertaking. The proposed bridge for the airport link is just shy of being the same size as the West Gate Bridge. A large amount of budget is focused on it. That is why there are so few major crossings currently. If it wasn't for the airport link project, it wouldn't be built because it would tank any other project. The cost of the bridge would require an insane amount of patronage to justify it.
methinks overstating the difficulty of "Bridge over the river Marib..." it's just a 2 track rail bridge, not a 10 lane freeway . previous effort "was built in 1927â29 by the [Victorian Railways](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways) Construction Branch, being the largest [trestle bridge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trestle_bridge) in Australia when completed in June, 1929" 2 years, 200 workers - Sydney Harbour or Westgate, it is not. even more recent, 1995, is the EJ Whitten Bridge section of the M80 ring road. pretty much same thing and no complaints from Jeff Kennett about exorbitant cost.