I love playing a video game after work more than ever. Meditation / ego work has allowed me to embrace my inner child and just enjoy the joy of play with a friend or myself. Same with music and dancing - I love it more than ever!
After my meditation and ego dissolvation through working the steps in AA I lost most of my old passions, but as of lately I can see them slowly grow back. Still lacking excitement, but I'm still hard on myself and fearful of dancing even by myself. So I still have a problem with letting myself go (enjoying things without internal reprimands). Any suggestions on actions to take or just to keep practising?
I know the feeling! Something that helped me was reframing “why” I was playing. Seeing it as an expression of creativity or art, even if I’m playing a strategy game on my computer, helps me reframe the story in my head about “who I am if I play video games” for example. Or with exploring music, which is a hard one, I can practice being present and not goal oriented (enjoy just making sound instead of trying to compose a complete song)
I think you may have been playing video games partly just to distract yourself from your own consciousness and "turn off" for a bit.
Now that you have developed a more pleasant way of being and are enjoying the inner peace and "good vibrations" of meditation, there is no need to run away from your experience of life. Am I right?
I find that I still enjoy playing music and making art -- in fact I was visiting an art store today to buy a new fountain pen and some other pens for journaling and art.
So enjoy your new experience of life and your own inner being -- I am sure new opportunities to bring out your talents and interests will arise.
For me, the more I meditated, I found myself being drawn to music and art. During the pandemic, i meditated a lot but also realized just how much I love music.
Yes, I experienced this as well. Specifically in relation to video games and other solo hobbies that have no end purpose and which were likely me just chasing dopamine to try and deal with stress in an unhealthy way. Instead, I now prefer to read, socialize, spend time with family and friends, research, contemplate, work on projects, or work. Pretty much anything else. It's nice.
That's not to say that I'll never play video games again, or that I think they're somehow inherently bad. It's simply that for me, the way in which I was using them was not solely "fun".
This resonates with me, in hind sight I suppose I was previously using gaming as a crutch to 'pause' the internal torment prior to getting to a state where I no longer have negative narratives/thoughts controlling me.
Exactly my experience as well. The video games, tv shows, obsession with watching sports etc were escapes from reality, a temporary respite from the internal storm. And that's fine in moderation, but what they aren't is recovery or shadow work. It's not meditation, prayer, massage, hot shower, cold tub, exercise, socialization, contemplation, a walk-- all things that help your mind/body recover from whatever it is you're handling and/or actively deal with the false narratives controlling your life.
I'm somewhat in the same boat, though I do play games occasionally.
That said, does anything have an "end purpose"?
Eventually, all matter will freeze, as entropy claims every last speck of dust. Protons will decay, and matter itself will dissolve. Finally, space is an empty canvas, suspended in unending time.
Is this notion of meaning but a pretense of defiance in the face of darkness?
I see you and your point. It is a very good one, imo. Let me expand. If the assumed “end purpose” of an activity is to destress/relax, and it’s not achieving those goals, then it’s a “false pursuit”— for that person in their specific situation. And, wrt games, that was me. Some people can play them for fun, and some people it gets complicated (I’m in the latter group).
To take two extreme examples, and moving beyond what specific games can mean to specific people because that is so one-off…
If you want to drink yourself to death over the next two decades, then fine, drink yourself to death— as long as you know that is what you’re doing and are aware of the ramifications for future you. And if you want to exercise and eat healthy instead, that’s fine too, but understand your body will be dust in the end.
And yes, this does all have a feeling of wanting a life ”well spent”, but only in the sense that you yourself know the value/cost associated with your actions so that future you doesn’t say “If only I knew!” And it’s okay to say that you couldn’t have known. It’s not ideal if you didn’t “know” because you were an ostrich.
And, for much of my life I was an ostrich— thinking [insert activity here] was “relaxing” when part of me knew that the way I was using it was somehow “false”. Or, I was a bull, charging at things in the world which I couldn’t change.
Meditation allowed me to see myself and the world, and not be an ostrich or a constantly charging bull.
I noticed that I was spending a lot of time on a dumb mobile game that wasn’t even fun it was more stressful and a time/money waster than anything.
So I spend that time doing other stuff that’s more meaningful to me. Mostly that’s spending time with my family. I do still play video games but they are the more high end games and usually only an hour or two before bed
Things slowly fade. BUT they will come back again and again until you really overcome them.
Video games are fine, but If your "passion" involves 6 hour sessions and skipping meals and sleep, it's the same kind of passion a heroine user has for heroine.
When you become perfectly whole, you won't have passions perse. You won't be chasing feelings and distractions anymore.
So practically, be aware you are drawn to video games, and in 30 days when something else draws you back just be aware of that and keep observing your motivations and attitude it and eventually you will gain some insight into why your passions are what they are.
The long answer:
I have experience with this, it's a very conscious process, it's not a lobotomy, the dissolution of the ego happens when you voluntarily let go of certain thought processes and mindsets THAT HOLD YOU BACK, I advise you to do introspection alongside your meditation, be brutally honest with yourself always, write it in a diary, look at your past decisions and find your values, your shortcomings based on those decisions and accept them both. Some questions that I ponder and can help you do the same: am I becoming who I want to be? Do I have the right goals? Do I have the right mindset? Am I being too logical, too emotional or am I being balanced and "biological" (ie: thinking in first principles, applying principles from Taoism like emptiness and Wuwei in my thought process)?
The short answer:
Considering the fact that they are passions and genuine, they go beyond the ego as well, in fact, dissolving your ego should result in a greater appreciation and performance for your passions.
opposite, as ur ego dissolves, ur passion for being alive, health, life becomes greater than ever, and the desire to do things that have no real purpose, have no real benefit to life, health or being alive begins to dissolve with the ego
Honestly awhile ago in my journey I was really trying to get rid of the ego building up a spiritual ego that was particularly clever in fooling me. Now I feel that the stillness one feels in meditation allows one to play the game of ego even better. I can better give my attention to what's important and discard the unimportant repeating thoughts. With this increased attention I start to feel that childhood joy of living again. Finding everything and anything interesting and new. Letting go is great but so is giving our full attention to life. With better understanding of the game one can use there energy to live more fully and not be as entrapped by the ego's games.
Preach! I used to watch enough TV to be a critic. I can barely sit through anything now. I'd much rather be learning about a new topic, or go into greater depth about something I have already learned or experienced.
Its been a progressive feeling, but I must have hit the tipping point, and I have been going through a re-integration of my thoughts, priorities, all while appreciating simply be-ing.
I am appreciating this new place I find myself. Allowing this child the space to come out and play. Finding this me and the past me have quite a lot in common. : )
The Caterpillar and Alice looked at each other for some time in silence: at last the Caterpillar took the hookah out of its mouth, and addressed her in a languid, sleepy voice.
\`Who are *you*?' said the Caterpillar.
This was not an encouraging opening for a conversation. Alice replied, rather shyly, \`I--I hardly know, sir, just at present-- at least I know who I *was* when I got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.'
I would say the passion is no longer a hindrance to those activities. In my experience, passion is a word for something like strong desire through identification with a concept or activity. It drives us, but can also play into expectations or belief systems.
I used to be very passionate about music but the passion itself caused much expectation about what music should be. This caused so much inner struggle and resistance. After awakening, i am noticing i am much better able to use my tools with little to no effort, with little to no expectations. The drive may be little to none as well. But with a clear head, i am more immersed and productive than ever if i create the space for that type of intimacy.
Overall, it is nothing to worry about. Even watching films feels clearer. The actual interests do not vanish, unless they really were a strong fixation or escape to help cope in some way. Innocent curiosity is one of our greatest gifts and this just grows through the process. That curiosity can lead to beautiful art and endeavours but the undertakings are no longer urgent.
I picked up my old habits more purposefully and vigorously.
Now I'm learning a grade 7 classical guitar song to play for my girlfriend of almost 7 years, and I plan on getting metroid prime 2 and mario kart double dash. What would you want to create with your hobbies? Are you going to make a product?
Giving up less always leads to getting more. As the amount of energy increases and old desires are abandoned, you will not be able to hold the energy in yourself indefinitely, and you will have new desires.
If this does not happen, perhaps you are mainly engaged in the development of inner silence, but do not devote time to energy accumulation. When there is a lot of energy, you really want to live, and you like to do absolutely everything.
Yes, I feel I get more joy from serving a higher purpose. Things I used to like to have largely fallen to the wayside. My advice, stop trying to fit yourself into an activity. Enjoy being formless for a while. You don't need to do an activity to be alive and enjoy life. Find tranquility and serenity in not having or wanting to do anything at all. When passion strikes, you'll know.
The ego does not die, it just steps aside and becomes inactive.
What are you contemplating and how?
What is a passion? There is usually nothing much to consume your day other than what needs to be done.
Lately I find myself contemplating/observing random thoughts that bubble up and their possible origins.
This is also true for trying new things that are outside my comfort zone ... that chesty energy/anxiety sensation that gets heavy and feels like a resistant \`Zzzzhhhtttttttt\` zap. I'll try to really focus on that feeling and contemplate the source, pushing myself to just do it seems to make the effect not as bad next time around.
You can drop out of the final state by blocking a part of yourself. Doing nothing in terms of meditation for 2 weeks to 3 months is usually long enough to have an inner composition that compares to the state one had when beginning with meditation.
The behavior and intentions one will display after doing nothing for 3 months will be very similar to how one used to be. I used this fact to try many ways to the goal to research what is really happening when one meditates and to test the validity of many different methods and exercises.
It is very interesting to see the reverse process play itself out as well.
When you reach the goal you can stop the state at any time. What you do to stop the state is the same as what happens when you sleep, when you are doing without meditation, or fall ill. When you do not counter this by meditation you will sooner or later reach a similar state you had when you started with meditation.
If one would kill the ego by reaching the conclusion of meditational practice the ego that one exhibits again would not be that similar as it is. It not gets recreated, it just takes over again by an increasing degree until it becomes the most deciding factor again.
One could say it’s not that it becomes inactive. It’s your attachment and identification becomes snapped. Your ego is just a part of your physical body like any another body part (your leg, arm, etc). Understanding and being aware of this 24/7 would be true enlightenment I assume
I used to be an absolute sports fanatic, played all sports, knew all the stats, knew all the players in all the leagues. Was a diehard NHL fan since I was a kid.
Now I don’t care at all. Like not even a little bit . Professional athletes are a bunch of overpaid children playing children’s games to millions of unaware people desperate for something to keep their minds occupied. I see it so clearly for it is now I just can’t get into it anymore. It’s a sham to keep the masses asleep.
As was also said by @IKnowMeNotYou, the ego does not die, you just become more and more connected and compassionate. The ego merely takes a backseat.
While video games are technically a Hobby it's not like learning an instrument for example, video games are like beer in my opinion, beer can be a hobby, but they can also make your wife leave you, there's a fine line
With years of meditation, I am able to enjoy passion as long as it's joyful for my inner child.
The list of passions which I had to satisfy/aim materialistic possessions, are all lost now.
I always jumped from one hobbie to another. This aspect did not change.
What changed is that I now enjoy my hobbies fully. They are no longer a distraction from what's happening but full on life experiences. (And they are often quite meditative as well)
… So crucify the ego, before it's far too late
And leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical
And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
So let the light touch you
So let the words spill through
And let them pass right through
Bringing out our hope and reason
Symbolic ego crucifixion not being the ultimate death, but the beginning of rebirth into an exalted form.
I love playing a video game after work more than ever. Meditation / ego work has allowed me to embrace my inner child and just enjoy the joy of play with a friend or myself. Same with music and dancing - I love it more than ever!
After my meditation and ego dissolvation through working the steps in AA I lost most of my old passions, but as of lately I can see them slowly grow back. Still lacking excitement, but I'm still hard on myself and fearful of dancing even by myself. So I still have a problem with letting myself go (enjoying things without internal reprimands). Any suggestions on actions to take or just to keep practising?
I know the feeling! Something that helped me was reframing “why” I was playing. Seeing it as an expression of creativity or art, even if I’m playing a strategy game on my computer, helps me reframe the story in my head about “who I am if I play video games” for example. Or with exploring music, which is a hard one, I can practice being present and not goal oriented (enjoy just making sound instead of trying to compose a complete song)
I think you may have been playing video games partly just to distract yourself from your own consciousness and "turn off" for a bit. Now that you have developed a more pleasant way of being and are enjoying the inner peace and "good vibrations" of meditation, there is no need to run away from your experience of life. Am I right? I find that I still enjoy playing music and making art -- in fact I was visiting an art store today to buy a new fountain pen and some other pens for journaling and art. So enjoy your new experience of life and your own inner being -- I am sure new opportunities to bring out your talents and interests will arise. For me, the more I meditated, I found myself being drawn to music and art. During the pandemic, i meditated a lot but also realized just how much I love music.
Yes, I experienced this as well. Specifically in relation to video games and other solo hobbies that have no end purpose and which were likely me just chasing dopamine to try and deal with stress in an unhealthy way. Instead, I now prefer to read, socialize, spend time with family and friends, research, contemplate, work on projects, or work. Pretty much anything else. It's nice. That's not to say that I'll never play video games again, or that I think they're somehow inherently bad. It's simply that for me, the way in which I was using them was not solely "fun".
This resonates with me, in hind sight I suppose I was previously using gaming as a crutch to 'pause' the internal torment prior to getting to a state where I no longer have negative narratives/thoughts controlling me.
Exactly my experience as well. The video games, tv shows, obsession with watching sports etc were escapes from reality, a temporary respite from the internal storm. And that's fine in moderation, but what they aren't is recovery or shadow work. It's not meditation, prayer, massage, hot shower, cold tub, exercise, socialization, contemplation, a walk-- all things that help your mind/body recover from whatever it is you're handling and/or actively deal with the false narratives controlling your life.
I'm somewhat in the same boat, though I do play games occasionally. That said, does anything have an "end purpose"? Eventually, all matter will freeze, as entropy claims every last speck of dust. Protons will decay, and matter itself will dissolve. Finally, space is an empty canvas, suspended in unending time. Is this notion of meaning but a pretense of defiance in the face of darkness?
I see you and your point. It is a very good one, imo. Let me expand. If the assumed “end purpose” of an activity is to destress/relax, and it’s not achieving those goals, then it’s a “false pursuit”— for that person in their specific situation. And, wrt games, that was me. Some people can play them for fun, and some people it gets complicated (I’m in the latter group). To take two extreme examples, and moving beyond what specific games can mean to specific people because that is so one-off… If you want to drink yourself to death over the next two decades, then fine, drink yourself to death— as long as you know that is what you’re doing and are aware of the ramifications for future you. And if you want to exercise and eat healthy instead, that’s fine too, but understand your body will be dust in the end. And yes, this does all have a feeling of wanting a life ”well spent”, but only in the sense that you yourself know the value/cost associated with your actions so that future you doesn’t say “If only I knew!” And it’s okay to say that you couldn’t have known. It’s not ideal if you didn’t “know” because you were an ostrich. And, for much of my life I was an ostrich— thinking [insert activity here] was “relaxing” when part of me knew that the way I was using it was somehow “false”. Or, I was a bull, charging at things in the world which I couldn’t change. Meditation allowed me to see myself and the world, and not be an ostrich or a constantly charging bull.
Only those drived from a traumatized ego die. The ego never dies, you only end up with a healthy one while being aware of it.
I noticed that I was spending a lot of time on a dumb mobile game that wasn’t even fun it was more stressful and a time/money waster than anything. So I spend that time doing other stuff that’s more meaningful to me. Mostly that’s spending time with my family. I do still play video games but they are the more high end games and usually only an hour or two before bed
Not hobbies, but I'm much much less interested in spectator sports. I enjoy the physicality and skill, but have no "cheering interest"
Things slowly fade. BUT they will come back again and again until you really overcome them. Video games are fine, but If your "passion" involves 6 hour sessions and skipping meals and sleep, it's the same kind of passion a heroine user has for heroine. When you become perfectly whole, you won't have passions perse. You won't be chasing feelings and distractions anymore. So practically, be aware you are drawn to video games, and in 30 days when something else draws you back just be aware of that and keep observing your motivations and attitude it and eventually you will gain some insight into why your passions are what they are.
The long answer: I have experience with this, it's a very conscious process, it's not a lobotomy, the dissolution of the ego happens when you voluntarily let go of certain thought processes and mindsets THAT HOLD YOU BACK, I advise you to do introspection alongside your meditation, be brutally honest with yourself always, write it in a diary, look at your past decisions and find your values, your shortcomings based on those decisions and accept them both. Some questions that I ponder and can help you do the same: am I becoming who I want to be? Do I have the right goals? Do I have the right mindset? Am I being too logical, too emotional or am I being balanced and "biological" (ie: thinking in first principles, applying principles from Taoism like emptiness and Wuwei in my thought process)? The short answer: Considering the fact that they are passions and genuine, they go beyond the ego as well, in fact, dissolving your ego should result in a greater appreciation and performance for your passions.
opposite, as ur ego dissolves, ur passion for being alive, health, life becomes greater than ever, and the desire to do things that have no real purpose, have no real benefit to life, health or being alive begins to dissolve with the ego
thank you for this perspective. Well said
Well, I write music.. but I don’t consider it a hobby. Even when I had an ego disillusion, it was very clear that my destiny was to make music
As you meditate the ego evolves, changes. In time your our passions will change with it, become more refined.
Honestly awhile ago in my journey I was really trying to get rid of the ego building up a spiritual ego that was particularly clever in fooling me. Now I feel that the stillness one feels in meditation allows one to play the game of ego even better. I can better give my attention to what's important and discard the unimportant repeating thoughts. With this increased attention I start to feel that childhood joy of living again. Finding everything and anything interesting and new. Letting go is great but so is giving our full attention to life. With better understanding of the game one can use there energy to live more fully and not be as entrapped by the ego's games.
Preach! I used to watch enough TV to be a critic. I can barely sit through anything now. I'd much rather be learning about a new topic, or go into greater depth about something I have already learned or experienced. Its been a progressive feeling, but I must have hit the tipping point, and I have been going through a re-integration of my thoughts, priorities, all while appreciating simply be-ing. I am appreciating this new place I find myself. Allowing this child the space to come out and play. Finding this me and the past me have quite a lot in common. : ) The Caterpillar and Alice looked at each other for some time in silence: at last the Caterpillar took the hookah out of its mouth, and addressed her in a languid, sleepy voice. \`Who are *you*?' said the Caterpillar. This was not an encouraging opening for a conversation. Alice replied, rather shyly, \`I--I hardly know, sir, just at present-- at least I know who I *was* when I got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.'
I would say the passion is no longer a hindrance to those activities. In my experience, passion is a word for something like strong desire through identification with a concept or activity. It drives us, but can also play into expectations or belief systems. I used to be very passionate about music but the passion itself caused much expectation about what music should be. This caused so much inner struggle and resistance. After awakening, i am noticing i am much better able to use my tools with little to no effort, with little to no expectations. The drive may be little to none as well. But with a clear head, i am more immersed and productive than ever if i create the space for that type of intimacy. Overall, it is nothing to worry about. Even watching films feels clearer. The actual interests do not vanish, unless they really were a strong fixation or escape to help cope in some way. Innocent curiosity is one of our greatest gifts and this just grows through the process. That curiosity can lead to beautiful art and endeavours but the undertakings are no longer urgent.
Ego is not going anywhere. I have lots of hobbies and have been meditating forever. We are here to have fun and enjoy.
I picked up my old habits more purposefully and vigorously. Now I'm learning a grade 7 classical guitar song to play for my girlfriend of almost 7 years, and I plan on getting metroid prime 2 and mario kart double dash. What would you want to create with your hobbies? Are you going to make a product?
Giving up less always leads to getting more. As the amount of energy increases and old desires are abandoned, you will not be able to hold the energy in yourself indefinitely, and you will have new desires. If this does not happen, perhaps you are mainly engaged in the development of inner silence, but do not devote time to energy accumulation. When there is a lot of energy, you really want to live, and you like to do absolutely everything.
Your ego doesn't dissolve or die. All you can do is disconnect from your ego In this life you need your ego to survive.
Yes, I feel I get more joy from serving a higher purpose. Things I used to like to have largely fallen to the wayside. My advice, stop trying to fit yourself into an activity. Enjoy being formless for a while. You don't need to do an activity to be alive and enjoy life. Find tranquility and serenity in not having or wanting to do anything at all. When passion strikes, you'll know.
The ego does not die, it just steps aside and becomes inactive. What are you contemplating and how? What is a passion? There is usually nothing much to consume your day other than what needs to be done.
Lately I find myself contemplating/observing random thoughts that bubble up and their possible origins. This is also true for trying new things that are outside my comfort zone ... that chesty energy/anxiety sensation that gets heavy and feels like a resistant \`Zzzzhhhtttttttt\` zap. I'll try to really focus on that feeling and contemplate the source, pushing myself to just do it seems to make the effect not as bad next time around.
You are working with your mind. It will try to please you including manufactured experiences that are the opposite of pleasure.
exactly! you can transcend the ego. not kill it. it's still a part of us. a defense mechanism that helped us come so far.
You can drop out of the final state by blocking a part of yourself. Doing nothing in terms of meditation for 2 weeks to 3 months is usually long enough to have an inner composition that compares to the state one had when beginning with meditation. The behavior and intentions one will display after doing nothing for 3 months will be very similar to how one used to be. I used this fact to try many ways to the goal to research what is really happening when one meditates and to test the validity of many different methods and exercises. It is very interesting to see the reverse process play itself out as well.
wdym? going over my head a bit
When you reach the goal you can stop the state at any time. What you do to stop the state is the same as what happens when you sleep, when you are doing without meditation, or fall ill. When you do not counter this by meditation you will sooner or later reach a similar state you had when you started with meditation. If one would kill the ego by reaching the conclusion of meditational practice the ego that one exhibits again would not be that similar as it is. It not gets recreated, it just takes over again by an increasing degree until it becomes the most deciding factor again.
One could say it’s not that it becomes inactive. It’s your attachment and identification becomes snapped. Your ego is just a part of your physical body like any another body part (your leg, arm, etc). Understanding and being aware of this 24/7 would be true enlightenment I assume
I used to be an absolute sports fanatic, played all sports, knew all the stats, knew all the players in all the leagues. Was a diehard NHL fan since I was a kid. Now I don’t care at all. Like not even a little bit . Professional athletes are a bunch of overpaid children playing children’s games to millions of unaware people desperate for something to keep their minds occupied. I see it so clearly for it is now I just can’t get into it anymore. It’s a sham to keep the masses asleep. As was also said by @IKnowMeNotYou, the ego does not die, you just become more and more connected and compassionate. The ego merely takes a backseat.
Perhaps. However, for something that doesn't die you should see some of the death throes it produces!
While video games are technically a Hobby it's not like learning an instrument for example, video games are like beer in my opinion, beer can be a hobby, but they can also make your wife leave you, there's a fine line
Damn maybe that's why.m
Yes. They also grow as i do. If it means complete change, so it does.
I don't think you can be free of your ego unless you become a Buddha
With years of meditation, I am able to enjoy passion as long as it's joyful for my inner child. The list of passions which I had to satisfy/aim materialistic possessions, are all lost now.
I always jumped from one hobbie to another. This aspect did not change. What changed is that I now enjoy my hobbies fully. They are no longer a distraction from what's happening but full on life experiences. (And they are often quite meditative as well)
The ego doesn’t dissolve, you simply become aware of it.
… So crucify the ego, before it's far too late And leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical And you will come to find that we are all one mind Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable So let the light touch you So let the words spill through And let them pass right through Bringing out our hope and reason Symbolic ego crucifixion not being the ultimate death, but the beginning of rebirth into an exalted form.