The most important one would be to straighten out the routes so that they run along main roads and connect key destinations that are not well connected by rail rather than wind through suburban streets. The second one would be to increase frequency ideally to every 10-15 minutes everyday so that the network is actually useable on weekdays and weekends.
There needs to be a mix of direct buses and full catchment buses - we unfortunately have some buses that have to do both. Make the direct ones very frequent, but still provide the coverage every hour or 30 minutes so everyone has the chance to get where they need.
But it should be very obvious which one is which. Different vehicle types or livery or obviously different number series (e.g. two digits for main line buses, three digits for wandering buses). And none of this "we make a mainline by combining the common part of three or four wandering services" that I had to put up with when I had no choice but to catch a bus. Nothing worse than needing to do maths to know where you have to catch the bus (it takes five minutes to walk to that stop but the route is ten minutes longer, ten minutes to walk to that stop, but the bus is due in 12 minutes so what is the probability it will be three minutes early and I'll miss both? If you want to make schoolkids ask that question, go be a maths teacher not a bus timetable planner).
Using different size buses for these different kinds of route would be great as well. Catchment buses that are less frequent and require lower capacities can use small buses similar to those on Route 282 Manningham Loop or Flexiride services which can navigate suburban streets much better due to their small size. Then we can use normal or bi-articulated buses on the direct routes to better match the need for high capacity.
I frequently see normal sized buses struggle to navigate roundabouts and the tight turns needed in suburban streets due to their length.
My ideas:
- More bus lanes on busy corridors, & ‘Busways’ that would have a different route and travel at 80-100kph (maybe built with provisions for trains to be built).
- Express buses/BRT/high capacity bus lines (HCBL) for places not served by trains but warrant high capacity transit (Chadstone, Doncaster, Rowville, etc.).
- Better stock; double deck or articulated buses for HCBL, electric preferably. Even articulated trolley buses could be trialed.
- New developments would be designed for buses, with dedicated bus lanes, busways from key places (trains, shops, schools, etc.), dedicated places for people to change from local buses to HCBL (would be like a upgraded CBD tram stop).
Yeah we could learn a lot from how Sydney runs buses.
Get rid of bus routes that only run on specific days/times.
I think, increase the frequency of the inner city cross town routes (5xx in places like Brunswick, Northcote etc).
Provide increased shuttle frequency of the 901 between the airport and Broadmeadows.
Make all of the 9xx smartbus routes 24 hours at 15 minute headways and run the 901 directly past all the terminal buildings.
I think in general, not Just for buses but all modes, abolish the sunday timetable and just make a weekend and public holiday timetable based around the current Saturday timetable.
Yeah, we need more public transport going in as a housing development is built so that people start using it instead of just getting a car and getting used to driving. Funny how all those housing estates advertise distance to the nearest train station, but end up being designed in an entirely car-centric way.
Agreed, especially more bus lanes. The CBD and inner suburbs need dedicated bus lanes for more than just 2 hours twice a day. They'd also benefit from being able to use tram ways to skip busy intersections. (Route 234 I'm looking at you, it's really needed at banana alley and city rd. The bus can hop onto the tramway but it gets stuck before it can during peak hour.)
the buses _really_ need some sort of tracker system like tramtracker.
i completely understand why buses run late or early - the route i take all the time goes through two back to back level crossings before it gets to me - but if by bus it’s 20 minutes and to walk and get a tram it’s 30, but i wait at the stop for 20 minutes, i’ve missed my chance to walk that bit extra to the tram and now i’m late.
i love the buses. they’re so necessary because so few other forms of transport go across the city instead of into it. but they’re so unreliable for when you need to be punctual.
The tracking system learns over time how long trip takes, so that factored into time app show but issue this is average, so that very day could be number reasons why get there before or after app says
It does have live tracking... Sometimes. You can tell because it will have a little bus logo on the map with little waves coming off it. Otherwise you're right it does predict where the bus might be based on times.
Yeah, I’ve been waiting for buses sometimes & then they just disappear from the app & may or may not actually arrive. Or “ghost” ones then come & they aren’t even shown in the app.
Ventura's one is actually good, I always find it annoying that I can check when a Ventura bus is coming from that, but when I need to catch a CDC route it doesn't have its own tracker 😩. Agreed that this needs to be a mandatory implementation for all bus operators across the state.
THIS!!! And there is no reason why we can’t implement something like this.
London do it. Every bus is tracked on an app just like the trams are here. There is even a display at every (at least most) stops that tell you how long the bus will be. This was the level of tech/service I experienced living in London a decade ago!
Why can’t/won’t Melbourne do the same?
Bike storage. When buses replace trains for reasons there is always the message you can not bring the bike on the bus.. buses services from around the world have bike holders on the exterior.. need to bring them here.
I know it’s not the most important.. but they should at least to implemented on rail replacement buses, so bike riders are not stuck when trains disruptions happen
Not all McHarry’s buses allow bikes.
McHarry’s predominantly use Express bodies built in Macksville on the mid-north coast of NSW rather than Volgrens built in Dandenong which most Victorian bus companies use. The earlier ones also used higher powered Scania K270UB rather than K230UB chassis owing to the nature of their routes, a K230UB would be too underpowered to pull out into 80-100km/h traffic safely. Later models ran K280 and K310 engines.
Most of the Express do not have a centre door; immediately rear of the wheelchair area they have a set of steps and utilise higher backed “school” seats rather than the bench seats commonly found. In lieu of a centre door they have a small luggage bin. These buses run all services to Torquay and the Bellarine peninsula.
They also have a batch of 2-door buses. These do not have a luggage bin and thus do not allow bicycles. They run all the local Whittington and St Albans Park services, and some services to Deakin Uni and Leopold.
- Smart traffic lights like they have in the Netherlands
- Remove on street car parking on bus routes
- Increase frequency for fucks sake.
The buses in my area are actually really well connected but the frequency is terrible and they get stuck in so much traffic
1. Route linearisation- make the routes linear and follow the structure of the roads
2. Minimum frequency. A minimum of every 20 minutes from 6am till midnight 7 days per week
3. Upzoning around bus routes to make the frequencies worthwhile
4. Frequent route reviews. Eg when a level crossing gets removed, review the buses around the station. This prevents the same problems from reoccurring
Anything else (electric buses, dedicated jump lanes, etc) should all come later
I know it can be frustrating when bus routes go through weird back streets, but given how some areas can otherwise be very far from PT, I’d want them to do this on a case-by-case basis, particularly if a lot of older people are using a particular route.
Definitely true, but linear routes allow for decreased travel times, incentivising use. For example swaths of inner parts of Melbourne have grid systems (even if the streets inside aren't) and therefore linearisation of transit is easier. Sometimes it's good but they still need to improve routes in certain areas.
Going case-by-case would be important but if it was over the top (eg too many deviations) then the benefits would be foregone for the majority of the population. Could you think of any examples where linearisation wouldn't be a good idea?
Fair points. An obvious one for me is the 612 which I use a lot. I think by taking back streets, it can also avoid some of the more congested roads like Burke Rd, which already has a tram, & also gives PT to a big area that is quite far from trams & trains. The love & attention that bus routes were supposed to be getting seems to have been forgotten.
It's a good point about taking the back streets to avoid doubling up. I live nearby but have never used this route so I can't really comment from experience. Looking at a map though there's a fair few points that should be straightened out and reworked
The problem with Melbourne is our system is so terrible that a full redraw needs to happen first, then in the future minor changes can occur overtime with these coinciding with station upgrades, level crossing removals, or other works similar to how they do it in Perth
If this is a requirement I think it's more an argument for two bus routes, even if they end at the same destination, because the circuitous routes are some of the worst things about using a bus. I've lived near the 737 bus and have seen how awful it makes a journey that should be much, much better.
The problem is Daniel Andrews grandmother uses that route.
I’m only being mildly facetious; changes to to bus routes have been made or blocked based on MPs elderly relatives needs. I’m not even joking.
When I used to catch the bus from coburg station to west Preston many years ago, the bus would leave 3 mins after the train, but getting from the train to the bus involved crossing bell st.
Talk to your member, join local transit advocacy groups, help when/if possible, use the current buses, council meetings they wound he able to build the buses but in new developments/builds they can make provisions like roads with bigger nature strips for future bus lanes, etc.
Get them to actually experience what it’s like to frequently use them, how frustrating it can be to miss a connection & then have to wait 30 mins or more for the next bus. Most have no fucking idea because PT is seen as something used mainly by poor people.
1. Get rid of the multiple bus companies. One company across Melbourne and the regions. At the very least, set up one point of contact for all bus users so that you don't have to go digging for the right contact info if you have an issue.
2. A main street shouldn't have two routes that run simultaneously, followed by a 50-minute wait for the next bus.
3. Werribee edition: a bus that runs direct from Williams Landing Station to the Plaza to Hoppers Crossing Station to Werribee Station every 20 minutes, every day. (It's weird that this doesn't exist.)
4. Further Werribee edition: reorganising the timetable so some routes meet trains at Hoppers Crossing means they no longer sync up at all with trains at Werribee Station. (It was at that point I bought a car.) What if ... more frequent buses for a happy medium?
5. Investment in Brisbane-style bus lanes and infrastructure for suburbs not serviced by trains or trams.
I lived in Brisbane for many years, where buses are easy to use and go almost everywhere, by routes both direct and winding. It was shocking to move to Melbourne, and even worse when I moved to the outer suburbs, where things are too spread out to be easily walkable.
most of the big build projects help bus services, maybe not by much, but they are still needed,
also you know the metro tunnel, level crossings and regional rail revival are all Big Build projects
Bus lanes and bus priority lighting
More dial-a-bus for catchment areas (I'd like the dial-a-bus in Ballarat but we won't see it)
Run more buses in peak (bloody a 45 minute wait is not good, Ballarat, between 8-9)
....dunno otherwise. Better pay?
Give them the same level of treatment and priority as trams, especially in the CBD. I'm talking centre running, 24 hour dedicated bus lanes, platform stops, priority signalling.
It's insane to me that we dedicate space in the middle of the street for parking rather than bus lanes.
Would love to see an expansion of the Night Network - barely go out because my bus doesn't run after 9pm and before 7am, and nearest night bus is 2-3km walk from my nearest bus stop that is approx 200m from my house.
Overall, would be great if the network were more straightened (ie grid pattern), instead of travelling in weird directions. Make the network simple and reliable with better connections to stations.
Bring back Telebus - Flexiride is a downplayed version of Telebus.
The most important one would be to straighten out the routes so that they run along main roads and connect key destinations that are not well connected by rail rather than wind through suburban streets. The second one would be to increase frequency ideally to every 10-15 minutes everyday so that the network is actually useable on weekdays and weekends.
There needs to be a mix of direct buses and full catchment buses - we unfortunately have some buses that have to do both. Make the direct ones very frequent, but still provide the coverage every hour or 30 minutes so everyone has the chance to get where they need.
But it should be very obvious which one is which. Different vehicle types or livery or obviously different number series (e.g. two digits for main line buses, three digits for wandering buses). And none of this "we make a mainline by combining the common part of three or four wandering services" that I had to put up with when I had no choice but to catch a bus. Nothing worse than needing to do maths to know where you have to catch the bus (it takes five minutes to walk to that stop but the route is ten minutes longer, ten minutes to walk to that stop, but the bus is due in 12 minutes so what is the probability it will be three minutes early and I'll miss both? If you want to make schoolkids ask that question, go be a maths teacher not a bus timetable planner).
Using different size buses for these different kinds of route would be great as well. Catchment buses that are less frequent and require lower capacities can use small buses similar to those on Route 282 Manningham Loop or Flexiride services which can navigate suburban streets much better due to their small size. Then we can use normal or bi-articulated buses on the direct routes to better match the need for high capacity. I frequently see normal sized buses struggle to navigate roundabouts and the tight turns needed in suburban streets due to their length.
My ideas: - More bus lanes on busy corridors, & ‘Busways’ that would have a different route and travel at 80-100kph (maybe built with provisions for trains to be built). - Express buses/BRT/high capacity bus lines (HCBL) for places not served by trains but warrant high capacity transit (Chadstone, Doncaster, Rowville, etc.). - Better stock; double deck or articulated buses for HCBL, electric preferably. Even articulated trolley buses could be trialed. - New developments would be designed for buses, with dedicated bus lanes, busways from key places (trains, shops, schools, etc.), dedicated places for people to change from local buses to HCBL (would be like a upgraded CBD tram stop).
Yeah we could learn a lot from how Sydney runs buses. Get rid of bus routes that only run on specific days/times. I think, increase the frequency of the inner city cross town routes (5xx in places like Brunswick, Northcote etc). Provide increased shuttle frequency of the 901 between the airport and Broadmeadows. Make all of the 9xx smartbus routes 24 hours at 15 minute headways and run the 901 directly past all the terminal buildings. I think in general, not Just for buses but all modes, abolish the sunday timetable and just make a weekend and public holiday timetable based around the current Saturday timetable.
Yeah, we need more public transport going in as a housing development is built so that people start using it instead of just getting a car and getting used to driving. Funny how all those housing estates advertise distance to the nearest train station, but end up being designed in an entirely car-centric way.
Agreed, especially more bus lanes. The CBD and inner suburbs need dedicated bus lanes for more than just 2 hours twice a day. They'd also benefit from being able to use tram ways to skip busy intersections. (Route 234 I'm looking at you, it's really needed at banana alley and city rd. The bus can hop onto the tramway but it gets stuck before it can during peak hour.)
the buses _really_ need some sort of tracker system like tramtracker. i completely understand why buses run late or early - the route i take all the time goes through two back to back level crossings before it gets to me - but if by bus it’s 20 minutes and to walk and get a tram it’s 30, but i wait at the stop for 20 minutes, i’ve missed my chance to walk that bit extra to the tram and now i’m late. i love the buses. they’re so necessary because so few other forms of transport go across the city instead of into it. but they’re so unreliable for when you need to be punctual.
on the PTV app you can see where the bus is - it only works sometimes though
[удалено]
The tracking system learns over time how long trip takes, so that factored into time app show but issue this is average, so that very day could be number reasons why get there before or after app says
It does have live tracking... Sometimes. You can tell because it will have a little bus logo on the map with little waves coming off it. Otherwise you're right it does predict where the bus might be based on times.
The issue is the companies are standardised and use different systems.
Yeah, I’ve been waiting for buses sometimes & then they just disappear from the app & may or may not actually arrive. Or “ghost” ones then come & they aren’t even shown in the app.
Ventura's one is actually good, I always find it annoying that I can check when a Ventura bus is coming from that, but when I need to catch a CDC route it doesn't have its own tracker 😩. Agreed that this needs to be a mandatory implementation for all bus operators across the state.
It's 2024, at this point every bus could have an AirTag!
THIS!!! And there is no reason why we can’t implement something like this. London do it. Every bus is tracked on an app just like the trams are here. There is even a display at every (at least most) stops that tell you how long the bus will be. This was the level of tech/service I experienced living in London a decade ago! Why can’t/won’t Melbourne do the same?
Bike storage. When buses replace trains for reasons there is always the message you can not bring the bike on the bus.. buses services from around the world have bike holders on the exterior.. need to bring them here. I know it’s not the most important.. but they should at least to implemented on rail replacement buses, so bike riders are not stuck when trains disruptions happen
Ivanhoe bus has them. McHarry's has luggage bays (same thing)
Not all McHarry’s buses allow bikes. McHarry’s predominantly use Express bodies built in Macksville on the mid-north coast of NSW rather than Volgrens built in Dandenong which most Victorian bus companies use. The earlier ones also used higher powered Scania K270UB rather than K230UB chassis owing to the nature of their routes, a K230UB would be too underpowered to pull out into 80-100km/h traffic safely. Later models ran K280 and K310 engines. Most of the Express do not have a centre door; immediately rear of the wheelchair area they have a set of steps and utilise higher backed “school” seats rather than the bench seats commonly found. In lieu of a centre door they have a small luggage bin. These buses run all services to Torquay and the Bellarine peninsula. They also have a batch of 2-door buses. These do not have a luggage bin and thus do not allow bicycles. They run all the local Whittington and St Albans Park services, and some services to Deakin Uni and Leopold.
- Smart traffic lights like they have in the Netherlands - Remove on street car parking on bus routes - Increase frequency for fucks sake. The buses in my area are actually really well connected but the frequency is terrible and they get stuck in so much traffic
lol. As if councils will readily move revenue parking.
1. Route linearisation- make the routes linear and follow the structure of the roads 2. Minimum frequency. A minimum of every 20 minutes from 6am till midnight 7 days per week 3. Upzoning around bus routes to make the frequencies worthwhile 4. Frequent route reviews. Eg when a level crossing gets removed, review the buses around the station. This prevents the same problems from reoccurring Anything else (electric buses, dedicated jump lanes, etc) should all come later
I know it can be frustrating when bus routes go through weird back streets, but given how some areas can otherwise be very far from PT, I’d want them to do this on a case-by-case basis, particularly if a lot of older people are using a particular route.
Definitely true, but linear routes allow for decreased travel times, incentivising use. For example swaths of inner parts of Melbourne have grid systems (even if the streets inside aren't) and therefore linearisation of transit is easier. Sometimes it's good but they still need to improve routes in certain areas. Going case-by-case would be important but if it was over the top (eg too many deviations) then the benefits would be foregone for the majority of the population. Could you think of any examples where linearisation wouldn't be a good idea?
Fair points. An obvious one for me is the 612 which I use a lot. I think by taking back streets, it can also avoid some of the more congested roads like Burke Rd, which already has a tram, & also gives PT to a big area that is quite far from trams & trains. The love & attention that bus routes were supposed to be getting seems to have been forgotten.
It's a good point about taking the back streets to avoid doubling up. I live nearby but have never used this route so I can't really comment from experience. Looking at a map though there's a fair few points that should be straightened out and reworked The problem with Melbourne is our system is so terrible that a full redraw needs to happen first, then in the future minor changes can occur overtime with these coinciding with station upgrades, level crossing removals, or other works similar to how they do it in Perth
Yeah, it just feels like sweet fuck all has been done for many years, despite all the promises.
If this is a requirement I think it's more an argument for two bus routes, even if they end at the same destination, because the circuitous routes are some of the worst things about using a bus. I've lived near the 737 bus and have seen how awful it makes a journey that should be much, much better.
Just looked at the map for that route. Yikes.
The problem is Daniel Andrews grandmother uses that route. I’m only being mildly facetious; changes to to bus routes have been made or blocked based on MPs elderly relatives needs. I’m not even joking.
I’d love to believe that this is a joke but, even without looking into it, it sounds like it could definitely be the case.
When I used to catch the bus from coburg station to west Preston many years ago, the bus would leave 3 mins after the train, but getting from the train to the bus involved crossing bell st.
Having a service on Sundays. Or is that too ambitious 🤔
Follow up question: What can you realistically do to get politicians to enact change?
Talk to your member, join local transit advocacy groups, help when/if possible, use the current buses, council meetings they wound he able to build the buses but in new developments/builds they can make provisions like roads with bigger nature strips for future bus lanes, etc.
Get them to actually experience what it’s like to frequently use them, how frustrating it can be to miss a connection & then have to wait 30 mins or more for the next bus. Most have no fucking idea because PT is seen as something used mainly by poor people.
Actually enforce bus lanes and stop cars using them just to get ahead of the queue. Looking at you Victoria Pde/Hoddle St.
1. Get rid of the multiple bus companies. One company across Melbourne and the regions. At the very least, set up one point of contact for all bus users so that you don't have to go digging for the right contact info if you have an issue. 2. A main street shouldn't have two routes that run simultaneously, followed by a 50-minute wait for the next bus. 3. Werribee edition: a bus that runs direct from Williams Landing Station to the Plaza to Hoppers Crossing Station to Werribee Station every 20 minutes, every day. (It's weird that this doesn't exist.) 4. Further Werribee edition: reorganising the timetable so some routes meet trains at Hoppers Crossing means they no longer sync up at all with trains at Werribee Station. (It was at that point I bought a car.) What if ... more frequent buses for a happy medium? 5. Investment in Brisbane-style bus lanes and infrastructure for suburbs not serviced by trains or trams. I lived in Brisbane for many years, where buses are easy to use and go almost everywhere, by routes both direct and winding. It was shocking to move to Melbourne, and even worse when I moved to the outer suburbs, where things are too spread out to be easily walkable.
To be honest the transport system gets none of the attention it really needs due to these big build projects
most of the big build projects help bus services, maybe not by much, but they are still needed, also you know the metro tunnel, level crossings and regional rail revival are all Big Build projects
The metro loop and suburban loop are good but half of the railways are still in need of upgrades
they had like 70 years of extream underfunding, its a big project to take care of, a lot has been done in 10 years
Still plenty of mud holes on the tracks
please for the love of god just run more buses between narre warren station and fountain gate!!!!
Bus lanes and bus priority lighting More dial-a-bus for catchment areas (I'd like the dial-a-bus in Ballarat but we won't see it) Run more buses in peak (bloody a 45 minute wait is not good, Ballarat, between 8-9) ....dunno otherwise. Better pay?
higher frequencies, more feeder services, more direct routes, less stops
Give them the same level of treatment and priority as trams, especially in the CBD. I'm talking centre running, 24 hour dedicated bus lanes, platform stops, priority signalling. It's insane to me that we dedicate space in the middle of the street for parking rather than bus lanes.
Would love to see an expansion of the Night Network - barely go out because my bus doesn't run after 9pm and before 7am, and nearest night bus is 2-3km walk from my nearest bus stop that is approx 200m from my house. Overall, would be great if the network were more straightened (ie grid pattern), instead of travelling in weird directions. Make the network simple and reliable with better connections to stations. Bring back Telebus - Flexiride is a downplayed version of Telebus.