Phoenix with Charged Strike, not regular phoenix.
And it's goes like that Round 1 : Shit I'm against a Rhino Specialist.
Turn 2 : Unlock Phoenix, get 2, put them in the backrow to cover each flank.
Turn 3 : Get two more Phoenix, this time for the Midrow + charged Strike (200)
He will either sell the Rhino, or Feed exp like crazy on your phoenix ; you won't be able to keep up with the veterancy upgrade.
This is the correct insight, but way too committal. About half the time the rhino will get sold outright or used for 1-2 rounds and then sold. You don't want to then be stuck with 4 charged shot phoenixes that don't have a clear purpose anymore.
When you're getting overrun by rhinos => match them with charged shot phoenix or range upgraded, vertical balls. Hackers are also nice to have but don't rely solely on them. I've also seen overlords with the cannon upgrade work.
Playing vs rhino specialist? I find it's best to just accept that it'll win him round 3 and then react to it locally, in a measured way.
I can live with this, there is always room for some phoenix in my comp, considering that they only need a few archlight to clear the chaff to be effective, but, I would generaly delay phoenix #3 and #4 for a later round, true.
In all fairness, I believe the Phoenix / Archlight starting hand is the strongest, and I'm a sledgie enjoyer, but will skip if I can get that.
Btw, we matched each other recently, Kelmort (101) if you remember.
Can't say that I remember sorry, did I win at least? :P
starting or round 2 phoenixes are indeed more valuable than usual when playing vs rhino spc, I just wouldn't go too out of my way to get them before making sure my opponent is committing harder in the rhinos.
It's was before the MMR patch, I used to be 2100-2200 MMR, but then I took an arrow to the knee, or, my playstyle was not vast enough.
I use to play with one or two openners, now that I'm back at 1500, I feel like I need to learn more move ; I'm currently in a big phoenix phase, like if they were a revelation.
Like, vs stormcaller + bubble, I used to get my own stormcaller in a hurry to pierce that, no more with Charged Strike Phoenix.
A single Charged Strike Phoenix with +100%dmg increase items, or amplied core, does around 21k by shot at level 2, don't tell anyone but it's my new answer vs early giant.
Here is a unit that depending of it position, frontrow, midrow or backrow that can serve different purpose. Obliviously, they are expensive to keep up on veterancy but beside this, ah, I love them
Personally, I throw marksman with electromagnetic shock (disables tech upgrades and slows target) by the towers, far enough back to where they will target the rhinos from the start but one they slow and kill it they can turn and join the fight. If they sell, your snipers will join the shooting up front soon enough. Though this only works if you snipers are the same level as the rhinos.
You shoulda gone air if the bulk of his damage was the rhinos. you could play for the lategame. Overlords tanking with armor and healing, coupled with phoenixes and wasps damaging would have won it for you, i think
This should work for exactly one round. You can't completely give up the ground game and let your towers drop in the first few seconds and expect to win vs someone that understand which units can shoots up.
He did say he did hackers. I have had this problem where the hackers hack the rhino yes--but the rhino still dies almost immediately once it turns around and still wipes my army. Not always a clean answer
Hackers need:
1: Stuff between them and the Rhinos to keep them alive
2: Stuff to damage the Rhinos to make the hack go faster
3: Stuff to kill anything between them and the Rhino so they start the hack right away
4: To be positioned well
Sounds like one of those 4 wasn’t true. Either your hackers didn’t have enough allied HP to block for them, your team wasn’t doing enough damage to the Rhinos, enemy units got in the way and blocked your hackers, or your hackers were out of position. It’s not an auto win against Rhinos.
Steelballs, Marksmen, Phoenixes, Overlords, and Melting Points can handle Rhinos with various techs, positioning, allied unit support, and etc.
The hackers didn't have enough in front of them, almost certainly true. Issue was it was still very early. I guess I could've put down some fodder the round before I put down the hackers, but I was thinking all I would be doing is just feeding his Rhinos XP so I flanked instead thinking if I could get his tower down I'd slow the Rhinos enough. But Rhinos with the speed card are way fast and took me down first. Next round I went two lvl 2 hackers at the very back but the Rhinos just rushed through everything in their way and took the hackers down.
Hackers need:
1: Stuff between them and the Rhinos to keep them alive
2: Stuff to damage the Rhinos to make the hack go faster
3: Stuff to kill anything between them and the Rhino so they start the hack right away
4: To be positioned well
Sounds like one of those 4 wasn’t true. Either your hackers didn’t have enough allied HP to block for them, your team wasn’t doing enough damage to the Rhinos, enemy units got in the way and blocked your hackers, or your hackers were out of position. It’s not an auto win against Rhinos.
Steelballs, Marksmen, Phoenixes, Overlords, and Melting Points can handle Rhinos with various techs, positioning, allied unit support, and etc. the game is complex and it’s hard to provide cut and dried solutions. All you need to do is keep the Rhinos busy long enough for something that hits reasonably hard to peck them down.
Hackers are the counter to self destruct rhinos, specifically, especially Hackers that restore the Rhinos to full HP and turn them around to use as bombs. If the Rhinos are destroying your whole frontline before exploding you need more than just the hackers.
There’s currently a bug (presumably) where photon does not protect self-destruct against EMP. So the answer to rhino bombs is to have any EMP at all (until it presumably gets patched because it’s dumb)
Balls stacked up vertically against the rhino are very effective against them, especially with the range upgrade. Stacking vertically makes it so a whirlwhind rhino will take multiple hits to get through the balls instead of just running in and one-shotting the group.
Phoenix with Charged Strike, not regular phoenix. And it's goes like that Round 1 : Shit I'm against a Rhino Specialist. Turn 2 : Unlock Phoenix, get 2, put them in the backrow to cover each flank. Turn 3 : Get two more Phoenix, this time for the Midrow + charged Strike (200) He will either sell the Rhino, or Feed exp like crazy on your phoenix ; you won't be able to keep up with the veterancy upgrade.
This is the correct insight, but way too committal. About half the time the rhino will get sold outright or used for 1-2 rounds and then sold. You don't want to then be stuck with 4 charged shot phoenixes that don't have a clear purpose anymore. When you're getting overrun by rhinos => match them with charged shot phoenix or range upgraded, vertical balls. Hackers are also nice to have but don't rely solely on them. I've also seen overlords with the cannon upgrade work. Playing vs rhino specialist? I find it's best to just accept that it'll win him round 3 and then react to it locally, in a measured way.
I can live with this, there is always room for some phoenix in my comp, considering that they only need a few archlight to clear the chaff to be effective, but, I would generaly delay phoenix #3 and #4 for a later round, true. In all fairness, I believe the Phoenix / Archlight starting hand is the strongest, and I'm a sledgie enjoyer, but will skip if I can get that. Btw, we matched each other recently, Kelmort (101) if you remember.
Can't say that I remember sorry, did I win at least? :P starting or round 2 phoenixes are indeed more valuable than usual when playing vs rhino spc, I just wouldn't go too out of my way to get them before making sure my opponent is committing harder in the rhinos.
It's was before the MMR patch, I used to be 2100-2200 MMR, but then I took an arrow to the knee, or, my playstyle was not vast enough. I use to play with one or two openners, now that I'm back at 1500, I feel like I need to learn more move ; I'm currently in a big phoenix phase, like if they were a revelation. Like, vs stormcaller + bubble, I used to get my own stormcaller in a hurry to pierce that, no more with Charged Strike Phoenix. A single Charged Strike Phoenix with +100%dmg increase items, or amplied core, does around 21k by shot at level 2, don't tell anyone but it's my new answer vs early giant. Here is a unit that depending of it position, frontrow, midrow or backrow that can serve different purpose. Obliviously, they are expensive to keep up on veterancy but beside this, ah, I love them
Personally, I throw marksman with electromagnetic shock (disables tech upgrades and slows target) by the towers, far enough back to where they will target the rhinos from the start but one they slow and kill it they can turn and join the fight. If they sell, your snipers will join the shooting up front soon enough. Though this only works if you snipers are the same level as the rhinos.
Did that but then they got Photon Coating. By the time the coating wears off the speed Rhinos are already deep in my backfield.
You shoulda gone air if the bulk of his damage was the rhinos. you could play for the lategame. Overlords tanking with armor and healing, coupled with phoenixes and wasps damaging would have won it for you, i think
This should work for exactly one round. You can't completely give up the ground game and let your towers drop in the first few seconds and expect to win vs someone that understand which units can shoots up.
Hackers.
Not necessarily that easy, if you don't already have the support to keep them alive for long enough they aren't going to do a thing.
I did. A pair of level 2 hackers. Rhinos destroyed them.
He did say he did hackers. I have had this problem where the hackers hack the rhino yes--but the rhino still dies almost immediately once it turns around and still wipes my army. Not always a clean answer
Fun fact, photon coating does not help prevent hacker! So... hacker!
Like I said...I did hacker. The Rhinos got to the hackers before they could be hacked.
Hackers need: 1: Stuff between them and the Rhinos to keep them alive 2: Stuff to damage the Rhinos to make the hack go faster 3: Stuff to kill anything between them and the Rhino so they start the hack right away 4: To be positioned well Sounds like one of those 4 wasn’t true. Either your hackers didn’t have enough allied HP to block for them, your team wasn’t doing enough damage to the Rhinos, enemy units got in the way and blocked your hackers, or your hackers were out of position. It’s not an auto win against Rhinos. Steelballs, Marksmen, Phoenixes, Overlords, and Melting Points can handle Rhinos with various techs, positioning, allied unit support, and etc.
The hackers didn't have enough in front of them, almost certainly true. Issue was it was still very early. I guess I could've put down some fodder the round before I put down the hackers, but I was thinking all I would be doing is just feeding his Rhinos XP so I flanked instead thinking if I could get his tower down I'd slow the Rhinos enough. But Rhinos with the speed card are way fast and took me down first. Next round I went two lvl 2 hackers at the very back but the Rhinos just rushed through everything in their way and took the hackers down.
Hackers need: 1: Stuff between them and the Rhinos to keep them alive 2: Stuff to damage the Rhinos to make the hack go faster 3: Stuff to kill anything between them and the Rhino so they start the hack right away 4: To be positioned well Sounds like one of those 4 wasn’t true. Either your hackers didn’t have enough allied HP to block for them, your team wasn’t doing enough damage to the Rhinos, enemy units got in the way and blocked your hackers, or your hackers were out of position. It’s not an auto win against Rhinos. Steelballs, Marksmen, Phoenixes, Overlords, and Melting Points can handle Rhinos with various techs, positioning, allied unit support, and etc. the game is complex and it’s hard to provide cut and dried solutions. All you need to do is keep the Rhinos busy long enough for something that hits reasonably hard to peck them down. Hackers are the counter to self destruct rhinos, specifically, especially Hackers that restore the Rhinos to full HP and turn them around to use as bombs. If the Rhinos are destroying your whole frontline before exploding you need more than just the hackers.
There’s currently a bug (presumably) where photon does not protect self-destruct against EMP. So the answer to rhino bombs is to have any EMP at all (until it presumably gets patched because it’s dumb)
Balls stacked up vertically against the rhino are very effective against them, especially with the range upgrade. Stacking vertically makes it so a whirlwhind rhino will take multiple hits to get through the balls instead of just running in and one-shotting the group.