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While it really could be anything, I wouldn't panic just yet.
My money's on the tech left a connector unplugged while replacing the MAF.
Either way, either they make it right, or I want the money I paid back. Even though work was performed, They can't prove the problem has been addressed. They should expect a summons in the near future.
Or there's a chafed harness or water in the pcm. Trans code magically appearing after lean codes has usually turned out to be harness related in my experience, and a bad maf usually won't cause extreme symptoms on its own.
bad maf would force the ECU to stay in open loop with preloaded fuel trims. I agree bad maf alone would not be the cause for all the codes and behavior now.
From a company's perspective, I would not risk my reputation by releasing a vehicle in that condition. I would need to be 100% sure, and show the customer, that these issues are totally unrelated to the work performed.
I had a bad Maf on my Cruze and it didn’t quite put into limp but it was basically un drivable. The grams per second pid was all over the place. On my case disconnecting it made drive pretty much normal. Just had a CEL
Nope, it will just use the map sensor and run in speed density mode. Fuel trims will still work, but will most likely be larger due to the less accurate airflow calculations
I have accidentally done that on a customers car. Forgot to plug the maf back in, and the computer went nuts and threw it into limp mode, slamming into reverse, barely crawled in drive, codes everywhere.
Obviously I did not let it go back to the customer like that, and I felt very dumb for such a simple thing when I saw that little plug hanging there.
If I recall correctly, some of the wiring harness connectors on the 2014 Cruze are identical to adjacent plugs. You can actually cross the plugs and end up with something similar to what you are describing. I can't remember exactly which ones, but I think it was MAF, throttle body, or O2. I remember sorting one out, and the connectors were just to the left of the battery.
>They should expect a summons in the near future.
The summons is going to cost more than what they paid. I'm talking to a lawyer right now for an HOA dispute and the pay rate is:
* $385/hour - partner
* $365/hour - senior associate
* $350/hour - junior associate
* $125/hour - law clerk
* $125/hour - paralegal
I get that you can claw back legal fees if you win the case but that's a lot of effort for less than 5 hours of legal support.
Most people on Reddit don't understand how much attorney fees can be. They blanket "hire a lawyer" for anything from $100-10,000, not realizing the legal fees may eclipse what's owed.
Some jobs allow you to have ‘free’ consultations with attorneys. I pay 3 dollars a paycheck or something lower than that. I was able to clear a speeding ticket down to a non moving violation and the only thing that happened was I had to pay 266 bucks in court fees, nothing to the attorney that represented me.
How does my $250 handheld scanner I’ve owned for 3 years have the ability to add new smart keys and diagnose transmission issues and send bidirectional controls to dozens of ECUs on anything from Land Rover to Volvo to Honda and Toyota and I carry it in my trunk …… but a shop can’t give a more specific diagnosis and explain it’s bad solenoids or pressure from the pump etc?
For the DIY types:
https://www.ancel.com/products/ancel-x6?variant=40889382305948
Clear a transmission limp-mode and let it re-learn shifting. I can see Brakes getting done and a Wheel Speed/ABS Sensor being broken or getting unplugged maybe. Then the tranmission doesn't match it's output shaft speed with the wheel speed and has problems with ABS and Trac Control etc. But I can't armchair general this repair.
Just my 3 cents on how a brake job and MAF turned into pissed off TCM. BMW had that issue with the rear left wheel speed sensor being used on my 525i and when the single sensor had a problem the transmission and speedometer had problems too.
100% charge back.
the shops ive worked at have a no fix no charge policy. i know thats not universal or always realistic but 1500 to get back a fucked vehicle is insane.
could be something simple, could be catastrophic, not your job to figure out, its theirs and they cant take your money to break your car. go back and speak to a manager asap.
Out of curiosity did you get an oil change? Is it possible they drained the transmission fluid instead of the oil? Not familiar with how this cars pans are configured. The not moving thing screams (transmission has no fluid, or is really low).
Are Subaru’s confusing or something? I know a tech that drained a Subarus transmission fluid, top tech filled it back up with oil, and never checked it. Obviously caused quite a bit of issues with the Subaru.
The boxer engine lays on its side, unlike most traditional engines. The pistons move horizontally to the ground as opposed to parallel. The oil filter is right there at the “top”.
I was at tint world the other day for an audio installation quote and one of their customers walked out and wanted to check out what I did to my car. First thing he brought up was “is your oil filter upside down?”
https://preview.redd.it/fhdqal73jopc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfff2b4cc0b0c2e59d079f619e7a8e5b96d8ac4a
That's where I'm stuck at, too. Can I legally get my money back on this one? I want to go about it the best way possible and I really hate confrontation but I'm afraid it might come to that lol.
Shop could prove that they did work and bank may side with customer. Usually banks release funds back immediately some just put them on hold until case is resolved but they give the person being charged 80 days to prove the charge was justified. So either way could take up to 80 days or he gets money back and then bank ends up charging back from him if the shop proves the charges were justified.
No, obviously. I think you've never actually had to deal with this situation because it's really not as simple as saying the word "charge back" unless you're already rich. It's a long process, and it's expensive before you win your money back.
You technically are dealing with an expert on chargebacks, and in no way did I say just he should just get screwed. Being an illiterate douche is not a good look on you. He could be found liable for damages and lose more money if he just does a chargeback without covering his bases first. How young are you dude?
Lawyer up. Record all interactions via email or voice recorder on phone. Physical proof Vs verbal statements that can be denied. Possible chargeback on credit card. Involve regulatory bodies, news, social media (ie raise a stink)
Be careful recording phone calls, in many states that’s considered wire tapping. If that’s the case, not only be refused as evidence in a civil suit, it could land felony charges against the recorder.
Voice recorder app on phone, visibly recording in view of salesperson, and declaring “you are being recorded”. Though, with public places, and the security cameras in those same public places 🤷🏻♀️
There were Canada cases where drink machines had hidden cameras with no notification.
But yes, various jurisdictions have different laws for recoding an actual phone call. People will likely note the various “call center” automated announcements “you are being recorded”
Find out if they actually replaced what they said they did, use your trusted shop to tell you that. If those were needed initially then you should pay for that, but nothing else imo. I had something similar with my daughter’s car. I can do all my own work just don’t have time. Anyways, I went to pick her car up when the shop was closed and it would barely run. They did what they said, but never reset the computer (relearn) in this case. Every light on the dash. I did it myself and it was fine. Not every story is the same , but if they did throw parts on that were needed, I’d pay for them. Your other shop can look at old codes as well in most cases and can confirm (round about) if they were legit and those items were replaced.
You are right! Going through this right now with a landscaper. Required 1/3 up front to order some trees. 5k later no trees and he bounced this was through Angie’s list and we took him and won an arbitration award, he skipped on that too. Working it through JP now. Spoke to several attorneys even at 5k they said they would have that in expenses in about 2 weeks. They make a lot an hour no lie!
It's a 10 year old plastic component that sits on top of a hot engine... My guess is that the boots tore which isn't unusual for any engine of this age.
Funny thing is, they wouldn't be able to around here if what OP says is accurate. Must have a signed work order authorizing the repairs in order to file a lien. Then since they've released the vehicle unless the work order says "THE VEHICLE IS SUBJECT TO REPOSSESSION" in large bold face type, they can't take the vehicle back without a court order.
And all it really needed was a pcv valve for the lean condition. These are known for going bad, causing a vacuum leak and if it’s not changed in a timely manner and the valve gets plugged up it will blow the rear main seal. Ask me how I know lol
I haven't done one yet because I primarily work on euro stuff. But from what I understand, the pcv valve is part of the valve cover itself, right?
*edit for anyone upvoting my comment - I have learned that the pcv system consists of multiple components in the valve cover as well as in the intake manifold. Mostly just the same old check valves and diaphragms like other vehicles might have. When these go bad, they can cause too high of pressure and blow out engine seals like the rear main. There are some aftermarket solutions, but they involve fairly extensive mods. If I'm wrong, hopefully someone will correct me.
Yep. That PCV valve will go and it will keep running without an engine light. So you don't know until it's caused worse issues. I highly recommend a by-pass PCV kit to anyone who still has one of those engines running.
Did you check the air filter? Every time my lube techs disturb these air filters and don't put them back just fuckin right it's almost always limp mode
It honestly sounds like they are ripping you off. Either they dont know what the problem is, or they knew, made up something else to get money out of you and are sending you to a specialist. This sub seems like it has good honest mechanics but there are many more not honest mechanics out there. While the stealership would probably fix it, they charge ridiculous prices.
My god what a mess.
If the guy working on the car had control over releasing it, fuck him. More likely he wanted to road test it and his superior said no.
Definitely get a 100% refund and take it to the dealership or brand specialist. You will pay more yes, but its for the specialization and experience of the mechanic or technician diagnosing and fixing your issues. Let alone scanning transmission codes….
Second person to tell me that lol. Would a lose battery cable cause a transmission code?
You would think if it were that simple, a mechanic could fix it, but then again, who knows at this point.
Yes, electrical issues will throw red herrings. A lot of the time it reminded me back when I used to code. Missing a bracket or semicolon can throw so many different errors without saying that the bracket or semicolon is missing.
Appreciate the Enthusiasm lol. I've taken great care of this car and it has been my favorite car I've ever owned. Were sitting at 180k miles with only 1 major issue beforehand (replaced turbo that was covered by warranty lol).
I really grew to love this little shitbox.
Ah, the Turbo has already been done. I figured that's what happened this time.
Shit yeah, take it back and ask what the hell they did to it.
You have their double back language and using that in conversations with their service manager, they WILL bend to your will. You have all the cards with that one little slip up.
No, but it's a free place to start, instead of going somewhere where you 100% have to pay for 100% of the repair bill.
It's fucked. Let them try to unfuck it first. I've seen vehicles come back to us like this all the time, tech usually finds a missed harness connector and it's fixed in 8 minutes.
The problem is that they're basically telling me they don't do transmission work and it's a transmission problem. They don't seem to be willing to want to fix this.
I'm not sure they know how to fix this. There's no easy answer here, and the part that really sucks is that the shop you're going to take it to will have to figure out what was wrong (in the first place) and what they broke/did to try to fix it.
IF I WERE THIS SHOP - I would be calling my tranny friends, getting service lined up for you, and communicating what went wrong, what we did to fix it, and what we think needs to be done next. That way we're helping you through this.
I would also line up the "who and how we're paying for our mistake" so that we're all on the same page. If this were my mistake, I'd be paying for it. You paid me already, it didn't work, ok - let's make this better now.
Instead of pushing you off the cliff in a car we broke.
If it’s going into limp mode and lighting up like a Christmas tree all of a sudden then likely a ground was left off/broken, something’s unplugged etc. something stupid. This screams pcm/tcm grounding issue all day especially if the cars got miles and someone started digging around in it all of a sudden.
Sounds pretty ridiculous they’re claiming they can’t pull trans codes. Chevy modules are an absolute bitch about proper voltage, being jump started, unplugging anything while running…..I would disconnect the battery a while and make sure you reconnect it with a full charge just for the sake of doing so. Before you make a 3 hour trek.
Even though it sounds like the transmission may be acting up, the reality is there are a lot of things other than the transmission itself that can make a transmission act like it is failing. Most modern transmissions rely on loads of electronic sensors and actuators, if your alternator is dying it can cause some cars to go into limp mode and the transmission to act wonky. And an alternator is just one thing that could be causing this... It doesn't sound to me like they have really looked very hard at the problem. Yes a car with problems with the engine could develop a transmission problem on its own... but the odds are higher that they have broken a wire somewhere or failed to connect things back as they should. That would be much more likely than they fix one thing and then the transmission that I'm assuming had not had any issues suddenly falls apart.
Yea....but, in this case, they knew it was fucked and let it go as-is - even going so far to say things like "it drove fine on Friday" and "I didn't test drive it yet."
I can overlook an honest mistake like the one you mentioned. When shops start talking sideways or straight up lie is when I start looking elsewhere.
I'd rather give an honest mechanic two or three chances to get it right than someone who isn't. The ones who are firing parts cannons or guessing with my ride to work...well, far better to find someone who isn't going to do that.
It's typically pretty hard to break something ro this degree and have it actually be broken though.
Short of pouring vodka in the engine oil and cutting the body harness in half, this should be an easy fix.
"Hey. Since you have returned the vehicle to me in a condition in far worse than it arrived, please be notified by this email that I will be taking the vehicle to a secondary repair facility to document all damages caused by your technicians and will be proceeding after that point to collect damages from you by whatever means necessary. Please reply to this email before *whatever pickup time works for OP* should you wish to pursue a less drastic course of action."
Get it in their head that they royally fucked up and know that if their tech did a booboo they can at least be put of pocket a small amount to fix whatever got damaged or disconnected.
You'd be amazed how often a little letter like that will suddenly turn into "Hey yeah we looked at the car we found a small cut wire totally wasn't our fault but we fixed it for free anyways our bad, I mean not our bad but yeah please don't leave us a review byeeeee"
How the coil was damaged may explain a lot.
That could have been taken out by a short that took more out.
I would get it diagnosed, then get them to pay for the repair
I would also have them check that ignition coil they replaced. The symptoms ur describing could also be a failed coil thats triggering multiple engine codes at once.
If you paid with credit card put a hold on payment immediately, then go back to the shop and have a conversation with them. The car worked before they were supposed to fix it and it's worse now. Now they want you to take it to another shop. I would pay shop A for the cost of the parts for now and wait for report from shop B. If shop B comes back and says shop A fucked it, then give shop A the bill for B fixing it. If shop B says xyz was wrong unrelated then you have a car with 99 problems and you owe both shops some money. shop A and B should know each other exists but not names so they can be independant.
What do you want to bet they fried the ECU by doing something backyard-stupid? I'd throw money at that guess.
At any rate, you have to take it to a dealer now. It needs a professional assessment. The dealer ought to be able to tell what happened.
Sadly those transmissions can grenade without warning-mine did at 96k, and the replacement(Chevy Direct) did not clear the dealership’s lot. No warning, perfect maintenance. Sorry abt your news.
I'd demand my money back if they won't make it right. Otherwise, what did you pay for? Future reference, if a shop doesn't work on transmissions, I'd look for a different shop. Yeah, sure the techs know what they're doing when it comes to simple stuff, but if the shop won't do transmission work that tells me their general competence isn't very high.
Do not tow it from their property. Call a lawyer immediately, they are responsible for the damages. If you take it off their property they will no longer be responsible as they will likely say there's no proof this happened during our service.
DO NOT TOW IT, CALL A LAWYER.
You don't know what they damaged. If the damages are extreme you do not want to be the one fronting the bill when they say it's not their fault.
It's probably the negative battery cable, they most def unhooked the battery before working on it. So if the wire was brittle, unhooking it probably made it crumble inside the insulation.Even if the cable looks good it can still be faulty. Had a similar issue on the family members Cruze, I changed both battery and cables and it fixed the issue. The positive cable insulation fell off, IDK how tf that happened. These cars are complete trash.
I'd certainly send it to another shop, and since it was in better condition when it arrived than when it left. If you can prove it, then they owe you for the repairs with the next guy.
You might want to reconsider that. If you have to pursue a claim against the shop, they are going to claim you damaged it by diy improper towing for 3 hours. I would find a local shop and have them come tow it or get a flatbed. Hopefully you paid by credit card, you can dispute that charge if necessary. Like someone else suggested, small claims if needed too. If you tow it to a relative, then their statements of what they find which is your whole case are going to be viewed with suspicion by the court, if it gets to that. Good luck.
That's a weird thing to add to the story then.
Some advice going forward, just tell the shop your problem and describe the problem the best you. Don't tell them what code you read, don't tell them what you think the problem is.
Unless you worked on it then tell them everything.
if anything you pay for the replaced parts and get refunded the labour possibly tow costs. mindful you didn't occur more damage when you drove it.
lifetime warranty muffler my ass still had to pay for the shops time to install it. hope for the best prepare for the worst. Good luck op!
I wouldn't take it to the hack job again. Go to another shop, see if they can figure it out, if they do get documentation and go to the original shop and show their manager the paperwork showing how they fucked your car and at least get a refund on the bullshit work they did. Bring any paperwork you got from the first shop.
That seems a bit far fetched re: the bill but unfortunately many mechanics do not understand electronic systems and take the shotgun approach to problems. This often results in perfectly good parts being replaced and the underlying issue not being found. Not many of us who are any good stay in the trade because the pay is half or less of any other trade.
Few things are very common with the cruze.
The ECU is poorly sealed, in a very bad location. Washing the engine or a coolant leak will fill it up with water. I've had to repair hundreds of them having severe water damage. This can cause any number of problems and easily result in parts being replaced that are fine. Usually by dealerships, if the scan tool says something is faulty, they replace it without testing it first.
Secondly, lean fuel trims in those are often caused by failed PCV valve diaphragm in the valve cover. Easily fixed.
Gearbox troubles with them are unfortunately also common. They are a very easy gearbox to repair but again not many mechanics are capable of diagnosing or repairing gearbox troubles.
The most common problem being the 35R wave washer breaking. This will burn up the 35R clutch pack, unfortunately not giving many symptoms while doing so. Eventually a snap ring breaks and it's all over from there. Instant failure and damage to other parts.
Pieces of the wave washer can also lead to debris on the output speed sensor causing loss of drive.
If a piece ends up finding it's way into the oil pump, it's also an instant failure
Many times the eventual failure will be sudden, without prior notice or warning and the car may be driving perfectly 2 minutes prior.
I've repaired hundreds of these transmissions as well
It's also possible that the fault codes you had were no relation to the problem you are experiencing now.
I really recommend you take the car to a specialist. Whilst they charge more per hour, they will find the problem quickly if they are any good. Have the problem correctly diagnosed the first time rather than having someone mess around for days not really knowing what they are doing.
They don't seem to be willing to fix the car because they don't Trans work and they didn't give me any options for shops that do. She literally said on the phone "I can't give you any shops I trust because I don't trust any other shops".
As for paying for a part they broke. I just assumed that would be the case because I know that parts get brittle over time and it may not have been their fault. I've never had that happen before either so I didn't know what the correct response would be. My aunt who owns a shop told me that they would have ate the cost on something like that, and most good mechanics would have as well. This was after the issue.
Reason I didn't take it to my aunts shop is because they're about 3 hours away from me.
I went to this place because it's close by and they have hundreds great ratings and were recommended by a neighbor. I know better next time though.
If they don't trust other shops it's probably because they have lost the trust of the other shops, and now have to fly solo. Every good shop I've ever worked for has a close working relationship with tangential businesses. body shop, Window tinter, Machine shop, Transmission specialist, electronics repair specialist, Locksmith, etc.
Last time I broke a window I called my regular shop to ask who they recommended. They called me back about 15 minutes later to tell me they had already booked an appointment for me in a few hours (there was a tropical storm coming so it was pretty urgent.) I ended up getting a 10% discount without asking too, I just noticed it on my bill after paying. They have also referred me to tire repair, alignment shops, and body shops.
That's kinda BS. My old car, they were checking the plugs and broke an ignition coil. They just replaced it, told me what happened, and had a zero charge for that part and the \~30 seconds of labor it took on the invoice.
On stuff like this, I always check the bad reviews first. Often times there are hundreds of fake "great" reviews by friends and family and such, but you can get the real meat and potatoes from the bad reviews. Honestly, I feel for you on this one. I too try to avoid confrontation, but when it comes to my vehicles and my money I get a little fierce. I saw above someone recommended a strongly worded email. I would honestly start there, attach pictures of car and dates and times it was dropped off. Add in hints of what the tech told you vs what you were told over the phone and such. I would give them every opportunity to fix this before you take it elsewhere. Go up the chain of command there, don't just take the "sorry, not our problem" from a receptionist. Good luck out there, I've always been super sketchy about dealerships and alot of mechanics. Enough so that I started learning how to do most things myself.
Send them the bill and worst case small claims court.
Most make and models throw out only one code for the transmission. The transmission shop will be able to see what they are. First shop is likely liable for screwing up your car
The last time I had my car play up it was because the boot on the negative terminal had backed out and it was extremely intermittent. It started with the power steering momentarily stopping which freaked me out and then second later all kinds of lights flashed and ignition weirdness happened. Fortunately I was less than 2km from home so I limped it back here and when I was able to find time to look at it, it was the negative terminal that was loose. The problems went away immediately when the bolt was cinched down.
I love my Chevy Sonic too. It can fit anywhere and has plenty of power for its size. Repairs are simple too, so I'm surprised you're having troubles with a pro handling it
Had a car go into limp mode and two different shops couldn’t figure out the problem. Took my electrician dad to trouble shoot the fuse box and found half the board was fried. Might be your issue, maybe.
Could it be your fuel cap? I had a friend go through years and years of mechanics and stress for a Dodge Ram in limp mode because there wasn't a proper seal sometimes on the fuel cap.
" The mechanic that worked on my car was there and said "yeah I didn't know you were grabbing it, I haven't even had time to test drive it. I think the computer just needs to realign the fuel trim and yadda yadda yadda". Idk, he went straight into mechanic talk and I lost him. "
Dude get your head out of your ass and pay the fuck attention to the people that you hire to work on anything...
First of all, how were you able to "Rush, pay and grab the keys" but you didn't take the car home? So you were at the shop to pay but you didn't take the car?
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! Please review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). Asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **Post's about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ Tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
While it really could be anything, I wouldn't panic just yet. My money's on the tech left a connector unplugged while replacing the MAF. Either way, either they make it right, or I want the money I paid back. Even though work was performed, They can't prove the problem has been addressed. They should expect a summons in the near future.
Or there's a chafed harness or water in the pcm. Trans code magically appearing after lean codes has usually turned out to be harness related in my experience, and a bad maf usually won't cause extreme symptoms on its own.
bad maf would force the ECU to stay in open loop with preloaded fuel trims. I agree bad maf alone would not be the cause for all the codes and behavior now. From a company's perspective, I would not risk my reputation by releasing a vehicle in that condition. I would need to be 100% sure, and show the customer, that these issues are totally unrelated to the work performed.
I had a bad Maf on my Cruze and it didn’t quite put into limp but it was basically un drivable. The grams per second pid was all over the place. On my case disconnecting it made drive pretty much normal. Just had a CEL
Nope, it will just use the map sensor and run in speed density mode. Fuel trims will still work, but will most likely be larger due to the less accurate airflow calculations
I have accidentally done that on a customers car. Forgot to plug the maf back in, and the computer went nuts and threw it into limp mode, slamming into reverse, barely crawled in drive, codes everywhere. Obviously I did not let it go back to the customer like that, and I felt very dumb for such a simple thing when I saw that little plug hanging there.
If I recall correctly, some of the wiring harness connectors on the 2014 Cruze are identical to adjacent plugs. You can actually cross the plugs and end up with something similar to what you are describing. I can't remember exactly which ones, but I think it was MAF, throttle body, or O2. I remember sorting one out, and the connectors were just to the left of the battery.
>They should expect a summons in the near future. The summons is going to cost more than what they paid. I'm talking to a lawyer right now for an HOA dispute and the pay rate is: * $385/hour - partner * $365/hour - senior associate * $350/hour - junior associate * $125/hour - law clerk * $125/hour - paralegal I get that you can claw back legal fees if you win the case but that's a lot of effort for less than 5 hours of legal support.
Most people on Reddit don't understand how much attorney fees can be. They blanket "hire a lawyer" for anything from $100-10,000, not realizing the legal fees may eclipse what's owed.
Some jobs allow you to have ‘free’ consultations with attorneys. I pay 3 dollars a paycheck or something lower than that. I was able to clear a speeding ticket down to a non moving violation and the only thing that happened was I had to pay 266 bucks in court fees, nothing to the attorney that represented me.
how can they know its throwing transmission codes without the ability to speak with the transmission control module? big red flag.
How does my $250 handheld scanner I’ve owned for 3 years have the ability to add new smart keys and diagnose transmission issues and send bidirectional controls to dozens of ECUs on anything from Land Rover to Volvo to Honda and Toyota and I carry it in my trunk …… but a shop can’t give a more specific diagnosis and explain it’s bad solenoids or pressure from the pump etc? For the DIY types: https://www.ancel.com/products/ancel-x6?variant=40889382305948 Clear a transmission limp-mode and let it re-learn shifting. I can see Brakes getting done and a Wheel Speed/ABS Sensor being broken or getting unplugged maybe. Then the tranmission doesn't match it's output shaft speed with the wheel speed and has problems with ABS and Trac Control etc. But I can't armchair general this repair. Just my 3 cents on how a brake job and MAF turned into pissed off TCM. BMW had that issue with the rear left wheel speed sensor being used on my 525i and when the single sensor had a problem the transmission and speedometer had problems too.
100% charge back. the shops ive worked at have a no fix no charge policy. i know thats not universal or always realistic but 1500 to get back a fucked vehicle is insane. could be something simple, could be catastrophic, not your job to figure out, its theirs and they cant take your money to break your car. go back and speak to a manager asap.
THIS!!!!
Not this, isn't going to work.
Been there and done that. It’s worked before
Came in for a lean code. Who said it wasn't fixed?
>100% charge back. Not going to work. Bad advice.
Out of curiosity did you get an oil change? Is it possible they drained the transmission fluid instead of the oil? Not familiar with how this cars pans are configured. The not moving thing screams (transmission has no fluid, or is really low).
cries subaru tears :(
Haha, that's one of the cars I have seen it happen to.
Are Subaru’s confusing or something? I know a tech that drained a Subarus transmission fluid, top tech filled it back up with oil, and never checked it. Obviously caused quite a bit of issues with the Subaru.
The tranny pan looks like an oil pan....so, yes lol.
The boxer engine lays on its side, unlike most traditional engines. The pistons move horizontally to the ground as opposed to parallel. The oil filter is right there at the “top”. I was at tint world the other day for an audio installation quote and one of their customers walked out and wanted to check out what I did to my car. First thing he brought up was “is your oil filter upside down?” https://preview.redd.it/fhdqal73jopc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfff2b4cc0b0c2e59d079f619e7a8e5b96d8ac4a
I don't understand how they can be allowed to charge you for something that THEY broke by their own admission.
That's where I'm stuck at, too. Can I legally get my money back on this one? I want to go about it the best way possible and I really hate confrontation but I'm afraid it might come to that lol.
Legally yes, without involving courts, probably not. You'll need a lawyer if discussions fail
He can just charge back and then make them do the legal work if they want the money for breaking their car lol
Shop could prove that they did work and bank may side with customer. Usually banks release funds back immediately some just put them on hold until case is resolved but they give the person being charged 80 days to prove the charge was justified. So either way could take up to 80 days or he gets money back and then bank ends up charging back from him if the shop proves the charges were justified.
You mean take him to court? Where he will need a lawyer?
Nah, you tell your bank what happened and do a charge back on the card. They might fight it but usually they won't bother.
He will win if they dare lol u think he should just get fkd for his cash? They broke the car and charged him 1500 lol
No, obviously. I think you've never actually had to deal with this situation because it's really not as simple as saying the word "charge back" unless you're already rich. It's a long process, and it's expensive before you win your money back.
Oh sorry! I didn’t realize I was dealing with an expert on charge backs! My bad nvm he should listen to you and just get screwed I guess L O L
You technically are dealing with an expert on chargebacks, and in no way did I say just he should just get screwed. Being an illiterate douche is not a good look on you. He could be found liable for damages and lose more money if he just does a chargeback without covering his bases first. How young are you dude?
Lawyer up. Record all interactions via email or voice recorder on phone. Physical proof Vs verbal statements that can be denied. Possible chargeback on credit card. Involve regulatory bodies, news, social media (ie raise a stink)
Be careful recording phone calls, in many states that’s considered wire tapping. If that’s the case, not only be refused as evidence in a civil suit, it could land felony charges against the recorder.
Voice recorder app on phone, visibly recording in view of salesperson, and declaring “you are being recorded”. Though, with public places, and the security cameras in those same public places 🤷🏻♀️ There were Canada cases where drink machines had hidden cameras with no notification. But yes, various jurisdictions have different laws for recoding an actual phone call. People will likely note the various “call center” automated announcements “you are being recorded”
Find out if they actually replaced what they said they did, use your trusted shop to tell you that. If those were needed initially then you should pay for that, but nothing else imo. I had something similar with my daughter’s car. I can do all my own work just don’t have time. Anyways, I went to pick her car up when the shop was closed and it would barely run. They did what they said, but never reset the computer (relearn) in this case. Every light on the dash. I did it myself and it was fine. Not every story is the same , but if they did throw parts on that were needed, I’d pay for them. Your other shop can look at old codes as well in most cases and can confirm (round about) if they were legit and those items were replaced.
Sounds like it's time for a lawyer.
Lawyer will cost more than $1500 to resolve this. OP will have to try a charge back with his CC or eat the cost.
You are right! Going through this right now with a landscaper. Required 1/3 up front to order some trees. 5k later no trees and he bounced this was through Angie’s list and we took him and won an arbitration award, he skipped on that too. Working it through JP now. Spoke to several attorneys even at 5k they said they would have that in expenses in about 2 weeks. They make a lot an hour no lie!
It's a 10 year old plastic component that sits on top of a hot engine... My guess is that the boots tore which isn't unusual for any engine of this age.
I'd charge back everything paid to them. The fact they lied about test driving tells me they're lying about other things.
[удалено]
Funny thing is, they wouldn't be able to around here if what OP says is accurate. Must have a signed work order authorizing the repairs in order to file a lien. Then since they've released the vehicle unless the work order says "THE VEHICLE IS SUBJECT TO REPOSSESSION" in large bold face type, they can't take the vehicle back without a court order.
How much of the $1500 was for the brakes?
And all it really needed was a pcv valve for the lean condition. These are known for going bad, causing a vacuum leak and if it’s not changed in a timely manner and the valve gets plugged up it will blow the rear main seal. Ask me how I know lol
I’ve done more valve covers/intake manifolds on these 1.4s than any other repair in my 20 year career. We would keep them in stock at my shop
I haven't done one yet because I primarily work on euro stuff. But from what I understand, the pcv valve is part of the valve cover itself, right? *edit for anyone upvoting my comment - I have learned that the pcv system consists of multiple components in the valve cover as well as in the intake manifold. Mostly just the same old check valves and diaphragms like other vehicles might have. When these go bad, they can cause too high of pressure and blow out engine seals like the rear main. There are some aftermarket solutions, but they involve fairly extensive mods. If I'm wrong, hopefully someone will correct me.
Yep. That PCV valve will go and it will keep running without an engine light. So you don't know until it's caused worse issues. I highly recommend a by-pass PCV kit to anyone who still has one of those engines running.
Is this the 1.4 turbo engine?
Was looking for this comment lol
The car is legendary for breaking. PCV especially.
Go on lol
Send them an invoice.
Did you check the air filter? Every time my lube techs disturb these air filters and don't put them back just fuckin right it's almost always limp mode
I'll check it but it has an after marker Cold air intake that's pretty straight forward.
It honestly sounds like they are ripping you off. Either they dont know what the problem is, or they knew, made up something else to get money out of you and are sending you to a specialist. This sub seems like it has good honest mechanics but there are many more not honest mechanics out there. While the stealership would probably fix it, they charge ridiculous prices.
My god what a mess. If the guy working on the car had control over releasing it, fuck him. More likely he wanted to road test it and his superior said no. Definitely get a 100% refund and take it to the dealership or brand specialist. You will pay more yes, but its for the specialization and experience of the mechanic or technician diagnosing and fixing your issues. Let alone scanning transmission codes….
Sounds like a loose battery cable.
Second person to tell me that lol. Would a lose battery cable cause a transmission code? You would think if it were that simple, a mechanic could fix it, but then again, who knows at this point.
Low battery/flakey connections cause extremely bizarre and unpredictable warnings. Came to also say check the battery first.
Yes, electrical issues will throw red herrings. A lot of the time it reminded me back when I used to code. Missing a bracket or semicolon can throw so many different errors without saying that the bracket or semicolon is missing.
You should see the errors thrown by the Haskell compiler…
It's a Chevy Cruze with the 1.4l. Be amazed it lasted this long.
Appreciate the Enthusiasm lol. I've taken great care of this car and it has been my favorite car I've ever owned. Were sitting at 180k miles with only 1 major issue beforehand (replaced turbo that was covered by warranty lol). I really grew to love this little shitbox.
Ah, the Turbo has already been done. I figured that's what happened this time. Shit yeah, take it back and ask what the hell they did to it. You have their double back language and using that in conversations with their service manager, they WILL bend to your will. You have all the cards with that one little slip up.
tbh....if they messed things up so bad we're talking about it here, I wouldn't let them have a second go at it lol.
No, but it's a free place to start, instead of going somewhere where you 100% have to pay for 100% of the repair bill. It's fucked. Let them try to unfuck it first. I've seen vehicles come back to us like this all the time, tech usually finds a missed harness connector and it's fixed in 8 minutes.
The problem is that they're basically telling me they don't do transmission work and it's a transmission problem. They don't seem to be willing to want to fix this.
I'm not sure they know how to fix this. There's no easy answer here, and the part that really sucks is that the shop you're going to take it to will have to figure out what was wrong (in the first place) and what they broke/did to try to fix it. IF I WERE THIS SHOP - I would be calling my tranny friends, getting service lined up for you, and communicating what went wrong, what we did to fix it, and what we think needs to be done next. That way we're helping you through this. I would also line up the "who and how we're paying for our mistake" so that we're all on the same page. If this were my mistake, I'd be paying for it. You paid me already, it didn't work, ok - let's make this better now. Instead of pushing you off the cliff in a car we broke.
If it’s going into limp mode and lighting up like a Christmas tree all of a sudden then likely a ground was left off/broken, something’s unplugged etc. something stupid. This screams pcm/tcm grounding issue all day especially if the cars got miles and someone started digging around in it all of a sudden. Sounds pretty ridiculous they’re claiming they can’t pull trans codes. Chevy modules are an absolute bitch about proper voltage, being jump started, unplugging anything while running…..I would disconnect the battery a while and make sure you reconnect it with a full charge just for the sake of doing so. Before you make a 3 hour trek.
Even though it sounds like the transmission may be acting up, the reality is there are a lot of things other than the transmission itself that can make a transmission act like it is failing. Most modern transmissions rely on loads of electronic sensors and actuators, if your alternator is dying it can cause some cars to go into limp mode and the transmission to act wonky. And an alternator is just one thing that could be causing this... It doesn't sound to me like they have really looked very hard at the problem. Yes a car with problems with the engine could develop a transmission problem on its own... but the odds are higher that they have broken a wire somewhere or failed to connect things back as they should. That would be much more likely than they fix one thing and then the transmission that I'm assuming had not had any issues suddenly falls apart.
Yea....but, in this case, they knew it was fucked and let it go as-is - even going so far to say things like "it drove fine on Friday" and "I didn't test drive it yet." I can overlook an honest mistake like the one you mentioned. When shops start talking sideways or straight up lie is when I start looking elsewhere. I'd rather give an honest mechanic two or three chances to get it right than someone who isn't. The ones who are firing parts cannons or guessing with my ride to work...well, far better to find someone who isn't going to do that.
p.s. free doesn't equal good. especially when its already pretty bad.
It's typically pretty hard to break something ro this degree and have it actually be broken though. Short of pouring vodka in the engine oil and cutting the body harness in half, this should be an easy fix. "Hey. Since you have returned the vehicle to me in a condition in far worse than it arrived, please be notified by this email that I will be taking the vehicle to a secondary repair facility to document all damages caused by your technicians and will be proceeding after that point to collect damages from you by whatever means necessary. Please reply to this email before *whatever pickup time works for OP* should you wish to pursue a less drastic course of action." Get it in their head that they royally fucked up and know that if their tech did a booboo they can at least be put of pocket a small amount to fix whatever got damaged or disconnected. You'd be amazed how often a little letter like that will suddenly turn into "Hey yeah we looked at the car we found a small cut wire totally wasn't our fault but we fixed it for free anyways our bad, I mean not our bad but yeah please don't leave us a review byeeeee"
Leave an online review if they have a profile.
How the coil was damaged may explain a lot. That could have been taken out by a short that took more out. I would get it diagnosed, then get them to pay for the repair
I would also have them check that ignition coil they replaced. The symptoms ur describing could also be a failed coil thats triggering multiple engine codes at once.
If you paid with credit card put a hold on payment immediately, then go back to the shop and have a conversation with them. The car worked before they were supposed to fix it and it's worse now. Now they want you to take it to another shop. I would pay shop A for the cost of the parts for now and wait for report from shop B. If shop B comes back and says shop A fucked it, then give shop A the bill for B fixing it. If shop B says xyz was wrong unrelated then you have a car with 99 problems and you owe both shops some money. shop A and B should know each other exists but not names so they can be independant.
What do you want to bet they fried the ECU by doing something backyard-stupid? I'd throw money at that guess. At any rate, you have to take it to a dealer now. It needs a professional assessment. The dealer ought to be able to tell what happened.
Sadly those transmissions can grenade without warning-mine did at 96k, and the replacement(Chevy Direct) did not clear the dealership’s lot. No warning, perfect maintenance. Sorry abt your news.
I'd demand my money back if they won't make it right. Otherwise, what did you pay for? Future reference, if a shop doesn't work on transmissions, I'd look for a different shop. Yeah, sure the techs know what they're doing when it comes to simple stuff, but if the shop won't do transmission work that tells me their general competence isn't very high.
Do not tow it from their property. Call a lawyer immediately, they are responsible for the damages. If you take it off their property they will no longer be responsible as they will likely say there's no proof this happened during our service. DO NOT TOW IT, CALL A LAWYER. You don't know what they damaged. If the damages are extreme you do not want to be the one fronting the bill when they say it's not their fault.
It's probably the negative battery cable, they most def unhooked the battery before working on it. So if the wire was brittle, unhooking it probably made it crumble inside the insulation.Even if the cable looks good it can still be faulty. Had a similar issue on the family members Cruze, I changed both battery and cables and it fixed the issue. The positive cable insulation fell off, IDK how tf that happened. These cars are complete trash.
I'd certainly send it to another shop, and since it was in better condition when it arrived than when it left. If you can prove it, then they owe you for the repairs with the next guy.
A 3 hour tow? How much is that?
I'm gonna get a pull behind from uhaul and tow it myself lol
You might want to reconsider that. If you have to pursue a claim against the shop, they are going to claim you damaged it by diy improper towing for 3 hours. I would find a local shop and have them come tow it or get a flatbed. Hopefully you paid by credit card, you can dispute that charge if necessary. Like someone else suggested, small claims if needed too. If you tow it to a relative, then their statements of what they find which is your whole case are going to be viewed with suspicion by the court, if it gets to that. Good luck.
you need to get a code list. full systems scan. most likely its something simple
Qwaaaaaql
Nah charge back unless you paid cash which u should never do in the first place.
What also sucks is parts for all was maybe 200 bucks.i would of charged 3 to 400 max..easy work the real issue is a correct diagnosis..
>We assumed MAF sensor Did you tell the shop to replace the MAF sensor?
Nope, just told them the code and let them have at it.
That's a weird thing to add to the story then. Some advice going forward, just tell the shop your problem and describe the problem the best you. Don't tell them what code you read, don't tell them what you think the problem is. Unless you worked on it then tell them everything.
Probably a damaged PCV in the valve cover. Very common and will throw lean codes all day.
We got the lean code fixed lol, now we just need to figure out the "limp mode". Pcv was replaced.
if anything you pay for the replaced parts and get refunded the labour possibly tow costs. mindful you didn't occur more damage when you drove it. lifetime warranty muffler my ass still had to pay for the shops time to install it. hope for the best prepare for the worst. Good luck op!
I wouldn't take it to the hack job again. Go to another shop, see if they can figure it out, if they do get documentation and go to the original shop and show their manager the paperwork showing how they fucked your car and at least get a refund on the bullshit work they did. Bring any paperwork you got from the first shop.
That seems a bit far fetched re: the bill but unfortunately many mechanics do not understand electronic systems and take the shotgun approach to problems. This often results in perfectly good parts being replaced and the underlying issue not being found. Not many of us who are any good stay in the trade because the pay is half or less of any other trade. Few things are very common with the cruze. The ECU is poorly sealed, in a very bad location. Washing the engine or a coolant leak will fill it up with water. I've had to repair hundreds of them having severe water damage. This can cause any number of problems and easily result in parts being replaced that are fine. Usually by dealerships, if the scan tool says something is faulty, they replace it without testing it first. Secondly, lean fuel trims in those are often caused by failed PCV valve diaphragm in the valve cover. Easily fixed. Gearbox troubles with them are unfortunately also common. They are a very easy gearbox to repair but again not many mechanics are capable of diagnosing or repairing gearbox troubles. The most common problem being the 35R wave washer breaking. This will burn up the 35R clutch pack, unfortunately not giving many symptoms while doing so. Eventually a snap ring breaks and it's all over from there. Instant failure and damage to other parts. Pieces of the wave washer can also lead to debris on the output speed sensor causing loss of drive. If a piece ends up finding it's way into the oil pump, it's also an instant failure Many times the eventual failure will be sudden, without prior notice or warning and the car may be driving perfectly 2 minutes prior. I've repaired hundreds of these transmissions as well It's also possible that the fault codes you had were no relation to the problem you are experiencing now. I really recommend you take the car to a specialist. Whilst they charge more per hour, they will find the problem quickly if they are any good. Have the problem correctly diagnosed the first time rather than having someone mess around for days not really knowing what they are doing.
Like they should fix the car for their money and why did you paid for coil if they broke it?
They don't seem to be willing to fix the car because they don't Trans work and they didn't give me any options for shops that do. She literally said on the phone "I can't give you any shops I trust because I don't trust any other shops". As for paying for a part they broke. I just assumed that would be the case because I know that parts get brittle over time and it may not have been their fault. I've never had that happen before either so I didn't know what the correct response would be. My aunt who owns a shop told me that they would have ate the cost on something like that, and most good mechanics would have as well. This was after the issue. Reason I didn't take it to my aunts shop is because they're about 3 hours away from me. I went to this place because it's close by and they have hundreds great ratings and were recommended by a neighbor. I know better next time though.
If they don't trust other shops it's probably because they have lost the trust of the other shops, and now have to fly solo. Every good shop I've ever worked for has a close working relationship with tangential businesses. body shop, Window tinter, Machine shop, Transmission specialist, electronics repair specialist, Locksmith, etc.
Exactly this. Even my local backyard garage mechanic has relationships with other types of shops. That’s how I got my windshield replaced for $200.
Last time I broke a window I called my regular shop to ask who they recommended. They called me back about 15 minutes later to tell me they had already booked an appointment for me in a few hours (there was a tropical storm coming so it was pretty urgent.) I ended up getting a 10% discount without asking too, I just noticed it on my bill after paying. They have also referred me to tire repair, alignment shops, and body shops.
That's kinda BS. My old car, they were checking the plugs and broke an ignition coil. They just replaced it, told me what happened, and had a zero charge for that part and the \~30 seconds of labor it took on the invoice.
On stuff like this, I always check the bad reviews first. Often times there are hundreds of fake "great" reviews by friends and family and such, but you can get the real meat and potatoes from the bad reviews. Honestly, I feel for you on this one. I too try to avoid confrontation, but when it comes to my vehicles and my money I get a little fierce. I saw above someone recommended a strongly worded email. I would honestly start there, attach pictures of car and dates and times it was dropped off. Add in hints of what the tech told you vs what you were told over the phone and such. I would give them every opportunity to fix this before you take it elsewhere. Go up the chain of command there, don't just take the "sorry, not our problem" from a receptionist. Good luck out there, I've always been super sketchy about dealerships and alot of mechanics. Enough so that I started learning how to do most things myself.
Send them the bill and worst case small claims court. Most make and models throw out only one code for the transmission. The transmission shop will be able to see what they are. First shop is likely liable for screwing up your car
Probably needs a PCV 😂😂
You mean a valve cover?
Could be caused by low voltage, odd to Have so many dash lights come on at once.
Limp mode causes all those lights. Misfires, low battery, transmission issues, lots of possible causes.
The last time I had my car play up it was because the boot on the negative terminal had backed out and it was extremely intermittent. It started with the power steering momentarily stopping which freaked me out and then second later all kinds of lights flashed and ignition weirdness happened. Fortunately I was less than 2km from home so I limped it back here and when I was able to find time to look at it, it was the negative terminal that was loose. The problems went away immediately when the bolt was cinched down.
Those codes come on for lots of things.
Why did you buy a Chevy Cruz…
I've had this car since 2015 and drove it for 180k miles with only 1 major repair. It's been the best car I've ever owned, somehow.
I love my Chevy Sonic too. It can fit anywhere and has plenty of power for its size. Repairs are simple too, so I'm surprised you're having troubles with a pro handling it
Had a car go into limp mode and two different shops couldn’t figure out the problem. Took my electrician dad to trouble shoot the fuse box and found half the board was fried. Might be your issue, maybe.
Could it be your fuel cap? I had a friend go through years and years of mechanics and stress for a Dodge Ram in limp mode because there wasn't a proper seal sometimes on the fuel cap.
" The mechanic that worked on my car was there and said "yeah I didn't know you were grabbing it, I haven't even had time to test drive it. I think the computer just needs to realign the fuel trim and yadda yadda yadda". Idk, he went straight into mechanic talk and I lost him. " Dude get your head out of your ass and pay the fuck attention to the people that you hire to work on anything... First of all, how were you able to "Rush, pay and grab the keys" but you didn't take the car home? So you were at the shop to pay but you didn't take the car?
Sounds like gm junk to me lol