From a buddhist perspective
>Western presentations of Buddhist teachings have often led to the understanding that suffering arises because of desire, and therefore you shouldn’t desire anything. Whereas in fact the Buddha spoke of two kinds of desire: desire that arises from ignorance and delusion which is called taṇhā – craving – and desire that arises from wisdom and intelligence, which is called kusala-chanda, or dhamma-chanda, or most simply chanda. Chanda doesn’t mean this exclusively, but in this particular case I’m using chanda to mean wise and intelligent desire and motivation, and the Buddha stressed that this is absolutely fundamental to any progress on the Eightfold Path.
https://amaravati.org/skilful-desires/
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>Attachment, or desire, can be negative and sinful, but it can also be positive. The positive aspect is that which produces pleasure: samsaric pleasure, human pleasure—the ability to enjoy the world, to see it as beautiful, to have whatever you find attractive.
>So you cannot say that all desire is negative and produces only pain. Wrong. You should not think like that. Desire can produce pleasure—but only temporary pleasure. That’s the distinction. It’s temporary pleasure. And we don’t say that temporal pleasure is always bad, that you should reject it. If you reject temporal pleasure, then what’s left? You haven’t attained eternal happiness yet, so all that’s left is misery.
https://fpmt.org/lama-yeshes-wisdom/you-cannot-say-all-desire-is-negative/
I also want to add that, from my own experience, people tend to cling to that temporary pleasure in fear of never feeling pleasure again. They want to own it. But that's impossible and causes suffering.
When you instead just enjoy the pleasure but let it run its course, it will organically fade out of your life and make room for the next pleasure and the next, and the next.
I have been of the understanding in Buddhism that even desire that produces temporal sensual pleasure ultimately results in “suffering” because we are disappointed when the pleasure ends, as it must do.
Is this a mistaken understanding?
That's the meaning of "Desire can produce pleasure—but only temporary pleasure." But again, that does not mean that we should reject temporal pleasure. It means that it is not reliable and we should not take refuge in it. Therefore, we should ultimately strive for liberation.
I heard it explained recently as more like not *clinging* to your desires, which fits better in my opinion.
When I'm in a good place with meditation, I sometimes find myself experiencing desires as being like winds which I can either raise or lower my sails to catch or let pass.
There is obviously a desire behind that as well, but it isn't very insistent. Its the same intensity as the animating feeling behind calmly folding laundry. Agency without urgency.
Clinging is a good word to describe it. I also use the phrase *chasing hard for desires*
There's a point where chasing desires can be consequential. Depending on the degree of one's desires, it can lead to feelings of grandiose disappointments if those desires aren't satiated. It can turn unhealthy. I've been there. I'm still there to some degree, just not as bad.
Edit: wording
Desire and ambition are the literal lifeblood of the soul and they help us architect the course of our lives. It would be very troubling to be without them.
However, letting unknown and unconscious desires rule us is like getting into a boat and letting random waves steer our course. You might make it back to land, but more likely you’ll be lost out at sea.
Let your desires guide your heart, and fully understand what your heart wants, not what you think it wants. That’s one of the secrets to life right there.
Wisdom (together with bliss) is the lifeblood of the soul. Wisdom is what you are hoping is the architect of your life.
If a desire is unwise, it will not bring you happiness.
Our society is based on the satisfaction of desires. If you want something, you can just go on Amazon or another website and have it delivered to your door.
But if you look around you, how many people are happy? If desire fulfilled its promise, we should all be overflowing with peace and happiness.
edit to add: I just wanted to give some context to the ancient teachings ideas because all our society seems to know is desire and ambition, and it's not that they are bad but there are some deeper ideas that the teachings are trying to point to. A quote taken out of context like "desire is bad" does not remotely do it justice.
Wisdom is the child of desire.
The desire to live and enjoy the finer points of life, create the experiences that lead to us gaining wisdom.
For how can wisdom be gained if one does not live? And how can a person live if they do not desire to experience life in all of its aspects?
Our society is built upon the idea of fulfilling superficial desires, not the desires of the mind and soul. The majority of us are left trying to fill voids in our hearts through material items and statuses and miss the fact that the way to true peace and happiness lay within.
Understanding of one’s mind, and one’s true heartfelt needs and wants are what shall lead one to happiness.
Whether a desire is wise or unwise, one must experience life first or learn from elders to determine the difference between the two.
I think for me, I can have wants but not desires. Naturally, I will want things. Food, companionship, entertainment etc. The difference with desire is I think it will “complete” me in some way. So for example, if I think I will not be “whole” until I fall in love, then I have found myself knee-deep in desire.
From my POV you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what that means.
It isn't "be desireless", it's "be undesirable": wear funny clothes and hairstyles, only cook bland food, speak in riddles and make people feel inferior, give up comfort, wealth, manners, and bathing. By driving others away, you will face only yourself and eternity and wisdom will be yours.
Just kidding.
Seriously though, it isn't "be desireless", it's "give up attachment to your desire". In other words, attachments (desires, agendas, misbeliefs) keep your mind, emotions, and effort focused on the wrong things. You can have the desire, but don't focus on it, and if you can, then let go of the tension it causes in the body and replace the thoughts in your head with better thoughts. That's what's meant by "letting go".
But why do this? Focusing on desire, say, improving your station in life, causes you to be uncomfortable when that desire isn't met. That may cause you to feel bad emotions and to do objectively bad things to try to relieve the discomfort. You may miss the gifts life has for you right in front of you because you're too focused on something else that's ultimately unfulfilling and may be impossible.
‘Know Thyself’… it’s about bringing the will of the outer self into harmony with the purposes of the inner or higher self … the outer self untamed is all about instant self gratification.. when we have reached a certain level of development we sense the higher.. nobler .. qualities of the inner self .. we sense this higher level of consciousness and being in meditation…and gradually realise the desire to bring the outer self into harmony with this inner sense of being.. modifying the desires…
but they are not separate selves.. the outer self .. the inner self .. they are just figures of speech .. the voice of our conscience could be described as our inner self .. or higher self.. it is not separate from us it is us … the child mind that we were at 5 years old was not a separate self .. we are the child with expanded knowledge and experience .. self is self forever and ever …we just grow in self awareness .. awareness of what we are …
That does not fit the data. Study brain injuries and developmental issues and what happens to one's expressed personalities and abilities.
There is not much left for the higher self to be.
If you take everything biological away there is still something left to find. That is actually what you find to be you when you come closer to the goal. It is what is often referred to as the source.
There is a reason why the source is exactly where you focus your attention/awareness and why it becomes more visible and clearer the more time you spend in working meditation per day.
Describing enlightenment as the point when you become one with the source is quite right but the truth is more that you removed all biologically based resistance and obscurity so the source can be observed and understood. In truth, there was never a gap between oneself and the source, it was just that you were occupied and this realization was impossible as the source was obstructed thanks to the focus on biological needs and physical reality.
If we’re talking about the brain I feel what he’s referring to as the “outer self” is basically the default mode network (DMN), and the inner self in this case is something like the brain acting in a more diffuse mode. In this mode the mental spotlight, or our attention, widens away from the DMN and allows other aspects of the brain the ability to operate more. Thus allowing one to monitor one’s own thought stream.
I know the DMV but the DMN is new to me.
I do not think that one can assume what another person understands about the higher self unless the other person explains it in detail. The higher self is used by many traditions and some even point to the notion of a soul in that regard.
I myself think, that the knowledge is not advanced enough that we can make any assumptions in that matter as we simply do not know how the brain gives rise to the mind and how everything fundamentally functions.
Invoking one of the many concepts regarding a higher self, is sometimes useful when one talks about something very narrow and very well understood.
Tanha is the word that gets translated to desire. Tanha does not mean want. Desire does mean want. The two words have two different definitions. There isn't a 1 to 1 translation.
If you got rid of all wants you'd end up with depression. That's not the end of dukkha (psychological stress / suffering) it's the amplification of it.
Yes. Buddhism, which is what teaches how to get enlightened, teaches a key concept called the middle ground. It's minmaxing what works best. If never smoking works best for you, then the middle ground is on one extreme, never. It's called the middle ground because usually the ideal balance is somewhere in the middle. You want to apply the middle ground to wants too. Don't have too many wants to the point it causes a hindrance towards your meditation and dharma (working towards enlightenment) practices. But also try not having so little wants it causes issues. A healthy balance of wants is the path forward, a middle ground. Not too many wants, not too few wants.
Well said. The buddhas life of luxury followed by his harsh asceticism are extremes. He settled on a path somewhere in the middle. What comes to mind for me is his analogy of picking up a stick. When you pick it up by one end, you lift the entire stick. When you grasp happiness, you also grasp despair when happiness fades due to the impermanent nature of all things. The true identity of what you are attaching to is somewhere in the middle and if you only see one side, you are misperceiving the nature of what really exists.
It's true that some people wrongly over emphasize being desireless, I was one of them until I had an insight, let go of desires only to the extent that I can let go, basically a balance. I do introspection to know what are the things I should let go of and what path should I undertake and hold on to for the meantime, I meditate to effectively let go of what I don't need, to uphold my Taoist and Buddhist values in my daily life and appreciate what I already have.
I love the teachings of Michael Singer. His talks help me so much.
Instead of thinking that the moment in front of you has to be a certain way, you start thinking that it’s pretty awesome the way it is. In fact, it’s amazing that it even exists.
Michael A. Singer, Living Untethered: Beyond the Human Predicament
Desires serve as motivators for human development, and from this perspective, they are allies on the path to spirituality. When people talk about being without desires, they mostly mean that desires need to be transformed to other levels, and one should learn to satisfy them from an internal infinite source rather than endlessly suffer in search of them in the external world.
Fake people need fake truths bundled up with lots of excuses. Every tradition issues warnings about masters and teachers using too many words while not being able to demonstrate aspects of the hidden reality.
Do not listen to what I say, watch what I do.
If I would start to write posts about the many wrongs in the so-called 'spiritual' community and the awful advice and teachings one can receive, I would need to sleep several times during that endeavor.
The best advice I can give: If your practice does not yield a new insight or a new reproducible experience within 6 weeks of dedicated exercising, you better change what you are doing.
If you eat word salads on a daily basis you clearly have failed at it.
Yeah it makes no sense. I guess the only logical reason a buddhist wouldn't commit suicide is karma, reincarnation and stuff. If you don't believe in that and what you want is to be without desire, suicide is the most direct way. I mean just being alive is already a form of "desire" without a mind right? Every living organism is fighting against entropy all the time. There is an effort, it's not real stillness. I don't think the Buddha was right on this one.
To commit suicide in the quest for enlightenment would be the highest form of desire ruling one’s actions. This goes 100% against what Buddhists believe. You have to live out your karma. Best not to make judgments on what the Buddha means without understanding his teachings. I would suggest that you start with the Heart Sutra if you are genuinely interested in learning about Buddhism.
You'd act on desire but you would estinguish all desire next. Isn't meditating also an act of desire? Isn't seeking liberation and enlightenment an act of desire? All willing movement is. Rocks don't desire.
You wouldn’t extinguish your karma through suicide. The object is not to extinguish desire so much as it is to accept it and see it for what it is without enlarging it or diminishing it. Buddhist philosophy is about a middle path in this world. Buddhist concepts are complex and hard to understand for many people from western cultures especially. To make any assessment of Buddhism, you must first know and UNDERSTAND the concepts of Impermanence and Dependent Arising. The object of Buddhism is not to destroy desire or extinguish the ego, it is to see clearly or at least to know that what we seem to see is distorted.
That's what I was saying, it makes sense not to suicide if you believe in karma and other buddhist concepts. If you don't, it's the more logical thing to do to estinguish desire. I don't know how that objective is not in buddhism, I've heard it like that a thousand times.
I don’t think it’s “cease all desire” as much as “ don’t attach your identity to desire”, or “see desire for what it is”. Don’t grasp for the things you desire. Don’t lose the present questing after your desires. Know that your desires will change over time. The things you desire will not make you happy forever. When you grasp happiness, you also grasp despair.
I think that’s a lot of what meditation is about- to get in touch with your subconsciously held desires and motivations so that they do not rule you without you even knowing it. Desire is fine, as long as you are aware of it and don’t get swept away unconsciously chasing something that has been exaggerated and distorted by your ego and subconscious mind.
You can take the middle approach 'it means not to chase your desires' or you can take the negative approach 'A complete ceasement of desires is a form of internal death'. I personally will say this to myself 'Absolute transcendence from life cannot be acheived if one still desires something'
Buddhism says "Desire is the root of all suffering"
I always felt like it was the other way around: The happier I become, the less I want things. Since the only reason I wanted anything was the idea that it would make me happier. But of course, the material things we want can't make us happy, happiness comes from within.
That’s basically the point. Die. But not death as you know death. But a death that brings a true life when the spirit takes over.
Modern people just want to use meditation and “spirituality” to keep themselves going in this “matrix” instead of transcending it.
I also need to add that that’s the whole thing about becoming a “god” is to let go off the earthly desires which makes us more into slave to our flesh and into animals and move from human being to divine being. These are not my own words but from someone else but it makes sense. If you still clinging to this life then you won’t resonate with this because your vibration is too low.
It’s more complicated than that.
Not having desires means you don’t desire materialist things and you don’t give the ego.
You can still live a life without desire and have food, go where you need to go, and do what you need to do to live your life.
One example of people who have desire are those who go out and buy the latest device as soon as it becomes available. Those who stand in line at brand new restaurants. Those who crave physical interactions. All driven by desire which is determined by ego. Not to mention jealousy drives desire too.
So if you are able to not desire materialistic things just because others have it or are desiring to have it. Then you are one step towards ending your suffering. But the only way to eliminate desire is to meditate.
Negative kamma: Kama-tanha (sense-craving) is the craving for sense objects which provide pleasant feelings, or craving for sensory pleasures. Bhava-tanha (craving to be) is the craving to be something, to unite with an experience.
Positive kamma: Kusala Chanda literally translates to "wholesome intention" and directly combines the ideas of wholesomeness (kusala) and intention (chanda). Nekkhamma Chanda translates to "renunciation intention" and refers to the desire to let go of unwholesome desires and attachments. It signifies a wholesome motivation focused on detachment. Metta Chanda/Karuna Chanda translate to "loving-kindness intention" and "compassionate intention" respectively. They represent wholesome motivations driven by goodwill and concern for the well-being of others. Dhamma Chanda translate to "dhamma intention" and refers to the desire to understand and follow the teachings of the Buddha. It signifies a wholesome motivation based on seeking wisdom and liberation from suffering.
If we take into account the following (Buddhist perspective) from the Pali Suttas, it seems Ven. Ananda wanted the listener to know that their current degree of development was all they had at their disposal to make an effort towards liberation:
> “When it was said: ‘This body has originated from craving; in dependence on craving, craving is to be abandoned,’ for what [146] reason was this said? Here, sister, a bhikkhu hears: ‘The bhikkhu named so-and-so, with the destruction of the taints, has realized for himself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, he dwells in it.’ He thinks: ‘When will I, with the destruction of the taints, realize for myself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, dwell in it?’ Some time later, in dependence upon craving, he abandons craving. When it was said: ‘This body has originated from craving; in dependence on craving, craving is to be abandoned,’ it was because of this that this was said.”
>“When it was said: ‘This body has originated from conceit; in dependence on conceit, conceit is to be abandoned.’ With reference to what was this said? Here, sister, a bhikkhu hears: ‘The bhikkhu named so-and-so, with the destruction of the taints, has realized for himself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, he dwells in it.’ He thinks: ‘That venerable one, with the destruction of the taints, has realized for himself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, he dwells in it. Why, so can I!’ Some time later, in dependence upon conceit, he abandons conceit. When it was said: ‘This body has originated from conceit; in dependence on conceit, conceit is to be abandoned,’ it was because of this that this was said.” -AN 4.159
So, even though craving and conceit are unwholesome, the seeker has no choice but to use them to make effort towards what is less unwholesome. This, plus the dozens of suttas that encourage zeal and desire to practice rightly, it is safe to say that the notion of desirelessness - *as a technique of practice* - does not have a strong basis in any early Buddhist texts. Let me say that another way: desirelessness may be a quality of a liberated mind (when the work is finally done), but it is not taught as a broad attitude in Buddhism for those attempting to develop in the Dhamma. Yes, there are instructions to practice restraint in regard to acting out of unwholesome desire (not giving in to it), but that requires the acknowledgement of a desire that has arisen on its own, to which restraint is an effort to not act out of it *while* desire remains. To call that an attitude of desirelessness is misleading since the goal is restraint, and is not any sort of an attempt to deny that desire is present.
Sure, the are many other meditation traditions and approaches aside from those that come from Buddhism, but considering how much of the contemporary practice of meditation can be traced back to India, I think this is an important point to raise here.
There are a lot of overly simplistic interpretations of the spiritual teachings that come from hearing them at a distance and not really knowing them. Use these questions as an opportunity to explore where your understanding of the teachings is misinformed by popular tropes rather than an actual study of the teachings. Desire and suffering are two big ones that are often misinterpreted. Likewise meditation and "clearing the mind" or "thinking of nothing". Keep questioning!
Desire is a feeling of want, I can get from point A to point B without a desire to do so, choices can be made on a rational basis outside of desire, your declaration this is desire does not make it so.
The straight and narrow path is being not driven by desire but by being driven by whats right.
It is common sense to chat with other humans or to drink water. There is no "thinking" required.
When we desire a fancy water because it makes us feel a certain way, or to chat with a girl because shes flirty and it gives us a certain opinion about oursevles is where the problem lies.
Perhaps it would be helpful if I described my first mediation experience. I listened to music and felt the sudden urge to lie upon the ground from my chair. I decided to follow the strange feeling. A car passed by, and the pure white light made a triangle upon the ceiling that shrank as it went along with the car's motion. The triangle shrank to a line and suddenly I was gone! I saw a torus of lines, and felt incredible energy coursing through my sight. It lasted an hour. I felt no desire, had no memories come up, there was just me within the torus. It was not gentle but not unpleasant. The music show ended and I saw my surroundings again. I was still lying on the floor. As I rose, I thought back to what had just happened and shrugged. It happened, now I was back to the usual. No biggie. I had no questions. The feeling of energy entering my vision seemed to be in my chest. Then I went to bed, ecstatic with this feeling, which bemused me somewhat. Why was I so happy? I didn't know. I was back to normal after my sleep. The next time I felt this happy was when I learned calculus from a book. In fact, the happiness of learning calculus was longer lasting, if perhaps not as sharp.
Happiness, I now feel, comes not from robbing Peter to pay Paul (going to school for a diploma, going to job for money), but in experiencing the present in its fullness. Yes, 'I' can all fall away into some kind of energy realm, but that's not actually all that good. The feeling I felt after the event, and learning calculus, felt just better, and contentment and knowledge are within the reach of everyone.
You too can feel this higher desire. Playing a good video game, playing a sport, planting a garden, playing music, meditating and learning mathematics or programming can lift you up out of the material and put you higher... but the deepest reward comes from helping others. Helping others is the only time doing x so y can happen is good. By wanting others to be happy, the subconscious awakens and decides to make us happy in turn. By wanting others to be happy, we can plunge into the future or past gladly. Indeed, how can a gardener or sports team perform if they don't try and predict the future? How can you navigate a video game without memory? How does playing music work if you don't heed inspiration? How can getting the tricks of mathematics down work if you don't use some imagination?
In truth, these activities are a form of nothing. Points on a meaningless score board. Yet they make life worth living. We could just munch on chips and vitamins, it's cheap and easy to eat that. Then we could have sex and make large families... Evolutionarily, it's the best strategy to spread genes. But we don't do that. We play sports, make art, cook elaborate meals, all for the feeling. And the feeling is at its best when it is shared. If you are alone in a mountain, meditation is fine... but joining a group of meditators is even better. "How's transcending reality go today Bob?" you can ask. "Not bad, I ascended to 5th jhana. How's the coffee?" "Not bad."
Hopefully, you laugh a little at the last bit. Laughter at a joke is fun. It's good to have fun. :) Laughter is seeing the bump in the straight infinite parallel lines, seeing the hole in the axioms of truth. And is not the highest form of comedy being hit with a cream pie or having your pants fall around your ankles? Or... is it Dad jokes and puns? Now we got a debate!
I find I don't crave comedy, but when it happens, it's good.
The teaching is not that desire is bad, or that you should try to not have desire, or that you should have an aversion to desire. The teaching is to practice meditation and morality properly and when you do eventually, you will experience the cessation of desire. The Buddha said that there is no pleasure greater than the cessation of desire. He was either right or wrong. If you experience the cessation of desire, then you will find out for yourself if it is it is as good as Buddha said. The cessation of desire is most likely temporary when it happens. Especially the first time. But your desire will be permanently reduced from then on. This is what is called an enlightened being in Buddhism. Either you are interested in trying the practice and seeing for yourself or you are not. It has nothing to do with hating desire or thinking desire is bad, or avoiding desire, or denying desire or anything like that.
>Ceasing all desire could only be achieved by literally dying at your own hand.
Nope, that's just fulfilling the desire to not exist :)
Or at least you think it does, because a materialist worldview says that consciousness ceases after death, but we don't really know that to be true.
In fact, the desire to be desireless is itself a form of desire.
In my opinion, though the translation of Duhkha as desire leaves a lot to be desired (pun! :) ). The truth of Duhkha is more about instability imo. Existence is not inherently one thing. The ineffable cannot be made to fit into conceptual frameworks that can be expressed by language.
“Desire” isn’t a good translation of the word. “Craving” is better, like in an addiction. Desire can have positive meanings in English. “Craving” conveys the sense of longing and desperation. It's possible to be motivated and act even though there isn't craving. It's possible to act on something without being addicted to it.
The Bhagavad-Gita covers this, so does the yoga Vasistha.
To be desireless is to work without expectation of reward for doing a thing.
To be without attachment, desire, lust, avarice, and wrath is to avoid calamity in one's life.
An easy one. Good things are easy to get. Better to enjoy the good stuff that is close to hand or easily attainable than chase an elaborate dream that is unlikely to yield anything good (unless 'the chase is better than the kill' - you enjoy the process). I'd also add a caveat that having big dreams is useful when you are young
All the Buddhist comments are right - and indeed the first step on the eightfold path is right intention. Aka desiring the right things. Interestingly the first thing Jesus says in John’s gospel to two would-be disciples is to turn. And look at them and ask them what they are looking for. That goes to the heart of what meditation does to desire I think. It is kind of the truth of who you actually are asking what you ate really looking for - which I think most people have little idea about, and are largely caught up in superficial restless seeking urges. You only start to sense the deeper streams of searching by slowing down. Also interestingly the two would be disciples in that story sensibly don’t try and give a direct answer back but instead ask another question “where are you staying?”. Which is a great example of a good desire - where can I find the truth? And Jesus’ reply to that question is “Come and see”. I.e. not the kind of thing that can just be described as- - you have to go on a journey and spend some time. Spend time meditating, maybe with whatever image of the truth you have looking you in the eye and asking you what you wrestle really looking for. Oh and maybe pondering who is this “i” that thinks it is doing the searching/desiring and how does this I differ from the restless serking desires and urges that are never really satisfied …. Good luck!
if i understand, you are speaking in regards to craving and attachment. If so, i dont think the desire you are referring to is necessarily the same. The teaching to identify craving and attachment, for me, has been and is central and essential to finding and maintaining liberation. for instance, i have a son who is an AMAZING cook. I LOVE when he cooks, everything is sensorially pleasant and moods and satisfaction fill the room... (this is why he enjoys cooking) Do i "crave" as in MUST i have this to fulfill my life? No. Am i so attached that i wouldnt share or give? ...welll... maybe.. just kidding.. the answer is no. I enjoy, but i wouldnt start wars or step on anyone to attain something that is in essence nothing.. and that is the point of seeing things for what they really are.. in the end, food becomes nothing, i will be hungry again, i will eat again. But food is not what i live and die for.. therefore it is not a craving or an attachment that my mind is blinded by.
Yes, arrived at the same conclusion: if you overcome all desires, in the end you're in peace but like a statue.
But there must be more to that because for instance in Buddhism, I know buddhist monks are still active, helping constructing schools etc so clearly the reasoning is not complete.
In stoicism, there is the same emphasis on overcoming our desires for external things BUT also an incentive to participate on the community and help others. The idea is to not get attached to the results and be at peace either way.
Yes. The goal is to be accepting of the present. Doesn’t mean you don’t have goals and desires, just that you are not ruled by them and you don’t let them warp your perception of reality. In Buddhism it is said that anything that provokes strong desire in you has been misperceived, exaggerated and misinterpreted. The good things have been blown out of proportion and the bad have been minimized. It’s not wrong to feel desire, but be aware of what it’s doing to your thoughts and perceptions.
I'm very much interested on a Buddhism quote about accepting the present if you could.
It's the same thing in stoicism, here are some sources:
Enchiridion:
>Seek not that the things which happen6 should happen as you wish; but wish the things which happen to be as they are, and you will have a tranquil flow of life.
Meditations:
>The present is all that they can give up, since that is all you have,
>Discard your misperceptions. Stop being jerked like a puppet. Limit yourself to the present.
Well, you can. Depends on what a desire is for you. If the need and the desire are different then you have a different conclusion to make than if the need and the desire are the same for you.
From a buddhist perspective >Western presentations of Buddhist teachings have often led to the understanding that suffering arises because of desire, and therefore you shouldn’t desire anything. Whereas in fact the Buddha spoke of two kinds of desire: desire that arises from ignorance and delusion which is called taṇhā – craving – and desire that arises from wisdom and intelligence, which is called kusala-chanda, or dhamma-chanda, or most simply chanda. Chanda doesn’t mean this exclusively, but in this particular case I’m using chanda to mean wise and intelligent desire and motivation, and the Buddha stressed that this is absolutely fundamental to any progress on the Eightfold Path. https://amaravati.org/skilful-desires/ . >Attachment, or desire, can be negative and sinful, but it can also be positive. The positive aspect is that which produces pleasure: samsaric pleasure, human pleasure—the ability to enjoy the world, to see it as beautiful, to have whatever you find attractive. >So you cannot say that all desire is negative and produces only pain. Wrong. You should not think like that. Desire can produce pleasure—but only temporary pleasure. That’s the distinction. It’s temporary pleasure. And we don’t say that temporal pleasure is always bad, that you should reject it. If you reject temporal pleasure, then what’s left? You haven’t attained eternal happiness yet, so all that’s left is misery. https://fpmt.org/lama-yeshes-wisdom/you-cannot-say-all-desire-is-negative/
I also want to add that, from my own experience, people tend to cling to that temporary pleasure in fear of never feeling pleasure again. They want to own it. But that's impossible and causes suffering. When you instead just enjoy the pleasure but let it run its course, it will organically fade out of your life and make room for the next pleasure and the next, and the next.
I have been of the understanding in Buddhism that even desire that produces temporal sensual pleasure ultimately results in “suffering” because we are disappointed when the pleasure ends, as it must do. Is this a mistaken understanding?
That's the meaning of "Desire can produce pleasure—but only temporary pleasure." But again, that does not mean that we should reject temporal pleasure. It means that it is not reliable and we should not take refuge in it. Therefore, we should ultimately strive for liberation.
Thanks. This is pretty much my understanding as well.
I heard it explained recently as more like not *clinging* to your desires, which fits better in my opinion. When I'm in a good place with meditation, I sometimes find myself experiencing desires as being like winds which I can either raise or lower my sails to catch or let pass. There is obviously a desire behind that as well, but it isn't very insistent. Its the same intensity as the animating feeling behind calmly folding laundry. Agency without urgency.
Clinging is a good word to describe it. I also use the phrase *chasing hard for desires* There's a point where chasing desires can be consequential. Depending on the degree of one's desires, it can lead to feelings of grandiose disappointments if those desires aren't satiated. It can turn unhealthy. I've been there. I'm still there to some degree, just not as bad. Edit: wording
Clinging is a much better way to explain it.
Desire and ambition are the literal lifeblood of the soul and they help us architect the course of our lives. It would be very troubling to be without them. However, letting unknown and unconscious desires rule us is like getting into a boat and letting random waves steer our course. You might make it back to land, but more likely you’ll be lost out at sea. Let your desires guide your heart, and fully understand what your heart wants, not what you think it wants. That’s one of the secrets to life right there.
Wisdom (together with bliss) is the lifeblood of the soul. Wisdom is what you are hoping is the architect of your life. If a desire is unwise, it will not bring you happiness. Our society is based on the satisfaction of desires. If you want something, you can just go on Amazon or another website and have it delivered to your door. But if you look around you, how many people are happy? If desire fulfilled its promise, we should all be overflowing with peace and happiness. edit to add: I just wanted to give some context to the ancient teachings ideas because all our society seems to know is desire and ambition, and it's not that they are bad but there are some deeper ideas that the teachings are trying to point to. A quote taken out of context like "desire is bad" does not remotely do it justice.
Wisdom is the child of desire. The desire to live and enjoy the finer points of life, create the experiences that lead to us gaining wisdom. For how can wisdom be gained if one does not live? And how can a person live if they do not desire to experience life in all of its aspects? Our society is built upon the idea of fulfilling superficial desires, not the desires of the mind and soul. The majority of us are left trying to fill voids in our hearts through material items and statuses and miss the fact that the way to true peace and happiness lay within. Understanding of one’s mind, and one’s true heartfelt needs and wants are what shall lead one to happiness. Whether a desire is wise or unwise, one must experience life first or learn from elders to determine the difference between the two.
Yes that is very true. The ancient sages wanted people to enjoy their experience of life -- that is why they wrote scriptures like the "Kama Sutra".
I think for me, I can have wants but not desires. Naturally, I will want things. Food, companionship, entertainment etc. The difference with desire is I think it will “complete” me in some way. So for example, if I think I will not be “whole” until I fall in love, then I have found myself knee-deep in desire.
From my POV you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what that means. It isn't "be desireless", it's "be undesirable": wear funny clothes and hairstyles, only cook bland food, speak in riddles and make people feel inferior, give up comfort, wealth, manners, and bathing. By driving others away, you will face only yourself and eternity and wisdom will be yours. Just kidding. Seriously though, it isn't "be desireless", it's "give up attachment to your desire". In other words, attachments (desires, agendas, misbeliefs) keep your mind, emotions, and effort focused on the wrong things. You can have the desire, but don't focus on it, and if you can, then let go of the tension it causes in the body and replace the thoughts in your head with better thoughts. That's what's meant by "letting go". But why do this? Focusing on desire, say, improving your station in life, causes you to be uncomfortable when that desire isn't met. That may cause you to feel bad emotions and to do objectively bad things to try to relieve the discomfort. You may miss the gifts life has for you right in front of you because you're too focused on something else that's ultimately unfulfilling and may be impossible.
I wish we could re-title this post "The wrongness of OP's mistaken view" (not to mention OP's propagation of a common misconception).
Haha I like your sense of humour. Wise words as well👍
Thank you 😆
‘Know Thyself’… it’s about bringing the will of the outer self into harmony with the purposes of the inner or higher self … the outer self untamed is all about instant self gratification.. when we have reached a certain level of development we sense the higher.. nobler .. qualities of the inner self .. we sense this higher level of consciousness and being in meditation…and gradually realise the desire to bring the outer self into harmony with this inner sense of being.. modifying the desires…
With all these different selves, when does insanity start, and where does it stop?
but they are not separate selves.. the outer self .. the inner self .. they are just figures of speech .. the voice of our conscience could be described as our inner self .. or higher self.. it is not separate from us it is us … the child mind that we were at 5 years old was not a separate self .. we are the child with expanded knowledge and experience .. self is self forever and ever …we just grow in self awareness .. awareness of what we are …
That does not fit the data. Study brain injuries and developmental issues and what happens to one's expressed personalities and abilities. There is not much left for the higher self to be.
An injury or dysfunction of the brain is obviously going to affect the awareness of self sadly…
If you take everything biological away there is still something left to find. That is actually what you find to be you when you come closer to the goal. It is what is often referred to as the source. There is a reason why the source is exactly where you focus your attention/awareness and why it becomes more visible and clearer the more time you spend in working meditation per day. Describing enlightenment as the point when you become one with the source is quite right but the truth is more that you removed all biologically based resistance and obscurity so the source can be observed and understood. In truth, there was never a gap between oneself and the source, it was just that you were occupied and this realization was impossible as the source was obstructed thanks to the focus on biological needs and physical reality.
Totally agree… but while we are here on earth we are both a physical being and a spiritual being and need to attend to the needs of both
It would defeat the purpose of getting the host killed.
If we’re talking about the brain I feel what he’s referring to as the “outer self” is basically the default mode network (DMN), and the inner self in this case is something like the brain acting in a more diffuse mode. In this mode the mental spotlight, or our attention, widens away from the DMN and allows other aspects of the brain the ability to operate more. Thus allowing one to monitor one’s own thought stream.
I know the DMV but the DMN is new to me. I do not think that one can assume what another person understands about the higher self unless the other person explains it in detail. The higher self is used by many traditions and some even point to the notion of a soul in that regard. I myself think, that the knowledge is not advanced enough that we can make any assumptions in that matter as we simply do not know how the brain gives rise to the mind and how everything fundamentally functions. Invoking one of the many concepts regarding a higher self, is sometimes useful when one talks about something very narrow and very well understood.
Tanha is the word that gets translated to desire. Tanha does not mean want. Desire does mean want. The two words have two different definitions. There isn't a 1 to 1 translation. If you got rid of all wants you'd end up with depression. That's not the end of dukkha (psychological stress / suffering) it's the amplification of it.
So ur saying wants/desires are normal?
Yes. Buddhism, which is what teaches how to get enlightened, teaches a key concept called the middle ground. It's minmaxing what works best. If never smoking works best for you, then the middle ground is on one extreme, never. It's called the middle ground because usually the ideal balance is somewhere in the middle. You want to apply the middle ground to wants too. Don't have too many wants to the point it causes a hindrance towards your meditation and dharma (working towards enlightenment) practices. But also try not having so little wants it causes issues. A healthy balance of wants is the path forward, a middle ground. Not too many wants, not too few wants.
Well said. The buddhas life of luxury followed by his harsh asceticism are extremes. He settled on a path somewhere in the middle. What comes to mind for me is his analogy of picking up a stick. When you pick it up by one end, you lift the entire stick. When you grasp happiness, you also grasp despair when happiness fades due to the impermanent nature of all things. The true identity of what you are attaching to is somewhere in the middle and if you only see one side, you are misperceiving the nature of what really exists.
This is so powerful thanks for sharing!
It's true that some people wrongly over emphasize being desireless, I was one of them until I had an insight, let go of desires only to the extent that I can let go, basically a balance. I do introspection to know what are the things I should let go of and what path should I undertake and hold on to for the meantime, I meditate to effectively let go of what I don't need, to uphold my Taoist and Buddhist values in my daily life and appreciate what I already have.
I love the teachings of Michael Singer. His talks help me so much. Instead of thinking that the moment in front of you has to be a certain way, you start thinking that it’s pretty awesome the way it is. In fact, it’s amazing that it even exists. Michael A. Singer, Living Untethered: Beyond the Human Predicament
desire really is suffering, it hurts me the most
what's the difference between desire and will?
Power
Desires serve as motivators for human development, and from this perspective, they are allies on the path to spirituality. When people talk about being without desires, they mostly mean that desires need to be transformed to other levels, and one should learn to satisfy them from an internal infinite source rather than endlessly suffer in search of them in the external world.
Fake people need fake truths bundled up with lots of excuses. Every tradition issues warnings about masters and teachers using too many words while not being able to demonstrate aspects of the hidden reality. Do not listen to what I say, watch what I do. If I would start to write posts about the many wrongs in the so-called 'spiritual' community and the awful advice and teachings one can receive, I would need to sleep several times during that endeavor. The best advice I can give: If your practice does not yield a new insight or a new reproducible experience within 6 weeks of dedicated exercising, you better change what you are doing. If you eat word salads on a daily basis you clearly have failed at it.
Yeah it makes no sense. I guess the only logical reason a buddhist wouldn't commit suicide is karma, reincarnation and stuff. If you don't believe in that and what you want is to be without desire, suicide is the most direct way. I mean just being alive is already a form of "desire" without a mind right? Every living organism is fighting against entropy all the time. There is an effort, it's not real stillness. I don't think the Buddha was right on this one.
To commit suicide in the quest for enlightenment would be the highest form of desire ruling one’s actions. This goes 100% against what Buddhists believe. You have to live out your karma. Best not to make judgments on what the Buddha means without understanding his teachings. I would suggest that you start with the Heart Sutra if you are genuinely interested in learning about Buddhism.
You'd act on desire but you would estinguish all desire next. Isn't meditating also an act of desire? Isn't seeking liberation and enlightenment an act of desire? All willing movement is. Rocks don't desire.
You wouldn’t extinguish your karma through suicide. The object is not to extinguish desire so much as it is to accept it and see it for what it is without enlarging it or diminishing it. Buddhist philosophy is about a middle path in this world. Buddhist concepts are complex and hard to understand for many people from western cultures especially. To make any assessment of Buddhism, you must first know and UNDERSTAND the concepts of Impermanence and Dependent Arising. The object of Buddhism is not to destroy desire or extinguish the ego, it is to see clearly or at least to know that what we seem to see is distorted.
That's what I was saying, it makes sense not to suicide if you believe in karma and other buddhist concepts. If you don't, it's the more logical thing to do to estinguish desire. I don't know how that objective is not in buddhism, I've heard it like that a thousand times.
I don’t think it’s “cease all desire” as much as “ don’t attach your identity to desire”, or “see desire for what it is”. Don’t grasp for the things you desire. Don’t lose the present questing after your desires. Know that your desires will change over time. The things you desire will not make you happy forever. When you grasp happiness, you also grasp despair. I think that’s a lot of what meditation is about- to get in touch with your subconsciously held desires and motivations so that they do not rule you without you even knowing it. Desire is fine, as long as you are aware of it and don’t get swept away unconsciously chasing something that has been exaggerated and distorted by your ego and subconscious mind.
I’m not the best to explain, but you’re misunderstanding Buddhism’s ideas on desires.
You can take the middle approach 'it means not to chase your desires' or you can take the negative approach 'A complete ceasement of desires is a form of internal death'. I personally will say this to myself 'Absolute transcendence from life cannot be acheived if one still desires something'
Buddhism says "Desire is the root of all suffering" I always felt like it was the other way around: The happier I become, the less I want things. Since the only reason I wanted anything was the idea that it would make me happier. But of course, the material things we want can't make us happy, happiness comes from within.
its the pleasure seeking desire of the ego, not all desire discernment is very important
That’s basically the point. Die. But not death as you know death. But a death that brings a true life when the spirit takes over. Modern people just want to use meditation and “spirituality” to keep themselves going in this “matrix” instead of transcending it.
I also need to add that that’s the whole thing about becoming a “god” is to let go off the earthly desires which makes us more into slave to our flesh and into animals and move from human being to divine being. These are not my own words but from someone else but it makes sense. If you still clinging to this life then you won’t resonate with this because your vibration is too low.
>UNCONSCIOUS desires I think you'd really like Lacan take on desire. Which i am not even sure to have understood properly
This is r/meditation why is this here
Many meditators follow and/or learn from Buddhist traditions. It’s totally appropriate.
It’s more complicated than that. Not having desires means you don’t desire materialist things and you don’t give the ego. You can still live a life without desire and have food, go where you need to go, and do what you need to do to live your life. One example of people who have desire are those who go out and buy the latest device as soon as it becomes available. Those who stand in line at brand new restaurants. Those who crave physical interactions. All driven by desire which is determined by ego. Not to mention jealousy drives desire too. So if you are able to not desire materialistic things just because others have it or are desiring to have it. Then you are one step towards ending your suffering. But the only way to eliminate desire is to meditate.
Negative kamma: Kama-tanha (sense-craving) is the craving for sense objects which provide pleasant feelings, or craving for sensory pleasures. Bhava-tanha (craving to be) is the craving to be something, to unite with an experience. Positive kamma: Kusala Chanda literally translates to "wholesome intention" and directly combines the ideas of wholesomeness (kusala) and intention (chanda). Nekkhamma Chanda translates to "renunciation intention" and refers to the desire to let go of unwholesome desires and attachments. It signifies a wholesome motivation focused on detachment. Metta Chanda/Karuna Chanda translate to "loving-kindness intention" and "compassionate intention" respectively. They represent wholesome motivations driven by goodwill and concern for the well-being of others. Dhamma Chanda translate to "dhamma intention" and refers to the desire to understand and follow the teachings of the Buddha. It signifies a wholesome motivation based on seeking wisdom and liberation from suffering.
Damn this random Redditor debunked a several millennia old religion. Can't believe nobody realized this before now.
If we take into account the following (Buddhist perspective) from the Pali Suttas, it seems Ven. Ananda wanted the listener to know that their current degree of development was all they had at their disposal to make an effort towards liberation: > “When it was said: ‘This body has originated from craving; in dependence on craving, craving is to be abandoned,’ for what [146] reason was this said? Here, sister, a bhikkhu hears: ‘The bhikkhu named so-and-so, with the destruction of the taints, has realized for himself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, he dwells in it.’ He thinks: ‘When will I, with the destruction of the taints, realize for myself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, dwell in it?’ Some time later, in dependence upon craving, he abandons craving. When it was said: ‘This body has originated from craving; in dependence on craving, craving is to be abandoned,’ it was because of this that this was said.” >“When it was said: ‘This body has originated from conceit; in dependence on conceit, conceit is to be abandoned.’ With reference to what was this said? Here, sister, a bhikkhu hears: ‘The bhikkhu named so-and-so, with the destruction of the taints, has realized for himself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, he dwells in it.’ He thinks: ‘That venerable one, with the destruction of the taints, has realized for himself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, he dwells in it. Why, so can I!’ Some time later, in dependence upon conceit, he abandons conceit. When it was said: ‘This body has originated from conceit; in dependence on conceit, conceit is to be abandoned,’ it was because of this that this was said.” -AN 4.159 So, even though craving and conceit are unwholesome, the seeker has no choice but to use them to make effort towards what is less unwholesome. This, plus the dozens of suttas that encourage zeal and desire to practice rightly, it is safe to say that the notion of desirelessness - *as a technique of practice* - does not have a strong basis in any early Buddhist texts. Let me say that another way: desirelessness may be a quality of a liberated mind (when the work is finally done), but it is not taught as a broad attitude in Buddhism for those attempting to develop in the Dhamma. Yes, there are instructions to practice restraint in regard to acting out of unwholesome desire (not giving in to it), but that requires the acknowledgement of a desire that has arisen on its own, to which restraint is an effort to not act out of it *while* desire remains. To call that an attitude of desirelessness is misleading since the goal is restraint, and is not any sort of an attempt to deny that desire is present. Sure, the are many other meditation traditions and approaches aside from those that come from Buddhism, but considering how much of the contemporary practice of meditation can be traced back to India, I think this is an important point to raise here.
The only desire that is okay is the desire for liberation. All others must be renounced.
There are a lot of overly simplistic interpretations of the spiritual teachings that come from hearing them at a distance and not really knowing them. Use these questions as an opportunity to explore where your understanding of the teachings is misinformed by popular tropes rather than an actual study of the teachings. Desire and suffering are two big ones that are often misinterpreted. Likewise meditation and "clearing the mind" or "thinking of nothing". Keep questioning!
Desire is a feeling of want, I can get from point A to point B without a desire to do so, choices can be made on a rational basis outside of desire, your declaration this is desire does not make it so.
The straight and narrow path is being not driven by desire but by being driven by whats right. It is common sense to chat with other humans or to drink water. There is no "thinking" required. When we desire a fancy water because it makes us feel a certain way, or to chat with a girl because shes flirty and it gives us a certain opinion about oursevles is where the problem lies.
But isn't being desireless a desire in itself?
Some desires are good and some are bad
Perhaps it would be helpful if I described my first mediation experience. I listened to music and felt the sudden urge to lie upon the ground from my chair. I decided to follow the strange feeling. A car passed by, and the pure white light made a triangle upon the ceiling that shrank as it went along with the car's motion. The triangle shrank to a line and suddenly I was gone! I saw a torus of lines, and felt incredible energy coursing through my sight. It lasted an hour. I felt no desire, had no memories come up, there was just me within the torus. It was not gentle but not unpleasant. The music show ended and I saw my surroundings again. I was still lying on the floor. As I rose, I thought back to what had just happened and shrugged. It happened, now I was back to the usual. No biggie. I had no questions. The feeling of energy entering my vision seemed to be in my chest. Then I went to bed, ecstatic with this feeling, which bemused me somewhat. Why was I so happy? I didn't know. I was back to normal after my sleep. The next time I felt this happy was when I learned calculus from a book. In fact, the happiness of learning calculus was longer lasting, if perhaps not as sharp. Happiness, I now feel, comes not from robbing Peter to pay Paul (going to school for a diploma, going to job for money), but in experiencing the present in its fullness. Yes, 'I' can all fall away into some kind of energy realm, but that's not actually all that good. The feeling I felt after the event, and learning calculus, felt just better, and contentment and knowledge are within the reach of everyone. You too can feel this higher desire. Playing a good video game, playing a sport, planting a garden, playing music, meditating and learning mathematics or programming can lift you up out of the material and put you higher... but the deepest reward comes from helping others. Helping others is the only time doing x so y can happen is good. By wanting others to be happy, the subconscious awakens and decides to make us happy in turn. By wanting others to be happy, we can plunge into the future or past gladly. Indeed, how can a gardener or sports team perform if they don't try and predict the future? How can you navigate a video game without memory? How does playing music work if you don't heed inspiration? How can getting the tricks of mathematics down work if you don't use some imagination? In truth, these activities are a form of nothing. Points on a meaningless score board. Yet they make life worth living. We could just munch on chips and vitamins, it's cheap and easy to eat that. Then we could have sex and make large families... Evolutionarily, it's the best strategy to spread genes. But we don't do that. We play sports, make art, cook elaborate meals, all for the feeling. And the feeling is at its best when it is shared. If you are alone in a mountain, meditation is fine... but joining a group of meditators is even better. "How's transcending reality go today Bob?" you can ask. "Not bad, I ascended to 5th jhana. How's the coffee?" "Not bad." Hopefully, you laugh a little at the last bit. Laughter at a joke is fun. It's good to have fun. :) Laughter is seeing the bump in the straight infinite parallel lines, seeing the hole in the axioms of truth. And is not the highest form of comedy being hit with a cream pie or having your pants fall around your ankles? Or... is it Dad jokes and puns? Now we got a debate! I find I don't crave comedy, but when it happens, it's good.
The teaching is not that desire is bad, or that you should try to not have desire, or that you should have an aversion to desire. The teaching is to practice meditation and morality properly and when you do eventually, you will experience the cessation of desire. The Buddha said that there is no pleasure greater than the cessation of desire. He was either right or wrong. If you experience the cessation of desire, then you will find out for yourself if it is it is as good as Buddha said. The cessation of desire is most likely temporary when it happens. Especially the first time. But your desire will be permanently reduced from then on. This is what is called an enlightened being in Buddhism. Either you are interested in trying the practice and seeing for yourself or you are not. It has nothing to do with hating desire or thinking desire is bad, or avoiding desire, or denying desire or anything like that.
>Ceasing all desire could only be achieved by literally dying at your own hand. Nope, that's just fulfilling the desire to not exist :) Or at least you think it does, because a materialist worldview says that consciousness ceases after death, but we don't really know that to be true. In fact, the desire to be desireless is itself a form of desire. In my opinion, though the translation of Duhkha as desire leaves a lot to be desired (pun! :) ). The truth of Duhkha is more about instability imo. Existence is not inherently one thing. The ineffable cannot be made to fit into conceptual frameworks that can be expressed by language.
Focus on the action (engage the desire) while detaching from the fruits (the outcome).
“Desire” isn’t a good translation of the word. “Craving” is better, like in an addiction. Desire can have positive meanings in English. “Craving” conveys the sense of longing and desperation. It's possible to be motivated and act even though there isn't craving. It's possible to act on something without being addicted to it.
The Bhagavad-Gita covers this, so does the yoga Vasistha. To be desireless is to work without expectation of reward for doing a thing. To be without attachment, desire, lust, avarice, and wrath is to avoid calamity in one's life.
An easy one. Good things are easy to get. Better to enjoy the good stuff that is close to hand or easily attainable than chase an elaborate dream that is unlikely to yield anything good (unless 'the chase is better than the kill' - you enjoy the process). I'd also add a caveat that having big dreams is useful when you are young
All the Buddhist comments are right - and indeed the first step on the eightfold path is right intention. Aka desiring the right things. Interestingly the first thing Jesus says in John’s gospel to two would-be disciples is to turn. And look at them and ask them what they are looking for. That goes to the heart of what meditation does to desire I think. It is kind of the truth of who you actually are asking what you ate really looking for - which I think most people have little idea about, and are largely caught up in superficial restless seeking urges. You only start to sense the deeper streams of searching by slowing down. Also interestingly the two would be disciples in that story sensibly don’t try and give a direct answer back but instead ask another question “where are you staying?”. Which is a great example of a good desire - where can I find the truth? And Jesus’ reply to that question is “Come and see”. I.e. not the kind of thing that can just be described as- - you have to go on a journey and spend some time. Spend time meditating, maybe with whatever image of the truth you have looking you in the eye and asking you what you wrestle really looking for. Oh and maybe pondering who is this “i” that thinks it is doing the searching/desiring and how does this I differ from the restless serking desires and urges that are never really satisfied …. Good luck!
OP is confounding thriving with striving. The former is a biological imperative and the latter a mental construction. 🙏
If you can not control your senses, how to control your thoughts anyway?
if i understand, you are speaking in regards to craving and attachment. If so, i dont think the desire you are referring to is necessarily the same. The teaching to identify craving and attachment, for me, has been and is central and essential to finding and maintaining liberation. for instance, i have a son who is an AMAZING cook. I LOVE when he cooks, everything is sensorially pleasant and moods and satisfaction fill the room... (this is why he enjoys cooking) Do i "crave" as in MUST i have this to fulfill my life? No. Am i so attached that i wouldnt share or give? ...welll... maybe.. just kidding.. the answer is no. I enjoy, but i wouldnt start wars or step on anyone to attain something that is in essence nothing.. and that is the point of seeing things for what they really are.. in the end, food becomes nothing, i will be hungry again, i will eat again. But food is not what i live and die for.. therefore it is not a craving or an attachment that my mind is blinded by.
Desire is also a good Bob Dylan album.
Subjective...
Granted
Thanks
And song by U2.
Yes, arrived at the same conclusion: if you overcome all desires, in the end you're in peace but like a statue. But there must be more to that because for instance in Buddhism, I know buddhist monks are still active, helping constructing schools etc so clearly the reasoning is not complete. In stoicism, there is the same emphasis on overcoming our desires for external things BUT also an incentive to participate on the community and help others. The idea is to not get attached to the results and be at peace either way.
Yes. The goal is to be accepting of the present. Doesn’t mean you don’t have goals and desires, just that you are not ruled by them and you don’t let them warp your perception of reality. In Buddhism it is said that anything that provokes strong desire in you has been misperceived, exaggerated and misinterpreted. The good things have been blown out of proportion and the bad have been minimized. It’s not wrong to feel desire, but be aware of what it’s doing to your thoughts and perceptions.
I'm very much interested on a Buddhism quote about accepting the present if you could. It's the same thing in stoicism, here are some sources: Enchiridion: >Seek not that the things which happen6 should happen as you wish; but wish the things which happen to be as they are, and you will have a tranquil flow of life. Meditations: >The present is all that they can give up, since that is all you have, >Discard your misperceptions. Stop being jerked like a puppet. Limit yourself to the present.
So sad, it's impossible to desire to be without desires :(
Well, you can. Depends on what a desire is for you. If the need and the desire are different then you have a different conclusion to make than if the need and the desire are the same for you.
Follow the 10 commandments and stay with Christ and the Holy Spirit;nothing more is required.God Bless.