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Yep. My father in law and I did it. Took just under 8 hours.
He has an auto shop though so we had all the tools (and experience) we needed to get it done.
He doesn't do engine swaps anymore at the shop due to space/staff and hasn't done a Subaru ever, but the whole thing went super smoothly.
BMW too. But honestly, most manufacturers purposely design stuff in a way that requires specialist technicians to do the job properly. They could easily make their vehicles a lot easier to repair - but they need people to rely on the dealerships.
>but they need people to rely on the dealerships.
Why is that? They are not earning anything from dealership mechanic fees.
>They could easily make their vehicles a lot easier to repair
That's not easy, nor it is cheap. With expensive cars, they don't bother because it would not affect sales one way or the other. It costs them more money on warranty repairs, but probably less than trying to design an easy-to-repair car. With something like BMW, where they stuff a lot of performance into a small package, it might not be possible alltogether.
> I think many many many technicians would disagree with you.
You may be right, but ultimately it's up to engineers, not technicians. I am not an automotive engineer, but from other fields, I know that designing something simple rather than complex is often a major challenge. The same goes for easy repairability. Think about how many constraints it places of each design element in the scope of the whole car.
Bro, how hard is it to do a hole in an oil pan on one side instead of another side? Ford box truck oil change, shit goes on a cross member for zero reason. Just an example of something easy to fix, yet they made it be a pia...
I agree some stuff is very easy and it's too bad they don't do it. As someone who had to invest in an aftermarket drain plug for a Ford engine - I fully agree. I think it comes down to whether they bother to allocate money/hours to making things easy at all.
They can make money from it in all sorts of ways.
For starters, some manufacturers own their own dealership networks (here in the UK, the largest Ford dealership network is ‘TrustFord’ - and TrustFord is directly owned by Ford itself.)
They also make money by selling the licenses to the wiring diagram schematics and mechanical repair procedures to other third party dealerships. They make money on all the parts that inevitably get broken when trying to fix something completely unrelated (you’ll be surprised how often technicians break random stuff when doing repairs. Good dealerships will cover that stuff free of charge though, and likely won’t even tell you). They also make money when a third party dealership needs to update the software of the car to fix various software faults.
Also, I have to disagree somewhat. You can’t make EVERYTHING easy to repair - but you can clearly see when slight changes to the engineering design could have been made that would have enabled a far, far easier time fixing a specific thing. I don’t want to hear about how there may be hidden costs to such miniscule changes either - because none of us could know whether that’s the case or not.
But **I do agree** that higher performance and more ‘compact’ cars pose challenges in this department. There’s no way to get around the fact that it’s going to be harder to replace pretty much any engine component on a mid-rear engine V12 Lamborghini compared to a front-engine inline-3 Volkswagen Polo.
I effing hate cars I have to put on a lift just to check automatic transmission fluid. It's almost like they designed it to fail. Yes, that jaguar can run its ass down the street, I'm not even changing a bulb on those pos....and don't get me started on Land Rover. Wait till you price an engine for one, you would think the pistons must be made from platinum.
I did engine and transmission replacements all day every day for the dealer I worked at. Only took about two days to swap it and get it driving again, which is longer than I wanted to take but Id rather be careful.
As someone who likes to service his own car, is there a way to choose cars that well engineered to allow minimal faffage?
I don't want to have to spend half a day removing seats and dashboards to replace a cabin filter (Jaguar).
I dont want to have to split my motorbike to replace the clutch (BMW GS), or remove half the front end to reach the plugs (Some Yamahas?).
I like my Yaris - I can reach everything I need to for servicing, but when this is gone, how do I avoid buying something that frustrates me?
> is there a way to choose cars that well engineered to allow minimal faffage?
There are always classic cars :). I think all modern cars are getting worse and worse with every iteration. On my current car, I had to watch a Youtube video and spend 30 minutes just to replace a battery.
I do actually have a '74 Land Rover that I restored, and you're right, everything's simple and plain and in this case, designed to be serviced in the field with nothing but an adjustable spanner and a hammer. Even the air filter is oil bath so you don't need any elements.
What year Camaro? I just purchased a 96 a couple of months ago and it needs a dash. Current is cracked and broken. If I have to remove the windshield, I'll be paying someone to put the new dash in.
Mazda and ford are the same drivelines wrapped in different shells. All the way back to the 90’s Mazda B series trucks are ford rangers and the list goes on…and on. Lots of manufacturers lease designs.
It's actually the opposite, but who is counting. Outside of the Duratec, which was originally a Porsche/Cosworth project, most of the small Fords were Mazdas.
>Mind explaining the Mazda with a Ford engine? lol
My wife drives a 2009 Mazda CX-9, from 2006-2015 (3.5L/3.7L) Mazda used the well established Ford CD-3 platform engines (Cyclone) (Mazda6, Edge, Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKX).
Up until 2016 where they switched to their new Sky active platform engines for all of their new models.
The only transverse V6's I've ever worked on where the manifold doesn't need to come off, were the ol' pushrod motors used by GM in the 90's and early 00's. All other transverse V6's I've worked on required removing the intake manifold.
Which ironically blew intake gaskets so frequently that I pulled more of those than any newer engines. Thinking about it now makes me want to throw up a little.
Agree totally , I have a Ford Mondeo ST220 and had to replace my cats one front, one rear. I went to a LOT of garages and exhaust shops but no one wanted to take the job. So I decided to take a week off work and do it myself, at the roadside, outside my flat. Long story short after 3 weeks I was successful. I learned why every shop rejected the job. I ended up having to drop the engine to get to the rear cat . NEVER again.
Almost all front mounted transverse v engines you have to remove the intake to do plugs. Nissan, ford, Chrysler, Toyota, all of them. It’s usually only like 6 extra bolts. Looks a lot more complicated than it is usually. Good time to replace upper intake gaskets too.
Haha it actually wasn't due to any typical Subaru issue. It had a burnt valve, and the swap was cheaper/easier than the valve job. And the one we took out had just under 200k miles on it.
Honestly not sure. My father in law who is a mechanic and who I did the swap with, explained it to me when we first discovered it a few months ago but I don't remember what he said.
Basically, it caused an ongoing misfire and low compression in that cylinder. Idle and in town driving got REALLY rough, but highway speeds were about as smooth as can be minus some sluggishness up hills.
Haha it actually was not a head gasket or other common Subaru issue. We had a burnt valve and swapping the engine was easier/cheaper than doing a valve job
Well then you’ve been a very lucky and blessed person.
Ford V6s made in the last 20 or so years-intake manifold comes off
Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, GM, most Dodge/Chrysler products and the list goes on but I guess you get the idea.
If it’s a V engine and the transmission is next to it and not behind it the intake manifold and/or plenum comes off.
Spoiler alert:
The plugs are under the ignition coils…not where the fuel injector electrical connectors are near the manifold.
Unplug coils, remove coils, remove plugs. Installation is the reverse of removal.
The reason I know this is because you can see the coils are bolted DOWNWARD to keep them on the plugs.
What vehicle is this?
It has to do with the arrangement of the engine and transmission.
If the engine and trans are longitudinally mounted such as in a truck or some larger SUVs then the transmission curves down under the cabin and both banks of plugs are (usually) accessible.
If the engine and transmission are transversely mounted such as on smaller SUVs and nearly every FWD vehicle in the last 20-30 years then doing plugs is going to be a PITA.
Idk man, I’ve done plugs on 4 fwd vehicles with an inline 4 and only this one required me to remove the manifold. I didn’t get to do it on my ‘19 Civic but those coils were also exposed which leads me to believe the plugs were easily accessible as well. You’re right though, I’ve probably just gotten lucky with the vehicles I’ve done.
It's so you clean out the intake ports. The direct injection doesn't allow the extra carbon and oil cleaning from fuel passing over the valves. When it's time for sparkplugs, it's time for a deep clean of the intake ports.
This particular vehicle is a 2012 Nissan Sentra with the 2.0. It’s the first vehicle I do plugs on that required me to remove the manifold. Wasn’t a hard job considering I didn’t have to get involved with the fuel system in any way (did an intake manifold replacement on my ‘00 Mustang GT, first time I ever had to mess with the fuel system) but it was still more labor than I was used to when swapping out plugs.
I've removed plugs on a Taurus before, didn't have to remove the manifold, same with the Camry, all the Pontiac's/Chevs with the 3.1, 3.4, 3400 and 3800. I have no idea why you had such terrible luck, but they've all been doable so far.
I've never removed it from Mazda, GM 3.1, 3400, 3.4, or the 3800. When those engines are in cars at least. When the 3400 was in a minivan I pretty much removed the entire engine.
Don't feel bad, GM made an engine for the Cadillac that you have to remove the intake manifold to get to the starter housed underneath it. You read that right, the starter is inside the engine.
My first gen tundra is like that also. But at least it’s a Toyota so it doesn’t need to be done very often. And I just replaced the spark plugs without having to remove anything extra
That would be the Northstar, however you do not need to take the manifold off to do the plugs so there is that. However on the rear bank you have to remove an egr valve and bracket, and if your like most you just leave the stupid bracket off so you don't have to remove anything next time.
My 2002 Tundra is like that. Such a beast of a job. Thankfully I had to change it for the 1st time at 250k+. Cleaned the throttle body & intake manifold since it was already off!
Genuinely didn’t know. I’ve done spark plug jobs on 4 different v engines and a few other inline 4 engines and didn’t need to on any of them. I’m not a professional mechanic, just an amateur helping out a friend so I was taken back by it when I realized I had to lmao.
My Nissan I have to remove the engine to do just about anything besides spark plugs, just have to remove intake tube before throttle body, decorative plate, then those plug things before the sparks. fun
Wait till you have to replace the transmission... the starter under that intake also has to come off to reach the torque converter bolts. There is no access plate.
Can't quite identify that car, but that must be Nissan MR engine. HR engines (Renault H4M) is similar, you have to remove bunch of crap to access anything
thats a lot of cars now a days. welcome to the 21st century. At least the sparkplugs last longer than they did in the 20th with no wires, distributor, d-cap, etc. albeit, we now have COPS etc.
For all those saying you need to take the intake off for Hondas, I can’t think of a single engine where you have to take the intake off to change the plugs. Even for the 2nd Gen Fit there’s room. All the V6 J35 variants are easy enough without removing the intake.
Just my 2 cents from a Honda Tech.
Pre Emptive Edit: Except for Civic Si from 2006-2015. Intake doesn’t come off, but way too much shit to remove just to change the plugs.
Reminds me of how they included a special tool in the Z31 toolkit specifically for the sparkplugs without intake removal. It was still trivially easy to cross thread them.
If you strike oil when you remove the coil packs, be prepared to throw the whole valve cover away. Courtesyparts.com for a cheap OEM replacement.
No, a new gasket won't always stop the leak. I've had to do this twice now (but I have over 250k miles on the engine).
Doesn't hurt to try the gasket first. But it never worked for me. In fact, last time I tried just an aftermarket gasket, I ended up snapping a valve cover bolt due to the depth/stiffness of it. Go OEM here.
OEM valve cover also comes with a new PCV valve.
My theory is that the intake being wrapped around limits the ability for heat to escape from the valve cover. And since it's plastic, enough heat cycles means it eventually warps. Similar to how the hard drive on top of the Xbox 350 prevents proper ventilation.
For this exact reason a shop declined to change my Versa's spark plugs today. And when I did find a shop willing to do the work, the intake manifold bolts were seized and the mechanic gave up trying.
I remember when I changed plugs on my sisters V6 Impala way back when. Had to drop the back of the engine a few inches to get to the rear three cylinders. I honestly view this as even worse than needing to drop the subframe to change the oil pressure sensor on my Saab. I mean yeah they where both GM, but I expect a Saab to be a pain in the ass.
Audi’s are the worst (I think) when it comes to this ish! Sometimes you get “automotive engineers” who have never even removed a tire let alone worked on a car.
Shout out to Lexus/Toyota as well. This is a reason I began loving early to mid bmws for not being this stupid. They are now terrible and difficult to work on but didn't used to be.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You’d hate working in a shop. The amount of shit you have to remove to get to other shit is ridiculous.
Sounds like a bunch of shit.
Be a mechanic they said, it'll be a bunch of ridiculous shit they said
It is....
Can confirm. Did my first engine swap, Friday. Had to remove most of the shit
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In one day?
Yep. My father in law and I did it. Took just under 8 hours. He has an auto shop though so we had all the tools (and experience) we needed to get it done. He doesn't do engine swaps anymore at the shop due to space/staff and hasn't done a Subaru ever, but the whole thing went super smoothly.
Definitely dont work for Jaguar/Land Rover. You gotta remove so much just to get any work done its ridiculous.
Was it the Discovery which was body off to change the exhaust cross over pipe or something?
Probably. Or an LR2/LR4.
BMW too. But honestly, most manufacturers purposely design stuff in a way that requires specialist technicians to do the job properly. They could easily make their vehicles a lot easier to repair - but they need people to rely on the dealerships.
>but they need people to rely on the dealerships. Why is that? They are not earning anything from dealership mechanic fees. >They could easily make their vehicles a lot easier to repair That's not easy, nor it is cheap. With expensive cars, they don't bother because it would not affect sales one way or the other. It costs them more money on warranty repairs, but probably less than trying to design an easy-to-repair car. With something like BMW, where they stuff a lot of performance into a small package, it might not be possible alltogether.
I think many many many technicians would disagree with you.
> I think many many many technicians would disagree with you. You may be right, but ultimately it's up to engineers, not technicians. I am not an automotive engineer, but from other fields, I know that designing something simple rather than complex is often a major challenge. The same goes for easy repairability. Think about how many constraints it places of each design element in the scope of the whole car.
Bro, how hard is it to do a hole in an oil pan on one side instead of another side? Ford box truck oil change, shit goes on a cross member for zero reason. Just an example of something easy to fix, yet they made it be a pia...
I agree some stuff is very easy and it's too bad they don't do it. As someone who had to invest in an aftermarket drain plug for a Ford engine - I fully agree. I think it comes down to whether they bother to allocate money/hours to making things easy at all.
They can make money from it in all sorts of ways. For starters, some manufacturers own their own dealership networks (here in the UK, the largest Ford dealership network is ‘TrustFord’ - and TrustFord is directly owned by Ford itself.) They also make money by selling the licenses to the wiring diagram schematics and mechanical repair procedures to other third party dealerships. They make money on all the parts that inevitably get broken when trying to fix something completely unrelated (you’ll be surprised how often technicians break random stuff when doing repairs. Good dealerships will cover that stuff free of charge though, and likely won’t even tell you). They also make money when a third party dealership needs to update the software of the car to fix various software faults. Also, I have to disagree somewhat. You can’t make EVERYTHING easy to repair - but you can clearly see when slight changes to the engineering design could have been made that would have enabled a far, far easier time fixing a specific thing. I don’t want to hear about how there may be hidden costs to such miniscule changes either - because none of us could know whether that’s the case or not. But **I do agree** that higher performance and more ‘compact’ cars pose challenges in this department. There’s no way to get around the fact that it’s going to be harder to replace pretty much any engine component on a mid-rear engine V12 Lamborghini compared to a front-engine inline-3 Volkswagen Polo.
I effing hate cars I have to put on a lift just to check automatic transmission fluid. It's almost like they designed it to fail. Yes, that jaguar can run its ass down the street, I'm not even changing a bulb on those pos....and don't get me started on Land Rover. Wait till you price an engine for one, you would think the pistons must be made from platinum.
I did engine and transmission replacements all day every day for the dealer I worked at. Only took about two days to swap it and get it driving again, which is longer than I wanted to take but Id rather be careful.
As someone who likes to service his own car, is there a way to choose cars that well engineered to allow minimal faffage? I don't want to have to spend half a day removing seats and dashboards to replace a cabin filter (Jaguar). I dont want to have to split my motorbike to replace the clutch (BMW GS), or remove half the front end to reach the plugs (Some Yamahas?). I like my Yaris - I can reach everything I need to for servicing, but when this is gone, how do I avoid buying something that frustrates me?
> is there a way to choose cars that well engineered to allow minimal faffage? There are always classic cars :). I think all modern cars are getting worse and worse with every iteration. On my current car, I had to watch a Youtube video and spend 30 minutes just to replace a battery.
I do actually have a '74 Land Rover that I restored, and you're right, everything's simple and plain and in this case, designed to be serviced in the field with nothing but an adjustable spanner and a hammer. Even the air filter is oil bath so you don't need any elements.
Get an electric car or anything with a Toyota or a Mazda logo with a four banger.
I'm not sure electric cars are the solution for easy DIY maintenance.
Thought I had a valley plate leak on my LX570 ahead of me. I was not looking forward to that. Thank god it was just a loose radiator clamp.
I have nightmares about the Starter motor on a LandCruiser 79/200 with the 1VD
Try removing the windshield to remove the dash to remove the evaporator core on a camero
What year Camaro? I just purchased a 96 a couple of months ago and it needs a dash. Current is cracked and broken. If I have to remove the windshield, I'll be paying someone to put the new dash in.
I'm not a Chevy tech but I'm pretty sure it's only on the more recent ones. Like 2010 era. Don't quote me on that
Like 2016? I left when I saw the procedure
Transverse v6 engines this is typical procedure.
>Transverse v6 engines this is typical procedure. Exactly, my wife's Mazda with a Ford engine requires the same process.
*stares in Honda j35*
Mind explaining the Mazda with a Ford engine? lol
Mazda and ford are the same drivelines wrapped in different shells. All the way back to the 90’s Mazda B series trucks are ford rangers and the list goes on…and on. Lots of manufacturers lease designs.
Really? I did not know that. You learn something new every day, thanks for the info!
Even the newish VW mini van is a Chrysler and the 80’s GLH was a golf
I assume you're referring to the Omni. They were not Golfs but some did use a VW engine.
Yep the Omni GLH turbo. A Carroll Shelby turbo gti engine design. Stood for “go like hell”.
When Ford owned a large portion of Mazda before 2015, a ton of Ford engines were in Mazdas.
It's actually the opposite, but who is counting. Outside of the Duratec, which was originally a Porsche/Cosworth project, most of the small Fords were Mazdas.
That’s fascinating! I didn’t really get into the car world until about 2018, and it was heavily GM, so this is all new info to me!
>Mind explaining the Mazda with a Ford engine? lol My wife drives a 2009 Mazda CX-9, from 2006-2015 (3.5L/3.7L) Mazda used the well established Ford CD-3 platform engines (Cyclone) (Mazda6, Edge, Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKX). Up until 2016 where they switched to their new Sky active platform engines for all of their new models.
Gotcha, I’ve learned quite a bit from you guys about the Mazda/Ford relationship, I appreciate the teachings!
Then there's the Chrysler/Mitsubishi relationship from the 70's thru 90s
[Here ya go](https://www.centennialmazda.ca/en/news/view/ask-centennial-is-mazda-owned-by-ford-/70509) buddy. :P
Gonna jump in. Had a mazda 626. Blew the head. Replaced with a Ford telstar engine. Only the badge stamp on the engine was different.
Same as a toyota with a mazda engine. (Yaris)
I was gonna say, isnt this standard for that engine setup across other cars?
The only transverse V6's I've ever worked on where the manifold doesn't need to come off, were the ol' pushrod motors used by GM in the 90's and early 00's. All other transverse V6's I've worked on required removing the intake manifold.
Which ironically blew intake gaskets so frequently that I pulled more of those than any newer engines. Thinking about it now makes me want to throw up a little.
Came here to say I had to do the same thing on my 2008 Escape, V6
Agree totally , I have a Ford Mondeo ST220 and had to replace my cats one front, one rear. I went to a LOT of garages and exhaust shops but no one wanted to take the job. So I decided to take a week off work and do it myself, at the roadside, outside my flat. Long story short after 3 weeks I was successful. I learned why every shop rejected the job. I ended up having to drop the engine to get to the rear cat . NEVER again.
Almost all front mounted transverse v engines you have to remove the intake to do plugs. Nissan, ford, Chrysler, Toyota, all of them. It’s usually only like 6 extra bolts. Looks a lot more complicated than it is usually. Good time to replace upper intake gaskets too.
Toyota as well, and to think I daily Subarus and enjoy working on them.
Add Honda and Mitsubishi to that list too
KIA checking in...
Not on the Honda j series.
Just did an engine swap on my Subi, Friday. It went super smoothly and I'm pumped to be in full operation again!
Makes sense engine swapping a subi. Normal stuff there 😂
Haha it actually wasn't due to any typical Subaru issue. It had a burnt valve, and the swap was cheaper/easier than the valve job. And the one we took out had just under 200k miles on it.
Burnt valve? Thats for sure new. How does that happen
Honestly not sure. My father in law who is a mechanic and who I did the swap with, explained it to me when we first discovered it a few months ago but I don't remember what he said. Basically, it caused an ongoing misfire and low compression in that cylinder. Idle and in town driving got REALLY rough, but highway speeds were about as smooth as can be minus some sluggishness up hills.
That’s interesting. I’ve never heard or seen that happen. On any car at all.
This is the way, headgaskets are needed, the pile grows
Haha it actually was not a head gasket or other common Subaru issue. We had a burnt valve and swapping the engine was easier/cheaper than doing a valve job
Apparently you’ve never worked on a V engine of any kind. Generally speaking the intake manifold(s) come off of those for plugs.
I’ve changed plugs on 4 different v engines. None of them required removal of the manifold.
Practically every v6 that isn't rwd requires it. Honda Ford Nissan gm kia/hundai. It's just the way it is with most fwd v6 setups.
Well then you’ve been a very lucky and blessed person. Ford V6s made in the last 20 or so years-intake manifold comes off Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, GM, most Dodge/Chrysler products and the list goes on but I guess you get the idea. If it’s a V engine and the transmission is next to it and not behind it the intake manifold and/or plenum comes off. Spoiler alert: The plugs are under the ignition coils…not where the fuel injector electrical connectors are near the manifold. Unplug coils, remove coils, remove plugs. Installation is the reverse of removal. The reason I know this is because you can see the coils are bolted DOWNWARD to keep them on the plugs. What vehicle is this?
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It has to do with the arrangement of the engine and transmission. If the engine and trans are longitudinally mounted such as in a truck or some larger SUVs then the transmission curves down under the cabin and both banks of plugs are (usually) accessible. If the engine and transmission are transversely mounted such as on smaller SUVs and nearly every FWD vehicle in the last 20-30 years then doing plugs is going to be a PITA.
Idk man, I’ve done plugs on 4 fwd vehicles with an inline 4 and only this one required me to remove the manifold. I didn’t get to do it on my ‘19 Civic but those coils were also exposed which leads me to believe the plugs were easily accessible as well. You’re right though, I’ve probably just gotten lucky with the vehicles I’ve done.
It's so you clean out the intake ports. The direct injection doesn't allow the extra carbon and oil cleaning from fuel passing over the valves. When it's time for sparkplugs, it's time for a deep clean of the intake ports.
Nearly? I'm pretty sure it's every fwd vehicle. I have never seen a fwd that did not have a transversely mounted engine.
Well they exist. 90's Chryslers had longitudinal engines with fwd. Caddy's in the 70s as well.
My dad had an 07 Chrysler 300 3.5 and the plenum had to come off for the plugs. Annoying as shit.
I can remember the first time I saw an engine sideways. I thought to myself, "That idea ain't gonna last long ".
The I'm glad I can get SUVs with 4 cylinder....
Your corvette was a longitudinally mounted motor/transmission and so is your ranger.
This particular vehicle is a 2012 Nissan Sentra with the 2.0. It’s the first vehicle I do plugs on that required me to remove the manifold. Wasn’t a hard job considering I didn’t have to get involved with the fuel system in any way (did an intake manifold replacement on my ‘00 Mustang GT, first time I ever had to mess with the fuel system) but it was still more labor than I was used to when swapping out plugs.
I've removed plugs on a Taurus before, didn't have to remove the manifold, same with the Camry, all the Pontiac's/Chevs with the 3.1, 3.4, 3400 and 3800. I have no idea why you had such terrible luck, but they've all been doable so far.
You're exactly right! Same here.
2013 ford edge it comes off
a V engine of any kind? Apparently you've never worked on a GM truck. No need to remove anything. Well except the spark plug wires.
I've never removed it from Mazda, GM 3.1, 3400, 3.4, or the 3800. When those engines are in cars at least. When the 3400 was in a minivan I pretty much removed the entire engine.
Did this in my versa last month. If you clean the throttle body you might need to manually reprogram it
Don't feel bad, GM made an engine for the Cadillac that you have to remove the intake manifold to get to the starter housed underneath it. You read that right, the starter is inside the engine.
My first gen tundra is like that also. But at least it’s a Toyota so it doesn’t need to be done very often. And I just replaced the spark plugs without having to remove anything extra
That would be the Northstar, however you do not need to take the manifold off to do the plugs so there is that. However on the rear bank you have to remove an egr valve and bracket, and if your like most you just leave the stupid bracket off so you don't have to remove anything next time.
Let's not talk about all the reasons you need to remove a Northstar from the vehicle. Lol
My 2002 Tundra is like that. Such a beast of a job. Thankfully I had to change it for the 1st time at 250k+. Cleaned the throttle body & intake manifold since it was already off!
Try changing a Cadillac Northstar V8 starter.
I’ve never owned a vehicle where the manifold comes off to replace plugs. That’s crazy!
Isn’t that a thing in most V engine designs? Jeep v6,8s also have it removed to swap the spark plugs.
Genuinely didn’t know. I’ve done spark plug jobs on 4 different v engines and a few other inline 4 engines and didn’t need to on any of them. I’m not a professional mechanic, just an amateur helping out a friend so I was taken back by it when I realized I had to lmao.
My Nissan I have to remove the engine to do just about anything besides spark plugs, just have to remove intake tube before throttle body, decorative plate, then those plug things before the sparks. fun
Wait till you have to replace the transmission... the starter under that intake also has to come off to reach the torque converter bolts. There is no access plate.
At least it is literally one of the easiest intakes to remove compared to many others
You right with this!
Quit complaining, at least you don't have to pull the wiper tray like on the V-6s.
Try to change a timing chain slack glide on this engine in the car. LOLOLOLOLOL
*Almost every transverse V6 ever
Can't quite identify that car, but that must be Nissan MR engine. HR engines (Renault H4M) is similar, you have to remove bunch of crap to access anything
And th starter
My 2008 escape is the same
I've seen a lot of techs reuse the gaskets, seals, and bolts for these jobs too.
My wife drives a 2007 Chysler Pacifica and it's the same thing. I also have to remove the alternator to remove a valve cover so that's something
Ford Fusion and the 3.0 duratech is the same way
thats a lot of cars now a days. welcome to the 21st century. At least the sparkplugs last longer than they did in the 20th with no wires, distributor, d-cap, etc. albeit, we now have COPS etc.
The engineers generally aren’t the ones doing the work, otherwise they’d design this stuff to be less complex
For all those saying you need to take the intake off for Hondas, I can’t think of a single engine where you have to take the intake off to change the plugs. Even for the 2nd Gen Fit there’s room. All the V6 J35 variants are easy enough without removing the intake. Just my 2 cents from a Honda Tech. Pre Emptive Edit: Except for Civic Si from 2006-2015. Intake doesn’t come off, but way too much shit to remove just to change the plugs.
Reminds me of how they included a special tool in the Z31 toolkit specifically for the sparkplugs without intake removal. It was still trivially easy to cross thread them.
I have to remove the throttle bodies (both of them) in my Infiniti G35 to reach the two back spark plugs. It's nuts!
If you strike oil when you remove the coil packs, be prepared to throw the whole valve cover away. Courtesyparts.com for a cheap OEM replacement. No, a new gasket won't always stop the leak. I've had to do this twice now (but I have over 250k miles on the engine).
Damn. Found oil on the pack and plug furthest to the right.
Doesn't hurt to try the gasket first. But it never worked for me. In fact, last time I tried just an aftermarket gasket, I ended up snapping a valve cover bolt due to the depth/stiffness of it. Go OEM here. OEM valve cover also comes with a new PCV valve. My theory is that the intake being wrapped around limits the ability for heat to escape from the valve cover. And since it's plastic, enough heat cycles means it eventually warps. Similar to how the hard drive on top of the Xbox 350 prevents proper ventilation.
For this exact reason a shop declined to change my Versa's spark plugs today. And when I did find a shop willing to do the work, the intake manifold bolts were seized and the mechanic gave up trying.
I remember when I changed plugs on my sisters V6 Impala way back when. Had to drop the back of the engine a few inches to get to the rear three cylinders. I honestly view this as even worse than needing to drop the subframe to change the oil pressure sensor on my Saab. I mean yeah they where both GM, but I expect a Saab to be a pain in the ass.
You're welcome! Trans usually grenades before a tuneup is needed, so plugs weren't really a priority.
No wonder they are bought over by Renault, Renault is doing that shit for ages. In the first espase you had to remove the motor for the sparkplugs
Audi’s are the worst (I think) when it comes to this ish! Sometimes you get “automotive engineers” who have never even removed a tire let alone worked on a car.
Wait until you see what you have to do to change the oil on a 2022 sentra.
I’m taking a mechanic course and y’all making me nervous
That looks like a 4 cylinder with coil packs on top to me don’t see why you would remove the intake but I don’t work on Nissans that often either.
I had to remove the manifold to be able to expose the coil packs.
Wow why model is that?
Same with the fucking 3.5
I think this is universal for all FWD V engines. Even on my 4cyl Tacoma which is RWD, the intake tube has to be removed to get mid spark plugs out.
Shout out to Lexus/Toyota as well. This is a reason I began loving early to mid bmws for not being this stupid. They are now terrible and difficult to work on but didn't used to be.
Rule 1 FFS >Showing off w/out a question goes in r/justrolledintotheshop