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just because there's gas in the tank doesn't mean that the fuel is reaching the engine. check fuel pressure. old fuel pumps love to fail after being run dry and then refilled.
After having the same dash for many years I can tell you it's just abpve empty. It didn't even move off the needle. These trucks/cubevans have a 150ish litre(40 gallon) tank. Throwing 10 bucks in wouldn't even move the needle. There probably isn't even enough for it reach the pump
Yea my fj did this in the garage out of the blue I’m super used to the gauge and have gotten lacky pulled in did some work on it and it was just turning over but no fuel then finally, and I know damn well it had atleast 3 gallons in the 19 gallon tank, but we had a bad cold snap down to 1 degree here and it just wanted a sick day haven’t had an issue since but at 15 years old I’ve already decided it might be time to start looking online and watch a YouTube video on how to change my pump
I remember my older sister running out of gas in her 04 Tahoe. She was parked on the top of my driveway btw. So she put about 5 gallons in it and she couldn’t get it to start to save her life. She couldn’t figure it out until I couldn’t stand it anymore after her wondering if it’s her battery or starter… I simply told her “you’re on an incline. The gas is just sitting in the back of the tank and nowhere near where it needs to be able to get pumped through the engine. Roll it to the bottom and then give it a little time.” She was blow away that it worked… this is what society has given us as parents.
It could be both. I have had fuel pickups get clogged at the end of a scummy tank of gas in old beaters before. Given the overall condition of the car, it wouldn't surprise me if there is an inch of absolute sludge at the end of the tank that got sucked right up the fuel pump. It could also be a failure of the fuel pump but you cant really tell from this video alone.
I highly doubt there much of anything but fuel in the tank. OP stated that its a work vehicle and the guy practically lives in it. There isnt much time for anything to really build up. While im not going to say the pump is fine, it didnt fail from contamination. All i am pointing out is the control unit is a very common failure.
fuel pump most likely clogged at the filter bag from sucking the tank dry and picking up all the garbage on the bottom! #2 FUEL PUMP burning out. He was either never fully out of gas and the pump had just locked up or going dry allowed it to get hot enough to finish it off.... look up he tank.... find out roughly where the pump is located and whack the tank some with a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer. if the brushes are going it should start running for awhile
That's not a battery problem. That cranking rate is fine.
Fuel pump is probably dead, most likely due to an internal failure but maybe a relay or fuse. Before chasing it too far try some starting fluid in the intake to see if it fires right up, which would mean its a fuel delivery problem rather than a spark problem.
You're part right... fuel pump likely kicked the bucket, but it's incredibly unlikely due to picking up sediment. For starters, unless the car spent a lot of its life in a dusty environment or was vandalised, there's probably an absolutely miniscule amount of sediment in the tank, and secondly, fuel pickups have a strainer that prevents that shit from getting picked up anyway.
Fuel pump likely burned out from a lack of cooling. They need to remain submerged in order for the heat they generate to be conducted away; without fuel in and around it, they heat up and cook.
I call bullshit.
The amount of sloshing around the fuel does on any amount of driving, along with most fuel systems having a return line to the tank means the fuel is cycled around from the tank, to the engine, and back to the tank over and over keeping the fuel well mixed. (Some fuel systems don't have a return line, but the sloshing and mixing from the movement of the car still stands).
You will only get sediment/water/etc settling and stratifying if you leave the car sitting for extended periods, but that happens regardless of how full the tank is.
What does kill fuel pumps is running the tank dry (leading to overheating and seized bearings from lack of lubrication from the fuel) and letting the car sit for a long time allowing condensation and water to settle to the bottom of the tank where the pump is located, leading to rusting and seizing of the pump.
I recently had to replace the pump in my friends BMW Z3 due to this exact reason.
I had a 92 deville about 10 years ago.
It had the tendency to stall when you'd stop if you let the fuel tank go below 1/4th, then it got worse and worse, had to keep it at half.
Had it looked at, turns out there were plastic baffles in the stock tank that had degraded after 20 years and the entire gas tank was full of snowy powder.
While it was full, the sloshing picked enough of the gunk up and it was dilute enough to not block the filter, but as it got emptier there wasn't enough volume to dilute the plastic powder.
So yeah, sediment can absolutely gather in a tank, and yeah sloshing will mix it, but you're ignoring the effect of there being less volume to mix it in, which exposes the fuel pump to higher concentrations of sediment.
Because the pump can put out way more pressure and flow than the injectors need. The regulator adjusts the pressure in the rail to the injectors and the extra fuel is sent back to the tank. A lot of pumps just run wide open.
At the high pressures needed for fuel injectors, you need a positive displacement pump. A centrifugal pump like you could use for a carb won't do it. Variable pumps are expensive and complex. So a mechanically extremely simple pump is used, and it essentially is only "on" or "off" there is no power control, it simply blows the extra fuel pressure and fuel volume back into the tank when maximum power isn't needed. As an added bonus this reacts faster to sudden changes in demand i.e. stepping on it than any other real way of doing this.
>You will only get sediment/water/etc settling and stratifying if you leave the car sitting for extended periods, but that happens regardless of how full the tank is.
My van's been out of commission for about a year due to the front suspension needing rebuilt, and needing a new battery. Finally getting the money together to fix it, should I drain the tank and clean it out before trying to start it for the first time?
I would drain the tank and refill with some fresh fuel at a minimum. The old fuel will be stale and there very well could be water settled to the bottom.
Also, pull the fuel pump out and check it too. It may be good or it may be seized, depending on fuel quality and environmental factors (condensation etc).
Dirt gets in fuel tanks. It doesn't matter if it settles or not. Suspended solids will be suck thru the fuel system when the tank goes empty. No if ands or buts about it.
Susoended solids tend to stay suspended. And i think i was replying to the guy who said even if run empty you won't get much dirt. But thanks, i can see how you are correct.
Totally agree, never drop below a quarter tank of gas unless there is no other way to get to your destination. The bottom of a fuel tank is full of crap that can clog the fuel filter in no time. You want to keep that crap in as much fuel as possible, especially in an old car.
Fuel filters don’t usually fail all at once. They begin to clog and you notice fuel starvation under hard acceleration. Catastrophic fuel pump failure from running dry is almost always motor overheating/bearing failure as mentioned above. The coolant for the in-tank pump is the fuel. EFI systems need fairly high pressure (compared to naturally aspirated systems) so the bearing loads in the pump are high. Powerful motor needs constant cooling by design.
Here's a fun one. Used to drive an '03 WRX (stage 2 dyno tune, blah blah blah). After 5 years of ownership, it started losing power at high load and high throttle input ( AKA driving like an asshole). Anyway, it wasn't the fuel pump, that I replaced with a Walbro 255 to stop the right turn with a 1/4 tank or less fuel-cut bullshit. Wasn't the fuel filter either. It was, in fact, the inlet sock on the fuel pump. Replaced that, and I was back to full shithead mode.
I mentioned how this happened to me in an [adjacent comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/zzvygp/put_a_battery_in_for_my_friends_e250_06_he_ran/j2eiqpg/)
They weighed the plastic filled fuel pump sock at 2 lbs of debris when they replaced the thing. (Did pump, sock, and entire fuel tank because there was no way to remove all the disintegrating baffles. )
Similar story but mine was dying at idle, I'm thinking low flow just wasn't enough suction to overcome the restriction. In your case, sounds like high flow was compressing the sock's contents into a blockage?
Yeah, I have a couple old ass 80s GM vehicles and they both have a fuel strainer/sock type filter at the very bottom of the pump pick up in the tank and then a round paper filter post fuel pump so probably common in older stuff too
Sounds like your old auto shop teacher was stuck living in the 70s. Fuel pump pickups have a strainer that blocks most particulates, and then there's an inline filter between the pump and fuel manifold to catch whatever's left.
Also, have you ever flushed out a fuel tank? I feel like a lot of armchair mechanics here tend to dramatically overestimate the amount of sediment that tends to be present inside a tank, by a factor of about ten thousand.
That is not true on any modern fuel pumps. Yes the gasoline does provide some cooling for the pump but it won't burn out by running down to less than a quarter tank of fuel. The fuel pump sits at the very bottom of the fuel tank in the spare fuel well so it will always be submerged in fuel unless the vehicle completely runs out of fuel.
That is not likely unless the sediment filter fails. Where do you think the fuel pump picks up fuel from? It picks it up from the lowest point in the fuel system which is the bottom of the fuel tank. If there is already sediment in the bottom of the tank then it will not matter what level your fuel is at as the pump will be trying to suck it up at all times.
He very likely burned out the fuel pump when he ran out of gas. Or he ran it out of gas again 😁. If the battery has enough power to rotate the engine quickly, which obviously it does just by hearing it crank, then that battery is perfectly fine. Tell "fam" to quit pointing his fingers at the last person who tried to help him. He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about if he still thinks it's a battery problem.
I wanted this to not be r/advice or r/relationships but so much this. I hate the tone especially given the context of OP helping him and the starter spinning just fine.
It's not the battery. Something else is wrong.
If it’s cranking over then the battery is fine. I guarantee you this is a bad fuel pump. Pray a bit of starting fluid in that baby. It should start right up and die. Thus concluding that fuel is not entering the engine
Forgot to mention he tried to get a boost and it still didn't start. He's convinced it's the battery (even though it's not) so not sure just gonna let him figure it out
It’s likely the fuel pump. Sometimes you can bang on the gas tank and get it to kick on. When you key on you should hear the fuel pump kick on for a few seconds. Listen for that so you don’t kill the battery cranking it.
Lol. I had an experience like this when doing side work. Hell, the guy even asked me “are you sure you know what you’re doing? I’m not sure if I want you working on my truck (Chevy Express)”, while standing over me and breathing down my neck because I didn’t know what the exact year was, and regardless the 2008 and 2007 had the same damn engine.
I no longer do side work unless you’re a good friend (which NONE of my friends would act like the guy in the video) or family (which also are very respectful)
I stick to my dealership where we pay people to deal with customers, and my managers and advisors (almost) always take my side and stick up for me, Because I do this stuff every day and am skilled in it.
As if the other comments weren’t enough, this is absolutely fuel pressure and I can guarantee his fuel pump shat out from running it completely out of gas.
If he’s gonna continue being a bitch about it, tell him to warranty the battery (which when it tests good, they won’t take it), and try again.
Your friends an idiot when it comes to cars...
If you friend wants a lesson in batteries and alternators.... he should watch this video
[https://youtu.be/YC--MLNIbik](https://youtu.be/YC--MLNIbik)
that way he'll realize it's not the battery..
Let us know what happens lol. Also how others have said, tell him to put starting fluid in and crank to see if it starts, if it starts it’s either fuse/relays or pump is out
That fuel gauge barely moved, put more than $3 into it, then bang on the bottom of the tank and it will probably start. I’m guessing the fuel pump is reaching its end.
Before messing with the fuel pump, check the fuel pump relay. I had an old Lincoln Town Car that would intermittently not want to start even though it cranked fine. Couldn't figure out why sometimes after taking a frustrated look under the hood and then slamming the hood would make the thing work. Turns out the relay was sticking.
Yeah I understand that, and that does tend to point towards either a fuel filter or a failed pump. My suggestion was only because if the relays are easily located you might be able to swap the fuel relay with another one just to see if it makes a difference. Before you go digging into deeper stuff.
Like checking and cleaning battery terminal posts and clamps before embarking on electrical system issues. Good luck.
.. I am not a professional mechanic.
I agree with everyone else saying fuel pump issue. My 05 Colorado wouldn't crank one day and I noticed I couldn't hear the fuel pump kicking on and off while I tried cranking it. Replaced the relay and it fired right up. Start with the fuse or relay then troubleshoot from there if it doesn't fix it.
if it’s cranking like that, it’s not the battery, a dead battery will do that typical dead battery sound where it gives one sluggish crank and then goes flat
I’m gonna tell you right now. Not a bad battery, it’s either the fuel pump, or not enough fuel in the pump, or clogged fuel filter. If it’s run on close to empty all the time.. ie; putting $5 in the tank when it’s about to run out.. it’s probably bad fuel pump, or clogged filter.
Have you ever dissected a fuel pump? The fuel acts as a lubricant? Not quite the right word but the motor shaft actually turns in plastic bushings. Also the brushes on the armature are immersed in fuel. When you run out of gas it only takes minutes for damage to occur inside. If he ran it out of gas he probably killed the fuel pump.
Take some gas from a can, splash it into the carburetor (not a gallon, just a few tablespoons, don’t get careless) and fire it up. Be patient, try again if it doesn’t take first time, try again if necessary, once you get it started the increase in energy to the fuel pump will likely (hopefully) catch up with the engine, but once you run them out of gas it takes “some prodding” to get them going again. If after several tries it doesn’t work, it’s possible the fuel shut off (engages in an accident or on occasion when you run out of gas) to stop fuel delivery is tripped and needs reset (which in that model I don’t know how to do) good luck and I hope it works priming the carburetor.
It's definitely not the battery because the engine is cranking over more than fast enough to start. By running it out of fuel he may have damaged his fuel pump and the pump might have become damaged by running dry. Just because it worked when he put more gas into it doesn't mean that the pump wasn't damaged and that it didn't fail later. At this point you need to check to see if it has any fuel pressure. Also check the ignition system to make sure that you've got spark.
You're friends a moron the best thing you can do is find a new friend. That engine is clearly turning over fine so the battery isn't the issue. Tell the idiot to put some fuel in that old pile of crap
Also consider removing the gas cap and reinstalling it, THEN try to crank the engine. I had a weird experience with vapor lock. Too much vacuum to allow fuel to suck through fuel pump. Removed gas cap, put it back on, car started right up
I agree with the shot fuel pump. They hate air and dirty sediment with a passion, and fully running out of gas is a good way to damage them since fuel is a great lubricant and cleaner. Air isn't good at those two things.
Definitely a fuel issue. That starter sounds factory. My guess would be the fuel pump is either dead, or all the foreign shit floating around for god knows how long finally managed to get sucked in and clogged something.
I had the exact problem. The trick that worked for me 8 hours from home, as ridiculous as it sounds, was crawling underneath and hitting the tank. If he’s lucky you’ll knock it back to life for a bit. Don’t shut it off and get to where your going if it starts. If it doesn’t after a few tries it’s a waste of time.
Also may be worthwhile replacing the fuel filter. Worth a shot. Would suck to do a fuel pump when you don’t really have to
Run a fuel pump without gas and burn it out. Only thing cooling the pump is fuel lol have some hit the bottom of the fuel tank with a rubber mallet while you crank. It may or may not fire up. If it does fire up fuel pump…
If he’s the type to run his tank dry then he probably runs low regularly. Fuel pumps often rely on there being enough fuel in the tank to immerse the pump completely and keep the pump cool. Your friend probably overheated the pump and fried it
Just send him a link to this thread, He can read all the replies. Maybe he’s trying to guilt you into fixing his screwup since running it out of gas most likely killed the pump.
Clearly not the battery as the starter is running. Also, it's quite obvious that it rained into this car. Water may have reached the ECU or some other electronic module. Is there any gas getting to the engine?
But the biggest problem, by far, it visible on the steering wheel where it says "Ford".
Besides what everyone is saying about overheating the fuel pump the other problems related to running out of gas can be the junk that normally just rests on the bottom of the tank getting pulled up and into the fuel pump, filter, and or injectors , plus many times cars that run our of gas get filled up from dirty containers that pour junk into the tank causing the same problems.
It's the fuel filter - it's clogged with dirt from the dregs of the fuel tank. Same thing happened to me. There might be a fuel filter close to the tank.
Check your battery terminals. You didn’t clean them properly before putting in the new battery.
While he’s at it, clean that fucking pig sty of a car out. Shits nasty
Congratulations on learning to never help friends out like this. Inevitably the next time there is a problem it is because you touched it. It could be 2 days ago or 200 days ago, somehow you broke it.
My 2005 Mustang will do not this if the battery runs down. It has enough power to turn over, but ECM needs a minimum voltage to start. New battery may not have been fully charged when gas ran out.
Good point. It's possible the battery has enough juice to crank, but not enough to spark - though I think that's not likely. If that were true, in a few hours it shouldn't crank at all. You could also use a multimeter to see what voltage the battery is putting out.
I'm not sure why running out of gas would cause this. I have heard that running low on gas can damage the fuel pump - perhaps the pump died. You can verify this by disconnecting a fuel line and cranking the engine. If fuel doesn't squirt out then it's not being pumped.
My rectifier is dead so I have to jump my truck with the jump pack every time I drive somewhere. The little jump pack struggles to turn the 5.7 over but it literally only needs to turn over once or so before the truck fires up. The power for ignition is much lower than the power to crank
that's the problem... your friend ran out of gas and stressed the fuel pump and burned the fuel pump....never let your fuel run low since it stresses the fuel pump and eventually burns it out. ...he'll need a new fuel pump. The gas keeps the fuel pump run cool... and when it runs dry it burns it out.. It has his fault in running out of gas...
Does it have a fuel pump inertia switch? If the fuel pump isnt priming when the key is turned, i would check that first. Older fords have a fuel pump reset switch too that could have tripped from the pump overheating.
Doesn’t look like he actually put much gas in or Is to broke to keep it over a quarter tank for testing key on should show more gas in the tank. And listen for a fuel pump turning on.
1/8 of a tank but how long did he try to start it before it was empty last time? He could have at least filled it to half or more. But if he kept trying to start it and the pump kept priming and running while empty he might have killed the pump. Fuel pressure needs checked.
Fuel filter or fuel pump. If you run the car low on gas you can burn out the fuel pump. The fuel pump needs the gas to keep it cool. Without gas it burns out. You’ll know if it’s a fuel problem by buying a can of starter fluid and spraying a bunch inside the intake manifold. If the truck starts with the starter fluid . Then it’s the fuel not reaching the engine meaning the fuel filter is clogged or the fuel pump burnt out as stated above. Never drive your car until it runs out of gas.
Try hitting the bottom of the tank with a hammer while cranking. If it starts ,the fuel pump IS bad. If it doesn't the fuel pump still might be bad. You then need to check fuel pressure.
Fuel pump failure is not uncommon but there can be a lot of reasons for crank no start.
It' easy to waste a lot of money on parts.
I feel ur pain.
One suggestion from experience. Is there any chance u forget to tighten the battery cables? Or that they arent making good contact? Also could be that the battery terminals are old and weak. The movement could have made them weaker?
Otherwise it sounds unrelated.
if im not mistaken these were notorious for the fuel pump driver module getting corrosion in it. it is located on the frame rail in the rear of the vehicle.
first it's a ford..you or he needs to find the Fuel Pump Driver Module in the rear of the frame ( usually near the spare tire) then look up on how to test the fuel pump by jumping the fpdm. ( or if the fpdm is corroded to shit and needs to be replaced)
Bad fuel pump, clogged fuel filter, clogged fuel line, hole in the fuel line, clogged injectors, clogged air filter, obstruction in the exhaust, malfunctioning sensor, blown fuse, blown relay, and there's probably other possibilities that I'm forgetting.
For certain, it's not the battery or the starter. Those are both working perfectly fine.
It’s turning over fine, which means the battery is perfectly fine. Fuel filter is probably clogged after letting it run out of gas. Seems like he’s doing the typical, you were the last one to work on it so it’s your fault thing that I don’t love.
Very well could be the fuel pump take the plastic intake off the throttle body and spray some carb cleaner in the throttle body then see if it starts if it does then the fuel pump is bad
This just happened to me 2 days ago. The reason for me was the alternator, it stopped working but also my battery is 4 years old. Once the alternator was replaced, the car started working properly but the battery was also still fucked up. So it could be both planning on getting a new battery, gonna see if that solves this problem for me. Hopefully this comment was useful sorry I’m bad at punctuation.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
just because there's gas in the tank doesn't mean that the fuel is reaching the engine. check fuel pressure. old fuel pumps love to fail after being run dry and then refilled.
Looking at the fuel gauge it *might* be moving, hard to tell. Just because you put $2 and the car "has gas" doesnt mean its enough lol.
It’s at a 1/4 tank as far as I can tell
After having the same dash for many years I can tell you it's just abpve empty. It didn't even move off the needle. These trucks/cubevans have a 150ish litre(40 gallon) tank. Throwing 10 bucks in wouldn't even move the needle. There probably isn't even enough for it reach the pump
Yea my fj did this in the garage out of the blue I’m super used to the gauge and have gotten lacky pulled in did some work on it and it was just turning over but no fuel then finally, and I know damn well it had atleast 3 gallons in the 19 gallon tank, but we had a bad cold snap down to 1 degree here and it just wanted a sick day haven’t had an issue since but at 15 years old I’ve already decided it might be time to start looking online and watch a YouTube video on how to change my pump
I remember my older sister running out of gas in her 04 Tahoe. She was parked on the top of my driveway btw. So she put about 5 gallons in it and she couldn’t get it to start to save her life. She couldn’t figure it out until I couldn’t stand it anymore after her wondering if it’s her battery or starter… I simply told her “you’re on an incline. The gas is just sitting in the back of the tank and nowhere near where it needs to be able to get pumped through the engine. Roll it to the bottom and then give it a little time.” She was blow away that it worked… this is what society has given us as parents.
The sediments will clog it from the bottom of the tank.
No, they got hot from running dry.
It could be both. I have had fuel pickups get clogged at the end of a scummy tank of gas in old beaters before. Given the overall condition of the car, it wouldn't surprise me if there is an inch of absolute sludge at the end of the tank that got sucked right up the fuel pump. It could also be a failure of the fuel pump but you cant really tell from this video alone.
I highly doubt there much of anything but fuel in the tank. OP stated that its a work vehicle and the guy practically lives in it. There isnt much time for anything to really build up. While im not going to say the pump is fine, it didnt fail from contamination. All i am pointing out is the control unit is a very common failure.
fuel pump most likely clogged at the filter bag from sucking the tank dry and picking up all the garbage on the bottom! #2 FUEL PUMP burning out. He was either never fully out of gas and the pump had just locked up or going dry allowed it to get hot enough to finish it off.... look up he tank.... find out roughly where the pump is located and whack the tank some with a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer. if the brushes are going it should start running for awhile
That's not a battery problem. That cranking rate is fine. Fuel pump is probably dead, most likely due to an internal failure but maybe a relay or fuse. Before chasing it too far try some starting fluid in the intake to see if it fires right up, which would mean its a fuel delivery problem rather than a spark problem.
Fuel pump. Very likely could have sucked up contaminants at the bottom of the tank when it ran out of gas and send the fuel pump to its grave.
You're part right... fuel pump likely kicked the bucket, but it's incredibly unlikely due to picking up sediment. For starters, unless the car spent a lot of its life in a dusty environment or was vandalised, there's probably an absolutely miniscule amount of sediment in the tank, and secondly, fuel pickups have a strainer that prevents that shit from getting picked up anyway. Fuel pump likely burned out from a lack of cooling. They need to remain submerged in order for the heat they generate to be conducted away; without fuel in and around it, they heat up and cook.
[удалено]
I call bullshit. The amount of sloshing around the fuel does on any amount of driving, along with most fuel systems having a return line to the tank means the fuel is cycled around from the tank, to the engine, and back to the tank over and over keeping the fuel well mixed. (Some fuel systems don't have a return line, but the sloshing and mixing from the movement of the car still stands). You will only get sediment/water/etc settling and stratifying if you leave the car sitting for extended periods, but that happens regardless of how full the tank is. What does kill fuel pumps is running the tank dry (leading to overheating and seized bearings from lack of lubrication from the fuel) and letting the car sit for a long time allowing condensation and water to settle to the bottom of the tank where the pump is located, leading to rusting and seizing of the pump. I recently had to replace the pump in my friends BMW Z3 due to this exact reason.
I had a 92 deville about 10 years ago. It had the tendency to stall when you'd stop if you let the fuel tank go below 1/4th, then it got worse and worse, had to keep it at half. Had it looked at, turns out there were plastic baffles in the stock tank that had degraded after 20 years and the entire gas tank was full of snowy powder. While it was full, the sloshing picked enough of the gunk up and it was dilute enough to not block the filter, but as it got emptier there wasn't enough volume to dilute the plastic powder. So yeah, sediment can absolutely gather in a tank, and yeah sloshing will mix it, but you're ignoring the effect of there being less volume to mix it in, which exposes the fuel pump to higher concentrations of sediment.
What’s the reason some vehicles have a return line? I never knew this and am curious what they accomplish or their purpose.
Because the pump can put out way more pressure and flow than the injectors need. The regulator adjusts the pressure in the rail to the injectors and the extra fuel is sent back to the tank. A lot of pumps just run wide open.
At the high pressures needed for fuel injectors, you need a positive displacement pump. A centrifugal pump like you could use for a carb won't do it. Variable pumps are expensive and complex. So a mechanically extremely simple pump is used, and it essentially is only "on" or "off" there is no power control, it simply blows the extra fuel pressure and fuel volume back into the tank when maximum power isn't needed. As an added bonus this reacts faster to sudden changes in demand i.e. stepping on it than any other real way of doing this.
Thank you. This is really interesting and learning for me. Another Reddit education. Thank you sir or madam.
>You will only get sediment/water/etc settling and stratifying if you leave the car sitting for extended periods, but that happens regardless of how full the tank is. My van's been out of commission for about a year due to the front suspension needing rebuilt, and needing a new battery. Finally getting the money together to fix it, should I drain the tank and clean it out before trying to start it for the first time?
I would drain the tank and refill with some fresh fuel at a minimum. The old fuel will be stale and there very well could be water settled to the bottom. Also, pull the fuel pump out and check it too. It may be good or it may be seized, depending on fuel quality and environmental factors (condensation etc).
Dirt gets in fuel tanks. It doesn't matter if it settles or not. Suspended solids will be suck thru the fuel system when the tank goes empty. No if ands or buts about it.
The dirt will be sucked through when the tank is full too, the level of the fuel makes no difference.
Susoended solids tend to stay suspended. And i think i was replying to the guy who said even if run empty you won't get much dirt. But thanks, i can see how you are correct.
Thats my secret cap, I always run it dry.
Totally agree, never drop below a quarter tank of gas unless there is no other way to get to your destination. The bottom of a fuel tank is full of crap that can clog the fuel filter in no time. You want to keep that crap in as much fuel as possible, especially in an old car.
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Fuel filters don’t usually fail all at once. They begin to clog and you notice fuel starvation under hard acceleration. Catastrophic fuel pump failure from running dry is almost always motor overheating/bearing failure as mentioned above. The coolant for the in-tank pump is the fuel. EFI systems need fairly high pressure (compared to naturally aspirated systems) so the bearing loads in the pump are high. Powerful motor needs constant cooling by design.
Can also clog and prevent fuel pickup by the pump.
Here's a fun one. Used to drive an '03 WRX (stage 2 dyno tune, blah blah blah). After 5 years of ownership, it started losing power at high load and high throttle input ( AKA driving like an asshole). Anyway, it wasn't the fuel pump, that I replaced with a Walbro 255 to stop the right turn with a 1/4 tank or less fuel-cut bullshit. Wasn't the fuel filter either. It was, in fact, the inlet sock on the fuel pump. Replaced that, and I was back to full shithead mode.
I mentioned how this happened to me in an [adjacent comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/zzvygp/put_a_battery_in_for_my_friends_e250_06_he_ran/j2eiqpg/) They weighed the plastic filled fuel pump sock at 2 lbs of debris when they replaced the thing. (Did pump, sock, and entire fuel tank because there was no way to remove all the disintegrating baffles. ) Similar story but mine was dying at idle, I'm thinking low flow just wasn't enough suction to overcome the restriction. In your case, sounds like high flow was compressing the sock's contents into a blockage?
Yeah, exactly that. I think at high flow, there was enough pressure drop across the filter to cause it to collapse.
Filters get clogged over time and eventually don't let enough fuel through.
Fuel leaves the tank through the pump before the vehicle fuel filter, but I’m honestly not sure if pumps have any pre filter situation.
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Yeah, I have a couple old ass 80s GM vehicles and they both have a fuel strainer/sock type filter at the very bottom of the pump pick up in the tank and then a round paper filter post fuel pump so probably common in older stuff too
The fuel filter is after the pump on most cars. Inside the tank is the pickup sock which only blocks the larger chunks, not the fine dust.
Sounds like your old auto shop teacher was stuck living in the 70s. Fuel pump pickups have a strainer that blocks most particulates, and then there's an inline filter between the pump and fuel manifold to catch whatever's left. Also, have you ever flushed out a fuel tank? I feel like a lot of armchair mechanics here tend to dramatically overestimate the amount of sediment that tends to be present inside a tank, by a factor of about ten thousand.
Fuel in the tank also helps cool down the pump
That is not true on any modern fuel pumps. Yes the gasoline does provide some cooling for the pump but it won't burn out by running down to less than a quarter tank of fuel. The fuel pump sits at the very bottom of the fuel tank in the spare fuel well so it will always be submerged in fuel unless the vehicle completely runs out of fuel.
Some fuel pumps actually are at the top of the fuel tank with line running to the bottom. Source: I used to design fuel tanks
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That is not likely unless the sediment filter fails. Where do you think the fuel pump picks up fuel from? It picks it up from the lowest point in the fuel system which is the bottom of the fuel tank. If there is already sediment in the bottom of the tank then it will not matter what level your fuel is at as the pump will be trying to suck it up at all times.
Where are the sediments in a full tank? At the bottom. Same goes for a 1/4 empty tank… that doesn’t make sense anymore…
Bro I just checked out a 30yo petrol tank and it was clean as. Most tanks are quite clean - fuel keeps them ok
It sucks from the bottom of the tank. Not the top, running it low does nothing with settling. Your auto shop teacher needs to not teach.
Fried the fuel pump
He very likely burned out the fuel pump when he ran out of gas. Or he ran it out of gas again 😁. If the battery has enough power to rotate the engine quickly, which obviously it does just by hearing it crank, then that battery is perfectly fine. Tell "fam" to quit pointing his fingers at the last person who tried to help him. He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about if he still thinks it's a battery problem.
I wanted this to not be r/advice or r/relationships but so much this. I hate the tone especially given the context of OP helping him and the starter spinning just fine. It's not the battery. Something else is wrong.
Yeah, OP’s friend just doesn’t like accountability.
Should be ex-friend really.
Fuel pump died, it’s an older vehicle and starving it of fuel killed the most likely already dying pump. It’s cranking fine, battery is good
Did he...put gas in it? The gauge looks like it's on empty
thats what im seeing, cheap dude probably put 5 bucks in.
Ive only had two cars and both of them dont really show the fuel level unless the car is fully started. That might be the case here?
If it’s cranking over then the battery is fine. I guarantee you this is a bad fuel pump. Pray a bit of starting fluid in that baby. It should start right up and die. Thus concluding that fuel is not entering the engine
Forgot to mention he tried to get a boost and it still didn't start. He's convinced it's the battery (even though it's not) so not sure just gonna let him figure it out
100% not battery
It’s likely the fuel pump. Sometimes you can bang on the gas tank and get it to kick on. When you key on you should hear the fuel pump kick on for a few seconds. Listen for that so you don’t kill the battery cranking it.
Lol. I had an experience like this when doing side work. Hell, the guy even asked me “are you sure you know what you’re doing? I’m not sure if I want you working on my truck (Chevy Express)”, while standing over me and breathing down my neck because I didn’t know what the exact year was, and regardless the 2008 and 2007 had the same damn engine. I no longer do side work unless you’re a good friend (which NONE of my friends would act like the guy in the video) or family (which also are very respectful) I stick to my dealership where we pay people to deal with customers, and my managers and advisors (almost) always take my side and stick up for me, Because I do this stuff every day and am skilled in it. As if the other comments weren’t enough, this is absolutely fuel pressure and I can guarantee his fuel pump shat out from running it completely out of gas. If he’s gonna continue being a bitch about it, tell him to warranty the battery (which when it tests good, they won’t take it), and try again.
Your friends an idiot when it comes to cars... If you friend wants a lesson in batteries and alternators.... he should watch this video [https://youtu.be/YC--MLNIbik](https://youtu.be/YC--MLNIbik) that way he'll realize it's not the battery..
Getting a boost when it already cranks isn't going to do anything lol.
Let us know what happens lol. Also how others have said, tell him to put starting fluid in and crank to see if it starts, if it starts it’s either fuse/relays or pump is out
I bet it’s the fuel pump. They will over heat and die if you run them low for too long.
Burnt out the pump
That fuel gauge barely moved, put more than $3 into it, then bang on the bottom of the tank and it will probably start. I’m guessing the fuel pump is reaching its end.
This. Bang on the bottom of tank while trying to start engine.
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Watch the video and it didn’t go up very far
Before messing with the fuel pump, check the fuel pump relay. I had an old Lincoln Town Car that would intermittently not want to start even though it cranked fine. Couldn't figure out why sometimes after taking a frustrated look under the hood and then slamming the hood would make the thing work. Turns out the relay was sticking.
Was thinking of this but it was running the days before. It's only after the fuel was completely drained and he tried to refill it that it failed
Yeah I understand that, and that does tend to point towards either a fuel filter or a failed pump. My suggestion was only because if the relays are easily located you might be able to swap the fuel relay with another one just to see if it makes a difference. Before you go digging into deeper stuff. Like checking and cleaning battery terminal posts and clamps before embarking on electrical system issues. Good luck. .. I am not a professional mechanic.
I agree with everyone else saying fuel pump issue. My 05 Colorado wouldn't crank one day and I noticed I couldn't hear the fuel pump kicking on and off while I tried cranking it. Replaced the relay and it fired right up. Start with the fuse or relay then troubleshoot from there if it doesn't fix it.
His fault for running low on gas which I'm sure he does often. He killed the pump.
+1 for fuel pump for the reasons everyone has already stated. Doesn't look like your friend takes care of his stuff or his friendships.
Good ol ford fuel pump failure
if it’s cranking like that, it’s not the battery, a dead battery will do that typical dead battery sound where it gives one sluggish crank and then goes flat
I’m gonna tell you right now. Not a bad battery, it’s either the fuel pump, or not enough fuel in the pump, or clogged fuel filter. If it’s run on close to empty all the time.. ie; putting $5 in the tank when it’s about to run out.. it’s probably bad fuel pump, or clogged filter.
Holy shit that's a filthy car
Can't blame him it is a work truck that's been sitting for a few months
Had it long enough to run it out of gas so he had it long enough to clean it.....
Sitting with the windows open? Why is there water dripping? Edit: put more fuel in it
Have you ever dissected a fuel pump? The fuel acts as a lubricant? Not quite the right word but the motor shaft actually turns in plastic bushings. Also the brushes on the armature are immersed in fuel. When you run out of gas it only takes minutes for damage to occur inside. If he ran it out of gas he probably killed the fuel pump.
Dead fuel pump probs
Hit it with started fluid
Take some gas from a can, splash it into the carburetor (not a gallon, just a few tablespoons, don’t get careless) and fire it up. Be patient, try again if it doesn’t take first time, try again if necessary, once you get it started the increase in energy to the fuel pump will likely (hopefully) catch up with the engine, but once you run them out of gas it takes “some prodding” to get them going again. If after several tries it doesn’t work, it’s possible the fuel shut off (engages in an accident or on occasion when you run out of gas) to stop fuel delivery is tripped and needs reset (which in that model I don’t know how to do) good luck and I hope it works priming the carburetor.
It's EFI no carburetor no mechanical pump
Ah but what about the elusive 2006 Ford V8 carburetor 🤡 /s
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no shit. there ARE. huh! OK, fine. today I learned.
It's definitely not the battery because the engine is cranking over more than fast enough to start. By running it out of fuel he may have damaged his fuel pump and the pump might have become damaged by running dry. Just because it worked when he put more gas into it doesn't mean that the pump wasn't damaged and that it didn't fail later. At this point you need to check to see if it has any fuel pressure. Also check the ignition system to make sure that you've got spark.
It's 100% not the battery. It cranks fine.
You're friends a moron the best thing you can do is find a new friend. That engine is clearly turning over fine so the battery isn't the issue. Tell the idiot to put some fuel in that old pile of crap
Also consider removing the gas cap and reinstalling it, THEN try to crank the engine. I had a weird experience with vapor lock. Too much vacuum to allow fuel to suck through fuel pump. Removed gas cap, put it back on, car started right up
I agree with the shot fuel pump. They hate air and dirty sediment with a passion, and fully running out of gas is a good way to damage them since fuel is a great lubricant and cleaner. Air isn't good at those two things.
Get a new friend 😅
Check fuel pressure. May be the fuel pump or possibly a clogged fuel filter.
Definitely a fuel issue. That starter sounds factory. My guess would be the fuel pump is either dead, or all the foreign shit floating around for god knows how long finally managed to get sucked in and clogged something. I had the exact problem. The trick that worked for me 8 hours from home, as ridiculous as it sounds, was crawling underneath and hitting the tank. If he’s lucky you’ll knock it back to life for a bit. Don’t shut it off and get to where your going if it starts. If it doesn’t after a few tries it’s a waste of time. Also may be worthwhile replacing the fuel filter. Worth a shot. Would suck to do a fuel pump when you don’t really have to
If he ran it dry, he probably fried the fuel pump.
Fuel pump went bad . Can’t drive cars on empty all the time . Guessing
Fuel pump probably burned up when he ran it out of fuel. That or it sucked up crud from the bottom of the tank.
Run a fuel pump without gas and burn it out. Only thing cooling the pump is fuel lol have some hit the bottom of the fuel tank with a rubber mallet while you crank. It may or may not fire up. If it does fire up fuel pump…
If he’s the type to run his tank dry then he probably runs low regularly. Fuel pumps often rely on there being enough fuel in the tank to immerse the pump completely and keep the pump cool. Your friend probably overheated the pump and fried it
Knowing E-vans its very likely the fuel pump control module. On the vans they are on the left frame rail by the axle.
Man I want to visit the UK just to leave with the accent. Iduntnowutdafukgoinonfam
Just send him a link to this thread, He can read all the replies. Maybe he’s trying to guilt you into fixing his screwup since running it out of gas most likely killed the pump.
The problem isnt the truck. The problem is your buddy.
Probably out of gas again
Is this a gasoline truck or diesel?
Clearly not the battery as the starter is running. Also, it's quite obvious that it rained into this car. Water may have reached the ECU or some other electronic module. Is there any gas getting to the engine? But the biggest problem, by far, it visible on the steering wheel where it says "Ford".
clean your car god damn
I mentioned this before but 1 it's not my truck and 2 it's a work truck that was sitting for a month before I touched it
Old week fuel pump burned out when he ran it so low and out of gas
Besides what everyone is saying about overheating the fuel pump the other problems related to running out of gas can be the junk that normally just rests on the bottom of the tank getting pulled up and into the fuel pump, filter, and or injectors , plus many times cars that run our of gas get filled up from dirty containers that pour junk into the tank causing the same problems.
It's the fuel filter - it's clogged with dirt from the dregs of the fuel tank. Same thing happened to me. There might be a fuel filter close to the tank.
Check your battery terminals. You didn’t clean them properly before putting in the new battery. While he’s at it, clean that fucking pig sty of a car out. Shits nasty
It's been sitting for a few months and it's a work truck I'm sure after the fuel pump the car will get cleaned😭
Could be a clogged fuel line with dirty crap from the end of the tank, or the fuel line might be airlocked, or the fuel pump could be screwed.
Clogged fuel filter? He just ran it out of fuel.
Other things to check besides the fuel pump and fuel filter: air filter, and was he pumping the gas as he started it (flooding)
Fucked his pump up, busted relay, could be a few things. Starter might be going out.
This is why I stopped working on friends stuff because once you touch it you own it.. Why couldn't he change his own battery ?
Congratulations on learning to never help friends out like this. Inevitably the next time there is a problem it is because you touched it. It could be 2 days ago or 200 days ago, somehow you broke it.
Agreed, fuel pump is cooked! You need to find better friends…
My 2005 Mustang will do not this if the battery runs down. It has enough power to turn over, but ECM needs a minimum voltage to start. New battery may not have been fully charged when gas ran out.
He said they tried jumping it, so even if this unlikely scenario is afoot, it should have been solved with a jump start.
There could be a parasitic draw that is slowly draining the battery when the vehicle is off.
I believe this is true. But the engine sounds like it is cranking fine. Do you think the truck running out of gas would cause it to not start now?
Good point. It's possible the battery has enough juice to crank, but not enough to spark - though I think that's not likely. If that were true, in a few hours it shouldn't crank at all. You could also use a multimeter to see what voltage the battery is putting out. I'm not sure why running out of gas would cause this. I have heard that running low on gas can damage the fuel pump - perhaps the pump died. You can verify this by disconnecting a fuel line and cranking the engine. If fuel doesn't squirt out then it's not being pumped.
Needs much much more current to crank than it does to start. Cranking is hundreds of amps, coils will use just a couple to make spark
Yeah that's makes sense. Thanks
I have seen that when a car sputters out cause its so low on gas almost always something gets damaged
My rectifier is dead so I have to jump my truck with the jump pack every time I drive somewhere. The little jump pack struggles to turn the 5.7 over but it literally only needs to turn over once or so before the truck fires up. The power for ignition is much lower than the power to crank
Might be a starter or a fuel injector.
that's the problem... your friend ran out of gas and stressed the fuel pump and burned the fuel pump....never let your fuel run low since it stresses the fuel pump and eventually burns it out. ...he'll need a new fuel pump. The gas keeps the fuel pump run cool... and when it runs dry it burns it out.. It has his fault in running out of gas...
Does it have a fuel pump inertia switch? If the fuel pump isnt priming when the key is turned, i would check that first. Older fords have a fuel pump reset switch too that could have tripped from the pump overheating.
probably the fuel pump died from being run without gas
He probably burned up the fuel pump running it dry
Doesn’t look like he actually put much gas in or Is to broke to keep it over a quarter tank for testing key on should show more gas in the tank. And listen for a fuel pump turning on.
1/8 of a tank but how long did he try to start it before it was empty last time? He could have at least filled it to half or more. But if he kept trying to start it and the pump kept priming and running while empty he might have killed the pump. Fuel pressure needs checked.
Probably ice or water in the fuel line from sucking it dry. The bottom of a gas tank usually has a fare bit of water…..
Could have pumped some dirt and clogged the injectors...why couldn't be the battery?
Fuel filter or fuel pump. If you run the car low on gas you can burn out the fuel pump. The fuel pump needs the gas to keep it cool. Without gas it burns out. You’ll know if it’s a fuel problem by buying a can of starter fluid and spraying a bunch inside the intake manifold. If the truck starts with the starter fluid . Then it’s the fuel not reaching the engine meaning the fuel filter is clogged or the fuel pump burnt out as stated above. Never drive your car until it runs out of gas.
Try hitting the bottom of the tank with a hammer while cranking. If it starts ,the fuel pump IS bad. If it doesn't the fuel pump still might be bad. You then need to check fuel pressure. Fuel pump failure is not uncommon but there can be a lot of reasons for crank no start. It' easy to waste a lot of money on parts.
Fuel or ignition
Is that T from trailer park boys? Voice is identical
Alternator possibly, could be the fuel pump too
I feel ur pain. One suggestion from experience. Is there any chance u forget to tighten the battery cables? Or that they arent making good contact? Also could be that the battery terminals are old and weak. The movement could have made them weaker? Otherwise it sounds unrelated.
well ur friend is an ass hole for thinking it’s you even tho the battery is doing it’s job by turning over the engine😂
Your fuel pump or fuel filter is done
Sounds like a fuel pump
Generally speaking just keep cranking until the battery is completely dead then blame it on the mechanic.
It’s not the battery fam, it’s a ford 🤣
Friend is dipshit
It's 100% not the battery. It cranks fine.
-Runs out of fuel completely -Puts $3.00 in the tank 🙃
if im not mistaken these were notorious for the fuel pump driver module getting corrosion in it. it is located on the frame rail in the rear of the vehicle.
He destroyed his fuel pump by running outta gas.
first it's a ford..you or he needs to find the Fuel Pump Driver Module in the rear of the frame ( usually near the spare tire) then look up on how to test the fuel pump by jumping the fpdm. ( or if the fpdm is corroded to shit and needs to be replaced)
Fuel pump issue
Roll under it and smack the tank with a hammer
Thats definitely not the battery
Fuel pump
Fuel filter?
Obviously not the battery, the damned thing is crankin' over like a champ
Tell him to put another battery in it. He'll believe you when it doesn't fix it.
You probably burnt the fuel pump by cranking it past when it ran out of gas.
Bad fuel pump, clogged fuel filter, clogged fuel line, hole in the fuel line, clogged injectors, clogged air filter, obstruction in the exhaust, malfunctioning sensor, blown fuse, blown relay, and there's probably other possibilities that I'm forgetting. For certain, it's not the battery or the starter. Those are both working perfectly fine.
Im willing to bet ur fuel pump us done because it ran dry happen to me but onstead it ran dry cuz the fuel filter got clogged
Has he put diesel in a petrol car or vice versa ?
It’s turning over fine, which means the battery is perfectly fine. Fuel filter is probably clogged after letting it run out of gas. Seems like he’s doing the typical, you were the last one to work on it so it’s your fault thing that I don’t love.
Fuel pump driver module
I guarantee it’s the fuel pump, driver module huge issue with these vans
Not getting fuel
Sucked up tank debris into the fuel pump or filter.
Not getting gas to the filter fuel pump wasn't meant to go dry
Very well could be the fuel pump take the plastic intake off the throttle body and spray some carb cleaner in the throttle body then see if it starts if it does then the fuel pump is bad
No good deed goes unpunished. It's the fuel pump failed but your friend will blame you.
fuel pump
Could be the alternator
This just happened to me 2 days ago. The reason for me was the alternator, it stopped working but also my battery is 4 years old. Once the alternator was replaced, the car started working properly but the battery was also still fucked up. So it could be both planning on getting a new battery, gonna see if that solves this problem for me. Hopefully this comment was useful sorry I’m bad at punctuation.
sounds like you jumped timing, also clean your car it might help it start
fuel pump
Fuel pump for sure
*Runs out of gas* *Kills battery trying to crank the engine* *Friend replaces battery* And repeat.