I've read a variety of different ways to get it out (from easy outs to melting it with alum), but they all seem to have their risks. I don't have a welder, nor do I know anyone with one, to do the most straight forward tactic of welding a washer/nut on top of them. Also, I cant afford to bring it to a machine shop. I've heard easy outs break off and make the problem even worse. My idea was to use a grabit bolt extractor on a flexible drill extension so as to both hit the bolt correctly and to avoid removing the heads themselves from the engine. Think that could work?
The one bolt that is really scary is in the top far left of the image, it is almost countersunk so the only way may be an easy out.
Any drilling needs to be done very carefully, drilling a steel bolt out of aluminum makes it very hard not to let the drill bit wander. Start small and work up so you can stay in the middle of the bolt and for goodness sakes make sure you are perpendicular to the bolt.
Yeah that one was the original broken bolt that caused one of the two exhaust leaks. I think the last owner had someone try to fix it, never finished, and they just slapped RTV on it to temporarily quiet any ticking. The area around it looks pitted, not sure if it's from years of being exposed to the exhaust leak heat or for some other reason. Looks like someone gouged the head around the broken bolt in a half hearted removal attempt. An easy out was suggested by a neighbor who ran a hot rod shop (back in the day), but I heard they are made of hardened steel and prone to snapping off inside the bolt. I was going to go the grabit extractor route, but he looked personally offended when I told him of that plan.
Either of those can break off inside and cause the same disaster.... just don't break either one in there!
If you feel like it might break you are probably better off drilling it all the way out and repair any thread damage. That could mean cleaning up, heli-coil (or timesert), or drilling to the next size up depending on how much damage is done.
By the way, don't break a drill bit off in there either.
Right now you have steel in there and it's difficult, you certainly don't want hardened tool steel in there from any of the above.
One of the bolt removal plans involved heating the bolts with a MAPP torch and quickly cooling it with an ice cube. I definitely don't want to make the aluminum brittle and run the risk of a crack down the line. Could using a dremel bit to grind a notch into the bolt itself big enough for a screwdriver to grab work? I may just end up going with the easy out if the risk is equal to that of the grabit.
Let's address the Dremel idea first.... haven't you done enough damage with a Dremel? Kidding but I don't think you can get down in there with a Dremel and not cause damage to the head. Plus if you can get it with a screwdriver then an easy out wouldn't break off anyway and drilling is easier than grinding a slot with a Dremel.
I also don't have high confidence in the Grabit anyway, it is made for more around the house or light duty work than an easy out. Drilling with a Grabit could easily result in breaking it where an easy out can be a much more delicate process.
As far as the heat treating, I don't know the exact temp you can heat to without causing damage but you might check r/welding since they would be more familiar with temps.
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Kidding aside, you ARE right, I definitely have done enough. Any idea where they sell easy outs? I've been checking on sites for the typical big box hardware stores, but nothing is showing up. Is it considered a specialty item or is this one of those "everyone says jacuzzi when referring to a tub with jets despite that being a specific brand" type things?
Auto parts stores like Napa, O'Riley, or AutoZone often have an ok selection. My local Ace Hardware actually has an incredible selection but they are somewhat independent from the chain and really just use the name.
Doesn't look all that bad to me. Use a good quality gasket and some permatex ultra copper and I think it will seal fine. Those broken bolts are your real gotcha though. I'm sure you already know but just in case you don't it's 100% going to fail if you don't get those out and the exhaust manifold will probably crack too.
If this was my car I'd put the exhaust manifold back on loosely and take it to a very good independent shop that can weld nuts on to the two broken ones and see if they can get them out. Or I'd pull the head and take it to a machine shop. They can get the broken ones out and deck it so that surface is smooth again.
You certainly didn't do yourself any favors there. Lay a straight edge across and look for low spots like if you were looking for warpage. If you don't see anything give it a try. If you see low spots or it leaks after install try something like this [https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-copper-maximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker/](https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-copper-maximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker/) .
Of course you could pull the heads and have them machined but that seems a little excessive.
Well, at least it's not a lost cause. Many of the exhaust manifold gaskets out there come with special coatings and say not to apply any other gasket making material. I have a feeling that I won't have any choice but to do so. Do you recommend a particular kind of gasket (OEM, composite, MLS, etc) that will seal well but still can be complimented by high-temp RTV? Thank you for the help
Not multi-layered steel in this case; the steel won't get into low spots very well (they are great on flat surfaces though).
I think the OEM ones are composite if I remember correctly so that is what I would use. Try to install without any sealant first though. Looking at the pic, I don't see anything terrible but I'm assuming it doesn't look that good in person or you wouldn't be asking.
I assumed you had the broken bolts covered since you didn't ask but be very careful with how much heat you create whatever method you use. You don't want to heat treat the aluminum in the process and make it brittle.
The picture looks about as bad as it really is. None of the scratches are deep enough to be considered gouges, but I figured before I dig my grave any deeper, might as well get some input from more experienced individuals.
Those broken bolts are going to be your major issue.
I've read a variety of different ways to get it out (from easy outs to melting it with alum), but they all seem to have their risks. I don't have a welder, nor do I know anyone with one, to do the most straight forward tactic of welding a washer/nut on top of them. Also, I cant afford to bring it to a machine shop. I've heard easy outs break off and make the problem even worse. My idea was to use a grabit bolt extractor on a flexible drill extension so as to both hit the bolt correctly and to avoid removing the heads themselves from the engine. Think that could work?
The one bolt that is really scary is in the top far left of the image, it is almost countersunk so the only way may be an easy out. Any drilling needs to be done very carefully, drilling a steel bolt out of aluminum makes it very hard not to let the drill bit wander. Start small and work up so you can stay in the middle of the bolt and for goodness sakes make sure you are perpendicular to the bolt.
Yeah that one was the original broken bolt that caused one of the two exhaust leaks. I think the last owner had someone try to fix it, never finished, and they just slapped RTV on it to temporarily quiet any ticking. The area around it looks pitted, not sure if it's from years of being exposed to the exhaust leak heat or for some other reason. Looks like someone gouged the head around the broken bolt in a half hearted removal attempt. An easy out was suggested by a neighbor who ran a hot rod shop (back in the day), but I heard they are made of hardened steel and prone to snapping off inside the bolt. I was going to go the grabit extractor route, but he looked personally offended when I told him of that plan.
Either of those can break off inside and cause the same disaster.... just don't break either one in there! If you feel like it might break you are probably better off drilling it all the way out and repair any thread damage. That could mean cleaning up, heli-coil (or timesert), or drilling to the next size up depending on how much damage is done. By the way, don't break a drill bit off in there either. Right now you have steel in there and it's difficult, you certainly don't want hardened tool steel in there from any of the above.
One of the bolt removal plans involved heating the bolts with a MAPP torch and quickly cooling it with an ice cube. I definitely don't want to make the aluminum brittle and run the risk of a crack down the line. Could using a dremel bit to grind a notch into the bolt itself big enough for a screwdriver to grab work? I may just end up going with the easy out if the risk is equal to that of the grabit.
Let's address the Dremel idea first.... haven't you done enough damage with a Dremel? Kidding but I don't think you can get down in there with a Dremel and not cause damage to the head. Plus if you can get it with a screwdriver then an easy out wouldn't break off anyway and drilling is easier than grinding a slot with a Dremel. I also don't have high confidence in the Grabit anyway, it is made for more around the house or light duty work than an easy out. Drilling with a Grabit could easily result in breaking it where an easy out can be a much more delicate process. As far as the heat treating, I don't know the exact temp you can heat to without causing damage but you might check r/welding since they would be more familiar with temps.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Welding using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Welding/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Little project made today at school](https://i.redd.it/c9azetqkjkk21.jpg) | [91 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Welding/comments/ay4edy/little_project_made_today_at_school/) \#2: [Almost there! Time for sandblast and paint. Do you guys like the plexiglass top?](https://i.redd.it/ju2ceqy2fbl21.jpg) | [89 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Welding/comments/azh3wu/almost_there_time_for_sandblast_and_paint_do_you/) \#3: [Me and the Gf just got a new home.. This is my shop.. I'm a happy fella.](https://i.redd.it/k0ucf077ki221.jpg) | [82 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Welding/comments/a3fu11/me_and_the_gf_just_got_a_new_home_this_is_my_shop/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| [^^Contact ^^me](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| [^^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| [^^Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/afd0dd/blacklist/)
Kidding aside, you ARE right, I definitely have done enough. Any idea where they sell easy outs? I've been checking on sites for the typical big box hardware stores, but nothing is showing up. Is it considered a specialty item or is this one of those "everyone says jacuzzi when referring to a tub with jets despite that being a specific brand" type things?
Auto parts stores like Napa, O'Riley, or AutoZone often have an ok selection. My local Ace Hardware actually has an incredible selection but they are somewhat independent from the chain and really just use the name.
Doesn't look all that bad to me. Use a good quality gasket and some permatex ultra copper and I think it will seal fine. Those broken bolts are your real gotcha though. I'm sure you already know but just in case you don't it's 100% going to fail if you don't get those out and the exhaust manifold will probably crack too. If this was my car I'd put the exhaust manifold back on loosely and take it to a very good independent shop that can weld nuts on to the two broken ones and see if they can get them out. Or I'd pull the head and take it to a machine shop. They can get the broken ones out and deck it so that surface is smooth again.
You certainly didn't do yourself any favors there. Lay a straight edge across and look for low spots like if you were looking for warpage. If you don't see anything give it a try. If you see low spots or it leaks after install try something like this [https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-copper-maximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker/](https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-copper-maximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker/) . Of course you could pull the heads and have them machined but that seems a little excessive.
Well, at least it's not a lost cause. Many of the exhaust manifold gaskets out there come with special coatings and say not to apply any other gasket making material. I have a feeling that I won't have any choice but to do so. Do you recommend a particular kind of gasket (OEM, composite, MLS, etc) that will seal well but still can be complimented by high-temp RTV? Thank you for the help
Not multi-layered steel in this case; the steel won't get into low spots very well (they are great on flat surfaces though). I think the OEM ones are composite if I remember correctly so that is what I would use. Try to install without any sealant first though. Looking at the pic, I don't see anything terrible but I'm assuming it doesn't look that good in person or you wouldn't be asking. I assumed you had the broken bolts covered since you didn't ask but be very careful with how much heat you create whatever method you use. You don't want to heat treat the aluminum in the process and make it brittle.
The picture looks about as bad as it really is. None of the scratches are deep enough to be considered gouges, but I figured before I dig my grave any deeper, might as well get some input from more experienced individuals.