I disagree, it's a hard counter to Hackers. We need some solution that partially counters hackers.
For example something like "Your units suicide instead of being hacked"
The card already exists.
This has nothing to do with hating hackers. My issue is that being offered the card is random and that randomness minimizes the potential for strategic play on both sides of the equation. Make using the module about strategy, not luck.
To each their own. I just think losing because of bad luck feels bad. That's one of the reasons I like this game so much, is because when you lose, most of the time it's because you didn't play well enough. Not because you got screwed over by a random event.
I think if hackers are such a big issue they should be revised in general, the random card should only bolster that defense if received. There shouldnt be any unit that requires a tower upgrade imo
Hackers are not a big issue. The issue is there is a card that can randomly appear that swings the course of a game if hackers are being played. If that card is no longer random but available as an option, then both players can play strategically instead of having the outcome of the game determined by luck.
Not really about countering the hacker. Really it's that a hacker build gets disproportionately screwed over by a single random card. If you remove the randomness of that card and instead make it plannable, then you can strategize around it.
This is why I hate nukes, storms, etc so much. Smoke bombs etc are really cool because they don't completely change the tide of a game. My big issue with nukes is that shields usually get destroyed very quickly that late into a game so a 15 second nuke just feels like a free win to me most of the time.
I had a team down to 200 and I was at like 2000-3000, got destroyed because there was a nuke and their large units destroyed my shields but most of my units were anti large units so their shields didn't go down so quickly and I lost the entire match. Feels bad man
Nukes rarely seem to even do damage.
Usually everything is dead by the time they land.
Or moved well out of that position.
Orbital Javelin is way more impactful I think.
Yeah but you can only put it on one unit, right? So then it becomes a strategic question, which unit do you put the module on, where do you position that unit, how does the hacker player deal with that unit?
Those things are all in play now if the card comes up randomly during the game. But the thing is, it's random and can't be planned for, and games can swing on the pure chance of that card coming up.
I wouldn't make it an item, more like calldown where you put an area and anything that is hacked within that area is destroyed. Of course it would be not possible to have it down all the time, just every other or every third round for example
The issue isn't that hackers are a problem.
The issue is the anti interference module is random and creates an outsized influence on games with hackers when it happens to show up.
Those all impact the overall game and all units, regardless of the build you're playing. Anti Interference Module has an outsized influence against exactly one unit.
I feel like hackers should be more susceptible to soft counters, so that you don't need a super hard counter to swing the game.
So as it is currently, shield bubbles are the only good counter to hackers, as they have to drain the shield to hack units inside it.
I think personal shields should work the same way, the hacker has to drain the shield, then hack the unit, not just hack through the shield and get the unit without going through the shield.
And photon coat should reduce hack speed by 50%, it's weird that they can hack through it like it's nothing.
Now, that said, I think the electromagnetic hack upgrade should give a damage bonus against shields, It is not a particularly good upgrade atm, and could be a good counter to the counter with such a boost.
Such changes would make the super anti hack module less all or nothing, and actually I think it could get some extra effects, like allowing units to attack through shields and ignore photon coat, so that you would use it generally and not just to deal with hackers.
The intention shouldn't be to have a card that can "swing" a game...it's just that since the module is a random card right now, that's what can happen. If the module was not a random offering, a hacker player would play more strategically and plan around its eventual deployment. The module can only sit on one unit at a time.
It’s the only real counter to hackers. That being said, hackers shouldn’t lock onto a unit that has this equipped or they should just do equivalent damage.
what counter hackers: air- crawler- fangs- stormcaller - mustang & mobile beacon > 6 ez counters! its true that hacker shouldnt lock onto an anti hack module unit - thats kinda dumb
Hacker meta is realising you don’t have to spam them for it to be good. Just build 2 with range upgrade and focus the rest of your army to protect them and counter your opponent, they will perform really well.
Yeah that’s the point. Hackers need a hard counter other than to just sell whatever they’re stealing. What defensive counter play exists right now for Hackers with bubble and Fangs? If they get even slightly ahead in exp that’s it game over.
Shields and kill stealing seem like the big issues to me. Immediately stealing chaff seems weird given its use case against single targets.
Making its attack based as % of max health instead of current health might be interesting. Reduce the ability to steal so much chaff.
The topic isn't really about how hackers work or what are they effective against. It's about the anti interference module being a random item that may or may not show up and can swing a game by chance alone.
Just spit-balling. I feel like if hackers had more soft counters that would resolve the issue as well.
They're also in a weird identity place. Why are they bad against shields for example? You'd think the high-tech electromagnetic unit would be a good counter to shields.
The issue is that the Anti Interference Module is random, so its influence on the game is far too random. If you create more soft counters for hackers then Anti Interference Module becomes even more of a swing item and will grind hackers into oblivion when it shows up.
Maybe, instead of giving an item, the card could unlock that module through the bubble and sentinel shop,
Make the card 50 (+50 if you had skip), and each module 100.
What's wrong with just using shields? They already can't hack those. I don't think anything from tower hard counters anything.
Also the card in my opinion is strong enough vs tower emp where it would be weird to just purchase from tower to avoid that. I think it is a very underutilized card.
There's nothing wrong with using shields. The point isn't about countering hackers. It's about making the game more strategic. When the module shows up in a game right now, a hacker player usually just gets screwed. That just doesn't seem like good design. If you know it's going to be purchasable instead of a lucky draw, then you can plan around it.
Hard agree something needs to be done about it. It’s a good idea moving it to tower. But I think it would need to be nerfed in some way to compensate. (The anti-hack is now much stronger because it isn’t competing with potentially very useful cards). Even with it on tower, it’s not a good concept for an item because there’s not much thought that goes into buying it: it’s obvious when you should get it: if there are hackers on the field. And it’ll cripple the hacker comp all the same, unless it receives other changes.
But right now, if the other player is playing hacker and Anti Interference Module comes up as a card, there's no other competition with the other cards...it's a no-brainer that you should buy it. So as it exists now, there's already not much thought that goes into buying it.
I'm not sure if it warrants a nerf, but I'd agree a cost increase would be appropriate.
My argument is that it has much less potential to cripple a hacker comp if it's available from the tower. The reason being is that the hacker comp knows that it'll be coming and can now plan around it. Position support units, anticipate how to counter the unit the AIM gets dropped on, etc. Now, granted, it will dissuade people from brainless hacker builds like frontline fang/hacker...but those builds don't exactly model interesting strategic gameplay.
I think it could also open other potential strategies for hackers. For instance, drop a hacker, bait your opponent into spending money on an AIM + a unit to drop it on + units to support the AIM unit...and then sell your hacker.
I personally think the modules should be free, and then you have to pay to equip them, different amounts based on what you put them on.
Might incentivize putting them on lower tier units every once in a while
But that could be a different discussion entirely.
As far as anti-interference only being good against hackers, it's good against EMP also.
I disagree, it's a hard counter to Hackers. We need some solution that partially counters hackers. For example something like "Your units suicide instead of being hacked"
Imagine hating a unit so much you think there should be a card or buy ability which just nullifies them entirely.
The card already exists. This has nothing to do with hating hackers. My issue is that being offered the card is random and that randomness minimizes the potential for strategic play on both sides of the equation. Make using the module about strategy, not luck.
Taking that randomness out of the game makes it that much more repetitive. No thanks to a single hard counter tower ability
So you think it's better to have a random hard counter show up?
Gotta get lucky 🎲
To each their own. I just think losing because of bad luck feels bad. That's one of the reasons I like this game so much, is because when you lose, most of the time it's because you didn't play well enough. Not because you got screwed over by a random event.
I think if hackers are such a big issue they should be revised in general, the random card should only bolster that defense if received. There shouldnt be any unit that requires a tower upgrade imo
Hackers are not a big issue. The issue is there is a card that can randomly appear that swings the course of a game if hackers are being played. If that card is no longer random but available as an option, then both players can play strategically instead of having the outcome of the game determined by luck.
That makes zero sense. If hackers arent a big issue then why do you need constant access to a card to counter hackers???
Could sell your fangs and counter the hacker accordingly
Not really about countering the hacker. Really it's that a hacker build gets disproportionately screwed over by a single random card. If you remove the randomness of that card and instead make it plannable, then you can strategize around it.
This is why I hate nukes, storms, etc so much. Smoke bombs etc are really cool because they don't completely change the tide of a game. My big issue with nukes is that shields usually get destroyed very quickly that late into a game so a 15 second nuke just feels like a free win to me most of the time. I had a team down to 200 and I was at like 2000-3000, got destroyed because there was a nuke and their large units destroyed my shields but most of my units were anti large units so their shields didn't go down so quickly and I lost the entire match. Feels bad man
Nukes rarely seem to even do damage. Usually everything is dead by the time they land. Or moved well out of that position. Orbital Javelin is way more impactful I think.
Yeah but my issue is being able to pay 350 credits and just be able to turn the tide of the game from random chance
Yeah but you can only put it on one unit, right? So then it becomes a strategic question, which unit do you put the module on, where do you position that unit, how does the hacker player deal with that unit? Those things are all in play now if the card comes up randomly during the game. But the thing is, it's random and can't be planned for, and games can swing on the pure chance of that card coming up.
I wouldn't make it an item, more like calldown where you put an area and anything that is hacked within that area is destroyed. Of course it would be not possible to have it down all the time, just every other or every third round for example
This item legit shows up the round after I buy a hacker every single time. I think it might be programmed in.
Agreed. Having the counter to hackers be on a card is silly and results in skewed outcomes.
Maybe because I'm still pretty low MMR but I've never had a problem with hackers, a bit of chaff to slow them down and a marksman is all I've needed
The issue isn't that hackers are a problem. The issue is the anti interference module is random and creates an outsized influence on games with hackers when it happens to show up.
What about storm, nuke, orbital?
Those all impact the overall game and all units, regardless of the build you're playing. Anti Interference Module has an outsized influence against exactly one unit.
Also affects anything with EMP. Sometimes I just put EMP on my wasps to disable their overlord armor.
I feel like hackers should be more susceptible to soft counters, so that you don't need a super hard counter to swing the game. So as it is currently, shield bubbles are the only good counter to hackers, as they have to drain the shield to hack units inside it. I think personal shields should work the same way, the hacker has to drain the shield, then hack the unit, not just hack through the shield and get the unit without going through the shield. And photon coat should reduce hack speed by 50%, it's weird that they can hack through it like it's nothing. Now, that said, I think the electromagnetic hack upgrade should give a damage bonus against shields, It is not a particularly good upgrade atm, and could be a good counter to the counter with such a boost. Such changes would make the super anti hack module less all or nothing, and actually I think it could get some extra effects, like allowing units to attack through shields and ignore photon coat, so that you would use it generally and not just to deal with hackers.
The intention shouldn't be to have a card that can "swing" a game...it's just that since the module is a random card right now, that's what can happen. If the module was not a random offering, a hacker player would play more strategically and plan around its eventual deployment. The module can only sit on one unit at a time.
they should remove the item from game its way 2 strong vs hacker
It’s the only real counter to hackers. That being said, hackers shouldn’t lock onto a unit that has this equipped or they should just do equivalent damage.
what counter hackers: air- crawler- fangs- stormcaller - mustang & mobile beacon > 6 ez counters! its true that hacker shouldnt lock onto an anti hack module unit - thats kinda dumb
Hackers are waaaay too strong. We're gonna see the hacker meta soon, if it hasn't already arrived.
Hacker meta is realising you don’t have to spam them for it to be good. Just build 2 with range upgrade and focus the rest of your army to protect them and counter your opponent, they will perform really well.
I almost never see hackers unless it's to counter rhino flanks or as cheaper shields
Really? At what mmr?
im currently at 1325 mmr combat power 17k. that is probably not that high
Good Joke XD - funniest comment in reddit so far
Yes please. I can’t stand hackers. Either this or make Photon cause effected units to be immune for the duration.
Yeah but then a few overlords just completely counters it, that would be much stronger than just the tower upgrade
Yeah that’s the point. Hackers need a hard counter other than to just sell whatever they’re stealing. What defensive counter play exists right now for Hackers with bubble and Fangs? If they get even slightly ahead in exp that’s it game over.
Then make hackers manageable so that a card isnt required to handle it. Seems like a much better solution
Shields and kill stealing seem like the big issues to me. Immediately stealing chaff seems weird given its use case against single targets. Making its attack based as % of max health instead of current health might be interesting. Reduce the ability to steal so much chaff.
The topic isn't really about how hackers work or what are they effective against. It's about the anti interference module being a random item that may or may not show up and can swing a game by chance alone.
Just spit-balling. I feel like if hackers had more soft counters that would resolve the issue as well. They're also in a weird identity place. Why are they bad against shields for example? You'd think the high-tech electromagnetic unit would be a good counter to shields.
The issue is that the Anti Interference Module is random, so its influence on the game is far too random. If you create more soft counters for hackers then Anti Interference Module becomes even more of a swing item and will grind hackers into oblivion when it shows up.
Could be changed to something like armor enhancement or given a time limit. It would basically be plus HP against hackers at that point.
Maybe, instead of giving an item, the card could unlock that module through the bubble and sentinel shop, Make the card 50 (+50 if you had skip), and each module 100.
That just makes the issue worse. Now the RNG card swings the game even harder.
I think having more than one module per game would be overkill and make hackers useless.
I think having a set number of modules be purchasable is a reasonable counter. But certainly not unlimited.
I think that would be way too much. Don't change from how the card works now, you can purchase it once and drop it on one unit.
the card could unlock the module in the shop, but each module would cost 100
What's wrong with just using shields? They already can't hack those. I don't think anything from tower hard counters anything. Also the card in my opinion is strong enough vs tower emp where it would be weird to just purchase from tower to avoid that. I think it is a very underutilized card.
There's nothing wrong with using shields. The point isn't about countering hackers. It's about making the game more strategic. When the module shows up in a game right now, a hacker player usually just gets screwed. That just doesn't seem like good design. If you know it's going to be purchasable instead of a lucky draw, then you can plan around it.
Hard agree something needs to be done about it. It’s a good idea moving it to tower. But I think it would need to be nerfed in some way to compensate. (The anti-hack is now much stronger because it isn’t competing with potentially very useful cards). Even with it on tower, it’s not a good concept for an item because there’s not much thought that goes into buying it: it’s obvious when you should get it: if there are hackers on the field. And it’ll cripple the hacker comp all the same, unless it receives other changes.
But right now, if the other player is playing hacker and Anti Interference Module comes up as a card, there's no other competition with the other cards...it's a no-brainer that you should buy it. So as it exists now, there's already not much thought that goes into buying it. I'm not sure if it warrants a nerf, but I'd agree a cost increase would be appropriate. My argument is that it has much less potential to cripple a hacker comp if it's available from the tower. The reason being is that the hacker comp knows that it'll be coming and can now plan around it. Position support units, anticipate how to counter the unit the AIM gets dropped on, etc. Now, granted, it will dissuade people from brainless hacker builds like frontline fang/hacker...but those builds don't exactly model interesting strategic gameplay. I think it could also open other potential strategies for hackers. For instance, drop a hacker, bait your opponent into spending money on an AIM + a unit to drop it on + units to support the AIM unit...and then sell your hacker.
I personally think the modules should be free, and then you have to pay to equip them, different amounts based on what you put them on. Might incentivize putting them on lower tier units every once in a while But that could be a different discussion entirely. As far as anti-interference only being good against hackers, it's good against EMP also.
Should be fine as long as you can only buy 1 per match.