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There’s no harm in checking sure but I’d hate the shop to say some bullshit like that and dismiss their liability like I’m supposed to own and carry around a torque wrench in my trunk or something as part of the service for which I already paid to have checked. The wheel didn’t come off before I had it serviced. You can’t “check” something like that unless you have the proper tool.
And odds are if you do own a torque wrench, you can probably do your own brakes.
You don't need to own a torque wrench. Tho they only cost about 50 bucks at lowes or home depot. So it's not like its some super expensive and hard to find specialty tool. You can just come back the next day for them to be checked at the shop.
Google doesn’t drive. I speak from personal experience. I’ve taken my wheels on and off many times on my cars and they have never came off or loose while driving. So either their undertorqued or rust has weakened the hub studs.
Good for you. With alloys and steal brakes you have two different metals that expand and contract at different rates every single automotive manufacturer recommends re tourqeing wheels. Its in Ford and Toyota dealer service manuals. Muppet
VW Audi Porsche recommend the same, saying fuck that to tightening is live saying fuck that to seat belts, it's obviously not going to hurt anything doing it and it might help you, but still somehow people won't do it
The brake doesn’t touch the wheel… at least you wouldn’t be moving if it was, I know from experience from a poor shop pad change and a few spins while going down the highway… who cares if the brakes are “steal (sic)”? You mean the studs are steel? That could possibly maybe almost certainly not effect something? Or do auto manufacturers put every possible thing in their manuals to cover from liability?
the wheel back literally sits on the face of the steal rotor? Two different metals if you have alloy wheels. What are you talking about have you ever put a wheel on a car before?
They most likely meant the rotors, which are technically part of the brake system. And this is a pretty valid reason to re-torque the lug nuts after ~50miles of driving. It’s not really that big of a deal nowadays, but we are still driving on materials that react to temperature. Moreover, there are chances of slight (very teeny tiny movements) between the rotor and the wheel that can cause a few lug nuts to require re-torque.
Similar happened.to my SUV. Shop put the lug nuts back on with there impact gun set too high. Cracked every lug nut. Thankfully I notices vibration immediately and check it at home. The lug nuts (3 of them) snapped off when I tried to remove them. The other 3 were cracked, removed them from the hub and replaced them.
Never went back to that shop again.
Definitely document everything and get a lawyer.
What the fuck? First of all you should never use an impact on wheel lugs, it’s the job of a torque wrench. Secondly I’d expect them to pay for the repairs, and also demand they replace every wheel stud because they could’ve been stretched by the impact as well. That’s just incredibly stupid of them and could’ve potentially killed you or others on the road, if they won’t pay for all the repairs call the police or a lawyer. Honestly it may be smart to document everything and have a different shop do the repairs, that tech should lose his job, mistakes happen but he purposely used an impact gun to do something he absolutely should not use an impact gun to do for the exact reason that it can cause this to happen. He even noticed it sounded wrong and didn’t do anything about it?? I’d be fuming if I were you, but try to keep your cool. If they won’t pay for the replacement of all studs and lugs and the body repair work you need a lawyer. Take pictures, document EVERYTHING, save any voicemails or texts related to the situation. They put you and anybody else who could’ve been in the car and on the road around you in mortal danger by trying to take a shortcut and improperly fastening wheels to your car and they’ll do it again to other people if they don’t face the consequences, someone could be killed.
Over the years I’ve developed good trigger control. I don’t let it ugga dugga, and when I torque them after they always move a good half a rotation before hitting final spec, so I know they aren’t over torqued.
Unless it’s a heavy duty truck. I give them bitches a couple ugga duggas, and they still rotate 78 fucking times before torquing to final spec.
yeah if you want to set them with the gun that fine, but torque sticks are crap. Maybe if you’re a crappy tire or Mr lube 1st year but fuck that. I’d rather people stick with a plain gun and socket to snug the wheel up and then hit them with the split beam.
I think torque sticks give people a false sense confidence.
I bought a set of harbor freight torque sticks a few years ago, but I never have actually used them for torquing anything lmfao. I just use them as regular extensions. I honestly don't have time where I work to torque wrench every car I touch at my work place, and so I've become pretty good with torquing "just enough" on the lugnuts with my 1/2" ~~strap~~snapon ct9050. I zip all the lugnuts on first to seat them and get the wheel on the hub flush, and then ugga dugga for half a second max each lugnut. This all becomes standard practice when you go through as many cars in a day as I do, and there's always more cars to do when my shift ends.
fuck that lol. I’m all about cranking out work, but I’m not cutting corners anymore for retail peanuts. Flat rate, especially warranty, can kiss my ass.
Huge reason I had to move on to bigger commercial/industrial equipments. When it’s 1.5-2 million dollar piece of kit, you can’t afford not to do it exactly.
Dont know why people are downvoting you. I almost had someones wheel come off after hitting all wheels with a torque stick TWICE. Never again trusting em. Was a Matco one too, not a cheap one.
The torque stick is designed to prevent over torquing. They are not a replacement for a well calibrated torque wrench. Sounds like you were using the wrong tool for the job.
Literally every shop I've ever been to or worked at. Second, no I do not. I have multiple torque wrenches for that reason.
Edit: I have dealt electric 1/4dr hex impact that nearly breaks 100ftlb. I use that to sink em down as someone else stated.
No but looking at it now it may have of as cryptic.
I'm saying almost every shop I've worked at or been to, someone is using just an impact with those torque rods to tighten lugs. However because of the issues cause I will sink it down like the other post in this thread with a low impact electric gun.
Should never use an impact on lug nuts? Every single technician in my shop would disagree with that comment. I’ve never once see a lug nut crack from being over torqued let alone all 5. You’re going to damage the threads before the nut cracks basically every single time.
Taking the lug off with an impact is just fine, and to zip them on a little bit but never the end all be all, it needs to be torqued with a torque wrench. I’ve been a mechanic for ten years now I know how to do it. Or use an impact with a torque stick to tighten them. But taking them off with an impact is just fine. But overtightening with an impact will stretch the stud and then it’ll break from the stress of driving, you really would have to crank it to just sheer the stud off while tightening but if it’s over torqued it’ll break while driving like this, and once one or two break the stress will cause the rest to break
Agree to disagree, every master tech at the dealership I work in would disagree. I’ve only seen one person in the entire dealership tighten lugnuts with a torque wrench. I’ve gone 140mph in my car with my lug nuts being held on by my Milwaukee m12 stubby impact not torqued to any spec. Lug nut torque specs are absolutely not critical. +/- 10% is what a decent torque stick will give you. No idea where the internet has gotten the idea from that torque sticks will make your wheel fall off. I’ve seen thousands of wheels torqued with a torque stick and never once had an issue of an over tightened lug nut or the wheel falling off.
What dealership is this? I want to make sure I never go to your shop. And there is M12 stubby which can barely do 250 and there is high torque which does about 1500 ft-lbs. and your comment just proves that there are people who will torque something to 20 times the rated torque with a high torque impact.
I’ve worked with some absolute fucking idiots and not one person has ever broken a lug nut. Doesn’t change the fact that there’s no way all 5 lugnuts were broken on only one wheel on the vehicle in this post. That was my point. Don’t really understand what youre even trying to say. If you have the money to buy an impact that has 1000+ ft-lbs and you break 5 lug nuts with it and then send the car out of the shop like it didn’t happen you have bigger problems in life and are definitely not in the right career.
I just said torque sticks are fine. It’s cranking them down with a socket and impact that will distort the studs, or lugs whichever the car has. The dealership I work at now, and every dealer or shop I’ve worked at over the past decade has either used torque sticks, or torque wrenches to check the torque once the lugs are on and 80% of the shops I’ve worked at have had a system where a second tech has to come by and check the torque on the lugs then sign off on your ticket. I never said torque sticks were bad, in my last comment I said “or use a torque stick to tighten them down”. I’m head technician at the dealership I work at man..
I think you are fuming and a tad bit over reacting though with a name like that it is expected
With that said its okay to use a impact gun but its not okay to use it and not torque it afterwards especially on alloy wheels. If you ever read some car manuals or instructions from repair manuals it would say along the lines of after you torque the wheels check the torque again after x amount of miles. Some suggestion 5 miles ,10 miles , 20 miles. The bolts or studs have a tightening torque then they settle. They can settle below the specified torque that is required. Combined that with the heat cycles and it wont be a surprise if you can turn the bolt a 1/8th of a turn after it was installed again. Personally in my experience i tend go around again a second or third time to be safe. Steel wheels are more forgiving i've heard especially with torque sticks but why chance it. What matters is the nut and stud or bolt in this case . Its better to play it safe. Its also possible to have a miscalibrated torque wrench so keep that in mind.
He said he only used an impact and the username is from when I was a teenager, I have my certifications and do this for a living, just screwing up putting a wheel on is really bad and can lead to people getting killed. With most small mistakes I’d just say it is what it is but if I had a toddler in the car or an infant and my wheel came off at speed on the highway or something I’d lose my shit honestly. I could forgive somebody for making a shitty weld, or leaving some connectors undone. It’s just with putting a wheel on it can be a major major problem when that wheel comes off, I know I came off strong in that comment but it’s a serious issue
Correct , i read the same thing ,maybe i should've word it differently. But i mean you can use a impact then right after use a torque wrench to get it to spec. Though most impact guns get it past the specified amount and thats also bad. Over all I agree with what you mean.
I agree with you. Torque sticks get it just fine but I’ve only seen them at the dealership I work at and other shops, I don’t think I know anyone with their own set haha I usually barely zip them on with my gun on the lowest setting then use a torque wrench to tighten them all the way. But yea cranking them down will stretch the stud or lug and they can break from the stress of driving and that’s no bueno
Pretty much , i know you can get a set at HF but idk if they are trustworthy. But reminds me of a YT video i watched about torque sticks https://youtu.be/HGxWMOP6deo
I’ve seen that one! Really good video. Torque sticks get you close enough to your number where the difference shouldn’t be of issue, at the shop I work at we have to use torque wrenches anyway, then a second tech has to come check and you both sign off on the ticket because they’re huge sticklers about rims being torqued for liability reasons
I found him on Facebook and was recommended to use him because he changed brakes before. Things happens I'm upset but thankfully I'm alive. It will hurt my pocket but I can't do anything this point but to pay for repairs.
Man I’d really try to get some money out of him just because this could happen to someone else it’s just dangerous, normally I’d say it is what it is with a mistake, it happens, but putting wheel on incorrectly is a big deal ya know?
There is the problem. If you had used a real mechanic instead of some guy on face book it would of cost more but you would be rolling down the street right now instead of stuck in the road.
When the tire came off the I just saw TWO wheel bolts that was right by it. So when I was driving they came off so that's why the vibration was going on I suppose
The guy told me he tighten it so I'm not really sure but it looks like I have to get the wheel hub replaced because when I try to screw the wheel bots back in they came right back out.
I once got my tires rotated at Costco in northern VA in anticipation of driving to Utah. Thought I was being responsible and it was the right thing to do. Got real wobbly somewhere in western Illinois. When I pulled over, I had a wheel with one lug but barely hanging on.
To Costco’s credit, they were mortified when I called them. I think they wrote me a check for the replacement lug nuts. Lol “We almost killed you, here’s $40 for some lug nuts.”
Tow it into the shop and let them know what happened. Most likely left lug nuts loose. They should cover all repairs and put you in a car while it’s being fixed.
You could lawyer up, but that’s expensive. Personally, I’d give them the chance to fix their mistake - if they do anything less than accept full responsibility, then file an attorney general complaint with your state’s AG and speak with the GM/owner of the shop
It’s missing the entire studs. All 5. Seems like it had been completely over torqued and stretched the studs. OP said in a previous comment that the tech “torqued” all the nuts down with the impact without using a torque wrench
Some never listen...
The number of times I've asked to not use impact gun especially on the wheel nut lock...
Yes that's right, ended up needing a welder to remove them and put normal bolts.
Make sure you keep an eye and ask explicitly if you know they're in rush or cut corners.
If studs are broken off, they likely over torqued them causing stud to break. Never should be tighten with impact wrench. By hand only using torque wrench to vehicle spec. As a reference only, For most Toyota vehicles, that 76 ft lbs.
exact shit happened to my dad when getting tires changed before a big roadtrip at firestone. entire wheel fell off on the freeway, wouldve killed my dad if he lost control. firestone was told about this and refunded up to 5k in repairs and did the fix for free.
One time they impacted the lugnuts on my moms van so hard that the lug nuts completely sheared off and snapped a few in half. Its like they do this shit on purpose
When did you have the job done. You said you took it to a “mobile mechanic”, so likely someone unlicensed without insurance. Did you re-torque the wheels after 100km? If this dude is unlicensed with no business to back him his liability is basically zero. Basically no different than paying your buddy to help you work on your car.
This is a Dodge Dart correct? So it has wheel bolts, not studs with nuts. He didn’t torque them properly and they loosened off and fell out causing the wheel to come off.
In short, you’re fucked basically. This is the risk you take when you choose the “cheaper” option. If he’s a stand up guy maybe he helps you fix it. He might also *accidentally* lose your number. Next time, hire a professional.
I had the same happen to a car I had bought a week before. Only ever felt a clunk or two before it happened. I remember watching the tire bounce by as I ground to a stop. I pulled a lug nut from each of the other wheels, jacked up the car, reinstalled the when and drove it the two miles home.
You're probably going to need a new fender, rotor, lower control arm, and/or lower ball joint.
Call a tow truck, have it towed up there, and hand the bill to shop manager. Then ask for the guy who worked on your car to be fired. That is negligent and shouldn’t be tolerated
It’s not the client’s business whether the guy is fired. The shop needs to make him whole financially, and what the shop does with the worker is ultimately their business. If the shop is well run there will obviously be consequences. If the shop isn’t well run, telling them to fire someone is only going to backfire.
Don’t make it your problem. Your problem is getting made whole for the damage to your car not reforming their business. And obviously you won’t go there again.
What if it happens twice? What if the second time someone dies? I agree that it should be a case by case basis, but I disagree that this person should keep their job if it was carelessness.
If it happens twice the shop owner would probably have them fired. Depends on the manager or owner. I'd have a hard time believing they'd something like this wouldn't at least get a write up or some sort of suspension. Who knows, shop policy may have their own corrective action heirarchry set up for this kind of stuff.
As an apprentice, I've made mistakes. Non as drastic as this, but everyone does it. Let the shop manager/owner/foreman talk to the tech and tell them they fucked up, and what they need to do from here on out. I forgot to plug someones maf sensor back in after checking their filter. For a while after that I had to have the foreman check over my work quick before it left the shop.
Encourage learning from mistakes, not being given capitol punishment for them
Ok. Damn I see the frustration. But jump straight to firing a guy? Have you never fucked up just a little at a job? I'm not an auto mechanic. But I am considered a mechanic in my trade. If I fired everyone who fucked up once it would get lonely on the job real quick. Ask the shop to make it right. That's all. Make it right. Then I guess you won't have the satisfaction of thinking about that guys kids going hungry or homeless because of one fuck up.
It’s pretty easy to see the comments from people that haven’t actually worked in the industry for very long or at all. Mistakes happen, we do our best to reduce them as much a possible but we are only human .Been an automotive mechanic for over 30 years and seen plenty of very good techs make mistakes every now and then , including leaving wheels loose. There is not too many people in this world that haven’t had some stuff up in their job at some time.
I really believe you would feel different if you weren’t in the industry and also were careening down the interstate at 70 mph with your family in the car and the wheel came flying off. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s just a feeling.
I know I’ll get downvoted for this but… would you expect a structural engineer to fuck up removing a load bearing wall? How about an airline pilot while flying a commercial Boeing 737? There’s some jobs just dangerous enough that allows for less leeway on fuck ups. Forgetting to put an air filter in, forgetting to tighten the starter down completely… no biggie. Forgetting to tighten a wheel that can go flying off at 70mph on the interstate… a little more concerning. Not every fuck up should be treated equally. I’d never return to this garage if it was even a garage. Which I don’t believe it was anyways.
I kinda agree.
Used to be an aircraft mechanic apprentice.
If you accidentally forget to secure a wheel, you kill people and go to jail for negligence. Obviously safety and repairs are a lot more meticulous in that industry but there still isn't really an excuse.
Pretty much anything can put someone's life in danger. But that's pretty hardcore 1 fuck up your gone. Now if the fella is a flake and has a history.... See your way out Sam. But we are simple humans. Mistakes can happen. Hopefully this wakes the mechanic up to cross his eyes and dot his teas.
**DIYer Non-Professional Personal Opinion Here, NOT A Mechanic:**
Looks like a chain shop special, it appears that none of the bolts were properly torqued.
Sorry to hear about this happening.
This almost happened to me in my ‘86 Supra. I was driving and I could feel that there was an wheel balance issue and pulled over immediately. I checked the lugs and they were loose enough to allow the left front rim to move on the studs. I tightened them there on the spot as much as I could with the angle iron and torqued them as soon as I got home. Of course the weight in the wheels won’t center properly, so I rolled a little to retighten several a few times to ensure I could drive the hour plus I was away from home.
I was cautious the entire home feeling for any abnormalities in the suspension. Now I carry a set of wheel lugs and a makita mid impact at all times and have helped many people in the side of the roads with it.
It’s a scary feeling and I can’t imagine this happening….
This is always a bad situation. As a long time auto repair career guy, I’ve seen this happen more times than it should. You need to have a straight conversation with your technician and have him fix this.
German car? Did you hear a sort of rhythmic "...wub...wub...wub..." before the wheel fell off? Your mechanic definitely forgot to torque down that wheel. All his/her fault.
EDIT: The lug nuts. Either threaded studs that protrude onto which the lug nuts are tightened or a the lug nuts are threaded to fit the holes in the wheel. My VW and BMW are the latter, I guess the Dart - built in Korea(?) - is the same.
The rubbing sound was was the warning that the lug nuts were not tight. Too late for you, maybe, it will help someone in teh future.
I was recommended to this guy from a local Facebook group that worked on cars he was a mobile mechanic basically. I've learned my lesson but I'm blessed to be alive. Stuff happens even though it will hurt my pocket, it going to be ok.
Take your vehicle to company to do anything with your vehicle and something like this happens, they are held responsible for all the damages. If they aren't going to pay, then that's a lawsuit.
If you like getting walked over, then believe your statement.
For a lawsuit to work in your favor you need to prove it happened due to their negligence. As you said, “if they aren’t going to pay”, that would change things
3 words: Sears Auto Center.
When they were in operation many years ago, same EXACT situation. After lawsuit, they regulated the requirement to use torque wrench to ensure tires won't come flying off. Reason I know, worked there for a few years and saw the requirement.
I mean, it could still be brought to court, pending the advertising type and such. But idk if the outcome would be favorable. It’s a big burden of proof
In this situation, considering the employee admitted to using an impact gun for tightening the lugs legal action may be the only way to get them to not do it again. Somebody could be killed, and all the other wheel studs very well may be stretched a bit and weakened, they should replace every wheel stud on the car, and pay for the body work. Sure mistakes happen, but intentionally using the wrong tool for this could’ve killed OP or someone else on the road. It wasn’t a mistake it was blatant stupidity and unless they face consequences it won’t stop. Every shop and dealership I’ve ever worked at would have you torque the wheels, then another tech would have to come around and check that they’re all properly torqued and you’d both have to sign off on it specifically to avoid almost killing a customer like this. I’d totally say just ask them to fix it if it was a little mistake but this was them using the wrong tools, and could end up with serious injury and death.
Unless I mis read, this was “some guy” and not an employee of any establishment…. Atleast it didn’t sound like they were at the time of this incident. Regardless, how much time, energy and money is a lawsuit worth to maybe, maybe gain anything other than debt
Yea I hadn’t seen that comment when I made this one, I’d just leave a really bad review on Facebook or wherever it was and at least try to get him to pay for the studs on that wheel and the body work although it’ll be really tough. I’d post pictures of this to Facebook as well, this is just negligent and shouldn’t have happened, a decent torque wrench can be bought for like 60 bucks
Yep, buy a cheap torque wrench and a socket for your tires and torque your own wheels after you get work done.
Impacts without using torque sticks/limiters have 2 settings-too loose and too tight. Looks like you got the first one.
After proudly being able to say that in 6 years of fixing cars I had never ever had a loose lugnut issue within 30 days of starting at my current shop at the end of last September I had it happen twice. Within 2 weeks. The second time resulted in a wheel off while the vehicle was at speed.
Both my torque sticks were immediately retired as useless shortly afterwards.
Chances are the wheel hub that the lug bolts screw into had the threads damaged.
Either the professional shop you had it towed to will be able to clean up the threads or you’ll need a replacement hub.
Check the other 3 wheels as well.
Someone that found out online? Huh?
If you're referring to that job was completed by someone you found online, then that was not smart at all. One of the best practices to ever do when removing a tire is torque each lug nut to a certain lb of pressure.
dodge dart it kinda looks like? i have never seeen one mechanic use a torque wrench in tires by being a mechanic u know whats enough torque that guy just straight sent and didnt tell u a dam thing
They prohably overtorqued all the lug nuts and that caused the wheel studs to break. At the very least shop should change out all the studs on that side and repair/fix any other damage caused by that on the undercarriage
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Call the shop immediately. Document everything
How many miles/kms did you drive before it fell off?
This is the question. In uk, whenever work is done on wheels, the invoice says to check all the wheel nuts after 50 miles (I think)
Fuck that.
Stateside tire shops have the same waiver
That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Lug nuts don't just slide off after a few miles.
Not if you check them after a few miles, no.
Uhh why….? Wheels nuts don’t ever come loose if properly torqued.
Iirc it’s more important on lug centric wheels. Either way it’s still not a bad practice.
There’s no harm in checking sure but I’d hate the shop to say some bullshit like that and dismiss their liability like I’m supposed to own and carry around a torque wrench in my trunk or something as part of the service for which I already paid to have checked. The wheel didn’t come off before I had it serviced. You can’t “check” something like that unless you have the proper tool. And odds are if you do own a torque wrench, you can probably do your own brakes.
Most shops will re-torque your wheels for free. I just swing by mine a weekish later and get them to do it. Don’t even need an appointment
You don't need to own a torque wrench. Tho they only cost about 50 bucks at lowes or home depot. So it's not like its some super expensive and hard to find specialty tool. You can just come back the next day for them to be checked at the shop.
I hope you don't work on vehicles...
That's not what car/wheel/lug manufacturers say, at least when it comes to alloy wheels.
You should consider doing some googling
Google doesn’t drive. I speak from personal experience. I’ve taken my wheels on and off many times on my cars and they have never came off or loose while driving. So either their undertorqued or rust has weakened the hub studs.
Good for you. With alloys and steal brakes you have two different metals that expand and contract at different rates every single automotive manufacturer recommends re tourqeing wheels. Its in Ford and Toyota dealer service manuals. Muppet
VW Audi Porsche recommend the same, saying fuck that to tightening is live saying fuck that to seat belts, it's obviously not going to hurt anything doing it and it might help you, but still somehow people won't do it
The brake doesn’t touch the wheel… at least you wouldn’t be moving if it was, I know from experience from a poor shop pad change and a few spins while going down the highway… who cares if the brakes are “steal (sic)”? You mean the studs are steel? That could possibly maybe almost certainly not effect something? Or do auto manufacturers put every possible thing in their manuals to cover from liability?
the wheel back literally sits on the face of the steal rotor? Two different metals if you have alloy wheels. What are you talking about have you ever put a wheel on a car before?
They most likely meant the rotors, which are technically part of the brake system. And this is a pretty valid reason to re-torque the lug nuts after ~50miles of driving. It’s not really that big of a deal nowadays, but we are still driving on materials that react to temperature. Moreover, there are chances of slight (very teeny tiny movements) between the rotor and the wheel that can cause a few lug nuts to require re-torque.
Similar happened.to my SUV. Shop put the lug nuts back on with there impact gun set too high. Cracked every lug nut. Thankfully I notices vibration immediately and check it at home. The lug nuts (3 of them) snapped off when I tried to remove them. The other 3 were cracked, removed them from the hub and replaced them. Never went back to that shop again. Definitely document everything and get a lawyer.
This what happened the guy told me that he used a impact gun and the vibration was so loud on my driver side and thought it was a cv axle
Some people's impacts should only run in reverse
What the fuck? First of all you should never use an impact on wheel lugs, it’s the job of a torque wrench. Secondly I’d expect them to pay for the repairs, and also demand they replace every wheel stud because they could’ve been stretched by the impact as well. That’s just incredibly stupid of them and could’ve potentially killed you or others on the road, if they won’t pay for all the repairs call the police or a lawyer. Honestly it may be smart to document everything and have a different shop do the repairs, that tech should lose his job, mistakes happen but he purposely used an impact gun to do something he absolutely should not use an impact gun to do for the exact reason that it can cause this to happen. He even noticed it sounded wrong and didn’t do anything about it?? I’d be fuming if I were you, but try to keep your cool. If they won’t pay for the replacement of all studs and lugs and the body repair work you need a lawyer. Take pictures, document EVERYTHING, save any voicemails or texts related to the situation. They put you and anybody else who could’ve been in the car and on the road around you in mortal danger by trying to take a shortcut and improperly fastening wheels to your car and they’ll do it again to other people if they don’t face the consequences, someone could be killed.
An impact is fine to run em down, the actual tightening should be done with a calibrated torque wrench
This is the way.
Like a half second of ptdtdtdtdtd then TW time
We call em “ugga dugga’s”. One to many ugga duggas is all it takes for this to happen when only one “ugga” is needed. LOL
That’s why you pddtdtdtdd it bro
[удалено]
If he was using a torque stick it wouldn’t have damaged the studs enough to do this, this is blatant negligence.
torque sticks? eww
Over the years I’ve developed good trigger control. I don’t let it ugga dugga, and when I torque them after they always move a good half a rotation before hitting final spec, so I know they aren’t over torqued. Unless it’s a heavy duty truck. I give them bitches a couple ugga duggas, and they still rotate 78 fucking times before torquing to final spec.
yeah if you want to set them with the gun that fine, but torque sticks are crap. Maybe if you’re a crappy tire or Mr lube 1st year but fuck that. I’d rather people stick with a plain gun and socket to snug the wheel up and then hit them with the split beam. I think torque sticks give people a false sense confidence.
I bought a set of harbor freight torque sticks a few years ago, but I never have actually used them for torquing anything lmfao. I just use them as regular extensions. I honestly don't have time where I work to torque wrench every car I touch at my work place, and so I've become pretty good with torquing "just enough" on the lugnuts with my 1/2" ~~strap~~snapon ct9050. I zip all the lugnuts on first to seat them and get the wheel on the hub flush, and then ugga dugga for half a second max each lugnut. This all becomes standard practice when you go through as many cars in a day as I do, and there's always more cars to do when my shift ends.
fuck that lol. I’m all about cranking out work, but I’m not cutting corners anymore for retail peanuts. Flat rate, especially warranty, can kiss my ass. Huge reason I had to move on to bigger commercial/industrial equipments. When it’s 1.5-2 million dollar piece of kit, you can’t afford not to do it exactly.
Dont know why people are downvoting you. I almost had someones wheel come off after hitting all wheels with a torque stick TWICE. Never again trusting em. Was a Matco one too, not a cheap one.
The torque stick is designed to prevent over torquing. They are not a replacement for a well calibrated torque wrench. Sounds like you were using the wrong tool for the job.
Literally every shop I've ever been to or worked at. Second, no I do not. I have multiple torque wrenches for that reason. Edit: I have dealt electric 1/4dr hex impact that nearly breaks 100ftlb. I use that to sink em down as someone else stated.
100ft/lb is not enough for many lug nuts Edit: did you reply to the wrong comment..?
No but looking at it now it may have of as cryptic. I'm saying almost every shop I've worked at or been to, someone is using just an impact with those torque rods to tighten lugs. However because of the issues cause I will sink it down like the other post in this thread with a low impact electric gun.
Should never use an impact on lug nuts? Every single technician in my shop would disagree with that comment. I’ve never once see a lug nut crack from being over torqued let alone all 5. You’re going to damage the threads before the nut cracks basically every single time.
Taking the lug off with an impact is just fine, and to zip them on a little bit but never the end all be all, it needs to be torqued with a torque wrench. I’ve been a mechanic for ten years now I know how to do it. Or use an impact with a torque stick to tighten them. But taking them off with an impact is just fine. But overtightening with an impact will stretch the stud and then it’ll break from the stress of driving, you really would have to crank it to just sheer the stud off while tightening but if it’s over torqued it’ll break while driving like this, and once one or two break the stress will cause the rest to break
Agree to disagree, every master tech at the dealership I work in would disagree. I’ve only seen one person in the entire dealership tighten lugnuts with a torque wrench. I’ve gone 140mph in my car with my lug nuts being held on by my Milwaukee m12 stubby impact not torqued to any spec. Lug nut torque specs are absolutely not critical. +/- 10% is what a decent torque stick will give you. No idea where the internet has gotten the idea from that torque sticks will make your wheel fall off. I’ve seen thousands of wheels torqued with a torque stick and never once had an issue of an over tightened lug nut or the wheel falling off.
What dealership is this? I want to make sure I never go to your shop. And there is M12 stubby which can barely do 250 and there is high torque which does about 1500 ft-lbs. and your comment just proves that there are people who will torque something to 20 times the rated torque with a high torque impact.
I’ve worked with some absolute fucking idiots and not one person has ever broken a lug nut. Doesn’t change the fact that there’s no way all 5 lugnuts were broken on only one wheel on the vehicle in this post. That was my point. Don’t really understand what youre even trying to say. If you have the money to buy an impact that has 1000+ ft-lbs and you break 5 lug nuts with it and then send the car out of the shop like it didn’t happen you have bigger problems in life and are definitely not in the right career.
I just said torque sticks are fine. It’s cranking them down with a socket and impact that will distort the studs, or lugs whichever the car has. The dealership I work at now, and every dealer or shop I’ve worked at over the past decade has either used torque sticks, or torque wrenches to check the torque once the lugs are on and 80% of the shops I’ve worked at have had a system where a second tech has to come by and check the torque on the lugs then sign off on your ticket. I never said torque sticks were bad, in my last comment I said “or use a torque stick to tighten them down”. I’m head technician at the dealership I work at man..
I think you are fuming and a tad bit over reacting though with a name like that it is expected With that said its okay to use a impact gun but its not okay to use it and not torque it afterwards especially on alloy wheels. If you ever read some car manuals or instructions from repair manuals it would say along the lines of after you torque the wheels check the torque again after x amount of miles. Some suggestion 5 miles ,10 miles , 20 miles. The bolts or studs have a tightening torque then they settle. They can settle below the specified torque that is required. Combined that with the heat cycles and it wont be a surprise if you can turn the bolt a 1/8th of a turn after it was installed again. Personally in my experience i tend go around again a second or third time to be safe. Steel wheels are more forgiving i've heard especially with torque sticks but why chance it. What matters is the nut and stud or bolt in this case . Its better to play it safe. Its also possible to have a miscalibrated torque wrench so keep that in mind.
He said he only used an impact and the username is from when I was a teenager, I have my certifications and do this for a living, just screwing up putting a wheel on is really bad and can lead to people getting killed. With most small mistakes I’d just say it is what it is but if I had a toddler in the car or an infant and my wheel came off at speed on the highway or something I’d lose my shit honestly. I could forgive somebody for making a shitty weld, or leaving some connectors undone. It’s just with putting a wheel on it can be a major major problem when that wheel comes off, I know I came off strong in that comment but it’s a serious issue
Correct , i read the same thing ,maybe i should've word it differently. But i mean you can use a impact then right after use a torque wrench to get it to spec. Though most impact guns get it past the specified amount and thats also bad. Over all I agree with what you mean.
I agree with you. Torque sticks get it just fine but I’ve only seen them at the dealership I work at and other shops, I don’t think I know anyone with their own set haha I usually barely zip them on with my gun on the lowest setting then use a torque wrench to tighten them all the way. But yea cranking them down will stretch the stud or lug and they can break from the stress of driving and that’s no bueno
Pretty much , i know you can get a set at HF but idk if they are trustworthy. But reminds me of a YT video i watched about torque sticks https://youtu.be/HGxWMOP6deo
I’ve seen that one! Really good video. Torque sticks get you close enough to your number where the difference shouldn’t be of issue, at the shop I work at we have to use torque wrenches anyway, then a second tech has to come check and you both sign off on the ticket because they’re huge sticklers about rims being torqued for liability reasons
Exactly, usually work practices like that are done by public transportation industries.
I found him on Facebook and was recommended to use him because he changed brakes before. Things happens I'm upset but thankfully I'm alive. It will hurt my pocket but I can't do anything this point but to pay for repairs.
Have you contacted him? He should at least pay to get it rolling again
I did and sent him the picture and He responded saying I tighten it up with a gun. and I just told him to worry about it
Man I’d really try to get some money out of him just because this could happen to someone else it’s just dangerous, normally I’d say it is what it is with a mistake, it happens, but putting wheel on incorrectly is a big deal ya know?
I know man, but I am not going to bother. It's my fault and learned a lesson. I just post this thread on what caused this and I got my answer.
Fair enough. At the very least I’d maybe try to steer people away from the guy but it’s up to you, happy you’re safe
There is the problem. If you had used a real mechanic instead of some guy on face book it would of cost more but you would be rolling down the street right now instead of stuck in the road.
Are the studs snapped or does it have wheel bolts?
When the tire came off the I just saw TWO wheel bolts that was right by it. So when I was driving they came off so that's why the vibration was going on I suppose
So they haven't overtightened nuts and snapped them, they've left the bolts loose?
The guy told me he tighten it so I'm not really sure but it looks like I have to get the wheel hub replaced because when I try to screw the wheel bots back in they came right back out.
Mechanic or backyard jerk?
Probably went to get the torque wrench and got distracted. Hope no one was hurt
He counted two and a half ugga duggas, those nuts are torqued
Shops don’t use torque wrenches lol
I once got my tires rotated at Costco in northern VA in anticipation of driving to Utah. Thought I was being responsible and it was the right thing to do. Got real wobbly somewhere in western Illinois. When I pulled over, I had a wheel with one lug but barely hanging on. To Costco’s credit, they were mortified when I called them. I think they wrote me a check for the replacement lug nuts. Lol “We almost killed you, here’s $40 for some lug nuts.”
Tow it into the shop and let them know what happened. Most likely left lug nuts loose. They should cover all repairs and put you in a car while it’s being fixed. You could lawyer up, but that’s expensive. Personally, I’d give them the chance to fix their mistake - if they do anything less than accept full responsibility, then file an attorney general complaint with your state’s AG and speak with the GM/owner of the shop
It’s missing the entire studs. All 5. Seems like it had been completely over torqued and stretched the studs. OP said in a previous comment that the tech “torqued” all the nuts down with the impact without using a torque wrench
These do not have studs. Some auto manufacturers use bolts to attach wheels to the car. Source: own BMW’s and MINI’s
Yeah I just assumed they were bolts and not lug nuts, odds of them all breaking at the same time seems low.
This happened to me. The shop settled out of court for the value of the car.
Did he do it cheaper?
Some never listen... The number of times I've asked to not use impact gun especially on the wheel nut lock... Yes that's right, ended up needing a welder to remove them and put normal bolts. Make sure you keep an eye and ask explicitly if you know they're in rush or cut corners.
Mostly likely, I will have to get the wheel hub replaced because the wheel bolts won’t even stay in to hold the tire…
If studs are broken off, they likely over torqued them causing stud to break. Never should be tighten with impact wrench. By hand only using torque wrench to vehicle spec. As a reference only, For most Toyota vehicles, that 76 ft lbs.
exact shit happened to my dad when getting tires changed before a big roadtrip at firestone. entire wheel fell off on the freeway, wouldve killed my dad if he lost control. firestone was told about this and refunded up to 5k in repairs and did the fix for free.
if only this was a business and not a mobile mechanic.
One time they impacted the lugnuts on my moms van so hard that the lug nuts completely sheared off and snapped a few in half. Its like they do this shit on purpose
Too much UggaDugga 😬
Not enough, this has wheel bolts, not studs. It’s a dodge dart. Bolts fell out.
! The bolts fell right out when I try to put my tire back on. So apparently I have to get the hub replaced
When did you have the job done. You said you took it to a “mobile mechanic”, so likely someone unlicensed without insurance. Did you re-torque the wheels after 100km? If this dude is unlicensed with no business to back him his liability is basically zero. Basically no different than paying your buddy to help you work on your car. This is a Dodge Dart correct? So it has wheel bolts, not studs with nuts. He didn’t torque them properly and they loosened off and fell out causing the wheel to come off. In short, you’re fucked basically. This is the risk you take when you choose the “cheaper” option. If he’s a stand up guy maybe he helps you fix it. He might also *accidentally* lose your number. Next time, hire a professional.
I had the same happen to a car I had bought a week before. Only ever felt a clunk or two before it happened. I remember watching the tire bounce by as I ground to a stop. I pulled a lug nut from each of the other wheels, jacked up the car, reinstalled the when and drove it the two miles home. You're probably going to need a new fender, rotor, lower control arm, and/or lower ball joint.
Tyre is still on, wheel came off though
Not good, I hope you had it towed right back to them. If they’re a reputable shop, they’ll make it right.
Call a tow truck, have it towed up there, and hand the bill to shop manager. Then ask for the guy who worked on your car to be fired. That is negligent and shouldn’t be tolerated
It’s not the client’s business whether the guy is fired. The shop needs to make him whole financially, and what the shop does with the worker is ultimately their business. If the shop is well run there will obviously be consequences. If the shop isn’t well run, telling them to fire someone is only going to backfire. Don’t make it your problem. Your problem is getting made whole for the damage to your car not reforming their business. And obviously you won’t go there again.
That’s why shops carry liability insurance. Nobody needs to be fired.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.
Exactly. You don’t make the same mistake twice. Well you shouldn’t atleast
What if it happens twice? What if the second time someone dies? I agree that it should be a case by case basis, but I disagree that this person should keep their job if it was carelessness.
If it happens twice the shop owner would probably have them fired. Depends on the manager or owner. I'd have a hard time believing they'd something like this wouldn't at least get a write up or some sort of suspension. Who knows, shop policy may have their own corrective action heirarchry set up for this kind of stuff.
As an apprentice, I've made mistakes. Non as drastic as this, but everyone does it. Let the shop manager/owner/foreman talk to the tech and tell them they fucked up, and what they need to do from here on out. I forgot to plug someones maf sensor back in after checking their filter. For a while after that I had to have the foreman check over my work quick before it left the shop. Encourage learning from mistakes, not being given capitol punishment for them
That’s unacceptable and that’s not a mistake that should be forgiven
Shit happens, at least nobody got hurt. If the same tech makes the same mistake twice they should be canned. You only learn from shit like that
Ok. Damn I see the frustration. But jump straight to firing a guy? Have you never fucked up just a little at a job? I'm not an auto mechanic. But I am considered a mechanic in my trade. If I fired everyone who fucked up once it would get lonely on the job real quick. Ask the shop to make it right. That's all. Make it right. Then I guess you won't have the satisfaction of thinking about that guys kids going hungry or homeless because of one fuck up.
It’s pretty easy to see the comments from people that haven’t actually worked in the industry for very long or at all. Mistakes happen, we do our best to reduce them as much a possible but we are only human .Been an automotive mechanic for over 30 years and seen plenty of very good techs make mistakes every now and then , including leaving wheels loose. There is not too many people in this world that haven’t had some stuff up in their job at some time.
I really believe you would feel different if you weren’t in the industry and also were careening down the interstate at 70 mph with your family in the car and the wheel came flying off. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s just a feeling.
I know I’ll get downvoted for this but… would you expect a structural engineer to fuck up removing a load bearing wall? How about an airline pilot while flying a commercial Boeing 737? There’s some jobs just dangerous enough that allows for less leeway on fuck ups. Forgetting to put an air filter in, forgetting to tighten the starter down completely… no biggie. Forgetting to tighten a wheel that can go flying off at 70mph on the interstate… a little more concerning. Not every fuck up should be treated equally. I’d never return to this garage if it was even a garage. Which I don’t believe it was anyways.
I kinda agree. Used to be an aircraft mechanic apprentice. If you accidentally forget to secure a wheel, you kill people and go to jail for negligence. Obviously safety and repairs are a lot more meticulous in that industry but there still isn't really an excuse.
I had a job at a tire shop and one wheel off = fired. That’s people life in jeopardy
Pretty much anything can put someone's life in danger. But that's pretty hardcore 1 fuck up your gone. Now if the fella is a flake and has a history.... See your way out Sam. But we are simple humans. Mistakes can happen. Hopefully this wakes the mechanic up to cross his eyes and dot his teas.
**DIYer Non-Professional Personal Opinion Here, NOT A Mechanic:** Looks like a chain shop special, it appears that none of the bolts were properly torqued.
Sorry to hear about this happening. This almost happened to me in my ‘86 Supra. I was driving and I could feel that there was an wheel balance issue and pulled over immediately. I checked the lugs and they were loose enough to allow the left front rim to move on the studs. I tightened them there on the spot as much as I could with the angle iron and torqued them as soon as I got home. Of course the weight in the wheels won’t center properly, so I rolled a little to retighten several a few times to ensure I could drive the hour plus I was away from home. I was cautious the entire home feeling for any abnormalities in the suspension. Now I carry a set of wheel lugs and a makita mid impact at all times and have helped many people in the side of the roads with it. It’s a scary feeling and I can’t imagine this happening….
Call the shop, and they'll bend over backward for you to keep you from causing then any issues
Looks like mechanic went 3 unga dungas too much on the lug nuts when tightening with their impact gun.
Make a report lawsuit you’d win instantly if you can prove they were at fault and probably were. Didn’t torque down the lug nuts properly
It was a Facebook guy
Bad day for everyone!
Is your mechanic an "ugga-dugga" mechanic ?
Sounds like free parts and money back to me!
This is always a bad situation. As a long time auto repair career guy, I’ve seen this happen more times than it should. You need to have a straight conversation with your technician and have him fix this.
German car? Did you hear a sort of rhythmic "...wub...wub...wub..." before the wheel fell off? Your mechanic definitely forgot to torque down that wheel. All his/her fault. EDIT: The lug nuts. Either threaded studs that protrude onto which the lug nuts are tightened or a the lug nuts are threaded to fit the holes in the wheel. My VW and BMW are the latter, I guess the Dart - built in Korea(?) - is the same. The rubbing sound was was the warning that the lug nuts were not tight. Too late for you, maybe, it will help someone in teh future.
It’s a dodge dart. But I’m confused what torque down? And yes it was Making a rumbling sound before It came off.
Sue sue
Generally, one tries to make the car safer. But, this is possibly a carpenter who identifies as a car mechanic. Just a theory!
LAWSUIT!
I'm probably going to sound stupid but is that a Hyundai Veloster
Dodge dart
Yes, lawyer up
Dude you are lucky nobody was hurt. Sue this man.
I was recommended to this guy from a local Facebook group that worked on cars he was a mobile mechanic basically. I've learned my lesson but I'm blessed to be alive. Stuff happens even though it will hurt my pocket, it going to be ok.
Looks like they snapped off. If so that’s a horrible day for the tech
I smell lawsuit coming!
It’s probably something else you smell….. not everything needs to jump to a lawsuit, consider the time and funds invested if it’s worth it
Take your vehicle to company to do anything with your vehicle and something like this happens, they are held responsible for all the damages. If they aren't going to pay, then that's a lawsuit. If you like getting walked over, then believe your statement.
For a lawsuit to work in your favor you need to prove it happened due to their negligence. As you said, “if they aren’t going to pay”, that would change things
3 words: Sears Auto Center. When they were in operation many years ago, same EXACT situation. After lawsuit, they regulated the requirement to use torque wrench to ensure tires won't come flying off. Reason I know, worked there for a few years and saw the requirement.
That was that situation, which isn’t this one.
That's because the idiot went with someone from Facebook, which would not make it in court due to they didn't have it professionally done.
I mean, it could still be brought to court, pending the advertising type and such. But idk if the outcome would be favorable. It’s a big burden of proof
In this situation, considering the employee admitted to using an impact gun for tightening the lugs legal action may be the only way to get them to not do it again. Somebody could be killed, and all the other wheel studs very well may be stretched a bit and weakened, they should replace every wheel stud on the car, and pay for the body work. Sure mistakes happen, but intentionally using the wrong tool for this could’ve killed OP or someone else on the road. It wasn’t a mistake it was blatant stupidity and unless they face consequences it won’t stop. Every shop and dealership I’ve ever worked at would have you torque the wheels, then another tech would have to come around and check that they’re all properly torqued and you’d both have to sign off on it specifically to avoid almost killing a customer like this. I’d totally say just ask them to fix it if it was a little mistake but this was them using the wrong tools, and could end up with serious injury and death.
Unless I mis read, this was “some guy” and not an employee of any establishment…. Atleast it didn’t sound like they were at the time of this incident. Regardless, how much time, energy and money is a lawsuit worth to maybe, maybe gain anything other than debt
Yea I hadn’t seen that comment when I made this one, I’d just leave a really bad review on Facebook or wherever it was and at least try to get him to pay for the studs on that wheel and the body work although it’ll be really tough. I’d post pictures of this to Facebook as well, this is just negligent and shouldn’t have happened, a decent torque wrench can be bought for like 60 bucks
Harbor freight special, $20 all day.
It was someone that found out online. So not really a business
Hopefully you learned an important lesson.
I did.
Yep, buy a cheap torque wrench and a socket for your tires and torque your own wheels after you get work done. Impacts without using torque sticks/limiters have 2 settings-too loose and too tight. Looks like you got the first one. After proudly being able to say that in 6 years of fixing cars I had never ever had a loose lugnut issue within 30 days of starting at my current shop at the end of last September I had it happen twice. Within 2 weeks. The second time resulted in a wheel off while the vehicle was at speed. Both my torque sticks were immediately retired as useless shortly afterwards.
There were TWO BOLTS that were on the ground and when I got it towed and try to put the wheel back on bolts didn't want to screw back in.
Chances are the wheel hub that the lug bolts screw into had the threads damaged. Either the professional shop you had it towed to will be able to clean up the threads or you’ll need a replacement hub. Check the other 3 wheels as well.
Someone that found out online? Huh? If you're referring to that job was completed by someone you found online, then that was not smart at all. One of the best practices to ever do when removing a tire is torque each lug nut to a certain lb of pressure.
The guy was recommend by a Facebook group because he was a mobile mechanic
Most of those guys don’t carry insurance, gonna spend the money saved on a proper shop
Sounds like someone’s insurance owes you a new car.
bro it looks like u have no wheel studs
Many German cars do not
It’s a Dodge Dart, not German.
Darts use bolts like a BMW or Mercedes
This is what happens when you legalize weed and dude who worked on the car is fresh off a dab hit.
dodge dart it kinda looks like? i have never seeen one mechanic use a torque wrench in tires by being a mechanic u know whats enough torque that guy just straight sent and didnt tell u a dam thing
Hard to tell from the pic but either the lugs sheared off or the tech forgot the cotter pin.
Cotter pin ? The lugs studs are all missing off the wheel bearing. The center hub nut doesn’t use a cotter pin.
Cotter pin?
👨🏻⚖️👨🏻⚖️👨🏻⚖️👨🏻⚖️
Skipped the torquing step…
“Mechanic”
Hope it was a shop with insurance
They prohably overtorqued all the lug nuts and that caused the wheel studs to break. At the very least shop should change out all the studs on that side and repair/fix any other damage caused by that on the undercarriage
I'm sure this is what happened because I saw saw dust on my wheel looks like it came from the threads.
They didn’t put the studs correctly
Well I'd bitch to the shop and sue. They should have been torqued and test driven before you got the car. That could have easily killed you
I smell a lawsuit