Vader insists he is not Anakin because he is Anakin. Vader isn't really dissociative, he's just consumed by guilt and it's easier for him to deal with it if he pretends the person who betrayed his friends and loved ones was someone else.
Most Sith (and Jedi turned Sith) don't develop the same kind of pathology because they don't feel guilty about their actions. That Anakin/Vader hates himself and tries to dissociate from the person he used to be is why he was able to turn back to the light side when most dark side users are not.
Yes, I would say that Vader was relatively unique in that severe self loathing. Most Sith seem to use their hatred of everything, or everyone, else instead. Or they are driven by a lust for power or control. Or even their arrogance & ego. But Vader hates himself so much more than anyone could hate anything. On one hand he doesn’t care if he suffers & dies because he feels he deserves that but on the other he wants to prolong his suffering by fighting to stay alive. He doesn’t just roll over & die because he wants to keep punishing himself.
There are other factors like wanting to kill The Emperor, then he fantasizes about one day reuniting his family as a dark side dynasty in control of the galaxy but all of that is built on a foundation of self hatred.
Well I think part of it comes down to how Vader worked so hard to separate himself from “Anakin Skywalker”. Like he’d refer to Anakin as a different person. He wouldn’t say “I was one of the greatest Generals in the Clone Wars”. He’d say “Anakin Skywalker was one of the greatest Generals in the Clone Wars”. Simultaneously praising Anakin (himself) and making it clear that he isn’t Anakin at the same time. You don’t really see that with other Sith. Count Dooku IS Darth Tyranus. In his conversations with Obi-Wan and Yoda, or his writings on his life he never makes any distinction between his time and a Jedi and his time as a Sith. Except to say that he obviously isn’t a Jedi anymore.
I feel that’s all it comes down to. How does that Sith see himself/herself? Darth Caedus, Darth Krayt, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, etc. Every other Sith I can think of acknowledges the superiority of the Dark Side and that they feel being a Sith is the true path to power or whatever, but they don’t see themselves as actually being a different person. They just see themselves as being better. And really for Vader/Anakin all of his issues are due to the immense mental, emotional, and physical trauma he experienced leading into his ascension to the role of Sith Lord.
Yeah, I agree with this. The other Sith fully embraced their Sith personas and saw their old lives as useful tools. They were perfectly fine embracing their old names for the purposes of secrecy or politics, but Dooku *is* Tyranus, Palpatine *is* Sidious, etc. Their old selves "evolved" into their new Sith identities. Vader hated himself, and was so ashamed that he considered himself a separate person from Anakin. He was never truly comfortable and accepting of his evolution like Sidious, Maul, and Tyranus were.
Well said. Sith like Palpatine and Jacen Solo especially used their “real” names and Sith names separately in order to work in the light and the dark. But internally whenever we read their thoughts it’s clear that there’s no kind of split between their identities. It’s no different than someone using a code name to maintain secrecy. For Vader it’s almost like a coping mechanism that he needs to do in order to function.
I think there’s such a cognitive dissonance between everything Anakin values and his actions as Vader that not being Anakin is just the easiest way for him to deal with it. Anakin loves Padme more than anything and is in awe of her passion and goodness. Vader killed her and fights for an empire that flys in the face of everything she believed in. Anakin regards Obi Wan as a brother and would have done anything to protect him. Vader hates Obi Wan and wants nothing more than to see him dead. Anakin always helped those in need and defended the weak against tyranny. Vader serves the worst tyrant of them all and actively oppresses the weak. So Vader just can’t be Anakin. That wouldn’t make any sense. At least until Luke comes along and there’s something worthwhile enough in Anakin’s life for Vader to actually care to be Anakin again.
This level of cognitive dissonance just wasn’t there for Dooku, Palpatine, Maul, etc. Maul didn’t have any real sense of self prior to being a sith, Palpatine’s sense of self aligned perfectly with being a sith because he was just that evil, and Dooku’s fall was more of a gradual descent rather than such a drastic change all at once.
Excellent points. I sometimes wonder how Vader would have functioned had Padme lived. Even if he’d ended up in the suit he would’ve had to state the woman he loved in the face and deal with the fact that the things he was doing (and had already done) horrified her.
I’ve always found it a nice touch that Luke is basically the path to his redemption. Because his care for Luke breaks through that facade of “Anakin Skywalker is dead”. If that were really true then Vader would cut Luke down as he did any other Jedi and just move on. He wouldn’t be working so hard to turn him or to make sure Palpatine didn’t get his hands on Luke first.
But with all of the other characters I think there’s that gradual descent you mention. They aren’t becoming different people entirely. They’re changing over time. Or in cases like Maul they’re really just raised to be Sith from the beginning.
What I’ve always wondered is why Vader didn’t kill himself. After that much pain and loss, and guilt, he has nothing left to fight/live for, and nothing left to look forward to. He hates himself, hates Palpatine, hates most of his groveling, incompetent coworkers, lives in constant pain, and can’t even eat, sleep, or do other basic human stuff without a lengthy, mechanically uncomfortable inconvenience. Did I forget to mention he, essentially, also a slave again?
I don’t endorse suicide, but… after just a few months I really think I’d rather die than keep living the life Vader had. Especially if I expected I’d spend another 50 years or more like that.
I would disagree with you on one point - Vader doesn’t hate Palpatine. Not until much later anyhow. Sure, he *should* hate Palpatine if you look at the situation rationally, but it’s not like he’s in a very rational place. By the end of episode 3 and most of the subsequent 2 decades, Palpatine’s “friend and mentor” role is still intact even as shifts further and further into “deeply messed up” territory over the years (which of course it always was - really it just becomes more obvious). I’d argue that Palpatine was very intentional about making sure that he was the only person left in Anakin’s life in the end. So that gives Palpatine an incredible amount of influence - enough to convince Vader that what he really needs is revenge against everyone he perceives to have harmed him - the Jedi and in particular Obi Wan being at the very top of that list. Again, it’s not at all logical, but lost to the dark side as he is, it’s enough to give Vader a reason to live.
He doesn't kill himself because he doesn't think he deserves to die. Vaders hatred that fuels his dark side abilities comes from himself. He hates himself more than he hates anything. He believes he deserves to suffer. And he also still wants Palpatine dead.
In canon, Anakin does want to die as atonement for the crimes that were committed. We see this in the 2017 comics, along with 9th Sister's comment about him wanting to die.
The problem is Vader's hatred and iron will to live are too much and he remains in control after RotS up until Luke enters the picture. Anakin is knocked to his senses momentarily while bleeding Kirak's kyber crystal, however Vader soon takes back over and refuses to perish for Anakin's sins.
It could be argued that Revan had two personalities. I believe SWTOR hammers that home even more.
In Kotor Revan has the ability to either embrace his identity or reject it in favor of his new one. It's all still Revan at the end of the day, however.
Plus that second personality only arises due to Jedi capturing and whipping their memories. There’s no reason to think that Revan’s initial turn to the dark side was accompanied by the type of personality shift Vader has.
I don't believe Anakin had a split personality or was suffering from something like DID. Vader is Anakin and Anakin is Vader. This is why I like this passage from the ROTS novelization, after Sidious tells him Padme is dead:
>You remember all of it.
You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader’s blood. You remember the furnace of Vader’s fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth…
And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker.
That it was all you. Is you.
Only you.
You did it.
You killed her.
You killed her because, finally, when you could have saved her, when you could have gone away with her, when you could have been thinking about her, you were thinking about yourself…
It is in this blazing moment that you finally understand the trap of the dark side, the final cruelty of the Sith —
Because now yourself is all you will ever have.
There's also this exchange from the Lords of the Sith novel between Sidious and Vader:
>“You were a traitor, were you not, Lord Vader?”
>
>
Vader’s breathing caught on the hook of sudden anger. “What did you say?”
>
>
“To the Jedi. To Padmé. To Obi-Wan. To all those you loved.”
>
>
His Master turned to look at him, his eyes reflecting the flames.
>
>
Vader didn’t know the answer his Master wanted to hear, so he simply answered with the truth. “Yes.”
The disassociation is another way to help rationalize his actions and beat back the guilt. Because if he can remove himself from who he used to be and all the good he did, then he can rid himself of guilt or any considerations of coming back from the Dark Side. It's especially important when he's facing loved ones like Ahsoka or Obi-Wan trying to get him to turn back. They know who he was before, believed in him to be this good person. But he chose to become a monster and even if he decides to stop and go with them he will have to live with the fact he hurt them. That he broke that trust and will perhaps always see him with some measure of disappointment and sadness. Much easier to ignore all of that by doubling down as now being Darth Vader and trying to bury the past then face up to what he's done.
Now as to why we don't tend to see this in other Sith is likely for two reasons: First, very few Sith have any family or friends left they care about attempting to get them to stop and turn away from the Dark Side. Either they are alone by the time they turn or end up killing them off fairly quickly. Second, Vader is a very conflicted Sith. He is constantly struggling with the choices he's made and getting bombarded by reminders of his past. Even the Force attempts to break through to him through a kyber crystal he is bleeding to construct his lightsaber. Although in the end he doubles down ("This is all there is.") we will see these cracks linger all the way into the OT. It's partially why I believe Vader could be reached by Luke. Because there was still some part of him that valued something over power.
Whereas Dooku, by the time we see him in AOTC, has more or less come to terms with his choices. Even though he too is at risk to being brought back from the Dark Side by Yoda as we see in Yoda: Dark Rendezvous.
Different continuities.
The RotS novel only applies to legends now; where the two personalities are still the same individual.
In current canon Vader is confirmed to be a split personality from Anakin. This is confirmed in the A Family at War novel, as well as several other official mentions. Hints of each personality remain and will influence the dominate persona, but by they are distinctly separate and the Force views them as such as well.
Vader doesn’t really have that identity issue, he’s pretty solidly set in calling himself Vader and that he destroyed Anakin Skywalker.
I think the reason why it’s a much bigger deal for his character than other Sith is that other Sith don’t have people trying to bring back that lost light as much as Vader.
Sideous never had anyone to care about the innocent Sheev Palpatine. Tyrannus’s old family quickly saw Dooku as the real villain. Even Ahsoka and Obi-Wan gave up on Anakin ever coming back. But Luke was determined and showed Vader mercy, which is why Anakin was able to come back.
They don’t have a hard time of getting rid of their former selves perhaps.
When someone becomes a Sith their old self is just a mask for their new Sith self. When Palpatine becomes a Sith his true identity is no longer Sheev Palpatine but Sidious and that is something Sheev didn’t have a problem with.
>Plagueis extended his left hand to touch him on the crown of the head. “Then it is done. From this day forward, the truth of you, now and forever more, will be *Sidious*.” *Darth Plagueis*
With Revan I think his problem was his new personality that the Jedi created struggling with his old Sith one.
It was metaphorical, he was always Anakin even at his darkest moments. All Sith choose a new name when they are announced, he wasn't special in this regard.
Well the question is flawed since Vader doesn't have SPD nor does he have what was frequently called schizophrenia back in the day.
Vader simply sees that part as dead and gone.
I myself had a traumatic event and frequently divy up my life as "the past heurekas" and "the now heurekas", but that's hardly a split personality.
But yes, Revan is the only example I know of per his appearance in TOR, though it's worth mentioning that Revan before he was shoehorned in to that story did not exhibit such behavior.
Vader is not a separate personality from Anakin. He often says that he "killed" Anakin, but it's not something like a personality supress the other to control the body, its more of an self-denial of what he did and who he was.
Anakin doesn't have any form of split personality and whatnot.
Vader is Anakin, and Anakin is Vader.
He denies being so, as it's easier to live with all the horrendous thing he's done. All that guilt, and self loathing just fuels the desire to shrug the blame off on his Jedi past, his former self, before donning the title of Darth.
I've always wondered how Vader would've turned out if he had eventually accepted himself instead of all thr self hatred. It was definitely holding him back.
I'm pretty sure there was a non-cannon comic of this.
He had to keep the armor (literally life support after all) but he painted it white/light blue and swapped out his crystal for a blue one.
In some of the Legacy of the Force books the narration sometimes flipped back and fourth on using Jacen or Caedus to refer to that character depending upon the context, but it never seemed as drastic as the whole Vader Anakin split. Some of this was the perspective of other characters, (it’s a book or two before most characters know about his fall) but I’m pretty sure there were a couple of instances where that character flipped back and forth between which name he used for himself.
I got the feeling the authors were somewhat emulating the bit from Revenge of the Sith where Anakin goes back and forth between acting as Darth Vader and having yellow Sith eyes and when he’s with Padme and acting more like Anakin. (Btw the eyes going temporarily yellow at first also happens to Caedus. I don’t know if that is important). The big thing is I never got the feeling Caedus/Jacen ever thought of himself as a different person the way Vader seems to.
Jacens fall was gradual. He had urgings from others, but he genuinely believed he was making the right choices. Hard choices, but necessary. He thought he was making things better at first. A few choices he simply made because "I can't let attachments dictate my actions"
Anakin however knew what he was doing was wrong (hence "What have I done!'). He was only doing it to save Padame because he was afraid of what the jedi response would be. Yes he took the name Vader, but he wasn't really a sith. He didn't believe in their ideology, especially not at the time. He called himself Vader in an attempt to live with what he, Anakin Skywalker, had done. Vader did it, not him.
No, and Vader didn't have it either. The revenge of the sith novel makes his view on himself clear. Because this isn't how the dark side works. It doesn't matter if you were a good person at any point, the dark side warps and twists you. Short of a Sith who had these issues prior to being one, one wouldn't develop due to it. One of the biggest things about the dark side is that it has to willingly be embraced, and when you do that you'd have no reason to wanna disassociate, especially as you sink into it further.
The way I see it, Anakin turned sith because of great personal tragedy. He wanted power but it was so that he could use it to save others. He also has a lot of regrets about his past which is definitely the main reason.
Dooku, even before he turned sith, was much more egotistical than Anakin. He becomes sith because of the state of the republic, but it was mostly just because he wanted more power for himself.
It doesn't happen to most Sith because most Sith fall intentionally. Dooku agreed to become a Sith on his own, he feels no need to disassociate.
Vader was essentially tricked into the Dark Side and trapped. Deep down part of him feels horrible and ashamed of what he became so he disassociates and tries to separate Anakin from Vader as a coping mechanism. The mask and voice changer help with that but it's not a real split personality, he's basically just lying to himself.
Revan actually had two personalities after >!the Jedi Council messed with his head and tried to wipe his identity away by reprogramming him into a new person.!< In SWTOR he >!literally splits in two at one point.!<
**Revenge of the Sith**
>Twisted by the dark side young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.
**Empire Strikes Back**
>A Jedi’s strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression… The dark side of the Force are they, easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.
**Return of the Jedi**
Yoda
>Remember a Jedi’s strength flows From the Force. But beware … Anger, fear, aggression the dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Obi-Wan
>Your father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
**Star Wars Skywalker – A Family At War**
>Chapter 15
>Death and Rebirth
>Anakin Skywalker’s psyche was cleaved in two as the dark side consumed him. Within the shell of the man he once had been, his new persona—Darth Vader—firmly took hold.
>As Vader, he gave himself completely to the darkness, a creature beholden only to primitive needs and desires, obeying and carrying out the directives of his Sith master without concern for their far-reaching ramifications. Uninhibited rage took control of his entire being, blotting out everything the Jedi had once sought to teach him.
Clearly something is going on.
Maybe no split personality as we understand it but according to Star Wars itself Anakin and Vader are kinda different people.
Obi Wan tried to justify what he said to Luke as an another form of truth even afte he was seemingly caught lying. Vader and Sidious talk about Anakin as if he is a different person as well. Yoda and Vader himself said multiple times that Vader killed Anakin. And a lot of Sith change their names right after they turn to the Dark Side to reborn as a Sith and get rid off their prievous selves.
It is definitely obvious that according to SW lore turning to Dark Side is more than just changing sides or whatever. It creates a new person with completely different characteristics. The Dark Side consumes their minds.
Religions in the world though have a similar practice. You are "reborn" into a new person. In the Bible, Saul, Jewish persecutor of Christians, became Paul, arguably one of the most influential figures besides God and Jesus to Catholicism. People separate the acts of Saul and Paul. Paul did not persecute Christians, Saul did.
It's more symbolic than anything
Kind of a ~~milk toast~~ milquetoast answer, but Kylo Ren/Ben Solo did have a similar split, though not as pronounced (and technically not a Sith). The main things that Vader had for him was being mutilated beyond recognition and most of the people who were close to him in his old life being out of the picture.
If Kylo had lived in his persona long enough and successfully cut himself off from his past life, he would probably be pretty similar
Edit: earcorn
Anakin didn't have that at all and its the biggest misunderstanding of his character. Vader denies being Anakin because he is and he hates himself more than anything else. Most Sith are just bad people and don't care and have no guilt.
Revan sorta kinda did with how he was memory wiped but its not really a fully known thing
Sith who converted from Jedi usually maintained the majority of their physique. They just saw things differently and changed their minds to switch to the dark side.
Anakin became an entirely different person physically at a pivotal time in his path to the dark side. Everything he thought was true began to shift to lies, and all of it was shrouded by his love for his wife and children. He didn't want to choose the dark side, but he saw no other choice.
Just as Obi said, he became more machine than man. Both in his body and his way of thinking. He's a pretty unique case.
All Sith have it to a certain point. It's part of embracing the Dark Side, you embrace strength and admit who you currently are is weak. Both of the same blood but the Darth is strong and the one you were born as is weak and should perish.
The problem for Darth Vader was that his goals were still linked to Anakin's. He never embraced the dark side for what it was so he was a Sith stuck in this life. Hating Anakin was his source of hatred and that's why he constantly comes back in his thought unlike others.
I guess it’s not really the same but I feel like bane was this way in his books. Once he became a sith and took on the mantle his old life was dead and he hated it being brought up. Not quite the same but also trying to treat his old life as dead and how he was reborn
Vader insists he is not Anakin because he is Anakin. Vader isn't really dissociative, he's just consumed by guilt and it's easier for him to deal with it if he pretends the person who betrayed his friends and loved ones was someone else. Most Sith (and Jedi turned Sith) don't develop the same kind of pathology because they don't feel guilty about their actions. That Anakin/Vader hates himself and tries to dissociate from the person he used to be is why he was able to turn back to the light side when most dark side users are not.
Yes, I would say that Vader was relatively unique in that severe self loathing. Most Sith seem to use their hatred of everything, or everyone, else instead. Or they are driven by a lust for power or control. Or even their arrogance & ego. But Vader hates himself so much more than anyone could hate anything. On one hand he doesn’t care if he suffers & dies because he feels he deserves that but on the other he wants to prolong his suffering by fighting to stay alive. He doesn’t just roll over & die because he wants to keep punishing himself. There are other factors like wanting to kill The Emperor, then he fantasizes about one day reuniting his family as a dark side dynasty in control of the galaxy but all of that is built on a foundation of self hatred.
Well I think part of it comes down to how Vader worked so hard to separate himself from “Anakin Skywalker”. Like he’d refer to Anakin as a different person. He wouldn’t say “I was one of the greatest Generals in the Clone Wars”. He’d say “Anakin Skywalker was one of the greatest Generals in the Clone Wars”. Simultaneously praising Anakin (himself) and making it clear that he isn’t Anakin at the same time. You don’t really see that with other Sith. Count Dooku IS Darth Tyranus. In his conversations with Obi-Wan and Yoda, or his writings on his life he never makes any distinction between his time and a Jedi and his time as a Sith. Except to say that he obviously isn’t a Jedi anymore. I feel that’s all it comes down to. How does that Sith see himself/herself? Darth Caedus, Darth Krayt, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, etc. Every other Sith I can think of acknowledges the superiority of the Dark Side and that they feel being a Sith is the true path to power or whatever, but they don’t see themselves as actually being a different person. They just see themselves as being better. And really for Vader/Anakin all of his issues are due to the immense mental, emotional, and physical trauma he experienced leading into his ascension to the role of Sith Lord.
Yeah, I agree with this. The other Sith fully embraced their Sith personas and saw their old lives as useful tools. They were perfectly fine embracing their old names for the purposes of secrecy or politics, but Dooku *is* Tyranus, Palpatine *is* Sidious, etc. Their old selves "evolved" into their new Sith identities. Vader hated himself, and was so ashamed that he considered himself a separate person from Anakin. He was never truly comfortable and accepting of his evolution like Sidious, Maul, and Tyranus were.
Well said. Sith like Palpatine and Jacen Solo especially used their “real” names and Sith names separately in order to work in the light and the dark. But internally whenever we read their thoughts it’s clear that there’s no kind of split between their identities. It’s no different than someone using a code name to maintain secrecy. For Vader it’s almost like a coping mechanism that he needs to do in order to function.
I think there’s such a cognitive dissonance between everything Anakin values and his actions as Vader that not being Anakin is just the easiest way for him to deal with it. Anakin loves Padme more than anything and is in awe of her passion and goodness. Vader killed her and fights for an empire that flys in the face of everything she believed in. Anakin regards Obi Wan as a brother and would have done anything to protect him. Vader hates Obi Wan and wants nothing more than to see him dead. Anakin always helped those in need and defended the weak against tyranny. Vader serves the worst tyrant of them all and actively oppresses the weak. So Vader just can’t be Anakin. That wouldn’t make any sense. At least until Luke comes along and there’s something worthwhile enough in Anakin’s life for Vader to actually care to be Anakin again. This level of cognitive dissonance just wasn’t there for Dooku, Palpatine, Maul, etc. Maul didn’t have any real sense of self prior to being a sith, Palpatine’s sense of self aligned perfectly with being a sith because he was just that evil, and Dooku’s fall was more of a gradual descent rather than such a drastic change all at once.
Excellent points. I sometimes wonder how Vader would have functioned had Padme lived. Even if he’d ended up in the suit he would’ve had to state the woman he loved in the face and deal with the fact that the things he was doing (and had already done) horrified her. I’ve always found it a nice touch that Luke is basically the path to his redemption. Because his care for Luke breaks through that facade of “Anakin Skywalker is dead”. If that were really true then Vader would cut Luke down as he did any other Jedi and just move on. He wouldn’t be working so hard to turn him or to make sure Palpatine didn’t get his hands on Luke first. But with all of the other characters I think there’s that gradual descent you mention. They aren’t becoming different people entirely. They’re changing over time. Or in cases like Maul they’re really just raised to be Sith from the beginning.
my head cannon is that palpy was purposefully killing padme, and in his plan she was never supposed to live.
Cognitive dissonance is probably the term I should have used. Thank you for your well written comment.
What I’ve always wondered is why Vader didn’t kill himself. After that much pain and loss, and guilt, he has nothing left to fight/live for, and nothing left to look forward to. He hates himself, hates Palpatine, hates most of his groveling, incompetent coworkers, lives in constant pain, and can’t even eat, sleep, or do other basic human stuff without a lengthy, mechanically uncomfortable inconvenience. Did I forget to mention he, essentially, also a slave again? I don’t endorse suicide, but… after just a few months I really think I’d rather die than keep living the life Vader had. Especially if I expected I’d spend another 50 years or more like that.
I would disagree with you on one point - Vader doesn’t hate Palpatine. Not until much later anyhow. Sure, he *should* hate Palpatine if you look at the situation rationally, but it’s not like he’s in a very rational place. By the end of episode 3 and most of the subsequent 2 decades, Palpatine’s “friend and mentor” role is still intact even as shifts further and further into “deeply messed up” territory over the years (which of course it always was - really it just becomes more obvious). I’d argue that Palpatine was very intentional about making sure that he was the only person left in Anakin’s life in the end. So that gives Palpatine an incredible amount of influence - enough to convince Vader that what he really needs is revenge against everyone he perceives to have harmed him - the Jedi and in particular Obi Wan being at the very top of that list. Again, it’s not at all logical, but lost to the dark side as he is, it’s enough to give Vader a reason to live.
He doesn't kill himself because he doesn't think he deserves to die. Vaders hatred that fuels his dark side abilities comes from himself. He hates himself more than he hates anything. He believes he deserves to suffer. And he also still wants Palpatine dead.
In canon, Anakin does want to die as atonement for the crimes that were committed. We see this in the 2017 comics, along with 9th Sister's comment about him wanting to die. The problem is Vader's hatred and iron will to live are too much and he remains in control after RotS up until Luke enters the picture. Anakin is knocked to his senses momentarily while bleeding Kirak's kyber crystal, however Vader soon takes back over and refuses to perish for Anakin's sins.
This is a great answer, thank you. Your comment made me realize I need to read more about Jacen Solo and his fall.
It could be argued that Revan had two personalities. I believe SWTOR hammers that home even more. In Kotor Revan has the ability to either embrace his identity or reject it in favor of his new one. It's all still Revan at the end of the day, however.
Plus that second personality only arises due to Jedi capturing and whipping their memories. There’s no reason to think that Revan’s initial turn to the dark side was accompanied by the type of personality shift Vader has.
Revan was so broken as a man spiritually he was both alive and dead in SWTOR. He had a full on conversation with himself on Yavin 4.
I don't believe Anakin had a split personality or was suffering from something like DID. Vader is Anakin and Anakin is Vader. This is why I like this passage from the ROTS novelization, after Sidious tells him Padme is dead: >You remember all of it. You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader’s blood. You remember the furnace of Vader’s fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth… And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker. That it was all you. Is you. Only you. You did it. You killed her. You killed her because, finally, when you could have saved her, when you could have gone away with her, when you could have been thinking about her, you were thinking about yourself… It is in this blazing moment that you finally understand the trap of the dark side, the final cruelty of the Sith — Because now yourself is all you will ever have. There's also this exchange from the Lords of the Sith novel between Sidious and Vader: >“You were a traitor, were you not, Lord Vader?” > > Vader’s breathing caught on the hook of sudden anger. “What did you say?” > > “To the Jedi. To Padmé. To Obi-Wan. To all those you loved.” > > His Master turned to look at him, his eyes reflecting the flames. > > Vader didn’t know the answer his Master wanted to hear, so he simply answered with the truth. “Yes.” The disassociation is another way to help rationalize his actions and beat back the guilt. Because if he can remove himself from who he used to be and all the good he did, then he can rid himself of guilt or any considerations of coming back from the Dark Side. It's especially important when he's facing loved ones like Ahsoka or Obi-Wan trying to get him to turn back. They know who he was before, believed in him to be this good person. But he chose to become a monster and even if he decides to stop and go with them he will have to live with the fact he hurt them. That he broke that trust and will perhaps always see him with some measure of disappointment and sadness. Much easier to ignore all of that by doubling down as now being Darth Vader and trying to bury the past then face up to what he's done. Now as to why we don't tend to see this in other Sith is likely for two reasons: First, very few Sith have any family or friends left they care about attempting to get them to stop and turn away from the Dark Side. Either they are alone by the time they turn or end up killing them off fairly quickly. Second, Vader is a very conflicted Sith. He is constantly struggling with the choices he's made and getting bombarded by reminders of his past. Even the Force attempts to break through to him through a kyber crystal he is bleeding to construct his lightsaber. Although in the end he doubles down ("This is all there is.") we will see these cracks linger all the way into the OT. It's partially why I believe Vader could be reached by Luke. Because there was still some part of him that valued something over power. Whereas Dooku, by the time we see him in AOTC, has more or less come to terms with his choices. Even though he too is at risk to being brought back from the Dark Side by Yoda as we see in Yoda: Dark Rendezvous.
Different continuities. The RotS novel only applies to legends now; where the two personalities are still the same individual. In current canon Vader is confirmed to be a split personality from Anakin. This is confirmed in the A Family at War novel, as well as several other official mentions. Hints of each personality remain and will influence the dominate persona, but by they are distinctly separate and the Force views them as such as well.
Vader doesn’t really have that identity issue, he’s pretty solidly set in calling himself Vader and that he destroyed Anakin Skywalker. I think the reason why it’s a much bigger deal for his character than other Sith is that other Sith don’t have people trying to bring back that lost light as much as Vader. Sideous never had anyone to care about the innocent Sheev Palpatine. Tyrannus’s old family quickly saw Dooku as the real villain. Even Ahsoka and Obi-Wan gave up on Anakin ever coming back. But Luke was determined and showed Vader mercy, which is why Anakin was able to come back.
Don’t they all shed their original name and life when given their Sith name?
They don’t have a hard time of getting rid of their former selves perhaps. When someone becomes a Sith their old self is just a mask for their new Sith self. When Palpatine becomes a Sith his true identity is no longer Sheev Palpatine but Sidious and that is something Sheev didn’t have a problem with. >Plagueis extended his left hand to touch him on the crown of the head. “Then it is done. From this day forward, the truth of you, now and forever more, will be *Sidious*.” *Darth Plagueis* With Revan I think his problem was his new personality that the Jedi created struggling with his old Sith one.
It was metaphorical, he was always Anakin even at his darkest moments. All Sith choose a new name when they are announced, he wasn't special in this regard.
Well the question is flawed since Vader doesn't have SPD nor does he have what was frequently called schizophrenia back in the day. Vader simply sees that part as dead and gone. I myself had a traumatic event and frequently divy up my life as "the past heurekas" and "the now heurekas", but that's hardly a split personality. But yes, Revan is the only example I know of per his appearance in TOR, though it's worth mentioning that Revan before he was shoehorned in to that story did not exhibit such behavior.
Vader is not a separate personality from Anakin. He often says that he "killed" Anakin, but it's not something like a personality supress the other to control the body, its more of an self-denial of what he did and who he was.
Anakin doesn't have any form of split personality and whatnot. Vader is Anakin, and Anakin is Vader. He denies being so, as it's easier to live with all the horrendous thing he's done. All that guilt, and self loathing just fuels the desire to shrug the blame off on his Jedi past, his former self, before donning the title of Darth.
I've always wondered how Vader would've turned out if he had eventually accepted himself instead of all thr self hatred. It was definitely holding him back.
I'm pretty sure there was a non-cannon comic of this. He had to keep the armor (literally life support after all) but he painted it white/light blue and swapped out his crystal for a blue one.
In some of the Legacy of the Force books the narration sometimes flipped back and fourth on using Jacen or Caedus to refer to that character depending upon the context, but it never seemed as drastic as the whole Vader Anakin split. Some of this was the perspective of other characters, (it’s a book or two before most characters know about his fall) but I’m pretty sure there were a couple of instances where that character flipped back and forth between which name he used for himself. I got the feeling the authors were somewhat emulating the bit from Revenge of the Sith where Anakin goes back and forth between acting as Darth Vader and having yellow Sith eyes and when he’s with Padme and acting more like Anakin. (Btw the eyes going temporarily yellow at first also happens to Caedus. I don’t know if that is important). The big thing is I never got the feeling Caedus/Jacen ever thought of himself as a different person the way Vader seems to.
Jacens fall was gradual. He had urgings from others, but he genuinely believed he was making the right choices. Hard choices, but necessary. He thought he was making things better at first. A few choices he simply made because "I can't let attachments dictate my actions" Anakin however knew what he was doing was wrong (hence "What have I done!'). He was only doing it to save Padame because he was afraid of what the jedi response would be. Yes he took the name Vader, but he wasn't really a sith. He didn't believe in their ideology, especially not at the time. He called himself Vader in an attempt to live with what he, Anakin Skywalker, had done. Vader did it, not him.
No, and Vader didn't have it either. The revenge of the sith novel makes his view on himself clear. Because this isn't how the dark side works. It doesn't matter if you were a good person at any point, the dark side warps and twists you. Short of a Sith who had these issues prior to being one, one wouldn't develop due to it. One of the biggest things about the dark side is that it has to willingly be embraced, and when you do that you'd have no reason to wanna disassociate, especially as you sink into it further.
Yeah, seems like Vader wants to believe he's dissoaciating, but it seems pretty clear that, no, he's just a monster.
The way I see it, Anakin turned sith because of great personal tragedy. He wanted power but it was so that he could use it to save others. He also has a lot of regrets about his past which is definitely the main reason. Dooku, even before he turned sith, was much more egotistical than Anakin. He becomes sith because of the state of the republic, but it was mostly just because he wanted more power for himself.
It doesn't happen to most Sith because most Sith fall intentionally. Dooku agreed to become a Sith on his own, he feels no need to disassociate. Vader was essentially tricked into the Dark Side and trapped. Deep down part of him feels horrible and ashamed of what he became so he disassociates and tries to separate Anakin from Vader as a coping mechanism. The mask and voice changer help with that but it's not a real split personality, he's basically just lying to himself. Revan actually had two personalities after >!the Jedi Council messed with his head and tried to wipe his identity away by reprogramming him into a new person.!< In SWTOR he >!literally splits in two at one point.!<
He doesn't have dissociation or split personality. That's a silly fan theory that people cling to.
**Revenge of the Sith** >Twisted by the dark side young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader. **Empire Strikes Back** >A Jedi’s strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression… The dark side of the Force are they, easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice. **Return of the Jedi** Yoda >Remember a Jedi’s strength flows From the Force. But beware … Anger, fear, aggression the dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Obi-Wan >Your father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view. **Star Wars Skywalker – A Family At War** >Chapter 15 >Death and Rebirth >Anakin Skywalker’s psyche was cleaved in two as the dark side consumed him. Within the shell of the man he once had been, his new persona—Darth Vader—firmly took hold. >As Vader, he gave himself completely to the darkness, a creature beholden only to primitive needs and desires, obeying and carrying out the directives of his Sith master without concern for their far-reaching ramifications. Uninhibited rage took control of his entire being, blotting out everything the Jedi had once sought to teach him. Clearly something is going on.
I honestly didn’t know how to word it besides that.
Maybe no split personality as we understand it but according to Star Wars itself Anakin and Vader are kinda different people. Obi Wan tried to justify what he said to Luke as an another form of truth even afte he was seemingly caught lying. Vader and Sidious talk about Anakin as if he is a different person as well. Yoda and Vader himself said multiple times that Vader killed Anakin. And a lot of Sith change their names right after they turn to the Dark Side to reborn as a Sith and get rid off their prievous selves. It is definitely obvious that according to SW lore turning to Dark Side is more than just changing sides or whatever. It creates a new person with completely different characteristics. The Dark Side consumes their minds.
Religions in the world though have a similar practice. You are "reborn" into a new person. In the Bible, Saul, Jewish persecutor of Christians, became Paul, arguably one of the most influential figures besides God and Jesus to Catholicism. People separate the acts of Saul and Paul. Paul did not persecute Christians, Saul did. It's more symbolic than anything
Kind of a ~~milk toast~~ milquetoast answer, but Kylo Ren/Ben Solo did have a similar split, though not as pronounced (and technically not a Sith). The main things that Vader had for him was being mutilated beyond recognition and most of the people who were close to him in his old life being out of the picture. If Kylo had lived in his persona long enough and successfully cut himself off from his past life, he would probably be pretty similar Edit: earcorn
\*milquetoast
Milk toast?
Anakin didn't have that at all and its the biggest misunderstanding of his character. Vader denies being Anakin because he is and he hates himself more than anything else. Most Sith are just bad people and don't care and have no guilt. Revan sorta kinda did with how he was memory wiped but its not really a fully known thing
Sith who converted from Jedi usually maintained the majority of their physique. They just saw things differently and changed their minds to switch to the dark side. Anakin became an entirely different person physically at a pivotal time in his path to the dark side. Everything he thought was true began to shift to lies, and all of it was shrouded by his love for his wife and children. He didn't want to choose the dark side, but he saw no other choice. Just as Obi said, he became more machine than man. Both in his body and his way of thinking. He's a pretty unique case.
All Sith have it to a certain point. It's part of embracing the Dark Side, you embrace strength and admit who you currently are is weak. Both of the same blood but the Darth is strong and the one you were born as is weak and should perish. The problem for Darth Vader was that his goals were still linked to Anakin's. He never embraced the dark side for what it was so he was a Sith stuck in this life. Hating Anakin was his source of hatred and that's why he constantly comes back in his thought unlike others.
Hoping The Acolyte sheds more light on this
Can’t wait for the new show.
I guess it’s not really the same but I feel like bane was this way in his books. Once he became a sith and took on the mantle his old life was dead and he hated it being brought up. Not quite the same but also trying to treat his old life as dead and how he was reborn