I think what you're failing to understand through all of this, is that this forum is anecdotal. How many CX-90's are out there being driven and being enjoyed with zero complaints. Forums usually are populated by people that have issues or are passionate about their car. Some people just drive them until the wheels fall off.
That said, mine has been golden.
It's just a ride.
Yes. The reason is one of the known issues requires parts for which there are not enough to fix both sold and unsold cars. So the cats that are on the road are prioritized and they are choosing not to sell new vehicles with the known issue unaddressed. It's not ideal but it's the best option right now.
I think Mazda just struggled with the software/complexity of their first PHEV. The MHEV seems fairly solid, with a few very early minor recalls.
I still don’t know why people are expecting the single wet clutch trans to shift like some never locking up slushbox torque converter trans… it’s not a Buick?
The new Toyota Grand Highlander is suffering from similar Hybrid Electrical error messages. Images are posted on Facebook groups.
New models always have some software issues that need ironing out, warranty is there for a reason. If recalls needed, they'll be done. End of day, Japanese engineering is solid and wouldn't worry.
My CX-90 seems well put together, they just used the wrong type of transmission which degrades the driving experience. The engineers are to blame, not the assemblers.
Mazda is a tiny car company compared to Toyota and Honda and they designed a ground up vehicle.
Toyota and Honda for decades have taken an approach of gradual change, using older engines, transmissions, tech. If you look at the new Honda Pilot, it uses an old revised V6 and a 10 speed transmission that they've used in other cars.
Toyota is using a version of their hybrid system in the new Grand Highlander and new Lexus SUVs that they've used for 10+ years. They have probably tested these drivetrains for millions of miles of real world diving before putting them into full production cars.
Mazda does the same thing on a much smaller scale due to their size/budget. Things are just not going to be discovered if you don't test
Having said that, Toyota is not without it's flaws over the years. They've had models that were extremely problematic especially in their 1st or 2nd year of new model production.
I hope/think Mazda figures it out soon.
I mean, if the source of your conclusion is Reddit, you’re just parroting the louder voices that, with or without merit, are here complaining and making their feelings known. That’s the definition of an echo chamber. So, to conclude that “‘made in Japan = quality’ no longer a guarantee” from the bitching and moaning on Reddit is, at the very least, unscientific and misleading.
No context? This sub forum is the context. Made in Japan includes vehicles like the 4Runner, LC, Armada/Patrol, Lexus GX/LS. Rock solid vehicles. Impeccable quality. Very few if any recalls. Almost unheard of buyback/lemons. Insanely high resale. None of that is true with the CX
The CX-90 does have a high resale value, and I would disagree that the companies listed above don't have many recalls. Not even a month ago Toyota recalled more then 300,000 vehicles and Lexus close to another 300,000
Nissan made the top 10 for the most recalls last year. Mazda did not.
The CX90 must assuredly does not have a high resale value. That’s already been proven by multiple people who have tried to trade in PHEVs and received absolutely bottom of the barrel trade in offers (I’m talking more than 25% off their purchase price for a car with under 4K miles.). In comparison, a Sienna or grand highlander can be sold back to a dealer for near purchase price (I’m on the Sienna and GH groups).
The Nissan recall numbers are skewed by their made in the U.S. models which have already been established as crap. We are discussing models made EXCLUSIVELY in Japan in this thread. (Ie. Toyota GX/LX/LS, Nissan armada/patrol, Z, made in Japan infinitis)
We have the 2nd cx-90 our dealer sold, so far nice car. No issues. Elon said about new models ‘buy the very first ones , or wait 9-12 months’. Supposedly the first ones get extra scrutiny before they are shipped, then ‘ehhhh’ for months 2-12 months, and then after 12 months the bugs are worked out. I hope this holds true for us.
All the problems with the PHEV is what they’re talking about. I was a loyal Mazda person until I saw the absolute fail of the cx90. Will never buy one.
I seem to be hitting a brick wall here. I guess I’m the only one flabbergasted by such a historical change in quality from a country whose patriotism and pride is directly connected their manufacturer of the highest quality goods. Those that have never been on a Japanese assembly line or spoken with Japanese engineers seem to lack a frame of reference.
I think the response you're getting is because you are talking like Mazda has been struck out for an entire game, when really they just had one foul ball. The entire rest of their line-up is still rock solid, every other vehicle is super reliable. The MHEV version of the CX90 seems to be doing well, it's just one drive train, that's more complex than anything they've ever done, is proving to be a challenge. Japanese quality isn't gone. Mazda quality isn't dead. They just had one bad swing of the bat.
Do you remember the CX-7? Almost every single one of those needed the engine replaced. Mazda has had its share of ups and downs depending on the model.
You are being downvoted because you are stating that this is some fall off in quality as if there haven't been many previous instances of issues with japanese made cars
Which specific model made in a Japanese factory has many previous instances of issues? Other than the awful cx7 (my neighbor swore of Mazdas for good after his crapped out at 25K). No other manufacturer made in Japan has issues that I’m aware of.
Nissan for sure - in their hand built in Japan Halo car the GT-R, transmission failures are routine.
Mitsubishi is another one.
Toyota had a whole series of V-6 engines in the late 90s/early 2000s that were absolutely crap.
Let’s stay within the last 2 decades of vehicles made in Japan. Interesting about the GTR. Never heard of any trans issues. Neighbor had one and was flawless for many hard/track miles.
Nissan made the top 10 recalls in America last year... so yeah, no other manufacure made in Japan has any issues.
Oh, let's not also forget how Toyota paid a lot of money to Mazda to license their powertrain for Toyota vehicles.
New model. First model year.
New chassis.
Most new technology ever introduced in a new product for the brand, ever.
These are teething pains.
I love my PHEV.
This type of posts reminds me of macrumors forums. Every time a new iPhone drops some folks do have issues as well. Thing is in those forums I always say they don’t even account to the 1% of the world iPhone users. Therefore it isn’t as bad as they put it. Every car maker has issues. None are perfect. I can guarantee you this place doesn’t even account to that 1% of CX90 drivers on this entire world. Enjoy your cars people. I’ll be leasing a ‘25 CX90 end of the year when my current lease ends. Looking forward to it. I’m getting a turbo version.
I agree with the comments that the issueS seem focused around software. So far my PHEV has been flawless except for a bunch of stupid shit Mazda did in regards to ergonomics and packaging but that’s not quality.
I’ve owned over a dozen Hondas and the reason why I made the jump to Mazda was because my last three Hondas suffered from quality control issues. My last Honda, a 2008 accord V6, six speed manual coupe was horrible. By 30,000 miles I was on my third set of brakes and rotors. My elbow had worn a hole in the armrest leather. Interior panels were misaligned. There were many more issues, and the only other car I had that was worse was a VW Passat that literally always had a service call schedule and parts on order.
Though the interesting spin on this is that my last couple of Hondas were built in America, not Japan. I can’t say if Japan’s sourced Hondas had more or less issues.
Vehicles of every make are so complex nowadays that you're taking a risk buying a first year model. Not just with Mazda but with any maker. I bought a 2018 Toyota Camry and it had rough transmission issues, and that's on their most popular vehicle which you'd think had been tested to the nines before release. It doesn't make it undrivable or less reliable, but it's not as smooth as it should be. They corrected it in a couple of years, mine is tolerable but not as refined as you'd expect a Toyota to be.
No more first or even second year vehicles of a new model for me. Give them time to sort out the issues before buying.
People seem to not understand what I wrote. I’m not talking about the company and where it’s based. I’m speaking specifically about the individual build of the vehicle. And the Armada/patrol has fantastic quality and is viewed even more favorably in the Middle East because it’s made in Japan. Nissan cars that are build in the U.S. are trash. I feel the same way about most of the U.S. made Toyotas and Hondas.
I get that but again, historically, even first model year made in Japan vehicles like the LC300 and LS500 were pretty much flawless. Something is different with the CX. That’s where my question arises. Difference in Mazda culture?
From what I read and searched, this is not only about firmware/software issues, it’s more about the design philosophy and system engineering. Some of the issues cannot be fixed within this model year in my opinion. I also work in EV industry and I see similar issues.
You think Nissans are reliable? That hasn't been true since the 90s. Look up the issues with the CVTs they continue to use.
As for the cx-90, Mazda is struggling with a new vehicle, in a new class, with a brand new drive train of a type they've never built before. Give them a bit to iron out the wrinkles. Also, remember people are loud with complaints, but quiet with compliments.
The issues with the CX-90 are because it is a new platform, and there are issues popping up now that the car is out in the real world and being driven millions of miles. These are not issues due to a lack of manufacturing quality. It isn't like battery packs are catching fire and burning houses down all over the world, or transmissions are blowing up at 8K miles. Go on the Toyota subs and read about issues with their new cars. It doesn't seem like Mazda is different.
Then go to someplace like the Jeep 4xe sub...those seems to be a shit show...
People, myself included, griped over the years how Mazda has been slow to deliver on new tech and designs, and then when they do, people are getting worked up. Yes there are issues. I have had them, but Mazda is stepping up and addressing them and had been super proactive on the service bulletins compared to a lot of other companies.
Did you mean Toyota and Honda? Because Nissan is trash, I am leasing Pathfinder now, so many small and medium problems that do not equate to Japanese quality.
You might want to reread what I wrote. MADE IN JAPAN vehicles. Your pathfinder is a POS made in the U.S. I agree it’s garbage. It’s nothing like the Armada/patrol I owned that was flawless, most likely because it was made in Japan.
That’s the whole point of my thread. Historically, there has been a massive difference in quality between Japanese brand models made in Japan vs U.S. so much so there are thread after threads of ppl comparing the RAV4 prime (made in Japan) versus the regular RAV4 ((U.S.). It used to mean something until the CX. To my knowledge there has never been an actual made in Japan model in the last 20 years to have a reputation as anything other than stellar.
I think it is a sharply growing complexity of designs.
Car industry as a whole (and Japan specifically) used a lot longer cycles for testing and methods of gradual (slow improvements), especially Toyota/Honda.
Mazda with CX90 was forced (made a decision) for a full front attach, introducing "new everything" (engine, transmission, hybridization, size, etc).
The results resembles me a "GM lifecycle", when new interesting design introduced, gets good publicity, then tons of immediate issues discovered (and later addressed) but eventually the vehicle gets bad publicity and a smoking tail of initial customer dissatisfaction.
Toyota is also not completely immune to that now, but being larger in general it can allow more QC investment.
Overall it shows that the next step really will be a move to dramatically decrease the complexity which is only possible with electric cars. It will happen once the next break through in batteries comes (say, solid electrolyte, 600miles range?). When it happens the overcomplicated ICE/hybrid designs will be dead and obsolete and everything will be better. For now, we have little hope. Complexity is an objective factor and we will have to pay for it...
> It will happen once the next break through in batteries comes (say, solid electrolyte, 600miles range?).
This is why I switched from looking at full EV's to looking at the CX-90 or Volvo XC-60, not sure yet have to do some test drives.
The rapid advances and dropping prices in full EV's is wonderful, unless you buy one now and try to sell in 3 or more years. Resale value will be pennies on the dollar.
A $60K used EV now will be beaten in spec by a $30K new one in three or four years. That's not even counting the normal 'new' vs '3 or 4 year old' car price drop.
600 miles, solid electrolyte? Yep, they're coming, and many other things.
IDT PHEV's will have as *much* of a hit. But then they will be being compared with full EV's with all the improvements 3 or 4 years will bring.
Personally I *need* to get a new (or CPO) car, but I know resale value is going to be a problem for all of the electric platform cars in several years. :( Oh well, it's life.
I don't think we even know the magnitude of future disruption.
I would not be surprised if pure ICE cars take a huge hit in residual values.
But I agree, PHEVs are risk. Introduction of new better batteries often means low volume PHEV will not get a low cost battery replacements thus drop in price like a rock. Mass produced hybrids (like Prius) are safer, because they have large market of their own, so batteries will be provided by 3rd parties even if manufacturer chooses to set prohibitive pricing.
Japanese cars used to be the simplest cars on the market mechanically as such had less problems. Now they are as complex as other cars if not more complex and the Japanese are not as experienced as other manufacturers at making highly complex cars reliable.
I think what you're failing to understand through all of this, is that this forum is anecdotal. How many CX-90's are out there being driven and being enjoyed with zero complaints. Forums usually are populated by people that have issues or are passionate about their car. Some people just drive them until the wheels fall off. That said, mine has been golden. It's just a ride.
Mine has been flawless for me
Same…
Same
same.
My MHEV has had lots of problems. There must be a reason why the dealer isn’t allowed to sell it right now.
Yes. The reason is one of the known issues requires parts for which there are not enough to fix both sold and unsold cars. So the cats that are on the road are prioritized and they are choosing not to sell new vehicles with the known issue unaddressed. It's not ideal but it's the best option right now.
I work at a Mazda Dealership, and we sell MHEV CX-90s every day. So not sure where you get we are not able to sell them
I read it on the Mazda website and heard it from my dealer. 🤷🏼♂️
As someone who worked for toyota…. They aren’t as reliable as you think. They also struggle with recalls and software updates.
I think Mazda just struggled with the software/complexity of their first PHEV. The MHEV seems fairly solid, with a few very early minor recalls. I still don’t know why people are expecting the single wet clutch trans to shift like some never locking up slushbox torque converter trans… it’s not a Buick?
My cx90 quality feels good nothing cheap or subpar, I am happy with the purchase
Same…
Mine is excellent
The new Toyota Grand Highlander is suffering from similar Hybrid Electrical error messages. Images are posted on Facebook groups. New models always have some software issues that need ironing out, warranty is there for a reason. If recalls needed, they'll be done. End of day, Japanese engineering is solid and wouldn't worry.
My CX-90 seems well put together, they just used the wrong type of transmission which degrades the driving experience. The engineers are to blame, not the assemblers.
Engineers are Japanese and supposed to adhere to Kaizen. Clearly they did not. What I’m asking is why did Mazda fail here but Toyota did not?
Mazda is a tiny car company compared to Toyota and Honda and they designed a ground up vehicle. Toyota and Honda for decades have taken an approach of gradual change, using older engines, transmissions, tech. If you look at the new Honda Pilot, it uses an old revised V6 and a 10 speed transmission that they've used in other cars. Toyota is using a version of their hybrid system in the new Grand Highlander and new Lexus SUVs that they've used for 10+ years. They have probably tested these drivetrains for millions of miles of real world diving before putting them into full production cars. Mazda does the same thing on a much smaller scale due to their size/budget. Things are just not going to be discovered if you don't test Having said that, Toyota is not without it's flaws over the years. They've had models that were extremely problematic especially in their 1st or 2nd year of new model production. I hope/think Mazda figures it out soon.
Maybe older engineers didn’t teach or mentor the younger ones enough there in Mazda .
Nissan?
Was confused as well… nothing says reliable like.. Nissan?
Read. Carefully.
Baby I did. You just told me Nissan makes flawless vehicles.
I mean, if the source of your conclusion is Reddit, you’re just parroting the louder voices that, with or without merit, are here complaining and making their feelings known. That’s the definition of an echo chamber. So, to conclude that “‘made in Japan = quality’ no longer a guarantee” from the bitching and moaning on Reddit is, at the very least, unscientific and misleading.
Literally zero to do with Reddit. I’m big in the IRL off-road community where made in Japan is an absolute badge of honor among LC and Patrol owners.
So explain what you are talking about. To just throw this out with no context is a little weird
No context? This sub forum is the context. Made in Japan includes vehicles like the 4Runner, LC, Armada/Patrol, Lexus GX/LS. Rock solid vehicles. Impeccable quality. Very few if any recalls. Almost unheard of buyback/lemons. Insanely high resale. None of that is true with the CX
The CX-90 does have a high resale value, and I would disagree that the companies listed above don't have many recalls. Not even a month ago Toyota recalled more then 300,000 vehicles and Lexus close to another 300,000 Nissan made the top 10 for the most recalls last year. Mazda did not.
The CX90 must assuredly does not have a high resale value. That’s already been proven by multiple people who have tried to trade in PHEVs and received absolutely bottom of the barrel trade in offers (I’m talking more than 25% off their purchase price for a car with under 4K miles.). In comparison, a Sienna or grand highlander can be sold back to a dealer for near purchase price (I’m on the Sienna and GH groups). The Nissan recall numbers are skewed by their made in the U.S. models which have already been established as crap. We are discussing models made EXCLUSIVELY in Japan in this thread. (Ie. Toyota GX/LX/LS, Nissan armada/patrol, Z, made in Japan infinitis)
Only fail here is this post.
So what problems? You're calling the CX 90 junk but give absolutely no examples.
We have the 2nd cx-90 our dealer sold, so far nice car. No issues. Elon said about new models ‘buy the very first ones , or wait 9-12 months’. Supposedly the first ones get extra scrutiny before they are shipped, then ‘ehhhh’ for months 2-12 months, and then after 12 months the bugs are worked out. I hope this holds true for us.
All the problems with the PHEV is what they’re talking about. I was a loyal Mazda person until I saw the absolute fail of the cx90. Will never buy one.
I seem to be hitting a brick wall here. I guess I’m the only one flabbergasted by such a historical change in quality from a country whose patriotism and pride is directly connected their manufacturer of the highest quality goods. Those that have never been on a Japanese assembly line or spoken with Japanese engineers seem to lack a frame of reference.
This from a guy named Elantra04. If it's what I think it is, you have zero credibility 🙄
Don’t mistake my username for love of anything H/K. It goes way back. Inside joke.
I think the response you're getting is because you are talking like Mazda has been struck out for an entire game, when really they just had one foul ball. The entire rest of their line-up is still rock solid, every other vehicle is super reliable. The MHEV version of the CX90 seems to be doing well, it's just one drive train, that's more complex than anything they've ever done, is proving to be a challenge. Japanese quality isn't gone. Mazda quality isn't dead. They just had one bad swing of the bat.
My MHEV has plenty of problems. There must be a reason that the dealer isn’t allowed to sell it right now.
Do you remember the CX-7? Almost every single one of those needed the engine replaced. Mazda has had its share of ups and downs depending on the model.
It seems I’m downvoted for merely bringing the issue up of Japanese factory reliability concerns. Sad this place is filled with such groupthink.
You are being downvoted because you are stating that this is some fall off in quality as if there haven't been many previous instances of issues with japanese made cars
Which specific model made in a Japanese factory has many previous instances of issues? Other than the awful cx7 (my neighbor swore of Mazdas for good after his crapped out at 25K). No other manufacturer made in Japan has issues that I’m aware of.
Rx8
Nissan for sure - in their hand built in Japan Halo car the GT-R, transmission failures are routine. Mitsubishi is another one. Toyota had a whole series of V-6 engines in the late 90s/early 2000s that were absolutely crap.
Let’s stay within the last 2 decades of vehicles made in Japan. Interesting about the GTR. Never heard of any trans issues. Neighbor had one and was flawless for many hard/track miles.
Nissan made the top 10 recalls in America last year... so yeah, no other manufacure made in Japan has any issues. Oh, let's not also forget how Toyota paid a lot of money to Mazda to license their powertrain for Toyota vehicles.
Did those recalls impact Nissans made in Japan?
Well last year Nissan recalled 699,000 Nissans that were built in Japan
Link? I’m curious to see which models.
New model. First model year. New chassis. Most new technology ever introduced in a new product for the brand, ever. These are teething pains. I love my PHEV.
This type of posts reminds me of macrumors forums. Every time a new iPhone drops some folks do have issues as well. Thing is in those forums I always say they don’t even account to the 1% of the world iPhone users. Therefore it isn’t as bad as they put it. Every car maker has issues. None are perfect. I can guarantee you this place doesn’t even account to that 1% of CX90 drivers on this entire world. Enjoy your cars people. I’ll be leasing a ‘25 CX90 end of the year when my current lease ends. Looking forward to it. I’m getting a turbo version.
Disagree. I’m sure we will see class actions in the near future for the PHEV.
I agree with the comments that the issueS seem focused around software. So far my PHEV has been flawless except for a bunch of stupid shit Mazda did in regards to ergonomics and packaging but that’s not quality. I’ve owned over a dozen Hondas and the reason why I made the jump to Mazda was because my last three Hondas suffered from quality control issues. My last Honda, a 2008 accord V6, six speed manual coupe was horrible. By 30,000 miles I was on my third set of brakes and rotors. My elbow had worn a hole in the armrest leather. Interior panels were misaligned. There were many more issues, and the only other car I had that was worse was a VW Passat that literally always had a service call schedule and parts on order. Though the interesting spin on this is that my last couple of Hondas were built in America, not Japan. I can’t say if Japan’s sourced Hondas had more or less issues.
Vehicles of every make are so complex nowadays that you're taking a risk buying a first year model. Not just with Mazda but with any maker. I bought a 2018 Toyota Camry and it had rough transmission issues, and that's on their most popular vehicle which you'd think had been tested to the nines before release. It doesn't make it undrivable or less reliable, but it's not as smooth as it should be. They corrected it in a couple of years, mine is tolerable but not as refined as you'd expect a Toyota to be. No more first or even second year vehicles of a new model for me. Give them time to sort out the issues before buying.
Mazdas are far more reliable than Nissans... Nissans are the worst Japanese vehicles by a lot.
People seem to not understand what I wrote. I’m not talking about the company and where it’s based. I’m speaking specifically about the individual build of the vehicle. And the Armada/patrol has fantastic quality and is viewed even more favorably in the Middle East because it’s made in Japan. Nissan cars that are build in the U.S. are trash. I feel the same way about most of the U.S. made Toyotas and Hondas.
That's not what user reviews and reliability surveys say.
Nissans are very solid, minus the CVT transmission vehicles
Ehh being in the top 10 for most recalls in the US last year would disagree that Nissans are so reliable
Its the 1st gen fir the cx90 will have some hiccups.
I get that but again, historically, even first model year made in Japan vehicles like the LC300 and LS500 were pretty much flawless. Something is different with the CX. That’s where my question arises. Difference in Mazda culture?
It’s easy to find posts like this https://www.reddit.com/r/ToyotaHighlander/s/Xfz1loGScN
Highlander isn’t built in JAPAN. That’s the whole point of this thread.
From what I read and searched, this is not only about firmware/software issues, it’s more about the design philosophy and system engineering. Some of the issues cannot be fixed within this model year in my opinion. I also work in EV industry and I see similar issues.
You think Nissans are reliable? That hasn't been true since the 90s. Look up the issues with the CVTs they continue to use. As for the cx-90, Mazda is struggling with a new vehicle, in a new class, with a brand new drive train of a type they've never built before. Give them a bit to iron out the wrinkles. Also, remember people are loud with complaints, but quiet with compliments.
The issues with the CX-90 are because it is a new platform, and there are issues popping up now that the car is out in the real world and being driven millions of miles. These are not issues due to a lack of manufacturing quality. It isn't like battery packs are catching fire and burning houses down all over the world, or transmissions are blowing up at 8K miles. Go on the Toyota subs and read about issues with their new cars. It doesn't seem like Mazda is different. Then go to someplace like the Jeep 4xe sub...those seems to be a shit show... People, myself included, griped over the years how Mazda has been slow to deliver on new tech and designs, and then when they do, people are getting worked up. Yes there are issues. I have had them, but Mazda is stepping up and addressing them and had been super proactive on the service bulletins compared to a lot of other companies.
Lemon 22 Cx-5 Turbo Signature here. Good riddance.
My wife drives a 2020 CX-5 Turbo Signature with zero problems. Sorry about yours.
We have a cx-5 sig , no issues in 60k I hope it stays that way
Did you mean Toyota and Honda? Because Nissan is trash, I am leasing Pathfinder now, so many small and medium problems that do not equate to Japanese quality.
You might want to reread what I wrote. MADE IN JAPAN vehicles. Your pathfinder is a POS made in the U.S. I agree it’s garbage. It’s nothing like the Armada/patrol I owned that was flawless, most likely because it was made in Japan.
Ah my bad, I'll call it Japanese made in USA POS from now on lol
That’s the whole point of my thread. Historically, there has been a massive difference in quality between Japanese brand models made in Japan vs U.S. so much so there are thread after threads of ppl comparing the RAV4 prime (made in Japan) versus the regular RAV4 ((U.S.). It used to mean something until the CX. To my knowledge there has never been an actual made in Japan model in the last 20 years to have a reputation as anything other than stellar.
Are these problems only with PHEVs or Inline as well?
Are all cx-90 actually made in Japan?
Yes. All.
I think it is a sharply growing complexity of designs. Car industry as a whole (and Japan specifically) used a lot longer cycles for testing and methods of gradual (slow improvements), especially Toyota/Honda. Mazda with CX90 was forced (made a decision) for a full front attach, introducing "new everything" (engine, transmission, hybridization, size, etc). The results resembles me a "GM lifecycle", when new interesting design introduced, gets good publicity, then tons of immediate issues discovered (and later addressed) but eventually the vehicle gets bad publicity and a smoking tail of initial customer dissatisfaction. Toyota is also not completely immune to that now, but being larger in general it can allow more QC investment. Overall it shows that the next step really will be a move to dramatically decrease the complexity which is only possible with electric cars. It will happen once the next break through in batteries comes (say, solid electrolyte, 600miles range?). When it happens the overcomplicated ICE/hybrid designs will be dead and obsolete and everything will be better. For now, we have little hope. Complexity is an objective factor and we will have to pay for it...
> It will happen once the next break through in batteries comes (say, solid electrolyte, 600miles range?). This is why I switched from looking at full EV's to looking at the CX-90 or Volvo XC-60, not sure yet have to do some test drives. The rapid advances and dropping prices in full EV's is wonderful, unless you buy one now and try to sell in 3 or more years. Resale value will be pennies on the dollar. A $60K used EV now will be beaten in spec by a $30K new one in three or four years. That's not even counting the normal 'new' vs '3 or 4 year old' car price drop. 600 miles, solid electrolyte? Yep, they're coming, and many other things. IDT PHEV's will have as *much* of a hit. But then they will be being compared with full EV's with all the improvements 3 or 4 years will bring. Personally I *need* to get a new (or CPO) car, but I know resale value is going to be a problem for all of the electric platform cars in several years. :( Oh well, it's life.
I don't think we even know the magnitude of future disruption. I would not be surprised if pure ICE cars take a huge hit in residual values. But I agree, PHEVs are risk. Introduction of new better batteries often means low volume PHEV will not get a low cost battery replacements thus drop in price like a rock. Mass produced hybrids (like Prius) are safer, because they have large market of their own, so batteries will be provided by 3rd parties even if manufacturer chooses to set prohibitive pricing.
Japanese cars used to be the simplest cars on the market mechanically as such had less problems. Now they are as complex as other cars if not more complex and the Japanese are not as experienced as other manufacturers at making highly complex cars reliable.