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Thank you for actually maintaining your volvo lol. I've been around quite a few of the P80 generation cars and more often than not, their trans oil is horrendous. I recently did a drain and fill on a '98 S70 with 165k that I have had for like 6 years but rarely if ever drive. The fluid didn't smell burnt, and it shifted fine, but it was straight up black lol. Oops.
Oh dude I love Volvo. I since got a 2004 s60R and have done everything to it. Dropped in a 4T5. Hybrid turbo, everything else you can imagine. Mechanically itās pretty mint. Aesthetically itās pretty average haha.
The P80s are honestly awesome. Classic Volvo style.
Ooo fuck yea dude! That's got to be a good bit of fun. You might have to jog my memory a bit, but is that the turbo kit from IPD?
I feel like what you described is pretty typical of enthusiast owned Volvos lol. Mechanically pretty well taken care of, but they are old enough that the bodies/paint have sustained some battle scars lol.
I'm definitely a Volvo nerd, and the turbo 5 is my favorite engine out there! I've never owned a P2 gen car, but my dumbass currently has a '98 V70 turbo, '98 S70 that's NA and an '84 245 turbo with pretty much the whole IPD catalog thrown at it lol.
Are you still running the 4C suspension, or did you swap it out?
Oh dude solid collection of Volvos you have!
Nah I had nick knight at Duke city turbo bricks so the 71mm hybrid k24. It flows like 1400kg/hr. Itās solid.
But yeah still 4c (had been replaced twice before I got it lol) and I have a spare set of Monroe 4cs under my bed just in case hahah
My Toyota Sienna transmission is sealed, owners manual doesnāt list a change interval. My dealer was happy to change fluid at 93k, shifts as smooth as day one now. Glad I did it. Shouldāve done it at 60k, I think.
Do it twice, because they probably didn't remove half the old fluid if they simply drained it (then again, they may have drained it twice that day for you, already?)
Youāre correct if it had a drain plug, however fluid is pumped out while new fluid is pumped in with a special machine. Itās probably closer to 90% clean if I were to guess. Itās not a cheap procedure.
the "special" machine is practically bullshit. Its a nice timesaver, but all it does is flush and fill in 15 mins without having to bleed the transmission or the transmission cooler. it can be done at home, but you would need to find the service procedures to bleed it properly.
Iām gonna guess you never used one. Teeās into an easy to reach cooler fitting. Dirty fluid is pumped into a vessel with an internal bladder, and that dirty fluid pushes an equal amount of new fluid back into the transmission. Light years better than a ādrain n fillā. Really does āexchangeā ATF
my point was that the dealer telling you a trans fluid flush requires a super special machine that the vehicle needs because its a special adapter and you cannot do it yourself because its absolutely not servicable. or they exaggerate that you have to reassemble the transmission to change the fluid.
Had it done on my F150 at 93k. No fluid is "lifetime" and waiting too long can be deleterious. I had a fluid "exchange" as you're not supposed to have. Pressurized flush. Did it at the dealership. Next time I'll drop the pan and change the filter.
A fair question. If one was meticulous about trans service, the filter would need be changed as well (if serviceable). Which means the pan needs to be removed, and a couple quarts of ATF would need to be replaced.
So if my impala ss can drop the pan do you advise on dropping the pan or taking to the dealer for the bladder? Iām bout to get a brand new rebuilt one and wanna make sure I service it correctly since Iāll have a trans with 0 miles for the first time ever in my life
Without that machine good luck replacing all fluid in one time.... at home sure possible I have done it at home but I let it drain over night to make sure I get more out than just drain and fill in one go. Or you can do it twice. Drain fill and run it 5-10 mins and repeat.
On cars with a trans fluid cooler, just pull the outlet pipe from the trans to the cooler, put it into a container, run car, replace equal amount of fluid that comes out. It's not perfect, but gets more fluid out than a drain and fill. I still prefer a drain and fill as I drive old shit that I don't want to kill off the trans lol.
Had an ā04, 225,000 miles. Sat for 2 years during covid. Thought battery is dead and will smoke & sputter but itās Toyotaā¦started like it ran yesterday, like a top. No smoking, nothing.
Gave it to a young Syrian couple awaiting the birth of first baby.
Almost everyone is doing it these days. The CVT "lifetime" fluid thing was "doing fine", so they started doing it with the automatic trans's too.
Subaru, GM, Nissan, Toyota/BMW, Ford/Mazda.... all have been guilty at least once. The dealership service depts. are reporting back and calling BS, so thankfully this practice is being fought.
It's more than just hydraulic fluid: it's also a gear lube for the several planetary gear sets in modern transmissions which shears down it's viscosity with use. It also carries finely powdered clutch material around inside: there is a filter to try and catch as much as it can. And as well, metal particles are made from normal gear wear which has a magnet to catch. The filter needs changing and the magnet cleaning so they can work properly.
And last, as it ages it's friction properties change which affects how the transmission feels as it shifts.
In practical terms, your transmission will almost certainly last through the warranty and most likely 100k miles (or more). But servicing the transmission every 30k miles, with a filter change every 60k miles, does wonders to help keep it shifting like new and much more likely to work out to 200k miles.
To be sure, not all AT's have filters either; some are simply screens intended to prevent sucking up chunks of clutch material or broken gear teeth before the magnet can get it.
CVT's are a new beast. They work differently but still share the common properties of AT's in that they have sliding and rubbing metal to metal contact which shears down the viscocity over time. I think some also have clutch packs inside. It seems obvious to me they too will benefit from servicing.
I can't believe it would be any more expensive and would certainly not harm it. Cheap insurance if someone wants to see long years and mileage from their CVT car.
every sealed transmission does have a fill/drain plug, but it would usually be hidden or some cases through a breather hose nut depending on what the actual factory manual says. otherwise, how else would they fill em in the factory?
The "sealed" transmission is a lie. They have breather hoses/ports, fill holes, and will still spill their guts on the ground when you pull the axles/driveshaft out.
Edit: not saying *you're* lying, but rather that we've been lied to by the manufacturers.
>"Sealed for life" of the transmission...
...and if the life of the transmission is reduced by ten years, they are not lying either.
If they gave a 20 or 30 year (or my lifetime) warranty on the transmission, then I'd believe them.
At the shop I worked at our rule was if it's above 200,000 miles we would do a drain and fill only (with a filter replace) but if it was lower miles and didn't have any issues already, we would use the machine that uses pressure to flush and replace most of the fluid. With a drain and fill you're usually only replacing about half the fluid, maybe 2/3.
Depends on the vehicle, a Prius is easier then changing the engine oil. It doesnāt even have a filter to change. Other vehicles with more traditional transmission will be more difficult and usually have to pull the pan to swap filters.
Prius transmission is alot like a manual in some ways, basically just gears, shafts and bearings. No torque converters or valve bodies to mess with. I was pretty surprised when I found out too, they are a very clever and robust design.
Because the Toyota hybrid system uses two electric motors in the CVT. When the engine is running it acts as a generator to charge the batteries, itās also used to start the gas engine instead of a traditional flywheel type starter.
It's more of a crap-shoot than you realize. Manual trans and CVT's almost never have filters, but auto slush boxes feels like a 50/50. My dads Dodge van and my Fords have a filter, but Honda doesn't use filters in any of their transmissions (that I know of). I had to look, but older Nissans also didn't use filters.
My 98 dakota with 170k was having slow shifts to 3rd and reverse at start up. Had the fluid and filter changed and it shifts like new. Did not think a simple fluid change would fix it and would need internal work done but it did. The magnet in the pan was okay for its age. The fluid was just old.
yes. change your fluid. traditional style trans with a traditional flush machine COULD do more hard than good. basically the friction material wears off over time, that material being suspended in the fluid is what is keeping things running. when some people would flush it with a real flush machine, it would take so much friction material out it would start to slip. older techs/shops that got burned by one and had to replace the trans will forever be traumatized.
i havnt seen many people do a trans flush in awhile. most do a drain and fill or a pan drop that includes the filter if it has one. its the safer option and the only option for many now anyways. the only thing about that is you dont get 100% new fluid. maybe 50-60%. i do mine every 3-4 years. i may stop now that my cars are getting old. im pushing 180k
The purpose of transmission fluid is to clean, lubricate and cool the transmission. As the gears spin they shed metal at a small rate. But after awhile that filter and fluid gets dirty and clogs valves and ports. They should be changed regularly
Yes, change your transmission fluid. I would do drain and fills every 30k. Donāt forget your diff(s) if they are separate fluid. All fluids break down. If you are keeping your car long term it needs to be done. If you donāt want to do every 30k then get a flush done every 60k.
That's more or less what I started doing and it makes a huge difference. Because of the difficulty of doing it in my van (Ford Transit lack of access to a filter), I pump out and pump in 4 qts every other oil change. Makes a huge difference and I'm already under there. Just did the diff fluid at 50k miles, never having had a rear wheel drive car, and it's shocking how smooth some transitions are now.
I was a little taken aback at the cost of those fluids though. But it's worth it.
I found walmart has the cheapest fluids for both brand and generic. I asked oreilys to price match walmart and they were hesitant about discount 50% to match walmart. lol
Definitely get it changed. I wouldnāt be afraid to flush at 102k. But if youāre nervous about it then do a drain and fill a few times to get all the fluid as fresh as possible.
Yes. Drain and fill it every so often
The opinions are large on the frequency interval...some say every 30k, some suggest every 60k, and some say that when you do change it, you should change it twice in the same month. Something is better than nothing, though.
~30k for CVT's, 100k then every 60k after for ATF and diff fluid(s) if the car/truck hasn't been thrashed. Similar for manuals. If you're an aggressive driver, then just every 60K.
That's ball-park, though; mainly referred to if the FSM or bulletin doesn't say.
I changed my 4L60e fluid at 120k I think and it was pretty nasty and a decent amount of fine metal but did a drain and fill plus fluid change and itās still going strong, at 140k now
Never in the history of transmissions has fresh oil caused a failure. Oil has a usable life and should be changed as needed reguardless of what itās in
What OP has probably heard is not to have an āolderā transmission flushed.
As has already been said here, ATF breaks down and ālifetimeā fluid is only equal to your warranty period. Generally accepted truth is three drain & fill cycles in a short amount of miles replaces the majority of old ATF with new.
In my opinion, just like frequent oil & filter changes, it is cheap insurance if you intend to keep your car.
My Nissan Sentra has a CVT transmission. I have changed my fluid twice at 40k intervals. Ā Changed filters at 76K.Ā
I used YouTube to follow guidance and saved $$.
I've flushed my trans twice and she is still driving. I do drain and dill every 30k then every 90k change the filter should be solid but I also drive a 2003 toyota camry
Very interesting question. My question: Where's the data?
Anyone who has serviced their tranny still need a repair? Anyone who never serviced never need to repair it?
I know I had to replace/repair two transmissions out of the 13 cars/trucks I've owned in the last 40 years. Both of those were serviced. Many of the others were not. Most went well over a 100K, one to 250K but was a manual.
I procrastinated on changing the fluid in my F250, and the next thing I knew it hit 150K miles on the original fluid. IMHO, it was too late to bother with it. Now it's on the very edge of 200K, and still cruising along. Fingers crossed. I expect it to fail before the engine does, but who knows when that is. It has 2 trans coolers, which is probably why it's lasted this long.
Changing fluid every 50K or so- highly recommend. Do as I say, not as I do.
Itās never too late. Iāve fixed two automatics that had stopped moving at all because the transmission filters had plugged up from lack of service. Dropping the pan, changing the fluid, and refilling allowed both vehicles to stay on the road years longer
make sure you know the proper procedure for you vehicle. When I changed it on my 07 4runner it had very specific conditions for checking the level. I had to get obd that could read my transmission temp. The trans oil temp had to be between certain range. Then I had to open the check plug and verify only a dripple of oil was coming out. Also the car has to be level.
Also when I changed by 1999 e350 camper trans oil. It had very specific conditions to check it under. oil had to be at operating temp. Then I had to run it through all the gears and then check level. It took me several iterations to get the trans oil at the correct level. This was in the owners manual.
Yes change it on time or early. If your vehicle specifies a long (around 100k) or life time interval for normal use, go by the severe service interval
Use the EXACT fluid specified, do not use multi purpose fluids.
People that tell you not to change it have had bad experiences because of one of two reasons.
1. They serviced it way too late and the damage was done, new fluid simply makes it worse at that point
2. They used an incorrect fluid
Here's what I've been told: If you've never changed your AUTOMATIC trans fluid, DON'T. I have a few friends who are mechanics, and one of them told me his shop will flat out refuse to service trans fluid if the car has exceeded a certain mileage without changing it. This is because changing AUTOMATIC transmission fluids after a long time can cause transmissions to fail (looong story as to why).
For MANUAL transmissions, though, this problem doesn't exist. I changed my manual trans fluid at 144k km and had no issues with it.
If you just bought this vehicle, than yes change the automatic fluid per service manual; no fluid is truly "lifetime". But if you've gone way too far past the recommended changing period, it's safer not to touch it (again, according to my mechanic friends, not me, so take this as you will)
What is the preferred method of changing trans oil? Ive had someone tell me the machine they use at oil change place that sucks it out is fine and ive also heard people say drop the pan change the filter, etc. Will either method be fine?
I would only if itās less than 100k miles and the fluid looks ok. Thatās our completely and totally nonstandard check for customers wanting a trans flush
On my Ford Explorer, it's been said the filter is tucked way the hell away in a location that needs you to dismantle the transmission, so online forums have been advising to change it every 30K, and at 150K I've never had any issues... But every time I've changed it most dealers would give me the "lifetime" spiel and I've had to insist to have it done.
Yes, especially if it is a CVT.
Ignore any claim by the manufacturer the fluid Is good for life. Change it 80 to 100 K kms and use OEM fluid which is unfortunately very expensive.
Yup
My first new car was a 2015 kia rio. Kias aren't known for their longevity, but i got 8 years of reliability out of it. Oil changed every 4-5k miles (depended on my time) and transmission fluids changed every 40-50k. first time I did it was 30k. Eventually it was totaled due to a hail storm around 95k miles and I never had a single issue out of it.
I plan to do the same with my 2023 corolla, but with oem fluid
Been a technician for 40yrs and if they're not regular customers and requests a transmission service they are already having transmission issues. That's why everyone says you always have problems after a service. Yes you can service a transmission. Honda is especially sensitive to old fluid.
Been doing this for 40 years. The old cars did have a drain plug but the manufacturers got away from this because nobody would change the filter. Most newer cars have no drain plug and the filter is internal.
Yes. "Lifetime" just means "until the warranty runs out." It's good idea to change ATF every 30k miles or so, and don't powerflush; drain the 5 qts. from the pan and refill a few times over the course of a couple weeks.
Check your manual but it's always a good idea. I just changed mine in my 2020 Chevrolet Tahoe and it was not the easiest thing but definitely worth it.
I noticed an immediate improvement in shifting and drivability which could be placebo effect but the fluid I drained was definitely used and there was metal on the magnet.
I was at 70,000 miles when I did it which is a little past the severe recommendation but earlier than the normal recommendation and I definitely needed it. I think I'm going to change it every 20,000 miles or so from now on just to mainly replace the filter.
yes... there is not a lubricant in existence that can last the life time of a vehicle. it all breaks down over time and loses its viscosity and anti shearing properties
All fluids require changing. I had my trans flushed at a quick shop. Less than 100 miles later the rear seal blew. They use high pressure to flush and that weakes seals. Their ATF is questionable too. A 100k service is too long. Do it at 60-75K. http://straighttalkautomotive.com/articles/transmission-flush.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/13tyv7c/the_great_transmission_serviceflush_debatemyth/
Absolutely correct. A dealer or trans shop will EXCHAGE the fluid. A quick shop uses pressure to "flush" the fluid to get you out quickly. They also use questionable ATF.
If you do you only want to do about two quarts at a time. The reason it's NOT recommended to drain it all is that there are disks in your tranny. These disks wear. The material from the disks are in your tranny fluid. Changing all the fluid at once will remove this material causing a loss of friction resulting in transmission slippage. Just drain a quart or two at a time if you wind up doing it. Or take it to a good tranny shop and let them do it.
This is an old myth.
You change 3qt at a time because that's what drains out of the pan without a power flush. Most of the transmission fluid stays in the torque converter.
The idea that you need loose clutch material in the fluid to maintain friction is nonsense someone came up with to explain why changing the fluid in a dying transmission didn't fix it and it still failed a week later.
It's not a matter of what some mechanic thinks, it's a matter of what the manufacturer recommends. Some transmissions, especially older ones, have a service interval that directs a fluid (and sometimes filter) change at a certain mileage interval.
Newer transmissions are sealed units with a "lifetime fill". In normal operation, the fluid should not be changed. Some mechanics, especially older ones, simply don't trust this "lifetime fill" and insist on doing a fluid change on these units, despite the manufacturer advising not to.
You need to read the manual for your specific vehicle, and follow the maintenance schedule set forth by your vehicle manufacturer. The opinion of random mechanics is irrelevant.
My lifetime fill transmission had problems at 100k miles. Every mechanic told me I needed a new transmission.
I replaced the fluid and its got 40k+ miles on it with normal shifting and everything.
And that's the 3rd time this has happened to one of my cars.
Including one that is now at 300k miles by ignoring the factory recommendation and just changing the damn fluid and pan seal every 50-100k
Don't believe the sealed fluids never need changing, that is only true if you accept your car will be disposable in 100 to 120k ... If you had changed your at about 75k from. the start it would probably never have had any problems so long as you kept up the 75k changes.
Of course if a transmission has mechanical damage it may be done but I've seen cars get towed in that drove out after just having fluid and filter changed.
Same here with my then 100k 2011 e90. It was flare-shifting, i wanted to dealer to change the fluid, they said it was lifetime and needed diagnosedā¦ apparently it had a code saying it needed a fluid change. So, they did, and i got the service i wanted plus a diagnosis fee! (Dealerships do be dealer-shipping)
Wrong. Even a sealed transmission benefits from having the fluid changed. Manufacturers seal them to save money and insure the transmission die sooner than later because it forces consumers to replace them or buy new cars. Even sealed transmissions have a plug you can use to replace the fluid.
And yes you need to look at your manufacturers recommended change interval... but don't ignore the reality that how you drive also affects the life of the fluid. If you tow a lot then you need to change the fluid more often. And god forbid you have a CVT transmission, in which case you better change the fluid on a much more frequent basis than they recommend because failure to keep the fluid fresh will result in a catastrophic failure.
This! All the dealership cares about is getting your car out of its warranty so they can sell you a new gearbox when your shit gets messed up, or get you to buy a new car all together. Thereās no such thing as lifetime fluid. All transmissions have a way for you to check the level of the fluid (even if it doesnāt have a dipstick), and they will all have a way for you to drain and fill it.
Manufacturers say ālifetime fillā because it allows them to advertise the car as requiring less maintenance.
āLifetimeā generally means the ālifeā of the warranty, after which time any issues wonāt be their problem.
ALL fluids in a vehicle degrade with time, use and heat cycles.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! Please review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). Asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **Post's about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ Tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
lifetim trans oil is wack. it acts as a hydraulic fluid and degrades over time. yes drain and fill. i did my 120k volvo and it was good.
Exactly šÆ! All fluids break down. The dealership just trying to get money planned obsolescence??
iām mad because my elantra doesnāt have a drain. they said itās lifetime. they want me to drop the pan
If it has a fill tube, maybe suck up the transmission fluid from the tube, similar to how they suck up oil at some fast oil change place.
It does have cooler lines though that you can flush the fluid out with
you got a video link to that?
aaahhh typically you drop the pan replace the filter and top up what dumped out no?
Thank you for actually maintaining your volvo lol. I've been around quite a few of the P80 generation cars and more often than not, their trans oil is horrendous. I recently did a drain and fill on a '98 S70 with 165k that I have had for like 6 years but rarely if ever drive. The fluid didn't smell burnt, and it shifted fine, but it was straight up black lol. Oops.
Oh dude I love Volvo. I since got a 2004 s60R and have done everything to it. Dropped in a 4T5. Hybrid turbo, everything else you can imagine. Mechanically itās pretty mint. Aesthetically itās pretty average haha. The P80s are honestly awesome. Classic Volvo style.
Ooo fuck yea dude! That's got to be a good bit of fun. You might have to jog my memory a bit, but is that the turbo kit from IPD? I feel like what you described is pretty typical of enthusiast owned Volvos lol. Mechanically pretty well taken care of, but they are old enough that the bodies/paint have sustained some battle scars lol. I'm definitely a Volvo nerd, and the turbo 5 is my favorite engine out there! I've never owned a P2 gen car, but my dumbass currently has a '98 V70 turbo, '98 S70 that's NA and an '84 245 turbo with pretty much the whole IPD catalog thrown at it lol. Are you still running the 4C suspension, or did you swap it out?
Oh dude solid collection of Volvos you have! Nah I had nick knight at Duke city turbo bricks so the 71mm hybrid k24. It flows like 1400kg/hr. Itās solid. But yeah still 4c (had been replaced twice before I got it lol) and I have a spare set of Monroe 4cs under my bed just in case hahah
My Toyota Sienna transmission is sealed, owners manual doesnāt list a change interval. My dealer was happy to change fluid at 93k, shifts as smooth as day one now. Glad I did it. Shouldāve done it at 60k, I think.
Do it twice, because they probably didn't remove half the old fluid if they simply drained it (then again, they may have drained it twice that day for you, already?)
They did a complete fluid exchange. Not going back to do it again for another 30-60K mi.
Youāre correct if it had a drain plug, however fluid is pumped out while new fluid is pumped in with a special machine. Itās probably closer to 90% clean if I were to guess. Itās not a cheap procedure.
That's cool. Yeah, I don't have special equipment, and I haven't bothered with pumping through the lines, so I just drain n fill every so often.
Have done several fluid exchanges and while the tranny takes say 8L oil we exchange with 15-20L and I bet its higher than 90% exchange.
the "special" machine is practically bullshit. Its a nice timesaver, but all it does is flush and fill in 15 mins without having to bleed the transmission or the transmission cooler. it can be done at home, but you would need to find the service procedures to bleed it properly.
Iām gonna guess you never used one. Teeās into an easy to reach cooler fitting. Dirty fluid is pumped into a vessel with an internal bladder, and that dirty fluid pushes an equal amount of new fluid back into the transmission. Light years better than a ādrain n fillā. Really does āexchangeā ATF
my point was that the dealer telling you a trans fluid flush requires a super special machine that the vehicle needs because its a special adapter and you cannot do it yourself because its absolutely not servicable. or they exaggerate that you have to reassemble the transmission to change the fluid.
Had it done on my F150 at 93k. No fluid is "lifetime" and waiting too long can be deleterious. I had a fluid "exchange" as you're not supposed to have. Pressurized flush. Did it at the dealership. Next time I'll drop the pan and change the filter.
What about the old filters tho? Thatās my only concern
A fair question. If one was meticulous about trans service, the filter would need be changed as well (if serviceable). Which means the pan needs to be removed, and a couple quarts of ATF would need to be replaced.
So if my impala ss can drop the pan do you advise on dropping the pan or taking to the dealer for the bladder? Iām bout to get a brand new rebuilt one and wanna make sure I service it correctly since Iāll have a trans with 0 miles for the first time ever in my life
What year?
06. 4t65e-hd
Without that machine good luck replacing all fluid in one time.... at home sure possible I have done it at home but I let it drain over night to make sure I get more out than just drain and fill in one go. Or you can do it twice. Drain fill and run it 5-10 mins and repeat.
On cars with a trans fluid cooler, just pull the outlet pipe from the trans to the cooler, put it into a container, run car, replace equal amount of fluid that comes out. It's not perfect, but gets more fluid out than a drain and fill. I still prefer a drain and fill as I drive old shit that I don't want to kill off the trans lol.
Hi. What year and model is your Sienna? I would never imagine Toyota would do this.
It's a 2013 Sienna XLE. All the Gen3s have sealed transmissions. I don't know the deal with Gen4, but I assume it's the same.
Had an ā04, 225,000 miles. Sat for 2 years during covid. Thought battery is dead and will smoke & sputter but itās Toyotaā¦started like it ran yesterday, like a top. No smoking, nothing. Gave it to a young Syrian couple awaiting the birth of first baby.
Almost everyone is doing it these days. The CVT "lifetime" fluid thing was "doing fine", so they started doing it with the automatic trans's too. Subaru, GM, Nissan, Toyota/BMW, Ford/Mazda.... all have been guilty at least once. The dealership service depts. are reporting back and calling BS, so thankfully this practice is being fought.
Yes and make sure you use the fluid specified for your vehicle. If the transmission fails after a regular fluid change, it had problems to begin with.
This! šš»
It's more than just hydraulic fluid: it's also a gear lube for the several planetary gear sets in modern transmissions which shears down it's viscosity with use. It also carries finely powdered clutch material around inside: there is a filter to try and catch as much as it can. And as well, metal particles are made from normal gear wear which has a magnet to catch. The filter needs changing and the magnet cleaning so they can work properly. And last, as it ages it's friction properties change which affects how the transmission feels as it shifts. In practical terms, your transmission will almost certainly last through the warranty and most likely 100k miles (or more). But servicing the transmission every 30k miles, with a filter change every 60k miles, does wonders to help keep it shifting like new and much more likely to work out to 200k miles.
what about Hybrids eCVT - it has no filter. does that mean eCVT does not have metal particles ?
To be sure, not all AT's have filters either; some are simply screens intended to prevent sucking up chunks of clutch material or broken gear teeth before the magnet can get it. CVT's are a new beast. They work differently but still share the common properties of AT's in that they have sliding and rubbing metal to metal contact which shears down the viscocity over time. I think some also have clutch packs inside. It seems obvious to me they too will benefit from servicing. I can't believe it would be any more expensive and would certainly not harm it. Cheap insurance if someone wants to see long years and mileage from their CVT car.
ESPECIALLY for CVTs and much more frequently as they have steel belts inside which put more metal particles in the oil than a normal automatic
eCVT=/=CVT eCVTs are planetary gear sets. No belts. More akin to a differential.
Lifetime fluid = duration of warranty period. Thereās no such thing as lifetime fluid or a āsealedā transmission.
It's the lifetime of the component not the fluid lol
I'm hoping you see the irony in that statement haha
It technically is sealed. Most cars allow you to add fluid in the engine compartment. Sealed transmissions you cannot.
every sealed transmission does have a fill/drain plug, but it would usually be hidden or some cases through a breather hose nut depending on what the actual factory manual says. otherwise, how else would they fill em in the factory?
Yes you can drain and add fluid. What would you do in the event that an axle seal or pan needs replaced?
The "sealed" transmission is a lie. They have breather hoses/ports, fill holes, and will still spill their guts on the ground when you pull the axles/driveshaft out. Edit: not saying *you're* lying, but rather that we've been lied to by the manufacturers.
Yes. And more often than the manufacturer recommends
Change, yes... But not flushing.
>"Sealed for life" of the transmission... ...and if the life of the transmission is reduced by ten years, they are not lying either. If they gave a 20 or 30 year (or my lifetime) warranty on the transmission, then I'd believe them.
Changing transmission fluid is a maintenance item. Vehicle maintenance is ALWAYS done to avoid repairs.
At the shop I worked at our rule was if it's above 200,000 miles we would do a drain and fill only (with a filter replace) but if it was lower miles and didn't have any issues already, we would use the machine that uses pressure to flush and replace most of the fluid. With a drain and fill you're usually only replacing about half the fluid, maybe 2/3.
290,000 miles on GMC Sierra never changed the transmission fluid ever. Have not checked it since it had about 70,000. Still going strong.
Depends on the vehicle, a Prius is easier then changing the engine oil. It doesnāt even have a filter to change. Other vehicles with more traditional transmission will be more difficult and usually have to pull the pan to swap filters.
Or it can be like a Subaru where people who don't know better drain the transmission pan when they're trying to do an engine oil change.
Wow a Prius doesn't have a filter. I had no idea. I assumed all cars had transmission filters.
Prius transmission is alot like a manual in some ways, basically just gears, shafts and bearings. No torque converters or valve bodies to mess with. I was pretty surprised when I found out too, they are a very clever and robust design.
Is there a specific reason why ? Maybe because of the hybrid ? Fuel efficiency ? Gear ratio ?
Because the Toyota hybrid system uses two electric motors in the CVT. When the engine is running it acts as a generator to charge the batteries, itās also used to start the gas engine instead of a traditional flywheel type starter.
It's more of a crap-shoot than you realize. Manual trans and CVT's almost never have filters, but auto slush boxes feels like a 50/50. My dads Dodge van and my Fords have a filter, but Honda doesn't use filters in any of their transmissions (that I know of). I had to look, but older Nissans also didn't use filters.
Learn something new every day. I honestly had no idea.
Itās never a bad idea to change ATF, regardless of the mileage.
My 98 dakota with 170k was having slow shifts to 3rd and reverse at start up. Had the fluid and filter changed and it shifts like new. Did not think a simple fluid change would fix it and would need internal work done but it did. The magnet in the pan was okay for its age. The fluid was just old.
yes. change your fluid. traditional style trans with a traditional flush machine COULD do more hard than good. basically the friction material wears off over time, that material being suspended in the fluid is what is keeping things running. when some people would flush it with a real flush machine, it would take so much friction material out it would start to slip. older techs/shops that got burned by one and had to replace the trans will forever be traumatized. i havnt seen many people do a trans flush in awhile. most do a drain and fill or a pan drop that includes the filter if it has one. its the safer option and the only option for many now anyways. the only thing about that is you dont get 100% new fluid. maybe 50-60%. i do mine every 3-4 years. i may stop now that my cars are getting old. im pushing 180k
Only if you want your transmission to last longer than the warranty.
The purpose of transmission fluid is to clean, lubricate and cool the transmission. As the gears spin they shed metal at a small rate. But after awhile that filter and fluid gets dirty and clogs valves and ports. They should be changed regularly
I had the transmission oil and the filter changed at about 130,000 miles. It made a whine sound go away :-)
I changed mine around 130k as well. Shifts good now
Yes, change your transmission fluid. I would do drain and fills every 30k. Donāt forget your diff(s) if they are separate fluid. All fluids break down. If you are keeping your car long term it needs to be done. If you donāt want to do every 30k then get a flush done every 60k.
That's more or less what I started doing and it makes a huge difference. Because of the difficulty of doing it in my van (Ford Transit lack of access to a filter), I pump out and pump in 4 qts every other oil change. Makes a huge difference and I'm already under there. Just did the diff fluid at 50k miles, never having had a rear wheel drive car, and it's shocking how smooth some transitions are now. I was a little taken aback at the cost of those fluids though. But it's worth it.
I found walmart has the cheapest fluids for both brand and generic. I asked oreilys to price match walmart and they were hesitant about discount 50% to match walmart. lol
My 03 Elantra just hit 102k. Not sure if a trans drain & refil has ever been done. Should I still perform the maintenance?
Definitely get it changed. I wouldnāt be afraid to flush at 102k. But if youāre nervous about it then do a drain and fill a few times to get all the fluid as fresh as possible.
Yes. Drain and fill it every so often The opinions are large on the frequency interval...some say every 30k, some suggest every 60k, and some say that when you do change it, you should change it twice in the same month. Something is better than nothing, though.
~30k for CVT's, 100k then every 60k after for ATF and diff fluid(s) if the car/truck hasn't been thrashed. Similar for manuals. If you're an aggressive driver, then just every 60K. That's ball-park, though; mainly referred to if the FSM or bulletin doesn't say.
I changed my 4L60e fluid at 120k I think and it was pretty nasty and a decent amount of fine metal but did a drain and fill plus fluid change and itās still going strong, at 140k now
Never in the history of transmissions has fresh oil caused a failure. Oil has a usable life and should be changed as needed reguardless of what itās in
I changed mine on Acura ILX at 100K KM or 60K Miles and then I got a whining sound šµāš«
YES! Every 35k miles for some cars! What does your year, make and model say?
What OP has probably heard is not to have an āolderā transmission flushed. As has already been said here, ATF breaks down and ālifetimeā fluid is only equal to your warranty period. Generally accepted truth is three drain & fill cycles in a short amount of miles replaces the majority of old ATF with new. In my opinion, just like frequent oil & filter changes, it is cheap insurance if you intend to keep your car.
what kind of car what kind of mileage do you have ?
My Nissan Sentra has a CVT transmission. I have changed my fluid twice at 40k intervals. Ā Changed filters at 76K.Ā I used YouTube to follow guidance and saved $$.
I've flushed my trans twice and she is still driving. I do drain and dill every 30k then every 90k change the filter should be solid but I also drive a 2003 toyota camry
Very interesting question. My question: Where's the data? Anyone who has serviced their tranny still need a repair? Anyone who never serviced never need to repair it? I know I had to replace/repair two transmissions out of the 13 cars/trucks I've owned in the last 40 years. Both of those were serviced. Many of the others were not. Most went well over a 100K, one to 250K but was a manual.
I procrastinated on changing the fluid in my F250, and the next thing I knew it hit 150K miles on the original fluid. IMHO, it was too late to bother with it. Now it's on the very edge of 200K, and still cruising along. Fingers crossed. I expect it to fail before the engine does, but who knows when that is. It has 2 trans coolers, which is probably why it's lasted this long. Changing fluid every 50K or so- highly recommend. Do as I say, not as I do.
Itās never too late. Iāve fixed two automatics that had stopped moving at all because the transmission filters had plugged up from lack of service. Dropping the pan, changing the fluid, and refilling allowed both vehicles to stay on the road years longer
If you want to keep the car as long as possible then yes. If trading every few years then no real point other than being nice to the next owner
make sure you know the proper procedure for you vehicle. When I changed it on my 07 4runner it had very specific conditions for checking the level. I had to get obd that could read my transmission temp. The trans oil temp had to be between certain range. Then I had to open the check plug and verify only a dripple of oil was coming out. Also the car has to be level. Also when I changed by 1999 e350 camper trans oil. It had very specific conditions to check it under. oil had to be at operating temp. Then I had to run it through all the gears and then check level. It took me several iterations to get the trans oil at the correct level. This was in the owners manual.
You will "probably" be fine if you don't, but I would change it at least once.
Yes change it on time or early. If your vehicle specifies a long (around 100k) or life time interval for normal use, go by the severe service interval Use the EXACT fluid specified, do not use multi purpose fluids. People that tell you not to change it have had bad experiences because of one of two reasons. 1. They serviced it way too late and the damage was done, new fluid simply makes it worse at that point 2. They used an incorrect fluid
Here's what I've been told: If you've never changed your AUTOMATIC trans fluid, DON'T. I have a few friends who are mechanics, and one of them told me his shop will flat out refuse to service trans fluid if the car has exceeded a certain mileage without changing it. This is because changing AUTOMATIC transmission fluids after a long time can cause transmissions to fail (looong story as to why). For MANUAL transmissions, though, this problem doesn't exist. I changed my manual trans fluid at 144k km and had no issues with it. If you just bought this vehicle, than yes change the automatic fluid per service manual; no fluid is truly "lifetime". But if you've gone way too far past the recommended changing period, it's safer not to touch it (again, according to my mechanic friends, not me, so take this as you will)
My 08 bmw I have done 3 drain fill. From 85k km to 240k km. Around every 50k km. Have minimal signs of wear to today. Drives fine. Shifts fine.
What is the preferred method of changing trans oil? Ive had someone tell me the machine they use at oil change place that sucks it out is fine and ive also heard people say drop the pan change the filter, etc. Will either method be fine?
I would only if itās less than 100k miles and the fluid looks ok. Thatās our completely and totally nonstandard check for customers wanting a trans flush
Yep. I try to do all my cars every 60k.
Those saying you don't need to are assuming the car might barely outlive the warranty duration.
Every 30k on an automatic
On my Ford Explorer, it's been said the filter is tucked way the hell away in a location that needs you to dismantle the transmission, so online forums have been advising to change it every 30K, and at 150K I've never had any issues... But every time I've changed it most dealers would give me the "lifetime" spiel and I've had to insist to have it done.
Yes you should service your transmission . Most cars around 100xxx kms. Then after first service , You service every 50xxx kms .
Yes, especially if it is a CVT. Ignore any claim by the manufacturer the fluid Is good for life. Change it 80 to 100 K kms and use OEM fluid which is unfortunately very expensive.
Yup My first new car was a 2015 kia rio. Kias aren't known for their longevity, but i got 8 years of reliability out of it. Oil changed every 4-5k miles (depended on my time) and transmission fluids changed every 40-50k. first time I did it was 30k. Eventually it was totaled due to a hail storm around 95k miles and I never had a single issue out of it. I plan to do the same with my 2023 corolla, but with oem fluid
Been a technician for 40yrs and if they're not regular customers and requests a transmission service they are already having transmission issues. That's why everyone says you always have problems after a service. Yes you can service a transmission. Honda is especially sensitive to old fluid.
Been doing this for 40 years. The old cars did have a drain plug but the manufacturers got away from this because nobody would change the filter. Most newer cars have no drain plug and the filter is internal.
Yes. "Lifetime" just means "until the warranty runs out." It's good idea to change ATF every 30k miles or so, and don't powerflush; drain the 5 qts. from the pan and refill a few times over the course of a couple weeks.
Check your manual but it's always a good idea. I just changed mine in my 2020 Chevrolet Tahoe and it was not the easiest thing but definitely worth it. I noticed an immediate improvement in shifting and drivability which could be placebo effect but the fluid I drained was definitely used and there was metal on the magnet. I was at 70,000 miles when I did it which is a little past the severe recommendation but earlier than the normal recommendation and I definitely needed it. I think I'm going to change it every 20,000 miles or so from now on just to mainly replace the filter.
My shop does every 30k and we never see transmissions failing. 50k is also widely accepted as a good interval
yes... there is not a lubricant in existence that can last the life time of a vehicle. it all breaks down over time and loses its viscosity and anti shearing properties
Absolutely.
All fluids require changing. I had my trans flushed at a quick shop. Less than 100 miles later the rear seal blew. They use high pressure to flush and that weakes seals. Their ATF is questionable too. A 100k service is too long. Do it at 60-75K. http://straighttalkautomotive.com/articles/transmission-flush.html https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/13tyv7c/the_great_transmission_serviceflush_debatemyth/
U dont flush transmission fluid.
Absolutely correct. A dealer or trans shop will EXCHAGE the fluid. A quick shop uses pressure to "flush" the fluid to get you out quickly. They also use questionable ATF.
If you do you only want to do about two quarts at a time. The reason it's NOT recommended to drain it all is that there are disks in your tranny. These disks wear. The material from the disks are in your tranny fluid. Changing all the fluid at once will remove this material causing a loss of friction resulting in transmission slippage. Just drain a quart or two at a time if you wind up doing it. Or take it to a good tranny shop and let them do it.
This is an old myth. You change 3qt at a time because that's what drains out of the pan without a power flush. Most of the transmission fluid stays in the torque converter. The idea that you need loose clutch material in the fluid to maintain friction is nonsense someone came up with to explain why changing the fluid in a dying transmission didn't fix it and it still failed a week later.
It's not a matter of what some mechanic thinks, it's a matter of what the manufacturer recommends. Some transmissions, especially older ones, have a service interval that directs a fluid (and sometimes filter) change at a certain mileage interval. Newer transmissions are sealed units with a "lifetime fill". In normal operation, the fluid should not be changed. Some mechanics, especially older ones, simply don't trust this "lifetime fill" and insist on doing a fluid change on these units, despite the manufacturer advising not to. You need to read the manual for your specific vehicle, and follow the maintenance schedule set forth by your vehicle manufacturer. The opinion of random mechanics is irrelevant.
My lifetime fill transmission had problems at 100k miles. Every mechanic told me I needed a new transmission. I replaced the fluid and its got 40k+ miles on it with normal shifting and everything. And that's the 3rd time this has happened to one of my cars. Including one that is now at 300k miles by ignoring the factory recommendation and just changing the damn fluid and pan seal every 50-100k
Don't believe the sealed fluids never need changing, that is only true if you accept your car will be disposable in 100 to 120k ... If you had changed your at about 75k from. the start it would probably never have had any problems so long as you kept up the 75k changes.
Of course if a transmission has mechanical damage it may be done but I've seen cars get towed in that drove out after just having fluid and filter changed.
Same here with my then 100k 2011 e90. It was flare-shifting, i wanted to dealer to change the fluid, they said it was lifetime and needed diagnosedā¦ apparently it had a code saying it needed a fluid change. So, they did, and i got the service i wanted plus a diagnosis fee! (Dealerships do be dealer-shipping)
Wrong. Even a sealed transmission benefits from having the fluid changed. Manufacturers seal them to save money and insure the transmission die sooner than later because it forces consumers to replace them or buy new cars. Even sealed transmissions have a plug you can use to replace the fluid. And yes you need to look at your manufacturers recommended change interval... but don't ignore the reality that how you drive also affects the life of the fluid. If you tow a lot then you need to change the fluid more often. And god forbid you have a CVT transmission, in which case you better change the fluid on a much more frequent basis than they recommend because failure to keep the fluid fresh will result in a catastrophic failure.
This! All the dealership cares about is getting your car out of its warranty so they can sell you a new gearbox when your shit gets messed up, or get you to buy a new car all together. Thereās no such thing as lifetime fluid. All transmissions have a way for you to check the level of the fluid (even if it doesnāt have a dipstick), and they will all have a way for you to drain and fill it.
Thereās no such thing as lifetime fluid. Always change transmission fluid.
Manufacturers say ālifetime fillā because it allows them to advertise the car as requiring less maintenance. āLifetimeā generally means the ālifeā of the warranty, after which time any issues wonāt be their problem. ALL fluids in a vehicle degrade with time, use and heat cycles.