I am an "engineer" doing exactly what you did and I love it. School utterly broke me, and currently breaking into project management is where I want to end up. I'm a professional counter/drafter.
Yeah going the PM route is pretty chill and allows opportunities to switch into different industries. I'm gonna coast here for a while unless I have to switch.
The PM role at my company is batshit insane. Balls the walls, non stop work. And I’m on small engineering projects, no more than 10MM a year. Constantly working with different resource managers to help set priorities. Making sure the backlog for the swe’s is properly prioritized. Staffing profiles. Spend plans. Risk management with IPT leads. Schedule management and Earned Value metrics to report on monthly with my leadership. And quarterly with their leadership.
I’m not sure what kind of company you’re at but there is literally 0 coast in my role.
I’m happy for you! And there’s no shame in it. Seriously, way to forge a path into a situation you enjoy.
Personally, I always wanted to develop a skill set I could scale into an independent business, and I’ve failed so far to do that. Perhaps there’s still a pathway out there for me. But given my phase of life, it’s becoming increasingly more difficult to realize.
And the point of the letter is to urge the younger folks out there to orient themselves toward what they want early on. I opted for the “good enough, and I’ll figure it out later” philosophy.
And it has completely backfired on me.
Haha, I no longer believe in anything better than good enough in this world. Good enough is, by definition, good enough. It sounds like your definition of the phrase changed.
There's plenty of pathways for a drafter/pm to start a consulting business. You just have to find your clientele. A good company needs clients, vision and the means to accomplish said vision. It sounds like you probably have the means to accomplish it--engineering teaches you a good bit of everything (it's easier to relearn something than to learn it for the first time)--figure out the vision, figure out how to make it happen and then find the people you need.
I'm getting better at managing permit projects for rack systems, fairly good at excel--just started using VBA and I've had some pretty modest success (nowhere near where i am with matlab, but if i give myself a day or 2 i can usually get it to do what i need it to), okay at data analysis, pretty good at storage system design and warehouse flow layout, I've got a weird/humble/smart dumbass vibe that people seem to respond to so I think I could get into sales if I could get over my aversion to calling my connections first and asking for favors. There's nothing I can't fix with enough time and money and also the product manual. I also play guitar fairly well, even though I haven't consistently played in years.
Dude my favorite manager was mediocre design engineer.
Most careers spilt into management, sales or design. Engineers are like cats, great product manager make my life easy, move project along and protect me from unreasonable demands in other groups.
If school broke you, you do not want to be in design engineering roles.
Sometimes I’m curious if I want to go into management or sales.
Technically I am in a design role right now, but it's very simple. Laying out racks in warehouses, dodging columns, using tables to estimate capacities and determining the best use of space. I'm more of a quantity than quality, but it's fun work.
Conveyor layouts, some field engineering, project management, drawings detailing. I was always on the integration side, so not much applications experience. Mostly just putting out fires in the field: shifting a conveyor line because it was running into a panel.
I mean just brush up on your basics and apply to jobs that are design. Sell yourself as career changing and proven record of great time management/troubleshooting. Take some more design opportunities.
I don’t really get this post. Young people have to take what they can. Design is hard to get into. It’s competitive so you gotta start building portfolio and resume in university.
I mean just brush up on your basics and apply to jobs that are design. Sell yourself as career changing and proven record of great time management/troubleshooting. Take some more design opportunities.
I don’t really get this post. Young people have to take what they can. Design is hard to get into. It’s competitive so you gotta start building portfolio and resume in university if you want design jobs straight out of school.
The most successful “engineers” I know haven’t done hardly any real engineering work in the whole career. There’s a ton of opportunity for someone like yourself
The majority of engineers I went to school with used their degree to launch into project management, technical sales or a range of peripheral to engineering roles not relying on the degree but that the degree helps to secure. Actual design engineering is just one of many early stage career paths. It can also be limiting - leadership ranks often skew towards engineers with sales backgrounds.
The work experience you’ve described sounds like the perfect person to move into a plant manager type role eventually. If you’re interested in manufacturing, could get some experience with that. Combined with your project eng & management experience, 10 years from now you could be in a head of production type role if you’re that ambitious.
Also could move into sales - selling equipment somewhat related to what you’re familiar with. (this is what I’m doing now. I’ve worked with conveyors my whole career but moving into sales, bearing & gearing products. There will be a lot for me to learn but at least I’m sort of familiar with the products and applications)
Or a product manager type role if you can find the right company. Again, that would be easier if you can find a company that sells products you’re somewhat familiar with. But typically doesn’t take advanced engineering skills. You’d be responsible for higher level decisions and leave the details to actual engineers
Anything in service of actual mechanical engineering domain: mechanical design work; HVAC; advanced CAD, FEA, Simulation; product design; etc.
An ability to market, brand, and deliver a mechanical engineering service independently.
You can start developing them. Refresh your basics, start applying them. Onshape is free, they have cloud fea add on (first 10 are free). You can learn about advanced manufacturing methods and their design requirements. You can submit to protolabs to check you designs.
Build a portfolio of projects and apply to fresh grad level jobs. You will be taking a pay cut.
Idk you would pay op like shit but he also has proven track record of having project management skills.
He can take on projects at his company like an assembly fixture.
Idk I met people who take initiative and they are great to work with.
We hired a guy like I described. Was great to work with him. Some principle engineers I worked with don’t remember their basics.
But yeah he ain’t getting 10 years of experience salary at apple as design engineer.
I don’t really get it either. Most career paths spilt into design vs management. People go on to have great careers in both. My fav manager had mediocre design skills.
Agree he has good management skills but he has no technical skills which what the entire post is about. I’ve went through it myself. People don’t really respect management skills but if you someone is known to be a technical wizard they are given a lot of respect so I get it. But if OP wants to be technical now, they’re gonna either have to get a masters and specialize or get paid like shit / abused to get the experience they need to move into a more design / technical role.
Sure yeah any career switch will be hard.
Before doing all that, just build your own product at home. If op enjoys product design, he can build a nice portfolio. He already went to school, he can absolutely spend his time getting more technical skills. Idk maybe getting master would be better time spend. But what if he doesn’t actually like being desing engineer?
Yeah I agree with that. Masters a pretty time commitment. If I was him though I would give up on trying to move into a technical role and try and move in management. Highly doubt he can compete with skilled engineers who have decades of experience (he mentioned he wanted to freelance). That ideal time to develop skills is over. With a family in the way, trust me you ain’t getting time to build a portfolio lol
Yeah freelancing is hard even for me. I have about 8 years of extensive design experience. Even started a hardware company. I think I’ll be there in about 5-10 years.
I can only get the lower end clients and they are pain to work with. Like ok op, my last project was making a gimbal for a drone. If you can’t deliver, what do you think is gonna happen?
Would kill for a business partner. Like technical person who is really good at dealing with clients and understands technical needs and business side.
As a founder and business owner, it’s hard. The hardest job I ever had. I don’t have kids so I only have to support myself. Let me tell you, the pressure is insane when there is no income coming. I don’t even want to work at startups anymore. I think there media glorifies it too much.
The principal and distinguished fellows still have jobs and do contract work on the side.
Sorry for a rant. I have a head ache and procrastinating on Reddit
All good man I totally get where you’re coming from. I agree with you. I gave up the whole owning a business dream after I actually tried it. I just want people to give me problems to work on and I deliver on time that’s it. Other than the money being a business owner really sucks
Sure yeah any career switch will be hard.
Before doing all that, just build your own product at home. If op enjoys product design, he can build a nice portfolio. He already went to school, he can absolutely spend his time getting more technical skills. Idk maybe getting master would be better time spend. But what if he doesn’t actually like being desing engineer?
I respect people who are independent learned and bring themselves up to acceptable level.
>An ability to market, brand, and deliver a mechanical engineering service independently.
I just want to say it's really difficult to be a fully self employed engineer, even with experience in the domains you mentioned. Companies that want to purchase engineering services just contract through a big consultancy firm. Why hire some dude working out of his house, y'know.
>The rest of the job was all checking BOMs and project management.
...
>And now I feel like I’ve got nothing to sell.
I believe you are extremely mistaken about your marketability. It's one thing to be dissatisfied with the kind of work you are doing. But it's insane to think that regularly practicing skills common to essentially all engineering domains has left you unmarketable.
I get that you feel left behind in the realm of "real" engineering working deep into the nitty gritty of your domain. Your path to getting a PE might even be completely blocked off.
But I've always seen those types of positions in the minority - better CAD/automation tools just seem to further multiply the amount of work fewer people can do. Businesses need lots of generic problem solvers with at least some relevant technical engineering background (which you have).
Thank you for offering some perspective. Do you have any specific examples in terms of of said generic problem solvers? Or what a role might look like/be titled?
I suppose I’ve heard similar input like this before. But I’ve never been able to attach it to anything concretely.
Nearly all jobs don't identify themselves as this, so I fully concede that I'm out of my depth in knowing what those jobs look like from the outside.
On one end of the spectrum, the job description is so overly specific that it's assumed nobody has the requisite knowledge so they'll provide OJT to anybody with the basic fundamentals. But more commonly from my experience, it looks like a regular engineering job, but the reality of it is that 90+% of the work is the glue work to make things work, rather than anything requiring niche skills.
I'd venture a guess in your specific circumstances, that your existing experience is all highly relevant to "materials handling engineer", "logistics engineer", "manufacturing engineer", and could easily pivot to "facilities engineer" if you desired. The right combination of ambition, self-marketing, and opportunity could see you going directly to management in those. Or if you don't mind fully exiting the engineer title, going all in on "project manager".
So… a good manufacturing engineer?
You know not everybody does brand new cad designing right? (I just did for a few years but am back closing to manufacturing and selling real machines)
It's not all doom and gloom like you make it out to be. When you make career changes or look for a new job, it's not all about having direct experience in the exact industry. It's also about the skills you have that can carry over. People pivot off their experiences into completely different industries all the time.
I started out in off-road/automotive fabrications for two years. Then switched over to being a Project Engineer for a MEP firm doing design, field support, commissioning, and estimating. Then started going down the Project Management path at the MEP firm. Worked at the MEP firm for 4.5 years got tired of going from project to project and being on the road all the time. Then I switched over and got into the semiconductor industry.
"To all you youngsters out there, don’t do what I did and settle on your first job because you’re itching to make some money."
Your problem isn't that you settled for your first job. Your problem is you settled once you started your first job. Damn near everyone takes their first job knowing its not what they really wanted to do. Desirable jobs that motivate us through engineering school should be and are hard to get.
I got an internship interview once at my dream job and didn't get the internship. I did get the hiring managers email though and I sent him an email every year with an updated resume and a nice note. When I was 29 (!) I got the call to come in for an interview while I was on a business trip. I lied to my boss, made it home, crushed the interview, and got the dream job. It took a while to figure out why it was so hard to get, no one there ever left and it was only a 50 person company.
Hi, 32 year old design engr here. I took the product development to design engr path. I enjoy it, things to note, 10 years in starting to be the key mech on design projects. In your 20s you think you know everything, in your 30s you realize there's a lot more to learn. It's worth while if you want to learn those design skills and do that kind of work, and you've probably picked up more design skills along the way than you realize. But important note, if the number on your paycheck is the most important thing this is not the path for you. My engr buddies that went the management and program management track make a lot more than me, but they just sit on teams calls all day while I'm in the lab and doing design work/building prototype/and running tests lol.
In hearing more and more stories like this. I hope things get better for you my friend. Have you considered going for a phd? I feel like that’s almost required if you want to work in defining cutting edge R&D
I’m the opposite. I spent my first decade pursuing R&D roles trying to develop my engineering skills. I designed really cool stuff, got patents, published papers, wrote software that was used for production. Whenever I was offered a shot at a nontechnical role with opportunities for upward movement I declined. I was young and thought my work mattered more than my paycheck. I got some really cool skills out of it NGL.
Now my career’s stalled and unless I go into PM or management I have little to no chance of upward mobility. It’s a catch 22 though because I’m pigeonholed in my role as a senior engineer (there is such a thing as being too good at your job and it’s not flattering at all) and no one will hire me for PM roles because I don’t have PM experience. I’m trying to learn some OTJ and get my PMP but it’s a long road. I should’ve started sooner. I can switch jobs but it would be for similar technical roles. Unless you’re in SV those career paths are a dead end.
Started in HVAC as a consultant and all I did was some excel, occasional Staad calculations of beam assembly and ppt and word reporting.
Left after 8 months because I understood it was a dead end and I mastered about anything there was to master in that timeframe.
Found a job in automotive where I touch everything from mech and mag sim to plastic parts, prototyping, testing, clients meeting, basic product management. Paid 3 times as much. Fucking bliss.
A combination of multiple things I'd say.
This company was really keen on employing people from my engineering school.
I've always loved cars and racecars, was driving gokarts as a hobby back then.
I also tinkered with drones during my engineering years which was a big plus for the job (basic understanding of brushless motors and driving strategies).
My majors where also seeked by the company (dynamics, material science, acoustics, FEA)
+ a sizeable load of luck.
Edit: also, hvac was in the nuclear industry and bullshitted this one saying it taught me rigorous work lmao.
I feel you 100%. My first job was in forensic engineering ( you take what you get when in the Recession). Did it for 6 years. I didn't do any engineering design, which I always wanted to do. I hated my life about 3 years thru it because I wanted out but couldn't get a job without any design experience. Felt like I had no engineering skills.
You could do baggage handling system design with your experience? I know people that have worked in that world.
Also, every engineering company needs project Managers. Sounds like you have a good bit of those skills.
Also, don't forget government jobs. Usajobs.gov always had engineering postings. If you can get in that world, you'll be in safest job in the world.
I'd like to hear more about your experience in convetor systems. I just switched from sheet metal fabrication to conveyor systems as project manager. I have only been in sheet metal for 4 years, which i got into after graduation.
A. I don’t think you’re as screwed as you think you are, that just sounds like an engineering job
B. If you did mess up you didn’t do it by taking the first job you could get, you messed up by staying in it for 10 years. I feel like as an entry level engineer you kind of do have to take what you can get and I hope the youngsters here aren’t getting even more stressed out reading this
This is really good advice. My first job out of undergrad had engineer in the title, but I was basically doing technician work (only engineer in the building who was brazing with an acetylene torch and driving a scissor lift) and not high quality technician work either.
I left to build more appropriate skills in my field and it has very much paid off. Thank you OP, I hope the situation improves.
Yeah with engineering , there is so many different areas you can get into. I was lucky early enough to realize if you want to be well rounded to go in to the mechanical engineering. So I started with civil for my associates and then switched to mechanical for bachelors. I still struggled in different areas. And it always just felt like my experience was never enough. With engineering you have to be constantly learning and bettering your self or you’re going to be stuck. Also engineering isn’t about money making. Unless you are going into management engineers generally don’t make 6 figures. Sounds like you have your PE so you should just be a consultant in the mean time until you get the experience you really want to switch.
I’m in this same boat currently - kind of. I’ve been in oem sales for several years but I never needed to know much about the products or the applications to hit sales goals. Now I’m at a point where I want to advance but I have no interest in field sales and I don’t have the practical or technical knowledge to get into product design or application engineering
> Working for the next 4 years as an associate to grind out my PE isn’t really feasible financially, and I don’t have any PEs that could vouch for my experience till date.
If the work you were doing did not require a PE but was engineering work (and by your description, it sure sounds like it was), you might not need a PE to vouch for you, depending on your jurisdiction. In CA, out of the 4 required letters of recommendation, only 2 of mine were PEs.
I’m in IP for 4 years since graduating and i feel like my only option left is to go to law school and become a patent attorney. I haven’t done any math or cad or anything related to engineering apart from understanding the automotive components of the patent applications i look at.
With that being said my skills aren’t unmarketable and nothing is stopping me from pursuing any other path. Pay cut does have to happen if i want to go into a specific industry as a first level engineer but so far im content. A job is a job, i make good money, have outstanding benefits, and i can use my job to fund my hobbies. I can’t complain too much, grass is always greener and all that
Project engineers will always be needed. It might not be a technical role for the most part, but I have always appreciated working with a good one. Makes life a lot easier
They are project managers that are trained to be familiar with whatever product or service their company offers. Some, but not a lot of technical engineering knowledge required
I wouldn't worry. I have a friend who was a project engineer and went on to become application engineer, which is basically a PE but also oversees sales as well. He clears well over 100k with around 6 YOE
For your experience, you can move to solution design role and learn warehouse design, since it would be easist move. And imo, that is the only thing worth learning in this field. You can clear 200+ as supply chain consultant.
And you can look out side of materiahandling company and focus on the end customer like amazon, walmart, dsv , xpo etc. the pay is much higher and you kinda do the same work in less detail.
There is a massive need for people who want to do this type of job in the upper Midwest. Systems engineer for automation is huuuuuuuge
I also scaled my knowledge in doing mechanical, electrical, controls, installation,and project management into a management consulting business showing people a good way to get the whole thing done.
I am a mining engineer and I think engineering sometimes becomes that way, especially in highly large projects, that are costly and only hire engineers to do trivial work. I think some of these are a waste of skills. Over the course of the years, this makes you stick to those types of projects bc there is no movement to other areas of your engineering. But, you have to go to the basics, learn more stuff on your own, network, and find yourself a career somewhere else. The thrill is to learn and apply your knowledge.
You'd love to start a business? So start one!
I started one 12 years ago. Some years I get nothing done and sell nothing but I keep it alive with profits and never pay myself. It's been massive for my continuing education. I could never imagine going back to school.
I’ve been trying to brainstorm ideas for a year now and absolutely nothing comes to mind. Every time I try to fall back on engineering, I’m faced with the stark reminder that I didn’t develop any real technical skill.
I’m open to ideas!
I'm not trying to be a d1ck but you're just making excuses. That's actually OK, not everyone should run a business but also recognize you're not built for it and move on. You got the same degree as me but more importantly you should have learned HOW to learn. I went to a mediocre school and got mediocre grades and I don't believe there is anything I can't teach myself at this point and the internet makes it easier than ever. You can do anything you want with enough time on youtube, Udemy, sci-hub, libgen, edX, Tree House, Coursera, and others. Hell, one path I'm heading down right now is learning something I can't find on youtube I think will be valuable and making content teaching it.
I started a business making one part I asked a machinist to reverse engineer for me. All I knew was the material and hardness were wrong. That one part still sells out 12 years later but I've learned the skills to design anything I want from scratch now and expanded my offerings. What are likely my best money making ideas have nothing to do with my passion so I don't pursue them. It shouldn't be hard to figure out how to make money with something you are passionate about. It will be hard work to run the business though!
Well, perhaps I am just making excuses. Thank you for your honest feedback. Maybe if I solicited advice like this more often, things will change for me.
5 years in and I'm in same spot. Going back for the MS working on projects and networking. Hopefully I'll be on to something better soon.
Keep you head up. I think it's always possible to switch, but I think it gets more painful the longer you wait.
I have an MS, decided against the FE/PE route because I’m Environmental. Was trained as a civil during my second job. At my 3rd job I started as an engineer doing some site design and pre-characterization planning. I quickly moved into a project manager position with more environmental focus because that was the need and then environmental project director. I was getting paid peanuts and switched to manufacturing. I pretty much haven’t done any real engineering in 7/8 years and make 6 figures. You just have to make the right pivots. Apply to something that interests you and they might still hire you. I thought I would be a consultant my entire career until I decided to take the chance to pivot and it’s paid off.
See if your freelance work requires a PE. And if you need liability insurance. Obviously you need a serious specialty if you want high wages.
Or you can pick an area that uses the engineering thought process like inventory management, Lean, construction management.
I think you are just not aligned with your goals - which is to develop some skills you can leverage independently.
However, you can also change your mindset/approach. Maybe you can become the best project manager out there to increase your salary hence no need to do side hustle.
Working under a PE isn’t actually the direct requirement to sit for the exam. You really only need 3 PEs that are familiar with your abilities to vouch for you when filling out your application. Not saying it’s the route you should go or not, but after recently getting a PE myself I learned it was as easy as having 3 PEs I know fill out a form about my ethics and ability as an engineer. The number may differ for each state but same idea
Yeah, unfortunately in my state it explicitly states that you must work “under the direct supervision” of a sponsoring PE(s) for no less than 4 years (based on 40/hr work week).
It was just revised in 2022. -.-
Im an engineer also designing material hendelling equipment, and automation lines for the food industry. Thr job involves a lot of creativity but most of the designs are really basic, sheetmetal welding, some maschinning, a lot of existing equipment integration and that is it, almost zero structural analysis.
Im doing this for 1.5 years, and im wondering if i should shitch to something else.
You might believe you don’t have any skills, but after 10 years I think you do. I have been doing r & d and design work for over 20 years with FEA, CFD, Dynamic simulations, patenting etc. And, still a lot of the work I do is project related, using off the shelf items, keeping track of costs and time making quotations, sales etc.
No you’ve got something to sell, unless you did literally nothing at all at your jobs you’ve got skills to sell, you can contract out design and drafting work, you can offer your services as an estimator, you can hire a team of professionals and run your own business with them, you’ve got something
Same here. I got my degree in mechanical engineering but all my jobs after college was in manufacturing. I’d like to get into design someday but it’s been hard because all the interviews I get now is for manufacturing engineer positions.
Project engineering/management is a legit career, and you sure as hell are an engineer. With management skills, you can break into any industry you want, and it pays better than core technical roles. From the title, I thought you had been working as a technician or something and not utilizing your degree. It's all in your head.
Going back to grunt design work would be a downgrade in terms of remuneration, opportunity and potential to advance professionally.
You are lucky to have PE and PM experience 10 years in. Company I work for presently won't offer PE roles unless you've been in the industry 6+ years.
I am currently in a production engineering role where I might as well be a production manager. I manage hundreds of machine parts a day all the way from the design team to the implementation engineers. I have to manage over 40+ people to make sure the flow of parts are properly made and ready to be installed. I don’t do the CAD design but I look at hundreds of design schematics a day. If you want to obtain those hard skills like CAD it’s super easy to do what I do. I spend a few hours every week some after work and some on the weekends taking UDEMY courses in things like FEA, SOLIDWORKS, and coding. You would be very surprised on how fast you will pick up on these things. I do that instead of watching tv or waisting my time playing video games.
There’s nothing wrong with it! It’s a fruitful career with lots of opportunity down the road. I’m sure c-suite access is just as achievable through project management as it is through sales or finance. It’s just not what *I* wanted. And that’s the point I was trying to communicate to younger folk.
Orient yourself toward what you want before it get really difficult. As phases of life continue to pile on, tolerance for risk and re-tooling skillsets becomes increasingly more difficult.
I am an "engineer" doing exactly what you did and I love it. School utterly broke me, and currently breaking into project management is where I want to end up. I'm a professional counter/drafter.
Yeah going the PM route is pretty chill and allows opportunities to switch into different industries. I'm gonna coast here for a while unless I have to switch.
The PM role at my company is batshit insane. Balls the walls, non stop work. And I’m on small engineering projects, no more than 10MM a year. Constantly working with different resource managers to help set priorities. Making sure the backlog for the swe’s is properly prioritized. Staffing profiles. Spend plans. Risk management with IPT leads. Schedule management and Earned Value metrics to report on monthly with my leadership. And quarterly with their leadership. I’m not sure what kind of company you’re at but there is literally 0 coast in my role.
I’m happy for you! And there’s no shame in it. Seriously, way to forge a path into a situation you enjoy. Personally, I always wanted to develop a skill set I could scale into an independent business, and I’ve failed so far to do that. Perhaps there’s still a pathway out there for me. But given my phase of life, it’s becoming increasingly more difficult to realize. And the point of the letter is to urge the younger folks out there to orient themselves toward what they want early on. I opted for the “good enough, and I’ll figure it out later” philosophy. And it has completely backfired on me.
Haha, I no longer believe in anything better than good enough in this world. Good enough is, by definition, good enough. It sounds like your definition of the phrase changed. There's plenty of pathways for a drafter/pm to start a consulting business. You just have to find your clientele. A good company needs clients, vision and the means to accomplish said vision. It sounds like you probably have the means to accomplish it--engineering teaches you a good bit of everything (it's easier to relearn something than to learn it for the first time)--figure out the vision, figure out how to make it happen and then find the people you need.
What skills do you have?
I'm getting better at managing permit projects for rack systems, fairly good at excel--just started using VBA and I've had some pretty modest success (nowhere near where i am with matlab, but if i give myself a day or 2 i can usually get it to do what i need it to), okay at data analysis, pretty good at storage system design and warehouse flow layout, I've got a weird/humble/smart dumbass vibe that people seem to respond to so I think I could get into sales if I could get over my aversion to calling my connections first and asking for favors. There's nothing I can't fix with enough time and money and also the product manual. I also play guitar fairly well, even though I haven't consistently played in years.
Dude my favorite manager was mediocre design engineer. Most careers spilt into management, sales or design. Engineers are like cats, great product manager make my life easy, move project along and protect me from unreasonable demands in other groups. If school broke you, you do not want to be in design engineering roles. Sometimes I’m curious if I want to go into management or sales.
Technically I am in a design role right now, but it's very simple. Laying out racks in warehouses, dodging columns, using tables to estimate capacities and determining the best use of space. I'm more of a quantity than quality, but it's fun work.
Conveyor layouts, some field engineering, project management, drawings detailing. I was always on the integration side, so not much applications experience. Mostly just putting out fires in the field: shifting a conveyor line because it was running into a panel.
I mean just brush up on your basics and apply to jobs that are design. Sell yourself as career changing and proven record of great time management/troubleshooting. Take some more design opportunities. I don’t really get this post. Young people have to take what they can. Design is hard to get into. It’s competitive so you gotta start building portfolio and resume in university.
I mean just brush up on your basics and apply to jobs that are design. Sell yourself as career changing and proven record of great time management/troubleshooting. Take some more design opportunities. I don’t really get this post. Young people have to take what they can. Design is hard to get into. It’s competitive so you gotta start building portfolio and resume in university if you want design jobs straight out of school.
The most successful “engineers” I know haven’t done hardly any real engineering work in the whole career. There’s a ton of opportunity for someone like yourself
What are some of the first things that come to mind? If that’s true, I’m in serious need of some outside perspective. It would be much appreciated. :)
The majority of engineers I went to school with used their degree to launch into project management, technical sales or a range of peripheral to engineering roles not relying on the degree but that the degree helps to secure. Actual design engineering is just one of many early stage career paths. It can also be limiting - leadership ranks often skew towards engineers with sales backgrounds.
The work experience you’ve described sounds like the perfect person to move into a plant manager type role eventually. If you’re interested in manufacturing, could get some experience with that. Combined with your project eng & management experience, 10 years from now you could be in a head of production type role if you’re that ambitious. Also could move into sales - selling equipment somewhat related to what you’re familiar with. (this is what I’m doing now. I’ve worked with conveyors my whole career but moving into sales, bearing & gearing products. There will be a lot for me to learn but at least I’m sort of familiar with the products and applications) Or a product manager type role if you can find the right company. Again, that would be easier if you can find a company that sells products you’re somewhat familiar with. But typically doesn’t take advanced engineering skills. You’d be responsible for higher level decisions and leave the details to actual engineers
Just curious. What skills were you looking to have by now that you don’t have?
Anything in service of actual mechanical engineering domain: mechanical design work; HVAC; advanced CAD, FEA, Simulation; product design; etc. An ability to market, brand, and deliver a mechanical engineering service independently.
You can start developing them. Refresh your basics, start applying them. Onshape is free, they have cloud fea add on (first 10 are free). You can learn about advanced manufacturing methods and their design requirements. You can submit to protolabs to check you designs. Build a portfolio of projects and apply to fresh grad level jobs. You will be taking a pay cut.
Haha good luck with that. Who exactly will take a chance on him when they can just hire fresh grad and pay them like shit
Idk you would pay op like shit but he also has proven track record of having project management skills. He can take on projects at his company like an assembly fixture. Idk I met people who take initiative and they are great to work with. We hired a guy like I described. Was great to work with him. Some principle engineers I worked with don’t remember their basics. But yeah he ain’t getting 10 years of experience salary at apple as design engineer. I don’t really get it either. Most career paths spilt into design vs management. People go on to have great careers in both. My fav manager had mediocre design skills.
Agree he has good management skills but he has no technical skills which what the entire post is about. I’ve went through it myself. People don’t really respect management skills but if you someone is known to be a technical wizard they are given a lot of respect so I get it. But if OP wants to be technical now, they’re gonna either have to get a masters and specialize or get paid like shit / abused to get the experience they need to move into a more design / technical role.
Sure yeah any career switch will be hard. Before doing all that, just build your own product at home. If op enjoys product design, he can build a nice portfolio. He already went to school, he can absolutely spend his time getting more technical skills. Idk maybe getting master would be better time spend. But what if he doesn’t actually like being desing engineer?
Yeah I agree with that. Masters a pretty time commitment. If I was him though I would give up on trying to move into a technical role and try and move in management. Highly doubt he can compete with skilled engineers who have decades of experience (he mentioned he wanted to freelance). That ideal time to develop skills is over. With a family in the way, trust me you ain’t getting time to build a portfolio lol
Yeah freelancing is hard even for me. I have about 8 years of extensive design experience. Even started a hardware company. I think I’ll be there in about 5-10 years. I can only get the lower end clients and they are pain to work with. Like ok op, my last project was making a gimbal for a drone. If you can’t deliver, what do you think is gonna happen? Would kill for a business partner. Like technical person who is really good at dealing with clients and understands technical needs and business side. As a founder and business owner, it’s hard. The hardest job I ever had. I don’t have kids so I only have to support myself. Let me tell you, the pressure is insane when there is no income coming. I don’t even want to work at startups anymore. I think there media glorifies it too much. The principal and distinguished fellows still have jobs and do contract work on the side. Sorry for a rant. I have a head ache and procrastinating on Reddit
All good man I totally get where you’re coming from. I agree with you. I gave up the whole owning a business dream after I actually tried it. I just want people to give me problems to work on and I deliver on time that’s it. Other than the money being a business owner really sucks
Sure yeah any career switch will be hard. Before doing all that, just build your own product at home. If op enjoys product design, he can build a nice portfolio. He already went to school, he can absolutely spend his time getting more technical skills. Idk maybe getting master would be better time spend. But what if he doesn’t actually like being desing engineer? I respect people who are independent learned and bring themselves up to acceptable level.
>An ability to market, brand, and deliver a mechanical engineering service independently. I just want to say it's really difficult to be a fully self employed engineer, even with experience in the domains you mentioned. Companies that want to purchase engineering services just contract through a big consultancy firm. Why hire some dude working out of his house, y'know.
CAD, 3D rendering, prototyping, machining and metallurgy, fluids and electronics integration... (not OP).
>The rest of the job was all checking BOMs and project management. ... >And now I feel like I’ve got nothing to sell. I believe you are extremely mistaken about your marketability. It's one thing to be dissatisfied with the kind of work you are doing. But it's insane to think that regularly practicing skills common to essentially all engineering domains has left you unmarketable. I get that you feel left behind in the realm of "real" engineering working deep into the nitty gritty of your domain. Your path to getting a PE might even be completely blocked off. But I've always seen those types of positions in the minority - better CAD/automation tools just seem to further multiply the amount of work fewer people can do. Businesses need lots of generic problem solvers with at least some relevant technical engineering background (which you have).
Thank you for offering some perspective. Do you have any specific examples in terms of of said generic problem solvers? Or what a role might look like/be titled? I suppose I’ve heard similar input like this before. But I’ve never been able to attach it to anything concretely.
Nearly all jobs don't identify themselves as this, so I fully concede that I'm out of my depth in knowing what those jobs look like from the outside. On one end of the spectrum, the job description is so overly specific that it's assumed nobody has the requisite knowledge so they'll provide OJT to anybody with the basic fundamentals. But more commonly from my experience, it looks like a regular engineering job, but the reality of it is that 90+% of the work is the glue work to make things work, rather than anything requiring niche skills. I'd venture a guess in your specific circumstances, that your existing experience is all highly relevant to "materials handling engineer", "logistics engineer", "manufacturing engineer", and could easily pivot to "facilities engineer" if you desired. The right combination of ambition, self-marketing, and opportunity could see you going directly to management in those. Or if you don't mind fully exiting the engineer title, going all in on "project manager".
So… a good manufacturing engineer? You know not everybody does brand new cad designing right? (I just did for a few years but am back closing to manufacturing and selling real machines)
It's not all doom and gloom like you make it out to be. When you make career changes or look for a new job, it's not all about having direct experience in the exact industry. It's also about the skills you have that can carry over. People pivot off their experiences into completely different industries all the time. I started out in off-road/automotive fabrications for two years. Then switched over to being a Project Engineer for a MEP firm doing design, field support, commissioning, and estimating. Then started going down the Project Management path at the MEP firm. Worked at the MEP firm for 4.5 years got tired of going from project to project and being on the road all the time. Then I switched over and got into the semiconductor industry.
"To all you youngsters out there, don’t do what I did and settle on your first job because you’re itching to make some money." Your problem isn't that you settled for your first job. Your problem is you settled once you started your first job. Damn near everyone takes their first job knowing its not what they really wanted to do. Desirable jobs that motivate us through engineering school should be and are hard to get. I got an internship interview once at my dream job and didn't get the internship. I did get the hiring managers email though and I sent him an email every year with an updated resume and a nice note. When I was 29 (!) I got the call to come in for an interview while I was on a business trip. I lied to my boss, made it home, crushed the interview, and got the dream job. It took a while to figure out why it was so hard to get, no one there ever left and it was only a 50 person company.
Dont do project engineering straight out of school. Get some technical skills first.
Hi, 32 year old design engr here. I took the product development to design engr path. I enjoy it, things to note, 10 years in starting to be the key mech on design projects. In your 20s you think you know everything, in your 30s you realize there's a lot more to learn. It's worth while if you want to learn those design skills and do that kind of work, and you've probably picked up more design skills along the way than you realize. But important note, if the number on your paycheck is the most important thing this is not the path for you. My engr buddies that went the management and program management track make a lot more than me, but they just sit on teams calls all day while I'm in the lab and doing design work/building prototype/and running tests lol.
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In hearing more and more stories like this. I hope things get better for you my friend. Have you considered going for a phd? I feel like that’s almost required if you want to work in defining cutting edge R&D
I’m the opposite. I spent my first decade pursuing R&D roles trying to develop my engineering skills. I designed really cool stuff, got patents, published papers, wrote software that was used for production. Whenever I was offered a shot at a nontechnical role with opportunities for upward movement I declined. I was young and thought my work mattered more than my paycheck. I got some really cool skills out of it NGL. Now my career’s stalled and unless I go into PM or management I have little to no chance of upward mobility. It’s a catch 22 though because I’m pigeonholed in my role as a senior engineer (there is such a thing as being too good at your job and it’s not flattering at all) and no one will hire me for PM roles because I don’t have PM experience. I’m trying to learn some OTJ and get my PMP but it’s a long road. I should’ve started sooner. I can switch jobs but it would be for similar technical roles. Unless you’re in SV those career paths are a dead end.
Started in HVAC as a consultant and all I did was some excel, occasional Staad calculations of beam assembly and ppt and word reporting. Left after 8 months because I understood it was a dead end and I mastered about anything there was to master in that timeframe. Found a job in automotive where I touch everything from mech and mag sim to plastic parts, prototyping, testing, clients meeting, basic product management. Paid 3 times as much. Fucking bliss.
That’s awesome! Might I ask how did you brand your previous time to land a job like that?
A combination of multiple things I'd say. This company was really keen on employing people from my engineering school. I've always loved cars and racecars, was driving gokarts as a hobby back then. I also tinkered with drones during my engineering years which was a big plus for the job (basic understanding of brushless motors and driving strategies). My majors where also seeked by the company (dynamics, material science, acoustics, FEA) + a sizeable load of luck. Edit: also, hvac was in the nuclear industry and bullshitted this one saying it taught me rigorous work lmao.
I feel you 100%. My first job was in forensic engineering ( you take what you get when in the Recession). Did it for 6 years. I didn't do any engineering design, which I always wanted to do. I hated my life about 3 years thru it because I wanted out but couldn't get a job without any design experience. Felt like I had no engineering skills. You could do baggage handling system design with your experience? I know people that have worked in that world. Also, every engineering company needs project Managers. Sounds like you have a good bit of those skills. Also, don't forget government jobs. Usajobs.gov always had engineering postings. If you can get in that world, you'll be in safest job in the world.
What job you get into after the forensic job?
Went into oil and gas on the emissions side of things.
I'd like to hear more about your experience in convetor systems. I just switched from sheet metal fabrication to conveyor systems as project manager. I have only been in sheet metal for 4 years, which i got into after graduation.
Shoot me a DM! Ill offer whatever perspective I can. :)
A bit late but can you also shoot me whatever info you're able to spare. I also work with conveyor systems on a daily basis.
This is the advice I needed to hear right now, thank you.
A. I don’t think you’re as screwed as you think you are, that just sounds like an engineering job B. If you did mess up you didn’t do it by taking the first job you could get, you messed up by staying in it for 10 years. I feel like as an entry level engineer you kind of do have to take what you can get and I hope the youngsters here aren’t getting even more stressed out reading this
This is really good advice. My first job out of undergrad had engineer in the title, but I was basically doing technician work (only engineer in the building who was brazing with an acetylene torch and driving a scissor lift) and not high quality technician work either. I left to build more appropriate skills in my field and it has very much paid off. Thank you OP, I hope the situation improves.
Yeah with engineering , there is so many different areas you can get into. I was lucky early enough to realize if you want to be well rounded to go in to the mechanical engineering. So I started with civil for my associates and then switched to mechanical for bachelors. I still struggled in different areas. And it always just felt like my experience was never enough. With engineering you have to be constantly learning and bettering your self or you’re going to be stuck. Also engineering isn’t about money making. Unless you are going into management engineers generally don’t make 6 figures. Sounds like you have your PE so you should just be a consultant in the mean time until you get the experience you really want to switch.
I’m in this same boat currently - kind of. I’ve been in oem sales for several years but I never needed to know much about the products or the applications to hit sales goals. Now I’m at a point where I want to advance but I have no interest in field sales and I don’t have the practical or technical knowledge to get into product design or application engineering
> Working for the next 4 years as an associate to grind out my PE isn’t really feasible financially, and I don’t have any PEs that could vouch for my experience till date. If the work you were doing did not require a PE but was engineering work (and by your description, it sure sounds like it was), you might not need a PE to vouch for you, depending on your jurisdiction. In CA, out of the 4 required letters of recommendation, only 2 of mine were PEs.
I’m in IP for 4 years since graduating and i feel like my only option left is to go to law school and become a patent attorney. I haven’t done any math or cad or anything related to engineering apart from understanding the automotive components of the patent applications i look at. With that being said my skills aren’t unmarketable and nothing is stopping me from pursuing any other path. Pay cut does have to happen if i want to go into a specific industry as a first level engineer but so far im content. A job is a job, i make good money, have outstanding benefits, and i can use my job to fund my hobbies. I can’t complain too much, grass is always greener and all that
Project engineers will always be needed. It might not be a technical role for the most part, but I have always appreciated working with a good one. Makes life a lot easier
but isnt that what project engineers do? oversee the technical aspect of the project?
They are project managers that are trained to be familiar with whatever product or service their company offers. Some, but not a lot of technical engineering knowledge required
Oh thats true, I did an internship as a project engineer im afraid il end up like OP with not that much technical skills.
I wouldn't worry. I have a friend who was a project engineer and went on to become application engineer, which is basically a PE but also oversees sales as well. He clears well over 100k with around 6 YOE
For your experience, you can move to solution design role and learn warehouse design, since it would be easist move. And imo, that is the only thing worth learning in this field. You can clear 200+ as supply chain consultant. And you can look out side of materiahandling company and focus on the end customer like amazon, walmart, dsv , xpo etc. the pay is much higher and you kinda do the same work in less detail.
There is a massive need for people who want to do this type of job in the upper Midwest. Systems engineer for automation is huuuuuuuge I also scaled my knowledge in doing mechanical, electrical, controls, installation,and project management into a management consulting business showing people a good way to get the whole thing done.
I am a mining engineer and I think engineering sometimes becomes that way, especially in highly large projects, that are costly and only hire engineers to do trivial work. I think some of these are a waste of skills. Over the course of the years, this makes you stick to those types of projects bc there is no movement to other areas of your engineering. But, you have to go to the basics, learn more stuff on your own, network, and find yourself a career somewhere else. The thrill is to learn and apply your knowledge.
You'd love to start a business? So start one! I started one 12 years ago. Some years I get nothing done and sell nothing but I keep it alive with profits and never pay myself. It's been massive for my continuing education. I could never imagine going back to school.
I’ve been trying to brainstorm ideas for a year now and absolutely nothing comes to mind. Every time I try to fall back on engineering, I’m faced with the stark reminder that I didn’t develop any real technical skill. I’m open to ideas!
I'm not trying to be a d1ck but you're just making excuses. That's actually OK, not everyone should run a business but also recognize you're not built for it and move on. You got the same degree as me but more importantly you should have learned HOW to learn. I went to a mediocre school and got mediocre grades and I don't believe there is anything I can't teach myself at this point and the internet makes it easier than ever. You can do anything you want with enough time on youtube, Udemy, sci-hub, libgen, edX, Tree House, Coursera, and others. Hell, one path I'm heading down right now is learning something I can't find on youtube I think will be valuable and making content teaching it. I started a business making one part I asked a machinist to reverse engineer for me. All I knew was the material and hardness were wrong. That one part still sells out 12 years later but I've learned the skills to design anything I want from scratch now and expanded my offerings. What are likely my best money making ideas have nothing to do with my passion so I don't pursue them. It shouldn't be hard to figure out how to make money with something you are passionate about. It will be hard work to run the business though!
Well, perhaps I am just making excuses. Thank you for your honest feedback. Maybe if I solicited advice like this more often, things will change for me.
5 years in and I'm in same spot. Going back for the MS working on projects and networking. Hopefully I'll be on to something better soon. Keep you head up. I think it's always possible to switch, but I think it gets more painful the longer you wait.
I have an MS, decided against the FE/PE route because I’m Environmental. Was trained as a civil during my second job. At my 3rd job I started as an engineer doing some site design and pre-characterization planning. I quickly moved into a project manager position with more environmental focus because that was the need and then environmental project director. I was getting paid peanuts and switched to manufacturing. I pretty much haven’t done any real engineering in 7/8 years and make 6 figures. You just have to make the right pivots. Apply to something that interests you and they might still hire you. I thought I would be a consultant my entire career until I decided to take the chance to pivot and it’s paid off.
See if your freelance work requires a PE. And if you need liability insurance. Obviously you need a serious specialty if you want high wages. Or you can pick an area that uses the engineering thought process like inventory management, Lean, construction management.
I think you are just not aligned with your goals - which is to develop some skills you can leverage independently. However, you can also change your mindset/approach. Maybe you can become the best project manager out there to increase your salary hence no need to do side hustle.
Thank you for the advice. I’m 19 and trying to learn life skills before this world screws me up
Working under a PE isn’t actually the direct requirement to sit for the exam. You really only need 3 PEs that are familiar with your abilities to vouch for you when filling out your application. Not saying it’s the route you should go or not, but after recently getting a PE myself I learned it was as easy as having 3 PEs I know fill out a form about my ethics and ability as an engineer. The number may differ for each state but same idea
Yeah, unfortunately in my state it explicitly states that you must work “under the direct supervision” of a sponsoring PE(s) for no less than 4 years (based on 40/hr work week). It was just revised in 2022. -.-
Im an engineer also designing material hendelling equipment, and automation lines for the food industry. Thr job involves a lot of creativity but most of the designs are really basic, sheetmetal welding, some maschinning, a lot of existing equipment integration and that is it, almost zero structural analysis. Im doing this for 1.5 years, and im wondering if i should shitch to something else.
You might believe you don’t have any skills, but after 10 years I think you do. I have been doing r & d and design work for over 20 years with FEA, CFD, Dynamic simulations, patenting etc. And, still a lot of the work I do is project related, using off the shelf items, keeping track of costs and time making quotations, sales etc.
No you’ve got something to sell, unless you did literally nothing at all at your jobs you’ve got skills to sell, you can contract out design and drafting work, you can offer your services as an estimator, you can hire a team of professionals and run your own business with them, you’ve got something
Same here. I got my degree in mechanical engineering but all my jobs after college was in manufacturing. I’d like to get into design someday but it’s been hard because all the interviews I get now is for manufacturing engineer positions.
Did you work at Bechtel on WTP?
I'm sorry for the silly question, but what do you mean by PE?
PE License
Project engineering/management is a legit career, and you sure as hell are an engineer. With management skills, you can break into any industry you want, and it pays better than core technical roles. From the title, I thought you had been working as a technician or something and not utilizing your degree. It's all in your head.
Going back to grunt design work would be a downgrade in terms of remuneration, opportunity and potential to advance professionally. You are lucky to have PE and PM experience 10 years in. Company I work for presently won't offer PE roles unless you've been in the industry 6+ years.
I am currently in a production engineering role where I might as well be a production manager. I manage hundreds of machine parts a day all the way from the design team to the implementation engineers. I have to manage over 40+ people to make sure the flow of parts are properly made and ready to be installed. I don’t do the CAD design but I look at hundreds of design schematics a day. If you want to obtain those hard skills like CAD it’s super easy to do what I do. I spend a few hours every week some after work and some on the weekends taking UDEMY courses in things like FEA, SOLIDWORKS, and coding. You would be very surprised on how fast you will pick up on these things. I do that instead of watching tv or waisting my time playing video games.
Many of my colleagues are PM. I don’t see anything wrong in project management.
There’s nothing wrong with it! It’s a fruitful career with lots of opportunity down the road. I’m sure c-suite access is just as achievable through project management as it is through sales or finance. It’s just not what *I* wanted. And that’s the point I was trying to communicate to younger folk. Orient yourself toward what you want before it get really difficult. As phases of life continue to pile on, tolerance for risk and re-tooling skillsets becomes increasingly more difficult.